Jun 7, 2013
andrewket I spoke to ownership today to inquire about the plan to get HPWCs back up to 80A. I learned new hardware is now available. It's a complete swap, and is being coordinated via the service centers.
While I'm happy for a fix, I wish Tesla would have communicated earlier that it would be a complete swap. My HPWC was just installed last week. I wonder how much it's going to cost to swap out.
Andrew�
Jun 7, 2013
lefantaz I completely agree. Ours was recently installed, yet to be used since our car doesn't arrive until tomorrow. I could have lived with a non-HPWC work around had I known that there would it would be a hardware replacement. Why did they continue shipping them out as recently as a couple of weeks ago if they knew (or suspected) a hardware update would be required?�
Jun 7, 2013
scaesare Heh.... I installed mine temporarily in a location with quick and easy access to a 240V/50A circuit about a week and a half ago. I'll probably take this as the opportunity to go ahead and get the second panel for ToU metering put in and run myself a 100A circuit to the ideal location I have in mind...�
Jun 7, 2013
TurboFroggy Very interested to see what the updated HPWC looks like. I am suspecting ventilation to reduce the internal temps. I am also wondering if they are just swapping out the unit itself and just transferring the cord to the new unit or doing the entire thing cord and all. First person who gets one please take lots of external and internal pictures pretty please!!�
Jun 7, 2013
FlasherZ I only pray that it has the same locations for the cut-outs and the wiring terminals. That would make an easy swap-out. If it's "re-designed" so that I have to pull new wire I'll be a bit disappointed at the work. It wasn't easy to maneuver that wire in there in the first place.
�
Jun 7, 2013
NigelM Hmmm, Tesla strongly recommended getting an electrician to do the HPWC install; don't see how they can expect people to pay the electrician a second time around.
Like many others I feel like I know enough to swap out the unit myself but not everyone will if that's really what's required.�
Jun 7, 2013
efusco Obviously I'll pay if I have to, but that would leave me quite upset. I suspect Tesla will cover some fixed amount just to avoid the negative press and potential for a class action suit.
Evan, Via Tapatalk�
Jun 7, 2013
FlasherZ They did say that it would be at Tesla's expense when that note was posted on the web site.�
Jun 8, 2013
JakeP That is interesting. I haven't installed HPWC yet, but the electrician is scheduled to do so on June 20. I wonder if I should have him hold off?�
Jun 8, 2013
NigelM Mod Note: updated title as I just realized that none of us have an updated HPWC yet, so assume it is coming "soon"....Unless anyone has a timeframe?�
Jun 8, 2013
efusco I would just hold off if you have another option (ie NEMA 6-50)
Evan, Via Tapatalk�
Jun 9, 2013
JakeP Yeah I might just do that, my 14-50 is working fine for my needs. I'll call the Columbus service center on Monday to ask their opinion.�
Jun 9, 2013
FlasherZ The St. Louis service center hasn't heard of this yet, so it's probably going to be a bit yet.�
Jun 9, 2013
PhilBa Hmmm, I have an HPWC coming in the next week or so. Wonder what I'm going to get? Will check on this report back here.�
Jun 10, 2013
PhilBa This morning I received this note from an Inside Sales Advisor:
Sounds pretty good to me.�
Jun 10, 2013
andrewket I was told Tesla was handling this via the SC's. Since you spoke with an inside sales rep does that mean you're still waiting for your original HPWC?�
Jun 10, 2013
PhilBa Yes. I asked them if they were going to send the current (now old) model or the new one. I should be getting car in about 2 weeks so the hpwc should be showing up fairly soon. I didn't want to get the old, broken one only to have to swap it out in a few weeks.
Based on his response, I'd check with the SC again.
Phil�
Jun 10, 2013
TurboFroggy Just spoke with the local SC here and Tesla Ownership. The update is just a new set of fuses for the existing HPWC itself that are less sensitive, my guess slow-blow or less temp sensitive. They are having Rangers come out and swap out the fuses in some instances, it is a 5-10 minute job. So no worries about replacing the entire HPWC, it is just an updated set of fuses. I would contact your local service center and have them put a set of the updated fuses on order. Then the next part is if you can actually swap them yourself.
If you don't feel comfortable for example changing an outlet, I would not attempt it, ask your SC if they can just send out a Ranger to swap the fuses.
If you can handle an outlet change, tell the service center you are just going to have your electrician do it and your will pickup the fuses, then do it yourself, it is pretty straight forward.
1. Turn off power
2. Ensure power is off, no green light on the hpwc.
3. Use Torx bit and open case to HPWC, carefully remove cover and ribbon cable.
4. Use appropriate socket and remove fuses (I think they are 3/8 of maybe 7/16 socket).
5. Keep the old fuses so you can reinstall if thing go badly.
6. Put in new fuses in, tighten to proper torque spec.
7. Reconnect ribbon cable, replace cover.
8. Turn on breaker test operation at 80 amps and see what happens.
Something else that is interesting, the HPWC installation guide online has illustrations/pictures of the inside of the HPWC and it doesn't show any fuses between the wiring blocks and the contactor, it just looks like bars.
All of the other EVSE's I have ever had didn't have any fuses in them, they just had regular wires from the wiring block to the contactor.�
Jun 10, 2013
FlasherZ It's likely because of the very, very high amperage for which the device is rated, and providing secondary protection for a fault.�
Jun 10, 2013
brianman @TurboFroggy - Thanks for sharing. Can you recall a first name (or PM me an email address if you have it) of who you spoke to, so that I can continue the conversation w/r/t to getting new fuses for mine?�
Jun 10, 2013
andrewket We're getting conflicting information. I asked ownership specifically if it was a fuse change and was told no; new hardware. This also jives with the behavior of 4.4 and 4.5 when you try to go over 60A: "does your HPWC look like this?" dialog screen. To me, that implies a fixed HPWC looks different.�
Jun 10, 2013
FlasherZ This was discussed up-thread a bit, but the graphic of the HPWC was to differentiate between high-powered J1772 EVSE's, Roadster HPC's, etc.
That said, I reached out to my service center manager who said:
�
Jun 10, 2013
JakeP Columbus SC had also not heard of a proactive hardware swap (fuses or entire HPWC unit), but they said they would check their bulletins online and get back to me.�
Jun 10, 2013
smorgasbord Hey Tesla, I'll buy a used 60 amp HPWC from you if they're cheap enough.�
Jun 10, 2013
kruecab I just spoke to Tesla Service San Diego and they said that since my HPWC came with a note warning about lowering the charge to 60A, AND since I now have 4.5, that I'm good to go for 80A charging. They were going to schedule an appointment to reset my DIPs, but I already have those set for a 100A breaker and was doing the recommended limiting in the charge preferences. They said that with 4.5, the draw is ramped up slightly more slowly which alleviates the problem.
It sounds like we're getting conflicting information at this point, but maybe there are already multiple generations of HPWC in the field, so the remediation is different for each? Mine arrived in mid-April and had a printed sheet with the charge limit warning. Perhaps HPWC's shipped before this was included also need new fuses?
I have not updated my charge limit just yet until we hear some more different stories from Service or experience from other owners.�
Jun 11, 2013
iconoclast My HPWC just arrived today and has no printed warning note about the lower charge rate. On the other hand, I did get an extra printout of the cable hanger instructions, perhaps one was supposed to be the charge rate warning note? I haven't spotted anything that looks like a revision number or any sort of indicator that I might have received one of the hypothetical "fixed" units rumored to possibly exist. If there is real hardware expected to be changed out (beyond fuses) and if I don't already have it, I'm tempted to delay installation until it's all sorted out.�
Jun 11, 2013
araxara I can't see how ramping up more slowly will alleviate the problem. The fuses blow because they get too hot and that is due to the time they spend charging. May last two fuses blew after charging for a long time (more than 1.5hrs).�
Jun 11, 2013
andrewket Did yours come with the cable hanger? I think that's a new development. I received mine in late April/May and it had the note saying the cable hanger would ship in February :/�
Jun 11, 2013
iconoclast Yep, cable hanger included in the box. Perhaps I got lucky on the timing and ended up with the mythical 80A variant after all. Now I just have to wait for delivery of the car that goes with it.�
Jun 11, 2013
Denarius New one is indeed shipping. Internal photos here.�
Jun 11, 2013
PhilBa Mine arrived today and also has the hanger. Nothing prepared me for how frigging big it is.
�
Jun 11, 2013
Lloyd It's 1/5 the size of the Clipper Creek TS-70 for the Roadster just several years ago!�
Jun 11, 2013
mitch672 It's difficult to make a device that can handle high power and is small, the 2 requirements are generally mutually exclusive. Just the size of the wiring that must be allowed (#2 or #3 THHN), and a contactor rated for 80A continuous duty, those are not small components, now add on the fuses, control PCB, etc. I think they've done a remarkable job shrinking it down in size. Look at the gigantic 75A J-1772 I built as a comparision: http://code.google.com/p/open-evse/wiki/75AOpenEVSE�
Jun 11, 2013
FlasherZ They were able to use 105 degC #6 internally, rated for 85 amp, which surprised me a bit, but I guess they have some test results for continuous load testing of that wiring they used to get it listed.�
Jun 11, 2013
Lloyd For those with indoor installations, would it be purdent to drill several "ventilation holes" to allow some internal cooling?�
Jun 11, 2013
FlasherZ Depending upon how they retrofit, you may want to wait. They may be doing an exchange program, where they send you a newly-reworked one, then re-work the old one and send out. In that case, you probably don't want to drill.
If the change comes in the form of a rework kit, or once you get the second HPWC, I doubt it would hurt to drill a few (SMALL!) chimney holes in the top so that heat can escape, but from Tesla's testing my guess is that you shouldn't need them. Keep in mind that increases the risk someone sticks a metal tool or something in there and could get a tickle.
My opinion would be "don't worry about it" once they get you the fixed parts.�
Jun 11, 2013
mitch672 I would not recommend that, for one you have modified the enclosure, so now it can't be used in wet locations, it also might attract "critters" looking for a warm spot to nest. Nope, wouldn't recommend it. My 75A J-1772 EVSE runs relatively cool, but doesn't have fuses internally, just a gigantic contactor that generates some heat.�
Jun 11, 2013
TurboFroggy Just call the Bellevue service center and ask for Maddy, she is going to order a bunch of the updated fuses and have them on-hand there.�
Jun 11, 2013
PhilBa Personally, I would want to get a new unit or at least have them repair it. I'm pretty sure the warrantee doesn't cover owner repairs.�
Jun 11, 2013
TurboFroggy The updated fuses will more than likely come as a kit which will consist of the new fuses, updated buss bars for the fuses, a paper separator along with some installation instructions.
As you can see between these two pictures, the updated HPWC is identical inside except for the fuse setup.
Here is the old fuse design:
Here is the updated design:
- - - Updated - - -
I think Tesla will more than likely send a Ranger out to install the fuse retrofit kit if you want. It can't be more than a 10-15 minute job.�
Jun 11, 2013
iconoclast Yep, it looks like I have the new design. Thanks for the photos!�
Jun 12, 2013
vetboy45 Is there a way to tell which unit you've got without opening it up? I just had my hpwc installed last monday and would be disappointed if I was given the old design.�
Jun 12, 2013
Lloyd I believe from reading here, the part number would end in -C�
Jun 12, 2013
FlasherZ That's correct. Look at the label on the box or the label on the HPWC. "-C" is the revision you want, after the part number.�
Jun 12, 2013
PhilBa That's probably sufficient if you've recently received the HPWC box. However, if you don't have the box, I don't believe there is any way from the outside to tell if it has the larger fuses in it - the part number of the unit wasn't changed. You'd need to open it up.�
Jun 12, 2013
FlasherZ I'd start looking at the serial number. Wondering if the serial number is prefaced by T13 instead of T12, it's likely to be the new version? We need more samples to determine where the cut-off is, though. I was originally thinking it could be based upon the last digits of the serial number, but I saw one new one with 26xx, and another new one as 5000+.
(EDIT: Nope... another box vs. unit thing, I guess. Probably sequence # thing on the serial number might still work, but we don't know where the cut-off is. Best is to open it up.)�
Jun 12, 2013
Denarius Did everyone with the new design receive the wall hanger? (I did). That might be a good way to tell.�
Jun 12, 2013
PhilBa You know, that is probably right but we haven't heard from Tesla if new package = new HPWC. It makes sense but I wouldn't assume it to be true.�
Jun 12, 2013
brianman I'm confused by this assertion.
My impression from the data so far is that "-C" is present on both the packaging and on the label on the right side of the HPWC itself for the new device (with fuse assembly), while the older has "-B". It sounds like you have evidence to the contrary. Please elaborate.�
Jun 12, 2013
FlasherZ Pictorially elaborated.�
Jun 12, 2013
brianman Sorry, I mis/over-stated.
My guess:
- If you have the "C" labelling, it's the new HPWC.
- If you have the "B" labelling and a serial # higher than ___ (2500?), it's the new HPWC. It was just packaged and sent before they had the new stickers and printed boxes.
�
Jun 12, 2013
PhilBa The issue is packaging (AKA shipping box) vs actual part. The package has -C and -B suffixes. Both the old and new HPWC part have only a -B suffix. This is why I was complaining - until we know the lowest serial number for the new units, there's no way to tell short of opening it up. And, I suspect that they had lots of cases on hand with the part and serial numbers already printed (or didn't want to pay the price of retooling) so they just "slipstreamed" the change in. This is bad for a number of reasons - like their subcontractor finds a missing palette of cases with old SNO's or "new old" assembled inventory. They could at least have slapped a sticker on the back.
I think it is probably safe to assume thatthe -C box has the new HPWC but it would be good to actually hear that from TMC.�
Jun 12, 2013
kruecab Based on TurboFroggy's pics (thanks!!) I have the old design with fuses vertical vs horizontal. Also my HPWC part number ends in a -B.
Has anyone had service upgrade your HPWC either with ranger or self-install?
It seems like this would be a great topic for TM to post about on the TM forums.�
Jun 13, 2013
jpasqua I emailed ownership today about getting back up to 80A on my existing HPWC. Here is the response I received:
As soon as I hear from the service folks, I'll let you know what I learn.�
Jun 13, 2013
PeterK SolarCity installed mine in May and said Tesla would be sending them out at their expense to do the swap if/when there was one.�
Jun 13, 2013
andrewket I spoke to Nathan @ Rockville SC today. He didn't know anything about an HPWC swap or new fuses. He said he would look into it and get back to me.
It appears Tesla is still doing a very poor job keeping their service centers informed.�
Jun 13, 2013
brianman Some know more than others. I'll say more once I get confirmation vs. rumor.�
Jun 13, 2013
efusco Wonder if we can keep the old unit? Wouldn't mind hooking it up to a 50amp circuit at my Lake house...�
Jun 13, 2013
FlasherZ It sounds like they're going to take them back for rework/retrofit and use them as replacements.�
Jun 13, 2013
B-Chicago Received mine via fedex today. Part number ends in "C".�
Jun 15, 2013
jasonsc I called Tesla on Thursday around noon PDT and was told I would get a call back within 72 hours. I was in a bad way on Tuesday and needed the full charge capability, because of the slow charge, ended up with around 25 miles 'ideal' range left, needless to say this was the first time I cut it that close, which probably isn't that close.
In any event, the person I spoke with at Tesla corporate was aware of the new updated units, or the 'fix', but unaware of what process they are going to be using. I told him I didn't even really care about the electrician, I could have mine do it, and I would cover that cost. I just wanted a unit that worked at full amperage.
72 hours comes and goes by Monday, so we will see. If they referred it to my local service center, it could be a week before I hear from them. They are so busy that unless you pester them, you don't get a response, and I would prefer to wait until I really need support for that card to be played.
-jason�
Jun 15, 2013
bluetinc Jason,
If you are in need, you can still charge at 80A, you just have to overrule the car. Since this problem is caused by heat, short periods of this are low risk. Depending on exacts, you could also take the front of the unit off to allow it to cool well during charging at 80A, but that does expose live 240V and should be considered dangerous. Depending on where the unit is set up, and who has access to the area this may not even be a possibility.
Peter
�
Jun 15, 2013
brianman Welcome to the forum, jasonsc. I think we're about a week or two before this stuff resolves itself regarding retrofits for existing HPWCs. I'm not saying everyone's will be fixed or replaced by then, but that we'll have some more official information.�
Jun 15, 2013
FlasherZ I guess one point I should make is that since the HPWC is the same (same part number and revision), even if you have the fixed model I suspect the car is still going to give you the warning and lock you down to 60. I'm guessing the next software release will remove that, after Tesla gets new units to everyone who has one.�
Jun 19, 2013
jasonsc Never got my call back from Tesla as expected and had to place two calls to them yesterday. Finally they referred it to my local service center who is trying to find out what is going on. So now they are trying to find out if there is a "new" HPWC (we know there is) and what they are going to do with it....
I'll let you know if I receive any updates.�
Jun 19, 2013
patp This is the answer I received today:
"As of yesterday evening the service teams are awaiting instructions on how to properly provide this upgrade. I asked them if there was an ETA for when they would begin performing these requests and they said, �very soon.� If they still have not reached out to you by next week, please alert me."�
Jun 19, 2013
TurboFroggy +1 on this.
If you are truly desperate to charge at 80 Amps, take the cover off and put a stand-up fan blowing on the guts of the unit then crank the amps up to 80. Have a backup plan though (14-50) and be aware that there will be exposed 240V with the cover off. I actually think that if you were to remove the cover and then hang it by the built-in tab at the top of the cover that would also work and would protect the exposed hot wires inside and you could leave the cover semi-attached. This would allow it to breath and lower the internal temps to the fuses should survive 80 amp charging.
However there is some danger in this plan with the exposed electrified internals of the HPWC. You also need to be very careful of the ribbon cable that connects the cover to the internal circuit board.
BE CAREFUL...�
Jun 19, 2013
irishstoutaz Checked with our SC today when we dropped off our MS for some minor items... they were not aware of any 'fixes' yet for the HPWC. I mentioned the reconfigured fuses and he said he would check and let me know.�
Jun 20, 2013
jasonsc This afternoon I will probably have to do this. Luckily, when they provided my fuse (which actually blew at 60amps of charging), and since they wouldn't install it (I did it, pretty simple), I got an extra spare. I hadn't thought of a fan blowing across it, but I can do that. I live in a pretty good climate, so it will only be 70-75 in the garage.
Let's just hope they figure out how to fix this once and for all. We know they have on the installed ones. I did hear they were shipping out around 4,000 hangars, so it would appear they have 4,000 HPWC out there, which is not an insignificant number.
-jason�
Jun 20, 2013
bluetinc Just a minor note; You don't need to keep the ribbon cable connected. I run mine without the front face on the unit at all. All other noted caveats still apply.
Peter
�
Aug 17, 2013
NigelM Are there still plenty of folks waiting for the fuse fix? I haven't followed up due to traveling lots in July, but so far have heard nada from Tesla.�
Aug 17, 2013
andrewket I was calling once a week. Two weeks ago the Rockville SC received ~5 new fuse sets. Had I not called I sincerely doubt I would have heard a thing. I'm glad I had them today, too. My sister in law went into early labor and I had to charge the car from 50% to 90% in a hurry.�
Aug 17, 2013
FlasherZ Last I heard, there were many waiting for the fix. From what I've observed, though, it seems like it might be one of those "we'll fix it when it breaks" problems. 5.0 will reset the charge current to 80A, and unless you call the service center to get them to replace it (either because you know about it, or you blow the fuses), it doesn't appear they will track you down.�
Aug 17, 2013
sgblank I had one of the "old" HPWC's that came the same day with my car in March.
After reading about the new fuses on this forum I emailed Menlo Park service the evening of Aug 13th about updating my HPWC.
A ranger came to my house the evening of the 16th and upgraded the fuses.
Just drop your local service center an email.�
Aug 17, 2013
AnOutsider My SC hadn't heard of a fuse fix. I ended up being given 2 new HPWCs.�
Aug 17, 2013
FlasherZ Mine kept telling me the same too, although I was told to sit tight for the fix "from corporate". The service center keeps remarking how well connected those of us on TMC are...�
Aug 18, 2013
Sparrow Yes, I am still awaiting the fix. Emailed our local SC on Friday, but haven't heard gotten a response yet. Will phone on Monday afternoon if I haven't heard anything.�
Aug 18, 2013
Al Sherman So please let me get this straight for the "DA caucus."
When I get 5.0 I can still set the charging to 60 amps on the touchscreen correct?�
Aug 18, 2013
NigelM The ability to set amps hasn't changed. It does sound like the default changed back to 80A though.�
Aug 18, 2013
FlasherZ The automatic de-rating to 60A no longer occurs. If you set 60A as your custom charging rate, it will remain. If you set it up to 80A now, it will hold that value as your usual charging rate.�
Aug 18, 2013
NigelM I have the B version and a low serial number so finally got around to sending off a mail to the Service Center. Now to wait and see what happens, although Tampa service is very good at quick follow-ups; still strikes me as odd that Tesla hasn't been on top of this issue seeing as it was 11 months ago that I actually paid for darn thing.:frown:
- - - Updated - - -
Well I said that Tampa were good. 4 minutes after sending a mail (Sunday today!) the Service Manager replied that he has some set aside for me but they haven't gotten time to come visit this area yet and they'll call to make an appointment next week. :smile:�
Aug 18, 2013
Mayhemm Impressive! Let us know how you make out, Nigel.
I need to order two of these. Is there any chance of me getting an old one?
Would I be better to wait a few months to minimize the risk of problems? (fuses blowing, overheating internals, etc)�
Aug 19, 2013
AnOutsider I would think that any going out right now are going to be the newer models.�
Aug 19, 2013
Sparrow I called my local SC today, they have the new fuses in stock, and I have a tech coming out to replace the fuses next Tuesday. So for now it would seem that you have to ask for the HPWC fix if you wanted it done sooner than later.�
Oct 18, 2013
NigelM I'm actually supposed to be getting my fuses installed next Tuesday.......Yay!�
Oct 18, 2013
Mayhemm Be sure to keep us posted, Nigel!
Does your HPWC work without issue now?�
Oct 18, 2013
pilotSteve Ranger replaced my old HPWC fuses with the new ones. Took him about 20 minutes and I've charged twice (have to keep resetting the 60A limit darn until 5.x firmware) with no problems.
Of course I charged for three months no problems at 56 mph (79A/234V). I chickened out and have not charged at 80A since then because I would be up that famous creek without a 15kW paddle if I blew my old fuses!!!!
Nice to be back to 80A 20kW charging.�
Oct 20, 2013
NigelM It only ever charges at 60A and as was confirmed many(!) months ago I do have old fuses so I haven't tried it at 80A, Tesla has been good but still amazing when I'm at the one year anniversary of my Model S and the HPWC should finally be working as intended next week.�
Oct 20, 2013
Kraken I got my fuses this week. I was told that the firmware currently will still limit to 60A. They sent a minor update that prevents the car from charging at 80A evidently?. I've tried to charge at 80 with the new fuse, it won't do it. I thought it had charged at 80A at the service center last week though.
so now I guess we wait for the firmware to be re updated to allow 80A again.�
Oct 20, 2013
Cottonwood This software limit is so very strange. I just tested the new install of a 70A, J1772 in Pagosa Springs, CO yesterday, see 4 Corners EV Charging. The EVSE is from ClipperCreek. The car said the limit was 69A, not 70...I remembered this HPWC 60A limit, so I tried and one screen push moved the limit from 69 to 70A, and it would not go higher. My MS has version 4.5. Why 69A? Its not 70A that is the J1772 pilot level, nor is it the old HPWC fuse limit of 60A...�
Oct 20, 2013
Lloyd You probably were not recieving perfect voltage, thus the drop of 1A.�
Oct 20, 2013
Cosmacelf Even when charging with a NEMA 14-50 at a nominal 40 amps, the display often will say 39 amps. I think the programmer just used the wrong rounding math function in his code, but who knows.�
Oct 21, 2013
Cottonwood Yes, but it let me use the touch screen to increase it to 70A. The current limit on the touch screen should not let you adjust to higher than the J1772 pilot.�
Oct 21, 2013
miimura Maybe the Clipper Creek pilot signal is a little on the low side?�
Oct 21, 2013
brianman Or it's actually below 40A and the UI is being conservative. I prefer "floor" to "round" for such things, personally. I'd rather have charge happen faster than I planned rather than take longer because someone thought rounding up was more compelling.�
Oct 22, 2013
NigelM My car does the same, always. Set it it to 60A and it shows pulling 59A, set to 80A and it pulls 79A. The Rangers were here today and exchanged my fuses so I asked the question and they said it's like that on all cars. But hey, my HPWC finally works as intended! :-D.....Now I just need the FW update so I don't have to keep resetting the charge limit in the car.�
Oct 22, 2013
cinergi No -- I've seen the *limit* at 69A on a charger or two before. Nothing to do with the actual draw.�
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