Thứ Ba, 1 tháng 11, 2016

Model S Delivery Dates and Sequencing part 13

  • Aug 1, 2015
    dhanson865
    If there are superchargers between you and the store I can't see how anyone would pass up the chance to test the car on a trip home.

    A shakedown cruise would be so much more productive and safe than trying to diagnose everything during your normal commute.j

    and if you don't find any issues it'd have to be more interesting than just paying someone else to ship it.
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  • Aug 1, 2015
    Scofield
    Nice!!! I'm hoping to get something similar. Any suggestions...private party, CPO?
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  • Aug 1, 2015
    MsElectric
    You are going to have a hard time with most private party sales based on some of the prices I have seen as many are in denial that they have bought a depreciating asset :) The CPO process to me is worth about $5,000 as they go through a thorough reconditioning process and Tesla will stand behind the car. If you go the private party route, look up a similar CPO car and figure out your asking price from there and provide the link to the owner selling the car so he or she's sees what the market price is.

    If you are looking for a CPO car, be careful not to pay more than you have to. The best values are the P85s as you can buy 2013 models for the 60s and the 2014 models for the 70s if you look around and wait for the right car. If you buy an S60, you may not get as good of a deal. 85s can be bought for the mid 50s, as others have bought them at this price range but you need to be ready to buy one when one comes up. The key thing is patience so you don't end up paying more than you have to.

    Also it seems local Tesla galleries have access to a larger CPO inventory so you might want to do that.

    And here's a 2013 85 RWD that you might be able to get for the mid 50s:

    http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/642573429/overview/
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  • Aug 1, 2015
    Scofield
    Thanks, MsElectric!

    I'm trying to be patient. But every time I see a Tesla I want one....ASAP.
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  • Aug 1, 2015
    dusterbuster
    Picked up my 2012 CPO S 85 (tech, air, sound, obeche, tan) yesterday from the Centinela Service Center. The CPO experience has been great. Good luck to all of you out there who are still on the hunt. It's worth the wait.

    FullSizeRender.jpg
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  • Aug 1, 2015
    ecarfan
    Rest assured that is the typical response when taking delivery of your first Tesla, or the second one, or the...
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  • Aug 1, 2015
    freeewilly
    2000+ miles from Highland Park, IL to Southern California. A little bit (I mean a lot) more than my comfort zone. But, I want the car so bad, I will probably do it anyway.

    - - - Updated - - -

    What a beauty, congrats!!
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  • Aug 1, 2015
    3mp_kwh
    If you mean take delivery in Chicago, you won't get a chance to "test" the car on the way back. You'll have to accept it, there. If I could repeat my CPO experience, I wouldn't have a car shipped, or fly to pick it up. If you miss something, you could get stuck escalating it, like me. I'm re-learning that it is always better to inspect, and then buy a used car.
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  • Aug 2, 2015
    MsElectric
    What issues are you having?
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  • Aug 2, 2015
    jvmoore1
    This is my concern since the closest Service Center is 6 hours away.
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  • Aug 2, 2015
    3mp_kwh
    Finish. I'm not sure I've given enough time for them to respond, but I am surprised how much it has already become a contest. Otherwise, I would have held off on saying anything.
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  • Aug 3, 2015
    Cyclone
    So I got my car back today. The repaint was out of my pocket. Tesla continues to feel it was something the detailer did and if it was indeed something the previous owner had repainted improperly, they would not cover that. The detailer is adamant that this must have been a poor paint repair prior to my ownership as he has done two more Teslas without issue and he has never seen this happen on any car he has worked on. So I've got to eat this one.

    The car also got some work done by the service center while they had it. The following was fixed:
    - left scroll wheel doesn't always work = both scroll wheels replaced (come as a set)
    - driver front interior door handle doesn't always work = latch/mount holding cable in place was broken (though cable still attached to handle), cable mount replaced
    - drive unit whine up to 20 kW of power and sometimes more = covered by next repair
    - clunking when transitioning between driving and regen = drive unit replaced to address this and inverter whine
    - rear suspension bottoms out (suspension, not the car - car never hits ground) when going over speed bumps at 12 MPH on Very High air suspension. 11 it just rumbles over them, but at 12, it kicks me out of my seat because the car basically slams down on the suspension. = fixed via user education. Basically, I was told that when the car is on Very High, its like Frankenstein wobbling back and forth because there is little compression room in the suspension. I have since reprogrammed the speed bumps to High from Very High and the problem has not recurred
    - proactive contactor replacement = battery failed inspection when doing this service b/c of a clogged exhaust vent and corrosion in one section of the casing. Loaner battery (a B pack) installed while my battery (also a B pack) makes its way to Freemont for repair
    - rear brake rotors replaced. No mention as to why. Perhaps the rust in the image above interfered with the drive unit swap? They did also have to retrofit a motor mount because the newer drive units mount slightly differently than the old ones, so perhaps that necessitated taking the rotors out and the rust interfered? In any event, the front rotors were NOT replaced (still look like the image above), but both rears were.
    - the weekend before I took the car in it rained for the first time that I had the car in my possession (this is the 3rd service visit after all since buying it). Turns out the frunk leaks by the latch. = replaced seal that goes around the frunk
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  • Aug 3, 2015
    MsElectric
    I bet you are glad the car is covered under warranty :)
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  • Aug 3, 2015
    ModelSFL
    Seems Tesla has put up CPO cars everyday. Anyone think it is strange none of been launched since July?
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  • Aug 3, 2015
    dhanson865
    replaced the rotors but you still have the corroded looking calipers?

    With the insanely open stock rims I'd either want 19" cyclone or aero rims to hide those calipers or I'd want the calipers repainted or otherwise cleaned up (plastidip coated, scrubbed, sandblasted, something to make them look like new)
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  • Aug 3, 2015
    Drucifer
    That is so much work, maybe when it's done they should reset the odometer to zero. Seriously, I am so sorry this has happened to you. Tesla should have done what Mercedes and others that have a CPO program do. If Mercedes (and others) take a car in on trade, and inspection reveals too many issues, they take it to auction rather than harm the reputation of their CPO program. Not doing the full inspection and prep BEFORE posting the vehicle online and selling it really puts Tesla Motors at risk. Tesla Motors should seriously reconsider the way this program is managed -> prep and inspect car first - maybe use it in the "service loaner" fleet for a little while and get feedback from owners about the car - then put it up on the website if everything is OK or can be made OK.
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  • Aug 3, 2015
    MsElectric
    This is a good point. It seems Tesla just performed most likely around $7-10K worth of warranty work (possibly more than that even) and I really felt bad for @Cyclone to see the condition of the paint :( I doubt that type of paint damage could have been caused by any reputed car detailer and the damage was likely the result of shoddy work performed before @Cyclone bought the car. I'm just glad he had the warranty as if he had bought that car out of warranty from a private party, he'd be screwed.

    +1 about the Mercedes CPO approach. I heard they typically CPO only a fraction of the vehicles they take back and the rest, as you said, goes to auction.

    I really feel Tesla should list the service history with CPO vehicles so you can see the car's prior service history and what was performed on the car before you buy a car. With Mercedes' CPO program this information is readily disclosed if you are interested in purchasing a CPO car and I don't understand why that's not the same with Tesla.
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  • Aug 3, 2015
    BoerumHill
    No cars were listed 6/27 - 6/30, right after the first AP S60s got listed. There was another lull of four days in May. So, no, I don't think it's strange we had no listings for two days (today's not over.)
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  • Aug 3, 2015
    world101
    Just curious... anyone pick up a late 2014 CPO that actually came with Auto Pilot, but it was not listed on the CPO website or the EV CPO Consolidator? These would be somewhat rare, but possible. It would have been built after mid-Sept 2014 and VIN ~P45XXX (give or take a few 1000) or above. I received an inventory quote 3 months ago for a P85 that had AP hardware (built Nov 2014), but it was not listed on the build sheet (only showed Tech Package at $3750 -- original pricing). The VIN was P45334. I test drove it and they had already updated the software to have AP capabilities. Given this, there are several cars on the CPO site that are VIN P50XXX range and above that are listed with Tech Package. Wonder how many actually have AP hardware???
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  • Aug 3, 2015
    brantse
    So, after finally finding and reserving a CPO, first up on the list to do (besides constantly checking for updates on my Tesla page) was to sell my car. It's an 09 Jetta TDI wagon, with about 118k miles. I received a trade in offer from Tesla for about $2500 under fair book value, so figured it made sense to sell it private party. I was just feeling stressed about the time crunch. Fortunately, after just two days now, I'm happy to report that I had 3 people all offer to come pick it up tonight with cash in hand, and that it went home with one of those three. Now, the problem I didn't anticipate....I don't really have a vehicle to use and have to leave for a work trip tomorrow :frown:. I can only hope that I'll return to a call that my CPO is ready and waiting when I get back.
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  • Aug 3, 2015
    Cyclone
    Cograts brantse! A better one of the potential problems to have ;)
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  • Aug 3, 2015
    freeewilly
    THANK YOU brantse. I'm so excited. I contacted Brent out of Highland Park on Saturday, he sent me a few awesome deals, and I reserved a 2013 white S60, with Primacy tire, lacewood decor, supercharger, and tech package for $52,000. It only has 10,700 miles on it.

    Can't wait for it to arrive in So. Cal in 3 weeks.
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  • Aug 4, 2015
    TomServo
    I have bought Corvette's since 1972 and pay close attention to telltale signs of neglect/abuse and just the appearance of the CALIPERS would have given me pause. Rotor "hats" do rust and the fix is easy, repainting or replace the rotors, but those CALIPERS look like crap. I wonder what conditions the car was driven in to cause that appearance?
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  • Aug 4, 2015
    brantse
    That's awesome, really glad it worked out for you too. Seems like a great deal with low miles.
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  • Aug 4, 2015
    Cyclone
    The car was previously in NY. The mirrors were seized due to road salt. The brakes do work great though. Nice and even, with no brake steering. So even solely a cosmetic thing, it is an it's an interesting decision by Tesla towards the initial impression on the car. My keys were similarly given to me with one cracked and the other heavily worn. MsElectric commented in this thread that this is an interesting decision as these are the first things the new owner interacts with and even if they are fully functional, doesn't convey a grand initial impression.
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  • Aug 4, 2015
    MsElectric
    ++1. This is generally a sign of neglect and an indication of someone who really did not care much for the car. This is also one of the first things I look at to gauge the condition of the car. I know people buy CPO cars sight unseen but I'd never pay for one without a thorough and complete inspection. If the car was presented to me in this condition, I would have rejected it.

    IMHO more CPO buyers need to do their due diligence and not blindly pay for cars unless they are completely pleased with what is being offered. Seems like the whole buying process is structured to get you excited and pay for the car without actually giving you much information about the car. Can you think of any other car manufacturer that sells CPO cars using stock photos of the car rather than actual photos of the car you are buying?

    We've bought many used cars in the past and generally if the calipers are in really bad shape it means the car was never properly washed or detailed and likely sat outside a lot with minimal care. Not that that it necessarily means it is a bad car but I'd rather buy a car with clean calipers that was well loved and cared for by the previous owner, all things being equal. I take meticulous care of our cars and I'd never allow the calipers to get to that condition and I'd prefer to buy a car that was similarly cared for by someone else.

    - - - Updated - - -

    We just happened to have bought a CPO Mercedes a few months ago. And yes, that's a brand new key after a few months of use and both keys we were given were brand new. If someone buys a CPO car and they give you a scratched up key or one that is cracked or falling apart, just reject it.

    key.JPG
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  • Aug 4, 2015
    clarkbariowa
  • Aug 4, 2015
    Cyclone
    Assuming one is eligible for the Federal Tax credit and no State incentives, a brand new one will be $88k, configured just like this, but also have white alcantara (standard textile headliner no longer available) and not have dual chargers. I guess $90k with dual chargers. If you can swing a referral, it would be $89k. Given you can get an extended warranty and the changes that continue to be added to cars as things progress, I would go with the brand new one unless this is exactly the specs you want and you aren't eligible for the incentives.

    Its a nice discount, but I would imagine you can get inventory cars around this price in another week or two.
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  • Aug 4, 2015
    clarkbariowa

    Just priced it out on the site. $95,700 before tax incentive. ($94,500 + $1200 dest/doc free)
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  • Aug 4, 2015
    Max*
    Cyclone is correct, he's comparing after federal tax incentives.


    85D $85k
    Paint $1k
    AP $2.5k
    Premium $3k
    Sunroof $1.5k
    Gray Leather $1750
    Trim $750
    Total: $95500 + $1,200
    Plus dual chargers $2,000
    -$,7500 for federal tax

    Grand total: $89,700 vs. the $81,500 they want.
    $8,200 difference between used and new.
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  • Aug 4, 2015
    Tamar
    It was probably less than 2 months ago that my SM told me the Ds wouldn't make it to CPO site for another year. I'm still happy we waited for an inventory car and got one with 9 miles on it, and glad we didn't cave to the temptation of ordering new.
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  • Aug 4, 2015
    shadowinstallz
    I come up with $91,200 after tax inventive.....$9700 savings? or am i wrong?
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  • Aug 4, 2015
    Max*
    Woops, my bad. It is $91,200 and a $9,700 savings.
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  • Aug 4, 2015
    Cyclone
    Yes. I hadn't included the delivery and registration fee. Still, while a nearly $10k discount is nothing to sneeze at, inventory cars can sometimes be found for nearly the same discount. But there's the rub, you need to find the eighth inventory car too. This will likely make a nice discount for someone looking for these exact specs.
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  • Aug 4, 2015
    MorrisonHiker
    And $6000 cheaper in Colorado! Tempting.
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  • Aug 4, 2015
    Cyclone
    True. Both the same difference in pricing as the new one would also be $6k cheaper, right?
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  • Aug 4, 2015
    MorrisonHiker
    Yes, correct.
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  • Aug 4, 2015
    ahurst
    Living in CO makes it more difficult. That $6k has to be factored in for any car not previously registered in state.
    It makes my head spin.
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  • Aug 4, 2015
    BoerumHill
    28 new listings went up at 10:10. On iPhone, haven't had time to digest, but that's a motherlode!

    ETA: 26/28 in S.F., nearly all look like high priced P85/P85+. Hidden cars just dropped by a similar number, these are recycled listings for the most part.
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  • Aug 4, 2015
    No2DinosaurFuel
    August 4th. Seems like a lot earlier than i expected. Still 81K is still expensive in my opinion. I am going to wait it out when it hits 60s. Yes i will be waiting a long time... But lets see when the x comes out.
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  • Aug 4, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    Tesla is now starting to list more than 40 cars per location. All this was was re-listing cars that were previously rotating out of the display when the limit was 40 cars. This drop was 26 cars from the San Fran location and 2 cars from San Diego/OC now listed on the TM Preowned website.
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  • Aug 4, 2015
    BoerumHill
    Yep, I was cross posting my update when you quoted this. Recycled listings without price drops.
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  • Aug 4, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    I suspect that they will soon be listing all of the CPO inventory on their site, and EV-CPO will of course pick them all up when listed.

    The SF/SD dump was just the first step in the process.
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  • Aug 4, 2015
    BoerumHill
    Maybe Brent from Highland Park got kicked upstairs.

    ;)

    I'm a little surprised we haven't seen more price chops. There's a ton of 04-27-2015 listings that simply aren't moving. I'm hoping my buying window (60-90 days hence) and the first Model X production units will coincide with price cuts. They're going to have to figure out how to move a lot of Model S trade ins Q4 & Q1 2016.

    OK, wishful thinking...but it could happen.

    :)
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  • Aug 4, 2015
    shadowinstallz
    maybe ill p/u a second model s if prices become very attractive. :biggrin:
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  • Aug 5, 2015
    TomServo
    Whle I got my trade in quote on my 2014 Stingray from Highland Park Store yesterday (much better than I expected) and was tempted to pull the trigger, I'm now worried about buying a Tesla with ONLY the 4 year CPO warranty. Owning a 5 or 6 year old Tesla out of warranty scares me. It's not like you can wrench on it like a traditional ICE and I doubt local mechanics will touch it.

    Tesla needs to offer an extended warranty on their CPO cars.
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  • Aug 5, 2015
    davidc18
    +1 on the extended warranty. What does it say when Tesla will not offer the extended warranty on vehicles that they have inspected and certified??? . I would love to pick up a CPO for our second Tesla but we will wait until Tesla starts showing us actual photos of the cars and includes the complete service history of the vehicle.
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  • Aug 5, 2015
    BoerumHill
    It's a huge concern of mine as well, Tom. I had no interest in private sales and was fully intending to buy a CPO until I realized Tesla doesn't have an extended warranty option for CPO. Their lack of foresight has forced me into looking for a private sale in which the owner has already purchased the extended warranty.

    Usually when Tesla does something that's not in keeping with industry standards its because they're pushing the envelope. In this instance they're making themselves less competitive. It's stupefying; why would they not be willing to stand behind their product?

    When I read threads about Out of Warranty Concerns and see that people are getting nicked for $200 per issue when they're on the extended warranty I'm even more mystified. It definitely makes you question if you should buy new and plan on trading in 2019, or even lease new. I really don't want to be on that hamster wheel. I'm retiring at the end of Q1 2022, and hoped my first Tesla would be the last vehicle I buy between now and then.
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  • Aug 5, 2015
    MsElectric
    Wow. A lot of P85+ models got listed. I have no idea who is going to pay $90-something for a 2013(!!!) P85+ let alone a 2014 P85+ when for around $81K you can buy a CPO 2015 85D with Autopilot, AWD, and a whole bunch of other refinements along with about the same acceleration...

    I am glad they are just listing everything they have, as they should so customers can find the car with the right color and option choices they prefer. It is absurd to hide cars in their inventory.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Given depreciation is about $1,700 a month, it should hit the $60ks next year so the wait might not be as long as you think.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm really glad they are doing this. With the 85D now starting to hit the CPO market they should do something to move the earlier built P85 and P85+ models. They are not going to get any more desirable with time...

    - - - Updated - - -

    I agree completely. They may yet make that policy change and offer the purchase of an Extended Warranty for CPO purchases. An easy fix for this is to make the CPO warranty in ADDITION to and after the Factory Warranty expires rather than the CPO warranty REPLACING the factory warranty. This way you will still get the full factory warranty and an extension of that with the CPO program. This is how most other CPO warranties are handled by other car manufacturers. I shared my thought on this recently on a different thread:

    http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/51074-Thoughts-about-Tesla-Warranty-CPO-Service-and-Other-Policies

    In the meantime you can always buy from a private party with the Extended Warranty but then be sure you look up al the service records to ensure the car was serviced as required as the Extended Warranty (ESA) is apparently contingent on all the services being done as required.
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  • Aug 5, 2015
    tga
    Aside from the drivetrain, it's just a car. If you feel comfortable doing suspension work, it's no different than any other car.

    It's not like Teslas are made of unicorn horns and pixie dust, held together with Whitworth fasteners...
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  • Aug 5, 2015
    BoerumHill
    They are listing more than 40 cars per region now - SF 66, SD 42, CHI 41 - but I don't think from that you should presume they are now listing "listing everything they have." In fact I'm starting to wonder if the volume of CPO sales that never hit the listings far exceeds any level we might have suspected before.

    Who Is the Used Tesla Model S Buyer? | Edmunds.com

    That's a link to the original Edmunds report that came out about 8 days. Its been picked up and been the basis for many articles since. The study was based on 1,600 registrations, which was every Tesla CPO sold this year.

    Hard stop. 1,600? How is that possible when until last night, the website showed no more than 40 listings per region, and roughly 280 - 300 in total? The data was gathered from April to July. 1,600 is FAR ABOVE what the CPOC has picked up.

    Am I crazy to think the CPO sales have been way higher than we suspected based on what the CPOC has tracked or what we have observed online?

    Hopefully this will be addressed during the ER call this afternoon. Would love to hear more data on the CPO program YTD.
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  • Aug 5, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    Let's just say a birdie flew in my window and told me that they are listing all CPO cars in their inventory (or soon will be). :)


    The article is analyzing all used Model Ss, not just CPOs: "as of May there were 1600 used Model Ss registered in the US"
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  • Aug 5, 2015
    BoerumHill
    Good catch, Hank. I've read 4-5 articles in the last week based on that study, each with a different angle. Most auto writers are sloppy and misconstrue data (hey, like me just now lol.) This morning I finally found the original Edmunds analysis on my iPhone; posted quickly without reading it. Thanks for clarifying.
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  • Aug 5, 2015
    brianman
    Any legal eagles around?

    My understanding:
    1. Tesla currently doesn't offer the extended warranty in WA state. My understanding is that it's some legal and/or political issue.
    2. Tesla currently offers a warranty on CPO vehicles.

    Question:
    3. If I sold and rebought my vehicle to/from Tesla @ 49,500 miles, will I get a new warranty?
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  • Aug 5, 2015
    freeewilly
    I believe the answer is YES. But, the the price difference will be much higher than the cost of extended warranty.
    plus when you buy it back, you have to pay sales tax again.
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  • Aug 5, 2015
    brianman
    Still might be worth it for the Sig. Hm.
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  • Aug 5, 2015
    ahurst
    I just realized something that may help CO buyers.
    I was debating getting two Telsa's - one for wife and myself.
    I thought the CO tax credit was non-refundable... and we did not have enough tax liability to maximize the $6,000 x 2 ($12,000) total credits.
    But the credit is refundable...this really changes the dynamic for me. Any unused credit is refunded in the form of a tax refund.
    I'm happy.
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  • Aug 5, 2015
    MsElectric
    Could you not just do this:

    + Create a shell company in another state. Most likely you just need the Articles of Incorporation Paperwork to be filed.
    + Transfer your car to the company that you just created
    + Get the extended warranty
    + Transfer the car back to your name and dissolve the shell company

    I am not an accountant or lawyer so do your own due diligence but I don't see how this approach couldn't work...
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  • Aug 5, 2015
    ModelSFL
    If cost and options were the same, would you buy a S60 with AP or S85 w/o AP for the some price?
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  • Aug 5, 2015
    MsElectric
    For "almost" the same amount, I'd buy a P85 w/o AP for a more exciting driving experience :)
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  • Aug 5, 2015
    Max*
    Depends on where you live and if you take road trips or not.
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  • Aug 5, 2015
    ModelSFL
    I do take a lot of highway trips, about 20-30k miles a year. SCs are always on the way.
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  • Aug 5, 2015
    Max*
    That's a tough call. In my area with my supercharging spacing (NE) and where I drive: I'd go for the 85 for the reasons below:

    I got a 70D recently (1.5 months, up to almost 4,800 miles with several road trips under my belt). I can say that where I live and drive, I never need to charge anywhere near 90% at the supercharger to get to the next one (so range is never an issue for me, but it's summer). BUT before I got it was looking at the 60 vs. 85D and decided I'd want the 85 since I do enough roadtrips where the 208 vs. 265 EPA difference was enough to sway me away from the 85. At 240 vs. 270, it didn't seem as big a deal to me.

    Then the 70D was announced, and I jumped on that with AP. And I love the TACC on roadtrips, makes life a lot easier. Can't wait for auto-steering.
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  • Aug 6, 2015
    ModelSFL
    Good feedback, I also think it will be hard to call until we see how much AP lives up to what we think it will be. However, holy cow - is this a steal or what?

    EV CPO Consolidator ev-cpo.com

    2012 23,161 miles P03023


    $59,900

    Were the P85 2012's really that devalued?
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  • Aug 6, 2015
    3lectronica
    Base P85 was priced at $92,400 before tax credit in 2012, and it included premium interior, 21" wheels, and air suspension!

    Model S Options and Pricing | Tesla Motors
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  • Aug 6, 2015
    ModelSFL
    Looking at the other options they had listed, there is over 100k into it, so about a 40-50% depreciation in 3 years?
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  • Aug 6, 2015
    MsElectric
    Given that a CPO 2012 S Class is going for around $49K asking (which means you can likely take it home for around $44K) I'd say $59K for a 2012 Model S is pretty darn good resale wise. That's about a 34% better resale value compared to an S Class.

    Model S resale values are quite good.

    http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/637497541/overview/

    http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/640557295/overview/
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  • Aug 6, 2015
    ModelSFL
    Yes they seem good but still seems like a steal. Other than parking sensors and AP features, was there anything else the 2012 models lacked that were in 2013-2015 builds?
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  • Aug 6, 2015
    Max*

    Power folding mirrors.
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  • Aug 6, 2015
    Drucifer
    And option to buy subzero and buy next gen seats.
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  • Aug 6, 2015
    Cyclone
    At least these can be retrofitted.
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  • Aug 6, 2015
    ModelSFL
    Good to know but not game changers for me anyways (other than AP futures). Hmmm..now only if I knew what having AP capabilities were "worth"
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  • Aug 6, 2015
    BoerumHill
    Between DIS & TSLA I'm thinking there might be a LEAF in my future.

    :)

    Better days ahead.
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  • Aug 6, 2015
    Skotty
    The cheapest P85's on the CPO site that I have seen start around $65K, with most being $70K or more.

    Even at $60K, it doesn't sound bad to me. My 2012 Volt is worth maybe $15K when original list price was around $44K.
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  • Aug 6, 2015
    Cyclone
    I would also note that older VINs are get stuff that were add-ons later. So a 2012 has fog lights, premium/ambient lighting, chrome inserts by the frunk latch, chrome inserts by the trunk latch (I think), all standard.
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  • Aug 6, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    This one didn't last very long! Listed at 1:10p ET, gone by 3:30pm.

    EV CPO Consolidator ev-cpo.com

    2012 85 kWh Model S
    7,496 miles P01930 $57,000
    Tech Package
    Green Metallic Paint
    Tan Leather Interior
    Body Color Roof
    19" Wheels
    Obeche Wood Matte D�cor
    Supercharging
    Active Air Suspension
    Sound Studio Package

    Nice options!
    �
  • Aug 6, 2015
    Drucifer
    Low miles, but "no pano, no bueno para mi".
    �
  • Aug 6, 2015
    Cyclone
    Likely an A-pack too, but I wouldn't let that stop me. But I agree with you, pano was on my "must have" list.
    �
  • Aug 6, 2015
    3mp_kwh
    So trying to patient :biggrin:.
    �
  • Aug 6, 2015
    ModelSFL
    Wouldn't this been the better buy?
    EV CPO Consolidator ev-cpo.com

    85 kWh Performance Model S
    2012 23,161 miles P03023
    $59,900

    Black Solid Paint
    All Glass Panoramic Roof
    21" Grey Wheels
    Black Performance Interior
    Lacewood D�cor
    Carbon Fiber Spoiler
    Supercharging
    Twin Chargers
    Active Air Suspension
    Sound Studio Package
    �
  • Aug 6, 2015
    MsElectric
    I'd definitely consider that a better buy. The RWS S85 acceleration is nothing compared to a P85. If you are into that sort of thing :wink:
    �
  • Aug 6, 2015
    ModelSFL
    Looking at past sales, I am claiming it is the best deal yet..someone got lucky!
    �
  • Aug 7, 2015
    MsElectric
    I agree but to some extent I think that price is what it should be given that at that price you are still looking at about a 34% premium over an S Class.

    It is interesting to note that every CPO car that went on sale on 4/27 and has not yet been sold has now seen a price drop.

    I am still not sure though who is going to buy any of those P85+ vehicles for the $90Ks, apart from a few RWD enthusiasts who like the staggered wheel setup. An 85D with autopilot just sold for $81K...

    It is great that they seem to be listing all the cars they have available in the CPO program and this makes so much sense as I can imagine people being picky with options and colors so if they had what someone is looking for but not listing it, that makes no sense. Other CPO programs list thousands of cars so I presume there are no ill effects in listing the entire inventory so customers can find exactly what they are looking for.
    �
  • Aug 8, 2015
    Tamar
  • Aug 8, 2015
    spentan
    Yes, they did a black roof option for a while.

    Personally no pano roof = deal breaker for me. But lots don't want a sunroof, so the black roof looked nice on red/white imo
    �
  • Aug 10, 2015
    FlatSix911
    Thanks for sharing the link ... great information on Tesla demographics.

    �
  • Aug 10, 2015
    TomServo
    Aside from the Active Suspension this is the car I want.
    �
  • Aug 10, 2015
    BoerumHill
    FOR CLARITY - my earlier post was incorrect. The study looked at 1600 Used Registration and and concluded at the end of May (it was released in July.) Therefore it is NOT just CPO data; in fact, at that juncture most of the Used Registrations would have come from private listings as the CPO had only been active 5+ weeks.
    �
  • Aug 10, 2015
    Cowby
    i think i was offered this one personally before it was listed...decided to forego as i really want the RFS....and a higher vin as well for folding mirrors.
    �
  • Aug 10, 2015
    freeewilly
    Did they offer you the same price? $57000.
    �
  • Aug 10, 2015
    BoerumHill
    Sooner or later the prices for well optioned, relatively low mileage P85+/P85 listings have to come down. They're not moving - at all.

    I'm going to speak in generalities here and try to walk a fine line out of respect for Hank's proprietary CPOC premium content. The data reveals some startling trends.

    The CPO website launched 15-1/2 weeks ago. They have 300 active listings, and have sold under 500. Including the mysterious Hidden (removed not sold) and corresponding Canadian categories, the CPOC has picked up more than 850 listings total.

    Over the last five weeks, about a third of the sales have occurred. I calculated the average sale price from subscriber info; suffice to say the CPO program attracts bargain hunters.

    What I can share (with permission) is of the last 160 or so Sold CPO listings, less than a handful were high end. A couple or three P85Ds, and one (1) P85+ that sold in the 90s - that one had 207 miles on it. That means more than 155 of those sales were in a range from the mid $40s to the high $70s. Sales that begin with an $8xxxx are rare and are almost exclusively $80xxx or $81xxx. There's a real psychological resistance point at $80K. The overwhelming majority of sales start with a $6xxxx or $7xxxx.

    The median price of the 300 listings is roughly $83-84K. There are 70-something listings above $90K. In other words, about 95% of uppermost quartile of CPO listings just sit there unsold, day after day, week after week.

    All the while the depreciation clock keeps ticking. It's not just that the high end cars age another month from their build date. These CPO listing vehicles are often out as loaners. Just bookmark a half dozen and watch the mileage get updated several times every day. So the mileage depreciation factor goes up as these high end listings age, yet price drops are rare and insignificant.

    The median price of Sold listings is subscriber content, but I can reveal its a five figure number differential from the median listing. That's a huge spread from aspirational price to reality.

    There's a logjam at the high end of the CPO program. Something's gotta give sooner or later.

    If you're actively looking for a CPO, I would urge you to invest in a CPOC subscription. It's a great tool at a fair price, and the data is most useful in making an informed purchase.
    �
  • Aug 10, 2015
    sitter_k
    Great analysis! What do you do for a living? lol
    �
  • Aug 10, 2015
    Cowby
    That or 58k....can't remember specifically now.
    �
  • Aug 10, 2015
    mmd
    Didn't someone say you can get the best deals by calling the service center? And that those deals are not even listed on the cpo site?
    The high prices on the CPO site don't make sense. But if these are lowered,then the RVG liability will increase. It's a difficult game.

    Be careful! FUDster label can be assigned very quickly to anyone with the slightest hint of negativity.
    �
  • Aug 11, 2015
    Drucifer
    But Tesla Motor Corporation would be eating the same depreciation using inventory cars as loaners, so it is a push for them. Also, by putting time and miles on these CPO cars, it will eventually drive them into the right price range.

    I think the only thing that is going to "give" is that the Tesla Model S is going to have a depreciation curve that more closely resembles that of other large, luxury sedans over time.

    As long as TMC gets use out of these cars in the service loaner fleet, and they don't just sit on the ground rotting, it really isn't a problem for TMC.
    �
  • Aug 11, 2015
    hpham007
    IMO, I think it's not a psychological resistance but more of a fact that around 80K, you're competing with a brand new 70.
    �
  • Aug 11, 2015
    BoerumHill
    This seems on point. The CPO effectively lowered the entry point for many buyers.

    I wonder happens in the CPO segment of mature brands. To use BMW as an example, my sense is that 3 series or 5 series buyers stay within their strata. Like its a decision of "nothing beats new" versus "I'll let the 1st owner take the big front end depreciation hit and buy CPO 3." I don't think - no data to support, just MHO - the prospective buyer compares a new 3 or a comparably priced CPO 5. Different cars, different buyer needs, different performance. Upmarket I don't think the new 5 series buyer seriously considers a CPO 7. It's very segmented because the driving experience is different for the different models, as well as the utility factor.

    The analogy might explain why we see so many P85/P85+ listings. Those folks are often in that segment because they wanted the latest, greatest, fastest, quickest. They're accustomed to bleeding edge consumption and don't want to compromise. They traded in after 1-2 years to get insane mode.

    The S60/70D new buyer might chose a classic S85 for greater range, or they'll spring for a high mileage P85 because they're getting more bang for the buck.

    But who is the buyer of the well equipped, gently/lightly used P85/P85+? You can do the math and understand the pricing rationale from Tesla's perspective. A P85+ that sold new at $115-126K less (x months service x $$$ per month) less (x miles times x $ factor) equals CPO list.

    But who is the buyer of this high but (somewhat) fairly priced P85+? It's not the discriminating buyer who wants the latest tech. It's not the driving enthusiast who wants the quickest car off the line. It's not the 85D buyer who highly values the dual motor and feels they are future proofing by gettin the autopilot. The high end Tesla CPO listings seem like orphans at this early stage.
    �
  • Aug 11, 2015
    ModelSFL
    Well put, I would also agree with this perspective.
    �
  • Aug 11, 2015
    BoerumHill
    Aspirations of becoming a short order cook one day. In the interim period, working as a finance magician at a tech company.
    �
  • Aug 11, 2015
    freeewilly
    Yes, I reserved one directly about a week ago, it was never posted on the CPO site. The price is awesome, lower than any price posting on CPO site today.
    Since the car need to be shipped from Chicago to CA, SA said it will take 3 weeks, the local delivery specialist said 3 to 5 weeks. MY TESLA account shows late October....... I can't wait any longer...
    �
  • Aug 11, 2015
    ModelSFL
    Nice, what did you get?
    �
  • Aug 11, 2015
    freeewilly
    S60, White, Michelin Primacy Tires, Lacewood Decor, Supercharger, and Tech Package. 10,750 miles, VIN P23006.
    �
  • Aug 11, 2015
    ModelSFL
    Nice! How much lower did you get by not using the CPO listing?
    �
  • Aug 11, 2015
    alwaysru
    Working with someone from one of the "stores" worked well for me. I used HanLloydWright's CPO consolidator (IT IS AMAZING - sign up if you're planning on buying a CPO), but having an actual person to talk to about the ones I was interested in was very helpful. I got real pictures of the one I ended up purchasing, he was able to provide a CarFax, and he's been helpful since the purchase on providing advice, etc.
    �
  • Aug 11, 2015
    2MuchFun
    Long time lurker, first time poster here. I want to thank HankLloydRight for his contribution to the Tesla community and his awesome CPO Consolidator. As a result of using the consolidator, I was able to pickup a nice CPO P85 (P07035) this past weekend at an attractive price. I was concerned with some of the experiences posted here, particularly those that Cyclone has gone through but I am happy to report my car was in excellent condition with no significant issues. The car was nice enough to have on display in the Columbus sales center recently, and it appears to have very little wear and tear. I picked the car up in Columbus at the service center and made a road trip back to North Carolina the same day.

    20150808_193819.jpg

    My CPO experience did have some issues along the way that were a bit disappointing though. When I tried to order a different VIN vehicle online, there was a glitch with the Tesla payment system that took my deposit (three times mind you) moments after another person placed a deposit for the same car. Tesla was unwilling to honor the same price for a very similar car that I pointed out to them. They did offer to refund my initial deposit, but said the process would take at least two weeks which is understandable, but kind of slow considering it was a problem with their system that caused the issue. Fortunately, a twin to the car I placed a deposit on came up a few days later at a good price and I had my deposit transferred.

    Overall, the car makes the experience worth while, although Tesla has their work cut out in order to improve the CPO program, and their sales/delivery program. I am pleased with the caliber of people I interacted with, and hope Tesla will better empower these very skilled individuals to make the customer experience even better.
    �
  • Aug 11, 2015
    BoerumHill
    Congrats! That was a very nice price for a low mileage P85. Glad you had a good overall experience despite a couple bumps along the way.
    �
  • Aug 12, 2015
    cab
    I am attracted almost exclusively to the P85 and P85+, but as you note they sit there week after week parked at their stubbornly "too high" price point. There is, of course, a ripple effect. If they drop the Ps then the Ses will have to drop accordingly, etc. The odd thing is that the higher the original purchase price, the worse the depreciation curve typically is. Having said all that, I honestly don't think the cars are terribly overpriced. It is, as you say, however - a no man's land. Typical, potential CPO buyers are looking for a price that is generally CHEAPER than a "new" Model S and by "new Model S" I mean cheaper than a stripper S70 and by more than a grand or two. Anything that cross that line into "I could get a new one for that" will make "new" buyers likely lean that way. The rest of the CPO folks are looking for an 85 Model S for loaded 3 series money (call it $55k for grins) with an additional $5K tossed in for a "P". It is what it is. If I were an owner now and considering selling, I would just hold on to the car until its natural depreciation curve hit the low $50s and likely sell it easy.

    I will add one other item. Most CPOs from other manufacturer's (like BMW) tend to be three year lease turn-ins with 30K+ miles. The Tesla CPO fleet all have generally MUCH Lower mileage figures which is also keeping the numbers comparatively high.
    �
  • Aug 12, 2015
    Drucifer
    There's your real answer. Teslas have been pretty much a "purchase only" vehicle with very little in leasing. There are probably owners of P85s who would have waited until the end of their lease to trade for a P85D, but since they were owners, and had the itch, they did it much faster. This led to a relative glut of low age/low mileage P85s and P85+. The P85+ is a really tough case since it was originally priced like "king of the hill", but now has performance akin to a regular 85D today.
    �
  • Aug 12, 2015
    mmd
    Or they got a great trade-in and upgrade deal from Tesla that they couldn't resist :)
    �
  • Aug 12, 2015
    BoerumHill
    Massive price cuts about to be uploaded?

    230+ cars removed from CPOC about an hour ago....
    �
  • Aug 12, 2015
    mmd
    Doubt it. Any mark downs will be very slow. There are lots of implications of wholesale price drops. More likely, some deals will be thrown at random to sell few cars at a time.
    �
  • Aug 12, 2015
    BoerumHill
    Tesla remove 90% of their 80 most expensive listings along with 150+ other listings.

    69 listings remain. 56 of the listings have now a new list date of 08-12-2015 20:40 EST. The 12 S60 AP listings from 06-26 are unchanged along with one listing from 07-08.
    �
  • Aug 12, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    It could be a glitch on the consolidator. The thing is I'm traveling right now and won't get to my hotel for a couple of hours to check it out.

    Stay tuned.
    �
  • Aug 12, 2015
    Buckeye2320
    On the site lots of cars are gone that were there. Not a CPOC issue, more like Tesla doing something.

    Chicago went from 40+ cars to only showing 12 on the Tesla pre-owned site.
    �
  • Aug 12, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    Ok thanks for the confirmation.
    �
  • Aug 12, 2015
    HankLloydRight
    A quick check on my ipad shows all the counts match up....so yeah, Tesla is up to something. We'll just have to wait it out.
    �
  • Aug 12, 2015
    ahurst
    Ugh. The 4 Denver CPO's are gone.
    �
  • Aug 12, 2015
    Fiver
    Don't sweat it. I just bought a bunch of cars. What's the big deal?
    �
  • Aug 12, 2015
    DiamondDave
    Wow! A 70th car was added just before midnight. 2012 P85 for $59,700.
    P02434?

    Well optioned other than no pano (or I'd be buying instead of posting!) 26k miles.
    �
  • Aug 12, 2015
    No2DinosaurFuel

    Actually the Pano can sometime be more of a hassle than none. I would make the purchase, but I am out of cash right now. $59700 for a P85 is the lowest ever for a P85. I think I predicted this to happen around September/October timeframe. I guess everything is coming sooner than expected. I am still ultimately holding out for a 85D in this price range.
    �
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