Aug 17, 2016
K-MTG Came across this video, hopefully we have some hope for a retrofit:�
Aug 17, 2016
aesculus I bought AP 1.0 as a toy and don't use it much at all. No loss for me except for the $$ out.
As far as the 100 kWh battery. Not enough of a change to make any substantive difference in my return trip commutes or long trips. Give me 140-150 kWh and then we can talk.�
Aug 17, 2016
ohmman It would take a lot more than some new sensors and 10kWh of extra battery to get me to trade up.
Removable 2nd row and regular people doors.. I'd trade tomorrow.�
Aug 17, 2016
ccutrer For just AP2.0 - 2, depending on price. $5k or less, immediately. $5k-10k, I'd have to think about it. More than that, just wait. For 100kWh battery, it depends on the question. If I suddenly found out that my 90kWh battery is actually a software locked 100kWh battery, I think I'd pay anywhere from $3k-6k to unlock it. If instead it's a battery swap, probably nothing - I would expect something like that to cost in excess of $10k.�
Aug 17, 2016
Saghost Interesting. The dual housing was hardly news, but this video does show the Xs (or at least his X) are prewired for something more - hopefully the same thing that Tesla is actually going to introduce sometime soonish.
The other thing that I thought was interesting is that he thinks the connectors for the cameras are coax. If the car used the same setup as early AP Ss do, the Mobileye Q3 would be attached to the back of the camera, and connected to car power there and to the CANBus for controlling the car. If the connection is in fact the coax he thinks it is, it suggests that the mobileye chip (or whatever else is in the same role?) is located somewhere else.
Very interesting, and the first concrete evidence I've seen that the X AP system is fundamentally different from the S. Kinda makes you wonder if the Q3 is still in the windshield enclosure on the Refresh Ss...
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Aug 17, 2016
psgabin very interesting what is your Vin number or production date for this model x because then every model x after that date should be similarly equipped also how difficult to move headliner and then fit back?�
Aug 17, 2016
K-MTG Not my video, just found it on YouTube�
Aug 17, 2016
systemcrashed This is better news for the retrofit hopefuls, harness seems to be present, dual coax plug going to dual coax cables upstream. Processing power may be sufficient in existing chipset for AP 2.0, if that is the case 2.0 update may just be to sensors/radar/camera/software. Retrofit in this case will require a new windshield as well. Still not holding my breath for a retrofit. Just proof that this Model X generation will be outfitted with AP 2.0 at some point and will use existing wiring harness.�
Aug 18, 2016
2virgule5 @ohmman so your opinion about the FWD did no change over time, mesmerized but then not convinced of their value?�
Aug 18, 2016
2virgule5 You forget the need for more processing power / MCU upgrade. If this "AP 2.0" includes the narrow AI Elon mentioned, along with the rumor of the nVidia Drive PX2 on board then there is no way it fits on the windshield like EyeQ3 today. Must be sitting elsewhere with a lot of power and cooling. Question for the new S owners would be if the similar harnesses are present i.e. post refresh.�
Aug 18, 2016
Saghost If the video is correct and those are coax cables, it seems unlikely that the X has the EyeQ3 on the windshield. Having the computer separated from the camera may or may not make the upgrade easier.�
Aug 18, 2016
Joel All Model Xs are wired this way.
The current Model X MCU is not located on the windshield. Thus swapping out the current MCU for an upgraded MCU is a function of labor (time) and hardware (does Tesla add multiple EyeQ3 chips or develop their own?). It is highly unlikely (basically impossible) for Tesla to use the nVidia Drive PX2 chip. nVidia chips are not compatible with the Mobile Eye System.�
Aug 18, 2016
aesculus Tesla Autopilot 2.0: retrofit to next gen sensors likely to be available for some owners�
Aug 18, 2016
krazineurons The article is referring to the same video above. I do not think it holds water given they earlier said it needs a triple camera in front, and the wiring and the housing electrek has discovered supports only an additional camera on top of existing one. So it seems more like an AP 1.5 Retrofit which i guess they would need for Firmware 8.0.�
Aug 18, 2016
vandacca The triple-camera solution doesn't necessarily need to be all in the rear view mirror unit. There is no reason why the third camera couldn't be located somewhere near the front bumper (this location would provide better visibility around corners).�
Aug 18, 2016
krazineurons The article's premise was that retro fit seems most likely given the new findings in the video, i am wondering how easy would it be to retrofit a camera from the front bumper? Or perhaps go the Volvo way, sticking a camera right inside their logo on the hood.�
Aug 18, 2016
dn3032 Here is a rumored update on the AP
Tesla Autopilot 2.0: retrofit to next gen sensors likely to be available for some owners�
Aug 18, 2016
systemcrashed Yes, this is the missing puzzle piece. what capabilities are coming with 2.0 and how much more processing power is needed. I was hoping for a plug and play solution which seems more plausible since they were forward thinking enough to prepare the wiring harness for future upgrades. Also, the dual camera windshield looks to have horizontal markers in the space where the second camera will fit, these markings are only on one side for the AP 1.0 windshields. So, I'm less optimistic about a retrofit, but who knows, the retrofit price may include a new windshield too, I know a lot of owners with ghosting issues may not mind that if the retrofit gives them ghost free glass.�
Aug 18, 2016
Colby Boles I agree with your assessment. My concern is that the sensor suite they deployed isn't adequate enough to do Level 2 well, as I was occasionally seeing "ghost vehicles" where there were none, so I turned the collision warning features off, and don't use the AP much unless I feel like being hyper-vigilant. It's possible that better filtering or integration of sensor and camera data can help fix these problems, but my gut is that there isn't adequate sensor information or camera processing power to tackle this admittedly hard problem. I'm eager to see what 8.0 brings in this respect.�
Aug 18, 2016
2virgule5 The "forward thinking" of cable and harnesses been there may have less to do with the possibility of a retrofit than to minimize disruption on the assembly line, ie as soon as the new hardware is here there is minimal time needed to adjust. They may have done this for the S when they stopped the line to accomodate for the facelift and increase Xs output. Dream still alive though�
Aug 18, 2016
2virgule5 Also we know MobileEye is out, so it's unlikely they'd be part of this. So they need more processing for image recognition etc.�
Aug 18, 2016
Saghost Even if that was their thinking, it means that one of the traditionally hardest and most expensive parts of a retrofit is taken care of for you - provided that the final hardware matches the current extra wiring.�
Aug 18, 2016
2virgule5 @Saghost Agree. Camera may be easy, other sensors we don't know, and MCU big question mark.�
Aug 18, 2016
ohmman My doors work better now than they did when I took delivery of the car, though it's going back in on Monday for the falling door issue (among other things). I didn't start off mesmerized really, I've just never been a fan. We're learning to work around the nuances of the doors but I still don't personally get much benefit, having kids that buckle themselves into the back seat and usually only kids riding in the 3rd row.�
Aug 18, 2016
2virgule5 @ohmman Doors working better after time spent in SC or through software update? Tesla just lend us one to try for a day today ; I can see the advantage with our little guy (he's 4) but yes for older kids not that much.�
Aug 18, 2016
ohmman A little of both. After this next SC visit, I hope they're working "as designed". That will remove the issues with the doors popping and twanging, and with them falling on their own.
The software update for indoor/outdoor mode and buffering overhead obstacles is helpful, as is the "always open fully in this location" setting. I reconfigured my garage doors with a jackshaft opener, and now the corner of the falcon wing clears my head. That's a big help.�
Aug 18, 2016
Colby Boles 4.
I feel like this is like trying to upgrade your PC these days. By the time you think about upgrading the parts, so much has changed that it just doesn't make sense from a cost / performance perspective. Of course the big difference is that your old PC has very little resale value whereas one would hope a $100k+ car has some left in it. I doubt that doing the upgrades would really boost your resale value that much though. Seems like you are probably better off selling it (or completing the lease) and getting the new best thing. Holding out as long as possible between purchases, of course.
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Aug 18, 2016
2virgule5 Well, ours was just confirmed early August so hopefully 1/ Nothing ;-)
That been said if it is announced right before it's delivered I'd certainly look at changing the order and paying the fee.
On a side note we have a loaner today - a 90D VIN 70xx. Had a quick look and the cables and harnesses are here like in the video.�
Aug 18, 2016
Stasla Coming from an Infiniti with the around view monitor feature (4 cams on all sides: rear hatch, grille, and bottom of each rear view mirror - all 4 images stitched together with the car icon in the middle, right on the screen) I have to say I sorely miss this in my X75D. Being able to see all around the car when parking, I used to efforlessly park in the tightest of parallel spots (NYC) with my gigantic qx56 and most importantly, I could always see how close I was to the curb - both front and rear wheels, which is simply impossible with just the front/rear sensors, even if the mirrors tilt down in reverse - always worried I'll mess up sidewalls and rims.
It would be a very welcome feature on the future Teslas for me. Was actually hoping they'd do it on the X from the get go, but no such luck..
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Aug 18, 2016
DoubleE That's why the car parks itself.�
Aug 18, 2016
ccutrer I honestly think this is this largest remaining feature gap that other brands do but Tesla doesn't.�
Aug 18, 2016
Stasla Yeah, that's been spotty for me - can't completely rely on autopark 100% of the time. A few things at play here:
1. Spot has to be between 2 cars for the prompt to trigger. If the empty spot for parallel parking is between a parked car and a hydrant - you're SOL it won't prompt for autopark. Similarly for perpendicular, has to be between 2 cars. I like to park at least 1 spot over from the nearest car so that the chances of getting a ding or a scratch on my beloved Tesla are minimized. Hence, most of the time for me engaging it in perpendicular spots it's useless, unless it's a real busy lot with very few spots. Even in those cases - see #2 below.
2. Car doesn't always see the spot - autopark prompting is spotty at best.
3. You have to completely pass the spot before it prompts, so if you are on a busy 1 way street with a sh!t ton of angry traffic behind you, no one will wanna wait for your autopark shenanigans - they will push up on you and you will have to keep driving forward, thereby loosing the spot. NYC driving/parking at its best!
4. Even perpendicular autopark leaves much to be desired - once every 15-20 times when I pull up to my driveway I'll get the prompt, and every time I engage autopark the car does a half assed attempt at trying to pull in. Most of the time it takes a couple of tries for it to steer into the driveway going back and forth a few times to adjust the approach angle. During this maneuvering it rolls out half way through the street and if there are cars coming up or down, I have to manually stop it, since my car does not see them and I don't wanna be clipped. The best, most fun part is when it says it's done - the car is sitting diagonally, half way into the driveway with the front well on the sidewalk, even a foot or so past it into the street.
TL;DR: Autopark is great, but not 100% consistent. Car has to learn and will certainly get better over time, plus software updates down the line should keep improving it, but as of now it can't be relied on 100% of the time. Still wishing for a 4-way cam system. Nifty party trick though - when autopark works, people are surely impressed!�
Aug 18, 2016
ccutrer 5. In order to "see" the spot, you have to be near that side. Which gives you a suboptimal angle in the first place for perpendicular.
6. It's about 10x slower than confidently parking yourself.
Basically, I use it as a party trick or the rare occasion that it's a VERY tight spot, and there isn't a lot of other traffic to frustrate while it's taking its sweet time.�
Aug 19, 2016
krazineurons I would love a HUD on my X. Driving a civic right now and test driven the BMW X5, driving both S and X, i constantly felt the need to see the information at my eye level, be it the speed or the navigation directions (civic doesn't show directions).
On the Tesla, looking down behind the steering column every time for any piece of information felt awkward and not industry defying�
Sep 7, 2016
Ingineer The Nvidia Tegra 3 located in the MCU is not used for any AP processing. The only role it has is serving the data tiles to augment AP's function. It's non-critical. You can test this yourself by rebooting it while AP is driving. The car keeps right on going, with no problem.
On the X, the Mobileye EyeQ3 processor is located in the dash behind the glovebox. This module is called the DAS ECU. (Driver Assistance ECU) They wanted to reduce the big glob of plastic in the middle of the X's amazing panoramic windshield, so they get the processor out of there. The camera does indeed connect to the DAS ECU by a co-ax cable.
I do not think Tesla will offer a retrofit. They seem to want you to trade in your current car and upgrade, so they keep coming up with carrots as inducement. I doubt they will change this M.O., but I suppose anything is possible.
The Tegra 3 used in the MCU in both the S and X is on a daughterboard. They could easily upgrade this and offer retrofits to existing owners, but again, I doubt they will.
Especially right now, the bulk of Tesla's engineering effort is directed toward the Model 3, not coming up with more ways to burden the already overloaded service center network.�
Sep 8, 2016
aesculus Normally I would agree but with all the attention and negative press about AP 1.0, I wonder if they would not go out of their way to retrofit older cars. It could be a liability if they did not, especially if AP 2.0 is significantly safer and eliminates some safety issues that were inherent in AP 1.0.
Also when people get a Beta of something, the expectation is that there will be a gold version available to replace it. I know that beta sw is not the same thing as a fully hw/sw solution like AP, but Tesla is the one that went there with this term.�
Sep 8, 2016
vandacca The issue is that when AP 2.0 rolls out, I don't think it's the sensors that are going to be the limiting factor. Initially both AP 1.0 and 2.0 hardware will behave the same, and probably will do so for over a year. Perhaps a year after AP 2.0 rolls out, the software may catch up and begin to offer additional features that AP 1.0 vehicles won't be able to take advantage of.
Therefore, Tesla may decide to down-play the hardware upgrades or even keep them quiet for some time.�
Sep 8, 2016
djsinc This was one of the primary reasons for our choosing a lease over a purchase (the second was tax purposes). After 6 months of ownership there are already advances in battery and AP tech which I would consider as substantial improvements in the car.
Don't get me wrong, I still love my X, and it will still be a great car when our lease is up. But I am also excited to see what the next 30 months will bring in cool new features that will all be rolled into our next one.�
Sep 8, 2016
aesculus AP yes, battery not so much for me. It would take a 140-150 kWh battery to make me salivate.�
Sep 8, 2016
travwill This board is so interesting to read at times. Overall, AP2, battery improvements, etc are all just incremental at this point. The MS/MX are already about 95%+ of what everyone needs. New battery tech, +10kWh more, +20, etc only add like 20 miles here, 30-40 miles. Range that you only need about 1% of the time IMHO. AP1.0 does a great job already and is more than most people need, if you actually enjoy driving. AP2.0 won't do some new blowout functionality likely, reliably just yet.
I think the MS/MX we have now is a great build, for this time period of now through about 5-7 years perhaps. At that point I'd maybe expect enough advancements to be made in autonomy, regulations, to have the cars do something we may really need - i.e. driverless completely, or so. For now, they are great/comfy/fun cars to actually drive - battery takes us just about anywhere, and AP's does well when want to use.
Seems like the S & X models are resembling iPhones lately - nothing TOO revolutionary for a few years gap.�
Sep 8, 2016
Ingineer Let's at least make it fun and place some bets! I bet no official upgrade offered to take AP in S and X to the tri-camera multi-radar system. Just too much hardware.�
Sep 8, 2016
GoTslaGo Prediction Thread - "You Called It"
There's a link inside to an "official" prediction spreadsheet that will make it easier to keep track of the predictions.
Hat eating is a possible consequence (although by history, not taken up...)�
Sep 8, 2016
Ingineer Funny! I hadn't seen that spreadsheet.�
Sep 8, 2016
GoTslaGo Yes I think most people posting on the thread do not know there is a spreadsheet anymore. Just kind of got lost. That's why I tried to link to the original post which has the spreadsheet link.�
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