Apr 19, 2013
FlasherZ There's already a thread for that where Tesla was threatened. I, too, prefer to see that religious crusade over in that thread.�
Apr 19, 2013
NigelM AO is correct plus the poster about 4 back was replying to a question that's 4 months old. I'm sure everyone can manage to ignore one post if they don't like it.....�
Apr 22, 2013
TampaLiam
You could ask your service center to tell you the mobile number.
I have gathered that data from my car and plan on adding it to my microcell ASAP to see if the signal at home improves.�
Apr 22, 2013
martinve Totally agree on this one. However it's like the Xbox360 and the 'adjustments' people make to play backups.
It's a matter of time before someone find the backdoor and opens it, revealing all the stuff that's running behind closed doors.
Lets just hope Tesla doesn't go Microsoft way and voids the Warranty when accessing these informations.�
Apr 22, 2013
vfx I would imagine they would. In a car there is a definite consequence to a "crash".�
Apr 22, 2013
AnOutsider Wouldn't that be an insurance issue and not a warranty issue?�
Apr 22, 2013
lolachampcar The issue for me, and I hope for Tesla in the future, is Right to Repair. I believe there is already one state that has put into law the obligation of the manufacturer to provide sufficient information to allow independent service shops and owners to service their vehicles. So, if someone from Mass (at least I think its Massachutets) wants to push the point we may all get access to at least the service side of things.
What I hope Tesla does not do is take the normal tech company approach of you should be happy we let you use our stuff and do not ask questions (I'm thinking Apple here). Tesla has valid concerns and these need to be addressed but I own this car and I want to be able to work on it.
Before anyone here thinks I am being unreasonable, I have the full 8 year on site service plan in place. I also made changes to the rear suspension and need to verify and may even need to calibrate the ride height. For MB air suspension I would normally grab Star Diagnostics and run through the ride height calibration routine. Tesla does not have a separate application for this and will not provide me with access or documentation to do it myself. However, in typical Tesla fashion they asked me to bring it in and I could work with them to check and calibrate the ride height if needed (as part of my service plan even though Tesla is not responsible for the need for this service). I could not ask for more in the way of a supportive company to deal with but sooner or later the issue of access will have to be addressed and addressed in the owner's favor. It's just a question of if Tesla chooses to get out in front of this or is pulled into it kicking and screaming
�
Apr 22, 2013
J in MN I completely agree with you.
As I've said before, I own the factory diagnostic tools and repair manuals for all the cars I own (and owned). That gives me full read and write access to all the computers in the car, and all the information needed for diagnostics and repair.
If Tesla does not want to sell the car to us, then I wish they would just come out and admit it. Then they can go further and build a proper service offering around it, something like a "Model S as a service" subscription. You pay, oh let's say $1300 per month for a loaded P85, and they take on the risk of ownership and take care of everything. If it breaks down, or needs service, or new tyres, or if the battery capacity deteriorates below some percentage (70%?), they come to your house or work and switch it out for another one. After 8 years, they come and switch it out for a new one, with all the latest hardware features and brand new battery. If you don't like the car after 3 months, you cancel your subscription, and they come pick up the car.
I would actually be very interested in an offering like this. But their current "you pay the full price up-front and take all the ownership risk, but you are not allowed to service or repair it, or know how it works" does not sit well with me.�
Apr 22, 2013
MrOteece So if I have my car's cell phone number, does it really do me any good?�
Apr 24, 2013
NigelM Mod Notes:
1) Posts speculating announcements about ACC went here - What-is-Tesla-s-upcoming-third-major-announcement
2) The tangential discussion on leasing models went here - Leasing-Option-News
There's a few other bits and pieces that I left here to avoid moving one or two posts at a time, let's at least try and keep discussions in the relevant threads please.�
May 4, 2013
jbmoney13 Service Menu Screen Shots
I thought some of you may be interested in seeing whats behind the secret "Access Code". I searched the forums for anyone that may have already posted on this. I found some of the options/items in the service menu extremely interesting. Adaptive Cruise Control....Blind Spot Detection....Lane Departure Warning... Any thoughts?
�
May 4, 2013
Discoducky Wow, as an owner I'm really happy to see these features light up some day. But TM will most likely not be happy to see this posted.�
May 4, 2013
ModelS8794 I recall GeorgeB specifically requesting pics like this be taken down from this public forum, the last time someone posted these.�
May 4, 2013
joefee You may have found the �under your nose� surprise announcement!�
May 4, 2013
60TTuC Please Enter Access Code - Page 3
Hi everyone,
I know I do not have the right to post this, but I will anyway.
The screens behind this password are behind a password for a reason. These diagnostic screens contain information that is not meant to be public. These screens are accessible in the car to help our technicians help our customers. They contain information about the car and its systems.
I won't go into all the reasons why I would prefer these screens not be posted here, or anywhere else for that matter, but if anyone reading this owns or works at a business that has information that is not meant for public display, then they will understand my request. If you work at a company with a client list, you would prefer that your client list not be published on the web. If you use any type of proprietary software or hardware, you would prefer not to have the code published on the web. If you have a new technology that you are fighting very hard to bring to market, you'd prefer that all the workings behind your new technology not be published on the web.
I could go on and on, but I will not. I will simply say that what is behind this password is not meant for public display. It is there to allow us to help our customers as quickly and efficiently as possible, and I would respectfully ask that the screens and content of the screens not be posted openly anywhere.
Thanks for your consideration.
GeorgeB�
May 4, 2013
vcor There was some conjecture in the past, with others seeing the service menus, that the software is from a third-party that is used by other manufacturers, and the options are just generic for all the cars they support. That would explain the various features that are not available.
I doubt that's the case. No other car is quite like the MS, and it would seem more natural that this is all Tesla's software as many of these features and options are unique to Tesla (i.e. who else has the wheel color and size as a configurable option)!
There appear many other tabs, apps and sections. Too bad we don't have photos for them too.
Oddly the parking assist (to be available in Europe) isn't on the list.�
May 4, 2013
jbmoney13 No harm intended. If TMC wants to take the information down, I am perfectly fine with it.�
May 4, 2013
Discoducky Or you could. GB has already requested such.�
May 4, 2013
jbmoney13 I'll leave it up to the TMC community and administrators to decide. Let's keep in mind that these menu items are not breathtaking innovations. No secrets here. If anything, a vehicle at this price point and a resale value greater than a Lexus, Audi, BMW, and/or Mercedes should have these type of features. These shots were selective, other images have purposely not been shared. Rules for this forum have been followed.
Thanks�
May 4, 2013
Gator Take it down.�
May 6, 2013
lolachampcar It is called "Right to Repair" and there is both state and federal legislation floating about to force manufacturers to document their product and allow owners/service personnel access to this information. Hopefully other states will follow Mass' lead and bring about these changes. I've seen FAR MORE information in MB Star Diagnostics and making these tools available to the world simply makes MB a better company.
...... and for those of you that think that provisions for things like adaptive cruse control, park distance control and the like are some super secret competitive advantage I've got to call bull. All this stuff exists and any manufacturer worth its salt (and I think we all agree Tesla is) would make allowances for all this technology and more.�
May 6, 2013
Majerus Ill just throw my opinion out there, its not like we are leaking source code to the diagnostics software. That being said George asked for images to be taken down, because of this I think it would be the right thing to do. Great looking diagnostics though, really impressed.�
May 6, 2013
lolachampcar George used to work for Apple.....�
May 6, 2013
bonnie I'm going to hazard a wild guess here and say that George probably had nothing to do with the design of the diagnostics screens. I think he's been kind of busy opening stores and such. Just a guess, of course. I could be wrong. Maybe he moonlights as a UI designer.
�
May 6, 2013
qwk I think he means the secrecy and threat part.�
May 6, 2013
NigelM +1.�
May 6, 2013
gg_got_a_tesla Despite what GeorgeB said, I'm in favor of keeping these up here. It's in the true spirit and openness of these forums which is why I don't bother going to the official ones anymore.�
May 6, 2013
bonnie I think that when the original request was made, things were a lot less stable. Model S deliveries were just beginning, nerves were raw, people were not so understanding. Now with some history behind us, the forum doesn't seem to erupt quite so easily with wild rumors.
I'm neutral on whether to pull or post. I don't think it matters all that much anymore. New features have been rolling out on a regular basis, we don't see the posts saying 'if they don't do [this], it's a deal breaker'.
We're almost drama-free. What's up with that??�
May 6, 2013
FlasherZ No, the deal-breakers are still here, just in different words because the people who figured they were deal-breakers apparently worked their way around them.
Now, that said, the mods not pulling that information is a deal-breaker.
�
May 6, 2013
Majerus Have you seen the investor discussions.. nothing but drama�
May 6, 2013
gg_got_a_tesla �
May 6, 2013
Discoducky As an investor I'll take that kind of drama right now :wink:
But back to the matter at hand. Why not just ask GB? I'm excited about the possibility of the options coming. And with everything being equal, at the moment, TM is knocking it out of the park so if this hits the press it should just be more 'good news'.
Also, if I wasn't in favor of this I might not have a kick a$$ Windows Phone app that beats the pants off of the Android app! Tesla Connect rocks! Tesla Connect | Windows Phone Apps+Games Store (United States)�
May 6, 2013
AnOutsider Gotta love the 1 star review:
You tarnish a developer's rep over your own stupidity? "Lol!" Indeed.�
May 7, 2013
Robert.Boston At the risk of straying OT, the MA Right to Repair law won't affect Tesla. The law requires that an OEM provide (at a reasonable price) the same level of information and access to diagnostic gear that it provides its franchised dealers. Tesla has no franchised dealers, of course. I have a longer post on the particulars over HERE.�
May 7, 2013
Majerus Well even if George wanted this forum not to show pictures of the "hidden menu" looks like the info is now on youtube, and has a post on autoblog...
Tesla Model S has secret menu that shows possible upcoming features
�
May 7, 2013
FlasherZ What's funny about that video is that he starts the video as if he is going to enter the password and show it to us live, then he transitions to the static images that were originally posted in this very thread. What a shame.�
May 7, 2013
Benz Secret menu that shows possible upcoming features for the Tesla Model S. Seen before?
http://www.autoblog.com/2013/05/07/tesla-model-s-secret-menu-shows-possible-upcoming-features/?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed�
May 7, 2013
Majerus
I was thinking he was going to show the code as well, a bit of a let down I suppose.�
May 7, 2013
doug Which means they guy didn't actually discover anything. He probably just lifted it from us.
The post with the images was in moderation while we considered member requests to have them removed. Seeing how the images are now more widely public, the issue is moot, and the post is out of moderation.�
May 7, 2013
FlasherZ That was my assumption too.�
May 7, 2013
lolachampcar Robert.Boston
Right you are. I'm interested in the effort that is starting to gain some traction. That effort is designed to provide access to repair information.
For me, the same logic that says dealers do not have standing to stop Tesla from selling product applies equally to Tesla's responsibility to provide access even though they do not have franchised dealers. It would seem unfair to ask for relief in one case and protection in the next.
Ideally, Tesla would get out in front of this and provide access while protecting the proprietary elements that should be protected. My fear is that there are soooooo many other things on Tesla's plate that this issue will not make the conversation.�
May 7, 2013
markwj Your picture was just 'lifted' by Engadget:
Bloomberg: Tesla's Elon Musk discussing self-driving car partnership with Google
(Or, more accurately, a lift of a youtube lift)�
May 7, 2013
PattyChuck I was just excited to see he has my weather app open on his web browser! It gets me all smiles to see people actually using it in the real world!!�
Oct 14, 2013
Newscutter Sorry to try and revive a "dead thread".
YouTube put the video in question in a "recommended" queue for me and after watching it I searched the forum.
Looks like the features on this hidden menu have been discussed BEFORE the parking sensors were added as an option.
Bottom Line: Given that MS are now being built with those parking sensors installed and my limited knowledge of the sensor technology itself, how likely is it that the sensors CURRENTLY being installed could also be software-enabled to serve the additional functions of "Adaptive cruise control, Blind spot sensor, and Lane departure warning"?
�
Oct 14, 2013
lolachampcar most ACC and collision avoidance braking systems use a type of short range radar to determine what is in front of the car and how far away it is. The PDC sensors do not fill this need and thus ACC will require additional sensors.�
Oct 15, 2013
rdrcrmatt I was thinking it wouldn't be all that hard to set something up with an arduino.. I was going to do it on my jetta TDI but I think the MS would be easier and more fun. Plus having the regen braking would make things even easier since applying the friction brakes would be a bit of a chore.
Back on topic, does this menu system still exist? Any hints on where to search for finding the access codes?�
Oct 15, 2013
zax123 Even the service centers don't have access to these access codes anymore, so I think it would be VERY difficult to find...�
Oct 15, 2013
widodh Not completely true I guess.
When picking up my Model S in Tilburg they showed me the service menu (asked me to look the other way when accessing the code).
He told me that it's now also GPS restricted, so it will only work in certain "boxes" on this planet. So even if we have the code, you'd have to drive to the service center and play with it there.�
Oct 15, 2013
zax123 Oops, I guess this is an evolving security protocol.
Tesla should just release an SDK so we can start to play with some of this while still being sanctioned by them.�
Oct 15, 2013
apacheguy What's so sensitive about the info on the diagnostic screens? From what I gather it basically allows you to change certain settings (ie car color, pano roof, etc.) and view real time data (battery schematic, TPMS, drive train components). Frankly, I don't see the harm in letting owners access any of this info. There is no way the battery schematic is proprietary - it just shows coolant flows. Plus, if another manufacturer really wanted to, they could just buy a Tesla and reverse engineer the battery pack. But that's why Tesla has patents. Why is Tesla so adamant about protecting access to these screens? Just curious.�
Oct 15, 2013
qwk You can mess with certain settings, disable stability control for example. I can totally see why Tesla doesn't let owners in while the car is under warranty, but once the warranty expires, I can't see how they could keep you out.�
Oct 15, 2013
AmpedRealtor If the hidden service menu allows you to modify the stability control settings as well as any speed limiters, then Tesla is justified in keeping this menu hidden and buried. Someone could kill themselves or seriously compromise their safety by changing some of these settings.�
Oct 15, 2013
Newscutter So even the restrictions on this car twinkle with a touch of evil genius. I LOVE IT! :biggrin:�
Oct 15, 2013
rdrcrmatt I got a chance to talk with a veteran (2.5 years) tesla technician today.... He brought my car to my office and I gave him a ride back. I asked him about the service menu and he said they (the service centers) no longer know the access code. He said they changed the code a few times but after 5 or 6 codes they stopped giving it to the service center techs. It is just for engineering now.
Kinda a bummer, it's not likely we'll get it, and if we do it is likely that they could change it on a moments notice.�
Oct 16, 2013
lolachampcar What I really want is a safe for owners version of the PC diag software that hooks up to that Enet connection on the left side of the dash.�
Oct 16, 2013
rdrcrmatt have you plugged into that connection and tried to get any info? What type of connector is it?�
Oct 16, 2013
Gizmotoy To be fair, most manufacturers put a button to fully disable stability control right on the dashboard, so the ability to turn it off isn't exactly going to cause people to kill themselves in it otherwise I'd be dead long ago.
Curious about this also.
�
Oct 16, 2013
lolachampcar I'll pay more attention to the actual hardwire connection next time. I just remember it was Cat5 from the laptop to a simple connector in the car. You can pull the left side dash panel off (the one showing when you open the driver's door) and take a lookiesee if you're in a hurry.�
Oct 16, 2013
hans It will likely be a coax cable with an amphenol connector. Most automotive ethernet is that way.�
Oct 16, 2013
araxara Yes, this is a M12 industrial ethernet connector.�
Oct 16, 2013
islandbayy Thats interesting, as someone else we know locally had door handles replaced a few weeks ago, and while doing so, they had the diag screen up on the console. He took a few pictures of it for me (no code, but just some screen shots and some video). And it was done at his home here in Milwaukee County. So ???? GPS Restricted and not being given out any longer, might be the excuse to get people to stop asking. I personally, just want access to see the battery management system, as in, see what cells are balanced and which are not. and also the power flow screen to see where the juice is going.�
Oct 16, 2013
rdrcrmatt Perhaps the rangers do still have access.. This was a tech at the Villa Park service center. Nice guy, I didn't get the feeling he was lying about access.�
Oct 16, 2013
apacheguy Good point. It's probably not the smartest idea anyway to disable such a critical safety feature, but even if someone did, there is no way Tesla would be held accountable (and you bet they'd have the vehicle logs to prove it).
So no, I don't see the possibility of someone disabling stability control as a legitimate reason to keep these screens private.�
Oct 17, 2013
JRP3 You won't see individual cells, cells in parallel behave as one and self balance. If one or more in a parallel group go bad you'd see a reduction in the total amp hour capacity of that group.�
Oct 17, 2013
zax123 I would like to see the pressure on individual tires. That would be awesome.
The ability to reprogram TPMS sensors would also be useful since the Tesla SCs don't necessary want to install "aftermarket" tires anymore...
- - - Updated - - -
Has anyone gotten their hands on an M12->RJ45 adapter and tried to login to the VCM? I'm assuming you'd need to know the right IP address and would maybe need a cross-over cable. I'm wondering if you just get a linux prompt if you manage to figure out the IP.�
Oct 17, 2013
Fuzzylogic The TPMS sensors are programmed through the connector behind the "cubby", I have seen a ranger do it on my car.�
Oct 17, 2013
Gizmotoy Yup, that's exactly what I was getting at. There may be dozens of other reasons why they need to be private, I don't know, but turning off stability systems isn't one of them.
Indeed, the factory ECU on my Evo can be completely reprogrammed. New fuel maps, timing, turbo PSI levels, turn signal behavior and more can be edited with nothing more than a $100 OBD-II to USB adaptor and a laptop. Mitsubishi's not getting sued when things go wrong. Tesla won't, either, and if they do they can prove you were at fault.
I think we'll eventually see them parse some of this stuff out into userland touting them as new features as the car matures.�
Oct 17, 2013
lolachampcar Having done a fair amount of work in the ECU reprogramming world I can assure you that 99.99% of all the info out in the world was stolen from the manufacturer or reversed engineered by decompiling the ECU's ROM contents. I have never seen nor heard of a manufacturer willingly allowing anything in the public domain so I would not think we will see if from Tesla.�
Oct 17, 2013
Gizmotoy Right. Didn't mean to imply it was factory-supported. I was more thinking towards the fact that eventually someone's probably going to figure out how to get us in there.�
Nov 20, 2013
yobigd20 wanna see the latest and greatest stuff behind that access code? It's really changed a lot. There is now a "grasshopper" mode, whatever that means! Tesla Service - Imgur
(fyi not my photos, link was posted in another thread).�
Nov 20, 2013
birdsaresmarter maybe just there to mess with minds of overly curious customers
http://www.spacex.com/news/2013/10/16/grasshopper-completes-half-mile-flight-last-test�
Nov 20, 2013
woof Grasshopper mode is when the car lights it's main thrusters to try to jump over road debris. Not quite working at the moment--the thrusters tend to light a bit late in the process, but Musk & Co. say they know what the problem is and it'll work the next time.�
Nov 20, 2013
birdsaresmarter X-ACTLY�
Nov 20, 2013
uselesslogin Also lots of other features which look legit but my original thread where I posted the image is gone presumably because this thread exists and also the image itself is gone from the original poster. However someone else put the image here:
http://i.imgur.com/U0a8wjOh.jpg
Anyway it has the basic features which Tesla is missing like blind spot detection, lane departure warning, and adaptive cruise control.�
Sep 15, 2014
tliving Old thread but I never saw this video linked in it:
Tesla Model S Hidden Menus - YouTube�
Sep 15, 2014
JST Huh. Very interesting.�
Sep 15, 2014
apacheguy Tesla needs to expose some of this diagnostic info to the driver. Things like tire pressure and BMS info should be available via an advanced menu. Roadster owners have had access to this info all along. Makes sense that the MS ought to be on par.�
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