Chủ Nhật, 29 tháng 1, 2017

New: 3rd row seats now 'standard' (9/16) part 1

  • Sep 16, 2015
    NigelM
    Another day and more news. It appears from the design studio that 3rd row seats are now standard:
    Screen Shot 2015-09-16 at 8.40.12 AM.png
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    andrewket
    And the seats are leather again? I thought they were synthetic? (Sig feature)
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    NigelM
    Only the white ones are synthetic; tan seats and black seats are leather.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    yobigd20
    well that's great news (I guess). I thought 3rd row seats were always supposed to be standard in the first place. i'd be PO'd if they weren't and they'd make me pony up even more money for it.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    MrBoylan
    Thanks, Nigel,

    While this is good news for me (I thought I'd be paying at least $2500 for the rear seat option), it does minimize the likelihood that the Signature seats are any different from the production seats.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    BerTX
    I'll be PO'd if I have to pay for them and store them when I don't want them. Even more so if they are not removable.

    We all have to make some compromises.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    Jeva
    Hmmmm...Sounds weird but I'd rather them not be standard. I really have no use for them and am perfectly fine not paying for them. I wonder if this impacts the "MX is $5000 more than the MS".
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    mkjayakumar
    "Free LONG distance travel with SuperChargers"

    Finally! I wish they had that language from day one. Saved us all here in this forum a ton of grief
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    omarsultan
    The description of the 2nd row seats ("Independently operable 3 adult second row seats") is also missing from the Sig features section, seems to be replaces with the generic 3+2 statement under standard features.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    AnOutsider
    Yes, perhaps sigs will now get a choice of folding and possibly uncomfortable vs non-folding but comfortable.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    Ralph K
    I have noticed the new renderings of the storage space show gray seats? Do we have an option of gray leather seats again in the design studio?
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    NigelM
    They have been using it since day one, and ever since.

    But let's not rehash that subject here please.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Nope. At least not yet.
    Screen Shot 2015-09-16 at 10.49.11 AM.png
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    vandacca
    The changing Signature Design Studio just confirms my original belief that the main reason why the Design Studio was delayed and now not open to everyone is because they still haven't nailed down the specification. They're still figuring all this stuff out.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    Duckjybe
    TWO golf bags in the front trunk! Its bigger than I had imagined.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    NigelM
    And from a positive perspective, at least that is a way of communicating back here.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    AnOutsider
    Also a bit of vindication to those on TMC discussing their concerns (even when brow-beat not to)
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    Merrill
    I hope that on the production cars the 3 row is not standard, do need them and do not want to pay extra for them.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    scottf200
    I'm guess the price of the Sig did not drop by $2,500-$3,000 since it was included before?!?
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    Skotty
    Also note that it says "Full size rear cargo storage for bikes a gear". Strange and somewhat ambiguous wording. Are they trying to suggest that space isn't compromised by the design of the 2nd row seats?

    Back on topic, I'm not sure how I feel on 3rd row being standard vs an option. Perhaps it should be considered a standard feature, but then provide a 3rd row delete option that drops the price. In the end, I'm not sure it really changes much, but maybe that would be a more universally acceptable way to present it.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    NigelM
    Np price change. I wasn't expecting there to be.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    CarlK
    Some people are so easily be PO'd by some minor things.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    bonnie
    And some are looking to create drama for no reason.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    vandacca
    I find it ironic that when Tesla announced that the 3rd row would be a paid-for-option, I was briefly disappointed to learn that I would have to pay more money for something that I wanted. Then I realized that in the grand scheme, it made more sense to offer it as an option because not everyone would want it and those people shouldn't have to pay for it. We've come full circle it seems but I think it should remain as an option (even though I plan to get it regardless) because it should be a minor change to Tesla and it would go a long way to keep the most people happy.

    I admit, this is a trivial matter, at least to me.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    AnOutsider
    I agree, but also possible they don't have a design for the X WITHOUT the third row? Who knows. I'm in the same boat as you (was going to get them regardless, and always assumed they were standard), but I can see how some may not want them.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    NigelM
    I disagree on both points there. Making this an option would require different layouts, new tooling, extra parts, line complication etc. etc. Also it has always seemed (on the forums at least) like 'most' people wanted the 3rd row seats.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    CarlK
    No. There is a reason why I say that. This is supposed to be a happy event. Why so many people got so upset for minor things that they don't even have control of?
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    Yggdrasill
    This poll is relevant: How much would you pay for the 3rd row seat?

    I'm not sure if it's smart to include the 3rd row seats or not. It depends largely on how much they cost vs how much it streamlines the manufacturing process.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    bonnie
    Then maybe instead of telling people why they're wrong, you could help set a positive mood.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    ohmman
    I love everyone in this thread. Also, there are electric cars in the world! We get to drive them. We also are entitled to opinions! Hooray for TMC.

    I hope this helps.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    bonnie
    Most excellent attempt :). Bravo!
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    CarlK
    OK I'll say it then. No event in life has ever been perfect. One will have a miserable life if that's what he is seeking. Let's not be so easily PO'd by all the minor first world problems and enjoy what the great thing we have.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    goneskiian
    And I'm in the "I hope there is a 3rd row delete option." camp. Would prefer the extra stowage.

    But I am very excited we have some pretty damn cool EV's to drive and I can't wait to join the ranks of Tesla owners! Hooray! :D ;-)
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    jbabb
    The new wording could just be a different way of saying that the third row is standard in the Signature cars. We really don't know what the production car options will be, since that design studio is not up yet.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    petfansNetwork
    I could not find any mentions of seat memory feature. Is it not available for Model X?
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    Jeva
    That is definitely a possibility.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    CarlK
    The way it looks equipments listed under standard are included in the base model and ones under sig special are options for non-sig model.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    NigelM
    Then why move it from the 'Signature' section to the 'Standard' section?
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    Paul Carter
    Wonderful. But I do wonder if they suddenly realized that everything in the cargo bay would just be flying around back there if the third row option wasn't taken and this simply solves that.

    Tracker has been updated. Note: Production Reservations holders should review their choice for the ventilated/heating/cooling seat upgrade. Signature reservation holders have this option selected automatically with the configuration change.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    mrdoubleb
    I would be seriously disappointed if they just realized that after years of testing. I would find it more plausible, that they are closely monitoring configurations and when they see that 95%+ of the people make the same choice they may make it standard just to simplify logistics (decrease the number of configuration options/variations on the assembly line). so the may have made this option "opt out" instead of "opt in".
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    vandacca
    The flaw with that logic is that Tesla will not get this kind of information until regular reservations holders are asked to configure (because this is not an option for Signature holders).
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    sigurdi
    Good to se that it is included on all cars, I guess someone calculate the cost of two production setups and the price of the seats, guess it was not much difference. :)
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    AnxietyRanger
    Alternative theory:

    It is associated with the non-folding seats. Perhaps without a third row there would be standard folding seats, but those are not ready yet for... reasons. Maybe they will have more granularity if a more final seat setup appears later, say, mid-2016.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    NigelM
    Not everything is a conspiracy. Although I suppose it might be and have nothing to do with the uproar last year when folks thought they they wouldn't be standard.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    AnxietyRanger
    If this was about an uproar last year, why "launch" with non-standard third-row and only change minds now?

    The third row appearing as standard could be associated with second row seats' mention moving from Signature only to standard. And if so, it could be associated with the wider mess.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    omarsultan
    No real desire for the 3rd row seat, but not unhappy to see it as a standard option as long as it does not eat into the storage too much.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    BerTX
    My 3rd row seat will be optional. If it comes with one, I'll take it out. If it leaves a hole, I'll fabricate a cover for it.

    I'm not being grumpy -- I always intended to do that when the seat was supposed to be standard, then I was happy I wouldn't have to remove the seat when it was made optional. Now we have gone full circle.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    NigelM
    Perhaps because the "launch" hasn't happened yet and some of this stuff is still being sorted?

    I think I should probably stop posting further updates.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    gizmoboy
    Yes, please do. You're being far too informative. We like our innuendo with a soup�on of gossip. No ugly facts.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    Krugerrand
    That's no way to talk. You'll ruin your villain persona. :tongue:
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    bonnie
    Facts just mess things up. Please stop.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    BerTX
    I have changed my plan. If the 3rd row seats are standard, I'll remove the SECOND row seats, and the 3rd row becomes my 2nd row!
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    Krugerrand
    But I think the second row makes milkshakes.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    BerTX
    But I'll have room for the hot tub!
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    Krugerrand
    You win. Rip those puppies out.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    KJD
    I like it.
    Next step buy a sheet of 3/4 plywood and cut it to fit inside the back for a flat floor. I bet that queen sized mattress would fit in there now. Major problem solved. :smile:

    Then when I get tired of that look, I could weld the falcon wing doors closed and call it a Tesla sedan delivery.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    Spidy
    Made a post here: Seperation between trunk and passengers without 3rd row seats?

    That was pretty much what I was wondering. With that seat design and the falcon doors my mum would have groceries rolling all over the car every time she goes shopping.
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  • Sep 16, 2015
    Lyon
  • Sep 16, 2015
    Oyvind.H
    Great for those of us who where getting them anyway. Bad for those who did not want them.
    I personally don't like paying for stuff I do not want :) Strange that Elon turned in the "3rd row optional" statement.
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  • Sep 17, 2015
    smac
    That's the configuration my kids like the most in our old minivan... great for legroom!

    Saying that I think there will be some serious ironmongery involved hidden below the floor, and I very much doubt you can just unbolt row 2.

    Seats.png

    Given the seatbelt is mounted at the top of the seat in the event of an accident many 000's of lbs will trying to pull the top of the seat forward. The seat and pedestal will act as a big lever at the base of the pedestal. This will make the torque forces pretty immense at the base trying to rip the seat out.

    This could be offset somewhat by putting a large beam under the floor to turn the pedestal base from the primary load into the fulcrum. In such an approach, I'd expect the joint between pedestal and underfloor structure to be welded.

    Of course this is wild speculation, but I can see there will have been lots of very tough engineering issues around these seats.
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  • Sep 17, 2015
    Spidy
    I doubt you can fit everything there specially when you have beverages and usually 1-2 of those laundry baskets for the groceries.

    Also it would require to park in with the back first which is not really what you would want to do on a supermarkt parking lot. And then it would suck to onload when you are in the garage at home.
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  • Sep 17, 2015
    AnxietyRanger
    Possible, of course. However it is kind of big thing to say third row goes from optional to standard now, because of an uproar last year. If that theory was a motivator, I would have expected it to have happened earlier. Hence I'm looking at alternatives. Of course it may be merely marketing working on outdated materials or making a mistake.

    This will be easy enough to estimate in time:

    If a folding second-row for Model X appears and makes the 3rd row optional with it, then you get the point I was driving at. Until then we'd get the non-folding second row with standard third row.

    If this doesn't happen (or we don't hear from behind the scenes that something like this happened), then my speculation of course is likely wrong.

    Same with a compromised-at-launch Model X. If a folding second-row appears within a reasonable time, say within a year or such ballpark, I would say the it probably was just delayed and launch thus compromised with the non-folding option only.

    If this doesn't happen, then my speculation of course has likely been wrong.

    These things may be connected or they may not, but we will see over time as the Model X offering evolves and we hear more of the story behind the scenes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    We hardly have all the facts. Hence there is a certain valid need to fill up the rest. It is not in Tesla's interest to spill all the beans, but it is in the interest of some of us to know and understand them.

    I have a vested interest too, in the form of a Signature reservation, you know. I think it is good to try and understand what we are getting and why - to gain perspectives on what may be appearing later.

    That said, in addition to thinking things through as above, I am patiently waiting for September 29th as well and recommend everyone with a decision to make does the same. Premature conclusions rarely help when it is a matter of days now to learn probably a lot more.
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  • Sep 17, 2015
    NigelM
    It didn't. I think you missed the point. You're assuming it was optional just because it was listed under the signature items and Tesla clarified that by relocating the text.

    If everything is going to picked to death in excruciating speculation it becomes no fun to post anymore, at least for me; I'll leave others to post further updates.
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  • Sep 17, 2015
    yobigd20
    they "launch" probably won't happen until 6 months after they start delivery. maybe longer. hell they keep changing what's standard vs optional in the MS and it's been 3 years of this comedy now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    but I thought that was the entire purpose of car enthusiast forums :p
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  • Sep 17, 2015
    MrBoylan
    I don't think it's a coincidence that this changed in the Design Studio after all the forum uproar. Part of me thinks that maybe EM said, "OK, just throw it in - they can't complain if it's free!"
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  • Sep 17, 2015
    bonnie
    He must be new.
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  • Sep 17, 2015
    Oyvind.H
    And the "Falcon doors for easy access to 3rd row seats" argument is more solid if 3rd row seats are standard.
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  • Sep 17, 2015
    MrBoylan
    ouch.
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  • Sep 17, 2015
    Krugerrand
    Don't take it too hard, somebody has to be new. And trust me, it could be worse. You could be the guy three posts above. :biggrin: (Yes, inquiring minds what to know, three posts above from what starting post.)
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  • Sep 17, 2015
    MrBoylan
    Oh, wait, did you mean Elon? Pretty sure he's been with the company for a little while now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Well if the alternative to "new" is "old" then I'm OK with that. :) And yeah, AR does get a lot of razzing, though I have to say it's at least partially self-inflicted.
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  • Sep 17, 2015
    bonnie
    Yes, I definitely meant Elon (otherwise I would have said 'you must be new'). And it was a joke.
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  • Sep 17, 2015
    mspisars
    Not to this excruciating level... agree with Nigel, takes away from the fun.
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  • Sep 17, 2015
    MrBoylan
    Don't you hate having to explain your jokes? I blame the newbie (me). :)
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  • Sep 17, 2015
    Saxena
    I have definitely been appreciating your updates Nigel, but completely understand your statement!
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  • Sep 17, 2015
    Gwgan
    - - - Updated - - -

    Nigel, please keep posting what you know; it is why I read these threads.
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  • Sep 17, 2015
    bonnie
    In my list of things to be hating on today, this one doesn't even make a guest appearance. :) We're good.
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  • Sep 17, 2015
    scottf200
    Please continue. It has been incredibly appreciated by many (even lurkers no doubt).
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  • Sep 17, 2015
    Cosmacelf
    Yes indeed, Nigel has posting the best posts about the Model X that I've seen in a long while, so please don't stop, or else we'll just have useless drivel like this post to read.
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  • Sep 17, 2015
    BerTX
    I agree it is unlikely to be easy. I'd probably be satisfied with removing the seat from the pedestal. Maybe that will be possible. Perhaps make a table to attach to the remaining pedestals.

    What I want the option for is to cover the whole middle area for sleeping.

    Not sure how to incorporate the pedestal into the hot tub configuration... Maybe some kind of fountain?
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  • Sep 18, 2015
    EchoDelta
    I have a hunch the forum will always find a way to have a ton of grief, but I agree for interest's sake may our griefs be original.
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  • Sep 18, 2015
    EchoDelta
    Yeah, better do. That way we can all go back to discussing the options for exterior wood paneling. Which is why we all really are here.
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  • Sep 18, 2015
    smac
    Of course it will be possible, you'll just need an angle grinder :eek:

    I do like the fountain idea... with such works of art as the pedestals, you would have the equivalent of a mobile Trevi Fountain :p :D
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  • Sep 19, 2015
    AnxietyRanger
    I assumed no such thing. I considered the possibility that Tesla showing third row as Signature and later moving that to standard might be reflective of actual product changes perhaps related to the non-folding seats situation. It is as plausible a theory as any, but I freely admit it is a theory.

    You ignored in your response text completely me saying also this: "Of course it may be merely marketing working on outdated materials or making a mistake."

    As for posting, as many have so often remarked to me, we get to decide what we post but not how our posts are responded to. Ironically, I sympathize with you on that point.
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  • Sep 19, 2015
    flar
    One thing that puzzles me is what the plan was if the third row was not selected (though I imagine there are other cars with optional 3rd rows that have this same issue).

    Unlike the Model S, the seats don't stow below the existing framework (drive tunnel), they stow on top of the drive tunnel and that height is taken into account in creating the flat cargo floor. I'm guessing that some optional 3rd rows in other cars may have a similar fold and tumble and "stow below the flat cargo floor" system, but I'm not familiar with them.

    With the folding 3rd row the hatch opening lines up with the rear tray which lines up with the backs of the folded seats and everything is flat with no lift-over for loading items.

    If that row is simply deleted then we have a stair-stepped storage area with the tray even with the hatch opening, dropping to the top of the rear drive tunnel where the 3rd row would have been mounted, then dropping again to the floor of the vehicle. There is also the likelihood that the missing seats would leave a gap at the far end of the tray with nothing to close it off or attach it to.

    Or, would the tray have been lowered to be even with the top of the drive tunnel creating a lift-over to get things in the trunk?
    Or, would the tray have been deleted leaving a really deep floor with a hump over the drive tunnel (and a bigger lift-over)?
    Or, the tray could be extended to where the 3rd row would have ended and squared off creating a flat cargo floor and a not-quite-flat (due to drive tunnel) under-floor storage area.
    Or, ...?
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  • Sep 19, 2015
    AnxietyRanger
    flar: As a purely uneducated personal hypothesis I would have expected something like your last option. They might also simply have replaced the third row with faux floor for a flat surface.

    However, I'm more puzzled by how Tesla would have solved the separation of trunk and passenger area in the case of a no third row. The second row standing on individually moving pedestals lacks a regular kind of barrier between trunk and passengers. I wonder if it would be sufficient as is.

    Would they just have relied on the moving backs of the second row or perhaps even offered some different kind of (even more limited?) second row for cars without third row? Or would they have provided a perhaps removable separator for the trunk and passenger area?
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