Dec 12, 2012
Rob Fairman I'm wondering whether Tesla should hand over a Model S to Top Gear or not. There is obviously bad blood after the whole Roadster kerfuffle, but with the raft of awards the S is getting it may inoculate them from Top Gear making stuff up about the car. What do you think?�
Dec 12, 2012
Arnold Panz "Kerfuffle"?! That's a nice way to describe a lawsuit that I'm sure cost both parties a pretty penny.
The only reason for Tesla to subject itself to these idiots and charlatans again is if they needed to sell cars. As Elon has repeatedly stated, they have a supply problem, not a demand problem. If in a year or two they find themselves without reservations then they should perhaps consider it, but I see very little upside for Tesla giving Top Gear a Model S to review when their entire argument during the lawsuit was that these guys are frauds and make stuff up. It's not quite as credible as winning an award from MT, Automobile Magazine, Yahoo! Autos etc. I don't think a positive review on Top Gear is going to add a lick of credibility for Tesla.�
Dec 12, 2012
richkae Since Top Gear is scripted, if I were Tesla I would just demand script approval. I don't think it will happen.�
Dec 12, 2012
tdelta1000 Good one.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2�
Dec 12, 2012
artsci My view is that Tesla should tell the Top Gear clowns to shove it. If they want to review a Model S they should place a reservation and stand in line behind the rest of us.�
Dec 12, 2012
Al Sherman Me too. No need to hold grudges, but: "fool me once..."�
Dec 12, 2012
mnx I love the show unlike many here and I wouldn't be surprised to see Top Gear get a hold of a Model S and do something similar (run it out of juice, or at least pretend to).
Hopefully at least TG USA gets a car to have fun with.
FYI There have already been threads on this.
Here's one: Will Season 19 of Top Gear feature a Performance Model S?�
Dec 12, 2012
Discoducky We've had heated discussions about this, but the basic consensus is that TM won't be working with BBC and Top Gear anytime soon. But they can't stop Jeremy from buying one and running it around their track. Personally, I would love to see the stig run it around. Especially if they race it against some other ICE cars like the M5 and A7. This kind of publicity is, IMHO, generally good for the brand all up. Everyone knows the show is scripted but at the end of the day the Lap Times are considered sacred and not manipulated.�
Dec 12, 2012
sublimaze1 Ha. Top Gear ... BBC ... Clarkson ... Script approval? (No offense - offence - to my UK brethren) but I am saying ... er ... NO.�
Dec 12, 2012
vfx Motor Week just did a review with a local owner's car.�
Dec 12, 2012
Norbert I suppose before Tesla could support a Top Gear review by "handing over" a Model S, Top Gear would have to stop distributing/re-broadcasting the faulty Roadster review.�
Dec 12, 2012
Grendal Top Gear will likely buy or borrow a Model S and do a review. Tesla can't stop them from saying anything they like about the car except for outright lies.
It's possible they actually like the car. They liked the Roadster but fudged the truth to make their own personal point about EVs. I expect they would have the same problem with the Model S and it would become a hit piece on EV's too.�
Dec 12, 2012
tenstringer009 I agree with others that have said Top Gear may just go out on their own and acquire one. It wouldn't be the first them they've done that either; as I recall, they went out and bought a Challenger SRT8 after Chrysler wouldn't loan them one for a road trip in CA/NV.�
Dec 12, 2012
artsci Really? You have that much faith in the honesty of television and this show? I don't believe it for a minute. The driver, after all, can manipulate the track times just by the way he drives. This show is populated by carbon and fossil fuel junkies. There's no way they're going to let an EV have anything approaching a top lap time.�
Dec 13, 2012
Tharo I have no doubt that if he refuses to leave tesla car at top gear, the program then people will take the opportunity to make a joke with that and get a test drive posing as a stranger with a hidden camera recording everything. This is already happening with proof of where the brand Rover City refused to let a car.�
Dec 13, 2012
ToddRLockwood Top Gear needs the Model S more than the Model S needs Top Gear.�
Dec 13, 2012
darthy001 I think you should check Top Gear ratings worldwide. It gets around 350million viewers worldwide so I think they can live quite well without Tesla.
A positive review on Top Gear on the other hand would at least have some effect on Tesla. Top Gear could live extremely well without Tesla. If Tesla succeeds and dominate the world in a few years then it would of course be another story.
Personally I love Top Gear and laughed a lot when they tested the roadster. If you dont watch the show regularly you might think its a car program. But it isnt. Its a program made by guys who happen to like carsI expected the Tesla review to be just like it was. If you know these guys views on EVs then you cant possibly be surprised. If you want unbiased and thourough consumer advice on cars then you are better of watching another show.
I would never base any purchasing decision on a car solely based on a Top Gear review.
If they want to test the Tesla Model S they will. Several cars have been borrowed or purchased over the years to be tested on that show when the manufacturer didnt want to lend them a car for some reason. So Tesla can refuse, but mr.Clarkson will get a hold of one if he feels like it. Its as easy as that.�
Dec 13, 2012
Citizen-T Most of this is true, but I agree, Top Gear needs the Model S. They will look pretty irrelevant if they never review the car that everyone else is awarding car of the year. Agree that they will probably just get one on their own, or buy a random beat up used car and call it a Model S then review that (gangster episode was awesome).
Also agree that Model S does not need Top Gear, though, it'd be nice.�
Dec 13, 2012
Todd Burch If you've watched the show, you know that Top Gear does not do car reviews. It is clearly for entertainment. I'll admit I watch the show and find it funny...but you have to recognize that it is in fact entertainment, and not a serious car program.
When the Roadster was on Top Gear, the negative script was damaging to Tesla's namesake--the cars are rare, the company was new, etc.
But with the Model S, it has won several legitimate automotive awards and has relentlessly been praised by automotive journalists. At this point, I'm not sure I'd care at all whether Top Gear criticized the car or not. There's enough serious review out there (Motor Trend, Consumer Reports, etc.) that Tesla's name wouldn't be hurt by a bunch of silly stunts.
I teach weekly classes around the world and am always surprised and pleased with how many of my students have heard of Tesla. I'm even more pleased by the number of my students that wish they had one. Clearly the word is getting out.
PS: I'd LOVE to see them turn off traction control and go crazy with a Model S. Even if they burn through the battery in 50 miles...it would be fun to see them tear up a few tires!�
Dec 13, 2012
darthy001 [FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]Point is that Top Gear isnt even close to reviewing all of the cool cars out there in the world. Especially not all American cars since they "only go straight forward and cant handle bends"...They dont really care about being relevant eiher. Quite the opposite actually as they play the "out of style uncool old-dudes"-routine all the time. They just care about themselves and making an entertainng show. They even make fun of most cars being crowned european car of the year. So winning awards is far from a given recipe for how to get a car reviewed on Top Gear. In many cases just the opposite. And I've seen all episodes of the rebooted Top Gear. Old Top Gear was a more regular car show with actual reviews. New Top Gear is pure entertainment.
I dont think many people would react if Top Gear never even mentioned the Model S. If they didnt test the new Maclaren, Ferrari, Lambo etc then people would really react... Not testing an electric car on a show made by and for "petrol-heads" isnt really surprising in my book.
Ps! Seems like I wrote the word "they" twice in each sentence here�
Dec 13, 2012
Discoducky Yes, really, as those lap times are scrutinized as a relative data point and supported by other lap times at other tracks. If TG posts a lap time for Model S it will be legit. The rest of the show is for ratings so anything goes.
Make no mistake, the petrol-heads know this car is the real deal and that the very first iteration may supplant the current TG best luxury performance sedan.
But no on television in general.�
Dec 13, 2012
Grendal I don't remember them doing a review of the Volt/Ampera and that is the first car to win Car of the Year and European Car of the Year. It was reviewed by the website but the guys never "had fun" with it.�
Dec 13, 2012
sublimaze1 Bottom line: Jeremy doesn't love anything, anywhere, anytime - unless it is from the UK, and then he simply dislikes it. I only watch the show for Captain Slow and the Stig. Okay, Hamster is okay, but only when he is talking about Oliver.�
Dec 13, 2012
Grendal I agree about the lap times. I'm not sure that the Model S would blow away every luxury performance sedan on their track. The Model S isn't a track car and while it will do awesome on the curves and short sprints there are some long straitaways on the track too, with it's limited top speed, the S might lose time there.�
Dec 13, 2012
darthy001 +1 as an example of my point about them not caring about other awards. More than once they have done the opposite and made fun of other awards saying they are stupid. European car of the year is the most relevant example there. They make fun of that award almost every year.
Edit: was supposed to quote Grendals response about Volt not beeing reviewed.�
Dec 13, 2012
PV4EV Anyone can hire the Dunsfold "Top Gear" track � so that�s what Ultima did when TG wouldn't review one of their cars, probably because it would obliterate just about every other expensive car on the planet, and cause the likes of Ferrari to withdraw their support �
Very few prestigious hyper cars get below 1m20s, but Ultima managed to get a blistering 1m12s with road tyres on (and 6 seconds quicker than a Veyron!) and an amazing 1m09s with slicks ..
Maybe Tesla Europe should arrange for a Stig (there's one or two "retired" ones out there�) to set a cracking lap in an MSP85 and put it on Youtube before TG get a chance to bugger it up ??!!
The track is only 1.7miles long, so a road going Roadster or a Model S will not go into power-limited mode. An original Roadster 1.5 (?) did a respectable 1m27.2s on a damp track, which would have been nearer 1:23 / 1:24 in the dry, putting it right up there with the best from many other exotic brands.
2 yrs ago I got the chance to belt around the TG track in a Roadster, and surprisingly it held its own against some other so called super cars on the track. It felt kinda sweet given all the Tesla / TG legal stuff going on at the time. Evidence :-
�
Dec 13, 2012
Anzir I love Top Gear for what it is -- a buddy show that happens to focus on cars. That being said, I wouldn't want an S in their hands because they (Clarkson mainly) love running jokes, and I don't want Tesla to become one of those. The reviews are purely for entertainment and are not based 100% on facts.�
Dec 13, 2012
brianman No way I'd lend them my car. The impression I get is that they'd brick it on purpose "for entertainment" and I'd be out a vehicle.�
Dec 13, 2012
vfx Would not be hard. Colin loves Tesla's Roadster.�
Dec 13, 2012
Grendal Colin loves EV's period. He gave a glowing review of the Leaf on Fifth Gear. My favorite review of the Roadster was done on Fifth Gear too. Tiff covers the range display and just drives it. That was a true test of Tesla and removed the range anxiety from the picture.�
Dec 13, 2012
Yggdrasill I love this idea!
Simply ignoring Top Gear just gives them an opportunity to make fun of Tesla. Striking first is brilliant. Also, Tesla should make sure Fifth Gear gets a chance to drive one before Top Gear does. Preferably in the US, yesterday.�
Dec 13, 2012
Discoducky Cool! Private track for testing, filming, corporate days training
This does look like TM could do this:
From car testing and filming to driver training and customer workshops, the track can be hired for varying periods at costs that won't puncture your plans.�
Dec 13, 2012
ToddRLockwood Seems to me that the Automobile Magazine YouTube drag race has been worth more to Tesla than a Top Gear appearance would be.�
Dec 13, 2012
Grendal 350 million viewers worldwide means that a favorable Top Gear review would have a larger impact over a YouTube video. I don't actually see the guys doing an outright hit piece on the Model S unless something actually went horribly wrong. If they do a review and nothing goes wrong then I can see them just generically disliking the EV aspect to the car as they did with the Roadster. My gut says they will actually love the car just like it has won over other petrolheads.
Time will tell.�
Dec 14, 2012
brianman I do. In some circles, it's still "hip" to be "contrarian". Getting attention by finding a reason to show "all these magazine guys calling it car of the year" to be "wrong".�
Dec 14, 2012
jackie I would vote for a Fifth Gear review and to have Sabine Schmitz take a Model S around Nurburgring. (She was the lady that showed Clarkson how to drive the Jaguar around Nurburgring)�
Dec 14, 2012
darthy001 Would the Model S make it round the Ring without overheating and going into limp-mode? we are talking at least 8minutes around there I would think.�
Dec 14, 2012
PV4EV I'd be amazed if it could put in an 8 min ring lap.
Amongst other things, the Model S was designed as a road car with efficiency in mind, capable of providing occasional bursts of amazing acceleration on the road etc. It does not have all the additional weight and costly engineering needed to keep the motor, pack and electronics cool for sustained track use around a 13/14 mile track, and would most likely not put in an 8 min lap unless its handling is amazing enough to carry high average speeds through all the 175+ corners.
But just like many ICE cars, I suspect that a special track version could be built with beefed up braking, masses off attention given to cooling of the pack, and motor, power wiring, electronics, etc. However, Tesla aren't selling cars based on any racing heritage or pretentions so I doubt they will prove that point.
They are making amazing cars that just happen to be electric and capable of using no fossil fuels, and chargeable from renewable sources like solar, wind, hydro ��
Dec 14, 2012
jackie I was thinking of the Top Gear episode where they took a standard production Jaguar S-type on the ring and asked Clarkson to do it in under 10 minutes. So not a special car at all.
So are you now saying that the Model S is not capable of driving flat out on country roads for more than 10 minutes ?�
Dec 14, 2012
darthy001 According to the M5 vs Model S thread here on TMC it would seem difficult to post anything close to a great lap on the ring in a standard Model S. It simply isnt a racecar. In addition to the potential overheating issues I also think the limited topspeed of the Model S would hurt it on the ring.
A lap around the top gear track is another story.�
Dec 14, 2012
NotTarts Inside Line noticed a 0.3 second difference between their first and last runs while doing 0-60 mph 6 times in a short period of time. IIRC that's A LOT better than the Roadster so the cooling system should be up to the job but it definitely looks like motor power is throttled (no pun intended) when it's pushed hard enough. It's yet to be seen what those limits are but it's not unrealistic to expect that overheating could become an issue.�
Dec 14, 2012
vfx
The script is written likely before the even get the a car for "review". They have to talk with glowing reviews about how great it is then just as you think you have to have one they then rip the car apart for all of it's "faults". (the order gets flipped but the 1/2 hate, 1/2 love result is the same.)
When they got the Roadster and the Stig (Collins) drove and raved about it, did they say nicer things than they had planned to? We may never know.
What they did do was end the Roadster review with a bought-and-paid-for discussion about how great the coming hydrogen cars will be.�
Dec 14, 2012
Oyvind.H Country roads are completely different from a race track. No sane person wolud drive on open road the way they drive on the N�rnburgring.
The Model S will probably manage to drive at top speed until the battery is empty because of the cooling airflow, but continious braking and max acceleration on a racetrack won`t work.�
Dec 14, 2012
Al Sherman +1 I drive like an old man but love the idea that my car can CRUSH the M5!�
Dec 14, 2012
dpeilow The Stig was Ben Collins...
For all the people that say Top Gear is just an entertainment show, you should hear the number of otherwise sensible engineers that parrot their FUD like it's gospel.
When my brother worked for Renault, he said that a bad review sunk a model that never sold another unit at their dealership.�
Dec 14, 2012
vfx To this day I can tell someone how amazing my Tesla is and they will say "Ooouummm, I don't know, didn't Top Gear give that car a bad review?"
It's not just a bad review of a Renault, they might have killed a fledgling company. I think that's why Tesla had to sue.�
Dec 15, 2012
Ron95030 It's my understanding that the liquid cooled pack, motor rotor and power electronics make cooling no longer an issue for the MSP85. When European deliveries begin, perhaps TM will prepare a 'special version' for a Nuernburgring run. Engineering will be certainly interested in learning what the limitations (weak points) are, for future enhancements or even production changes.
Why do you assert that repeated braking and acceleration wouldn't "work"?�
Dec 15, 2012
mcornwell A member took their Model S to a track day event and experienced reduced power after a short amount of hard driving. I don't think it was clear as to which component was experiencing too much heat, the car didn't identify which part if the car it was.�
Dec 16, 2012
jackie Didn't they identify that the issue was that the car hadn't been fully charged at the time ?
I thought that Jaguar tested their vechicles on the N�rnburgring.
As a Jaguar owner I received an invitation from Jaguar for a day out to drive my car there.
So I agree with Ron95030 that it would be a useful exercise for Tesla and interesting for us.�
Dec 16, 2012
vfx Everyone should brace themselves for another Tesla that is a poor track car. Top speeds over 130 MPH and driving the car at it's limits for long periods does not seem to be important for Tesla.
And that's OK.
I know that, "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday" is one way of moving vehicles off car lots but the fact that Tesla does not even have car lots should show that Tesla is doing things differently.�
Dec 16, 2012
Grendal Agreed. It's my hope that Tesla will go the extra step with the next Roadster. The Model S is a sedan. It has lots of areas where it is spectacular and lots of performance for those that want it. But I think that you need to design the car with "track use" in mind with an upgraded cooling system. I'd expect to see that in future versions of the S for an extra cost. I definitely expecxt it to be in the new Roadster when it comes out.
This is what happened with the original Roadster too. There are performance improvements between Roadster version 1 and 2.5.�
Dec 17, 2012
Brian H Well, there's a Brit expression "give someone the gears", for lie to, bamboozle, agitate, abuse. So if you're getting the "Top" Gear, you're really being "wound up and sent up"!�
Dec 17, 2012
Brian H Jackie Stewart? Is that you?�
Dec 17, 2012
montgom626 Top Gear will bash it because it is built and designed in the USA.�
Jul 16, 2013
GenIIIOwner If not already known on this forum, rumor has it that Model S will face a Mercedes S550 in Season 4 of TGUSA on History Channel showing this fall.
TG USA Season 4 Spoiler (don't read if you don't want to know)�
Jul 16, 2013
HHHH Look forward to seeing that, but I really wish it was on the original UK Top Gear.�
Oct 18, 2013
Newscutter Rumor true!
Here's the preview clip:
http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/10/18/top-gear-first-look/?cmpid=Social_Facebook_TopGear_10182013_1�
Oct 19, 2013
DIL looks promising. DVR set�
Oct 19, 2013
AWDtsla 750-ish Wh/mile will do�
1/1/2015
guest Tonight Top Gear UK had a Model S owner Will Smith on the show. They did talk about his first car but Jeremy seems to have avoided what he drives now. I would assume that it's on purpose. Or maybe he did ask, and then they edited it out.
Given how much celebrities love the Model S, how long can they keep this up?�
Feb 16, 2015
grahamsimmonds I don't think you want Top Gear reviewing the Model S. After watching Jeremy Clarkson review the BMW I8 tonight and making a complete hash of trying to plug it into a public charging point, I think the outcome would be fairly predictable.
What I did find interesting was the claim that the I8 only does 31mpg and only has a 7 gallon capacity fuel tank - that equates to a little over 200 miles range. If that claim is true then the car is nothing more than a gas guzzler with an electric motor installed for political correctness. I wonder if a few of those on that year long waiting list may well reconsider their purchase?�
Feb 16, 2015
gavine Here's why we don't want TG to review Model S.
�
Feb 16, 2015
bollar That's almost a gushing review of the SLS ED. Range and cost are the only complaints? He seemed to like the 3.9 sec 0-60!
120 miles on a 60 kWh battery make it suitable for all but the most extreme commutes!�
Feb 16, 2015
skilly perfectly said. This show is brilliantly done to showcase the love of cars; its not a consumer reports conduit. How many of their 350M viewers are in the market for the LaFerrari they just took for a hard run...maybe 2? Its entertainment and I expected the same review on the Roadster as well....funny, this contempt in the thread its like they were supposed to be giving an honest review. It was just for entertainment.
Watching Top Gear for real consumer reporting style feedback on a car is akin to watching The Daily Show and expecting real news. sigh.
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you have got to be kidding me. Its doing a great job of promoting the EV as a kick ass car. He even makes fun of himself taking back his reference to it being a blender during the drag race. Battery range and cost are very typical issues for most consumers and I dont think anyone (even TM) has it right yet. Ease up a bit!!�
Feb 16, 2015
1208 As highlighted in another thread, http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/33405-Top-Gear-s-Richard-Hammond-reviews-model-S Hammond has tested it for his newspaper but not for the Topgear show.�
Feb 16, 2015
SwedishAdvocate I watched The Daily Show quite a lot a while back, and back then it was pretty darn spot on. And somehow I don't think that has changed...�
Feb 16, 2015
AnOutsider Except, it's not billed as "this is just entertainment and isn't factual" is it? If they present something as fact on a show like this, folks will believe it. If this were a sitcom, then yeah, folks would expect something like a silly gag, but on a REVIEW show? Come on.�
Feb 16, 2015
bxr140 Lol. But don't worry, people that watch top gear get it. :wink:
If someone is incapable of assessing the entertainment value versus the consumer value of that show on their own theres not much you can do, as they will be similarly incapable of understanding any subsequent attempts to explain the difference.
For more on this topic, Google: 'slapstick'.�
Feb 16, 2015
SwedishAdvocate I disagree. As this person put it:
A statement from Clarkson on Top Gear about the BMW halo car i8 in what is clearly one of the shows semi-serious review segments will influence the general public when it comes to electric cars in general. So why does the BBC/Clarkson have to flat out lie?�
Feb 16, 2015
skilly you mean like The Daily Show does? ummmm....�
Feb 16, 2015
tga Come on, do you really think a show that "reviews" a Toyota Hilux pickup like this can be viewed as anything but entertainment?
�
Feb 16, 2015
SwedishAdvocate That's not the segment we're debating.�
Feb 16, 2015
skilly oh are you talking about the segments about what to drive if you're a russian mobster? The home built modified car (complete with a squeaky toy behind the brake pedal) designed for old people, or the segments in general about their love for caravans?�
Feb 16, 2015
darthy001 Top Gear is not a review show. It is honestly much more close to a sitcom with scripted dialogue, skits, gags and all. Most episodes dont have anything related to what people would consider a review.
And when they do "review" cars Clarkson is screaming "powwwwweeeeeeeeeeeeer" most of the time driving the car round and round a small track on an airfield.
When Top Gear first started it was indeed a review show, but that is many many years ago. Now its just show and humour.
You guys in the US are taking it way more seriously than what they deserve. In their own words they are just three fat old farts who love cars. They simply play into all possible stereotypes usually connected to men who loves cars. And sadly that includes a whole lot of guys disliking EVs.
Its an act! They are "petrolheads". Liking an EV is like blasphemy in those circles.
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I am assuming those who think Top Gear is to be taken seriously havent actually watched an entire episode...
Top Gear and caravans are classic�
Feb 16, 2015
SwedishAdvocate No. I'm talking about the segment where Clarkson debates whether to pick the M3 or the i8 � the one i referenced in post #69 above.
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IMO you are oversimplifying.�
Feb 16, 2015
darthy001 Well, Top Gear is as simple as it gets..... So..�
Feb 16, 2015
skilly I understand...you said that The Daily Show was a good source for news too�
Feb 16, 2015
bxr140 Cred = lost! There is no such thing as 'serious' on that show. That's the whole point!�
Feb 16, 2015
SwedishAdvocate Yes I did. Have you seen The Daily Show? :wink:
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You've got a point. Sometimes I guess it shows that English is just a second language... I guess semi-serious is a better word (I've corrected that.) � they did after all quote a (UK)MPG figure...
Have you seen that segment (the one with the M3 & the i8)?�
Feb 16, 2015
marchyman A prototypical Top Gear review: The Reliant Robin
"naught to 50: about 22 seconds... naught to 60: not really possible"
Rolling a Reliant Robin - Top Gear - BBC - YouTube�
Feb 16, 2015
SwedishAdvocate They also do stuff like the M3/i8 segment that I've mentioned a couple of times now. But for some reason nobody seems to be able to comment on that segment.
Hmm...
I wonder why...�
Feb 16, 2015
tga I forgot about the Reliant Robin episode. That was a good one, too.
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OK, Jeremy looks like a bumbling idiot in that clip. Again, it's all for entertainment. If someone seriously decides not to buy an i8 because of what they saw on Top Gear, they are stupid. Arguably too stupid to drive. Possibly too stupid to remember to breathe.�
Feb 16, 2015
SwedishAdvocate BBC/Clarkson deliberately fabricates what happens at the charging station. Again: A statement from Clarkson on Top Gear about the BMW halo car i8 in what is clearly one of the shows semi-serious review segments will influence the general public when it comes to electric cars in general.
�Which is too bad since Clarkson apparently is firmly on board with AGW, and also apparently almost ready to pay a price as a consequence, but for some reason decides to backtrack on that decision.
To sum it up: �bumbling idiot� seems a bit harsh. He actually wasn�t that far from coming off as rather reasonable. Too bad we had to wait until 2015��
Feb 16, 2015
stopcrazypp Not every segment of the show is presented as a complete joke (nor do people take it as such). And there are plenty of people who take "facts" as presented on the show as actual facts (this is especially true for things they are unfamiliar with, like EVs).�
Feb 16, 2015
skilly Ah yes, the same segment that believed there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. I think tga made a reference to the level of brain power going on to think thats the case...Im just hoping that they don't quality for the drivers license. I would hate to meet them on the road while they are remembering which one is the "go" pedal and which one is the "stop".�
Feb 16, 2015
bxr140 And again, your assessment that there is a serious aspect is incorrect. It is purely an entertainment show. Everything you see is poured over by writers and producers and cut together to maximize the entertainment value. Just like basically everything else on the teevee. Anything genuine or factual is there only because it increases viewer interest.
The m3/i8 clip is no different.
And so what if some weaker minded folks in the general public don't understand the distinction and instead use those 'facts' to shape their thoughts? Thats the way the free world works, and who are you or I or anyone to stop them or the entertainment outlets?
Truth will out.�
Feb 16, 2015
napabill Used to watch it every week. Haven't watched it once since the Roadster nonsense.�
Feb 16, 2015
stopcrazypp It's our role to inform those misinformed or the lies will become fact in people's minds. Ever heard of the phrase "A lie told often enough becomes the truth"?
No matter how many people brush off Top Gear as "just an entertainment show," I think it plays a big role in shaping the UK's view of EVs and the weak EV sales there shows the effects.�
Feb 16, 2015
Nichen I would say that people are pretty stupid in general and I really do believe
That most people don't understand the difference between the battery tech from
The 90s from today. When it comes to cars. The only thing we should do is to promote
Free test rides.�
Feb 17, 2015
grahamsimmonds Yes, the on-screen persona of Jeremy is one of a self-opinionated, obstinate dinosaur. But he is no fool. You just may not like what he says and a lot of the humour is very English which may not translate well in other countries.
However, like the Roadster review, the I8 review was largely positive. The charging scene was perhaps unnecessary as I doubt many I8 owners are going to bother to do that. However, like the Roadster review, the sting was in the tail of the review with the reported 31 mpg and tiny 7 gallon tank. Anybody spending $130k on an I8 is going to do some research after seeing Top Gear because they are not stupid. And it does not take long before you find out that others are reporting as low as 24 mpg which will give a 200 mile range on a tank of petrol. However, I think most I8 owners won't care about that either.
The only difference here is that BMW won't sue. They got their car on Top Gear and they know how important that is. Tesla has missed an opportunity to become a household name because of their obstinacy and have not helped the cause of EVs either.�
Feb 17, 2015
J1mbo There was some research a few years ago that concluded that cars reviewed on Top Gear generally underperformed in the market after the review.
So maybe there is a silver lining.
Also, I find it amusing that an i8 isn't much more eco-friendly than an R8. About time the EU (and OLEV) reviewed the way that enmissions are measured to stop thirsty cars like this from benefitting from green policies just because they have a little battery and a Type 2 port!�
Feb 17, 2015
skilly You make it sound like spreading the word of God. Its an electric car....If you watch the show, they like EVs only marginally better than Caravans. And I'm pretty sure their feedback on those doesn't prevent someone from buying one.
Its a VERY small part of the world that can even afford one of these, You are looking at a market that already doubles its mileage efficiency simply because diesel is the dominating source of fuel (and much more efficient that gasoline). Im sure there are many other factors ... maybe ask yourself how many people can afford $150 thousand quid on a Roadster. Moreover, just reverse the logic - ask yourself how many people avoided spending that because Top Gear said so? Consider yourself - how much did it weigh on your decision to buy a Tesla (assuming that you have one)? Have you ever heard of the saying "there is no such thing as bad press"?�
Feb 17, 2015
SwedishAdvocate Have you ever thought about that that phrase is merely just that: A saying (!)
It's just a really lousy attempt at spin from someone who's most likely � and fully justified at that � getting completely butchered in a very credible media piece.�
Feb 17, 2015
skilly Well if the ask to borrow my P85D, I will gladly hand the fob over to them. Sounds like I might trigger a slow down in the market - maybe some of my friends will be able to pick one up on the cheap because Top Gear has provided their scripted and predictable, yet "credible" review.�
Feb 17, 2015
stopcrazypp It's not a religion, but the mental barrier is the biggest barrier to EV adoption today. The term "range anxiety" and "station anxiety" comes to mind. And the comparison to Caravan's doesn't really show the point. People know how caravans work so they have a basis to judge the seriousness of any facts presented. Very few people have such familiarity with EVs and will take whatever presented on the show at face value.
Pointing out any factual errors in such pieces helps inform people. If even the EV advocates don't do that, people will just accept what is shown as true. Perhaps the higher end EVs are less affected, but the UK sales of EVs in general are absolutely horrible for such a large market. Top Gear's continual theme of EVs running out of charge or having a hard time finding public charging systems discourages a lot of people from even considering an EV.�
Feb 17, 2015
SwedishAdvocate That depends on what that fictitious segment will look like.
Tesla is doing absolutely fine without Top Gear. So if Top Gear ignores the Model S I really can�t see a downside to that.�
Feb 17, 2015
skilly I really cant disagree with their parodies entirely...if you see them as script or more factual (like yourself). You may not like it, but the reality is that the EV market isn't ready for prime time yet. And a lot of things will have to change - not just Top Gear's opinion.
On the one hand you have cars like the leaf that are (somewhat) affordable but are limited to travel within 50 to 60 miles reliably before needing a charge - and that will last for most of the day (or evening) just to make it back where you came from. Alternatively, you have the Tesla that has a great charge basis and a network of charging stations that make it more mainstream; however, the price point escapes 99% of the population. Jeremy making reference to the delta in the Mercedes comparisons where the petrol version vs the electric leaves enough cash left over to buy fuel for the distance of traveling to the moon is real. So, as much as it is entertaining, its also making points based on facts. EVs still have a way to go....we shouldn't pretend that they don't.
There is the whole debate about saving the planet from fossil fuels...but even that is pretty weak. Most electricity doesn't come from clean sources.�
Feb 17, 2015
stopcrazypp I'm talking about stuff like running the battery empty and then creating a scenario of having a horrible time trying to find somewhere to charge. They also tend to present the worse case scenario when mentioning charging time. It takes pointing out that such segments are scripted and to point out there are faster charging methods, but it is not immediately obvious. And people who see those kind of segments are just going to not even consider an EV, even if they can make it work out with some planning.
Anyways, like SwedishAdvocate says, it really depends on how they do the specific segment, but as long as Elon is still leading the company, Tesla is unlikely to let the car on the show (unless Top Gear gets one independent of Tesla).�
Feb 17, 2015
bxr140 Indeed. Tesla did turn that one into quite a bit of nonsense...�
Feb 17, 2015
SwedishAdvocate At the time Elon had a different opinion. And why do I think he was more knowledgeable back then, than you are know?�
Feb 17, 2015
Trnsl8r Say what you want, I don't care if they make another scripted blunder failure of the thing, just as long as I get to see what The Stig does with a P85D...�
Feb 17, 2015
bollar The Model S appearance will come with one of Top Gear's famous "races." In this event, I see the guys starting at Lizard, Cornwall and racing to Skarfskerry, Caithness, Highland, Scotland. The vehicles will be as follows:
Clarkson -- a 2000 hp luxury Superboat (like the XSR48)
May -- Tesla Model S P85D
Hammond -- A motorcycle -- any motorcycle really, but especially one with a painful saddle, to maximize the bollocks jokes.
The Stig -- Public transportation, including Air
The journey begins with Clarkson powering off in the boat filled with bikini models; Hammond feeling very smug in the motorcycle; The Stig waiting for a bus to Plymouth; and May driving off on the A30. As usual, all in a private vehicle waffle on about the utter awesomeness of their vehicle, all feeling confident of the win.
The unforeseen challenge: Clarkson runs out of fuel, which allows him to pontificate about what he would do with the last barrel of oil on Earth. Unfortunately, this is interrupted as the bikini models start getting seasick aboard the awash boat. Hammond is suffering such severe pain, he stops in Bath to give his bollocks a rest. This ensues much ribbing over the mobile phones (six minutes worth on BBC and four minutes on BBC America) about Hammond's plight and good feelings all around at how lucky he is that he's already had his children. The Stig is unable to pass through security at the Plymouth airport because he won't remove his helmet. May, inexplicably, has insufficient charge to make the Exeter Supercharger at highway speeds, so we cut to him doing 20 miles an hour on the A-30, trying to keep the Energy Prediction graph above zero.
Break to stars driving the new reasonably priced car -- all of them own a Model S, but none mention it, aside from an offhand comment from Lisa Rinna that she usually wears Depends in her daily driver.
Back to the race: Towards the end, all inexplicably overcome the challenges! Clarkson meets a Saudi prince in the English Channel happy to trade 10,000 gallons of Diesel for his promise to flog even larger SUVs in America; Hammond, stands over his bike for the remaining 660 miles; The Stig moves to an alternate that technically meets the rules -- a chauffeur-driven Plymouth Barracuda; and May gets to demo a SuperCharger while feeding his face at the Little Chef.
Clarkson wins, of course and Hammond comes in second. May third because Edinburgh to Skarfskerry is 275 miles, slowing him again and proving how impractical EVs are. Not sure what happened to The Stig.�
Feb 17, 2015
bxr140 Lol! I can't help if Elon had never seen Top Gear before.
Then, as now, had Tesla issued a statement along the lines of: "Well, it didn't go exactly like that, but it was still good entertainment--We'd be happy to give them a Roadster again whenever they'd like."...the whole situation would have blown over at worst, and more likely would have won over a few naysayers. The suit made them look petty an insignificant and was, quite frankly, embarrassing.
Hubris is a nasty enemy.�
Feb 17, 2015
YoungStranger Lol Bollar. Good scenario . Just add that Clarkeson manages to crash the boat into a wind farm
As a Tesla fan and Top gear viewer been waiting to see a review of the Model S. But it ain't going to happen and this deliberate snub on the part of Top Gear makes it a bigger story. Tesla may have been a small upstart when they reviewed the Roadster. But times have changed.
Elon could just snap his little finger and promise half hour of his time and a view of the SpaceX facilities and Clarkson (not one of the other two) would be commanded to come scampering over to California at short notice.�
Feb 17, 2015
skilly it wouldn't have anything to do with the idea that a car like the Nissan leaf is $40,000.00 with an equivalent ICE powered vehicle being a fraction of that? Or perhaps the poor electrical infrastructure that doesn't really support any significant move to EV transportation? There are a lot of assumptions being made about the general public and their ability to be lead blindly to conclusions; not understanding fact from fiction, or entertainment value vs. factual commentary.
I understand your concern. There are examples of what you are describing - we don't have to look much farther than the concept of 24hr "news" where its deeply lathered in editorial comment/opinions and being called news (Wolf Blitzer is a great example of that). But that is REALLY calling itself news, yet its not. Top Gear is not disguising itself as a Motorweek with flair...I drew the parallel before to John Stewart's "The Daily Show"....entertaining and the content is about the news, but its not nor does it claim to be "news".�
Feb 17, 2015
brianman "I can't find the gear shift."
"I don't hear the engine so I guess it doesn't work."�
Feb 17, 2015
gpetti Hilarious, clearly you could be a script writer for TG.
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I've lived in the UK about half of my life and I go there about three time a year. I have watched top gear for years as has my oldest son who is a strong fan. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that top gear "reviews" influence people's opinions. I also don't think this is just down to stupidity (though assuming that everyone understands top gear humor is naive). Clearly some of top gear segments are intentionally ludicrous and no one in their right mind would do anything other than shake their heads and chuckle. Those segments are just fun and forgettable. On the other hand you have the segments where Jeremy clarkson puts on his serious man to man voice as he shares his opinions on the nuances of some super car or another. I've heard people repeat those opinions and they do have weight. If the roadster had been shown electrocuting Jeremy Clarkson complete with smoke coming out of his hair that would be one thing, but he gave a seemingly serious summary (yes he always has some funny analogies during these commentaries) followed by a seemingly real dead car. Typically TG gives you an inkling of which genre they are working in but apparently they can mix the semi serious with the fictional any time they want which means they can say or do anything they want and not be accountable. I imagine if they showed a Lamborghini bursting into flames on the track and said they were dangerous or a Porsche with the wheels falling off, those companies might push back. In the case of Tesla, they were fighting a very difficult battle to change the perception of EVs to the masses. The TG episode no doubt set them back. Not arguing the point would have potentially legitimized the episode. Of course Tesla are not the only car company to tackle TG. See Zenvo as an example. Arguably Tesla had a better case than Zenvo as they (Zenvo) seem to acknowledge that the car actually did catch fire - I.e. It wasn't scripted.�
Feb 17, 2015
skilly BANG ON! Although, the Stig would figure it out...Clarkson would be left stranded.
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Clarkson regularly dishes Porsche...hes reluctant to say anything nice about them at all. He trashes Lambo's too (especially the German engineered versions like the Baby Bull. He shows bias all over the place - its not exclusive to EVs. The other cars aren't catching on fire, but hes pretty clear in his comments sometimes that he wishes that they would.�
Feb 17, 2015
SwedishAdvocate Define news.
In the mean time:
That seems like a pretty good definition to me. And by that definitions �The daily show� is as much news as anything else. Of course � John Stewart would never say that it is, but that�s just part of his shtick.
Everyone is biased.
Everyone has an agenda.
Nobody is 100% objective.
There is always an angle.
There is always a selection, and as as a consequence there is also always an exclusion.
Unfortunately doing the right thing just isn�t as entertaining as just blowing s#!t up. Or as entertaining as crashing a POS Robin Reliant death trap into another POS Reliant death trap (and throwing in a pornographer � as in Peter Stringfellow � giving a �helping hand�. Not that I can see ANY humor in that, but maybe there�s some little clever English context that I�m unaware of�)
So what�s TOP GEAR�s agenda?
Tesla is ALL about doing the right thing. Sadly that currently just doesn�t seem to 'gel that well' with Clarkson and his BBC minions.
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Also:
TEAM gpetti (as in post #107 above).
And yes, bollar�s post was truly hilarious :biggrin:�
Feb 17, 2015
skilly Let me help simplify this:
news = fact that can be verified by more than one source. Like an investigation. Just the facts please.
editorial comment = opinion. Which can then be as biased as one likes back before these two clearly blurred responsible news would preface editorial comment with "its this reporters opinion" or something to let you know the editorial was personal and not news (not to be mistaken for newsworthiness). Nothing wrong with this form of gathering your own opinions as long as you understand the bias in which its being delivered - for example, I understand the Top Gear bias, and still love the show for all it has to offer.
"Doing the right thing" is subjective in itself. Does one assume and deliver the right thing for me (censorship); the right thing for them (all sorts of names for that) or selflessly the right thing for me at their expense? The exclusion or inclusion of editorial comment can be for entertainment (like Top Gear) or cloaked as news (propaganda) but don't call it something that its not to prove a point. The "right thing" is always subjective. News is merely a collection of facts to be shared - you form your own opinion.
I think Tesla is an example of a great concept that has a great vision for an alternative to the way things are done today...of course not without its resistance or faults. Like most things that offer change, it will be poked at - and I think it should be...it helps it grow and people will become more aware of the brand. I have to give the general population more credit than you do. That said, with your last comment, I find it hard to point to a publically traded company as an example of "doing the right thing". Right now that might be true; thats certainly how its starting but its ALWAY about shareholder value in the end. And the right thing will always be to drive that EPS onward and upward.�
Feb 17, 2015
bwa I love Top Gear. It is an entertainment show. They don't have to tell the truth. But, they pretend like they do tell the truth sometimes, and I feel like if I wanted to learn opinions about cars, that I could glean some from there. Tesla shouldn't care a lot about what Top Gear does because of all of this. However, if Top Gear wants to go ahead and do a half honest review (I think they do another Tesla review this year), so be it. Or they can drop pianos on Teslas. But if Top Gear completely represents a horrible lie about a Tesla that is presented in such a way that it ought to materially hurt Tesla, and it actually does hurt Tesla a lot, then Tesla ought to take action. I think that's what was claimed in the last go around, although to my mind it seemed like a weak claim, but I didn't fully study it.
But as has been stated, Tesla is in a manufacturing bottleneck, not a sales bottleneck.�
Feb 18, 2015
stopcrazypp The US and other EV markets had to overcome those points too. The UK EV market is horrible even factoring that in. And I think the difference is perception.
Top Gear does sell itself as both though. Sometimes it's a humor show with cars injected, sometimes it's a car review show with humor injected (keep in mind that car reviews, unlike news, are heavily opinion based in the first place). Like gpetti says, some segments the presenters put on their "serious" voice and for the EVs "reviewed" so far that had tended to be the case.�
Feb 18, 2015
1208 Tesla should just give a p85d to Clarkson, Hammond and May for free to own. Pretty sure May owns an i3 at moment so he won't say no, especially as it would be free.�
Feb 18, 2015
ggr Elon says with great pride that no-one has ever been given a free Tesla. If he were to give away cars, there are many better people to give them to.�
Feb 18, 2015
Mjsais The only way to get a fair review (it would still have some anti EV bias/humor) would be for:
1. Tesla needs to built a supercharger within 5 min drive to the TG Surrey Airport
2. Elon should take the car personally to the TG facility and volunteer to be interviewed and to drive the reasonably priced car
3. Tesla (Elon) should be present during the testing procedures
4. Elon should invite and host Jeremy's BBC Boss at the Track during the filming of the episode�
Feb 18, 2015
ecarfan TG does not do "reviews" they create fiction for entertainment. Unfortunately many people consider TG a source for information about cars. It is not. But TG fails to understand that.�
Feb 18, 2015
Mjsais Ok, Top Gear does not do reviews. I still think that Tesla could get better treatment from Top Gear by doing the points in my original post.�
Feb 18, 2015
the dude TG know very well what they are doing
just look at the review james may did of the Honda FX clarity, TG are biased against BEVs and pro fuel cells, because thats what they get paid to do
I like TG but still think Stewart Lee makes some very good points :biggrin:
�
Feb 18, 2015
Cyclone Top Gear to car reviews is akin to Tool Time to a home improvement show (granted, Tool Time was a fictional show inside the sitcom Home Improvement, but still they are quite similar). Anyone who made a purchasing decision based on either show is fool soon parted from his/her money or this guy. Now, the entertainment value may influence your emotional desires, but it should not change your rational decisions.�
Feb 18, 2015
Mario Kadastik I think Clarkson would love the P85D and with superchargers coming online I'm not sure the review would be that bad. The SLS review was good up to the point of price and range and both are for the P85D as it competes well in the high perf category and superchargers and 250+ mile range easily work too.�
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