Mar 3, 2015
Musterion When I bought factory-supplied dual chargers plus HPWC the cost was $1500 + $1200 = $2700. Now the cost for same capability + charging is $2000 (installed) + $750 = $2750. By my reckoning, not bad for two years delta. In the intervening time, there was probably a worst case time to buy (retrofit 2nd charger at $3600 + $1200 HPWC = $4800), e.g., a few days ago...�
Mar 3, 2015
Cyclone Just a note though that the HPWC in the US has been at $750 for a couple months now. But still, except for late 2014 and the first two months of 2015, the above holds true.�
Mar 3, 2015
mrElbe Also note that items previously part of the factory order had a 4 year warranty and items bought from the Accessories store have a 1 year warranty.�
Mar 3, 2015
brianman Good point.�
Mar 3, 2015
fredag EU cars with single charger can only get 16A out of a 7.6kW 32A single phase type2 outlet, using a type2 cable.
Charging at 32A single phase blue sockets with the UMC will work with a single charger, due to special wiring in the UMC. But not 32A single phase type2 outlets using a standard type2 cable.�
Mar 4, 2015
mgboyes Fascinating info thank you. I do have a UMC actually but have never continuity checked it to see if the Live on the blue commando is bridged to L1/2/3 into the UMC itself.
UK cars were originally expected to be delivered with the UMC as standard but about 2 months before first deliveries Tesla switched their plans and decided to include a Type 2 cable instead and not offer the UMC.
This is because the UK has a government grant scheme where an EV owner can get a 32A Type 2 charge point installed at their home completely free (including installation, cabling, and the unit itself) so of course this is a very popular option here. Nobody is installing commando sockets for EV charging in the UK.
Tesla initially went through a process where they worked with one of the grant-eligible charge point suppliers to develop a "tesla-specific" charge point (with the phases bridged inside the charge point) but shortly after the first few of these were installed they backtracked and removed them, and evidently made the decision to build initial UK cars with dual chargers.
TM staff are now adamant that new UK RHD Model S's are not going to be built with dual chargers from the factory.�
Mar 4, 2015
bob_p I've had my P85 for over two years and over 50K miles, and have used only a 14-50 outlet for extended periods twice.
Except for rare cases, the charging rate with a single charger and a 14-50 outlet should be fast enough. I can recall only one time when I really needed the faster charging rate of the HPWC and dual chargers - when I did quite a bit of driving during the day - and then went on a road trip in the evening.
While the HPWC looks cool, from a practical standpoint, based on my experience, it's probably not worth spending an extra $3500 to get the dual chargers and HPWC. A second UMC for use in the garage (so that there's always a UMC in the car for an emergency) is probably what most owners need.
And if the option is still available from the local Service Center - then owners can still get the extra charging - if they really want to get it.�
Mar 4, 2015
TexasEV Most people who have opted for dual chargers didn't do so because they routinely needed faster charging at home. They did so to take advantage of high amp level 2 charging (HPWC or Clipper Creek high amp J1772) when away from home.
The issue with it only being available at the service center "if they really want it" is most buyers won't know it's available if it's not listed among the options when they order their car. You don't think it's necessary-- fine, that's why it's always been optional rather than standard. But at least Tesla should keep it as an option and not something hidden on an accessories page that most buyers will never see.�
Mar 4, 2015
jerry33 Especially now that the Accessories page is hidden. It's as if they don't want to sell any accessories.�
Mar 4, 2015
breser Doesn't seem that hidden to me, there's an accessories link on the Model S page. They did get rid of a bunch of clutter on their main page and the drop down menus they had on the header. There's good reason to get rid of the drop down menus because they're hard to use on touch devices. However, what I do think they should do is add a nice big prominent accessories link in the dashboard since they've got a lot of unused space under the car once it's delivered.�
Mar 4, 2015
AmpedRealtor That's not the only change... turn-by-turn navigation is now standard and no longer requires the Tech Package!�
Mar 4, 2015
ecarfan Also LED running lights, Lane Assist, and Speed Limit Display are now standard. Interesting.
I also think the Accessories link is hard to find. It should be a main site navigation item at the top of every page.�
Mar 4, 2015
kabirakhtar also the Tech Package now lists "Lane keeping with automatic steering" and "Self-parking", even though those are not yet enabled. were they there before, or is this new also?
either way seems like priority items for TM to enable, since they're listed on the sales page as features...�
Mar 4, 2015
jgs They've been listed for a while, definitely prior to the most recent update. I do agree that it appears to make them fairly high-stakes items to deliver.�
Mar 4, 2015
markb1 Yeah, it's messed up. Why is it under the Model S section? The shop also has stuff for Roadster owners and brand enthusiasts who don't necessarily own Tesla cars.�
Mar 4, 2015
Paul Carter And even some Model X apparel! Its hard to find cause I configure a Model S P85D daily and never seen it. Must not press order.
�
Mar 4, 2015
hingisfan Weird....the CDN site doesnt have the "Options" text section, and the tech pkg is presented differently. Also, no text regarding AP updates in the tech pkg section.�
Mar 5, 2015
Insane I called TESLA and dual charger is an after market product that can be purchased & installed at the service center. Its $ 500 more in cost.�
Mar 5, 2015
TomL Some reasons why I chose dual charger and HPWC - in a word, flexibility:
- faster charging on the road if available
- HPWC is only $150 more than the extra charging cable, garage wiring was only $100 more for 100A vs 50A
- fast charging at home to fit in cheapest rate window at night
- fast charging at home if needing to charge mid-day�
Mar 6, 2015
KJD Really stupid move by Tesla. Did they give you a reason for why they did this ?�
Mar 6, 2015
smac I think it's obvious. $$$$
They make at both ends. EVERY car off the line now only has single chargers, simplifying production and reducing cost on every car. Every person that "needs" it will pay the extra $500.
The small volume in sales they lose, will be more than made up for in additional unit margin.�
Mar 6, 2015
markb1 There is surely more labor involved in installing a second charger at the service center, though, so it's less than $500 of additional profit.�
Mar 6, 2015
smac Yep, but the point still stands, they will have done the sums
There's a good reason they have some of the highest margins in the sector�
Mar 6, 2015
medved 22kW charger should be standard. Because it gives me the freedom to charge sufficiently fast wherever there is a 32A 3-phase socket (there are thousands of them). With 22kW charger i can use my car without being dependent on any kind of fast charging network. I will not buy any electric car without 22kW charger. I am very disappointed with this Tesla move towards crappy cars. Shame on you, Tesla!�
Mar 6, 2015
fredag +1
There's also the network effect of this: With fewer 22kWh cars out there, fewer destinations will bother with setting up 22kWh type2 charging points for destination charging, making road trips outside the supercharger builtup areas more difficult. 22kW charger should be standard in Europe.�
Mar 7, 2015
smac
And in the case of UK cars, which are just software limited, by not paying for a setting in a menu somewhere, I'm hogging the bay longer for other users. (Now the CHAdeMO is available, it's less of an issue of course.)
Ultimately if you want a car that is (almost) a replacement for an ICE on long journeys, you are looking at Supercharging + Dual + CHAdeMO.
You could almost buy a brand new ICE here in the UK for the same money, and only use it for those occasional trips outside battery range�
Mar 12, 2015
Novoman Dual Charger discontinued?
Just noticed the dual charger is no longer offered in design studio. Glad I ordered mine on time. Any insights in this?�
Mar 12, 2015
Twiglett start back at page one of this thread - I did the same thing�
Mar 13, 2015
Jallum.pa.us Dual charger option discontinued?
Periodically, I reprice my car using the online configurator. Today, I noticed a $2000 discrepancy. When ticking through the options to make sure I had them all set the same, I noticed that in the "charging" section, the option for dual chargers has been removed. Can anyone else verify this? Does anyone have an idea why this option would be retracted?�
Mar 13, 2015
jerry33 Thread on this is here.�
Mar 16, 2015
n2mb_racing Any updates to confirm if all cars are shipping with a single charger or dual chargers now? The website says,
YOUR MODEL S COMES WITH
- Single Charger (10 kW)
"J1772, 80 amp capable"
Which is kind of contradictory....
�
Mar 16, 2015
breser No it isn't. The J1772 adapter is 80 amp capable, they ship the same adapter with every car. However, you won't get 80 amp charging with a single charger.�
Mar 16, 2015
n2mb_racing Ok. So, all new cars are definitely only single charger?�
Mar 16, 2015
iadbound That's the way it looks.�
Mar 16, 2015
jerry33 When delivered. You can add the second one at the Service Centre during delivery, but it's a separate purchase.�
Mar 17, 2015
PoweredByRain It's a separate, much less expensive than it used to be, purchase. It used to be $3600, now it's $2000.
Shop Tesla Gear Charging and Adapters
Tesla Gear Shop Charging and Adapters
I think Tesla's reasoning here is that as the Supercharger network is built out, the importance of having an 80A 240V charging capability decreases. It simplifies the production line to eliminate the option. Those who want it can still have it, for no more cost than previously. And speaking as someone who bought an inventory car which did not have dual chargers: this change in price is a welcome one.�
Mar 17, 2015
jgs That's an overstatement. While a $500 increase vs. the previous factory price isn't tremendous in the grand scheme of things, it ain't nothing.�
Mar 17, 2015
SmartElectric Willing to bet Tesla will be increasing the kW output of their built in charger at some point, and then you won't need dual.
Or you can retrofit upgraded charger to the existing fleet for a cost, perhaps the same cost quoted above ($2K).�
Mar 23, 2015
Rheazombi Someone spotted this Tesla at the Hawthorne Supercharger, and the window sticker makes it seem as though Twin Chargers are included in the price...
Edit: NVM, optical illusion. It's $1500.�
Mar 23, 2015
MikeC Looks like they were $1500 if you count up five from the bottom.�
Mar 23, 2015
NOLA_Mike Obsidian Black Paint - new color?�
Mar 23, 2015
breser Yes that's the new metallic black.�
Mar 23, 2015
brianman What about the "Subzero Weather Package - INCLUDED"? I thought it was/is $750.�
Mar 23, 2015
markb1 It's included with executive rear seats.�
Mar 24, 2015
ERAS3R I just got a confirmation email and the dual chargers are included.
Your Model S
All-Wheel Drive Dual Motor
Grey Metallic Paint
All Glass Panoramic Roof
19" Wheels
Tan Next Generation Seats
Executive Rear Seats
Piano Black D�cor
Matching Yacht Floor
Black Alcantara Headliner
Tesla Red Brake Calipers
Supercharger Enabled
Dual Chargers
Tech Package with Autopilot
Smart Air Suspension
Premium Interior Package
Ultra High Fidelity Sound
Subzero Weather Package�
Mar 24, 2015
Matias You ordered them?�
Mar 24, 2015
breser Where did you find that image? I've seen the post with the Ocean Blue car but not the post that has this image which is the window sticker for a Obsidian Black car. The Ocean Blue car appears to have a black car sitting next to it so it might be this car but can't find more detailed pictures of it.�
Mar 24, 2015
brianman I don't see anything recent on Obsidian Black, but search engine found a weird link when I looked for "obsidian black tesla"....
Obsidian Black | Tesla Motors�
Mar 24, 2015
breser Yeah I searched and couldn't find anything other than the stuff a knew about and the roadster color. Google image search on that image doesn't turn it up either.�
Mar 24, 2015
Cyclone @spentan found both cars sitting next to each other. That post is here...
Lighter Shade of Blue? - Page 5�
Mar 24, 2015
spentan Thanks for referencing the post.
The pic is here
It just looked like a metallic black, it was way too dark to get a proper pic�
Mar 24, 2015
brianman Tesla is sure making it complicated...
I'm lusting over a P85D, but I want front and rear NG seats -- which implies that I have to pick the magic 2hr window sometime in the next year. And then I would really want the new blue - but who knows when that's available. Also, I'd want delivery before end of June due to the tax implications in WA. And, of course, I'd want dual chargers as part of the delivery configuration -- also for tax reasons.
Tesla's making it hard for me to consider clicking the Order button even when I'm ready to financially.�
Mar 24, 2015
n2mb_racing I think all the recent deliveries and showroom cars have front and rear NG seats, no?
What are the tax reasons to take delivery before June? And the tax implications of dual chargers?�
Mar 24, 2015
brianman Corrective insertion underlined in the quote:
1. My understanding is that this is incorrect.
2. In WA state, "no sales tax on EVs" expires after June 2015. [There's talk of extending with additional limitations, but nothing's passed yet.]
3. My expectation/understanding is that dual chargers delivered with vehicle are untaxed, but are taxed if installed after delivery.�
Mar 24, 2015
saladman I know about the WA sales tax change - but what does dual chargers do for our taxes in WA?�
Mar 24, 2015
n2mb_racing 
Here's an inventory car I've been considering. It's probably 3 months old. I think those are next gen seats in the back.
I think with dual chargers being off the design studio, your best bet is going to be buying an inventory car, if you want something that already has them installed.�
Mar 24, 2015
NOLA_Mike I'm pretty sure what they're saying is that if the dual chargers come on the car from the factory and are included in the purchase price they won't pay sales tax on them. If they are bought from the service center after the sale and installed then they will be taxed like any other purchase.�
Mar 24, 2015
brianman My disagreement with your assessment was the word "all". I think it's currently a crapshoot whether you get the rear NGs or not.�
Mar 24, 2015
n2mb_racing That makes sense.
I wish there was a sales tax exemption in North Carolina! We have a 3% highway use tax instead of sales tax, and then ~1% yearly "property" tax.. That could add up...�
Mar 24, 2015
breser I agree with your assumptions about dual chargers. I ordered my winter wheels/tires with the car because of this. Which is also something you can no longer do.�
Mar 24, 2015
Cyclone Agreed. I test drove a white P85D at the Boca Raton, FL gallery that had NG front, 1.5 gen backs. Car only had 3k ok it, but I didn't look when it was manufactured.�
Mar 24, 2015
Nevek Seems like Tesla could make this a little easier by telling anyone who orders next-gen with 1.5 rear seats now for $2500 that they have the option (but not the obligation) to have next gen rears installed "soon*" for $1200 or some semi-reasonable number. Limited to those that ordered the next-gen in the first place.
(*when the ships come in, presumably)�
Mar 24, 2015
brianman Agree.�
Apr 8, 2015
Kipernicus Twin chargers still not listed as an option with today's changes, but it isn't obvious if it's included for free or not.�
Apr 8, 2015
shadowinstallz Don't think it is included.....still coming up on acc page.
Tesla Gear Shop Dual Charger with Installation
given the increasing amount of superchargers, i think the only consumers getting dual chargers are "educated" consumers IMHO�
Apr 9, 2015
Kipernicus That's a shame, because at the same time Tesla is promoting destination charging and giving out HPWCs to hotels etc. It would be better for all involved if more of the fleet can handle 80 amps and not tie up those chargers as long.�
Apr 9, 2015
TexasEV I completely agree. This seems to be a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. More availability of 80A charging, but fewer new owners knowing about that capability. If it's not on the order page, most non-enthusiast buyers won't know the possibility of 80A charging exists. They won't order it later from the service center if they don't know about it.�
Jun 8, 2015
100thMonkey wow, just stumbled on the first and hopefully last disappointment of our pending 85D delivery on Wednesday... "what, our car isn't coming with dual chargers?!" call me a idiot but I did not notice that the dual charger was no longer an option when ordering and now I'm bummed and feel a little mislead (a sort of guilt by omition kind of thing). we already have a 20 kW station at home and there are many on the west coast. It never dawned on me that Tesla would remove it all together, so when we went over and over the check boxes we just missed that it wasn't an option. the web site still talks about it, if anything I figured they would make 20kW standard. Not only are we looking at a flooded resale market for our P85+ (that has been discontinued and is apparently virtually unsaleable, except for trade in, where we are taking a huge hair cut on top of the fact that they give zero credit for full xpel wrap) but we are now looking at having to purchase the dual charger after delivery and likely will pay sales tax on it. I'm scratching my head going, WTF Tesla? the car I'm trading in has dual chargers that I'm getting next to nothing in credit for while the new car comes without... it just doesn't sit well with us.�
Jun 8, 2015
chriSharek Can you have them take the second charger out of your P85+ and put it in your new 85D?�
Jun 8, 2015
100thMonkey I was considering asking if that was possible but of course I seriously doubt it.�
Jun 8, 2015
chriSharek I'm sure you'd have to pay for the removal and installation, but I don't see why the chargers wouldn't fit/work. $500 maybe?�
Jun 8, 2015
MorrisonHiker
If you search around, I've seen threads where others were also considering the possibility of moving the second charger to their new car. I've seen the chargers for sale separately too...but have no idea what it would cost to remove it from one car and install it in another.�
Jun 8, 2015
brianman I suspect Tesla wouldn't do it because, in part, I think his P85+ is from the era where dual chargers (presence/absence) was indicated in the VIN.�
Jun 8, 2015
JPP FWIW I just ordered dual chargers for my wife's soon-to-be delivered S70D, through the TM Gear web site. When ordering, I was asked to pick the model of S, and optionally provide the VIN. Makes me think that there might be subtle differences in the charger and/or installation kit. I passed the order number to my DS, who is trying to arrange for the Fremont Service Center to do the install before we pick up the car (...save a trip/appointment back to a service center).�
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