Sep 12, 2013
cinergi @Amped, @gg, @mep, @mknox -- check this out: My 12,500 service - Page 5
Sounds like the same issue. I know of others with the same issue (personally rode in their car) and the DU was replaced and all is well again. I suggest a service visit.�
Sep 12, 2013
mep Thanks cinergi. That is reassuring. At the next visit to the service center I will ask them to look into this issue.�
Sep 12, 2013
Duckjybe And the other thing that bugs me a little (and I now notice it on other makes of cars as well) is that the new vents are very noticeable as a reflection in the windshield on sunny days. The original clean grill's reflection is not as noticeable. However, I was having fogging issues last winter and the new vent corrected that. Its too bad they couldn't have made the original grill work but I do like a fog free windshield.
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Uh Oh, I just took mine in for a humming noise happening at about 103 km/h (about 65 mph) as well, plus a hatch alignment, creak in the right dash, and steering click (again). Apparently its been at the body shop all week and they haven't looked at the other things yet. Its a good thing they dropped off a P85+ loaner (that has no hum whatsoever and it corners like a dream!). Did anybody else get a loaner with 3G access because this one doesn't? I am missing slacker and showing off the big nav screen.�
Sep 13, 2013
efusco I've noticed that too, needs to be a more matte finish so they're not as reflective. Already toying with various ideas on how to dull them down a bit to reduce that reflection. Glad my windows won't fog as badly but it's unfortunate there wasn't a more elegant solution.�
Sep 13, 2013
ddruz Do polarized sunglasses help with the reflection of the vents? They have done so on my prior cars that had a strong reflection of the dash in the windshield.�
Sep 13, 2013
wycolo > Repeating "computers make our lives easier" over and over isn't nearly as satisfying as it should be.
Maybe I should try more cursing. [Newscutter]
_ should get a MAC _
[scurries back into woodwork]
--�
Sep 17, 2013
EKnight47 Picked up my Model S last Thursday. Absolutely love it. However, I got in the car this morning, pressed the brake and the seat belt chime almost blew the doors off it was so loud and distorted (exaggerated a bit). Not only that, slacker was crackling like crazy and the parking sensor chime, phone ring and directionals are also all very loud and distorted. FM is totally fine and speakers sound great. Very strange. I called service center and they're looking into it, but curious if this has happened to anyone else. Thx�
Sep 19, 2013
EKnight47 FYI - dropped into my service center, they updated my car to the latest version (.05?) and that did the trick. All set. They had never seen this issue before though.�
Sep 19, 2013
AmpedRealtor All of my issues have been resolved and to my complete satisfaction. Primacy tires are on, vehicle has been aligned, all suspension bolts have been checked and no issues found (factory did great), new backup camera was installed and appears better than the first, Alcantara is perfect, front nose/lip replaced, and the most important of all... CAR HAS NO INVERTER OR MOTOR NOISE!
I have received top notch service from all the folks at Tesla's Phoenix service center. My special thanks go to Nicholas, the service manager, who took personal charge of my vehicle and saw it through all the various stages. Tim Boado, my service advisor, kept me apprised of the vehicle on a daily basis either by phone or via email. I have never had such a pleasurable service experience in my life, ever, with any other vehicle manufacturer. Tesla's service showed exemplary attention to detail and a great concern for making sure the vehicle was as close to perfect as possible. One additional item was performed, something having to do with the rear driver side window regulator.
The car is current on all service bulletins and I could not have asked for a better experience. I was so happy, in fact, that I brought the guys and gals a dozen donuts from a local shop near my house that makes fresh, fluffy and yummy delights!
MY TESLA GRIN IS BACK!
This is how happy I am... I received two bits of bad news on a couple of my real estate transactions today and I couldn't have cared less! Anything could happen to me today and I would still be smiling, happy and in a state of utter bliss. I've been smiling all day...�
Sep 19, 2013
bareyb Glad to hear it all worked out AR. Makes me feel good every time I read a story like this.
�
Sep 20, 2013
nlc Did you had explanations about this curious problem !? Because I don't understand how inverter can do a "humm" noice, getting worse time after time. Maybe it's not really an inverter problem but rather a powertrain/gearbox mechanical problem !?�
Sep 21, 2013
AmpedRealtor I'm not sure what you are referring to. I had a loud, low frequency hum at freeway speeds in excess of 60 MPH. Service center and Tesla engineering, using a recording device, diagnosed the issue as a noisy inverter and replaced it. Car is now silent at the same speeds. Happy camper I am!�
Sep 21, 2013
kendallpb I went in for the rear passenger window falling down (when not in use) and not going back up. I'd read about this before, so I wasn't concerned. But wow, headache-inducing buffeting/resonance over 30 MPH until I lowered the opposite window, though; I wasn't expecting that (and haven't experienced the like in any other car). Weird. Anyway, I was happy Tesla took it seriously and wanted me in that day, if I could make it (I could).
They took care of 6-7 other service bulletins while I was there, including a steering wheel click, and mentioned that and the 12-volt to me early on while I was waiting. I'd just noticed the steering click only this week, when turning sharply; I hadn't thought to mention it, but they asked me if I'd noticed it, LOL. I was like "oh yeah!"
Also, they proactively replaced my 12-volt battery. I was never contacted about this, but I know they contacted others. Are they just replacing everyone's, or had they just not gotten around to contacting me, I wonder? The new battery's a different type (I'm not a car guy; slow gin fizz depth charge or something, I think they said).
The other service items were Front Bumper carrier Bolt Replacement, Rear Window Regulator Reinforcement Clip (plus fixing the broken regulator, it seems), C-Pillar Brightwork Creak, A-Pillar Wind Noise, and Floor Mat Update (yay, updated mats and the new rear mats). Will I notice an even quieter ride from the pillar fixes, or are these just things that could become problems?
I'd found a random screw on the floor of my car a week ago and put it into the door handle; I guess they found it (and hopefully put it where it belongs!), because it's gone now. ;-) Heh.
I mentioned my occasional pano roof creak (very hot weather; goes away after a short drive), but they didn't have time to address that. I don't mind at all, since it's minor, though I was bummed when I first noticed it earlier this year. Anyway, I've read plenty about it, so I know it's a known issue. I said if they could fix it when I bring the car in for regular service/maintenance, that'd be fine. (I want to wait till I've had the car a year, though, and not bring it in months early; I have just over 10,000 miles on it and pre-paid the service.)
They also gave it a much-needed wash, and unlike my old Mazda dealer, I don't believe Tesla used a dirty rag to make swirls. ;-)
Overall, a great service experience in Rockville! Nathan's a champ, as always, and the new folks seem great: Jonathan (new to me, but seems like he's been there a little while) and Andy (Andi? sounded like she was pretty new). Everyone was friendly and seemed to really care about even minor issues. There were a lot of cars there, and more were dropped off while I was there. Unofficially, it sounds like Tesla's sold most or all of the rest of the year's production!
Just to be clear: I consider all of this minor stuff (even including the 12-volt battery replacement, since it was proactive; I know it's not minor if it dies on you, though!). The car's still awesome after almost 8 months!�
Sep 21, 2013
jerry33 It normal in any car with very good aerodynamics. You can either open the window on the other side, or only open the window a short way on one side.�
Sep 21, 2013
JPP FWIW, I was at the San Rafael service center yesterday to get the fog lights installed (...separate story). They went through all applicable SB:
Steering click - only if you notice a noise (so not for me)
Rear window regulator clips
A pillar brightwork foam tape
C pillar brightwork issue
!2V only if you have one of the bad batteries or a warning (not applicable to my vehicle/VIN)
TPMS receiver repositioning- only if you have the problem
Pano roof tune up--interesting that the SC had to actually note that my S did not have a pano roof and thus the fix was not applicable.
No front bolt issue/SB for me.
Rear seat belt issue-I have no complaints, so no fix for me.
YMMV.�
Sep 21, 2013
Bugeater I had the falling window thing happen on my 5540 mile Western US trip in May - June. It happened on day 18 of 21. The trick I quickly found was to use a newsprint type of paper (Grand Canyon south rim map to be precise) and get it a little wet. Then wedge it into the bottom of the window until the window feels solid. Make sure to pull the window up AFTER closing the door or you might crack the window! That would hold it in place for 4 - 8 hours! And yes, we got back on a Friday night / Saturday and they took us in first thing Monday!
Today, my problem is that they just replaced the passenger side rear door handle to fix a random door opening by itself issue. When I pulled the car into my driveway this evening, I noticed that the driver side rear door handle won't extend any more... Oh well, I'll call them tomorrow or maybe e-mail them tonight.
Just noticed JPP's post. Yep, on my "old" S they replaced the 12V battery for me!�
Sep 22, 2013
kendallpb Ah! So it's a sign of quality! :-D Seriously, thanks; I didn't know that.
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Aha, that explains it, then; I must have one of them, since they did replace it. I'd figured a while ago that they'd've contacted me (as they had some others) if mine were in that batch. Well, I guess I'm glad I had the window issue, so the battery got replaced and I didn't develop a problem on the road.�
Sep 22, 2013
woof 12V Battery Low
We went to go out to dinner yesterday. I was about to unplug the UMC and I noticed the Red Ring of Death, then checked the dash and saw "12V battery low" warnings. I pulled the UMC connector out, counted to 10, plugged it back in. The ring went green and the 12V warnings went away. We took the ActiveE out instead.
I e-mailed Tesla after we returned. They called within an hour and said all seemed well now, and the 12V battery was reading 14V (I believe the traction pack was still being charged at the time), but they were going to pull the logs and send them to engineering. They said the car was okay to drive, and today all seems well.
It would be REALLY nice if the Tesla App added a push notification when there is a fault like this while charging. We might not have noticed it wasn't charging and that could have left us in a bind. Also, I presume Tesla get's near-realtime notification of this kind of thing (if not, they should!), and they could've called us to let us know.�
Sep 23, 2013
mknox Here's a new one for me: Popped open the charge port with the UMC's button, ring is white. Plug in cable and ring turns immediately to green, but does not lock in place, blink or start to charge. Dash is still saying "Charge Port Open" "Plug in to Charge" or something like that. I can pull the handle out without pressing the button and the port turns back to white. Repeatable.
I am used to the ring staying white and having to futz with it a bit to get it to lock and start charging, but this immediate to green thing is new...�
Sep 23, 2013
Doug_G I had problems with my UMC not latching into the car, and replacing it resolved the issue.
Tesla came by the other day for some minor service, and when the Ranger arrived he surprised me by saying that he had a lot of work to do. I gave him a quizzical look and he told me that engineering had advised that my 12V battery needed replacement. This is shortly after my car spent several days at the service center!
A couple of days later a friend of mine wasn't so lucky and his car actually died due to the 12V battery. Tesla sent a Ranger to replace it.�
Sep 23, 2013
znino Noticed a new strange sound on the Model S a few days ago. It happens non-stop, even when I shut the car down and close the door. Sound seems to be coming from in front of driver position somewhere in the front and it sounds like a fast rhythmic banging (almost like if someone was in there with a hammer banging on metal). It is not super loud but loud enough that I noticed it. It did not make this noise before. It is so obvious I would have noticed it. Seems to be about 7 bangings per second frequency. I have attached a video (which is really to hear the sound) of what I am hearing. This does not seem to be from the HVAC (OFF) and even if the car has been locked for 30 min, I go and listen from the outside and can hear the banging noise..... Anyone else noticed this?
�
Sep 23, 2013
Lloyd Gremlins!�
Sep 23, 2013
Zapped Main battery compressor/cool fan.
I could really hear a lot of compressor / fan sounds when supercharging, coming from the driver's side front wheel well area.�
Sep 23, 2013
znino If it's this fan then why would I have never heard it before. It's so noticeable it is impossible I never heard it. It seems to be making this noise non stop�
Sep 23, 2013
Zapped Good question. I'm running version 5.x and all fans stop after I shut off the car. This wasn't the case with version 4.
I'm finding that noises come and go especially fan noises. ... cooling fan behind the screen for example ..
There would be an unwelcome battery draw if it never turns off. Might want to check with TESLA.�
Sep 23, 2013
Bugeater Sounds like you have a squirrel in there somewhere. A big one! Or maybe a really big rattlesnake...�
Sep 24, 2013
mal42north The inverter can be pumping hundreds of amps of current into the motor, and that amount of current generates significant magnetic fields and therefore (Lorentz) forces in adjacent current carrying conductors. If any of those conductors is even slightly free to move then its likely they will vibrate with the changing currents and create a hum. Usual suspects for this are cables interconnecting components or inductors used to step-up or step-down voltage. When you accelerate the frequency of the drive inverter increases in proportion to your speed. If you have a loose conductor, at some speed you will hit the mechanical resonant frequency of that conductor and the noise will get much louder. My MS60 makes a noise around 35mph, for instance, but much less at other speeds. The noise will tend to get worse over time, because the mechanical vibration of the conductor will tend to loosen it up.�
Sep 24, 2013
mknox I'm on my second already, and was starting to suspect the car. I just happened to be driving by the Yorkdale Mall Store today and thought I'd pop in and try their HPWC. It worked like a champ as does my J1772 adapter, so I guess I have another bad UMC.
One thing I did find distressing is how hot the HPWC handle got. I charged at 80 amps for about 2 hours, and when I came out I actually burned my hand a bit on the chrome part of the handle where the button is. I almost couldn't press the release button it was so hot. I pulled it out by holding on to the plastic part which itself was almost unbearably hot. As I wound up the cable, the entire length of the cable was very warm -- I'd call it hot too. I put my hand on the car's charge port and surrounding areas and it wasn't hot at all.
Is it normal for HPWCs to get this hot? I'm wondering if most people don't notice since the car may have finished charging and the connector may have cooled down by the time they come out and disconnect.�
Sep 24, 2013
yobigd20 Do you know if any TSB was applied?
I had mine in for service yesterday in Queens and I had them listen to the sound (very clearly) and they said that this is absolutely normal and that every model S sounds like that when you're punching it. I had a brand new P85 as a loaner and I punched it and sure enough it has the same sound in fact even noticeably louder. According to them there's no issue here with this sound. "Nothing to fix..."�
Sep 24, 2013
Eggplant Are you sure you're not confusing this "loud hum" with the high acceleration "balloon squeal?"
I'm told the squeal is normal. My car does it. I drove a loaner that did it too.�
Sep 24, 2013
nlc Don't know how they inverter is designed, but I designed some inverters and never had any moving parts. No reason they have moving parts too, thus this can only comes from output conductors to motor. But if it's the case I can't understand why this problem had not be seen (eared !) previously during development phase ?�
Sep 24, 2013
yobigd20 This is EXACTLY how it was explained to me at the service center , word for word (are you a Tesla service tech?? lol). Even to the point where he walked me over to one of the cars taken apart and even showed me these interconnecting cables where this sound comes from. So he said this is completely normal behavior. And the point this occurs is around that 330kW power (pedal to the metal). No issue to "fix".�
Sep 24, 2013
yobigd20 (cross posting from http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/9350-The-high-pitched-whine-during-acceleration?p=449492 , sry mods usually I wouldnt do this but I think its important to highlight).
So I quickly opened up my recorded audio file in soundbooth and (for laziness) just made a video recording of it using my camera LOL. I'm sure I could do a higher quality screen cap with original audio, but this is good enough to get my point across.
As you'll see in the video, in the middle of the playback you'll see some horizontal lines in the purplish spectral frequency display. That is the high pitched whine I am talking about, or as I am described as the "balloon leak" sound. I've been told by Tesla that this is a "normal" sound and there is nothing to be fixed....(I tend to disagree, and would think this sound should not occur), so looking for others opinions here in if this is the sound that you guys are talking about too.
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attaching zipped mp3 (higher quality) version of this whine sound that I captured used in the video above.�
Sep 24, 2013
gg_got_a_tesla Yo, Big D! That doesn't sound "normal" at all; that's a pretty bad sounding squealing balloon. I have no such sound at full acceleration in my 60; just a smooth whoosh all the way.�
Sep 24, 2013
bareyb I hope to God that's not "normal". That sounds ridiculous. Does the Balloon sound happen on all models or just the "P"?�
Sep 24, 2013
Zapped Hard acceleration my P makes that sound. No worries.
Heck of a lot better than my ICE revving up and .... turbo lag... not moving.
Must be the extra pppower in the P�
Sep 24, 2013
cwerdna I agree w/almost all of your statement. The only part where the jury's out (for me) is the part I bolded.
It is a little too bad that this seems to be one of the threads where virtually all the problems go. It would be nice if there were separate ones (moving forward) where the issues were more separated out (e.g. interior, exterior, sunroof, electronics, body hardware, noises, etc.) This isn't necessarily the right set of buckets but something along the lines of the applicable trouble areas listed at Car Reliability FAQ | Answers to Reliability Questions - Consumer Reports is a start. Obviously, many of them don't apply to EVs, but I think you get the idea.�
Sep 24, 2013
SFOTurtle Experienced my first real issues with the car today after more than 9500 miles. This morning the right front door handle extended but would not open. Then when I started the car up, I could not turn the AC off as the pop up screen that controls the AC and fan speeds would not pop up. I did a re-boot when I got to work, and when I got in the car to drive home, I was able to open the pop up screen. About an hour after I parked the car in the garage at home, I heard the radio blasting. When I went out to the car, the radio was at maximum volume and would not turn down but at least I could shut off the sound by muting it. I did another re-boot but that hasn't done anything. Now the control screen is totally non-responsive, and there is a warning that the car needs service.
I haven't tried to drive the car again since returning home this evening, but will try to drive it to the service center about 20 minutes from my house (unless people here think that is a bad idea).�
Sep 24, 2013
bareyb I've seen a ton of videos with the "P" accelerating and I've never heard that sound. If my new one does that I'm gonna be really disappointed... I'm only going off the recording, but I'd be embarrassed. It's pretty hard be a bad ass when your car sounds like my Grandmother farting.�
Sep 24, 2013
Eberhard I have a problem with the panorama roof. There is a tongue in front of the glasroof, which slides underneath the rubber sealing of the car-roof. But the tongue sucked the rubber sealing down until finally the tongue slides now obove the rubber sealing when cloesed. now i have heavy wind noises and fear the roof to leak wen it starts raining.�
Sep 25, 2013
ddruz Have you notified your service center? They should be able to fix this for you.�
Sep 25, 2013
gg_got_a_tesla @SFOTurtle, you could try plugging out and reseating the fuse (51, as I recall, in the fourth column of the left fuse box) for the touchscreen.
As for the door handle, you may just have to get that (older design version) replaced. I had to get one replaced for the same symptoms back in June.�
Sep 25, 2013
SFOTurtle Thanks for the tip. No doubt on the door handle. After reading numerous posts on that during the day yesterday, I called and made a service appointment yesterday afternoon before leaving work and experiencing the other issues. This morning the screen seems back to normal and the service warning gone. I'm still going to call service and ask them to do a diagnostic on the 12V battery just to make sure it isn't starting to fail and causing the other problems.�
Sep 25, 2013
mal42north No, not a tesla employee, but Ive spent a lot of time working with precise opto-mechanical systems, mostly driven by linear motors of various types. When you are dealing with optics, and feedback control systems, mechanical resonances really^n matter.�
Sep 25, 2013
yobigd20 per wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanical_resonance
doesn't sound safe.�
Sep 25, 2013
Eggplant My S85 makes that noise. The P85 I had as a loaner made that noise. The SC assures me it's normal.�
Sep 25, 2013
bareyb It sounds like it's not "normal" but they simply accept it as something they can't do anything about. If the Motors had better quality control nobody would have this issue. The problem is, some of the motors have loose windings and other stuff moving around and it causes the resonating sound. In a perfect motor this won't happen. So really, it's a defect. I don't see how you can call it anything else.
I think Tesla just can't do anything about it at this point. They'd have to recall half the cars it sounds like and keep swapping motors until they found one that didn't have the problem. Even then, there would be no guarantee it wouldn't surface later on... So if you get stuck with one... well... you're just stuck with it I guess. I sure as hell hope my new car doesn't make that sound. I think it sounds ridiculous and I hope they can solve this problem as I think it's going to bum a lot of folks out. Myself included.�
Sep 25, 2013
Eggplant Yeah, it's not great. They say it's vibration in the inverter, not the motor.
Mine doesn't do it all the time either. Usually at very high acceleration (like to the floor). I'd say the P85 loaner might have been louder.�
Sep 25, 2013
yobigd20 in addition to the loud balloon leaking squeal, I also have a CONSTANT faint whine tied to the accelerator *at any speed* and *any acceleration* :
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/21939-faint-high-pitch-background-whine-*any-any-speed*-constant-sound-tied-to-accelerator�
Sep 25, 2013
cinergi Sounds like any other balloon-squeal noise I've heard in the Model S...�
Sep 25, 2013
znino The definition and example given is Gross exaggeration and taken totally out of context. The resonance noise you hear in the electric motor has nothing unsafe about it and is not comparable to resonance on a bridge that could cause a collapse. I am an electrical engineer. I am not just getting definitions of resonance from wikipedia. Resonance is a phenomena found everywhere in your every day life and doesn't lead to catastrophes. The literature that talks about bridges collapsing is also misleading as all those incidents are cause by combination of factors including wind interaction, not just resonance. But the bottom line is that when you pass a large amount of current through the windings, you get what we are hearing in the model S. No two motor windings are identical so sounds will not be identical or happen at the same times on all motors but you will not convince any of the engineers at Tesla that this is abnormal or a defect. It is a fact of electric motor life. Just like the sound you hear in a jet engine is part of that mechanical system.�
Sep 25, 2013
yobigd20 lol bad wikipedia ... /slap�
Sep 25, 2013
pfq1982 That's actually really scary. They would only think it's "normal" if they see a lot of cars with it. I think the owner consensus is not only is the sound loud/embarrassing/annoying, but it's not "normal", as there are multiple accounts of inverters being replaced to fix this problem.
I'm sure, just like the 21 inch tire issue and many other things, that the reporting frequency is lower than the actual frequency of the problem. Some people always drive with music, others don't mind the noise, other might think it's annoying but figure it's normal since it's their first EV.
It's interesting that for some, the problem is immediate. And for others, they received their car in the spring and are just having the issue.�
Sep 25, 2013
bareyb It's a fact they can't consistently build drive trains that don't have this issue. That's the only fact here. If EVERYONE had this "sound" then it would be a fact of electric motor life. As it is, it's intermittent and it only happens on random drive trains and therefore it's a problem.
I'm willing to accept that if I want a car NOW then it's something I may end up having to live with, but please don't try to tell me this is how ALL electric motors are, because that is not the case. There are many Model S cars that do not have this problem. And yes. It's a problem. It may not cause any harm, but if the engineers could eliminate this embarrassing sound from every car they absolutely would. It takes a bad ass car with incredible acceleration and makes it sound kinda silly. I hope to God they can tighten up the QC on the drive trains before they build mine...
I'm actually going to contact my Sales Person tomorrow at HQ and request that they make sure that MY car has a drive train without that issue. If I show up to get my car and it squeals like a Pig the first time I step on it, I'm gonna leave it at the factory and refuse delivery.�
Sep 25, 2013
pfq1982 I one thousand and second the suggestion that this mega thread of technical issues be broken down by category. A few suggestions: Acceleration whine, 21 inch tire inside shoulder wear, door handles, 12V battery failure. These seem to be the biggies.
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Thank you for this insightful post.
I happen to be highly sensitive to high-pitched and intermittent noises, so yo-big's noises would be a dealbreaker. I don't drive aggressively, so noises on max accel I could live with, but hearing it EVERYTIME the accel pedal is pushed... no thanks.
Your post convinces me that, when the time is right, I will have to purchase a used or loaner S that I can test drive to make sure it has a quiet inverter.�
Sep 25, 2013
znino Sorry bareyb, it IS the case and also the fact that they won't be eliminating this noise because it's a fact of engineering and manufacturing life. almost every model S owner I know (I am part of a club here with over 30 owners) has this noise on his Model S. I would venture to say all motors on all model S's will have it (if not today, after a while as things move and settle). Yours will too so get used to the idea now or cancel your reservation. And for what it's worth every owner I've talked to in the real world (in my local club and elsewhere) as well as a few automotive journalists who have driven my car find the sound cool. It's not embarrassing at all. It increases in frequency with power and sounds like a jet (I am talking about the squeal noise on high acceleration, not the constant other sound some have reported). You guys can now go on debating what is normal and not on this forum to your heart's content. This is my second electric car and as I have said before, in my engineering life i have applied power to many electric motors and ALL, not some... ALL, have a high pitch noise of one frequency or another when you apply increasing current. I hope you do not refuse delivery of your car for this. You will miss out on a lot if you do.... but perhaps you prefer the put put sound of your current ICE car
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pfq1982, the people I know who have had the constant noise that was described all have had it fixed by the service center so I wouldnt worry about that too much. They consider than abnormal and fix it under warranty.�
Sep 25, 2013
bareyb I think perhaps we are talking about two different things. Of course all electric motors "whine". The Balloon Squeal I am hearing in that recording is not normal... If I show up to get my car and it squeals like a pig every time I step on it, I'm going to leave my car at the factory and refuse delivery. I could not live with that. It sounds like the car is squeaking out a tiny fart...
Just so I'm sure you and I are on the same page... are you saying that THIS (see video below) is "normal" and happens on every single car with an electric motor? How do you explain all the people around here who don't have it?
�
Sep 25, 2013
znino Hard to tell. My whine doesnt sound quite as pig squeelish and your recording seems to go up then down in pitch where if I accelerate hard it goes up and if i back off it just stops. Maybe I can get a recording of mine posted so as to compare and see if we are talking about 2 different things.�
Sep 25, 2013
bareyb I'd love to hear it. Thanks. This is seriously messing with my buzz... Perhaps that recording is just an unusually BAD case? I hope so, because I really don't think I could live with that. It's a very silly sound and has no place in an insanely cool car like the Model S.�
Sep 26, 2013
kota23 Although my car hasn't been delivered yet, the sound in that video does not sound any louder than what I heard during my test drive. It sounds just like all electric motors that are ramping up to full speed under high load.�
Sep 26, 2013
JRP3 The pitch change to the "wheeze" sound is something I've not heard in an electric motor. Usually it's just a steady rising whine. That does sound like a resonance issue, though it may simply be inherent to the design of that motor, which because of it's high performance nature may be more subject to something like that.�
Sep 26, 2013
bareyb Exactly. It does nobody any good to bury our heads in the sand. Tesla needs to be aware of this problem and hopefully they can improve the manufacturing process and increase the number of cars that don't have the problem. I called Tesla HQ today and sent them links to this thread and a copy of the Youtube video showing the sound. It was my distinct impression that they are NOT aware of the ballon squeal problem. Just the normal "whine". So I think it's definitely worth mentioning to the service center if you have the "squeal". There *may* be something they can do about it.�
Sep 26, 2013
yobigd20
Tesla has known about this for at least a year.
Watch starting at 4:08. This was a test drive with a Tesla employee(video uploaded July 15th 2012...so they've known about this for over a year).
Excerpt from Tesla employee:
"that is a connector that has a lot of current going through it. And there's just enough electricity in it that its where it vibrates just at the right frequency where it's audible.. We're actually thinking about changing the frequency of the electricity that goes through there so its not audible...we're aware of that noise ...its just the connector...like a little whistle. We actually call it the "deflating balloon sound."
�
Sep 26, 2013
JRP3 Not sure I buy the "current passing through a connector" explanation.�
Sep 26, 2013
bareyb I will say the noise in that video is not as objectionable to me as the sound in the original video of yours that I posted at the top of the thread. At least it climbs steadily as you'd expect from a motor, and doesn't rise and then taper off like a popcorn fart. It's obviously happening to varying degrees from either really pronounced (like your car) to not audible at all (like Texex's car). If they really can change the frequency and eliminate it as the employee said, then that would be great. Either way, it's a good thing that Tesla is aware of it and is (hopefully) working on a fix.�
Sep 26, 2013
mep Ok an update on my "noises".
Little whistle: I have a very low level whistle at exactly 9 mph. It is almost not audible. I had a loaner P85 for a couple of days and it had it too. I don't mind because it very very low.
Louder whistle: I noticed that in the loaner when hitting it and it was as clear as in the above video. My S85 does not do it and I do not remember having heard it in the P85s I test drove before.
The "humming" noise at around 75mph I had: This was very annoying and not like a whistle at all. They too took a recording and send it to some Tesla engineers, just as reported by others here on the forum. That prompted them to replace the DU and I am happy to report that now I do not have that sound any more. So that is not normal and can be fixed. Will the fix last? Who knows. I pushed the car a bit tonight and went up to 95mph. I am hearing some engine noise but it is acceptable. The humming noise is gone. I am very happy now.
A new one: A week ago I started noticing some clicking sounds from right where the seat belt comes out of the B pillar, not very loud but right next to my left ear and constantly going. The curse of a quiet car. The loaner had it too. They took care of it and that noise is also completely gone.
Overall I am very happy with their service. They took everything serious and fixed it all and I got to drive a P85 for two days. Still, I am glad I have my car back. I believe I noticed that my 19" standard tires are less noisy than the 21" performance tires.
Now my car is perfect! I like quiet!�
Sep 27, 2013
nlc Not really convinced by the explanation...
On the perf version for example, max power is 310kW, thus approx 850A DC current in the inverter input conductors, and a little less of AC current in each motor phase output conductors.
I am pretty sure there is no connector to interconnect input power conductors to inverter and inverter output conductors to motor. I think it's rather direct screwed connection.
Concerning "changing the frequency of the electricity that goes through there so its not audible" :
An inverter converts DC voltage/current from 2 power conductor to 3 AC current for the 3 phases motor. To do this, the inverter uses pulse width modulation (PWM), which can be called the carrier. The duty cycle of this pulse width modulation signal is modulated to build the AC current in the motor phase.
Thus in an inverter we have 2 distinct frequencies :
- The frequency of the PWM signal (the carrier). This frequency is fixed and is the same regardless of the motor speed. If this frequency is too low, it will be audible as a continuous whistle regardless the motor speed. Habitually, this frequency is above 15 or 20kHz, to be in the ultrasound spectrum frequency and is inaudible.
- The modulated AC current frequency in the 3 motor phases (120� out of phase between motor phases). This frequency corresponds to the magnetic rotating field applied to the stator of the motor, and thus is totally dependent of the motor speed.
Thus if the audible noise frequency that some owner hear is changing according to speed, it's because that noise comes from the 3 phases AC current, and thus this frequency cannot be changed because it is totally dependent of motor speed.�
Sep 27, 2013
bareyb What do you think of the "resonance in the coil" explanation or that something else in the motor is vibrating or moving around?�
Sep 27, 2013
nlc Yes it's totally plausible, it can be conductors from inverter to motor, motor windings themselves, in fact any wire where the AC current flows. But the AC current frequency cannot be changed to have it inaudible because this frequency depends of the motor speed.�
Sep 27, 2013
JRP3 I wonder if the use of the word "connector" was a misunderstanding of the word "conductor".�
Sep 27, 2013
nlc Maybe.
Anyway, when I will have my model S, if the "balloon squeeze" noise during hard acceleration is here, it will not be a problem for me. It's a pleasant sound to my ears, symbol of high amperage in the motor and high torque delivered to the wheels. But it will be annoying if this noise is always here, even at stabilized speed or low acceleration. Also, the "hum" noise at certain speed will be annoying because this noise seems not normal to me.�
Sep 27, 2013
mknox Bump.
I still remain concerned about how extremely HOT the HPWC handle got and am interested in HPWC owners' experiences charging at 80 amps.�
Sep 27, 2013
Eggplant So, I have a hum that I hear around 70mph, but I sort of wrote it off as road/tire noise. It's not extremely loud, but probably the loudest noise I can hear. How can I differentiate between road noise and this noise? Do you happen to have a recording of the noise that was fixed to compare?�
Sep 27, 2013
nlc Probably passing in Neutral, to have no current flow in the motor. If the noise is still present, thus it is a vibration resonance from road/tire, or transmission, or from the rotor which can be a little unbalanced.�
Sep 27, 2013
cinergi It's not supposed to get that hot. Others have had the same issue, replaced their connector, and it returned to normal "warm" temperatures. Mine doesn't get anywhere near hot even after 3 hours of charging at 72 amps.�
Sep 27, 2013
AmpedRealtor My HPWC connector gets very warm, as does the black cable. I wouldn't say it's hot, because I can enclose my hand around the connector and hold it for an extended period of time without burning myself. But it is not a very comfortable experience. By comparison, the door handles get much, much hotter in the sun.
FYI Tesla says this level of heat is normal when dialed in to 80A. I get 240v @ 80A = 19,200 watts. That's enough to make anything warm.�
Sep 27, 2013
mknox Thanks for the HPWC heat comments. This particular HPWC was at the Toronto Store. I think I'll mention it to them next time I stop by.�
Sep 27, 2013
nlc On a metallic part which is a very good thermal conductor, it's easy to be burned from 60/70�c. But for conductor or electronic it's not so high. I think it's not an issue. And I believe that if the temperature was hotter than normal the HPWC would cut the power, they necessarily put a temperature sensor inside IMO, because it can be very dangerous and create fire if there is a bad contact @ 80A !!�
Sep 27, 2013
drees If the handle is getting too hot to touch or hold for 30 seconds, it's getting too hot. It's an issue. Period. The contacts themselves should not be seeing any significant rise at 80A - after all, they have to be able to endure 200-300A during supercharging!
There is no thermister in the handle of Tesla MS plugs, but IMO given how many issues there seem to be with bad plugs/connectors (Tesla is not alone here, see the Blink/Rema issues charging at 30A), there should be.�
Sep 27, 2013
nlc I misunderstood I thought that was the case of the HPWC that becames hot, not the plug. So I re-read carefully and it's curious that the charge port and surrounding areas wasn't hot. It would become hot too if it was contact problem !? Maybe it's a connection problem in the plug between wire and contacts ?
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19200W is the global power entering in the car. Fortunately it's not the power dissipated in the connector !!
80A is a lot of current, if the contact for example have 10 milli Ohm resistance, the dissipated heat power will be 0.005 x 80 x 80 = 64W !
supercharging needs very big conductor and very very good contact for sure !! We have no supercharger in France for now, what is (approx) the diameter of the supercharger cable ?�
Sep 28, 2013
FlasherZ In mine, it appeared to be some type of a contact problem with the pins in the connector. The Tesla end of my cord was replaced after the surface temperature of the coupling reached over 170 degrees, and it remains cool now.�
Sep 28, 2013
nlc It's an impression or the car is reliable but the external accessories are not !? 170 degrees is incredible, it means some adapters can be very dangerous and can get fire !!�
Sep 28, 2013
mep Good question. I tried to record it with my phone but when I listen to it all I hear is road noise. So it seems to be a frequency difficult to record. However, it was so noisy that I had a hard time listen to the radio while driving at that speed. So I would suggest if it bothers you a lot to talk to your service center.�
Sep 28, 2013
Stoneymonster I'm pretty sure 170 degrees is well below ignition temperature for the vast majority of materials on our planet.�
Sep 28, 2013
jerry33 But it's a great temperature for brewing many kinds of green tea.�
Sep 28, 2013
Eggplant Well, I shifted into neutral while the noise was audible, and it did not go away. I presume this means I have just road noise. It does make me wonder about my alignment now...�
Sep 29, 2013
loganss Each tire produces different noises as well. In past cars I found some tire brands to be very annoying to my ears on some roads and my alignment was good.
The p85 loaner i have produces a constant hum when accelerating that would bother me if it were my car. My s85 doesn't have this noise. Both cars have the ballon squel at pedal to floor acceleration and i don't have an issue with that.�
Sep 29, 2013
cwerdna As I told bareyb in person at NPID yesterday, the P85 Model S I test drove made the same "deflating balloon" sound the 2x I was able to hammer it. It's pretty noticeable.
FWIW, my '13 Leaf doesn't make any sounds like that, regardless of how I accelerate (light, pedal to the floor or anywhere in between). Ditto for the Rav4 EV I test drove yesterday (and the units I test drove 2x at Alt Car Expo last year). The Rav4 EV rep encouraged me to hammer it a few times and take a turn pretty fast.
Rav4 EV is (unfortunately) FWD and therefore very easy to squeal the tires on hard acceleration.�
Sep 30, 2013
Musterion
Have you checked this thermal imaging thread?
Credit: @ShortArc Model S - HPWC - Page 60�
Sep 30, 2013
mknox Thanks! I don't personally have a HPWC so I hadn't been following that thread. Some good discussion there about the hot handle.�
Sep 30, 2013
fluxemag I called into the Scottsdale service center to have a few things checked out (a rattle by the windshield, loud noise from suspension going over speed bumps, decreasing rated range etc). The other time I had it in they did valet pickup and drop off. This time they asked when I could bring it in and if I had another car I could use. Overloaded service center? The service center is 30 miles from work on the North edge of town.�
Sep 30, 2013
yobigd20 They sold all the loaners. At least that's what I was told by the Queens SC.�
Sep 30, 2013
nlc Yes but if it's the external temperature, the internal temperature is higher. And it means there is a contact problem which can be worst with time, and can really get fire
- - - Updated - - -
In neutral, because there is no clutch, all rotating part are....rotating, thus it can be road noice but also "gear box" or unbalanced motor's rotor.�
Oct 8, 2013
loco Hi,
I got my Model S few days ago. First thing I noticed was wind noise from the pano roof. I looked and it seems to be missing about 10cm (4 inches) of upper seal in the front middle part. Looks like it was cut out. Could you confirm it looks like that on all cars?�
Oct 8, 2013
yobigd20 Uh, no. I've seen it folded under, but not "cut out". Can you open pano and snap a photo for us?�
Oct 8, 2013
pete8314 My passenger rear door handle has quit working. It still presents itself with the others, but doesn't open the door, and the little light is out. Booked into the SC for a week's time (first date available for an S loaner, apparently they have 4, but 2 of them are 'booked out to sales'). Will get a weird rattle looked at as well, it happens on start up, sound like it's tied to the AC compressor, since it only occurs when it's warm (80f+), and sounds like either a mis-balanced fan rotor, or some pipes rattling together. I know I've read something about that, maybe in this thread.�
Oct 8, 2013
AmpedRealtor Check to make sure the front metal "tongue" of the pano roof is not pulling the seal downward and underneath the roof line. If so, you are probably missing some adhesive in that area. Mine did the same thing and the service center applied some additional adhesive to keep the seal in place. If your seal is literally cut out in that area, then there is something very wrong and you should have it addressed ASAP. That is an area where water can easily intrude.�
Oct 8, 2013
Eggplant Yeah, missing seal is definitely wrong. I do have problems with the seal moving around and getting pulled too low and causing noise, but the seal isn't missing. I plan on having the SC look at it next time I'm in.�
Oct 8, 2013
fluxemag Dropped off my car yesterday in Scottsdale (actually Deer Valley) SC. Waiting for me was a green P85+�
Oct 9, 2013
loco Here's a photo: Dropbox - 2013-10-09 18.38.06.jpg�
Oct 9, 2013
AmpedRealtor The cutout is fine, but there should be a small flap of the rubber seal hanging down from above. My car had the pano roof service bulletin applied prior to delivery, here's what it looks like:
�
Oct 10, 2013
ckessel Distressing. My car is completely dead this morning. Won't respond to the key, won't respond to the app, Tesla can't get a response from it. Tesla can see it shut down at 9pm last night, but no reasons why or warnings/errors. 12v was fine before shutdown.
Grrrr. All cars fail, but the level of mystery as to why involved with a Tesla is discomforting.�
Oct 10, 2013
mnx Have you tried putting 12v to the battery terminals under the nosecone?�
Oct 10, 2013
ckessel No, don't have anything I could attach to it anyway. Service is supposed to get in touch with me when they open.�
Oct 10, 2013
ckessel The tow truck guy jumped the 12v and the car responded. Initial checks on the logs show nothing wrong so it's not going in for service, which is sort of the worst case since now I'm going to wonder every time I go out to my car if it's going to randomly fail to work, rather than having something wrong that got fixed.�
Oct 10, 2013
efusco Get one of these until you're more comfortable that you aren't going to be stranded.
Amazon.com: Black Decker JUS500IB 500-Amp Jump Starter with Built-in Tire Inflator: Automotive�
Oct 10, 2013
teslasguy Since I got my P85 in Dec I have consistently had a problem with my left knee bumping the rear passenger window button and sending it down unknown to me. I try to be vigilant about checking it, but on numerous occasions I've come out from the grocery store or a restaurant to find the window down. Once I went through a touchless car wash and suddenly the entire car was getting filled with soapy water through the rear window. What a mess to clean up!
I've reported this design flaw to ownership services and asked that they have one of their developers come up with an option for the rear window lock button to disable those windows from rear and front. I can always select to turn the option off if I want to send down a rear window. All I got back was a canned response thanking me for input that they might consider for future versions. No acknowledgement of the problem really at all. anyone else out there having this problem? It's because the door slopes down at the point where this button is for the rear window, making it easy for a knee to bump.�
Oct 10, 2013
pete8314 Will try this later, in my head at least I can't imagine how your knee could bump one of the switches, but maybe it'll all make sense soon.
On another note, has anyone complained about the noise from the pano roof when tilted? When it's fully open it's fine, but tilted it makes a hell of a noise, clearly because of the huge gap that opens up between the car roof and the leading edge of the pano roof. To me, it's unusable in tilt-mode, aside from venting the car when it's sat in a parking lot all day.�
Oct 10, 2013
Doug_G Yeah, just open it an inch and it is much quieter. Tilt is only good for parking.�
Oct 10, 2013
Musterion Wow, really glad to happen across your post because the same thing happens to me all the time and I thought I had a unique physiological problem! I've learned to minimize it by careful seat adjustment which I am still tweaking. But the more comfortable I get with the car the more likely I am to move and bump the switch... I did think of one way to fix this. It seems one fuse may be dedicated to that door window motor from my reading of the manual. If it doesn't kill other needed circuits there is the possibility for us to put in a remote controlled electrical switch on that window via the fuse box. Following other threads we could even use Homelink to activate/deactivate the kill switch relay. Thinking is as far as I got so far on this problem, but I could do some experiments if it helps others with the same issue.�
Oct 10, 2013
efxjim I find the knee problem very annoying. The controls need to be recessed or have a protective ridge added to the right side.�
Oct 10, 2013
ckessel I went and sat in my car and I can't fathom how my knee could even get close to pressing the window controls without having a detachable limb, but obviously it happens for some of you.
FWIW, my unresponsive car was apparently the dreaded 12V problem. Not sure why after 10 months it kicked in.�
Oct 10, 2013
pete8314 I'm with you on this one, no matter how I tried, I couldn't press the buttons with my knees.�
Oct 11, 2013
Suzieq Happens to me a lot.�
Oct 11, 2013
mknox I had the exact same thing happen to me two or three times shortly after getting the car. When I first came out and discovered the window down, I immediately thought it was some sort of software bug that dropped the window while I was parked. Someone on the forums mentioned this was a possibility and since then I've managed to avoid the area with my knee. I would tend to hit it when reaching out the window with my RF fob to open a gate at work.
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The root of the problem is that the roof doesn't really have a "tilt" mode. I think that's why Tesla calls it "Vent" mode. My last car's pano roof actually would "tilt" and keep the forward edge sealed, but what Tesla does is just start the normal "opening" process and stop it after a couple of inches. Again, on my last car if it was in "tilt" mode, it would actually close, then go into "slide" mode when you wanted to open it fully. The Tesla just keeps on opening.�
Oct 11, 2013
Tempus I had a similar issue - had the 12v battery problem after just over 10k miles. Was replaced and everything is fine again.�
Oct 11, 2013
teslasguy Interesting to see here that I'm not the only one having this problem. I've also found that tweaking my seat adjustment helps a little. But I really think that short of a door redesign (which is unrealistic for our current version) it really shouldn't be a big deal for Tesla to offer the option to have the rear seat window disable button apply to only rear seat passengers or both front/rear. That would solve the problem for me. If I then want either rear or front passengers to lower a rear window I could just toggle disable button to once again enable them.�
Oct 11, 2013
EarlyAdopter I'm having a hard time understanding how anyone could be hitting the window controls with their knee, too. And I'm 6'6" and all knees and elbows!
Do you not keep your left foot on the dead peddle when driving? Or does this happen on entry or exit?�
Oct 11, 2013
mknox Maybe it's me, but I find the dead pedal way too far back to rest my left foot on. (Same on my prior Cadillac too). My wife's Pontiac Vibe has the dead pedal much further forward (i.e towards me), and I use it all the time.�
Oct 11, 2013
Morristhecat This may make it hard to open the door, if not impossible, since the windows slide down a bit under that chrome trim as you pull the door handle.�
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