Jul 29, 2012
Dr Chill I had my test drive yesterday, and despite finding the car fairly powerful with good handling characteristics, it was a major disappointment for my wife and me. Having recently sold our Panamera after 16 months of ownership because of it feeling too big and heavy for local around town driving, and the very poor visibility it had on the side and rear, I found the Model S to suffer from too much heft, length and width.
This car was to replace my wife's 2013 Lexus GS F Sport which she loves. I have had the GS on a road course and on an autocross track during the GS driving experience, and personally have 30 years of racing and hpde experience. The current Lexus GS has much better low speed maneuverability and is easier to drive as a grocery getter and errand runner. And since this was to be her car, she's reluctant to switch to such a big and heavy vehicle. The Tesla's excess mass gives it a driving feel not unlike the Fisker although clearly not as massive as that. The Tesla clearly overcomes its mass at speeds over 45 and tolerates road irregularities well and corners fairly flatly. The fit/finish and ergonomic issues exist but those to me aren't major, nor is the lack of adequate seat lateral support, but that's where cars like the GS F Sport truly shine. This GS also out- handles every other medium sized luxury car in its class (5 Series, E Class, and A6) which is unlike any Lexus before it.
I am the car fanatic of the family and make all the car decisions. Despite poor parking lot characteristics, I overall liked the Model S for what it is-the best electric vehicle available to date with good acceleration and handling at what I feel to be a reasonable price point. Since I prefer a sports car as an every day driver, the Model S isn't for me. Unfortunately it doesn't fit the bill for my wife either.
My only hope is for the 40 kW battery Model S to shed 200 plus pounds. Until the weight of that car is known, I will leave my deposit alone. Why there isn't definitive info available about that yet, is a mystery considering its release is supposedly 3-4 months away.
While I hope I'm not a downer for many of you, I think the Tesla S may be a great car for all of us at first (with people staring and everyone complimentary ting and inquiring about it- similar to our Porsche Panamera experience). After a year of ownership and shelling out $2000 for another set of 8000 mile tires, it may not be everything you expected.�
Jul 29, 2012
dsm363 I thought it handled very well at low speeds but you need to be happy with your purchase. It looks to be the size of a 5 series which plenty of people drive and much smaller than many of the SUVs people drive for getting groceries. If you keep your order, definitely get the 19" wheels since you can get tires that last much longer than 8,000 miles. Even the performance wheels last closer to 15,000 from what I've read on tirerack.com�
Jul 29, 2012
Velo1 Fair enough. Sounds like you are making an objective assessment. I plan to stick with my reservation, but your points are duly noted.�
Jul 29, 2012
doug It is a rather large car.�
Jul 29, 2012
Bardlebee Sounds like a personal preference. The width and size of the vehicle will be foreign to me personally, but that doesn't bother me to much. It's always refreshing to hear people that won't be getting the car because of a specific reason or an overall issue. This car isn't perfect to every person, all a personal preference and what not.�
Jul 29, 2012
Andrew Wolfe It is a big car. The width is much closer to a 7 series.
If there were a similar car 80% as big - I would get it instead. Maybe I will when it comes out - but for now - this is the only car in its class.�
Jul 29, 2012
Mkent If everyone liked the same thing, we would only have one car company too. Dr. Chill has his own personal opinion and tastes which is great. I liked the test drive so much, I put an order in for the Model X for my wife while I wait for my Model S!�
Jul 29, 2012
jerry33 Agreed. Well, I learned to drive on my Dad's Lincoln, so a car that big isn't entirely foreign to me--but I never thought I ever be buying a similar sized car
�
Jul 29, 2012
Andrew Wolfe I learned on a SAAB 99 - and that would be just the right sized car for me right now.�
Jul 29, 2012
Tommy I appreciate your candid assessment of the Model S and really glad to see posts like this where the OP can express himself/herself without worrying about getting flamed. It's a good reflection on the membership makeup of TMC.�
Jul 29, 2012
efusco Very practical way to decide, IMO. For me and my ever growing family of 5 the larger vehicle (compared to our Prius) is highly welcome as the kiddos are getting pretty cramped sitting 3 across in that Prius. I've never really been that bothered by large vehicle handling, it's a rare time I can't get even a beast like my old Expedition maneuvered into a space I want.�
Jul 29, 2012
MikeK Definitely to each his own. I've been driving small cars for years (E30 BMW, E36 M3, EV-1, RAV4-EV), so the Model S is clearly much larger. On the other hand, I've driven my mother's (E38) BMW 740 a fair amount, and I believe it is as big as or bigger than the Model S. It took a little getting used to, but I always enjoyed it and never found it to be a problem in parking lots or whatnot. My brief experience driving the Model S suggests that I will enjoy it quite a lot. I hope so!�
Jul 29, 2012
spike09 Dr. Clill should buy a Tesla Roadster for himself and he will know the true meaning of what it is to be a sports car enthusiast. Seems to me the wife wants an Electric Runabout not a sports car. The prescription for her is a Nissan Leaf.�
Jul 29, 2012
7racer At least for me. The Roadster was an eye opening experience. I have 3 sports car for one person. My old RX-7 (modified). My Nissan GTR track beast and the Roadster. Like Chill, I do SCCA events and HPDE's. But those cars that are good for that can be trying on the normal street. The roadster is what it is. Its tail heavy and feels like the rear wants to swing around on you. The nose gets light, and the brakes feel like they should be on a ford fiesta. BUT MAN, the car is fun. Its great to drive around town and to and from work. Flying around a curve and jetting down an on/off ramp.
Dr. Chill, glad you got to take a test drive. I bought the roadster without ever being in the car. What surprised me was what the car doesn't give you in an ICE car it gives you something different. The fast acceleration, low maintenance, etc. makes its such an easy city car to drive.
Maybe as the platform matures, Chill will come back to it. Glad to see you kept your reservation open. Maybe you will do what I just did and put money down on the X. That should deliver something very different than the majority of CUV's out there.�
Jul 29, 2012
dennis Given that she loves the GS F Sport, it sounds to me like she wants a mid-sized electric sport sedan. I don't believe there are any of those on the market yet.�
Jul 29, 2012
dsm363 Wow. Bigger than I thought. They did want this thing to be 5 star so wonder if that had something to do with it.�
Jul 29, 2012
contaygious I'm surprised there isn't more talk about how wide it is. It's wider than a Lamborghini and a hummer and much wider than SUVs. One of the widest cars out there for sure, but width does have its performance benefits even if they can't manage to get some side storage. I'm willing to carefully park it with 4 inches on each side because I love it so much,�
Jul 29, 2012
dsm363 The Hummer H2 is a little wider at 81.2 inches but the Model S is a wide car.�
Jul 29, 2012
49er If she loves the Lexus GS F Sport why are you replacing it?�
Jul 29, 2012
contaygious Mirror to mirror the s is 86.2 isn't it?�
Jul 29, 2012
dsm363 You're right. I'm not sure if that number I found is mirror to mirror on the hummer or not. That seems to be the width with the mirrors folded in.�
Jul 29, 2012
pguerra Everyone has their own reasons. Good that you recognize yours. Knowing yourself is 80% of the battle.
Here are my reasons for buying the Model S that I wrote down like the good nerd I am (in no particular order):
1) Life is short.
2) It is my own personal jihad against terrorism and oil dependence, and maybe even the 70 virgins come later after I buy the car.
3) I dislike going to the gas station b/c I feel like it's a waste of my time (same reason I drive a Prius).
4) I no longer want to feel guilty spending and sending petrodollars out of the US with every gas fill-up.
5) Solar panels on my home's roof means I'm driving on sunshine.
6) It is like an insurance policy from geopolitical and financial crises adversely affecting oil prices.
7) I like tech, and this car is uber-geeky.
8) Earth is our island in the universe and our only one. I want to minimize damaging the planet.
9) I pay a lot of taxes like everyone else, and I only see more food-stamps and free cell phones in the news. Now it's my turn for a government subsidy since Telsa took a $465 million guaranteed, low-interest gov't loan to make this high-tech car happen so I can get it.�
Jul 29, 2012
spike09 The Leaf is in fact a mid-size car, but a 4 door hatchback not a sports sedan. They will put the Leaf drivetrain on an Infinity G series in 2014. I, for one, believe none of the majors pose a threat to the Telsa brand , even if SAAB goes all-electric.�
Jul 29, 2012
Dr Chill Thanks for all the replies. Yes, the roadster is a good choice for me, and before I bought my Cayman S, I was very close to buying a used Roadster. Regarding why I would replace the Lexus that she loves, I placed my deposit for the Model S 8 months before getting the GS, so that was my original plan for a replacement for her Panamera, but that car didn't make it long enough.
The Panamera is a good car to compare it to because it is almost the same length (196") and 1 inch narrower (76" without mirrors) than the Model S. Driving the Panamera, my wife had no issues with the length of the car, but the width made it hard to park and get in and out of our garage. The Tesla S is a wide car and 700 lbs heavier than the Panamera.
All I am saying is that the Model S is a big car, not a mid-size luxury car. At this point in our lives, with grown kids, we are no longer in need of a big car. I didn't really appreciate how big it is until I drove it and parked it in a parking lot along the test drive. Also the car needs to be raised up when parking because the front won't clear the bump-stops or curbs in front.�
Jul 29, 2012
CapitalistOppressor Yes, Model S is definitely not a small car. Get something your wife will enjoy and by the time the GenIII cars are out it'll be time to get her a new car anyways. GenIII should be quite a bit smaller than Model S based on its BMW 3 Series target.
Likely you can get the high performance model with all the bells and whistles in the $60-$70k range. Also, by then the whole SuperCharger situation will be more clarified and the cars themselves will likely be more refined.�
Jul 29, 2012
Dr Chill Tesla is a better designed product IMO because it was engineered from day one as an electric vehicle without all the preconceived concepts in car building, and they are able to manufacture as such, not by adapting an already existing platform.
On your other point, if my wife really loves the Lexus GS, do you really think a Nissan Leaf is a good alternative? Can you imagune her expression when I returned home one day and said, "Honey, I traded your 2013 Lexus GS F Sport for a brand new Nissan Leaf!!!"? I wouldn't get any for a year.
She's keeping the Lexus for a while.�
Jul 29, 2012
Dr Chill I am also # 169 on the Tesla X list.�
Jul 29, 2012
dsm363 Will the Model X be just as wide or will that be your car?�
Jul 29, 2012
contaygious Isn't normal suspension 6 inches. Is that not high enough for parking stops that are 3-4 inches?�
Jul 29, 2012
Dr Chill The Model X would be a second vehicle for me.�
Jul 29, 2012
Dr Chill We pulled up to parking stop, my wife got out in front and looked/said it wouldn't clear. I raised the height and it cleared.�
Jul 29, 2012
Dr Chill I love being an early adopter, but in this case, patience may be beneficial. Future Tesla models may fit our needs better, and better quality vehicles should come with more experience in their manufacturing processes.�
Jul 29, 2012
vfx It IS a big car.
Any what?�
Jul 30, 2012
GeorgeB Hi Dr Chill,
I'm glad you got to test drive Model S.
My hope is that everyone who gets a Model S loves driving it and can't wait to get behind the wheel everyday. I'm headed to Europe for the next two weeks. My Pearl White, Performance Model S will be waiting for me when I get back... and I can't wait! That's how I want everyone with a reservation to feel...everyday.
It sounds to me like Model S doesn't fit your needs right now and the last thing I want you to do is piss off your wife
Please feel free to send me a private message with your contact info and the name on your reservation and I'll get your refund processed for you right away.
Have a great week!
GeorgeB�
Jul 30, 2012
CapitalistOppressor
Thats some 24/7 customer service right there�
Jul 30, 2012
CapitalistOppressor That implies that the current quality is poor, which I would dispute.�
Jul 30, 2012
dsm363 The Lexus GS F Sport dimensions are
Curb Weight AT 3970 lbs
Ground Clearance 5.7
Height 57.9
Length 190.7
Wheelbase 112.2
Width 72.4
It looks like the Model S is 600 lbs heavier and only 6 inches longer. The ground clearance on the Model S seems to be bigger than the Lexus (only 0.3" though). While the 600lbs in significant, I would think the center of gravity on the Model S would be lower than almost any other sedan due to the battery pack. Did you not think the Model S handled well? I only got to go fast for a few seconds on an on-ramp but thought it handled better than my Roadster actually. But as GeorgeB said, if the primary driver isn't happy with the car then it's probably not the car for you at this time.�
Jul 30, 2012
Adm I would dispute your dispute. He thinks future cars will be better than the current cars and I would hope he's right or Tesla will be screwed. (I'd be a little disappointed myself if P171EU will not be slightly better quality than P171US, you'd figure the learning curve would apply here as well)�
Jul 30, 2012
VolkerP I second that. Tesla is a smart company, be assured that lots of improvements for Model S are already on the drawing table. But the car is 97% complete, and a 100% version is about to enter production. I have no doubt that they will feed improvements into the running production for the months to come, but they will no longer delay production for minor alterations to make.
The OP surely does the right thing to bail out if the Model S is to big and feels to heavy to be their daily driver. While the 40kWh Model might be some 200lbs lighter, it will have the same size so no improvement there. The Gen III sedan should be a better match. Good luck with that and Godspeed to Tesla.�
Jul 30, 2012
kevincwelch I'm curious: what cars are people coming from in situations where they feel the Model S is so big? Or do people just feel the car is large in general?
The Model S is about 6 inches longer in all dimensions compared to my Accord. Measured out in my garage, it does not occupy a lot more space. I was hoping it would be as large or larger, since it will serve somewhat as a family car.�
Jul 30, 2012
jerry33 I'm coming from a Prius. The Model S is 20 inches longer and about 8 inches wider. Heck, it won't even fit in my garage so it's car-cover time. (My garage will just hold a Camry with about 6" length to spare).
This is a BIG car (what we called boat cars in Vancouver), but it's the only EV made that can replace an ICE car and I don't want to wait till I'm too old to drive to get the GenIII (and if enough Model S aren't sold, there won't be any Gen III).�
Jul 30, 2012
AustinPowers I come from a BMW 3-series coupe, and the S is gigantic in comparison. For European sized garages and especially inner city parking spaces / parking garages it is just to huge for comfort.
You have to remember that here, in contrast to the US, size DOES matter! (But the other way round than what you would think).�
Jul 30, 2012
ElSupreme Both The Model S will be more than 30" longer and more than 7" wider than my current GTI. Lucky for me I have an absolutely huge 2 car garage. Although I may swap my car and my fiancee's car's position. As the length will make going into and out of the door a little tight otherwise. Plus my circuit breaker is on her side of the garage.
But this thing is huge. Comparatively and just in general. I don't think I will have too hard of a time adapting, as I loved driving my mom's Avalon when she had it.�
Jul 30, 2012
Dr Chill George,
Thanks for your response to my post. I am not going to request a refund until my wife has a chance to actually drive this car since only one driver was allowed during this event, and she didn't want to drive it before I had the chance. I do think the car is very nice , handles well, and is an amazing accomplishment from a startup company. My only complaint really is excessive width and weight. I understand the weight is secondary to a large battery with required cooling, but if it were 6 inches narrower, then I bet the weight would be at least 300 lbs lighter.
In response to the other poster regarding my comment about future cars being better, that's an obvious conclusion based on the experience of virtually every car model ever made. The first model year of a car always has some issues that get addressed as rolling changes on the assembly line and by the dealers after delivery, sometimes as recalls and other times as TSB's. By the second and third year of the model, these issues had been identified, addressed, and are no longer issues. The car then usually has a few additional features added that have become available through their other models or from competitors. That is the nature of the automobile business, constantly improving the technology. I meant in no way to say that the Tesla S is not a quality vehicle. Yes, the fit and finish on some of the early cars may not be up to mass release standards, but this is being addressed.�
Jul 30, 2012
kevincwelch I have been to Europe only a few times, but I do recall the size difference in the vehicles as being one of the most striking differences between American and European driving experiences -- especially in the city. We Americans love everything to be big; unfortunately that includes our posteriors...not a great thing to say the least. :frown:
I have the Accord. Wife has the Subaru Outback. Not big differences. Would probably have to move the lawn mower and the grill out of the garage. Our garage is 22 feet by 22 feet approximately. So, there is room to spare.
If we came to the Model S from our Civics, it would be a huge jump!�
Jul 30, 2012
Dr Chill I absolutely thought it handled well once moving over 20 mph. Under that speed I felt the mass of the vehicle detracting from its maneuverability. Regarding the front clearance, I sure the front fascia was lower to the ground than 6", or maybe the car was lowered by the air suspension since we had just hit about 70 mph along a long sweeping curve. During that curve, the mass and low COG really benefitted the car making it feel planted with very little body roll.
I am not slamming this car. I just wanted people to realize it may not be for everyone, and that it is heavy and large. Looking at the car, its gorgeous lines make it hard to realize exactly how long and wide it is. I didn't truly appreciate this until driving it.
Also, six inches more width in a car and 700 additional pounds is a lot.�
Jul 30, 2012
Norbert How so? Perhaps others can test this in upcoming events as well.
It would be good to clarify the exact ground clearance at different settings of the air suspension (especially at the front).�
Jul 30, 2012
dsm363 I didn't think you were slamming the car. It is good to hear what other people think about the car. It's definitely not the car for everyone (no car is) but hopefully if the Model S doesn't work for you the Gen III car down the road will. Good luck.�
Jul 30, 2012
smorgasbord It's my understanding that the height adjustment is for low speeds only. So, you could keep the car on "high" and it will still lower itself as the speed increase, then raise itself when you slow down, including parking.�
Jul 30, 2012
Larry Chanin Dr.
It was great having lunch with you and Nina Saturday, and I for one appreciate your point of view. Since you are a "car guy" with racing experience I greatly value your analysis regarding the mechanics, etc. However, to me the issue is much more straight forward. Since Nina is going to be the primary driver, she loves her current car, and is uncomfortable with the idea of driving a Model S, it is wise to remain status quo or look else where.
If she hasn't completely ruled out the Model S, it might be useful to get her behind the wheel later when she can spend more time with the car. However, if the width of the car is a primary concern perhaps any further test drives would be pointless, since no matter how much weight the car looses going to the smaller battery pack, its definately not going to get any slimmer. :wink:
Regards,
Larry�
Jul 30, 2012
AustinPowers Funny, I had the exact same experience to other way round, when I came to America for the first time. I was amazed at how huge everything was - from garages to supermarket parking spaces to multiplex cinemas - right down to many people's posteriors :wink:
Then again, many neighbourhoods I visited didn't even have sidewalks, so everywhere you wanted to go you had to use your car.
Which is quite different to here. Our cars may be small, but at least we have loads of sidewalks and cycle paths to keep our posteriors in shape - even though many Germans now seem to imitate the American way of life�
Jul 30, 2012
Larry Chanin Hi George,
Have a safe trip. I just wanted to say how well run the Dania Beach Get Amped event was. Graham, Will, Dustin and Colette and her team did a fantastic job! I just hope that the Palo Alto crew didn't melt in the hot Florida sun. :wink:
Larry�
Jul 30, 2012
nrcooled I have to agree with Dr. Chill on the "weight" of the vehicle at low speeds. What I didn't realize was that the steering was set to sport mode which added a significant amount of heft to the feel of the car. Once it was adjusted to normal it was quite manuverable in the parking lot and through slow speed turns. If the steering feel is the deal breaker then I would suggest driving the car again with the steering weighted to your liking. If the size of the car is the deal breaker then I agree 100% with your decision.
I too have a lot of experience racing cars and motorcycles and driving dynamics are crutial. I never had an expectation of the Model S feeling "light on its feet" so there was no disapointment there. I will say that I was really surprised at how well it did handle in spite of its weight and dimentions.
BTW - My motorcycles will have to get relocated to other parts of the garage to fit the MS in and actually get out of the car�
Jul 30, 2012
Kipernicus I think it's telling that Dr Chill got out of the Panamera because it was too big, and the Model S is even bigger than that. (by 1.3" width and 0.4" length)
I'm coming from a 99 Passat, and the Model S is 8.8" wider and 11.9" longer. Highly motivated to clean out the garage now.
Interestingly, the '12 Passat is only 5.1" narrower and 4.4" shorter than Model S. Cars keep growing. I believe I read that the BMW 1 series is about the size of the 3 series of the 80's.�
Jul 30, 2012
vfx Goldilocks.
Roadster too small*
Model S "Too big."
BluegenlllE "Just right"
*but hellafun.�
Jul 30, 2012
vfx Since the Mr. Blankenship's white S goes to his wife, you can believe him.�
Jul 30, 2012
Norbert Perhaps this means that the software for sport mode can/should be adjusted so that at low speeds it will more like the normal mode is (currently).�
Jul 30, 2012
TEG +1
. . .�
Jul 30, 2012
bonnie -head nod-�
Jul 30, 2012
Jaff I must be much older than you Jerry...to me, Boat cars were Lincoln town cars, Mercury Marquis & Meteors, and such...:biggrin:
,�
Jul 30, 2012
tander Does it really have 8000 mi tires?�
Jul 30, 2012
dsm363 The 21" wheels have tires that should last twice that.�
Jul 30, 2012
Dr Chill Porsche Panamera with 20" Pirelli P Zero Rosso Treadwear rating 300-rear tires replaced at 8000 miles, fronts at 10,000 miles. Cost Average $450 per tire plus tax and installation.Inability to rotate the tires due to staggered sizes accounts for the difference, but the Model S weighs over 600 lbs more which should increase tire wear. I highly doubt the 21" tires, which should cost even more, will last more than 10-12,000 miles. None of the low profile Z rated summer tires I have owned on multiple cars over the past 8 years have lasted over 12,000 miles.
The 19" all season tires will last significantly longer. Frequent tire rotation should help tire life.�
Jul 30, 2012
shokunin The OEM 21 continental ExtremeContact tires on the Model S go for $247 each on tire rack.�
Jul 30, 2012
dsm363 There are people on tirereack.com reporting over 15,000-20,000 miles on these tires but I didn't think about the weight. I'm hoping they last at least 10,000 miles.�
Jul 30, 2012
stopcrazypp The 21" wheels come with Continental Extreme Contact DW 245/35R21 tires. From the reviews, they should last at least 10k miles, but might not last much beyond that (although some have taken it to 20k+ and beyond).
http://reviews.conti-online.com/7501-en_us/3377486/extremecontact-dw-reviews/reviews.htm
http://www.tirerack.com/survey/SurveyComments.jsp?additionalComments=y&commentStatus=P&tireMake=Continental&tireModel=ExtremeContact+DW&fromTireDetail=true&tirePageLocQty=
Definitely the all seasons will last much longer.�
Jul 30, 2012
Dr Chill I must say, I never checked the steering settings, but the steering feel is not primarily what I am talking about. From a stop in a slow moving environment like a parking lot, the mass of the car requires significant throttle input to get moving and once up and running it is fine. Trying to make sharp turns into parking spaces from a stop or pulling out from the spaces is where you feel the weight. When I drive the car again, I'm going to really try out the different settings.
I really want my wife to buy in on this car. I want a Tesla Model S. I don't want an unhappy wife though. I'll post another thread after my next more in depth test drive.�
Jul 30, 2012
Dr Chill I am incorrect. These tires are only $247 at tirerack. They seem to be somewhat of a bargain compared to the 295/35/20 Pirellis on our Panamera.�
Jul 30, 2012
Jason S I'm showing 220 rating for those tires on 20". The Contis are rated for 340. So extrapolating 8000 miles on 220 rating to a 340 rating... 12000 miles should be about average.
Oh, and I also agree the size of this car matters quite a bit. Also a 'clean the garage' thing for me. :redface:�
Jul 30, 2012
ddenboer The Continental Extreme Contact DW 245/35R21 tires are $227 at sears, but I have seen them for $206.�
Jul 31, 2012
jerry33 Those are certainly boat cars as well, but had you lived in Vancouver, you'd have a wider definition. Unlike the rest of North America, you seldom see a car that's bigger than a mid-sized car in Vancouver. (At least that was true when I lived there, things could have changed.)�
Jul 31, 2012
jerry33 I believe this is just how electric drive works. With the Prius in reverse you get the same feeling and the Prius weighs significantly less than the Model S. (Reverse because reverse in the Prius is all electric). It's something to get used to but not, in my opinion, a deficiency. My test drive in the Leaf was too short to notice this (and I wasn't looking for it at the time).�
Aug 1, 2012
systemr the contisport contact 3s on my 987 boxster lasted 22K miles until I corded them, and this included a few track days. I must not be driving hard enough�
Aug 1, 2012
systemr wear rating indexes don't carry over from manufacturer to manufacturer, they are indexed at 100 for a specific manufacture. so you can only compare tires from the same company.�
Aug 1, 2012
Dr Chill No, your 987 weighhs 3000 lbs. Not a reasonable comparison.�
Aug 1, 2012
jerry33 Not true. Just like the EPA mpg numbers a set procedure must be used to determine the number and the there are random checks done. However, a tire manufacturer can use a lower number than they found doing the test. For the first few years of the UTQG system Michelin rated all it's tires (other then the lowest wearing ones) at one number. They don't do that anymore marketing being what it is.�
Aug 1, 2012
brianman Interesting. Didn't know that. Kind of sucks, speaking as a consumer.�
Aug 1, 2012
jerry33 But it's not true.�
Aug 1, 2012
jerry33 The UTQG tire information:
To assist consumers purchasing new vehicles or replacement tires, NHTSA has rated more than 2,400 lines of tires, including most used on passenger cars, minivans, SUVs and light pickup trucks. Consumers can select a tire brand from the drop-down menu below.
The control tire is selected by the government, not by the tire manufacturer:
Here is an example: a tire with a UTQG of 300 AB. The 300 is treadwear, which represents the tire's comparative wear when measured against the government-mandated tire which is rated at 100.�
Aug 1, 2012
SCW-Greg I guess size is a relative thing... my Toyota Avalon is a mid-size car, but measures nearly identical to the Model S (just 3" slimmer, and 2" taller, same length). It's turning radius was/is great, as we had to pull into a drive way, and back up and turn around during our test drive due to traffic issues and road construction. It handled extremely well at low speeds and in tight spaces... and we had nearly a half hour driving the car. I was pleased.
But like it's been said here already... everyone has their tastes and certain expectations that must be met in their cars.
I'm hoping that I'll have another chance or two to drive the car, before my production time comes due. Hopefully to drive it a night, for one.�
Aug 1, 2012
Dr Chill Looking at the Avalon specs on the toyota site, it lists the width as 72.8", length 197.6", and curb weight as 3572 lbs. An extra 4.5" of width and 1100 lbs is a big difference in my opinion. How does your Avalon move around with 4 250 pound occupants and 2 big suitcases. Just a wee bit more mass I'd say.�
Aug 1, 2012
SCW-Greg Yeah, it's not often (if ever), that I've had 4 adults riding in our Avalon. Usually just our two children (7 and 9). Not that I was critiquing the Model S from a parking lot perspective, I just found no surprises in its handling characteristics - other than it felt very solid (not in a heavy way, but in a strong way), and very quiet.
I also have a 2006 Cadillac DTS, that's a full size car, and you know it... plus its turning radius is horrible. It's also about 18" longer (visually). Not to mention wider and taller.
I've also had a 95 S500 - that, that felt like a tank. It was a car meant for the autobahn, a highway cruiser, and not to the grocery store! It had a 26 gallon tank on it too.�
Aug 1, 2012
dsm363 I thought the Model S handled fine at low speeds. Having power steering again is a big step forward at low speeds so maybe that was it.�
Aug 1, 2012
smorgasbord Not wider than Model S, though.�
Aug 1, 2012
jerry33 I believe most of the Get Amped drives were with the steering set to sport. With the steering set lighter, low speed maneuvering should be easy.�
Aug 1, 2012
kcveins You got 1/2 hour with this?? I only got 7 mins here in Chicago - the test "track" was only a touch over 4 miles!�
Aug 1, 2012
SCW-Greg Yeah, due to a wreck or something on the road, our highway drive segment was more of stop and go segment. Followed by let's find an alternate route out of here - explore mode.
Here's the video of our drive... http://youtu.be/Px2OVJDajMQ
@smorgasboard, thanks. You're right. Dimensions are 207 x 74.8w x 57.6h�
Aug 1, 2012
Dr Chill We also had a 97 S500 tank. Length-199", width-75", weight-4686 lbs. My wife commented she thought the Model S rode like this car with a vaultlike solid feel on the road at speed although the Tesla dramatically handled better on turns. She just remembered what a pain it was to use for running around town and doing errands/food shopping etc. And the Tesla S is 2" wider. I just hope the Model S 40kW drives lighter so I can think of getting it as a second car for me. Maybe she'd learn to love it then and we can ditch her Lexus.�
Aug 1, 2012
dsm363 Do you mean the weight or the width made it a pain to run errands? The electric powertrain and the one pedal driving might actually make it better for errands around town. I'm not sure the 40kWh version will feel any better. Definitely take a longer drive and try the different steering settings. Maybe that was it. The frunk will also be a nice feature for shopping I think.�
Aug 1, 2012
SCW-Greg The S500 was just a car that felt and acted massive. It had plenty of power, very solid, really quiet, really smooth, and the turning radius not great, but wasn't overly bad - considering the ultra long wheel base. My DTS is worse. With the S500 it was just a matter of getting mass in motion. It wasn't spry and nimble. It wasn't meant to be.
I think the Model S is a perfect balance - for an all-round car. Certainly not a Nissan Leaf, which in my mind is really just a metro car. I don't think the Model S was ever designed to be just a city car. With the big battery packs and all, this car was meant for longer drives.�
Aug 2, 2012
jkirkebo There should be an "adaptive" setting, where there is full steering boost at low speeds and low boost at high speeds, ramping down gradually with speed.
My guess it will appear in time, in a software update.�
Aug 2, 2012
qwk My wife sat in the back seat during both the Leaf and Model S drives, and her comment was that the leaf backseat "must not be meant to seat adults".�
Aug 2, 2012
jkirkebo Weird. I have a Leaf, and when I adjust the front seat for myself (I'm 6'2") I sit quite comfortable in the back seat "behind myself". It is certainly better than most backseats I've tried, though I don't know many people with big BMWs or Mercedes cars�
Aug 2, 2012
SCW-Greg Our driving Rep did say it is speed sensitive steering, as well the steering ratios change with the mode settings too.�
Aug 2, 2012
jkirkebo Ok, probably just too heavy at low speeds in the "sport" setting then.�
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