Thứ Ba, 1 tháng 11, 2016

Model S Delivery Dates and Sequencing part 18

  • Oct 21, 2015
    abasile
    Non-CPO cars will be the ones most affected, as the warranty that comes with CPO cars is a key selling point. Private party and third party cars need to be discounted accordingly.

    Hopefully around the time the 8-year battery and drive unit warranties start expiring, there will arise independent repair shops capable of fixing them. Or Tesla will get the repair costs down. This will need to happen sooner or later for the Model 3, anyway.
    �
  • Oct 22, 2015
    jtpassat
    to add to what everyone else is saying - this isn't a "normal" car like a Honda or Toyota. It's a luxury car with tons of bells and whistles which are more than likely to break like other high end luxury cars. the 4 year/50k warranty should help you sleep at night but if not then maybe this isn't the car for you.

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  • Oct 22, 2015
    MorrisonHiker
    Is this the first 70D: 084154? If not, it's one of the first...and getting closer to what I'm potentially looking for.
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  • Oct 23, 2015
    navindra
    Right. I'm going with the new Volt. You may laugh but now that it looks like a Civic and has enough range to cover my daily commute 2.5 times and is ridiculously cheap with deals and incentives, it's turning into a quasi Tesla killer... At least until Model III.
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  • Oct 23, 2015
    Drucifer
    Volt is a great car and a great choice. I saved enough on my Volt lease and fuel to buy my Model S*

    *ok, not really, but it was fun to say.
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  • Oct 23, 2015
    MorrisonHiker
    That didn't last long! Gone already.
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  • Oct 29, 2015
    2krazykats
    This was by far the longest thread I've ever read on any forum! I started reading it a week ago and just finished today and at the end, I was a little surprised the last post was on the 23rd, six days ago! It seemed like this thread was one that was destined to live on forever with so many people rapturously watching the Tesla CPO site and Hank's ev-cpo.com site (me included) and posting about what they found and the many speculations on where CPO prices would go. I just wanted to say how much I enjoyed reading the thread; it was like a book I had to reluctantly put down every so often and get work done or curl up at night before bed. And when it came to an end, I couldn't believe it.

    it was highly entertaining with so many people's insightful comments and celebrations of those who joined the Tesla family. I learned a lot, too, to help me on my journey to Tesla ownership someday (hopefully in the next 4 months or so, waiting to see if any end of year deals will be forthcoming). Thanks to those who participated and I hope this thread doesn't ever end because that means the CPO program is still around!
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  • Oct 29, 2015
    ahurst
    Let's keep it alive
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  • Oct 29, 2015
    Cyclone
    I think CPO "stock" hasn't refilled as expected since X deliveries aren't happening as quickly as some would hope, so it has tempered the activity here. I'm sure there will be an uptick at some point.
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  • Oct 29, 2015
    Dilbagh
    I would expect the end of the referral program might trigger more CPO activity and possibly increase in prices.
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  • Oct 30, 2015
    2krazykats
    I did wonder about the drop in Tesla inventory as displayed on ev-cpo.com. I seem to remember seeing over 300 cars at one point on there maybe a month ago and now it barely brushes the 200 mark on occasion. Is inventory really that low or is Tesla throttling the amount of cars available?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Ugh... I've been struggling with whether to get a new 70D before the incentive goes away today or hedge my bets and wait a couple of months. Sigh... My inactivity might decide for me as the incentive clock ticks down.
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  • Oct 30, 2015
    bigbear
    I don't think so, a used model s will have to compete with a new model 3 plus with a possible refresh of the s, I see prices coming down more. At least, I hope so.
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  • Oct 30, 2015
    hashraf
    Model 3 deliveries won't start until 2017....a cpo model s with 4 year warranty will still be far superior car to a new model 3. model will have limited range and power. Its like comparing a new BMW 1 series with a CPO BMW 5 series (but full 4 year warranty). Totally different buyer segment.
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  • Oct 30, 2015
    Cyclone
    I think it's a bit of both. By Tesla artificially limiting how many CPOs we can see (vs. the back end system the sales team can see), we have no insight into how many or few Teslas are being turned in. It is possible there has been a slowdown in trade-ins while it's just as possible there has been an uptick. Either way, at this time, Tesla isn't intent on pushing through the inventory of CPOs. It's still happening, and somewhat steadily moving, which may be exactly what they want.
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  • Oct 30, 2015
    taurusking
    So in other words they are controlling the price they set for CPO...

    Are they considering offering extended warranty for CPO's yet? Any update on that?
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  • Oct 30, 2015
    Cyclone
    Last I checked, still a no-go on the extended warranty and last week I asked again about my service records. I was told sure and got a copy of only the records since I bought the car, not any history on the car :(
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  • Oct 30, 2015
    2krazykats
    Yes, these two "issues" are what have prevented me from putting deposits on a CPO so far but I also do know from reading this forum that many people have been super happy about their CPO purchase without asking for either. Speaking of, how goes it for your saga with some of the issues you encountered Cyclone? Hope Teslas supposed impeccable service has righted the wrongs for you.
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  • Oct 30, 2015
    Cyclone
    All of my concerns have been addressed. Tesla and I disagreed on one thing, but it has been addressed at this point and I'm just moving on. My car has been amazing and my local service center is still fantastic. They've had to tweak a few things on my car and it has been continued to be a stellar experience to work with them.
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  • Oct 30, 2015
    dhanson865
    I disagree.

    I 2018 Model 3 will have newer tech. Elon says 5% or more improvement per year in battery tech. It'll weigh 20% less so a smaller battery will take it just as far and accelerate faster for the same motor power / torque.

    I think you'll find for those reasons a 2018 Model 3 will trounce a 2015 model S in most stats. Enough so that quite a few Model S owners will trade in creating a greater supply pushing down Model S prices (at least the older Model S years).

    A 2106 or 2017 Model S might compare better to a 2018 Model 3 but it still won't be a clean sweep. The smaller size/weight of the 3 will be a plus for many buyers (parking space/garage size, inner city driving, European old cities).

    I'll agree it is a different market segment but I think some of the advantages of the Model 3 will pull people away from the Model S even if the price tag is lower.
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  • Oct 30, 2015
    Cyclone
    None of this is new. Compare a slightly used Mercedes S-class to a new C-class, or a used BMW 7-Series to a new 3-Series.
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  • Oct 30, 2015
    dhanson865
    None of what is new?

    Since when do those cars have the tech a Tesla has?
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  • Oct 30, 2015
    clarkbariowa
    New CPO - might be unlisted still.

    I�ve got a very clean, 2014 60kWh Model S, White, Panoramic Roof, 19� wheels, Textile Seats, Piano Black D�cor, AutoPilot, Tech Package, Ultra HiFi Sound.

    12100 miles. Fully Certified and Priced at $58500!

    Brent Seavey | Pre-Owned Sales Advisor, Midwest
    1200 Old Skokie Valley Rd | Highland Park, IL 60035
    p 847-579-0028 | m 630-849-4233 | [email�protected]
    �
  • Oct 30, 2015
    bigbear
    I wonder if they have any cpo's that are just clean, not very clean.

    When this does hit the cpo site, will it be more?
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  • Oct 30, 2015
    hashraf
    If what you are telling me turns out to be true, all ICE manufacturers are hosed...atleast cars which are in 30K to 70K range will stop selling and everyone will want to buy tesla 3. Since a $35K Tesla will perform as well as a 60-65K ICE car.
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  • Oct 30, 2015
    2krazykats
    Glad to hear you've resolved the issues to some level of satisfaction. It does make me feel better that Tesla did what they could to resolve issues for you. Enjoy the ride!

    - - - Updated - - -

    @clarkbariowa, does Brent work with people outside of Iowa as well?
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  • Oct 30, 2015
    Cyclone
    The argument over the used "top of the line" model of a make vs. new "cheaper" mode of the same make. The tech the car doesn't matter as it there different in tech between the MB S and C or BMW 7 and 3 is likely similar to the different in tech between the Tesla S and 3.
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  • Oct 30, 2015
    SmartElectric
    Maybe, maybe not. For us, size matters. A smaller car wouldn't appeal, we already have a Smart ED for zipping around town, the Tesla is our road trip car, and for that use, bigger is better.
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  • Oct 31, 2015
    taurusking
    I agree size does matter...but would you prefer to drive non auto pilot Model S with 85kWh battery or 100kWh (possibly) battery high end Model 3 with all updated features and autopilot ?

    I agree with dhanson865....
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  • Nov 1, 2015
    Cowby
    Some freebie analysis, take it for what u will....Me thinks u r fantasizing a bit if u think the model 3 will ever have a higher battery capacity than the MS will (much less the same size)....maybe they will let it catch up and be like a 60kWh size, but no way till at least 3-5 yrs after production...y u say? 1) Different market segment. 2) Because it would canabalize MS sales. 3) Pissing off current MS owners not a good idea, many of whom will likely be the first to buy the model 3 as their second car........And by that time, tesla will have figured out how to make it advantageous to do battery swapping for the current MS owners....so we'd likely get the benefit of the future 100 (or higher) battery capacities first given Gigafactory coming online in a few years...or so that's my guess...lol...ok bye now.
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  • Nov 1, 2015
    dhanson865
    Cowby I think you are right that taursking misspoke about a 100 kwh battery in the Model 3, see below for my expected sizes.

    1. a new Model S will always have the same or higher capacity battery as the top option than a model 3
    2. a used Model S can pay some outrageous price to upgrade the battery pack to the new version no matter what year it is
    3. if the upgrade price isn't a preferred option someone will always have the option of trading up to a newer Model S instead of upgrading the older Model S. This will have a cost also.

    But ignoring upgrades of existing cars you have the situation where (Model S options by year - a running history - Tesla Motors Club - Enthusiasts & Owners Forum)

    2012 -2015 (pre April 2105) Model S only had 60 kwh and 85 kwh options
    April 2015 to current adds 70 kwh and 90 kwh for Model S (90 kwh confirmed for Model X, unknown when a lower capacity will be added)

    now lets extrapolate a little

    Say in 2016 we gain a 75 kwh for Model X and Model S and a 95 kwh for both as well.
    Say in 2017 Model S/X have a 80 kwh and 100 kwh
    Say in 2018 Model S/X have a 85 kwh and 105 kwh

    If the Model 3 has a 80% size and gets better efficiency from it then it gets similar range from an 80% sized battery. (you can argue that point in 300+ Mile Model 3?)

    So say the 2018 Model 3 has a 85 kwh battery pack that gives it the same range as a Model S at 105 kwh and there is also a Model 3 with a 70 kwh battery pack that gives it similar range to a Model S with a 85 kWh battery pack.

    You end up with CPO and used cars in buckets chronologically of

    Model S60 pre AP (2012 to early 2014)
    Model S85 pre AP (2012 to early 2014)

    Model S60 with AP (late 2014)
    Model S85 with AP (late 2014)

    Model S70 (early 2015)
    Model S90 (mid 2015)

    Model S75 (2016)
    Model S95 (2016)

    Model S80 (2017)
    Model S100 (2017)

    Model 3 - 65 (range similar to a S80) - 2018 version
    Model 3 - 80 (range similar to a S100) - 2018 version

    Model S85 (2018 version)
    Model S105 (2018)


    I'll argue that much of the cost savings for Model 3 are in economies of scale and aren't just decontenting. A fully loaded Model 3 will be competitive to a comparably loaded Model S enough so that they'll be demand limited as usual.

    I'm expecting the Model S of the second half of 2017 to have a equal pack in terms of range as a 2018 Model 3. I'm assuming the packs aren't interchangeable between S/X and 3 but are interchangeable between S and X.

    So in 2018 I'm saying a new Model 3 will be a better car than a 2015 model S just because the motors/drive train components/fuses/inverters/charger/battery pack improvements will be significant and I don't think they'll decontent the interior enough to turn away people based on luxury.

    I think this practically guaranteed improvement in range and component quality will be different enough from gas car improvements to make the S vs 3 comparison similar in 2018 vs 2018 but very different in comparing 2018 Model 3 to 2015 Model S.

    And wrapping back around to CPO pricing I'd argue this guaranteed improvement will be an issue moreso for Model S to Model S over the years than for gas car 2012 vs gas car 2015 vs gas car 2018.
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  • Nov 1, 2015
    bigbear
    Quite the breakdown, thank you. I'm debating a new 3 vs a used s and your breakdown makes it seem to me that a new 3 is the way to go except in terms of size which matters to me because I have a family of 5.
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  • Nov 1, 2015
    Zybane
    You have to understand that though for $35-40K that the Model 3 is "suppose" to cost (laugh), you will not have a lot of Model S features. I highly doubt it would have the 17" screen. Or look anywhere near as good as the Model S or as fast. I expect something more along the lines of the Chevy Volt in size and shape. Just look how frumpy the Model X looks compared to the S, it will be interesting to see what the 3 look's like.
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  • Nov 1, 2015
    dhanson865
    You know the Roadster cost more than the Model S right? You know the Roadster has less features than the Model S right?

    The Secret Tesla Motors Master Plan (just between you and me) | Tesla Motors

    shhhh don't tell anyone!

    Seriously. Take a look at the battery upgrade for roadster 3.0. They are getting a battery pack hand assembled for similar pricing as a Model S pack upgrade (Tesla doing right by early adopters and selling at cost or at a loss?). The Model S pack is made with assembly line robots and done in medium size batches. Model 3 will be done with assembly line robots in larger batches. Economies of scale have a big effect on price of a product.

    80% less material in the car * 10 times as many cars per year * a new battery plant that is reducing the cost of batteries to 70% of current costs per kWh = a serious cost reduction without any loss of features.

    They may choose to offer different features between S and 3 for artificial segmentation purposes to justify the price premium on the S but I don't think you need to compare the 3 to a Chevy Volt in any way.

    And the $35K version is to compete with the current S70 (rear motor only). I'm sure there will be a much higher cost if you put all the options on and have a Model 3 in the style of a P90D.
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  • Nov 1, 2015
    Cyclone
    And similar to configuring the S, $35k will be the start price for textile seats, no air suspension, solid roof, standard wheels, no spoiler, no power liftgate, etc. The way I would want a 3, I wouldn't be surprised if it would run me $50k. But we shall see.
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  • Nov 1, 2015
    dhanson865
    Personally I'm good with that.

    Give me the smallest wheels possible so I can buy mainstream LRR tires.

    I'll pay extra if not included for

    Supercharging (likely included)
    Autopilot
    Blue paint

    and I'll consider

    subzero package (assuming it's like $750)
    dual motors (depending on range and cost differences)
    aero wheels (assuming I can get them on the lowest wheel size at a reasonable cost). I honestly don't care exactly what the aero wheels look like, so long as they are more closed than open I'd run them for the range difference and because I live in a humid area and don't want to show off rusty calipers.

    I'm hoping Supercharging and Autopilot are rolled into the $35,000 by 2018 but I'm realistic that those are marketable items and they'll likely monetize them as optional on the base trim.
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  • Nov 1, 2015
    Cyclone
    Dhanson865 and I are on the same. Which is why I'm surprised at some people gawking at $35k. A base model 70 kWh S can be had for $70k, but few want base options. But is there for those who want it. And for me, I wanted the larger size, but I had already planned on a roughly $50k 3 before I bought my S. All will be right with the word once deliveries start! :)
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  • Nov 1, 2015
    Zybane
    Well obviously economies of scale make a large difference, but $35K isn't a lot of money. Heck, today a small 80 mile range city car i3 cost $50K. If they do make a $35K Model 3, I bet it would be so stripped down/low range that hardly anyone would want it. Expect most models to sell for $50K+ IMO. Not even taking into consideration inflation alone by the time the 3 launches could be 6+%. Also, Tesla is going to have to make a profit sometime in the companies future..
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  • Nov 2, 2015
    MsElectric
    I find it really odd to see CPO P85Ds for sale without the Tech Package. It seems the Tech Package is a basic prerequisite for the Model S though it is certainly fine without it. I'm just having a hard time imagining many people being open to buying a $100K used car without all the niceties that come with the Tech Package. There are currently 3 P85Ds for sale without the Tech Package...

    http://www.teslamotors.com/models/preowned/088548

    Are these cars lacking the Tech Package or is it that they were made after the Tech Package was discontinued and a bunch of some of the formerly Tech Package options became standard equipment. I wonder if there is an easy way to tell from a car listing if a car is lacking the Tech Package or the car was built after most of the Tech Package options became standard.

    The following is what is now standard and a bunch of these options used to come with the Tech Package at extra cost.

    Free long distance travel on the Supercharger network
    Maps and navigation with real time traffic updates
    8 year, infinite mile battery and drive unit warranty
    Automatic keyless entry
    Daytime running lights
    GPS enabled Homelink
    Parking sensors
    Blind spot warning
    Lane departure warning
    Power-folding and heated side mirrors
    Automatic emergency braking
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  • Nov 2, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    A lot of new cars being added today.
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  • Nov 2, 2015
    FlatSix911
    So, in short, the master plan is:

    1. Build sports car
    2. Use that money to build an affordable car
    3. Use that money to build an even more affordable car
    4. While doing above, also provide zero emission electric power generation options

    Don't tell anyone.
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  • Nov 3, 2015
    tentonine
    From the Q3 earnings letter: CPOs are selling well with 17% reduction in inventory due to more sales than trade-ins.
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  • Nov 4, 2015
    DCAC
    Yes, it also said $33M in CPO sales for Q3. So ~$365,000/day. Maybe five or six CPO cars sold per day and four or five traded in on average? So the supply is limited, prices remain stable. Q3 new car sales were ~129/day. Q4 should be ~189/day.

    Here's to hoping the CPO inventory grows and prices decline in Q4 so I can get on the road in an old Model S!
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  • Nov 4, 2015
    2krazykats
    Yep, you, me and the thousands of other people waiting for a price drop that's not forthcoming due to over demand and under supply. :rolleyes:
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  • Nov 5, 2015
    hashraf
    I agree.
    The CPO prices may fall a bit as the year changes i.e. a 2013 P85+ today might be around 75K but come 2016, a 2013 car may appear ~3 years old instead of ~2 year old and that may have an impact. I understand Tesla goes by VIN numbers, etc. but naturally as time passes by the same car today will be cheaper to purchase 6 months from now. You pay less but you get an older vehicle which may or may not matter since you still get the full 4 yr bumper to bumper warranty.
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  • Nov 5, 2015
    freeewilly
    Many of us including myself thought Model X release on Sep 29th will have a major impact on CPO cars, there was no impact. I know we may see some impact when Tesla start delivering Model X is higher volume, I know when 2016 comes, we will see additional depreciation on older MS.

    I'm so glad I didn't wait, I have been enjoying my car since August, the joy of driving it everyday.

    My point is the longer you wait, the older MS become less attractive. The AP is like a standard equipment now, MS might have a refresh next year, next gen AP is coming, battery is getting bigger. By the time the car you want today drop to the price you hope to pay, you might not want that car anymore, and the newer model is still as expensive as today.
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  • Nov 5, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    1-- I'd bet dollars to donuts there is no "refresh" or "facelift" for Model S in 2016 (while yes, there will be incremental improvements).
    2-- "Next Gen AP" is just rumors and more speculation at this point
    3-- Same with "bigger battery." The battery is unlikely to get bigger until the GF is online and in full production.

    None of these things are coming "soon" (IMHO), but they are a huge source of wild speculation on TMC. So, as always, YMMV and Use at your Own Risk.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Some decent price drops tonight in Illinois:

    ==========> Price change Location: US;Illinois;7 VIN: P56393: from $78,000 to $75,000 Price Change: -3,000 -- old prices: $78,000; $83,400;
    ==========> Price change Location: US;Illinois;7 VIN: P30163: from $90,600 to $84,000 Price Change: -6,600 -- old prices: $90,600; 89,900
    ==========> Price change Location: US;Illinois;7 VIN: P42072: from $95,500 to $91,800 Price Change: -3,700 -- old prices: $95,500; $98,700; $102,700;
    ==========> Price change Location: US;Illinois;7 VIN: P30207: from $89,400 to $86,400 Price Change: -3,000 -- old prices: $89,400; $90,900; $81,300; $93,100;$96,300;


    And one in Canada:

    ==========> Price change Location: CA;Ontario;13 VIN: P49929: from $92,000 to $89,000 Price Change: -3,000 -- old prices: $92,000; $102,500; 101,520
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  • Nov 6, 2015
    Cowby
    This +1....I came to this conclusion as well a couple of months ago....unfortunately, my cpo must need alot of "love and tender" cause I'm still waiting on it...lol...hopefully, it'll be awesome when I do get to finally drive it!
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  • Nov 6, 2015
    2krazykats
    "A couple of months ago"?? Wow where is it coming from, Timbuktu? :biggrin: Did they say why it's taken so long?
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  • Nov 6, 2015
    Cyclone
    My CPO was purchased in April, picked up in May, and became regularly available for me to drive in August. So it's totally possible that Cowby has put some serious miles on loaners like I did.
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  • Nov 6, 2015
    FlatSix911
    Wow, a three month wait for a CPO delivery ... I picked up my Inventory car 1 week after placing the order.
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  • Nov 7, 2015
    Cowby
    Sorry about the confusion...meant to say that I came to the conclusion 2 months ago about just committing to a CPO and not waiting for bigger, better, etc...then I purchased ~1 month ago and am still waiting....it's a very special car (hint...F) so I believe them when they said it's getting more than once over looky....me thinks y'all will agree once I get it and post some pics!

    I wish! alas, they stated all loaners were out and in short supply, so i'm left to drive my gas burner till I get it swapped out with the MS....side note, my SC has been nothing but wonderful in putting up with my pestering calls/emails regarding the status of the car...and they said I might get some special swag upon delivery!
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  • Nov 7, 2015
    MorrisonHiker
    Nice! I remember seeing that one listed right before the X event. [emoji4]
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  • Nov 7, 2015
    Cowby
    Ha! you sir would be correct!
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  • Nov 7, 2015
    AMPd
    you bought a Founders car?
    Nice!
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  • Nov 8, 2015
    Cowby
    Yes, I do believe the first ever to be cpo'd?
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  • Nov 8, 2015
    Cattledog

    We bought one from JB but it was in 2013, pre-CPO.
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  • Nov 8, 2015
    PokerBroker
    Once the Model X starts full production we will see a glut of CPO Model S... We'll have tons to choose from.
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  • Nov 8, 2015
    Cowby
    How ya liking it? Any major problems I should look out for in a car as young as ours?
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  • Nov 8, 2015
    Beryl
    I sure hope so. Depending on what is actually delivered, I may cancel my X reservation in lieu of a 2014 (or newer) Model S.
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  • Nov 8, 2015
    Drucifer
    I wouldn't hold my breath. First, I think Tesla has stabilized the pricing and availability of CPO cars. Second, a lot of Model X buyers will be holding on to their Model S. I know when I get my wife a Model X in 2 years (likely) my Model S isn't leaving.
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  • Nov 9, 2015
    Cowby
    +1...Q3 earnings call confirms our thoughts on the cpo program and where it's heading...let those who wish to wait......"Wait for it...".....pfft....:tongue:
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  • Nov 9, 2015
    DCAC
    It may be impossible to hold your breath until December (or January), but I think PokerBroker is right. CPO cars are mostly trade-ins, presumably on new Teslas, right? The increased production in Q4 (from MX and autopilot-crazed / referral-incentivized MS buyers) should result in a larger CPO inventory. After ~900 CPO sales, the average price is sub $70k. Currently there are 222 cars listed and only 13 of those under $70k. So I would expect our CPO choices will be largely improved within a couple months.
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  • Nov 9, 2015
    spentan
    85 kWh Model S P69472 | Tesla Motors

    85D just came up.


    85 kWh Model S 2015 9,423miles P69472
    $75,000 Located in New York?

    • All-Wheel Drive Dual Motor
    • Silver Metallic Paint
    • All Glass Panoramic Roof
    • 19" Wheels
    • Black Leather Seats
    • Glossy Obeche Wood D�cor
    • Textile Headliner
    • Standard 2nd row
    • Supercharger Enabled
    • Tech Package with Autopilot
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  • Nov 9, 2015
    DCAC
    Yeah, why is it so reasonably priced? (Compared to the boat load of P85 and P85+ older non-AP cars listed.)
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  • Nov 9, 2015
    DougH
    It's not to off but it could be damaged/repaired.

    No air suspension.
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  • Nov 9, 2015
    Skotty
    $35K starting price is still a lot of money. I just checked over at Ford, and the only model they sell that starts at or over $35K is the Expedition. You can even get a Super Duty truck for under $35K. To reach $35K for a Ford car, you have to pick the most expensive trim model of their most expensive car, the Ford Taurus SHO, to finally break $35K.
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  • Nov 9, 2015
    spentan
    And its gone!
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  • Nov 9, 2015
    abasile
    In California, where we have a $2500 state rebate on top of the $7500 federal income tax credit, a used 85D for $75K is about equivalent, price-wise, to paying $85K for a new one. And $85K happens to be the new price without options. This doesn't seem like a bargain to me. It also points out that the CPO P85 and P85+ cars tend to be priced high, still.

    Also, Tesla's website now seems to almost hide their CPO program. At this time, I think they'd rather steer people toward purchasing new.

    One positive change, though, is that Tesla now allows its CPO cars from all US locations to be displayed in the same search results. Perhaps they took a hint from EV-CPO.com. :smile:
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  • Nov 9, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    Likely -- but it only displays 100 at a time.

    Well, since it's no longer happening I can tell the tale... back in July the head of the Tesla CPO program contacted me to talk about the Consolidator and they expressed an interest in having me work with their team to enhance their Preowned site to add many of the same advanced features on EV-CPO.

    But after waiting a couple of months, they decided to do it themselves. :(
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  • Nov 9, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    Nope. The people I spoke with were welcoming and friendly.

    edit: Interesting, both Kevin and the person who contacted me have very similar titles w/r/t the CPO program.
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  • Nov 9, 2015
    Beryl
    Now planning to go down the CPO or demo route instead of the MX until sometime after 2020 when fully autonomous (or nearly autonomous) vehicles surface. (That should save me $20K-$25K and get me in a Tesla sooner.)

    The folks at Tesla advised me to get a vehicle manufactured after September 2014 to maximize the AP technology.
    �
  • Nov 9, 2015
    DougH
    There's a loaded black on black performance plus in Huston for $95K
    �
  • Nov 10, 2015
    MorrisonHiker
    70D in Colorado for $70,500. It's located in Colorado but priced better for non-Colorado buyers. Colorado buyers could buy new and get both the $7500 federal tax credit and $6000 tax credit and only pay a little more. If it was an 85 and had a panoramic roof, I would've probably bought it.
    85D in Canada for $102,400 CDN. That works out to about $77,200 US...and not as hard to import back to US from Canada (vs. the other way around). After the Colorado $6000 tax credit, that would be a nice $71,200, effectively. Wrong color for me but otherwise pretty nice!
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  • Nov 10, 2015
    2krazykats
    And 70D is gone just in minutes! I would've jumped on it but was told it had been registered in CO so no $6000 credit.
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  • Nov 10, 2015
    DougH
    uggggg I want a P85D!
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  • Nov 10, 2015
    FlatSix911
    I was looking for 70D/85D CPO for a long time when my Tesla advisor suggested an Inventory model.
    Problem solved... we searched the inventory and found a loaded 70D with a significant discount.
    �
  • Nov 10, 2015
    hashraf
    Am in similar situation, I relied on this forum for the inventory car strategy rather than my OA who wasn't too helpful in finding me what I needed. I had to call stores in other cities to get listings outside my region and found OAs at other locations much more helpful in my search. Ended up finding one with $9300 discount on car with under 4k miles plus $2K through OH referral. My car has cyclones which i didnt need so thats 2500 that i wouldnt have paid if i custom ordered but discount was too high to pass.
    Picking my car this week finally as it took time to ship, etc. Also anyone buying cars from Tesla, carefully check all the numbers in your MVPA. I was being overcharged twice. Once the addition was incorrect (simple addition was wrong....MVPA is manually done by someone at corporate) and after I had them fix that they were still charging taxes on higher incorrect number.
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  • Nov 11, 2015
    2krazykats
    @hasraf, can you define what MVPA is?
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  • Nov 11, 2015
    MsElectric
  • Nov 11, 2015
    2krazykats
  • Nov 12, 2015
    UThomas
    Anybody have any experience ordering on from Canada and having shipped to the States?
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  • Nov 12, 2015
    mrounds
  • Nov 12, 2015
    No2DinosaurFuel
    It is a 2012 and according to musk those are more prone to have issues.
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  • Nov 12, 2015
    DougH
    First I was told you could not do it, then I was told you can. You would want to talk to your local service center manager before you pull the trigger.
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  • Nov 12, 2015
    Cyclone
    Finally one that is cheaper than mine was. More miles and a 2012, but premium sound + 21" wheels. Though personally I dislike black on the S.
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  • Nov 12, 2015
    DrGuest
    Usually a Signature means it's allowed to have a Special Signature Ruby Red Color, curious that this is a Black "Signature."
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  • Nov 12, 2015
    bigbear
    If this had the black headliner, I'd buy now. I'd also buy now, if I had the money.
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  • Nov 12, 2015
    DougH
    I't's called Signature Red. They also made Sig cars in black and white only. It looks nothing like a ruby red.
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  • Nov 12, 2015
    bigbear
    Does it have glitter or what
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  • Nov 12, 2015
    DougH
    No that's called "pearl"
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  • Nov 12, 2015
    jcjj
    It is strange that the color for the Sig S00209 is not explicitly listed.
    EV-CPO Consolidator does not list a color either and the Tesla CPO website for this car looks like someone did a poor photoshop of adding black color on all the exterior views.
    �
  • Nov 12, 2015
    Cyclone
    You have to love that the stock photos Tesla is using has v6 and not v7 installed.
    �
  • Nov 13, 2015
    jlk
    Lots of inventory cars added today! P90DL, 90, 90D, 85D, 70D among them.
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  • Nov 13, 2015
    DougH
    Holy Inventory dump Batman!
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  • Nov 13, 2015
    FlatSix911
    Yes, and the 70D is a great value with autopilot enabled. When mine was delivered it was listed with 50 miles and actually had 5! :cool:
    ? Inventory car prices are before EV incentives (ex. Federal $7,500 tax credit). Great list Hank.

    CPO.PNG
    �
  • Nov 13, 2015
    DougH
    Anyone know what BT means? and why is Hank's site not listing AP?
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  • Nov 13, 2015
    Cyclone
    Presumably a coding Hank hasn't tweaked to decipher as "Base Trim" 90 vs. P90.
    �
  • Nov 13, 2015
    MorrisonHiker
    Battery

    http://options.teslastuff.net

    Looks like most of the inventory models have the rear facing seats...which I don't need. Still nice to see so many new ones listed!
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  • Nov 14, 2015
    ahurst
    wow
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  • Nov 14, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    Wow what?
    �
  • Nov 14, 2015
    ahurst
    We finally are seeing some 85D's and 70D's
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  • Nov 14, 2015
    2krazykats
    I'm very surprised these are not moving like hot cakes. Is it because it's the weekend or are the prices still too high?
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  • Nov 14, 2015
    MsElectric
    I didn't particular see any good deals at least for the P85Ds that were listed.

    Without the 21" Wheels you can get a completely loaded P85D without the rear facing seats for the low $120Ks. So a new one would cost it the low $110Ks after the rebates and you get to specify exactly the options you want along with selecting the interior and exterior colors you want. You also then get the benefit of driving home a completely new car that has not been insanely abused with likely thousands of launches and rough driving.

    The inventory and CPO P85Ds they are offering cost just about the same as a new car and i think most potential buyers will find it makes more sense to just buy new and this might be the reason why they are not selling like hot cakes. We are looking to buy an inventory or CPO P85D and none of the current CPO and inventory vehicles on the Tesla Web site make any sense whatsoever to us due to the high pricing.

    I will add however that there are better deals to be had by contacting your favorite Tesla store as they have access to a larger inventory that is actually better priced. Basically these prices that are currently online are no big deal.
    �
  • Nov 14, 2015
    2krazykats
    Unfortunately I've not found this to be true with what my OA has found. A $1k off here or there but nothing that seems like they want to move inventory by year end. Maybe in a couple of weeks?
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  • Nov 14, 2015
    DougH
    I agree. Once a week I get with my sales person and we go over every car from Oregon to Chicago, we have been doing this for 3 months. I have not found one car that was a good deal. Tesla's are so overpriced and the older ones are not worth buying. When P85D's get down to the $90K range then I will buy.
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  • Nov 15, 2015
    MsElectric
    I agree with pretty much most of what you've said as we also are not interested in buying an older pre-Autopilot Model S. However the good deals to be had are with some of the older Model S vehicles. Especially the 2013 and 2014 P85 vehicles make for some great deals and I have seen some offered for sale outside of the Tesla Web site at extremely attractive prices.

    We too are looking for a P85D and I agree that there are really nothing we have found that is worth buying. In fact with just about every P85D available for sale as CPO or and Inventory vehicle it seemed much better to buy one new as we are extremely picky about the exterior color, leather color, and wanting Obeche wood. Also we have zero interest in 21" wheels so any car offered for sale needs to be $4,500 less just to break even with a new car with the 19" wheels we want.

    We are also in the same boat as you in waiting until the prices are in the $85-90K range for a P85D before buying and I doubt we are alone. I have a very good feeling they will be in the $85K range next year and with two other cars in the household we are waiting until the pricing makes sense. This seems like a not so great time to buy a P85D under the current pricing and I think anyone looking to buy a used P85D for around $110-$120K should seriously consider buying a new car for almost the same price, especially since the drivetrains have apparently been improved over the last few months.
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  • Nov 15, 2015
    DougH
    Somewhat surprising that only two cars have sold since Friday.
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  • Nov 15, 2015
    DCAC
    Not too surprising. There are still zero cars under $60k. Some fantastic cars added on Friday, but agree with you and MsElectric that for the discounts, you're basically better off ordering new (with $1k referral credit). I was told November 23rd is the cutoff for ordering new and taking delivery in 2015. Maybe after that date we'll see a price drop? Also expecting to see a surge of sub-$60k CPOs as Q4 deliveries pick up. (Partly driven by pre-AP MS owners upgrading to AP cars.)
    �
  • Nov 15, 2015
    DougH
    Another dump of Inventory cars.
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  • Nov 15, 2015
    DougH
  • Nov 15, 2015
    FlatSix911
    5 cars are currently available at the $60K price point ...

    60K.PNG

    Yes, looks like over 50 Inventory cars hit the list with EV incentives including the Federal $7,500 tax credit available.
    �
  • Nov 15, 2015
    Cyclone
    While I won't say it's impossible, it could be that the ViN was assigned and the owner pushed "delivery" so far out that they didn't produce it until AP was available later in 2014. That said, it also could be a typo (maybe of the VIN?).
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  • Nov 15, 2015
    MsElectric
    Maybe a VIN "gap" due to a cancellation or whatever other issue was filled with a later production batch?

    Or maybe a mistake...

    If indeed it is an AP Unicorn that is a great price for a fully loaded 2014 P84 with Autopilot for $80K.
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  • Nov 15, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    I'm going to guess it's just mis-coded on the TM side as having AP.

    The VIN gap theories don't pass the sniff test. ;)
    �
  • Nov 15, 2015
    DCAC
    Anybody know the differences between TP02 and TP03? (I assume EV-CPO will count TP03 as AP soon.)
    �
  • Nov 15, 2015
    DougH
    It's too large of a VIN gap.
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  • Nov 15, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    I think TP03 is after the Tech package became standard. So after a certain VIN (aroun 86xxx), it's possible to have a non-AP car that includes what the old tech package had. I'll do some updating tomorrow.

    yeah, that's what I'm saying.
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  • Nov 15, 2015
    FlatSix911
    TP02 = Tech Package with Autopilot US options list from http://options.teslastuff.net/


    �
  • Nov 16, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    Yeah, we know that already.. All the options are listed on ev-cpo.com... The question was: what is TP03 which is a new option code obviously related to TP/AP. See my post above.

    Also, that option list is very outdated and is missing many added options over the last year. I'm keeping the list on ev-cpo.com as current as possible.
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  • Nov 16, 2015
    DougH
    Come on tesla release some cheaper p85d!
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