Feb 19, 2015
PatD With all this "Apple" talk in the past day or two - I'm wondering if there isn't going to be a connection here.�
Feb 19, 2015
bwa A solution to this is next time you go to a supercharger charge the cost of electricity that you are replacing for being exported from the car previously since the last time you fully paid or in other words simply to charge you at the supercharger for any amount of electricity that you used in the house from the supercharger. I guess it should track which electricity you use for the house from the supercharger so you pay for it next time. This is simple software and accounting.�
Feb 20, 2015
themacs Lot's of talk about Apple buying Tesla. Apple (according to Yahoo) has about 1,000 folks working on car development.�
Feb 20, 2015
tomas Not so easy!!!!! I currently charge at home every night. 99% of my charging is pouring my own (solar generated!) electricity into the battery. If I were to use 2 way battery as a power source, and Tesla were to log that use and charge me for that much current next time I supercharge... that would be totally unfair! What I used to power my house was my own. So, Tesla would need some algorithm to judge how much power taken from the battery was from a Supercharger. Seems thorny to me!
Plus, think about all of the other liability issues... Tesla already has VERY tight controls on current variability for charging (see a number of frustrated threads on this forum). They do that to avoid any implied culpability for damage caused by owner's sub-standard home wiring. They would have to be equally careful sending power the other direction. Not to mention additional battery cycles, and people carping about degradation.
I can understand how you can do this with a Leaf... the battery is much less valuable, and the company has huge balance sheet to offset any issues. I can also understand why Tesla may never provide this capability.�
Feb 20, 2015
AmpedRealtor I doubt Apple is working on a car. Apple would be entering a business where the margins are so much lower and the product update cycle is much slower. However, nothing would further Elon's goal of sustainable transport more than Apple buying Tesla. That would all but ensure Tesla's long term success.�
Feb 20, 2015
tomas Who knows if they are working on a car?!? But I wouldn't dismiss reasonable probability. Apple has huge brand equity for consumer products. They have a huge capitalization that demands growth. There are 4 ways to grow: product line expansion, geographic expansion, increase market share, increase market size. I think they have to pursue product line expansion. Many of us get on this forum regularly and post how stupid the ICE manufacturers are for not jumping on the BEV bandwagon. Well, if you are sitting there with a ton of brand equity, a ton of cash, and a hungry capitalization - you might just say: "hey, look at what these guys (tesla) are doing, BEV is clearly superior once volume/charging thresholds hit, the other guys are too entrenched to jump in, looks like there's room in the pool for two! And, oh by the way, the other player will share their patents with us, reducing our cost/time to market!" Not saying it's happening, but not ridiculous.
PS, sorry for straying so OT, but I was just following this other car who turned down the one way street - honestly, officer!�
Feb 20, 2015
AmpedRealtor Sorry to continue off-topic, but do you remember the reports last year of Musk meeting with Apple's chief of acquisitions and mergers? When asked on CNBC what the meeting was about, Musk flatly refused to comment. That's very unusual for Musk. Even when asked a forward-looking question, Musk usually tries his best to accommodate, and sometimes struggles to find the right words because he has to choose carefully. With the Apple meeting, Musk gave a very short and terse "no comment". The fact that Musk cannot even talk about it tells me it was some serious sh$t.
So with that additional data point, maybe Apple is looking at making a car after all. If they tried to acquire Tesla last year and talks broke down, or Musk wasn't biting at the Apple, maybe Apple decided to go its own way. I will say that if this is true, I fear for Tesla. Competition is generally good, yes, but not when it's Apple you are competing against. Just ask RIM, Nokia, HTC, Samsung, Motorola...�
Feb 20, 2015
AlMc Great off topic discussion. Hopefully a mod will move it to the proper thread and you can continue it.�
Feb 20, 2015
Bet TSLA It tells you nothing. He was talking to Apple. If you talk about what you talked about with Apple they never talk to you again. Apple takes their NDAs very seriously.�
Feb 21, 2015
David_Cary I forgot if this was mentioned in this long thread, but "essentially the entire" probably refers to superchargers. If it was valet mode, it would be all. If it was anything to do with the browser, it would be all cars.
Now it could be something that affected RWD cars only also, but that is hard to find something.
I can't think of anything else that is "essentially the entire" unless we are excluding some Signature S's that are missing some critical component. Maybe, something where you need tech package since that is probably 97+%�
Feb 21, 2015
cynix Australian and Hong Kong cars don't have the browser, so it wouldn't be all cars.�
Feb 22, 2015
David_Cary Learn something new everyday.�
Feb 22, 2015
SeminoleFSU I'm thinking UI overhaul or SDK/APIs. Those are the things that would affect the whole fleet the most... Other than a tiny bit more top speed, better torque sleep, or more regen I don't think much else would apply to the entire fleet.
As others have noted more NAV features unfortunately won't be the entire fleet for those without the tech pkg�
Feb 22, 2015
R�B Does anyone have a link to where this was said?�
Feb 22, 2015
llavalle Here you go : click here.
Quote :
�
Feb 22, 2015
Bet TSLA It was established earlier that nobody has provided any source for this. There were things said which could have been misquoted to sound like "significant impact". Obviously the title of this thread should be fixed, but the OP has never done so nor responded. I think the moderator should take care of it.
Here's the Elon Musk quote from the recent earnings conference call: "Right now, I�m really excited about the software release we have planned for next month. There is a bunch of features in it that are going to positively affect entire fleet and then of course we�ll add more autopilot capability."
See here for a transcript.�
Feb 22, 2015
AmpedRealtor That's not a feature that would impact me in the slightest near-term, and it's also not something that Musk needs to keep hush-hush because it's not disclosing anything that needs to be kept under wraps or anything that would cause prospective buyers to wait. The impression I got from what Musk and JB said during the call was that they were rolling out real features that owners in the entire fleet would appreciate.�
Feb 22, 2015
dirkhh So while we are all speculating... what if they replaced Linux and their Qt based UI with IOS and - with a simple firmware upgrade - create the first Apple car? Plus access to some apps, from iTunes, full iTunes integration, etc?
That would explain a lot of the rumors around Apple/Tesla. Oh, and then every Apple store would, in fact, become kind of a Tesla show room.
While I'm a Linux / Android person and might not be in love with that change, overall I think it would fit what Elon described.
Any beta testers for the 7.0 firmware who want to speak up? No? I didn't expect you would... PM me
�
Feb 22, 2015
TaoJones How about they beta test any wholesale OS replacement for a good long while first before foisting it upon the user community - say, for another 2.5 or so years until the Model 3 launch?�
Feb 23, 2015
billarnett Elon: "And - but most of that deferral will be taken care of this quarter with the software release next month which will add a bunch more functionality to the car. Right now, I�m really excited about the software release we have planned for next month. There is a bunch of features in it that are going to positively affect entire fleet and then of course we�ll add more autopilot capability."
Note that he said this in the context of a revenue deferral. That makes me think it probably refers to functionality that has already been talked about publicly. I'm guessing more of the auto pilot stuff. Maybe the "and then" at the end was misspoken and he really meant "including"?�
Feb 23, 2015
scottm Model S could add a bunch of exciting features... to get on-par with Nissan Leaf, for example. I read the brochure for a fully loaded Leaf... surprising to say the least.
That would be cool!�
Feb 23, 2015
AmpedRealtor Tesla seems more focused on designing high performance "halo" cars than it does making existing features competitive with those of other manufacturers. Instead of focusing their software engineers on making the current systems best in class, they have split their focus on new drive train options and this autopilot thing that will probably never fully live up to what is being promised. How long does someone have to wait for the navigation system to offer the basic features of any off-the-shelf navigation, or even the basic features of my 7 year old Prius DVD-based navigation?
Tesla can't design and sell a front console without being 2 years behind schedule, same with the CHAdeMO. They are focusing too much energy on what's next and not enough on improving what already is. It's an embarrassing picture if you look at things objectively and separate from your love of Tesla. I think my honeymoon phase may be ending because I'm very concerned with the decisions that Tesla is making. I used to think Musk could do no wrong, but lately he seems to be on the defense judging by his Q4 conference call performance.�
Feb 23, 2015
steve841 Sadly, I agree 100%�
Feb 23, 2015
bp1000 I think this is quite typical of a company in its growth phase. Important not to loose focus however. He is running this like a start up, all these innovations he thinks are going to keep the investors happy as orders increase.
I admit the features make the car more appealing for prospective owners but for current owners perhaps certain frustrations aren't being met. Hopefully a balance will be found.�
Feb 23, 2015
matbl Hmmm... How can a revenue deferral be taken care of by a software release at all?�
Feb 23, 2015
Bet TSLA You can't recognize revenue from a product you haven't delivered. For a product you have only partially delivered, you cannot recognize all the revenue. In this case, I think we're dealing with auto-pilot features not yet available to drivers. When a software update makes them available, Tesla will then be able to recognize whatever revenue on those cars that they have deferred.
This is one of the reasons that Tesla does not usually promise specific features in future software updates -- they don't want their accountants telling them that they can't recognize revenue. So long as they are vague, there's no way to support the claims that customers bought the product expecting more than they got.�
Feb 23, 2015
tomas makes sense. Another dimension of pioneering. How to apportion value of future features enabled by software. But I don't think Apple deferred a penny of NFC on iPhone 6 even though initially there was no software to enable use. First shoot the lawyers, then the accountants�
Feb 23, 2015
Bet TSLA No reason to. The feature was there and worked from day one. To make best use of it there are other things that have to happen, but that has nothing to do with the product itself.
Apple previously deferred a chunk of iPhone revenue due to their accountants telling them they couldn't really view any iPhone as completely delivered until it had gotten two years worth of promised software updates (no specific features, just bug fixes). From this article: "Instead, Apple incrementally recognized a fraction of that deferred revenue each quarter over a two year period. The practice was designed to ensure that revenue wasn't counted ahead of delivering a full product, because in Apple's accounting, the iPhone wasn't finished until two years of software updates had been provided to the end user." I thought it was ridiculously conservative accounting, but it did have the nice feature of guarding against a revenue drop due to declining sales. Of course that has not yet happened in iPhone history.�
Feb 23, 2015
tomas Thx. Educational.�
Feb 23, 2015
mikeash Actually, Apple Pay required a software update to the iPhones as well. They initially shipped with iOS 8.0, and it wasn't enabled until iOS 8.1 shipped in October. A minor delay and this may not influence your point at all, but I thought I'd nitpick anyway.�
Feb 23, 2015
Bet TSLA The feature was NFC, not Apple Pay. That worked all along.
To bring this back to Tesla, I don't believe they needed to defer revenue (given what I believe they will be delivering), but they chose to in order to be conservative. They delivered all the hardware needed for the auto-pilot features, and it was actively being used from (almost) the start for speed limit assist and lane departure warning. It's a judgment call based on what customers believe they are getting, not necessarily what the company has said it is delivering. So conservative is probably good.�
Feb 23, 2015
liuping The feature is Apple Pay, NFC is the hardware needed for the feature. The NFC hardware did nothing in the iPhone until it was used by ApplePay which was enabled iOS 8.1.
Very similar to what Tesla has done with the sensors.�
Feb 23, 2015
Bet TSLA As you like. It doesn't much matter what we consider to be a feature. What matters for deferred revenue is what the accountants think. I believe the crux of the matter to them is whether customers purchased your product in order to get something that isn't actually delivered until later. If later is within the same quarter then it doesn't really matter, but if it isn't then recognition of some appropriate amount of revenue must be deferred.�
Feb 23, 2015
yobigd20 Maybe the FW upgrade will brick the entire fleet, thereby meeting the "significant impact" goals.�
Feb 23, 2015
Bet TSLA I wish people would stop repeating this BS. Elon's words were "positively affect". Yes, you're being funny, but it's funnier if you can come up with something that matches what Elon said rather than the OP's misquote. Bricking the fleet would probably not be seen as a positive.�
Feb 23, 2015
Twiddler I do wish that the title could be fixed to reflect the actual verbiage so that my error, while well-intentioned, will stop being used against me. If I could change it, I would. To call it "BS" come on, let's not be like that.�
Feb 23, 2015
tomas MODS please note op's reasonable request.�
Feb 23, 2015
Bet TSLA My apologies. I assumed that changing it was in your power, and that if you couldn't do it directly that at least you could send a request to the moderator. Sorry.�
Feb 23, 2015
dsm363 The report the post feature is the best way to notify mods. It's hard to read every post.
What did you want the title of this thread to be?�
Feb 23, 2015
Twiddler I will admit that I have not re-listened to the portion in question (I quoted "significantly" by what I thought I had heard the first time). Anyway, apparently the proper verbiage was "positively" instead of "significantly" and so that word change is what I would like. Unfortunately my original word choice has somehow found itself rather twisted.
Thanks!�
Feb 23, 2015
bonnie Moderator note: Title updated.
(It helps when making a request to be specific in what you want done�
Feb 26, 2015
K5ING I think I found it.
Elon is turning everyone's Model S into a Bond submarine. This article on Jalopnik (yes, I know!) says they verified that this graphic was part of the 5.9 software update and that it's not photoshopped, but indeed real and "confirmed by Tesla".
Just be sure to roll up your windows first before trying the new update.�
Feb 26, 2015
dirkhh Can someone verify? Hold down "T" at the top of the screen, type in 007...�
Feb 26, 2015
SherSlick Yep. Totally worked with the latest P85D firmware (.167?)
Only if you have air suspension though.�
Feb 26, 2015
Majerus See this thread.. 007 Submarine Easter Egg�
Feb 26, 2015
dirkhh Yeah, found that right after posting...�
Feb 26, 2015
Twiddler This is so nerdtastic! For suspension height there is instead depth measured in leagues. The little image raises and lowers with the suspension. Love it.
Actually surprised that Tesla is encouraging is to play with that - GB basically told us to cut it out when we were experimenting with is a few years ago.
�
Feb 27, 2015
Rbats My guess is the firmware will allow all S's to be operated by the Apple Watch - replacing the keyfob - http://news.yahoo.com/cook-says-apple-watch-might-replace-car-keys-181918641--sector.html :wink:�
Feb 27, 2015
andrewket There is already a prototype apple watch tesla app. But this doesn't meet the bar of significantly impacting the entire fleet.�
Feb 27, 2015
dirkhh It does if what Elon and Tim discussed was that every Tesla owner gets a free Apple Watch, paid for by Elon... oh, and for those of us who are Android users I guess he'll have to throw in a free iPhone, too�
Feb 27, 2015
AndreyATC P85+ on .125
not working for me�
Feb 28, 2015
AmpedRealtor Oh wouldn't that be nice!�
Feb 28, 2015
omarsultan Well engineering does not work that way--you do not go to the engineer pantry an grab a couple for some random project. Project velocity for the drivetrain SW has nothing to do with project velocity for autopilot features and without seeing company plans, you cannot really say whether a given project prioritization makes sense or not. To allocate an engineer who understands charging/battery systems to the ChaDeMo adapter means you pay an opportunity cost in that he/she is not working on something else that may ultimately be more valuable to the company and to us owners, like say faster Superchargers. The same is true with someone that does interior elements--there would seem to be other priorities in the last couple of years like getting the RHD interior done and working on the MX interior. IMO, they should have every drivetrain engineer they have handy working on the AWD right now as I am gong to guess is its the foundation of the MX drivetrain--which is a critical bridge for the company till the M3 comes out. The fact that the new drivetrain also provides insane acceleration is a happy by-product, not the original design goal, but its also a sign of smart engineering.
The reality is Tesla will only be successful by raising the bar--parity is failure. When choosing between working on a feature everyone has and one that no one has, I always hope they choose the latter. ChaDeMo adapters and front consoles and rear consoles are seldom if ever going to be deal-breakers--people will still buy the cars and come here and gripe. Features like AWD, Autopilot, faster SCs and cheaper batteries will draw in new buyers. And yet, I am still surprised that the company spends time and effort to deliver things like rear consoles and the like to keep customers happy because I am going to guess the revenue from these things is not particularly interesting (and the relatively high prices reflect the relatively low volumes they expect).
This growth phase is where many start-ups blow up -- while its certainly not always pretty, I think Musk and company are doing a pretty good job. My guess is Elon holds JB to a very strict headcount and one of the hardest parts of JB's job is trying to allocate headcount across the various systems in the car.�
Feb 28, 2015
Bet TSLA I like this idea, but I suspect that at best it will be a discounted Apple Watch. I'm guessing the $15000 Edition for only $10000, and they'll throw in an iPhone 6.�
Mar 1, 2015
artsci Couldn't agree more. It makes no sense for Tesla to raise the bar on standard features that are largely luxury accoutrements. The have define new standards beyond the ordinary.�
Mar 1, 2015
AmpedRealtor Regardless of what we think, Tesla will have to give customers what they want. Customers who are cross-shopping have already identified many areas of improvement to existing systems. Saying that Tesla cannot improve the navigation functionality, for example, because they have to define "new standards beyond the ordinary" doesn't ring true for me. Tesla can execute on multiple fronts. If Tesla doesn't listen to its customers, Tesla will fail. That is assured.�
Mar 1, 2015
Beryl As a new Tesla buyer ("reservist"?), I agree. I'm in line because of autopilot and longer range batteries. There is no other reason for me to spend twice as much money for a BEV without those unique features.�
Mar 1, 2015
omarsultan I think there is a balance point here - you are not going to create a successful new product category by asking customers about their old product category. Jobs was great at this and Musk is similarly so. I would refer you to the Henry Ford quote: �If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.�
I actually do think they try and be responsive to customer requests/demands but, to me, they try and do it in a way that doesn't compromise the mission. With the nav, I think it will get there--I was at the D announcement and its clear the nav software is a central element for Autopilot--Musk talked about all the different elements (sensors, GPS, nav) etc working as an integrated system....but...as with many things Telsa, its probably gonna take some time. Folks always use Waze as an example, but I will tell you, I used Waze form the beginning and out the door, ti was nothing to write home about.�
Mar 2, 2015
fadkar At service stations Tesla has forms that you can fill out to request for new features. They then look at what most people are demanding and try to come up with a solution. That sounds pretty responsive to me considering the fact that they are trying to expand production becsuse they are severely production limited, expanding their supercharger network, working on the MX and M3, investing in battery facilities, coming up with more updates, etc.�
Mar 2, 2015
Chris TX If this isn't strictly firmware, this is my guess:
Given the removal of the Twin Charger option on the build page, I wonder if all Model S (entire fleet) will get a free second charger. As for those that already purchased this option, maybe they'll get a Tesla Store gift card? :wink:�
Mar 2, 2015
dirkhh Definitely not firmware. And really not something that "positively impacts the entire fleet". Except that maybe people who ordered before whatever cutoff they may have in mind will get mad... :-/�
Mar 2, 2015
Chris TX It would positively impact the entire fleet if they were retroactively upgraded for free. To not piss off the owners that already have the twin chargers, maybe some kind of gift cards or refunds.�
Mar 2, 2015
dirkhh Given the massive amount of labor involved in doing that, I don't see that happening. And Tesla's regard for people who have already paid can be reviewed in the threads about the people who paid for next gen seats and have now been told they won't get them until May...�
Mar 2, 2015
Gizmotoy Right, it's a lot of work to install them after delivery, as noted by the labor cost. Plus, a lot of owners simply don't need them. If they had, they probably would have ordered it in the first place. Seems like a huge waste of money on Tesla's part.
A firmware update is far more likely.�
Mar 2, 2015
Lerxt I just can't see how Tesla can really afford to give a new charger to everyone who has a car. It would be a massive expense in hardware, time and labour for little gain, in reality ( people usually buy what they need). I suspect there is, as I've said, a battery lease program or some other "against the dealers" setup. It really is wishful thinking and not good for Tesla when the market is closely looking at its bottom line.�
Mar 2, 2015
jay-bay I suspect an increase in top speed.�
Mar 2, 2015
SW2Fiddler I thought it worthwhile to bring this forward to the current page, again.
Assuming this is accurately transcribed, we can rule out retroactive charger installs, wouldn't you think?
Any hardware really, albeit the Tank Mode retrofits really did happen.
(But if we are going there, my pet upgrade speculation is a HyperLoop-inspired turbine air scoop to negate that pesky wind resistance. Suddenly the removable nose makes more sense...)�
Mar 2, 2015
AmpedRealtor I wasn't aware of these forms, I will definitely ask the next time I go in! Thanks for the tip.
- - - Updated - - -
^ this�
Mar 2, 2015
morbot Top speed increase wouldn't really be that useful to me (and quite a few other owners I suspect). I understand that some enthusiasts, particularly the P85+ & P85D owners may take the car to the track and want this... but a lot of us won't get the car near it's limit in our time owning it.
I'm of course not opposed to it being done... but if that is the "big item" in the update, I'd be a bit underwhelmed.�
Mar 2, 2015
brianman I won't hold my breath but "car acts as a wifi hotspot" fits Elon's description. Also note that he said "bunch of features" not "a feature", so we're looking for multiple software-associated changes/additions.�
Mar 2, 2015
AmpedRealtor They could always magically enable LTE for everyone... that would be really magical! lol�
Mar 2, 2015
Lump I have been to the service center countless times, I have never seen these forms or been asked input on new features FWIW.�
Mar 2, 2015
dirkhh Top speed would really not fit that bill. Outside of Germany and small parts of the US (and tracks) no one gets to (legally) use top speed. And even then it is my understanding that at 155 miles/hr (250 km/h) you are likely to get into overheating scenarios... and forget about range. So no, I don't think that's it.
- - - Updated - - -
Same here�
Mar 2, 2015
rlang59 I don't think we'll see that happen until after Tesla isn't paying for the data.�
Mar 2, 2015
bxr140 I'm sure it's been said (and probably refuted) but I'm hoping for faster supercharging rates. At the time of initial release the rate/taper was no doubt toeing the no-doubt fuzzy line, but with the amount of supercharging/degredation data available now, it might be no impact (or low impact) to bump up another 10-20%.
That would also have an equivalent effect of 10-20%(ish) more supercharging stalls...�
Mar 2, 2015
apacheguy @bxr - It's not necessarily even the rate that has improve. They could maintain the 120 kW cap and just extend the taper point another 10% SOC or so. The impact would be huge if that's viable.�
Mar 3, 2015
matbl Good point. And when re-reading the statement, I come to the conclusion that it is those features combined that will "positively affect entire fleet".
so I think we're getting a bunch of features. Some will be autopilot only to take care of that deferred revenue. And some will be for all cars. But I think it's clear he doesn't talk about one big feature.
Also interesting to note is that since he promised investors to take care of the deferred revenue this quarter, the probability for a release doing at least that is high. The investors probably don't care much about firmware releases but they do care about revenue.�
Mar 3, 2015
MsElectric Maybe we are finally going to get a valet mode...�
Mar 3, 2015
SW2Fiddler (Optional) UBER comm integration into the big screen would positively affect Pearlie May and me!�
Mar 3, 2015
dirkhh The more I think about this, the more I think it will be something much more "obvious".
It has to be something that makes intuitive sense to many buyers and also can be retroactively done for "almost the entire fleet".
That has me think it's something that requires the tech package (that I think would be "almost the entire fleet").
So maybe it is the full rewrite of the navigation software that Elon had hinted about in November of 2013 and had pre-announced for Jan/Feb... we thought he meant 2014
Navigation that takes into account, traffic, weather, wind, charging locations and gives a recommendation as to the best speed in order to arrive at your destination at the earliest time.
Maybe it will even (GASP) support way points�
Mar 3, 2015
bxr140 That's what Im saying.
It would obviously be different rates for the A packs and 60s. but the logic can still be cross platform. Certainly the physics/chemistry/math hasn't changed, but no doubt the years of data and years of research into increasing rates has shed some light on what's possible.I also think the impact to supercharger use would be uber significant (though, it would increase the number of clipping events due to SC pairing).�
Mar 3, 2015
llavalle That's not physically possible (changing the taper point).
When charging a battery, the charger will adjust its voltage above the current battery voltage. The difference between the battery voltage and the charger output will determine the amount of amps going to the battery.
Bogus number examples : battery is 300V. Charger wants to "send" 20Amp for some reason (limitation of wire size for example). Charger will send 310V... (again, bogus numbers). When the battery gets to 301V.. charger will send 311V... and so on. The charger basically "follows up" the battery and try to keep the amps at the same amount.
At one point, the battery will be very close to it's maximum voltage. ex :A regular lithium ion cell (18650) max voltage is 4.2V. This means, for our example battery, that at one point we're at 395V for an example max of 400 and we can't pump out 405 to still get the 20A.. we must never exceed 400! So we get 10amps.. and when the battery is at 398, we get 4 amps, and so on.
That's the reason why you get diminishing returns when upping charger capacity. At one point you save only at the beginning of the charging cycle. A 120kWh battery would stay in the 120kw zone for much longer!
So back to the original thread : enabling 140kW supercharging could be possible (if the wiring of the car and the cells can handle it) but changing the taper point isn't without changing the cell technology.�
Mar 3, 2015
Gizmotoy That would be true if Tesla is following the upper limits permitted by the batteries, but I don't think we know that's the case. They've changed the tapering behavior at least once since they started delivering Model S. The car and Supercharger communicate, and could decide to charge the battery at whatever rate they feel like as long as it's less then the maximum for the given SOC, and it's entirely possible Tesla is holding some of that capacity in reserve to either go easy on the batteries or manage thermal stresses.�
Mar 3, 2015
Vger Yes, this! There is room here to please everybody, and both catch up with competitive systems, and leapfrog other EV's.
In addition, I think that v6.1 shows that they "get" that they have to sprinkle in some minor refinements (like defaulting to average energy consumption) in each release.
Respectfully, I hink a lot of us are over-thinking this. It does not have to be out-of-the-blue to be highly impactful. Just good design and attention to real workflows while driving will guide to big impact and customer satisfaction.�
Mar 3, 2015
AmpedRealtor A more robust navigation system would positively impact the entire fleet, especially if they add automatic routing to superchargers (or other charge points) along your route.�
Mar 3, 2015
middly While I agree it's fun to speculate on what the upgrades are...has there been any hint towards when this upgrade would be out?�
Mar 3, 2015
dirkhh Announced dates for firmware upgrades from Tesla are a mixed bag. 6.0 may have been a wee bit late (Elon's comments in Nov 2013 made us believe we'd get something much more comprehensive than what 6.0 ended up offering as early as Feb 2014... on the flip side torque sleep arrived within a day or two of their self-imposed target date). From what Jerome said in Switzerland it seems that they are thinking about a major firmware upgrade (I'm guessing 6.2) in the next month or two - but it's not clear if that is the release that Elon was talking about.
This is a very longwinded way of saying "I don't think we know"�
Mar 3, 2015
AlMc The only data point we have IIRC is EM saying at the CC in February that this would come 'next month' (so March)�
Mar 3, 2015
sandpiper Here's my wish....
I'd like if it they had determined, after two years of conservative field testing, that it's possible to:
a) run the batteries a bit deeper into discharge
b) charge the batteries a bit closer to true full charge
c) increase the length of time that the supercharger can run at full rate before taper, and taper off more slowly.
d) do the above without adversely degrading the battery.
The net result would be that Tesla provides a firmware upgrade that provides all vehicles in the fleet with 12% more range, and allows them to run to full charge 25% faster!
This might not be COMPLETELY out to lunch.�
Mar 3, 2015
HankLloydRight Respectfully, I think this is an understatement.
�
Mar 3, 2015
quantumslip Just wondering, if it is something to do with the battery and adjusting charge limits and boundaries, how much capacity/reserve do they have to work with? Can't image it to be too much.�
Mar 3, 2015
sandpiper I saw a chart somewhere on this forum. You might be able to find it is you search. If I recall correctly (perhaps a stretch!) it was either 15 or 20%, combining room at the top and bottom.�
Mar 3, 2015
middly Respectfully, I think this is all part of the fun.�
Mar 3, 2015
morbot Anyone think it's possible we'll ever see improvements (even if they're just minor) in the areas of:
1. Faster rate of charge
2. Increased range
Through purely software only updates? I know early on they made some efficiency tweaks, but I wonder if things are so optimized at this point there's no further room for improvement outside of hardware changes?�
Mar 3, 2015
llavalle I'm pretty sure they do. a S85 will report a full battery at 402V.. With 96cells in series (16modules x 6 groups, total 7104 cells), it means each cell is at 4.1875V. That only leaves 0.0125V of margin... and we're not even talking about balance between each group.
So unless the 402V reported is wrong (or altered for display purposes), they won't be able to do anything with it.�
Mar 3, 2015
Gizmotoy That's fine for a full battery, but you took that sentence out of context. What was being discussed was the rate of charge at various SOCs, not the total battery capacity. We know they already increased the rate of charge (the taper) one time since they started delivering Model S, and I don't think we know for sure how close that rate is to the battery's theoretical max.�
Mar 3, 2015
apacheguy Right, the taper can absolutely be improved at the lower SOC end. Elon even hinted at this during the SpC announcement. They are not testing the upper limits of the batteries in the current implementation.�
Mar 3, 2015
dirkhh Father in law of a good friend happens to work in battery research (oh the people I know...). He explained to me that he was flabergasted by the taper curve. I showed him my logs of a few supercharger visits (back when I was working on the REST API tools and tracked all this). He did some calculations and came to the conclusion that either he is missing some important data or Tesla is being extremely careful to avoid aging the cells too quickly. In his mind the taper could be pushed out quite a bit - as in "start at about a 20% higher SOC than it does today".�
Mar 3, 2015
anxman Some possible upgrades to the whole fleet could be:
- Integration of better musical choices directly into the car, such as Spotify
- 3D navigation
- Inclusion of all charging data from Chargepoint/Plugshare directly into the navigation system
- Better designed music center with improved album art
Another theory I considered recently is improved range across the whole fleet. Basically, their learnings from torque sleep on the P85D have let them figure out how to apply torque sleep to single motor vehicles and improve range by a few percentage points.�
Mar 3, 2015
skilly As long as we are speculating, I was thinking things that might benefit the whole fleet:
- flux capacitor
- Knight Rider flashing light and talking computer interface
- trunk monkey
- The Jetson's bubble car sound app to match speedo read out (tied to tech package of course).�
Mar 3, 2015
Lerxt Remember it's a demand thing against the dealers. I do like the idea of faster charging rates and it would affect the whole fleet pretty well.�
Mar 3, 2015
DJung I believe those were separate items. The one against the dealers was the comment he made about the fact that he had a secret lever he could pull to increase demand. He said that he might want to pull it this year, but he would have to wait and see.
This thread refers to a software update that would could possibly come sometime this month that would "positively impact" the entire fleet of Model S vehicles.�
Mar 4, 2015
HankLloydRight I'd like to see something as simple as caching the Google maps for a day (or gasp, even one whole week!!), so once loaded they don't have to reload/redraw from 3G every time the map is zoomed in or out or relocated.
And of course, all the other Nav features found on handheld GPS units built in the last 10 years (way points, alternate routes, etc).�
Mar 4, 2015
dirkhh Sadly, that's a violation of the TOS of Google Maps. They state quite clearly that you are NOT allowed to cache them.
Yes. Tesla has done steady incremental improvements. And as I said a few pages ago, I think this is likely to be the thing that they were talking about. The next major step in navigation, taking into account environmental factor, your driving and the charging opportunities.�
Mar 4, 2015
jgs Maybe they'll throw in the long-requested ability to integrate audio from an iOS device (iPod, etc).
- - - Updated - - -
- frunk monkey
FTFY�
Mar 4, 2015
mspohr Download an offline map - Maps for mobile Help
Google maps app has had this capacity for a few years.�
Mar 4, 2015
skilly Thanks - I suppose that is the better spot; however, the P85D doesnt leave much room there for bananas.�
Mar 4, 2015
dirkhh I was going to point out that that's the Google app. But then of course I went back and re-read the TOS and since the last time I've studied them for a project there has been an important change:
Google Maps/Google Earth APIs Terms of Service - Google Maps API Google Developers now includes this language:10.1.3 Restrictions against Copying or Data Export.
[...]
(b) No Pre-Fetching, Caching, or Storage of Content. You must not pre-fetch, cache, or store any Content, except that you may store: (i) limited amounts of Content for the purpose of improving the performance of your Maps API Implementation if you do so temporarily (and in no event for more than 30 calendar days), securely, and in a manner that does not permit use of the Content outside of the Service; and (ii) any content identifier or key that the Maps APIs Documentation specifically permits you to store. For example, you must not use the Content to create an independent database of "places" or other local listings information.
?
So I was wrong. Google now does allow reasonable storing (30 calendar days is more than we'd want Tesla to store the tiles, anyway) to improve user experience. This didn't use to be the case. My mistake for going by memory and not double checking the source before posting. Given these rules it would indeed be relatively easy for Tesla to download a 5 mile radius around where you are in multiple resolutions and maybe 20 miles around you in just one or two and then have a truly fluid user experience with just the traffic being updated live over the air. All they'd need to implement is a time based expiry of the cache (which isn't all that hard) and a clever way to pick good times when to refresh that cache.�
Mar 4, 2015
Andyw2100
Any chance the Tesla programmers also didn't know about this change? Perhaps we (I'm looking at you, dirkhh�
Mar 4, 2015
SW2Fiddler ... And to think I missed the Vertical Take-Off hardware by just a few months!
I saw "positively affect." But yes, it's separate from the Secret Weapon.�
Mar 4, 2015
HankLloydRight Everything is negotiable... Especially if you're Elon Musk.�
Mar 4, 2015
hiroshiy This thread is quickly becoming a wish list for the "Elon's update"
What about a capability to make a small sound, to let pedestrians know I'm here? When driving through narrow streets where I only have less than three feet from pedestrians, it will be useful.
Is Model S's horn sound software controlled? I guess only the switch...�
Mar 5, 2015
billarnett And of course, it should preload all the tiles along your route.�
Mar 5, 2015
Mark Petersen also it would be nice it they added support for vector based maps (non earth view), so zooming do not require loading of new map titles
and if they added support for 3party charging networks and POI Complex icons - Google Maps JavaScript API v3 Google Developers�
Mar 5, 2015
apacheguy I thought the maps were vector based. They changed the code when they implemented direction-of-travel facing Nav.�
Mar 5, 2015
mspohr According to this article, they switched to vector based maps in 2013.
Redesigned Google Maps hands-on: vector-based, more personal and coming soon to mobile�
Mar 8, 2015
heartland How about allowing the user to reduce the "reserve buffer" to increase the range of all Model S cars?�
Mar 8, 2015
apacheguy Will never happen. Tesla maintains the reserve as anti-bricking protection.�
Mar 8, 2015
Danal Knight Rider scrolling rear TESLA applique soon available from third party (artsci): Light effects for TESLA letter on rear appliqu�
The effects have gotten much better since that video. More video soon. (I'm doing the electronics for artsci)�
Mar 9, 2015
mspohr What happens when you try to drive beyond 0?�
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