Oct 17, 2015
ar4c Due to the videos I am witnessing online, I truly feel there will be an AutoPilot/AutoSteer related vehicle crash soon. This is because people simply cannot follow directions, and it affects the safety of not only themselves- but everyone on the road. There is even a video of a complete fool filming from the back seat.
I feel regulators will force Tesla to pull the feature until it can be modified/improved to the point it requires hands-on only operation, and more bugs are worked out. I also think it should use GPS to disable AutoSteer unless its on a known freeway or highway, and not on surface streets. Think about the other idiot who was driving on a 1 lane road and AutoSteer almost killed him and the passengers in the other lane. This is like handing a loading weapon to Simple Jack from Tropic Thunder.
Too many idiots are going to mess this up for all of us. My prediction, enjoy the AutoSteer function- because its not going to last.
Also, AutoPark sucks and doesn't work 99% of the time. Just throwing that in there too.�
Oct 17, 2015
DougH There is no way that Tesla would release it then pull it.�
Oct 17, 2015
ar4c When it comes to safety reasons.. why wouldn't they? One issue with it caught on camera jerking the wheel into another car will be a PR nightmare and also affect their stock. I can see them pulling it until more kinks are worked out, due to pressure from regulators. Look at some of the videos with it jerking the wheel into other lanes. Its too buggy for idiots who do not know how to use it properly.�
Oct 17, 2015
eye.surgeon I'll be sad to see it happen but in a world where hot coffee requires a label advising not to pour in your lap, it's hard to see AP lasting long. The only reason we have it in the first place is private industry being more efficient at launching new tech than government is at regulating it.�
Oct 17, 2015
Troy They don't need to pull autosteer. They just need to tweak a few things:
1. Disable autopilot if driver is not seated.
2. Disable autopilot if there is no center divider.
3. Clarify that drivers need to check mirrors before initiating an auto lane change.
4. Add traffic lights recognition before a pedestrian gets run over at traffic lights.�
Oct 17, 2015
ar4c How do those things address it from randomly jerking the wheel into other lanes? Also, it can still be initiated on side streets- how can it disable AP if there is no center divider, it has no idea how to differentiate 4 lanes on a free way vs 1 lane each way on a 2 lane road. Not possible. Needs GPS enabled only "whitelist" of roads and blacklist the others that are not well known highways.�
Oct 17, 2015
Archer You should short the stock since you are so certain about it all.
There are over 32,000 car fatalities per year in the US. I'm surprised regulators haven't pulled all cars from the road until there's some kind of system that makes sure people always have 2 hands on the steering wheel, prevents people from driving too close to the car in front of them, makes sure they look carefully before lane changes, never allows them to go above the speed limit, prevents them from running red lights, does not allow driving while intoxicated, etc., etc.
AP warns that you should keep your hands on the steering wheel. Just because people choose not to do so is not a flaw of the system any more than blind spot warnings may not always be 100% accurate and therefore, people are still liable if they cause a crash because they didn't check their blindspot.�
Oct 17, 2015
yo mama The only reason this becomes an issue is because of the "shark attack" factor. You know, things that are statistically improbable to hurt anyone - but that nevertheless cause mass panic. There is like 90 car-related deaths a DAY. Autopilot is not/will not be the problem. Some jackhole being stupid/drunk/poor driving will be the problem, just like with most every traffic accident.�
Oct 17, 2015
ar4c Lets not start with the whole "stock shorting" BS.. c'mon.
In those fatalities, please name one where the cars decisions and actions through programming and software potentially killed someone? That's the problem here. The car now has a mind of its own, and if there are any flaws that is ammo for regulators to use against it. Not saying I am predicting its demise, but maybe it will have to be pulled until its polished more. Not letting a bunch of lemmings drive around with Beta software on public roadways.�
Oct 17, 2015
yo mama I don't believe that you know what you're talking about. Question: how many miles have you, personally, actually driven using AP?�
Oct 17, 2015
Archer
Do you even own a Tesla? The moment you activate AP, it warns that you should keep your hands on the wheel. The driver is still responsible no matter what. Just like it is now in all cars. By the way, the car doesn't have a mind of it's own. It's a driver assist feature - not a fully autonomous vehicle.�
Oct 17, 2015
Lloyd I believe that online training of proper use would be beneficial for all.�
Oct 17, 2015
Khatsalano Are you going to eat your hat if your prediction is wrong?
- K�
Oct 17, 2015
ratsbew Yes. I fully support an online CBT (computer based training) on the my.teslamotors.com site that disables AP from your car if you don't complete an initial and annual refresher course. Maybe even a monthly "quick refresher".�
Oct 17, 2015
green1 I propose a course with one question, it should take under 15 seconds to pass this course:
1) are you supposed to remain in control of the vehicle at all times? Y/N
If you answer N the car should refuse to leave park ever again.�
Oct 17, 2015
P85DEE You'll see more of this.
Those who are not happy because Tesla has taken this concept farther than any other auto manufacturer, and is prominently back in the spotlight with it, now all of a sudden feigning concern about operator "safety".
Why aren't they fighting for the banning of cars capable of reaching speeds almost 3 times the average posted highway speed limit in the U.S., cars which can legally find their way under the control of junior who just got his driver's license last week and whose parents decided to indulge him for his birthday, in the interest of safety?
All of a sudden we're worried about the "safety" of auto pilot. But we weren't worried about it's safety when it was starting to look like it wasn't going to come to pass anytime soon. We weren't worried about it's safety when we were making bets on if it was going to come out at all.
We're worried about the "safety" of auto pilot, but we aren't worried about the prospect of a new Corvette Z06, Dodge Viper, or Porsche 997 Turbo, or some other virtual race car with a license plate on it, ending up in the hands of some teenager still in high school.
But now all of a sudden, autopilot is a menace, a scourge, and ought to be pulled from the market, because "somebody might hurt themselves if they're foolish with it".�
Oct 17, 2015
Canuck To be fair, the OP said:
I think he makes good points. Many things in our society are governed by the lowest common denominator. The OP doesn't like it and he made a prediction that he likely doesn't want to see come to pass but it makes for an interesting discussion and that's what being here is all about.
It's unfortunate how many attacks there have been on here lately with the label of "troll" being used a lot whereas in the past calling someone a troll was really frowned upon unless it was patently obvious the person was a troll. And the comments of "do you even own a Tesla" I find rude. It's fine to find out if someone owns one and thus has personal experience, but the question should be asked politely and not with insinuation that they can't comment if they don't own one. People who don't own a Tesla are just as welcome here as those who do. I started here not owning one and was welcomed with open arms and helpful advice. Many of those people barely post anymore and I can see why.�
Oct 17, 2015
S4WRXTTCS I don't think they'll pull autosteer, but I imagine there might be some tightening up of it. Either through GPS fencing, or through nagging. You have to keep in mind that Tesla is far from the only company on the market with a car that does some form of autosteer.
You also have to keep in mind that misunderstanding with how TACC worked caused at least one crash, and probably a few that I don't know about. Sure it was less sensational, and didn't cause much media attention but it still happened.
What I've love to see Tesla do is to go the "No Soup for You" route. Where it automatically recognizes people that are being absolutely ridiculous with it, and simply shuts it off for them.
HAHAHA!!! that would be AWESOME because it's always just a few idiots that ruin it for the rest of us.�
Oct 17, 2015
bmw_b Autopilot vs Cruise Control
How many years since we got Cruise Control in millions of cars which have no sensors whatsoever to detect whether we are fast approaching the car in front of us. It is the driver who must keep an eye and put the foot on the breaks otherwise the car would simply crash into the car ahead.
I bought my Mercedes Coupe in 2013. It has has cruise control just like the Merc of 2009 and the one of 2005 and the Jag of 2001 and I believe it started at least as early as the 80s.
Autopilot is a smarter cruise control with detectors. It will break when approaching a slower car and it tries to keep the lane it is driving in. B-t-w a feature you can order in newer Benz for a few years. It is called adaptive cruise control and when you move out of your lane the steering wheel starts to vibrate to alert the driver unless you had activated the indicator.
So people just relax, Tesla is neither the first (they just made it a tiny bit smarter), nor they only one. You are already surrounded by millions of cars which do pretty much the same or worse ... cruise control with NO sensors.
bmw�
Oct 17, 2015
P85DEE Interesting post.
But a bit of trivia.
Cruise control was actually invented by a blind man. It has been in vehicles for 57 years now.
The Blind Man Who Invented Cruise Control
The first cars to get it were the 1958 Chrysler Imperial, Chrysler New Yorker, and Windsor. In the 1960s, cruise control started to show up in Cadillacs. When I was in high school, among the cars my family owned, was a classic 1964 Cadillac which had been in the family for years. One day, just thumbing through the owner's manual, I came across the subject of cruise control and while the car we had, didn't have it, it was apparently optional in the 1964 models, the cruise control consisted of a dial, or a wheel if you will. You rotated that wheel to the speed you wanted. The wheel had numbers on it representing the speed that the driver would select that he wished to cruise at. The manual cautioned you not to rotate the wheel too fast, lest the car speed up uncontrollably fast.�
Oct 17, 2015
JonG VW Passat CC Lane Assist - steers by itself - YouTube
Auto steer is not new, it's just the best implementation so far. Slightly unfortunate the first clip I found was from VW given their reputation but it's not caused them any issues.
My prediction is the first person caught being stupid using it will be prosecuted hard to send a message to everyone else.�
Oct 17, 2015
Archer There is no insinuation that he can't comment unless he owns a Tesla. The insinuation is that he is making very hyperbolic statements about the AP system and calling people idiots even though it doesn't appear that he has used it himself. Nothing more than that.�
Oct 17, 2015
Johan This and multiple other threads popping up lately are examples of a social, cultural and human cognitive phenomenon: New technology, new possibilities or new phenomena often seem scary, dangerous and "taken a step to far". Within a short time period we come to accept them as natural and positive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henny_Penny#Idiomatic_usage
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neophobia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technophobia
These things have a clear tendency to cool off given some time. This time seems to be short and shorter as human history progresses. Technologies that in earlier centuries would take years or decades to gain acceptance often nowadays become integrated in our daily lives in months or weeks. The change cycle is quicker now than before. Threads like this is mainly noise.
I'm not trying to belittle anyone, just making an objective empirical observation based on human history.�
Oct 18, 2015
Nigel16494 Currently every Cruise control out there is more dangerous than Tesla with or without autosteer. I hate cruise control since it is dangerous. I have however started to use TACC which is far superior. Now today I used autopilot and I am impressed. Tesla make things we need better and I never cease to be impressed. Never in my 20 years of BMW ownership did I ever wake up to a better car. If I wanted a better BMW I paid my $200 or more for a software update or bought the next model.�
Oct 18, 2015
Lerxt
7 posts? Welcome BMW, to the forums.�
Oct 18, 2015
shelbri The only reason to pull autosteer is not as a result of it causing an accident but as a result of it causing statistically more accidents than human steer. My guess is that even with folks playing around and causing minor fender benders, the number of avoided accidents (which will never be reported) will exceed the number caused. A step in the right direction. The challenge will be to prove this since misses are not reported but accidents are.�
Oct 18, 2015
Matias Tesla should rather soon be able to tell, if there is a statistical difference in accidents between AP Model Ses and non AP Model Ses.�
Oct 18, 2015
yobigd20 Lol they pulled suspension lowering and never gave it back. This was back in 2013 I think after a few fires occurred by people driving over objects and the battery packs combusted. They basically tricked us into thinking we got it back but when they "gave it back" they just increased the base height so in reality they never truly gave it back to us.�
Oct 18, 2015
P85DEE They gave back an improved and safer version of it.�
Oct 18, 2015
Max* I'm not reading another 4 pages of silliness. Autopilot != Autonomous. The diver is in charge. Period.�
Oct 18, 2015
ar4c Why so much hostility here, being called a "troll" and other derogatory comments because of my post count? Is this how you welcome all new members here? It must be a real treat being a guest in your homes for the first time..
In all honesty I'm a 2X Tesla owner, first car a '14 P85 and now a '15 P85D. I've used autopilot for around 100 miles now and find it to work pretty well. Some of you are not understanding my point. I'm predicting they pull AutoSteer because of people who are using it incorrectly and not following directions, which in its current form is subceptible to steering the car in an unsafe way, on the wrong roads. Because of this, regulators usually will regulate based on the idiots on the road, which right now- would be people not following the warnings of the beta software on our cars. All it will take is one accident and Tesla may be forced to pull it until the kinks are worked out more... Just like the suspension firmware that took away the low setting that was pointed out earlier.
No need for name calling, no need for condescending attitudes, I really just thought this could be a good topic to discuss. Here's to hoping for mature and grown up responses from here.
Cheers�
Oct 18, 2015
AlMc I doubt TM pulls the product. They will do a number of tweaks to prevent some of the things seen recently on video. Inevitably someone will push this to the limit and an accident will occur. TM will have to be aggressive in the response to make sure they have a voice to counter any FUDsters.
I endorse the idea of some type of 'online training' before use. Could all be done on the 17" screen. Only issue I see with this is if I pass the 'test' and another driver using the car has not taken it. Might be good to have a remote shut off of the AP (similar to the phone control of on/off of the valet mode)
I try not to label people according to their post counts or comments. For all that remember 'Ed' and the bashing he/she took initially about the X delay, that would be a great example. Post comments about the subject not the person.�
Oct 18, 2015
dhanson865 Well I don't agree with autosteer being pulled by Tesla but I do applaud your restraint after being called a troll.
I'm thinking Tesla will publish stats and tweak the software without ever pulling it.�
Oct 18, 2015
Johan ... And we're discussing it.
You believe it will be retracted either by Tesla (for PR reasons?) or prohibited by regulators.
Many believe it won't because Tesla are being very clear that the driver remains in charge and with full responsibility at all times.
Cars are dangerous, they can cause plenty of harm when used inappropriately. Nothing new here, just another feature.�
Oct 18, 2015
liuping Sorry if you are feeling hostility as a new member. With no posting history, no-one can tell if you are a real sincere person or a troll. Some jump to troll quickly if the first posts are overly negative.
There is a history of people coming in and posting inflammatory or negative remarks to try to hurt Tesla for some reason (shorting stock, work for NADA, who knows). After a short time, bloggers and some press pick up the posts as evidence of unhappy Tesla Owners or as a sign of Problems with Tesla cars.�
Oct 18, 2015
ecarfan In the near future people will start to consider traditional cruise control "dangerous" because it does not take into account what is happening around the car, unlike TACC and Autopilot which most of the time is better at analyzing threats than the human driver is capable of.
Autopilot is here to stay. It will improve rapidly. This discussion will soon be considered ancient history. With its first release Tesla has significantly exceeded every other system on the market and all the other car companies are now scrambling to catch up, while Tesla forges ahead.�
Oct 18, 2015
Matias One very quick fix would be to put in release notes that it is forbidden to use AP in two way roads without some divider between different directions (I don't know what is the right English term).�
Oct 18, 2015
MsElectric Prediction: Those who are whining about Autopilot have the option to not use it and it will finally dawn on them to stop the FUD.
Further Prediction: Tesla Autopilot will improve over time and save lives.
End of story.�
Oct 18, 2015
Johan Yes, let's.
If we all take a step back and consider the situation, I think we should try to avoid getting caught up in status quo bias. Status quo bias means a strong tendency for us as humans to think that the current state of affairs, the current time that we live in or the current level of technology is for some reason the optimum. This is very seldom the case. Other effects of this bias, which seems to be intuitively strong with humans, is to say "Things we're better before/when I was young/before technology xxx occurred or came in to existence".
Let's think of auto pilot in its current form as a step change up from TACC, which in turn is a step up from regular CC. Now who would argue that TACC is worse than regular "dumb" cruise control? If you can't find a good logical reason why TACC would be worse than regular CC than I argue that there's no inherent reason why Tesla auto steering is worse than just lane departure warning.
With TACC that works well the car will accelerate and slow down "on its own". With auto steering the car will steer "on its own". Aren't both potentially dangerous? Yet TACC is fully accepted, it seems.
I think the key issue here is that for Tesla's autopilot to be an improvement it has to be implemented well. If it's implemented poorly then it's a dangerous feature, naturally. We will have to assume Tesla has tested this technology thoroughly before releasing it in to the wild. If not, they're fools. In my experience Tesla aren't fools.�
Oct 18, 2015
Matias As I said, if Tesla would explicitly forbid to use it in two way streets without divider, I think it would prevent any possible liability with head on collisions.�
Oct 18, 2015
Niclas +1 agree 100%�
Oct 18, 2015
Johan So there's no hot coffee being served anymore? News to me.�
Oct 18, 2015
tezzla They should limit the speed to the speed limit also, have you seen how many videos there are of people racing cars over the speed limit!!!!!! Somebody is going to get killed!!! <end sarcasm>
Driver's are 100% responsible to use how ever they want. I don't need a nanny car.�
Oct 18, 2015
brec Emphasis added to both quotes.
I assume the reference is to the YouTube video, "Tesla AutoPilot tried to kill me".
The video is short, but to maximize efficiency you can start watching in the middle. This will give you a few seconds to acclimate before the critical scene.
In that scene, simultaneously listen to the car and watch the steering wheel. The audible warning to the driver that the autopilot has disconnected and the driver must assert control begins before the wheel is "jerked" to the left. It begins as the wheel is moving slightly left, and then, as the driver's hands are off the wheel and the steering is uncontrolled, it happens to turn farther left.
It takes a second or so for the driver to respond. There was no collision; no one was killed nor injured.
Edit: here's a link from another thread to the same video, but slowed down during the critical scene. This one makes it clear that there would have been no collision even if the driver delayed longer in reasserting control.�
Oct 18, 2015
skilly They could adjust it. Don't see them pulling it at all. a dot release could link to GPS and only allow it on freeways - or perhaps limit its function to highway speeds (not to be confused with the limiting speed!!! Speeding does NOT cause accidents!). And as for the jackass that was in the backseat driving, I don't even know how this is possible unless he put a brink in the front seat to trick the car into believing it had a driver.�
Oct 18, 2015
eclipxe Thank you! I hate the fact that people see one video, don't understand what really happens, then tries to predict/regulate/nanny everyone else. It really infuriates me. The car is doing EXACTLY what it is supposed to there. It loses confidence in the road, alerts the driver and removes the applied torque from the wheel. This is exactly what we would expect. AutoPilot IS NOT steering into oncoming traffic or anything of the sorts, and it is frankly discouraging that other owners can't think critically about this.
What would you rather have AutoPilot do? Keep applying torque even though it didn't know where the lanes were? That would be even worse!�
Oct 18, 2015
LetsGoFast When TACC was released, we had some of the same discussions. It was clear that many people used TACC for city driving even though Tesla suggested that you shouldn't. Several people reported near misses and there were even a few videos. Some people predicted Tesla would prevent us from using TACC on surface streets and others predicted doom and gloom for either the stock price or litigation following terrible accidents. Neither happened. I predict this will be much the same situation.�
Oct 18, 2015
ToddRLockwood The most important Autopilot features are those related to accident avoidance: automatic braking, adaptive cruise control, vehicle awareness, lane awareness. Lane-keeping is a nifty trick to show your friends, but I predict that most drivers will tire of it because of the oversight required.�
Oct 18, 2015
stopcrazypp Let me address a few points. For the "troll" accusations, I think you have to excuse members for the paranoia, but recently it has been justified. There was a thread also about autopilot safety where the OP was caught as actually being a troll (using a fake persona to do "concern trolling"). That thread has since been removed just today. I'm sure that thread is still fresh in most people's minds.
You simply match the characteristic: your first post and thread on TMC is one that suggests a recent Tesla feature is unsafe, should be severely limited in functionality, and may have side-skirted regulation. That naturally rings alarm bells in a lot of people here, no matter if it is justified for not.
Now putting that aside, I'm going to directly address your points.
1) Tesla has been publicly adamant that autopilot is not autonomous driving and that all legal responsibility falls on the driver. Elon even suggested owners to should keep their hands on the wheel for this version. It's pretty clear that the driver should be ready to take over at any time and the car has visual and auditory cues when it needs you to do that.
2) The car has warning messages both for first activation (after update install) and subsequent activation of the feature. Why do you feel this is not sufficient (given you are an owner with the option you have seen both messages already)? What changes to the specific message do you suggest if not?
3) Tesla is not the first to offer auto-steering, even one where you can keep your hands off for extended periods of time. The Infiniti Q50 allows you to do that too (difference is that "ping pongs" and it doesn't allow lane changing with a flick of the turn signal).
4) The same warnings about danger was talked about when TACC/AEBS came out, even a thread about an accident that was caused by a user misunderstanding the limitations of the system. There was no ban of TACC/AEBS as a result or a pulling back of functionality. Rather, people used the system more and became more familiar with the limitations, which made them safer, not less safe.
5) Tesla is awaiting regulatory approval for releases in Europe and Asia, so it is baseless to suggest that Tesla didn't have regulatory approval to release here (assuming it is even required).�
Oct 18, 2015
vitaliy Tesla launched Autopilot for highways. So they say. But intention was to collect the data about all roads. I think that as soon as they collect enough to data about rarely used roads, they will restrict usage to highways only. After 3-6 month of improving autopilot they allow all roads again.�
Oct 18, 2015
eloder Due to the videos I am witnessing online, I truly feel there will be a Cruise Control related vehicle crash soon. This is because people simply cannot follow directions, and it affects the safety of not only themselves- but everyone on the road. There is even a video of a complete fool filming while using it in a residential area.
I feel regulators will force all carmakers to pull the feature until it can be modified/improved to the point it requires feet-on only operation, and more bugs are worked out. I also think it should use GPS to disable Cruise Control unless its on a known freeway or highway, and not on surface streets. Think about the other idiot who was driving on a curvy and Cruise Control almost killed him and the passengers in the other lane. This is like handing a loading weapon to Simple Jack from Tropic Thunder.
Too many idiots are going to mess this up for all of us. My prediction, enjoy the Cruise Control function- because its not going to last.
Also, this post is FUD and its logic doesn't work 99% of the time for other car features that similarly can be, and have been, abused. Just throwing that in there too.�
Oct 18, 2015
AlMc As to autopark: I have used it literally 8x....no issues. Parks in a space I would probably not try on my own�
Oct 18, 2015
NoMoGas Days like this I really hate this forum... Providing tons of ammo for know nothing reporters to write stories about the $130,000.00 death trap that's known to randomly catch fire, crash into stopped cars, and now even steer you into your certain death... Except none of that is true.
The car deals with mathematical equations, not human perception. Yes, it may have LOOKED like you may have crashed into that car stopped at the light, but did it? Nope. Not once. Ever. The autopilot when used AS INTENDED is great and getting better. Tesla cannot Force people to use the vehicle as intended. If they could be held responsible for that, no car ever made in United States would exceed 80 mph. And yet we have high-speed crashes all the time on vehicles that are capable of doing over 100 mph, With no liability to the car manufacturers.
Enough with all the chicken little nonsense please.
�
Oct 18, 2015
boofagle Tesla could add a button to the dash that says "do not push or car will explode!" but eventually someone somewhere would push it. There is a quote from Pirates of the Caribbean, "think of them as more guidelines than actual rules." People will push the limits just because they can. And theres people who want to be the cool guy/girl on YouTube who did that crazy stunt that got all the views and notoriety. It's not a Tesla problem, for better or worse its human nature. Now personally if I did have a model s with autopilot I sure as hell would be obeying the rules considering I'm in a car that can easily cost 6 figures. But that's just me.�
Oct 18, 2015
NoMoGas AGREED 100%. I have had zero issues with it and it works every time like a charm.�
Oct 18, 2015
ar4c What is your trick? There is a big thread about it, and many people cannot get it to work - or hardly ever. I have tried in about 20 different spaces and only had it work once. My friend who has an S85 gave up after the 10th try. Definitely look forward to improved software releases in the future for this, because as it stands- i'll stick to parking on my own so I don't hold up traffic trying to get it to work.
You are overreacting in an almost conspiracy-theory type of mindset. No one is trying to incite a PR nightmare by making a simple question for big boys to discuss. I see many disagree and thats totally fine. In no way is it some type of motive to make it anything more then it seems. *puts tin foil hat away*
For the people that did coherently read my OP, it has more of a theory to do with people who are being reckless and not following the directions and posting videos of dangerous situations. These people are the ones who probably look down the barrel of a loaded gun to see if it has a bullet in the chamber. I think it works pretty well for being so new, but the idiots out there using it in the wrong place and wrong time jeopardize the feature for the rest of us. All it will take is one idiot who gets in an accident (which we have seen proof on YouTube of such idiots) to possibly force Tesla to pull the feature until it can be polished a little more.�
Oct 18, 2015
roblab I think they will take AP away... from all those that publish sensationalist stories and videos. And maybe from anyone that has an "accident" (which is usually poor and unsafe behavior that ends in damage). I don't think they'll bother the rest of us.�
Oct 18, 2015
jeffro01 You have 12 posts... TWELVE and your first thread is some dumb controversy stirring debate on something that isn't going to happen and your calling me the conspiracy theory guy? Yikes...
Jeff
- - - Updated - - -
It'd be interesting to see if Tesla try's to take any steps against people it can positively identify doing stuff with AP that is dangerous and against the spirit of the functionality...
Jeff�
Oct 18, 2015
liuping Do you feel all car manufactures should recall all cars and install 85MPH speed limiters, because some people drive recklessly fast?
Should all cars be recalled, and have two-hands-on-the-wheel-at-all-times sensors installed, because some people can't stop themselves from texting?
Should all cars be pulled and modified so they will not start if there are any engine or brake system warning lights on, because that car is clearly unsafe to drive?
Should all cars with non traffic aware cruise control be pulled off the road immediately and have that feature removed, because it can cause a collision if the car infant of it slows down and the driver is not paying attention?
People fail to follow warnings and directions every day in every car model. And they cause many more accidents than auto pilot features on Tesla ever will.
No-one can can stop people from texting or fiddling with the radio while driving, but if the car can basically take over for short periods and sound an alarm if anything it can't handle occurs, that person has a much lower chance of having an accident.�
Oct 18, 2015
Larry Chanin Welcome to the forums.
I agree that there are a lot of idiots out there and it is only natural that some Tesla supporters would feel nervous about the risks of releasing AutoPilot functions that are in Beta test when we have so many foolish people behind the wheel in the first place.
However, ultimately that's the whole point, isn't it? That is, to mitigate the harm that foolish and impared drivers may do by being behind the wheel. If the driving public was without fault there would be little reason to pursue these Driver Assist features in the first place.
Whereas I appreciate your concern, I am critical of your immediate conclusion that AutoSteer almost killed the "driver" and passengers in the video that you cite. Your knee-jerk reaction without a more careful review of the facts is short sighted and it is simply not helpful to conclude from that single incident that the function needs to be removed.
Unless Tesla itself discovers a truly serious flaw in their software, not a bunch of avid forum members Monday Morning Quarterbacking YouTube videos, it is not likely this firmware is going to be pulled.
One thing that should be noted is that the Tesla implementation of AutoPilot is radically different from the competition. The entire fleet of Teslas are continuously connected to the Tesla mothership. In essentially real time the fleet is gathering high definition mapping information and the AutoPilot software is being trained by the human drivers. With every day that this Beta test proceeds the quality of the data improves. Those improvements occur continuously even between major firmware updates.
Larry�
Oct 18, 2015
NoMoGas Simply pull past ENTIRE spot at <15mph where your passenger door lies up with the front of the other cars drivers door, stop. Look for P to appear on dash, put in reverse and activate on main screen. DOES NOT WORK IF SPACE IS TOO SMALL, OR TOO BIG, and there must be a curb.�
Oct 18, 2015
wk057 Advice from Gomez Addams - YouTube
"With God as my witness, I am that fool!"
Seriously though, did you read the disclaimer? lol
Cross-posting a tidbit I just wrote in the thread about my video:
Private property? Check.
Road closed to all other traffic? Check.
No bystanders in any potential path of the vehicle? Check.
Anywhere the vehicle could go at this speed that could result in injury to others? Nope. Check.
Passenger ready to brake, steer, or otherwise control the vehicle as needed for safety? Check.
Speed as low as possible 18 MPH? Check.
Tested with driver multiple times prior? Check.
Straight section of road that probably could have been done like this without autopilot in the first place? Check.
Now while I can't speak for anyone else not following the directions, I highly doubt that Tesla will pull the auto steer feature nor do I think they have any reason to do so even if people are idiots. It explicitly a hands-on feature. Pretty sure it'd be a media frenzy if they tried to pull it. I'd personally immediately remove the wireless connectivity from my car the moment I heard of such a thing happening and would not install any pending update until that craziness was resolved.
Long story short, the OP seems to just be a bit sensationalist in his/her views. And this is coming from someone (me) who probably is in the top 5 people on this forum who have been very critical of Tesla.�
Oct 18, 2015
wannamodels +1!!!�
Oct 19, 2015
efusco Multiple posts moved to snippiness, please try to remain civil and mature folks.�
Oct 19, 2015
Jhall118 If Tesla pulls autopilot, will you be refunding the price of my car?
I think people are forgetting that this is a feature they advertised heavily, and sold a lot of cars based on. To pull it would have a cost, and I think cost would be greater than a risk of bad press from someone using the system not as designed.
It also helps that the auto steer works REALLY well. No regulatory agency is going to pull it.�
Oct 19, 2015
skilly just curious....its clear that people overlooked the basic instructions on usage; however, did everyone miss the word "BETA" beside the feature?? Don't feel safe; don't use it.
Like it or not, that's what it was labelled...here's a great definition:
In software development, a beta test is the second phase of software testing in which a sampling of the intended audience tries the product out. (Beta is the second letter of the Greek alphabet.) Originally, the term alpha test meant the first phase of testing in a software development process. The first phase includes unit testing, component testing, and system testing. Beta testing can be considered "pre-release testing." Beta test versions of software are now distributed to a wide audience on the Web partly to give the program a "real-world" test and partly to provide a preview of the next release.�
Oct 19, 2015
Ldub22 I think the only people who have discussed Tesla pulling Autopilot are the people who have posted on this thread (and maybe others) in order to fire people up and get us all talking about their own interests and posts.
Autosteer can be tricky, and you have to watch it. That pretty much goes for the entire act of driving. As long as we see improvement over time, I think that it is a great feature. As far as safety: if you set a regular cruise control, and don't pay attention, plowing through an intersection; that is no different than not paying attention to Autosteer and getting in a crash.
Welcome to the future! You still have to pay attention!�
Oct 20, 2015
Vitold The crux of the matter is that paying attention is not enough.
For one, reaction time is diminished when Autopilot is on and two Autopilot user interface is slow to alert a driver when it's unable to figure out where to go.
Given the limitations Autopilot should not be engaged in all situations. Some say that driver can make that determination but based on what - that it worked before in similar circumstances?�
Oct 20, 2015
Max* For one, how is reaction time diminished? You, as the driver should be in control of the vehicle at all times. Your hands are on the wheel. Once you sense the car doing something wrong, you should react. Reaction time = unchanged. Fatigue = diminished.
For two. how is autopilot slow to alert the driver? You hear a very loud beeping telling you to grab the wheel when AP is confused. Never had it happen? Then don't post speculative opinions as if they're facts.�
Oct 20, 2015
Vitold Your reaction time is diminished because your hands are NOT on the wheel and feet are not ready to brake. I don't want to speculate but since you ask, reaction time is probably slowed down by 1-2 seconds but it very much depends on a individual, type of the road and how long AP is on.
There are apps on the internet that measure reaction time if you want to measure yours but I think it's easy to figure out that time since you hear the beep to the time you have full awareness and control of the car is never 0. In some situations that's alright in others - not so much.�
Oct 20, 2015
Max* Your feet and hands should be on the wheel and brakes, right? If you follow directions, it clearly stated to keep your hands on the wheel.
A persons average reaction time is 250ms. You have to be very slow to take 750ms-1750ms to move your arms (assuming you're not following instructions) from your lap to the steering wheel. And if you are following directions, that's 250ms at 80mph is about 1/2 a car length before you react. At those speeds you should be leaving a lot more than 1/2 a car length to be safe.
�
Oct 20, 2015
Just a Reader I do consider this thread as entirely legitimate. Auto pilot without any aggressive "nagging" is uncharted legal territory and it will come under intense scrutiny after the first major accident with auto pilot and a driver who was doing something else while supposedly being in control.
It may not be universally so but there are jurisdictions that require manufacturers to not only issue instructions on how their products should be used, but also to monitor (within reason) how their products are actually being used.
When half of the respondents in online surveys confirm that they are violating instructions and use auto pilot without keeping their hands on the wheel, then lawyers will argue that Tesla should have taken appropriate steps to counteract this dangerous use. Unlike this forum the court room will not be packed with Tesla fans.�
Oct 20, 2015
digitaltim Why? They disabled the lowest suspension setting in the early days due to safety concerns.�
Oct 20, 2015
hockeythug Ok, go tell that to Infiniti and Mercedes as well.�
Oct 20, 2015
tinm Just catching up with this thread.
I predicted this a while ago, in the Short Term Stock Price thread. The weakest part of the autopilot system lies between the driver's seat and the steering wheel.
Tesla, which always gets an F in communications, is once again failing to do the right thing -- communicate and educate drivers. Every single driver should have to go through a training video that appears in the car's screens before they're allowed to engage autopilot the first time.
Autopilot driving is a whole new kind of driving. Unfortunately every day more people buy Teslas, we increase the chance that some of them just don't get what they need to be doing -- paying more attention not less. When you drive on your own, it's up to you to keep an eye on everything going on in 360 degrees... full situational awareness.
Autopilot hardware begins to reduce people's natural tendency to at least try to maintain 360-degree situational awareness. The hardware and software are spun as augmenting that awareness, sure, and 99% of the time they do. But some humans are going to drop the ball... tune out... doze off... daydream... check their smartphones... fiddle with the 17" screen one second too long... and they're going to get into a situation that the software and hardware simply cannot handle.
Remember, if you drive an average (hypothetical) 60 minutes per day total, and do fine 99% of the time with autopilot, that means 36 seconds out of each days' driving might encounter glitches, unexpected scenarios, situations that autopilot can't handle. Are you going to be alert during those 36 seconds? Every single day, forever?
Now multiply that by tens of thousands of Tesla owners, driving every day in their autopilot-powered vehicle.
As I mentioned in the other thread a while back, I figure it's only a matter of time before a few drivers reach the end of their good luck streak, and bad things happen. I just hope we don't have another news cycle like we had with the car f*res a few years ago, that sent the stock into a slump. Tesla's not going to be able to add a tungsten metal bar underneath the car this time.
I also predict that long-term, DMVs around the country are going to start requiring autopilot training as part of getting a drivers license. Do you think airline pilots don't get trained on how to use and when not to use autopilot? Of course they get trained. Why should it be different on the ground?�
Oct 20, 2015
Just a Reader
I've responded to that here already: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/55940-Will-Autopilot-force-other-manufacturers-to-accelerate-truly-hands-off-auto-steer
Makes no sense to discuss it in several threads simultaneously. Mercedes introduced the "nag" for exactly this reason.�
Oct 20, 2015
hockeythug Millions of drivers already don't pay attention far greater than 36 seconds a day. Just look around on the road at people texting and driving and doing god knows what.�
Oct 20, 2015
Max*
I saw, I deleted the comment here already.�
Oct 20, 2015
wk057 I disagree that autopilot increases reaction time at all when used properly. If your hands are on the wheel and you're paying attention, it takes no additional time for you to make a correction.
As for braking, in a non-autopilot vehicle you would have to lift your foot from the accelerator and move it to the brake pedal and press. With autopilot I cut out the first part and just press the brake with my foot that is right there.
Even with hands off the wheel I don't think reaction time is affected much, if at all. In one of my interstate drives I was completely hands off and the car in front of me (following distance setting of 4) ran over a piece of road debris (tire piece) that kicked up at me and I still was easily able to check if I could safely dodge it by jumping to the other lane and grab the wheel to do so without issue, just as I would have if I had been driving normally.
Looking through my video 60 FPS footage of similar situations, it takes me less than 90ms to get my hands back on the wheel from my lap AND move the wheel to the direction needed for the correction. I don't have non-autopilot footage to compare to, but I've got to believe that 90ms is well within the realm of normal correction time.�
Oct 20, 2015
jaguar36 Tesla clearly knew this would be ripe for lawsuits when they introduced it. I'm sure they've talked to their lawyers and are confident in their position. I'm sure there will be some lawsuits but Tesla should have planned on this and will surely have already calculated how much they think they will cost. Nothing that has been shown since the release has been a surprise.
Therefore there is no reason to think that they will change there mind and pull it.�
Oct 20, 2015
Troy Tesla could have done things a lot better. On this page there are videos created by Tesla:
Support | Tesla Motors
6 minutes video about Detailed Charging Walkthrough
3 minutes video about Seat and Window Controls
4 minutes video about Rear Facing Seats
4 minutes video about Roof Rack Installation
Why is there no video about auto lane change and auto steer? Why not make people watch a 3 minute video on Tesla website and enter a pin before activating autopilot? Compared to other car manufacturers, Tesla is in a unique position because they can easily communicate to all Tesla drivers through email (mytesla account) or the Tesla app or the touchscreen.
In this video at 1:34 the MS almost got rear ended because the driver doesn't understand that the car can't see behind. He initiates auto lane change when there is another car next to him to demonstrate it won't change lanes. This works correctly because the car next to him is within the 16 feet ultrasonics range. But as soon as that car clears, the MS starts changing lanes and it can't see the other car that is coming behind. Then when the other car comes within range, it beeps and the driver takes over. In this instance an accident was avoided just by luck because the car behind was able to slow down in time.
Auto lane change is often misunderstood because statements like these:
Screenshot source: Tesla website Model S page. (The page has changed now)
Screenshot source 15 Oct 2015
The car can't see behind more than 16 feet but people incorrectly assume it can. Even Tesla's own test driver misunderstood auto lane change. Quote: "It's gonna change the lane for me. It looks of course". Source: video at 1:12
What Tesla says:
"Engage the turn signal and Model S will move itself to the adjacent lane when it�s safe to do so." Source
The correct information:
Engage the turn signal and Model S will move itself to the adjacent lane regardless whether it's safe or not because it can't see behind more than 16 feet, so you better check yourself.
How Tesla could have phrased the correct information:
Before initiating an auto lane change, always make sure there are no vehicles approaching at higher speed on the target lane outside the 16 feet ultrasonic sensor range the car is able to detect.
As usual, Tesla marketing team is exaggerating things. They don't mention the 16 feet limitation at all and they make it look like that car can see behind. "When it�s safe to do so" is an incorrect statement. "When it�s safe to do so as long as the other car is within 16 feet range" would be correct.�
Oct 20, 2015
jeff_adams Darwin Award winners drive many types of cars. It's safe to assume a few will be driving Teslas.�
Oct 20, 2015
Bill r Tried autopilot from Seattle to park city. Had a problem while driving in the right hand lane. Auto stearing wanted to vear towards the exit road. It took a tight grip on the stearing wheel. This problem needs to be addressed..�
Oct 20, 2015
Johan Seen reports like your's several places. In this situation AP should disengage and alert the driver to take control, since the car obviously gets unsure whether to follow the road or take the exit.
Future updates where destination can be plotted will solve this, largely.�
Oct 20, 2015
ar4c Auto steer did the same thing to me today, jerked right to take an exit when I was in the right lane- no notifications, alerts - anything! It took a right turn as a car was quickly exciting and I would have cut him off. The driver also flipped me off as it gave the impression I was merging into his exit when I wasn't so it startled him. It has a long way to go.
On a side note, my car is rattling so bad I am getting tired of it.. rattles from 4 different locations, and passengers always comment on it. Decided to give my service center a call to schedule an appointment to fix.. unbelievable..6.5 WEEKS is the earliest they can get me in for an appointment as they are slammed. I asked what happens when the Model X comes out, they said "We have no idea, but it wont be pretty".
Seriously, Tesla is growing for their own good and IN MY OPINION rushing unfinished products to the market. How Autosteer is still in Beta after a year of its announcement is beyond me. I am really hoping competitors step up their electric vehicle offerings, because I wont be buying another Tesla if the snowball keeps rolling down hill.�
Oct 20, 2015
flyhigh123 the name " auto pilot" was the 1st mistake. It should be "Assisted Pilot". Calling it auto pilot makes many people assume it truly is automatic. This perception will cause accidents as the driver will say " i didn't know, it said auto pilot"�
Oct 20, 2015
DougH Then I would suggest you stop using the features that you feel are unfinished...right?�
Oct 20, 2015
EchoDelta Seems like a very definite statement. I'd say very possible within 99.99% the moment you have the whole fleet recording all your driving.
One thing is true- AP now is the worse it will ever be. I hope we go through the ramp up of the exponential quality with little incidents, for the industry and safety's sake
- - - Updated - - -
If it were me, I'd add a 'thumbs down' 'smack' or 'exclamation' button where you can flag an incident for tesla AP algorithms to learn from. In machine learning I have found these human in the loop assists for supervised teaching very important to flag these truly 'teachable moments'. Just one button, eg on the steering wheel. Then you let big data do the rest and figure out what about the moment was teachable.
You want to teach about the instances - which is solved by better mapping and clustering of behavior as you mention around specific locations - but also about the classes/patterns in the wild world.
For those interested in the sort of systems that succeed at this I recommend Taleb's latest book 'Antifragile' - about systems that go beyond resilience and don't just bounce back , but get better with stressors.�
Oct 20, 2015
Johan Hold the voice control, say "bug report" then state what went wrong. Goes straight to the software engineers, reportedly.�
Oct 20, 2015
AlMc Correct�
Oct 20, 2015
tezzla So what you're saying is: in the right lane it wants to veer right on the exits.
Okay, that took 2 seconds, now you know not to use it in the right lane or be ready for the same thing to happen. Okay, now you've learned a lesson.
See how that works? It's not a big deal and the sky is not falling.�
Oct 20, 2015
eloder
Uses a feature that's 3 years ahead of competitors.
Complains that it's not 10 years ahead of competitors?
Sure, AP will require improvement. But it's pretty incredible from everything I see here given how primitive the sensors are that they use, v. $75k Lidar and tools used by other cars that come remotely close to this level of self-control on a car.
If you're not happy with a Tesla, then vote with your wallet. I'm not sure why people use products that they aren't happy with.
As someone who works tech support, I can point out many dozens of heavy exaggerations on Apple's site about functionality found on their phones and products that don't quite match real life.
Welcome to being a consumer. That's why advertising with every company is always different than when you look through the full details. Why aren't taxes and surcharges and equipment costs advertised with phone plan prices? Why don't Windows 10 advertisements mention that the system can potentially crash at critical times? Why doesn't McDonald's warn consumers how unhealthy their meals are? Why single Tesla out on something that everyone does?
Companies that fully disclose and go over everything upfront in advertising space go bankrupt and out of business, and of story.�
Oct 20, 2015
doctorwho It's a 1.0 release, how many 1.0 releases of anything are a mature fully functional error free product? Let's have realistic expectations here.�
Oct 20, 2015
ar4c I see you own a Leaf, and not a Tesla.. Can you please tell us more about this subject? I'd like to hear more information about a Tesla from a Nissan owner.�
Oct 20, 2015
dsm363 Mode note: You really need to check your attitude. A leaf owner is perfectly able to comment on this.�
Oct 20, 2015
breser No thanks. I came from a car with it's nanny "I Agree" button on the navigation screen on every start. Where the passenger couldn't enter an address in the navigation system while the car was in motion. Tesla has avoided all of this sort of nonsense by treating owners like adults and leaving choices up to us.
All sorts of dangerous equipment comes with a text manual and no video to watch to learn how to operate it. The vast majority of people can manage to read the manual and operate it without making catastrophic mistakes. As far as I'm aware there still isn't a report of an autopilot crashes. Lots of "near crash" videos, largely being made by people being stupid in the process of making a video (it's depressing how many people are holding cameras while operating autopilot). But still no actual crashes.
Hate to break it to all of you guys but near crashes happen every day by people operating cars without any sort of autopilot. None of us have enough data to say if Autopilot is causing more of these sorts of incidents. So none of us have enough information to know if any sort of extraordinary measure needs to be taking. But so far it's my opinion that Tesla should keep treating their owners like adults.�
Oct 21, 2015
Max* Completely agreed.�
Oct 21, 2015
Vitold Your analogy fails because where people have a choice to do dangerous things (and the danger is well defined) drivers don't have a choice what Autopilot does nor they can predict when Autopilot will fail them.
People relinquish their driving to AutoPilot - it's Tesla that programs AP's behavior and they should restrict it where it does not perform well.�
Oct 21, 2015
Max* The driver is in control at all times. You're not supposed to relinquish control to AP. You're supposed to be aware of your surroundings.
And when AP does something stupid, you need to have enough time to react and fix it's behavior. For some people that might imply following the rules to a T, and keeping your hands on the wheel. For others, they may feel more comfortable and keep their hands on their laps/etc.�
Oct 21, 2015
Vitold I agree. That's why I don't think it should be engaged in all situations and Tesla knows the best which situations those are.�
Oct 21, 2015
MsElectric I predict this thread is going to look really silly in about a month or two
Autopilot will only improve and get better. Already the Tesla Autopilot system is better than systems found in other cars for months or years without issues.�
Oct 21, 2015
Max* We're chasing our tails here. I have the same textbook response to "Tesla knows better": then limit the speed on the car. Then install a breathalyzer. Then don't let the car drive without the seat belts being buckled. Then limit the acceleration. Then etc...
Big brother may know better, big brother may be watching, but if big brother starts to limits the ability to use the car, that'd lead to a lot of pissed off customers.�
Oct 21, 2015
ecarfan I would describe it differently.
Drivers voluntarily choose to use Autopilot and when they turn on the feature in the center display controls there is a clear message displayed about its limitations which they have to acknowledge, including the fact that they are responsible for driving the car and their hands should be on the wheel.
Then they have to engage it (once AP determines it has enough sensor information to operate) and be ready to take over if it alerts them. They do not "relinquish" control of the car. The human driver is responsible!
How many times does all this have to be pointed out...
Well stated. I agree.�
Oct 21, 2015
tinm This isn't the latest version of Angry Birds we're talking about. We're talking people's lives here. This is software that directly modifies the behavior of an automobile out on public thoroughfares.
If autopilot isn't safe, even in 1.0, it shouldn't be on the market until it is.�
Oct 21, 2015
Max* When used properly, do you have any evidence that AP isn't safe?�
Oct 21, 2015
zer0cool Don't understand why there's so much complaining... I am completely satisfied with AP. Use it for what it's designed to do for now, on highways only and it performs perfectly. I have used it for a few days and it's perfect. From after on-ramp to before off-ramp, all good, no issues whatsoever.
For people who complain about exit lanes on the right, please just keep your hands on the wheel on exits then... this is not meant to be autonomous driving yet, and that's CLEARLY communicated. It's really meant for helping to ease long distance highway travel and I think it does it perfectly. I would STRONGLY OPPOSE taking away this function because it fits my needs completely and without issue and because people refuse to follow clearly stated instructions.�
Oct 21, 2015
Vitold �
Oct 21, 2015
Max* So we agree then, you have no evidence.
To properly use the system, the following must be true (and it's obviously not true in the video):
A. Hands must be on the wheel
2. It's for highway driving only
III. The road must be divided
d. The driver must pay attention
Five. I'm sure I missed a few key points, but the above 4 are good enough.�
Oct 21, 2015
breser I'd say that video shows something very different than a lot of other people think it shows.
It shows a driver who is operating a camera with one hand while operating a car with AutoPilot engaged.
It shows a driver operating AutoPilot on a road that is not of the type that Tesla has specified as what AutoPilot should be operated on.
It shows a driver who ignores the fact that the car veers into the other lane once just before this, meaning the car is clearly having trouble making out where to drive. A situation that calls for additional caution.
It shows the car encountering a situation where it cannot make out the lines and immediately handing control back to the user.
It shows the driver not immediately taking control as soon as the beeping and the notice to take control came up. In fact they don't seem to react until the car starts veering. Which is a large part of the reason this video looks so bad.
The car does veer towards the other lane right about where it is right along side the oncoming car. The driver doesn't manage to take control till just slightly past this. So the video actually shows how quickly someone can react. Again this driver was distracted by operating a camera which also left him with only one hand to control the vehicle.
Despite the poor choices of the driver. The car was still able to give the user sufficient notice to take control before it was unaware of where the road was. In fact the beeps start around 1-2 car lengths before it catches up with the oncoming car where it veered into the other lane.
My guess from watching this video many times is that as it comes around the curve there is a glare situation that obstructs the camera's ability to see the lines. Since it'd just come around the curve it hadn't had time to see the lines before so it has no idea where the road is.
The only thing Tesla can mitigate is the fact that the user was operating AutoPilot on a road that they shouldn't have been. But I'm not even convinced of how easy they can do that. Geofencing the feature to specific road types would be very hard. It's very common for roads to run parallel and near to each other. Navigation systems routinely try to match up where you are to a road, but when the roads are parallel it gets it wrong sometimes. Creating situations where it disengages because it mistakenly believes the car is not on a highway is probably just as dangerous as the situation in that video.
If those situations occur just as often all such a solution would do is shift the dangerous situations from ones like the video where the user could have anticipated the problem due to the visibility issue. To ones where the user can't really predict because it's hard to tell if another road is close enough and sometimes the determination can flip from one road to another.
It's much easier to sit there and say what Tesla should do based on some anecdotal videos with no data to backup that certain actions would improve the safety of the system than it is to actually make the system safer.�
Oct 21, 2015
RAW84 And Tesla does limit the situations it can engage. You just don't agree that they've correctly identified and limited those situations.
Only time will tell whether they're stringent enough on a global level, but there's no point beating the same points into the ground.�
Oct 21, 2015
Max* I beat you to it!�
Oct 21, 2015
breser I see people keeping saying this. There is nothing in what Telsa has put up that says the road must be divided. Many highways are not divided. What Tesla actually says is:
�
Oct 21, 2015
wk057 Doh!
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to breser again.�
Oct 21, 2015
MrClown It does say it. When you enable Auto Steer under Driver Assistance, this window pops up:
�
Oct 21, 2015
Max* I was looking for where I read it, but MrClown beat me to it.
It clearly states it.�
Oct 21, 2015
breser Well it's not consistent about that then
�
Oct 21, 2015
ItsNotAboutTheMoney That encouraged me to give him rep his post deserved.
If the worst report Tesla's Autopilot gets is "Distracted Driver Able To React In Time", I think Tesla will be happy.�
Oct 21, 2015
Stoneymonster That's from the (real) beta? If so, doesn't really count as inconsistent if it was never widely released.�
Oct 21, 2015
Max* Is that your car?�
Oct 21, 2015
MrClown I took that pic just now on my car with 2.7.56 (the current 7.0 wide release). Is your pic from the same version?�
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