Nov 27, 2010
Doug_G Might be good to compare notes on winter driving in the Roadster.
I wasn't planning on getting winter tires for my Roadster; figured I wouldn't want to drive it in the fairly nasty Ottawa winter. Maybe take it out on nice days. Today the less-traveled roads are snow covered, so I figured I'd take the SUV. Unfortunately the SUV's battery is apparently getting old; when I stopped for gas I couldn't start it again. So I got a boost and went home to get the Tesla.
Suffice it to say I was quite pleasantly surprised by how well it did on (thin) snow and ice, especially considering the summer tires. If I pressed the throttle the TC light would illuminate and the car would gently accelerate. I tried flooring it and the exact same thing happened. If I lifted off the TC light would come on again, and it would decelerate steadily. No muss, no fuss. Pretty impressive, actually.
I didn't seem to have any trouble cornering either. Of course I was driving it gently around the corners, as I'm always cautious on snow in any car.
My only real concern is deep snow. Just backing out I bottomed out on the tiny snowbank (and I mean tiny) at the end of the driveway. It didn't affect the car except for making a raspy sound. But I wonder how the car would handle a major snowfall even if it had snow tires.
As for the SUV I was able to stop in at Canadian Tire and buy a new battery for it. Seemed odd lifting a lead-acid car battery into the back of the Telsa...�
Nov 28, 2010
Jaff Thanks for the winter driving notes Doug...they are much appreciated!
I agree with your fears about "deeper snow" and how the Roadster will perform (plough)...this does worry me.�
Nov 28, 2010
Doug_G Yes, that's a concern. I'm wondering how the diffuser will hold up. The snow plows here frequently leave snowbanks across road entrances, especially since they do the bus routes first and just plow straight across the side streets. Even if other cars have been through it your bottom is pretty low.
Also what happens if the snow gets more than 6 inches deep? If you plow into that, will the wheels get lifted off the road? Snow tires won't matter if they're not touching the ground. Even on lighter snowstorms you will get deeper drifts here and there, so you might get a surprise.�
Nov 28, 2010
Zythryn This is my first winter driving the Tesla.
We have had one snowstorm so far (Minnesota). My wife and I were eager to try snow driving, so in the middle of the snowstorm we took the Tesla out for a test.
When we started out we had just over 4 inches of virgin snow. We live in suburbia, and no plows had yet been through the neighborhood streets, although some vehicles had, so you had a mix of chopped up snow and virgin snow.
We do have the winter tires.
No issues with traction. I was actually quite surprised at how good the traction system was, no sliding whatsoever.
If the traction light had not come on I would not have known it was on.
We did a number of errands an returned a couple hours later.
Snow debri between lanes on streets that had been plowed posed no issues. You could on occasion hear chunks of snow hitting the bottom panels.
In our neighborhood the streets were still not plowed and we were up around 6 inches of snow. Temp was near freezing so the snow was very wet and clumped easily. In the unplowed backstreets we did run into an issue of snow getting jammed up into and sticking in the wheel wells to the point where the wheels were actually difficult to turn.
I have not experienced this at any other time. I am hoping to get a chance to test it in 6 inches of dry snow and will report back.
On plowed streets, the Tesla handled better than any other car I have driven in the snow.�
Nov 28, 2010
stenkb I have had my Pirelli winter tires on for a few days now and thought I would share how the Roadster handles winter in Lethbridge, Alberta.
The tires have great grip - and the traction control works very well with the Roadster - the tires don't spin! (unless I turn off the traction control and I have fun making donuts for a bit!)
Compared to the only other sports car I drove in winter - a BMW - the tesla handles better, grips better, and feels solid.
If the snow pile between the tires gets too high - you do become a plow unfortunately - but for me all main roads are fine (where the snow has been packed a bit) - in residential streets where snow does not get cleared I get to listen to the snow rubbing against the bottom of the car - but no real problem.
I am going to see if I can get more 3M film added in the door sills to protect the paint from sand, rocks, snow where it enters.
Here's a few pics to share:�
Nov 28, 2010
Doug_G Great feedback Zythryn and Kevin. How did you find it for cornering on slippery surfaces?�
Nov 28, 2010
Zythryn There was some sliding of the front wheels if I took turns too quickly. Just of a few inches. I suspect that was because of the RWD as I had always driven FWD or AWD in snow prior to the Roadster.
As I got used to it, my driving adjusted to it and I noticed it less and less.
The funnest part was at a stop light next to a big AWD SUV. Light turns green, I effortlessly start and leave the SUV spinning its wheels.
Smart driving wins over dumb driving every time, but excellent traction control sure does help
�
Nov 28, 2010
Jaff Thanks for the input guys...so far, I'm really liking what I'm hearing!
The 3M paint armour in additional areas sounds like a good idea Kevin...is that a DIY project, or do you need a shop to do the work?�
Nov 28, 2010
stenkb Typically shops that do vehicle graphics/wraps can also do the paint armour. I will make a few calls this week and see what the cost would be to have it done. Will update.�
Nov 28, 2010
Jaff Thanks Kevin, I didn't know this.
We have a shop in town that does wraps...I'll give them a shout.
�
Nov 30, 2010
stenkb A local shop here quoted $125 to add paint armor to both doors. Gonna get it done soon..�
Dec 1, 2010
Jaff Kevin, is that for the lower part of the doors + the indentations below the doors / the exposed sill as well?�
Dec 1, 2010
ljbad4life http://www.allcarselectric.com/blog/1052024_electric-cars-cant-handle-cold-weather-myth-bustedI found this write up about the 2.5 roadster in the blizzard hitting the UK right now. I know it's been covered before, but I don't think anyone has gone 450 miles in a roadster and wrote about it. It seems that the trunk lock gets frozen, which I have read on the boards here.�
Dec 1, 2010
Jaff Good and a very positive read...I guess it might be a good idea to keep a small container of lock de-icer in the glove box...Thanks for posting!�
Dec 1, 2010
Doug_G What lock? The mechanism is internal.�
Dec 1, 2010
stenkb Yes it includes all that - I didn't even think about the bottom of the door itself - I will see if they can get that as well (I've never looked under the door to see if it gets hit there) - they are adding the Paint Armor tomorrow.�
Dec 1, 2010
Jaff :redface: There is no manual override for the trunk?...(I don't have my Roadster yet) I didn't know this...I wonder why?...redundancy is a good thing...
�
Dec 1, 2010
tdevince Good article, it mentions that the heater keeps the cabin nice and warm. I've found the heater does indeed keep the cabin warm at 25F outside (todays temps), but my feet get cold. I changed the air flow so that is completely downward and I don't seem to get a lot of airflow in that direction. Is there a manual damper down there that I need to adjust? Has anyone else found themselves with cold feet in a Roadster 2.5?�
Dec 1, 2010
ljbad4life I've never owned or rode in a car that kept my feet warm. So maybe I'm just used to it I guess!�
Dec 1, 2010
cinergi I'm noticing a lack of floor heat for me, though not for my passenger. I remember reading a thread, probably in here somewhere, that the heating ducts might be designed to favor a car with the driver's side on the right and that this person did something to adjust it. I just may do it because at 25 deg. F it was noticeable -- I hate to think how bad it'll be when it gets to 0 degrees or less here.�
Dec 1, 2010
Doug_G There is, actually, although I've never used it. But if the fob and interior switch won't open it, then the mechanism is frozen internally and spraying de-icer into the key slot won't do anything.
Actually I just went out and tried to open the trunk with the key... it didn't work. Key turned but nothing happened. Curious.�
Dec 1, 2010
Jaff The Ottawa cold got to it already, eh? :wink::tongue:
�
Dec 1, 2010
Jaff With some performance cars, you want calf-skin driving gloves...sounds like with the Roadster, we'll need a pair of Kamiks :biggrin:
(http://www.kamik.com/GenfootWeb/servlet/webProductDisplay.webProductDisplaySrv?curCatalog=2010&curWebGroup=W10MENS_SUMMIT&curSeason=WINTER2010 )
�
Dec 1, 2010
cinergi Interesting. Mine didn't work one really cold morning several weeks ago. It didn't make ANY noise like it was even trying. The key worked, however.
I wonder if some well-applied waterproof grease would resolve the issue. If it happens to me again I'll try to investigate more into what's going on.�
Dec 1, 2010
Alan I am surprised they key worked. As far as I know the keyfob, key in the rear light cluster and button in the cabin all do the same thing - trigger the solenoid that opens the catches for the trunk, I dont think the key does anything mechanical - happy to be corrected.
I have not been able to open my trunk all week, no noise of a mechanism trying to work - bit of a problem as my mobile charging lead and warm winter jacket are inside. I have been advised to run warm water around the rear light cluster but thats not worked so far.
Planning to make some space in the garage today for the Tesla so it can properly thaw out.�
Dec 2, 2010
AndrewBissell I also have terrible trouble keeping my feet warm in the Roadster. I have a right-hand drive, and agree that the ducts seem to favour the other side.
I also find that at speed even with all vents closed there is a lot of airflow from outside that I assume arises either from the dampers not closing fully, or a poorly sealed bulkhead. This is due to be looked at under warranty service soon.
Re: Nikki's weekend, I was surprised that with heated seats and cabin heat and 70 mph driving in the mix her Wh/mile were as low as 311. Maybe the 2.5 is more efficient with it's heating?�
Dec 2, 2010
Alan When its really cold outside try putting the heating on full (obvious) and the air on recirculate. Seems to pump out hotter air.�
Dec 2, 2010
AndrewBissell Oh I do all of that, trust me! Never enough though!�
Dec 2, 2010
Fuzzylogic Here's why:
The arrow points to the air duct. It's on the passengers side.
And just points to the drivers side. Maybe extending it will do the trick...�
Dec 2, 2010
Doug_G :tongue: Actually, I don't think so. The temperature was above freezing, it was in my garage, and the fob worked. I'll have to get Tesla to check it when the car goes in for the annual.�
Dec 2, 2010
Doug_G Here in Ottawa the winters are cold, but at least it's a wet cold. :tongue: Using recirculation usually results in a complete and nearly instantaneous fog-up of the windows. Unfortunately in these parts that button is pretty much only useful when the A/C is running.�
Dec 2, 2010
mpt Fixed my heater duct here: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/3579-Living-with-a-Tesla-Roadster?p=40023&viewfull=1#post40023
I blocked the passenger side with some silver metal HVAC pipe tape (all I had to hand). It works a treat pushing air about 50/50 between passenger and driver - Set the air direction control to about 11 o'clock - toasty.�
Dec 2, 2010
AndrewBissell Fuzzylogic & Michael - thanks!�
Dec 2, 2010
dsm363 What's this winter thing you're talking about? =)
I grew up in the midwest and only recently moved south. I have to say that once you live someplace where it only gets down to 40 degrees F in the winter, it's tough to go back north. I'm glad you guys are able to drive the Roadster in winter conditions proving that the car can handle anything.�
Dec 2, 2010
Doug_G It's hard to go much further south than 42 degrees without leaving my country. :frown:�
Dec 2, 2010
stenkb Just had my Paint armout added to the inside door sills where all the rocks, dirt, snow, etc accumulate and scratch the paint. I definitely recommend doing the same - only cost $130.00!!
Even in summer I noticed when it rained there was sand, small rocks that splash in the door and scratch the paint.
I would add pics but you can't see the Paint Armour really.....here it is also called rock guard.....�
Dec 2, 2010
Jaff So you took a page from the Red Green handbook (duct tape can fix anything) then :biggrin: ...good thinking! :wink:
�
Dec 2, 2010
dsm363 I love it up in Canada too. The scenery and nature is amazing so there's advantages to living everywhere I guess. The summers down here make you feel like you're melting.�
Dec 2, 2010
Jaff Good stuff Kevin!...I'm going to get this done as soon as my Roadster arrives!
�
Dec 3, 2010
Kevin Sharpe Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield intends to write another article and is looking for EV's that are used in very cold environments (apparently our -3 Deg C is not cold enough for some people). If you have a suitable car can I suggest that you contact her?�
Dec 3, 2010
Kevin Sharpe this Tesla looks happy in the cold... http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=5720105&id=18790602800�
Dec 3, 2010
tdevince I did mpt's heater duct modification this morning. It was quite an improvement on the drivers side!�
Dec 4, 2010
Doug_G So I just hand washed my car; first time I've ever done that in December. The temperature was -3C. Rolled it out of the garage and started washing normally. At first is was going pretty normally, as the car was a little warm. But then the driveway began getting a little slippery, and icicles started forming on the car. Makes it kinda hard to rinse when there are soapsicles all over it. Wasn't too bad, although the car was more icy than wet when I was done.
I've got it back in the garage now, powered on with the hot air blower thawing out the windshield. At least I won't get CO poisoning...�
Dec 5, 2010
mpt Ah, dedication in the face of adversity. Been there, done that, fallen on my arse�
Dec 5, 2010
PaulM Hey Doug, I wash my car IN my garage which never goes below freezing. Your free to come over if you like, although by the time you get it back to your place it will be dirty again. Such is winters in Ottawa. Sometimes it seems like there's more salt than snow on the roads.�
Dec 6, 2010
Alan Its still below freezing in the UK at the moment (-5C / 23F this morning).
This morning I noticed something new,the bar-graph for battery temp was set to the coldest position as you would expect, but the text battery was in yellow. It went white after driving a few miles, and a few miles later regen was enabled again.
Is the yellow text a warning - any idea what temperature it refers to?�
Dec 6, 2010
cinergi Mine wouldn't open again this morning (23 degrees F). Key also didn't work. I'd played with it the other day to get a feel for the key and it felt somewhat mechanical, but it was hard to tell. Today, no noise from using the buttons, and turning the key (with a fair amount of pressure) didn't do anything; I couldn't tell if I was pushing up against a frozen lock or if it just wasn't activating something it's supposed to. After driving into work (30 minutes), it still won't open.
My car may visit Tesla in NY so maybe it'll be cold enough for them to reproduce and fix the problem.�
Dec 6, 2010
stenkb We just went through a stretch for 2 weeks of daytime highs of -20 Celcius - that cold enough for ya?�
Dec 6, 2010
Kevin Sharpe sure... are you driving an EV in this?�
Dec 6, 2010
stenkb I drove my Roadster in -20 weather - no problems. See pics I posted earlier in this thread of the Roadster in the snow!�
Dec 6, 2010
Doug_G Right now it's clean, and it's probably going to stay in the garage for a while. I might take it out if we get some good weather (e.g. dry roads), but for now it's in storage mode.�
Dec 6, 2010
PaulM Probably best although I imagine it will be tough going back to the ICE age...�
Dec 6, 2010
Doug_G Yeah, it is. I hadn't bought gas for months. And the Model S is still at least 1.5 years away. Will definitely get snow tires for that one.�
Dec 7, 2010
Jehuda Hi : I am located in Toronto and we had around 6 cm of snow and it is around -10. I installed four Hankook snows and my roadster handles fine and especially up steep icy hills without spinning. However the slush does get in the door sills. Regards Mitch�
Dec 7, 2010
Jaff Once my Roadster arrives (hopefully next week), I'm going to get the additional armour coat applied (as per Kevin's pictures) to the door sills...I'm sure this will help make it easier to clean off the sills without scratching the paint.�
Dec 8, 2010
stenkb Here's more reason to get the paint armour.....I am very glad I had it added - the following pics don't bother me too much anymore now that it is protected.....
This is what my car looks like in wet weather - snow melting away and all the road debris lands in the door sills...�
Dec 8, 2010
Jaff All the more reason to add armour to the door sills...thanks for the additional pics Kevin!�
Dec 10, 2010
zack Looks like tonight and tomorrow are going to be a serious test for the Tesla in severe Minnesota weather! Up to two feet of snow predicted? Gahhh!�
Dec 10, 2010
zack I intended my post above to be a reply to this post.�
Dec 11, 2010
cinergi It's above freezing today. I tried opening the trunk; it sounded like it was trying (some solenoid clicking noises) but it wouldn't open. Key didn't work, either.
After driving about 1-2 miles to my destination (short trip!), I tried again, figuring the bumps and chassis flex may help loosen it up -- and indeed, it opened! I took that opportunity not only to take everyting out of the trunk, but to familiarize myself with the mechanism more. I took a video of what happens when I turn the key; it's indeed mechanical, and the buttons simply activate a solenoid that does the same thing the key does -- which is to move a couple of cables.
Video:�
Dec 12, 2010
mpt I had sticky latches for the first year; they replaced one (they're made by Ford) but over time they've actually improved a little. I find that repeatedly pressing release over and over makes them work reliably.
I wonder if it's all down to the trunk lid alignment.�
Dec 13, 2010
Doug_G Here's an interesting but minor firmware quirk. When the really bad weather hit, I put the car in storage mode, figuring I wouldn't be driving it for a while (summer tires). But we had a really nice day and the roads were dry, and the car still had plenty of charge, so I decided to take it out for a spin. While driving it, the touch screen battery gauge display showed "Storage" mode. Curious. But when I parked and plugged it back in it reverted to Standard charge.
I suppose it is consistent for it to default back to Standard; after all it does that in Performance mode. But showing Storage mode while you're driving doesn't make any sense, and is misleading because you think it'll stay that way when you plug it in. So be sure to remember to manually set it back to Storage mode.
Oh and the weather went to pot again the next day. Freezing rain complete with power outages.�
Dec 14, 2010
cinergi Quick cold temp observations:
With below 0C temps, my range (and obviously whpm) have been heavily impacted. Doing my commute, I generally have 150-155 estimated miles (full standard charge) when it's warm enough that I don't need the heat or it's barely used. With temps that are -5 and below, I'm making generous use of heat and my range has dropped to 110. Instead of 25% battery per day (32 miles), I'm using more like 35%. Instead of 250-275 whpm, I'm seeing 350+
When it's -10C or colder, the cabin heat is starting to become insufficient; it's on full blast the entire 16 miles, eating up 3.5KW the entire time. It'll be interesting to see how things go when it's -15 and colder (I suspect I've bottomed out the range -- it'll just be a question of can I get cabin temp comfortable or not). There's a LOT of cold air coming from more than just the window area. The Roadster cabin isn't insulated enough -- I hope the Model S will be because heating that much more air mass in these temps is going to require much better insulation if your 160 mile range isn't going to be vaporized when it's -10C out.
The standard stock tires are doing much better than I'd anticipated. They've lost a little grip, but not that much. Much different than the stock summer tires that came with my STi (which turn into ice skates at these temperatures).�
Dec 14, 2010
Doug_G If you're losing 40 miles of range with 3.5 kW of heater usage, that would imply your commute takes almost 3 hours? Maye some of that power is going somewhere else, or the battery efficiency is reduced?
I agree with your observation, though. I've only had the car out once at -10C, and the estimated range definitely was lower than I would have expected. I haven't had a chance to double-check it, because I'm not driving the Tesla when there's significant snow on the road (as you say, the stock tires are better than one might think, but I'm not gonna push it).
I also concur about the cabin heater barely being sufficient at -10C. We'll have to see how well it does at -20C.�
Dec 14, 2010
Doug_G Tesla promised to fix this next time they see the car. Great service... I never even mentioned the problem to them.�
Dec 15, 2010
Jaff Ben & Doug...just curious, the cabin temp is less than comfortable with the cabin heater blasting and the seat heaters on?�
Dec 15, 2010
Lancelac I have several interesting comparisons of my own this winter. I live in Chicago so the temps are very cold (between -30F and 25F), but the snow doesn't really accumulate all that much, we never have more than 4-6 inches on the ground at one time. Last year, I drove the Roadster almost every day, with the soft top and Sport tires. Overall I thought it worked amazingly well. I was reasonably careful, but not once did the car ever get out of control. I did turn off TC a few times to get through some deep snow in alleyways, etc. As for the the heating, I thought it was adequate, but not stellar. The heated seats make me sweat if I use them for more than 15 min at a time, no matter what the temp.
This year, things are different as I now use my hardtop and switched to winter tires. In the small sample I've had (two weeks of cold temps and medium snow), I've seen a huge improvement. The car handles better than any car I've ever owned in the snow, including a AWD 3-series BMW I owned. I tried pretty hard this past weekend to push it a few times and still couldn't really get a decent skid going. I do find that the car fogs up inside, and it is pretty hard to get rid of no matter what I do. Also, it could use heated mirrors as well. Those things are more pronounced when you are in a car with limited visibility to begin with. The cabin temp is now much higher with hardtop. I barely use the heater at all after an initial blast.
Overall, I am very pleased with the performance in winter, which works out well for me since I sold my 2nd car this summer...�
Dec 15, 2010
Doug_G Yes, they were on low. High gets your butt too warm.
I'd say the cabin was cool, but not uncomfortably so. Our feet were a little colder than we'd like. The thing is, temperatures here routinely get 10C colder than that in Jan/Feb.�
Dec 15, 2010
mpt I'm finding that the car feels warmer now with the sound-insulation and wind noise fix. Air leaking in/out?
It might be my internal justification of the cost but, a trip to NYC this morning -8c, heat on full, fan on 2, recirc on. I was wearing a lightweight shirt but the car became too warm after 15 mins so I turned down to 3 o'clock until the sun came up and then I backed down to 2 o'clock.
I have a DIY hardtop and I found the lower air-vent fix to be essential if you're ever to communicate with your toes in winter.�
Dec 15, 2010
Jaff Thanks for the input Doug...I might get off easy as I'm sure you are regularily 10 + degrees colder in Ottawa (winter time) than I am here in Niagara.
�
Dec 15, 2010
ljbad4life I think you bring up a very note worthy point that seemingly no one has mentioned. The difference between hard top and soft top effects on heating.
are the people that are having issues with subpar heating still driving with a soft top in the winter?
as a side note and totally off topic, I won the battle with my building management to stall a charger in the indoor parking lot. So now I'm on the fence between the roadster or waiting for a model s.�
Dec 15, 2010
Jaff Thanks for the input Lancelac...ijbad4life, you bring up an interesting point with the soft top / hard top...for some reason, I thought the hard top had no headliner in it (just bare CF) and thus would have little insulation value...the only thing I can thing of is that I mixed it up with an after-market pic of a Lotus hard top that was bare CF. :redface:
(I didn't order a hard top because of this...I helped Prime Mover install his soft top at the Toronto EV show & figured that the material used in the soft top would have higher insulation values than the bare hard top.) :redface::frown:
I guess I might have to order one...doh!!!
BTW lj, congrats on winning your battle...I'd go with the Roadster now rather than wait..it's just too damn much fun to drive!:biggrin:�
Dec 15, 2010
mpt I ended up painting my aftermarket hardtop inside the same colour as the car (silver), it was bare. Then, I filled it with expanding foam to reduce noise and add insulation. It now feels warm to the touch when the car is warmed up.
I tried adding a lining ala TM but that fell off in summer.�
Dec 15, 2010
Jaff Michael, how come your hard top didn't come with a liner then?...was that added as an upgrade for the 2.5's ?�
Dec 15, 2010
Doug_G If you look at my photo to the left, you'll see it has a hardtop...�
Dec 15, 2010
Jaff Does your hard top have a liner in it Doug?
�
Dec 15, 2010
mpt I did my own here: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/2377-alternative-carbon-fiber-hardtops?p=39937&viewfull=1#post39937
The TM hardtop has a layer of that bristly paint on the inside; it does look very well finished.�
Dec 15, 2010
ljbad4life well you could have taken the hardtop off for the summer, but never put it back on�
Dec 15, 2010
Jaff Thanks for the info Michael...does the Lotus hardtop fit the Roadster as well as the TM stock hardtops?�
Dec 15, 2010
cinergi Well that's 40 miles loss on the estimated range at full, not my actual drive (so 25% less). My whpm goes up by at least 100, part of which is lack of regen (my 30 mile average is now at 380). I do wonder if there's another factor, but heat + no regen is probably most of it.�
Dec 15, 2010
cinergi Yes. And I tend to leave the fan on 2 instead of 3 because at 3, the air is flowing too fast for it to come out as warm as I'd like it.�
Dec 15, 2010
Doug_G No, I usually have the hard top on unless I'm planning to drive with the top off.
The hard top has some sort of felt-like layer attached to the bottom. I can't tell what is underneath it.�
Dec 16, 2010
mpt The TM hardtop goes over the roll bar and has an integrated look to all aspects in and out; the Lotus one fits perfectly and doesn't raise the height of the roof line. I like mine because it keeps the lines low IMO. It was a project to install though. Its installation pre-dated availability of the TM solution for me. It was a bit cheaper too.�
Dec 16, 2010
Jaff Therein lies the problem (for me) Michael...as far as real projects like this go, I'm the guy with extremely limited skills that sets out to fix a flat tire buts ends up setting the car on fire...:redface::biggrin::wink:
�
Dec 16, 2010
Doug_G Don't do that... the last thing we need is another EV fire!!!�
Dec 20, 2010
JRod0802 Ben,
Did you take your Roadster out today? How did it perform in the snow? I was slipping all over the place on my way home from work today (in my rwd Mustang GT).�
Dec 20, 2010
cinergi It just went down to NY on a trailer for service, so I won't have a chance to drive it in this snow.
In general, one of the best things you can do for a car is winter tires. It's the ONLY thing between the car and the road, so it's where you can effect the most change. It's amazing how much better even the cheapest snow tires are compared to the best all-season tires when driving in snow.�
Dec 20, 2010
JRod0802 You caught me... I still haven't put on my snow tires. I try to wait it out as long as possible. I guess this time I waited a bit too long
As for the Roadster, once you get it back I'd still love to hear how it performs in a real Boston winter. Somehow I feel more reassured when the review is done in my area...�
Jan 1, 2011
cinergi Drove my Roadster in about 1.5" of mushy soft snow (about the worst kind of traction besides ice) yesterday with my snow tires for the first time. While it didn't grab and go like my AWD with snow tires (obviously), it had no trouble going uphill in it. What was jaw-droppingly amazing about the experience was the traction control. Flooring it or giving it partial throttle had no effect -- it was giving exactly as much torque as it could without slipping. It was an undetectable experience (aside from not going as fast as I would on dry road). In an ICE car with TC, you'd feel it slip, pull back, give more, slip, pull back, repeat. Absolutely amazing how well the Roadster controlled the power output.�
Jan 5, 2011
Doug_G With the crappy winter weather I've been mostly keeping my Roadster safe in my garage, in Storage mode. I've driven it on the occasional day when the roads were dry.
Judging by the gradual reduction in the range display in storage mode, it is dropping less than 500 Wh per day. Of course the garage is cool so no battery temperature management is needed. Either the touch screen and processor take 20 watts, or there is some internal battery leakage...? At this rate, it would take a couple of months to get to half full. It will probably consume less than a full charge worth of electricity while sitting idle this winter. A full charge is about $7 worth of electricity, so storage costs are negligible.
I was curious about what happens at 1am when the car is scheduled to charge, so one night I watched. At 1am the car came to life with a beep-beep from the touch screen. The HPC contactors didn't switch, but the fluid circulation pump started, the car made a bunch of clicks as if it were cycling the contactors, and then it shut down again, saying "Charge Completed". The sequence took less than 10 seconds. Not sure why this happens; either it's lazy firmware programming or it needs to do run some checks on the systems, or something...�
Jan 5, 2011
Jaff I look forward to these conditions Ben...finally, tomorrow, we're supposed to get about 5 cm of snow...haven't had any since my vehicle was delivered!
And yes, I agree with you...the fan power on setting #3 "outblows" the heater. :frown:
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Jan 5, 2011
mpt I've recently taken to setting the centre vents to almost off; basically pushed until there's a little resistance. This has the effect of pushing a little more air to the sides and around rather than into the occupants. Feels more warm & cosy IMO.�
Jan 5, 2011
kgb After having the car 2 1/2 months, I thought that'd I'd update what winter performance is like here: Houston, Texas.
The car runs just like it did in the fall. In fact, since the temperature drops down to the 50's at night, it is finally cool enough to take the top off. :wink:
On a more serious note, I will start a summer performance thread when the temperatures get over 100.�
Jan 5, 2011
Jaff Can't wait to read it! :biggrin::wink:
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Jan 5, 2011
Jaff I've closed my center vents completely Michael...but the heater just doesn't provide much heat...the fan is performing well though...
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Jan 5, 2011
Doug_G Uh... you sure you're qualified to post in this thread? :tongue::tongue::tongue:�
Jan 7, 2011
Jaff Finally got about 2 inches of snow last night...Roadster performed very well under these conditions...traction control works very nicely!
What impressed me the most was the "road feel"...the vehicle feels solid as a rock on hard packed snow...Hankook snows providing good traction...very pleased with the results...the Roadster is definately an all season car imo! :smile:�
Jan 7, 2011
Doug_G What I really want to know is... How does it do in 12 inches of snow?�
Jan 7, 2011
mpt Efficiency goes up; it slides like a toboggan though, handling is poor when the wheels are off the ground.�
Jan 7, 2011
Alan Whilst not had the chance to toboggan in the car yet, your point about efficiency going up is a good one. There has been lots of talk about range in electric cars going down when its cold. I find in the Tesla it goes up, the reason is that the wet icy conditions makes you drive more carefully so you use less wh per mile - this more than makes up for any extra use of the heating etc.�
Jan 12, 2011
cinergi Lots of snow for us today ... it's still snowing so I haven't dug out yet nor driven in it but here's a sneak peak
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Jan 12, 2011
Jaff We got about 5" of snow last night...drive to work today was fine except that I couldn't get off the road into the laneway to my regular parking spot...the Town plow had gone by and deposited a formidable wall of snow across the entrance way... :frown:�
Jan 12, 2011
Doug_G I hope you didn't park it on the street. The next snow plow operator will think your Arctic White car is a snowbank.�
Jan 12, 2011
Jaff Not a chance Doug...kept in the garage (charging) at night ..today, I had to pull into the municipal lot as opposed to the space behind my office...interesting note...I watched a Ford Fusion & Nissan Sentra get stuck trying to breach the "Great (Snow) Wall of Grimsby" after I had tried...they didn't make it either! :biggrin:�
Jan 12, 2011
doug Hope that was with the hardtop. I wonder how much mass that soft top could hold.�
Jan 12, 2011
cinergi Soft top. Light fluffy snow tho it was pressing down more than I expected. The support bars were clearly visible thru the fabric. Heavy wet snow should definitely be cleared off the soft top early and frequently. Or hard top. I will use the cover the next time -- the car is not designed to take a storm like this as it gets everywhere -- most disturbingly the two front fans are completely clogged with snow. I cleared out what I could but I fear what would happen if they tried to turn on. Prolly overheat or burn out the motors.
The wiper fluid reservoir is frozen nearly solid -- ridiculous for 26F weather. I can't use wiper fluid at all right now which is critical after snowstorm due to all the salt drying up on the windshield. I've borrowed a friends garage to thaw it out ...�
Jan 12, 2011
cinergi Posted a video of me driving this evening in the videos section...
Plus a couple more pictures (oh, and yes, that's my 120 charging cable still connected -- turns out that's not a great idea as snow got in there everywhere and it was difficult to properly clean out).
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Jan 13, 2011
Jaff I'm glad you mentioned the wiper fluid reservoir Ben...I'm having trouble with mine (and my car is plugged in in a semi-insulated garage (out of the elements) at night.
At first I thought it was the washer jets were frozen over...I cleared them with a pin, but still not working.
Any chance the Menlo Park folks are using a lightweight washer fluid or cutting it with water?...or might it be that the reservoir is too exposed to the weather?�
Jan 13, 2011
Doug_G Mine froze up once, but I refilled it with proper antifreeze washer fluid and that seemed to clear it. Caveat: I haven't had it out in truly cold weather yet (only -10c).�
Jan 13, 2011
stenkb Had to fill mine up with proper washer fluid (-40C) as well - I'm sure the Cali folks fill it up with their local antifreeze (water) - they don't seem to realize at times that not everyone lives in a year round warm climate.....�
Jan 13, 2011
Jaff I think that's it Doug...they're using California winter washer fluid (tonic water + a shot of vodka, a dash of bitters & a squeeze of lime :wink
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Jan 13, 2011
Doug_G Tesla shouldn't be shipping Roadsters to Canada (or northern states) with washer fluid rated less than -40C. Even if they ship in the summer; mine arrived in July but had lots left by December. If the water was to freeze solid it would do damage.
We've been pretty lucky not to have any serious cold yet this winter.�
Jan 13, 2011
cinergi Yeah I'm kinda wondering if my system's damaged now or not... The car has been parked in -15C this winter.
It's already down to -5C here (5:40 PM local time -- still at work) so I'm not sure it's been able to thaw out in my friend's garage. I'll find out tonight and report back any news as soon as it's thawed out and I've replaced the fluid.
It is indeed ridiculous to ship it with fluid that freezes nearly solid at -5C.�
Jan 13, 2011
cinergi So while there was still a Huge Chunk of Frozen Material (HCFM) in the resevoir, the system had warmed up enough for me to run it dry and leave the HCFM there. I then ran through 1-2 liters of hot water (letting it sit for a while here and there) through, and then filled it with RainX fluid (good to -32C) and ran that through until I was clearly spraying the orange (how appropriate!) fluid. All's well now!�
Jan 18, 2011
cinergi Another few inches of snow, and then freezing rain. It's ridiculously slippery outside. I can barely stand in the street without sliding downhill. I was about to go do what no Roadster owner should do and see how it handled on an untreated icy road. Wouldn't you know that as I'm preparing, the salt truck goes by�
Jan 18, 2011
cinergi Video posted in the video forum. Includes Subaru comparison. These were about the worst conditions (aside from trying to drive in more than 6" of snow) you can find.
Again, I'm amazed. It was slow-going in some spots, but it went. The Subaru slipped a LOT, but had more overall traction so I could get up and go faster. But not once did the Roadster end up in a position where it wouldn't go.
After I'd finished both drives, a truck pulled up next to me on my street for directions and when he left, he had a *very* hard time going -- I thought he was going to get stuck.
You can't see it well, but I drove over an area of snow that was several inches deep due to plowing patterns (this was when I made the left turn to turn around). Again, no problems.�
Jan 18, 2011
TEG That is very impressive. Thanks for letting us know!�
Jan 19, 2011
Eberhard Did you had any problems with the blower for the PEM? I was told my problems are in connection of salt/wet conditions. i have now the forth blower for PEM and second for AC-Motor in my car. My car is exactly 2 month old?�
Jan 19, 2011
cinergi I haven't yet, no. I wonder if the "salt" (I think we technically use calcium-something, not salt) used is different here and that might affect things differently?�
Jan 19, 2011
Eberhard Salt = NaCl�
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