Dec 30, 2012
GeekGirls I just picked up our Model S at the factory today and am enjoying getting to know her. So far it seems like an incredibly well designed and solidly built vehicle with a few kinks I expect are related to ramping up production. The issues I've noticed so far:
Bluetooth audio stuttering. Playing back music from my iPad via Bluetooth results in periodic stuttering that most assuredly does not happen with other Bluetooth connections. Using the same device in our Lexus RX450h results in flawless audio playback.
Passenger-side mirror sticks. The driver-side mirror responded as expected to adjustments, but the passenger mirror would move in unexpected directions or stick when adjusted.
Charging cable locked by brief button touch. The first time I attempted to remove the charge cable I did so by briefly tapping the charge cable button. The light cycled through blue, then white, then back to green. Pressing the button again, even holding it down as is evidently the correct procedure, wouldn't return to a white state. I had to select "Stop Charging" from the main touchscreen before I could unlock and remove the charging cable.
Panoramic roof sticks when opening. Attempting to open the roof to any state (vent, comfort, or fully open) requires two attempts, the first time the roof sticks just as it's starting to open and still shows as closed. The second attempt works as expected.
Outdoor temperature reading is absurd. While charging this evening, I've seen an outdoor temperature reading of 82F while it can't be more than 60F or so.
Projected range resets to "instant." After changing to show my average projected range I find that on returning to the energy screen later the projected range always resets to instant rather than remembering my preference.
Call Tesla service indicated while adjusting height. Our driveway is steep and the Model S will bottom out unless raised. I attempted to raise the vehicle to "Very High" and lock it in Jack mode to prevent auto-leveling, but the vehicle advised me that the active air suspension needed servicing. The height did change and I was able to make it safely down the driveway and start charging for the night. Hopefully I can make it back out again!
Clearly some of these issues are fixable in software, and others will require service to look at the vehicle. If the most egregious can addressed shortly I'll patiently wait for fixes to the rest. Fingers crossed, because otherwise I've loved the experience.�
Dec 30, 2012
JRP3 I've definitely seen, and owned, frameless window cars that did not have this feature. Most recent was a Subaru outback. I do see how going up into a groove would give a tighter seal, so I guess that's why they do it.�
Dec 30, 2012
jomo25 The frameless window-ed cars I had (Z3, S2000, 370Z convertible) all did it. They did happen to all be convertibles, but I think it's the same.�
Dec 30, 2012
Doug_G Funnily enough, I have one very good exception - also a convertible - the Tesla Roadster.�
Dec 30, 2012
pete8314 Doesn't it also allow the 'heavier' doors to close easier due to less air pressure inside the car? My last few cars have all had this feature, but they've all been 2 door cars (big, heavy doors). I think I recall having a VW Passat around 2000 that if you happened to close both doors at once (happened more often than you'd think) then neither would close (and it didn't have the dropping windows). That was my last 4 door, but not for that reason
I guess every car since then has had frameless windows, so my theory may not be sound.�
Dec 30, 2012
Zapped +1 Very good point.
The slight window drop solves both of those issues�
Dec 30, 2012
jomo25 Yes, the pressure is also part of the reason as I recall. As a matter of fact, I recall the past cars manuals saying something about special instructions to open the doors when the 12V battery was dead due to the risk of causing damage due to pressure since the window wouldn't be able to drop down.�
Dec 30, 2012
David-El Just to help with these issues:
Re: Pano roof sticking, there were posts previously about the roof going to vent mode first before opening and it is a known issue that can be fixed with a service visit if I remember correctly.
Re: the Energy app, there are two spots that may have an answer to this. The first would be Controls>Settings>Apps>Energy, check here to see if there is a toggle between Projected and Instant. If not there, perhaps under Controls>Settings>Units & Format, there is an option to choose between Projected and Ideal, this changes the remaining range in the center screen, I don't know if it will change the energy app, if not, just put it back to Projected. I tried reviewing Cinergi's videos but couldn't find an answer and I don't have my car yet (will soon!) to be able to check myself.
Re: Adjusting Height, you really should only put it to Very High, Jack mode is only for if the car needs to be towed on a flatbed, and it shouldn't be driven in Jack mode.
Sorry I couldn't be of more help.�
Dec 30, 2012
Brian H I believe Jack mode kills all shock absorber action, and would be quite hazardous.�
Dec 31, 2012
wycolo 7400 ft elevation visibility 1.5mi 13*F 45% humidity Calm
Dusted 1 inch of powder off ModelS. Using new technique: hold right fist between driver's door & pillar, with left hand gently pull on handle. Then door opens w/o the glass passing the chrome roof edge. This works(!). Today the window went down the 1/2 inch as it should. Guess the spray with silicone along the seal didn't hurt. No silicone shmear visible on glass either. Used: "Mac's - NAPA 8300 - mfg by Ashland, Russell, KY". Lubed up the Tesla charge doors too.
S begging to be plugged in. Went from "full standard charge" of 236 to 186 miles over a 4 or 5 day period. Yesterday was 206, so that is 20 miles in one day. Environment = OFF (the 6pm toggle). That's like an 8% per day loss, no complaints from me.
--�
Dec 31, 2012
JRP3 Seems excessive to me. At that rate if you drove say 50 miles and then parked for 10 days you come back to an empty car that won't make it back. It also hurts the efficiency profile if the car burns 6-7kWh's a day when sitting still.�
Dec 31, 2012
wycolo > Seems excessive to me.
I was just fleshing out my report. Sure, it's not like the Roadster that can sit day after day with little loss, but at least it's not begging to be kept in an insulated/heated garage.
> At that rate if you drove say 50 miles and then parked for 10 days you come back to an empty car that won't make it back.
LOL, don't you folks have crapmobiles to park at airport long-term??
> It also hurts the efficiency profile if the car burns 6-7kWh's a day when sitting still.
Sure, but @11 cents per kwh not too pressing. NO tech pkg here, so would that qualify as excessive? I'll chart this daily and not plug it in until daily usage drops to a lower plateau (enters life-saving mode). Easy for me to do since I don't drive it.
--�
Dec 31, 2012
efxjim Sounds like a belly blanket (1" of custom molded isocyanate foam stuck to the battery) might really help out in the very cold climates.�
Dec 31, 2012
GeekGirls I'll definitely mention it since they're going to have to perform a few other service tweaks. Fingers crossed.
There are no settings for Energy, or at least I assume that's the meaning of the dimmed app icon. In any case, touching the Energy app under settings does nothing.
I certainly hope there's no connection between the two because it would be utterly counter-intuitive. I may simply get used to the value of the instantaneous in helping me adjust my driving style, but I would certainly prefer that it remember how I had it displayed last.
That's curious. It is also exactly what the person I spoke to at Tesla said when I called, whereas the v4.0 manual claims that you can drive in jack mode up to 4.5mph. I was concerned that the car's attempts to auto-level while going over the hump at the top of our drive could result in bottoming out, but I guess I'll trust that it knows what it's doing and cross my fingers.�
Dec 31, 2012
cinergi Definitely a bug (IMO - may be by design but I think it should remember your last setting).�
Dec 31, 2012
dtich +1, my thoughts exactly.�
Jan 1, 2013
anticitizen13.7 Could someone explain to me how the windows on the Model S work?
From what I understand, when you roll the frameless windows up all the way, they seal up into the main body of the car. Do you later need to lower the windows to open the door to get out of the car? How does the car handle sealing up the windows when locking and unlocking from outside the vehicle?�
Jan 1, 2013
jerry33 That is all supposed to work automatically. You shouldn't have to do anything extra.�
Jan 1, 2013
Robert.Boston Exactly this. The car manages the window. All the human does is open or close the door.�
Jan 1, 2013
anticitizen13.7 How does the car roll down the window quickly enough? The power windows in all the cars I've owned would be too slow to react. Does something in the mechanics of the door handle drop the window when the handle is pulled?
The only car with frameless window I have ever owned was a Subaru, and it had the cheaper implementation where the window did not go up into the seal.�
Jan 1, 2013
Beavis It works. Trust me.�
Jan 1, 2013
efusco The door opening is electronic, not mechanical. So it simply unlocks & lowers the window simultaneously and seamlessly.
Evan, Via Tapatalk�
Jan 1, 2013
lolachampcar Go up to any car with frameless windows and auto lowering and gently/slowly start to open while paying attention to the window. The first part of your opening action turns on the motor to lower the window just a bit. It does not move far and thus is fast. If you snatch on the handle too quickly and pull, the glass will be held in the crease of the seal while the door moves out. This causes the window to pivot which allows the top to lower just a bit and pop out of the seal. By the time you go to close the door, the glass has dropped.
I've got a MY97 with mechanical door latches and auto lowering glass. I specifically open the door like I would engage a pre-trigger. I wait to feel for the glass movement before I continue to open the door.
As someone has already said, the MS has electric latches thus they can sequence glass down then door unlatch. Also, newer window assemblies are much faster than my old toy from 1997.�
Jan 1, 2013
wycolo > By the time you go to close the door, the glass has dropped. [lolachampcar]
Unless it hasn't dropped. Because it is frozen solid to the door. Then you can't close the door. Then you are pi$$ed off 'cause you are out in the parking lot and it is below freezing and the sun has gone down and people are rushing home all around you. So you get in the car & call AAA or Ranger service. They come and using a credit card in their strong hands scrape away the ice along the lower window seal & then slide it in between the seal & glass separating the two. Bingo, window pops down the necessary 1/2 inch & door can be closed. And you can drive home.
Or, you spray silicone into door seal on a regular basis and brush snow & ice off roof & window religiously at every opportunity, then this might not ever happen to your S.
Or, you take door apart, getting air bag out of the way, and relocate window regulator assembly to a new position about 1/2 inch lower so the door can always be closed. It might need to be dropped only 1/8in - just enough so glass does not hit chrome strip along roof as door is being closed. On my car it appears that the glass & roof seal will still be doing a very good sealing job in this new position.
Or, you open door & sever the wire feeding power to the window regulator motor. Window now permanently in 'drop' position. Come Spring, re-connect wire. But this full-drop position might not seal as well as doing the precise adjustment above. And other weird stuff might occur since this is not your father's '88 Corsica.
--�
Jan 1, 2013
lolachampcar Florida here..... no ice
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Jan 1, 2013
Todd Burch Just leave the windows down in winter, and there will be no freezing issues.
BTW, just a datapoint because I've had my car for two days and this thread was freaking me out before I got the car (and others too, likely)...I've had zero mechanical issues in two days of driving so far.
A few software bugs, and room for improvement, but everything's functioning well (knock on wood). Haven't had to reset the touchscreen at all. (Just kidding about leaving the windows down).�
Jan 1, 2013
GDH +1....:scared::crying:�
Jan 1, 2013
Ben W After 3000 miles with my S (Signature Special Performance #61), I got today for the first time the dreaded "Needs Service - Power Limited" error. Naturally it happened as I pulled away from the curb with five people piled in the car for a test drive -- possibly the extra passenger weight triggered something? In any case, the car had very little power and wouldn't go over 20mph; I had to drive slowly and embarrassingly around the block and back to the house. After they all got out, I stopped and restarted the car a few times, rebooted the touchscreen, drove around a little bit, and after ten minutes or so the error disappeared. (And the car has been fine for the past 20 miles since.) This is with 3.0 firmware (1.15.14); for some reason my car hasn't been updated to 4.0 yet, let alone 4.1. But just a FYI, that if this does happen, it can fix itself. I'll call Tesla tomorrow and find out if there's anything they need to look at.�
Jan 1, 2013
DrComputer Had you just been driving it before giving your test drive? There was a known "heat soak" problem with the 3.0 software that if the car was driven and got warm, you then parked it for a few minutes and turned it off and then got back in a few minutes later the thermal sensors could think the car had overheated. Turning it off and then back on again would fix he problem. This has been (or so I was told) fixed in 4.x.
- - - Updated - - -
Not sure this really is a technical or mechanical issue but it is a mystery. After my trip for LA to SF back to LA my car was very dirty. I decided to give it a nice New Year's bath and found a strange piece of pink plastic INSIDE what appears to be a sealed taillight. I've sent the LA service center the picture too to see if they can figure it out. I don't see anything else pink that could have broken off inside the housing. Very strange.
�
Jan 1, 2013
Zextraterrestrial I think the outer housings of all the lights aren't sealed and that is why they fog up. That area where the pink is might be open to the 'outside'�
Jan 1, 2013
White Tried to open my sunroof today (3 times) and it wouldn't open once. It made a sound like the motor was stressed and just gave up. Not sure what the issue is... but from reading this thread there CLEARLY is an issue that needs fixing.
- - - Updated - - -
I am having so many issues that I started a page to document them all and share the good, bad, and ugly. I realize the car is new/cutting edge technology, but the growing list is bumming me out.
Here is my experience with constant updates. - http://www.gadgetking.com/2012/12/27/an-owners-tesla-model-s-first-impressions/
My latest issues are the sunroof not opening (stuck shut) and the mirrors not pointing down when going in reverse? I have the setting set to do this... but they don't move at all when the car is put in reverse.�
Jan 1, 2013
dtich yes, i too was told that the outer clear plastic in some sections wasn't a sealed part, but that the lights inside are fully sealed and that any condensation will go away doing no harm. fwiw.�
Jan 1, 2013
SuperCoug This fogging issue on the Model S has me looking more closely at other cars on the road. I have noticed a few cars with some condensation but today I followed a relatively new Toyota that had one of its turn signals almost completely full of water! I can't imagine why the bulb hadn't burned/shorted out but it was working perfectly. The sloshing water was unmistakable. This guy could have been driving around with a goldfish in there. :smile:�
Jan 1, 2013
ddenboer I was told the condensation was not normal, and needs to be fixed. I have all rear lights and the chrome bar being replaced next week (I have experienced some extreme condensation in there that was even still there after an hour drive to Menlo park on a sunny, but cold, morning).�
Jan 2, 2013
lolachampcar DrComputer
Looks like a small save the ta tas sticker.�
Jan 2, 2013
JRP3 My guess is it got into the lights when assembled at the factory and just dropped down into view after road vibrations.�
Jan 2, 2013
ckessel I make no statement of opinion on these, just data points offered. Delivery was 12/31:
- charge port door doesn't open (was true at delivery and service has been alerted, can manually be opened with a smack of the palm behind the pivot point)
- passenger side rear handle won't retract as of day 3 of ownership. Told a rep at the store, she said she'd notify service for me.
- Multitudes of weird "pop up" bugs with the GUI. It'll pop up the blue tooth screen at random, the Release Notes screen at random, etc. Reboots haven't helped.
- Condensation in the tail lights (as noted by other members)
- Driver's side window fogs easily (as noted by other members)
�
Jan 2, 2013
MikeK Sounds as if something may be causing false touches to register at the very top of your screen, if all the spurious popups are related to functions that are accessed by touching the symbols at the top.�
Jan 2, 2013
napabill An interesting anomaly occurred on my recent cross-country trip from Calif to AZ. When I left CA and drove north from Needles to BullHead City then on to Kingman, AZ I changed time-zones, from PST to MST. I was curious to see how the clock in Tess handled it. Well, just before I got to Kingman the clock advance an hour as expected. I spent the night in Kingman, and at some point it reverted to PST. Stayed that way until I was a couple hours out of Kingman heading south when it advanced again. I asked the Service guy in Phoenix if there was a way to manually advance the clock/time-zone and he said he didn't think so. Anyone else have experience crossing time-zones?�
Jan 2, 2013
jhs_7645 Minor nit, you have a pictures of a Alpha (maybe Beta?) Model S on your blog entry�
Jan 2, 2013
strider And you programmed them correctly (in addition to enabling the feature in the Settings screen)? You need to put the car in reverse, adjust the mirrors to the "reverse position" that you would like, and then save your profile.�
Jan 2, 2013
Robert.Boston Had a curious error this morning. It was a cold morning, about 17 degrees F ambient (and I park outside). The car had been charging for 30 minutes or so, to get the battery warmed up. I unplugged the UMC, got in the car, and found that the center screen was completely blank. Black as in off, with no backlighting. I reboot the center screen; no visuals, but the usual sequence of sounds tells me that the center-screen computer had indeed turned off and on again. Still no center display, at all. The car drove fine, however.
Here's the curious bit: the screen was functional. I could turn the HVAC on and off by pressing the center of the bottom strip, and I could turn on front and rear defrosters, relying on my memory of the displacement from center of those controls. I didn't discover this fact for about ten minutes (when the fact that my seat heat was on made me think...). After a few presses on the screen, the screen suddenly lit up -- not the boot screen sequence, but instant-on.
I chatted about this incident with the Service Manager and my DS, who happened to be around when I was getting my winter wheels mounted this afternoon. My DS, a former Apple employee, mentioned that some screens don't work in extreme cold. But 17 degrees F isn't extreme, at least by standards our Canadian friends have been experiencing apparently without incident. It's supposed to be even colder tonight, so I'll see if it happens again tomorrow.�
Jan 2, 2013
stevezzzz @Robert.Boston: I saw something very similar to this the other day as I was leaving the garage; temperature in the garage was just above freezing. The 17" didn't act like a cold-soaked LCD, it was just black. I didn't try to operate any controls while it was dark, though. We sat in the driveway and futzed around a bit until the screen suddenly came back to life. I don't know if it was something I did, or just a random glitch.
@White: I've seen my Profiles 'forget' the rear-view mirror settings for Reverse following a software update. Try re-programming your profile's rear-view mirror settings and see if they stick.�
Jan 2, 2013
AnOutsider Man.. finally got the dreaded power reduced message after dropping off a family member. They live 35 minutes away so I didn't want to drive home like that (though it probably would've been good for range), so I pulled over and shut down fully (interestingly, the car rolled after I shut down like it went into neutral). Once it rebooted I had full power again. I hope 1) not to repeat that and 2) we can get a limp mode option for increased range.�
Jan 2, 2013
cinergi Wow. There's really no good reason I'm aware of for the backlight failing to operate when it's that cold. I'm assuming LED backlight vs. CCFL which means -40C to +85C or thereabouts (wildly varies depending on manufacturer). CCFL has a more narrow range.
What's the site that buys stuff and rips it apart to find out what's inside? They need to buy a Model S :smile:�
Jan 2, 2013
lolachampcar I'd think it more a display driver issue (hardware) and not backlighting as normally you can see something with the backlight off (some reflectivity in the back plate to spread the LED light).�
Jan 2, 2013
Todd Burch When my truck driver dropped the car off, he mentioned that since the display is LCD, if cold soaked the crystals can freeze and the display needs to warm up. Shouldn't be a huge issue once preheating (smartphone app) is available--but a little surprised that it happened at 17 degF.
- - - Updated - - -
White, to explicitly address your issues:
1. Sunroof issue is a minor software bug in which the safety threshold for stopping sunroof travel is set too low. Will be fixed in the next software release, I hear. Happening for everyone that I know of, and is not a mechanical issue.
2. As strider mentioned, put your car in reverse, adjust the mirrors, save profile, then you should be good.�
Jan 2, 2013
JRP3 Electric blanket for the screen?�
Jan 2, 2013
jerry33 But the "instant on" doesn't sound like a cold display. I would expect that the display would be dim at first and then get brighter as it warmed up--Unless there is some kind of circuit or driver software that keeps it off until warmed up. I doubt that's the case though because if it were there would be more examples.�
Jan 2, 2013
PattyChuck You're probably thinking of iFixIt, but I'm more curious to know... will it blend???�
Jan 2, 2013
mknox Tesla uses an electrically actuated secondary brake instead of a parking pawl in the transmission. Sounds like it didn't engage for some reason.�
Jan 2, 2013
Doug_G I just had an identical experience tonight. The conditions were rather more severe at -20C (-4F) and the touch screen did not light up. I tried rebooting and I could tell it was booting because the HVAC turned off for a couple of seconds. The screen popped back to life about 15 minutes later, after I had already driven some distance.
I don't know if this is related to cold, or just a random glitch. It certainly had an impact on dealing with the cold, as I couldn't access some important controls!�
Jan 2, 2013
efusco Maybe a cold related random glitch. I've had it happen in about 40F temps and this morning in about 20F temps, but it didn't occur earlier this morning in 14F temps and several times after cold soaks in 20sF temps. Not enough reports to say if it occurs in warm temps as well.�
Jan 2, 2013
Lloyd I had the same thing yesterday, but I could just barely see where the buttons on the screen are. I navigated to controls, lighting controls, and set the day/night toggle to day, and then back to auto, then everything was back to normal. Outside temperature was about 48 degrees.�
Jan 2, 2013
Doug_G I'm not sure it was the same thing. My screen was utterly black. I tried shining an LED flashlight (aka iPhone) at it and couldn't see anything. Mind you it was dark out.�
Jan 2, 2013
efusco Yea, mine was off, not dimmed, totally not energized.
Evan, Via Tapatalk�
Jan 2, 2013
Jgdixon I have reported similar issues in the Winter Driving experience thread.
Is anyone else concerned about the press becoming aware of all our concerns?
We all find these posts invaluable, but there could be repercussions for all of us if this all gets blown out of proportion.
At least on the TM forum you can make your posts private.�
Jan 2, 2013
FlasherZ Same here at lunch today -- 21 deg F ambient after 35 min lunch stop. Screen lit after pulling out of parking lot.
Tried emergency flashers, didn't make noise, seemed like computer was shut down.�
Jan 2, 2013
Chris Well I can chime in. Had the same issue with the console screen staying dark (see my post in the winter driving thread). Not so concerned about the press but TM taking our reports and concerns serious and providing a fix�
Jan 3, 2013
JRP3 Yeah, problems will happen and they are going to be talked about. If some members of the press want to use minor issues to start a FUD campaign they will. If the issues get fixed and the car is solid overall it won't matter.�
Jan 3, 2013
lolachampcar jgdixon,
Yes, I had and have the very same concerns and sent a note via back channels to Tesla a while back.
In my note, I asked that Tesla get out in front of these issues. Some if not all are real and some may be hyped (the nature of people). All are a concern.
I understand if Tesla can not be on the forums for control reasons but there are many a member/mod that are close to Tesla and have their best interests at heart. I suggested one of these people moderate a sub group that has a thread devoted to each issue describing how many times it has happened across the number of shipped units, the possible cause and what is being done about it. This would be backed up by inside information from Tesla via back door channels.
My concern is that some "reporter" will comb through the forums and write an "article" using the forums as his/her due diligence. If inclined, one could write a very nasty piece. It would not be hard to find one or more agitated customers to quote.
I've never had any luck in sticking my head in the sand so I've tended to be pro-active on problems. I firmly believe that these problems are all small and that with a reasonable amount of quality communication they can be managed for the customer's and Tesla's benefit. It has been pointed out that doing this would put all the issues in one place for someone to easily reference. I do not buy that argument as the issues are already in black and white with the list (and risk) growing every day. They need to be listed along with number of occurrences and the corrective action that is being taken so anyone interested will see the complete picture.
I've yet to hear back on my note and the forum member that delivered it did a lot of "explaining" in their initial and subsequent responses. The fact that my contact spent so much time explaining the way things are to me was telling. I fear that the tendency to explain on a person by person basis will prevent any meaningful global action and will leave the door wide open for mischief.�
Jan 3, 2013
Robert.Boston The issue I reported yesterday recurred this morning. Ambient temp was 8 degrees F. Knowing that I could get the front defroster going, I started a low-amp charge and cranked the heat about 20 minutes before leaving. By the time I was ready to go, the cabin was nicely warm and all screens operating normally.
It appears, therefore, that the smartphone app will address this issue in most situations, but (a) the app isn't released yet, and (b) proper functioning of a critical part of the UI shouldn't depend on cabin temperature.
My completely uneducated guess is that there is a connector somewhere that loses contact when it gets sufficiently cold. This theory would explain the vehicle-to-vehicle, and even day-to-day variation we're seeing, if the connector was seated with different degrees of goodness-of-fit / tolerances.�
Jan 3, 2013
Brian H That makes much more sense than frozen liquid crystals. Or some other component which is subject to on-off cold effects.�
Jan 3, 2013
mknox I'd be more concerned about a Regulator becoming aware of the issue and ordering a recall. The touchscreen controls a lot of functions, including the ability to operate your front and rear defrosters and your lights (if not in Auto) which are compulsory safety features. Imagine if Ford or Toyota drivers found they had no way to control these things until (hopefully) after driving for a time. I'll bet a recall would be demanded in short order.�
Jan 3, 2013
Robert.Boston These controls are operable, merely unmarked.... Yeah, I agree, that doesn't help much.�
Jan 3, 2013
Mike_Schlechter Not sure how, but 4.1 pretty much broke things in my car that previously worked just fine. Now I can't open the sunroof, Bluetooth calling wasn't working and my door handles didn't auto present. I rebooted and things seem back to normal, but am concerned that many things went sideways at one with so small an update.�
Jan 3, 2013
jomo25 For those of you who followed the Volt, you know how things can easily get blown out of proportion by (a) the media, (b) Govt' regulators, and (c) politicians.�
Jan 3, 2013
pete8314 I would hope that of all the threads on the Model S forum, this is the one that a team at Tesla are taking notice of. If that's not the case, then others are right, it will eventually turn into a PR nightmare, rightly or wrongly. As mknox mentions, if something like the touchscreen ceases to operate correctly at low temperatures, that will result in a recall, and a huge PR exercise...Tesla would be far wiser to get in front of that, otherwise all the naysayers will come out of the woodwork pointing out that a 'big fancy 'iPad' to control the car is great until it doesn't work, bring back buttons!'. I can see it now, so much journalism is cheap these days, and this would be an easy shot.�
Jan 3, 2013
AnOutsider Minor issue. Hard to see in the below pic but the call times on my phone screen show 3 hours ahead of the true time at the top of the screen
�
Jan 3, 2013
JimO S1873 See post 647 in this thread regarding black screen. I reported this back on December 19th. My car is finally at service in Los Angeles and they are telling me that they don't see anything wrong with it. Of course on January 1st and 2nd, I didn't have the problem however I did every day since December 19th. I'm hoping that this morning when they go to the car after it has slept for the night that they will see what I've been talking about.�
Jan 3, 2013
Brandonm Have we gotten word on what's causing cars to go into low power mode randomly? Or is that an open issue still?�
Jan 3, 2013
ckessel Update. Tesla is picking my car up to work on these two items today. I asked if he was going to work on the car at my work site or needed it in the service center. He said given the newness of the car most problems aren't really "standard" known issues yet and he'll need to take the car into the service center and bring it back when done. Like everyone at Tesla right now, it sounds like he's pulling insane hours, so while I'm sad my car came with issues I'm trying to give Jason (the Tesla tech) all the positive support possible.�
Jan 3, 2013
AnOutsider How far is the nearest center from you?�
Jan 3, 2013
ckessel I'm fortunate, it's within 10 miles of both my house and work. I'd guess folks like myself get to be the learning cars where Tesla figures out what's a common issue so they can arm Rangers with the right equipment when they service cars more distant.�
Jan 3, 2013
Robert.Boston Interesting to see the the blank-screen issue posted by @JimO S1837 HERE does appear to be identical to the blank-screen issue that I (and others) experienced. Temperatures in SoCal that morning were in the mid-40s, which is certainly not cold enough to freeze an LCD, but perhaps still cold enough to cause a minor gap in a connector? Which then expanded as the car cabin warmed up?
I have sent a complete write-up of my experience to the New England Service Manager, who promptly replied that he will write this up and escalate the problem to the Tesla engineering team. Until a fix is available, pre-warming the cabin seems to address the problem for me.�
Jan 3, 2013
Jgdixon Glad I started this dialogue, hope Tesla listens. I have the call log time thing for a while too.My last issue with the screens had the trip and odo not working. That is a legal concern too because of inaccurate mileage being recorded. A reboot also fixed that.�
Jan 3, 2013
stevezzzz Just to be clear, when I had an instance of the black-screen glitch it wasn't cold enough to freeze the LCD and it had been as cold or colder for a couple of weeks leading up to the (single) glitch. The screen wasn't dimmed, low-contrast, either (the way the nav display in my Acura RDX was dimmed when I drove it later the same day): it was black, not working, period. When it decided to come to life it went full-brightness and -contrast, instantly. I don't recall for certain if I saw the big Tesla T as it came up, as you normally do when powering up from sleep mode, but I don't think so.
As for whether we should be discussing these things openly on a public forum: I vote yes, absolutely. As long as we also post our attaboys alongside our whines, it'll all work out in the end. 3000 miles, and I love my S. Glitches are inevitable in a complex new product from a new company. The surprising thing is not how many glitches there are (not many, really), but how many things TM got absolutely right in their first release of a clean-sheet design.�
Jan 3, 2013
lolachampcar One vote for a buck or boost converter not wanting to start. Been there, fixed that�
Jan 3, 2013
Doug_G That is a definite possibility. Those things are terribly fussy.�
Jan 3, 2013
AnOutsider Posts debating speaking publicly about issues vs privately to Tesla have been moved to Posting issues publicly vs direct to Tesla�
Jan 3, 2013
ModelS1079 Technical issues - Mods please disperse as needed, feedback else welcome:
Two days in a row, the rear camera did not engage when car put into reverse. Touchscreen reboot fixed it both times. Concern is that it recurred after first reboot.
This morning my car FAILED TO SHUT OFF when I left the car, even if I locked it. Radio blaring, screens and climate control ON. Would never have noticed and arrived to a dead/very low battery 9 hours later, but the stereo was blasting so was obvious. Touchscreen reboot fixed it - same reboot to get the reverse camera engaging again.
I am on V4.1.�
Jan 3, 2013
efusco Had to do a reboot of the touch screen today too. Everything seemed normal, except the media wouldn't play. Just showed blank no matter what I tried to listen to and no audio. reboot fixed it.�
Jan 3, 2013
colinb I experienced similar issues today. Date-based bug?�
Jan 3, 2013
brianman Did you get the Flux Capacitor option?�
Jan 4, 2013
Brian H I propose a new acronym for the forums and Tesla world: RFI "Reboot Fixed It".
And a reminder about my previous proposal: NNIC "Not Needed In California".�
Jan 4, 2013
lolachampcar reboots???? is MS running embedded Windows? (yes, I know it is not)�
Jan 4, 2013
highfalutintodd First rule of tech troubleshooting: when in doubt, reboot. ;-)
Oddly, this actually makes me feel better about the car. If something goes wrong you might be able to actually do something about it. I've personally always been much more comfortable with electronics than mechanical bits and bobs.�
Jan 4, 2013
mknox My current car is running Windows Embedded Automotive v4 and it has never needed to re-boot. The Ford Sync system is also Microsoft (although a different flavor) and they seem reasonably stable too. It is curious to me that the Tesla systems seem to need so much manual re-booting by users.�
Jan 4, 2013
PattyChuck Technically, aren't they rebooting each time you turn off the car? I'd be curious to know if there would be nearly as many problems with the Tesla system if it shut down completely each time you turned off the car.�
Jan 4, 2013
mknox They might be, but if so there is no perceivable delay between turning the car on and the screens coming to life. I assume the Tesla system also re-boots if the car is set to shut down, does it not?�
Jan 4, 2013
Mike_Schlechter I saw someone post about software issues with bluetooth when the car is cold... I can officially say I've reproduced that bug. No idea why, but when I get to my car in the evenings (it is outside at a train station) and it has been VERY cold the last few days, I can't use bluetooth without a reboot. It makes no sense to me, but it is real.�
Jan 4, 2013
Doug_G Funny... I've had no bluetooth issues and my car has been pretty darn cold!�
Jan 4, 2013
ckessel This seems to be the case. I need to sit in the car with a running video and see if I can capture it. It was happening repeatedly as I drove Jason (Tesla service tech) back to his car after picking up my car from the service center. He said he hadn't seen that before, though the Model S was so new he noted there's a lot he hasn't seen yet.
Fortunately, none of the top bar buttons actually do anything other than pop up a window, so it's harmless even if annoying.
2nd update: charge port door was replaced. The tech doesn't know the core issue, the part goes back to Tesla HQ for analysis. New rear handle on order.
Interesting note: apparently any replaced part (or at least the charge port) requires a software update. Not a version roll, but something in the firmware has to know there's a new part. I didn't get the details, but I'd guess each car has it's own little database or config file specifying exactly which version of each piece of hardware that's software controlled.
Picked the car up after 9pm and he still hadn't eaten dinner. Bought him a beer and sandwich at the local pub and had a really good time talking. Tesla has gone from shipping 2500 roadsters over the course of years to ~2500 Model S in less than 3 months (my guess based on Tesla's goal, not a number from the tech). Hard to time ramping up staff for that kind of explosion and it's crazy long hours right now for everyone at Tesla. I hope Tesla ramps up soon though, the human body only has so much physical, emotional and mental endurance.
For the Portland, OR folks, the tech is a one man team right now. Have patience. They're interviewing, but right now he's the guy doing the repairs, building the shop and installing all the equipment, interviewing new candidates, answering the phone, etc.�
Jan 4, 2013
lolachampcar I ran into a sales guy at one of the stores the other day and I could tell he was running on empty. I'd spoken with him a few weeks back and he was happy and enthusiastic. He was a different guy when I saw him at the store so the big push is taking its toll.
Hang in there (Tesla) guys and girls. You have a tiger by the tail; it will be a fun ride.�
Jan 4, 2013
JRP3 You have the Canadian edition :wink:�
Jan 4, 2013
mknox You joke, but there could be a grain of truth to that. I would have to imagine the Canadian firmware releases are different than the US counterparts to address specific Canadian regulations. The example I can think of is that DRLs in Canada cannot be turned off or over-ridden, whereas in the US they can.�
Jan 4, 2013
Todd Burch Tesla's system is way....way....way more complex and involved. Doesn't reboot every time the car starts up, and is earlier in its life cycle. It doesn't surprise--or worry me--a bit. These things will get worked out.�
Jan 5, 2013
pilotSteve Yes he is working very very hard and extremely busy. He is more of a phone-call guy than an e-mail guy in my experience but he has taken good care of my since my delivery there at the (not yet open) service center. Hope he gets some help and a nice bonus!�
Jan 5, 2013
mknox While I also agree, I wonder how the average Mercedes or BMW owner moving to a brand new Model S are going to feel about it.�
Jan 5, 2013
jerry33 My thought is that by the time the average [car make here] owner starts getting their Model S most of the problems we're seeing will be already fixed. Of course, there may be some new problems, but I expect them to be comparatively minor.�
Jan 5, 2013
Todd Burch I've got 500 miles and almost a week on the car. Honestly, the only issues I've had are really minor. I'm actually quite impressed with the software stability so far.�
Jan 5, 2013
CanuckS#69 I'm around the same and haven't had any real issues. I've noted a few things that could be improved, but the software has been solid for me and I'm a picky software developer myself.�
Jan 5, 2013
dtich yep me too, bit more time even. surprisingly solid, and super well thought out. the car is very useable right out of the box. and i am finicky, detail oriented, super techy AND a (maybe not average exactly!) very loyal bmw owner: i've had 3 bmw's and one lexus in the last 12 years, the latest being the 2010 x5 (which i LOVED with all my heart, great f-ing car, honestly, top to bottom, but which i haven't looked at since the telsa got here.. poor girl.�
Jan 5, 2013
Zas I think those moving from a traditional ICE BMW / Mercedes to an all electric Tesla - are making a big change, and that they know that....They would likely be more understanding on minor issues and technicalities , knowing that they are early adapters to a new technology, and have made a bold choice to change from ICE vehicles.�
Jan 6, 2013
MikeK I had the center display fail to start when I returned to my car this evening. Naturally this happened as I was showing the car to friends who had never seen it before. I held down the scroll wheels on the steering wheel until I heard a little "click" through the speakers, which I guessed to be the center console rebooting. I let go, and shortly afterwards the screen started up with the usual Tesla "T" and behaved normally, except that I had to turn Bluetooth off and on again on my iPhone to get the media functionality to pair up. The phone functionality had paired properly, but not media.�
Jan 6, 2013
lolachampcar http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/12468-Issues-Tracking
please comment�
Jan 6, 2013
HFh That describes me. I also expect these issues to be more or less resolved by the time Tesla goes really wide with Gen III. Of course some issues will exist, but it isn't as if my past cars haven't been quirky....�
Jan 6, 2013
radinator Had an extremely weird thing happen to me last night as I was pulling into a parking garage last night - the passenger door opened while I was slowly driving to one of the EV spots. Fortunately no one was in the passenger seat, and the door did not open completely. I know there have been posts about doors/trunk being open when the car is parked, but I couldn't find any that happened during driving. Very scary. Currently running 4.1.�
Jan 6, 2013
mknox Back in the '80s, "everyone" felt that Japanese vehicles were so much better than N. American cars that I got sucked in and bought a Honda Accord. It was such a piece of crap, I got rid of it in 10 months. I had similar experiences with Toyota and eventually went back to N. American brands and have been happy(er) ever since.
My point is that if buyers of high end traditional ICE vehicles make the move, some may be "understanding" of issues and problems, but I'll bet that expectations of a quality and problem-free vehicle will be quite high, especially at the price point. My expectations around Japanese vehicles was quickly dashed.
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When you say "didn't open completely", was there a secondary catch holding it, or did it just not swing out due to the motion of the vehicle? If the latter, that is a huge problem. If you were turning left, the door could have flung wide open!�
Jan 6, 2013
radinator mknox, seemed like a secondary catch holding it. Because I did make a very slow left turn when I finally realized why the car was beeping at me, and the door did not swing open. And it was only that one door. Very strange and scary.�
Jan 6, 2013
GeekGirls It's now a week later and I thought it made sense to provide an update on the specific issues I raised:
I haven't noticed this particularly since the first day, which is interesting. I'm not sure what to attribute it to. I have been thoroughly enjoying music via Bluetooth, Slacker, and TuneIn. It's unspeakably wonderful to be able to listen to a favorite station even when out of range of their FM broadcast. The Folk station in Antarctica makes a great demo example, I'm delighted to be able to listen to San Francisco's KFOG for my entire commute, and some times of day BBC Radio One can be a great place to find new music. It beats the heck out of XM for my needs.
I haven't had any problems since the original slightly sticky adjustment. Both mirrors appear to move freely between their assigned positions for forward and reverse movement. I'm still planning to get Tesla Service to check on it, but there's zero urgency.
I believe this was entirely user error. I didn't realize that you don't just need the key in your possession - the car must be unlocked to release the charging cable, even when the button is depressed. I think they should change this behavior but it does appear to be working as designed.
It sounds like this will be corrected easily through firmware. Evidently it sees enough resistance break the air seal when moving to the "vent" position that it stops as a safety precaution. Adjusting the safety threshold for that particular motion should be straightforward.
The reading has been fine except while actively charging, so it's not likely to be an issue in practice.
It sounds like I'm not the only one irritated by this, and it's obviously correctable in firmware. I'll be a little surprised if this one isn't corrected this month as part of the expected update.
I was using Jack Mode to do something the software wasn't expected, and indeed something that isn't recommended. I've had no problems at all with my air suspension and I rely on it routinely to clear the top of our driveway.
All in all, I'm ecstatic about the initial experience of owning a Model S. At this point it seems obvious we're destined to be a two-Tesla household a few years down the road. The Model S replaced a Lexus RX450h. Now we just need a replacement for our Porsche Boxster S. I'll be eagerly awaiting more information on the forthcoming Model C and Model R!�
Jan 6, 2013
PureAmps I had to use the Tesla two-thumb salute to reboot my center screen for the fist time today.
My car had been parked in my garage (and plugged in) since New Year's Eve (about 5 days). When I backed the car out this afternoon I noticed that both display screens were stuck in night mode (this was at 2 pm), bluetooth would not connect to my phone, the temperature display read "---" instead of a number, the turn signal wouldn't make a sound when used, and the backup camera screen remained on after putting the car in drive (I don't drive with it on).
After rebooting, everything started working normally.
Not sure if this is related to cold weather problems others reported (my garage was not that cold, probably in the 40s most of the week), has something to do with extended parking, or just a random glitch, but I did report the problem to Tesla.�
Jan 6, 2013
dtich hey, thanks for posting this. i'm so glad when i hear good things instead of always issues here. and a bit of a lesson for new car recipients and prospective owners. it takes a minute (read: few days) to get used to a new car. a lot of the 'issues' people are having are just not understanding how things are supposed to work.. once you do, it makes a lot of sense. also, sometimes the first time you do something in a complex system like the model s there is a lag between controls, sensors and logic, give it a second to save settings, etc.. it'll be fine from then on. i have found that with things like seat positions and things, set it, give it one cycle to reset all its parameters and variables, and usually things are fine after that. beware of a hair trigger when reacting to behavior of the car. fwiw.
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wanna make a comment about this. i have found once or twice that if i jump in the car, flip into reverse and pull out and start driving immediately, one or more of the displays hasn't fully booted, or the reverse camera might not have come on (happened once), radio something.. things like that. but i find that if i don't stop, just keep driving, or (rare) stop and restart (off/on, not actual button-hold reset) everything comes up as normal after a second.
i attribute this to having the car set to power off displays after a timeout.. i think perhaps in these situations where i've literally jumped in the car and started driving within a couple seconds that all the systems haven't had a chance to initialize and once i'm in drive the car has shunted processing support to the actual drive systems and bypassed nav/radio/camera etc startup. this is surely something that will get better over time, but truthfully it's the right way for the car to function in this situation, and it's my fault (i feel) for not allowing the car to startup as needed. a few more seconds would probably have done the trick. and i don't fret about it. fact is, in the bmw (2010) if i jumped in and flipped right to reverse before things started up i would have similar things happen, nav take too long to init, radio not work right away, sometimes even the backup cam would come on a few seconds late... don't forget we are driving computers after all. they're only human....�
Jan 6, 2013
PureAmps This was more than a few second delay. I have all kinds of cars that take seconds to boot up all of their systems, this was different. My Acura's DVD-based navigation system is the worst. It always seems to take 10 times longer to boot when I'm in a hurry, running late and need to use the nav to type in an address.
In this case, I had driven the car a couple of miles and nothing improved. I was annoyed that I couldn't play music off my phone, so I finally tried to reboot the center screen (I only knew how thanks to reading the TMC forums!). Soon enough, I had my tunes going, stepped on the accelerator, and my Tesla grin returned.�
Jan 6, 2013
Todd Burch Tesla probably won't change this, as it's by design. When you lock the car, the plug locks into the car for a good reason: So idiots can't come along and unplug your car because they think it's funny.�
Jan 6, 2013
Zapped Strange I had a similar experience with about 100 km on the car, but I had a passenger. At first I assume he hadn't quite closed the door but later realized that there was the sound of the electric latch. I was driving in a straight line, hit about 70 kph ( 40mph ). Slowed down immediately and stopped the car, closed the door... never happened again.
I've owned VW, Toyota, Honda, Mercerdes and now BWM. I'm fortunate to be able to still own the BMW when I need it.
Every vehicle I've driven has had some kind of issues. (The engine on my 86 VW golf with automatic transmission would rev up when I was trying to brake to a stop ... that was bad)
For me driving the TESLA Model S is worth working through some of the quirks.
MODEL S is a fantastic technically amazing performance car.
People, who have never heard of TESLA, are amazed that an electric car can kick a$$�
Jan 6, 2013
mknox I'm curious to know if we believe this is a hardware or software issue. My impression of the Model S door handles is that it takes too little effort to open the door. My current ICE uses a similar solenoid-type system to unlatch the doors, but the door handle travel is roughly equivalent to the travel on a regular mechanically latched door before the solenoid is activated. I wonder (worry?) if the switch in the handle is just too sensitive and activates the software too easily. (Hit a pothole and the mechanism "jiggles" enough to activate the system???).�
Jan 6, 2013
GeekGirls I understand, but I do have the key. Am I really not in close enough proximity for the car to detect it? I back into my garage. It seems pedantic to insist that I walk up to my door and then backtrack to remove the charger.�
Jan 6, 2013
strider Well, assuming you have the tech package the car should detect the fob and unlock. However the antenna must be in the front as the range in front is quite good while at the rear not so much. In our case we park nose in so walk past the car to the charge port and all is well. I have noticed if I'm in a parking lot and walk up to the rear of the car and hit the trunk button above the license plate it sometimes takes an extra push or two for it to realize I have the fob and open the trunk. Hopefully something they can tweak in future models (by maybe moving the antenna) and possibly retrofit in ours.
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I can see how like in Cinergi's case the car was parked and handles were "out" that it could detect a phantom hand and unlatch but when driving down the road the handles are "in" and shouldn't register pressure to open the door. Surely there is some logic in there somewhere. I also wonder if those who have had this happen while driving have the auto-lock feature enabled so the doors lock when you drive?�
Jan 6, 2013
brianman Old (version) data, but posting it for general information:
v1.17.50
- Vehicle unattended for 22 days while plugged into 14-50R receptable. Had at least one brownout during the period but apparently no blackouts > 2 hours (judging by my microwave at "RESET" but my computers -- with UPS -- still on).
- Vehicle greeted me with a 12V warning, 225 miles of rated range, and an update pending.
- Update is installing now.
�
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