May 13, 2015
>NetZero Hi everyone.
Just wanted to start a discussion with folks about how Tesla has changed their policy on their Ranger Service. I know that this service probably does not impact the majority of owners out there but it is an important issue to those of us who bought a car and live far away from any Tesla service centre.
"For those who do not what to read the whole story below": We are dissatisfied and disappointed that Tesla is no longer offering $100 Tesla Ranger visits no matter where you live even though we were told by Tesla before buying the car that we would always have that option.
I know there are others in the same boat as us but I will give our background.
About a year ago we were looking to buy a model s. We live in St. John's, NL Canada so we flew up to Toronto to test drive and fell in love with the car. A few months later we had worked everything out to purchase one and there was only one question left relating to servicing the vehicle. We had heard that the Tesla ranger service was going to be $100 per visit. Even back then we knew this was a crazy thing for Tesla to offer as they would be loosing a lot of money overtime as the fleet increased in size. Perhaps back then we believed that there was such a small number of people living so far away that the lose would not be that great to Tesla and maybe they could sustain it. At least for the next several years or until the Model 3 comes out.
During our correspondence with the Tesla rep in Toronto where we decided to purchase the car from we had many emails back and fourth about this details of the Tesla Ranger service. I have severals emails from Tesla stating that all issues relating to warranty work will be fixed through the ranger service and it would be $100 per visit. I asked them why there is nothing written in any documentation about the Ranger service and how can I be guaranteed the Ranger service would remain $100 per visit for the duration of the warranty. They respond again saying they have contacted Tesla service in California to get clarification on the issue. I even asked them about what happens if the car is not able to be fixed through a ranger visit. Again they came back, and told me in black and white, that should any work be needed to be done at a service centre Tesla would ship the car to the nearest centre (Montreal - over 2000 kms away) and that THEY would cover the cost. We found it hard to believe they would do this but again, they told us it would happen and I guessed we convinced ourselves that because we are such a small number of people in our situation Tesla could just eat the cost. Anyways, we told Tesla that "THE TESLA RANGER SERVICE" is the reason we are able to justify purchasing the car being so far away from a service centre. They assured us we would not have a problem. Car was purchased and delivered 3 months later.
Received the car in perfect condition with no issues. Absolute joy to drive and couldn't be happier. After about 3 weeks we noticed continuous build up of moisture in the reverse lights after washing or heavy rain. It was not a huge issue to us so we just left it. Another 2 weeks go by and we started having problems with the driver side wiper causing streaks across the window. This was more of a pain so we decided to reach out to Tesla to tell them about the wiper blade and the moisture problem. We did not tell them to come to fix anything, just notified them of the issues. They replied back that they were sending a replacement wiper blade as well as a replacement part for the reverse head lights and that a Tesla Ranger would be coming to replace the part. We didn't ask them to come fix the moisture problem and we would just wait until we drive up to Montreal next year for our annual service but said oh well at least we'll see how the ranger service works out.
The Tesla ranger arrived a few weeks later after doing some other jobs in the Maritime provinces. The guy was super friendly, took the car to a local a garage, replaced the reverse tail light part and brought the car back within about 5 hours. We expected to get some paper work describing what was completed but did not receive anything until we asked the Service centre about it. They send us a report outlining what they did which included several other minor things they fixed without telling us. Also that there was ZERO cost to us for anything! Not even a $100 charge for the ranger visit. We thought this was strange and inconsistent with what we were told but was not going to complain about something that was free.
Fast forward about 6 months we had zero issues with the car! Awesome! Even through a harsh Newfoundland winter we had essentially zero issues.
Then last week, out of nowhere, the passenger side door handle would not open the door. It would present but not open the door when pulled on. The inside latch was still abel to open the door. We called Tesla right away and told them the situation and they said they would look into it. Over the next couple of days the handle would randomly start working again and then stop working. As of right now it hasn't worked at all for 5 days. Unfortunately this was not just a minor issue where we could wait until July when we go for a annual service in Montreal so we required a Tesl ranger visit.
Tesla (Montreal Service Centre) replied saying no problem to fix the door handle and that a ranger could be there as early as two weeks. Only thing is that we will be charged $800 to cover the cost of his transportation! Could not believe what we were hearing! This is exactly the same thing we were told WOULD NOT HAPPEN. We replied back that with copies of emails showing our correspondence with Tesla about the $100 fee. We did not hear anything for four days! Just let hanging there without any word of what was going to happen. Finally they replied saying they would come to fix the door handle and the Ranger service for this one time and one time only would be $100. Thanks for cutting us some slack but what about going forward! Believe it or not another Tesla here in the province had an issue with a pano roof clip breaking. They called Montreal service centre and was told the same thing - $800 for a Tesla ranger to come fix a sun roof clip are you kidding me!
Also one more thing on the Montreal service centre. We had a small accident and scratched some paint off the rear bumper. We brought it to a highly regarded body shop near by and they said no problem we will take care of it. Got the car back two days later and you could never tell what happened. What was interesting though is the body shop manager called the Tesla service centre in Montreal before starting any work on the car. He simply ask if he broke any clips or needed some replacement parts could they buy the parts and have them shipped to Newfoundland. I heard it second hand from the body shop manager but he said Tesla Montreal service centre's reply was "Absolutely not would they send any parts to a non-Tesla authorized body shop! All work on Telsa's must be done here at the service centre or a body shop that we tell them they can use." What is up with the Montreal service centre! They are just not very accommodating at all!
Anyways we have been discussing what is going to happen going forward. How can this be made right. We understand from both sides. Tesla would be loosing money on all these long ranger trips and can not sustain something like this. The issue is that before we purchased the car we were promised we would always have the $100 ranger service. Its not cool to go back on your word. A change of policy is fine to all new customers as long as they are made aware of the situation before purchasing. However, for those few people (I would guess that there is probably less than a couple of hundred of us who are far away from service centres and purchased the car before the policy was changed) who were promised this service before they bought the car and before the policy was changed, Tesla's commitment should be honoured.
I would love to hear folks from TMC on this issue. What do you think is fair? Have you had an experience like this? What would you do if you were in our position? Thoughts on the Montreal Service centre? Would we have better luck with the Toronto service centre? Possible options for Tesla? Any thoughts on Tesla authorizing repair shops to fix their cars? Hard to think about how Tesla can service hundreds of thousands of vehicles in a few years with limited service centres and authorizing a repair shop would be a lot easier than building their own if every major city in the world.
It's sad to say but 8 months had passed since we purchased our car and not a single day went by that we regretted the purchase... until this day. Huge supporter of Tesla and every day we are trying to sell their cars to friends, family, random people we meet coming up to us. Service is the number one question we get asked about and before now we always had a response. Now we can honestly not recommend buying a Tesla here in NL or anywhere not near a service centre.
�
May 13, 2015
neroden Tesla has a record of this particular sort of shady behavior. Unfortunately, if you don't have it in writing, they're free to promise all kinds of things and then renege, just like your typical car dealer.
Although you *do* have it in writing and they're *still* trying to renege. This problem probably needs to go up the corporate ladder; they should at least give you what they promised.
I purchased the "unlimited" free Ranger service specifically because they can't back out on that; they have to provide the Ranger service for free for eight years, which is what I paid for in advance. And they have indeed been providing that service. In general, for those of us who bought the "service plans", there were specific promises made about the availability of Ranger service at a particular price.
However, if you haven't already paid in advance, Tesla is pretty much able to change its available service options on you without warning, up to and including eliminating all service. Which is a serious risk, and one I considered before buying the car. I really do hope someone hacks the car and figures out how to repair & replace everything (including the software), given Tesla's behavior.
Tesla is not selling the unlimited Ranger service option to new customers, either. This means I can't rationally buy another Tesla.
I've actually started telling people not to buy Teslas if they live more than ~100 miles from a service center. Tesla apparently doesn't want us as customers. I strongly recommend to people living in Ithaca that they should not buy Teslas until Tesla opens a service center in this area, or restores the previous cheap Ranger service.
Beyond that, the refusal to provide parts to third party body shops is just pointless hostility to customers, particularly those who live significant distances from a service center. Tesla's developing a reputation for this sort of stuff. It's not a good reputation.
Apparently the Tesla Board doesn't care about the bad reputation Tesla's developing for crap like this. The car is so far ahead of the competition that developing a corporate record of this sort of behavior just isn't hurting business significantly.
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Escalate to California HQ, preferably with a group of Newfoundland owners and possibly owners in other remote areas who all have the same problem. Make it clear that you have been promoting Tesla but that this is the sort of corporate behavior which would cause you to discourage anyone from buying the car, and tell them that you hope that the Montreal Service Center behavior is not corporate policy.
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What Tesla *ought to do* (but probably won't)
(1) Honor their Ranger Service commitment made to prior customers.
(2) For future customers, offer unlimited ranger service at a reasonable price to customers located more than 100 miles from a service center.
(3) Sell parts, on request, directly to customers who are located more than 100 miles from a service center.
(4) Publish their service manuals.
There is good reason for Tesla to use direct sales. There is no good reason for Tesla to attempt to monopolize service & repairs, however. *Tesla isn't even trying to make a profit on service*.�
May 13, 2015
Doug_G Yes, they absolutely should live up to their promises. Reach out to Eli Edwards in Toronto, he's the service manager for Canada. Express your dissatisfaction. I can't guarantee that Tesla will respond in a favorable fashion, but I'll be pretty disappointed in them if they don't.
FWIW it used to be a charge per distance traveled. The $100 policy was a huge step, which no doubt has gained them many sales. Going back on that will have the opposite effect.�
May 13, 2015
Shortmanz I agree with you that Tesla should honor the promises they made to you.
Btw, Tesla has published the Model S service manuals. They are only available online and require a subscription to access.
Link to the service manual subscription page:
Welcome | Tesla Service
Forum thread discussing them:
Service Manual Subscriptions�
May 13, 2015
stopcrazypp It would appear to be the same situation in this thread, except you got written confirmation (while the other didn't):
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/35752-Owning-a-Tesla-in-a-remote-small-town-practicality-of-service-issues
In the Roadster days, $100 was the *minimum* charge, and then $1 per a roundtrip mile after that:
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/coming-your-neighborhood-tesla-mobile-service-rangers-make-house-calls
In 2012 they changed it:
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/transforming-automotive-service
It still says that in the FAQ page (which is likely outdated as there is no link to it anymore from the main pages; the page appears to only be reachable by Google or a direct link):
http://my.teslamotors.com/service/faq
And it did in the 2013 version of the service plans:
https://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/blog_attachments/na_tesla_service_plan_agreement_ca.pdf
The new page (which is what shows when clicking through links) says:
http://www.teslamotors.com/support/service-plans
So it seems this is a recent policy change. I imagine it is because ultimately $100 ranger visits regardless of distance is unsustainable in the long run.�
May 13, 2015
ChadS Changing the terms for new customers is perfectly fair. But ABSOLUTELY they should live up to what you were promised when you bought the car!
I imagine they will, though as neroden suggested you will apparently have to go up the ladder to get them to do the right thing. It is unfortunate that they often make the customer push like this.
Let us know how it turns out. If they really make this sort of after-sale change I'll stop pushing Teslas too. But I don't think it will come to that.�
May 13, 2015
mryeburn I posted this thread about 8 months ago when I started saving to buy a Tesla - the plan has been to order a Model S later this year. Like the OP, I had been reassured multiple times by Tesla sales people, and by someone from Tesla on the phone (I forget who I called so many months ago) that Ranger visits will be $100.00 despite the fact that I live far from a Tesla service centre, and if need be, Tesla would ship my vehicle round trip to their service centre at Tesla's cost. I was unable to get anything in writing, and I would not place a purchase order without getting it in writing.
I do not do business with any company that treats their customers like this.�
May 14, 2015
stopcrazypp I actually linked to your thread in my post. The thing is that it WAS true at the time you asked that ranger services was $100 flat rate. This was true since September 2012. However somewhere near the end of last year or beginning of this year, the policy changed. I guess their accountants said this was costing them too much money and given there was no written guarantee how long this policy would remain in place, they reverted back to the old one from the Roadster era (where $100 is minimum and rate varies by distance).�
May 14, 2015
brianman Also note that if you got the "anywhere 4+4" service plan in the "early days" of Model S, the web site now links to a PDF that doesn't say anything about the "anywhere" part. I already contacted my service center about it (after getting no response from servicehelpna). Service center said they will honor the existing contract, but I still need to follow-up with Tesla corporate to get the website corrected under "My Tesla". Pointing to the wrong plan is b.s.�
May 14, 2015
green1 Speaking as someone living in a city that has a perpetual "coming soon" service centre (It's not "soon" by any sane definition if it's multiple years and no hint of any progress!!!). This worries me a lot. I want to buy a Tesla "soon" (the real definition, not Tesla's) but if they're going to charge me a thousand dollars for a warranty visit (nearest service centre is about 1000km away) that could get expensive fast!�
May 15, 2015
Doug_G $800 for Newfoundland sounds less expensive than the original Ranger service charge. What is the rate they are charging per mile/km?
In Canada they were originally charging $1 per km instead of $1 per mile. For my first annual service for my Roadster I was charged $868! I went to bat with service over that, pointing out that their web site specifically quoted $1/mile throughout. Tesla eventually agreed to change the rate for Canada to $0.65 per km - only slightly higher than the US rate. That reduced my bill to $564.
The bill would have been reduced more when they opened Montreal, but by then Tesla had switched to the $100 flat rate. Hurray!!!
Needless to say I purchased the Model S "anywhere service" plan when it was originally offered. Wasn't going to take any chances on that. It proved to be a good investment given the large number of service visits my early Signature has required. However my Roadster is affected by this rate increase. Luckily it hasn't required anywhere near as much service.
Still, given the moving target on service costs, I think it's safe to say I'm holding on to my Signature and it's service plan for the full eight years. No P85D for me!!!�
May 20, 2015
Doug_G I did get some information back from Tesla on this. Apparently because Tesla is planning a service center for Ottawa, they're not charging the fees here. I imagine the same would be true for Calgary.
I don't have any information on NFLD though - I guess the OP will have to pursue it.�
May 20, 2015
Genebe Tesla seems to be doing whatever it takes to kill sales to people who don't live near an authorized service center and/or approved body shops. If you have to pay $800 for a tech to come fix a wiper blade & tail light, or have your car hauled to a service center or body shop that's 500 miles away, you cannot economically justify buying this car, no matter what the price of gasoline.
I know it's a loss-leader to provide these services to rural customers, but that's how you build a brand and reputation. Look how well serving the rural areas first did for Wal-mart; nobody every thought they would unthrone K-Mart with that business philosophy.�
May 21, 2015
>NetZero So an update on our service experience:
The Tesla Ranger arrived to to fix our door handle problem. Very nice gentleman out of the Montreal Service Centre and he knew his stuff. He simply replaced the entire door handle assembly which involved removing the door paneling to access it. He had it all put back together and working in a little less than 2 hours so that was great.
We also had him look into a squeaky front suspension noise that has been slowly getting worse over the last month. Without putting it up on a lift he simply said its needs to be fixed quite soon and must be done at the Montreal Service Centre. We were going up in a few weeks anyways for our 1st annual service so its not a big problem. However, it goes back to the heart of the issue: We still don't know what Tesla plans on doing long term for its more remote customers who need service. What if we were not going to Montreal anytime soon? Would Tesla cover the cost of transporting the vehicle to Montreal and back to fix a problem with a strut? I don't think they will be doing it for future customers and I am beginning to think they are not going to ever do it for us even though we have it in writing that they will cover those costs.
We also haven't heard from anybody at Tesla about the $100 fee for Ranger service going forward. This "one time" we got away with $100, but if the Montreal Service Centre has their way we will be paying $800+ every time a Tesla Ranger needs to visit us. Not sustainable for anybody.
Another Model S owner (there are only two Model S owners in the province thus far) here required a roof clip to be replace on his pano roof. Again he was told by the Montreal service centre it was going to be $800 for the ranger to visit him to replace his roof clip! The owner complained and told them our story and he got it for the $100 as well but this one time only...
We will now await our report for the service that was done, and what Tesla is going to say about the front strut issue. The Tesla ranger said it could become a safety issue if not dealt with so Tesla has to acknowledge that it needs to be fixed soon. Are they going to ask us to bring the car to Montreal at our own costs? Should we play devils advocate and tell them that we were not planning to come up in a few weeks for the annual service just to see how it all plays out?
Related: Separate to the whole remote service issue, does anyone know if work on a squeaky front strut has to be completed at a Tesla Service Centre? If they sent down the right parts from Montreal couldn't a tesla ranger bring the car to a garage with a lift to complete the work here... He mentioned it had to do with the ball joint. Montreal is a long way to go to fix an issue thats pretty standard on any car.�
May 21, 2015
neroden One reason I downloaded a copy of the plans I paid for immediately. (I just verified to make sure I still have them along with the receipt.) Tesla is generally completely incompetent when it comes to legal issues, anyway; I certainly wouldn't trust their website to be correct.
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Yup.
Yep.
I'm going to be talking to some other Tesla owners in Ithaca soon. One of them is planning to buy a Model X, and I'm afraid I'm going to have to advise her not to do so.�
May 26, 2015
Mayhemm I'm following this issue very closely, as I'm over 2000km from the nearest service centre!
I needed a Ranger last October. Charging unit went bad while I was in Nova Scotia. Without any prodding, Montreal sent a ranger out to correct it 2 days later and, like >NetZero, I was NOT even charged the $100 fee!
What's up Tesla?! I've been singing your praises to everyone I meet for over a year now! This treatment is something I would expect from a sketchy used-car lot! Waiving the fee in some cases and then grossly inflating it in others, WTF?!
If Tesla has reneged on its Ranger policy, I expect to see at least a blog post detailing the new policy (better yet, a tweet from Elon himself, who has a lot to answer for)�
May 26, 2015
MarkR You must understand that "Coming Soon" is Teslaspeak for "We hope it will happen someday, but don't expect it within the next year."�
May 26, 2015
ItsNotAboutTheMoney Just think of Elon Musk as a ruthless businessman who will do anything to achieve his goals and will run over anything and anyone in his way. (Because he is). Right now Tesla is burning through its cashpile, has a ever-shifting X roll-out and is trying to expand its Supercharger network and build the first part of the Gigafactory. Removal of fixed-price Ranger service is a natural target for the cost-cutting they're trying to do right now, so if you want to keep it you'll have to go up the chain to get them to back off.�
May 26, 2015
green1 Oh I understand that very well, if I actually thought "Soon" meant something with Tesla I wouldn't be reading this thread at all because I'd be expecting to use a service centre instead of a ranger when I buy my MS "soon"�
May 26, 2015
Doug_G I don't think it's quite as bad as that. Tesla told me that they're waiving the fee in Ottawa because our service center is coming. Assuming a consistent policy, then they would calculate your fees based on your distance from the "coming soon" Calgary service center.�
May 26, 2015
green1 My worry is that, to date, Tesla hasn't been very good with consistent policies....�
May 28, 2015
Mayhemm You got me there, Doug. :biggrin:
Ok, I'm only 1600km from the nearest service centre then.�
May 28, 2015
Doug_G :biggrin:�
May 28, 2015
mibaro2 I had a squeaky front strut. The mechanic that took it for a test drive knew what it was without going under the car. They did tell me it was a safety issue. If it is similar to mine they need to drop the battery down first, which is why it is required to be done at the SC. It was a 2 day job.�
May 29, 2015
eepic This is really disappointing to hear. Word of mouth is their most powerful growth driver right now, and this is a stupid way to piss off a lot of its biggest advocates. If they really have a large number of customers out east that this is becoming a significant cost, then the obvious solution is to build a service centre over there while maintaining excellent customer service in the interim.
They should absolutely honour commitments to customers. I say definitely escalate this, all the way up to Jerome if necessary.�
May 29, 2015
mibaro2 +1
Tesla knows it needs more service centers, and will get them done slowly. But they need to honor their agreement made at the time of purchase for the OP. If they are changing the Ranger service, then grandfather it in.
They shouldn't change the ranger service since it will put them in a catch 22 situation. (no one buys teslas there since there is no sc, and there is no sc since no one buys teslas there.)�
May 29, 2015
>NetZero Thanks for your support eepic and others! We are indeed continuing to escalate this issue and will keep everyone posted on the outcome. So far, Charles, the Service manager for Montreal has forwarded this issue to his Regional Manager, Alberto Cortinas, which I am assuming in some way is his boss? Alberto is the Regional Manager for Southeast US and Eastern Canada. We were told on Tuesday we would hear from him before the end of the week with what options we have available to us. So were making some progress!�
May 29, 2015
eepic Not at all, sorry you have to deal with this. I'm hoping Tesla makes this right by offering an apology and provides peace of mind that they will fully back their commitments to you and other owners in a similar situation.�
May 29, 2015
Mayhemm Heh, so much for the claim that the standard suspension is cheaper/easier to repair. I bet many people concerned about potential reliability issues with the SAS were under the impression they could just take it to their local shop.�
May 30, 2015
Nixx Well, I guess I'll get a boat this year. I can't afford $1000 a service call (or $2000 if it's for the round trip).
A service center might come to Saskatchewan by 2020... in time for Model 3, I guess.�
Jun 1, 2015
dogphlap This is of some concern to me since I have a deposit on a Model S 70D and I live 1000km north of the nearest service centre (with no SuperChargers on the way either, maybe in 18 months there could be some).
There have been a few things that have disturbed me about Tesla's attitude of late. The first was the way the US website is prominently displaying prices with tax rebates, fuel savings and ironically reduced service costs factored in. This is terrible from all stand points, firstly it won't fool anyone long enough to get a deposit out of them (the real price is still there in a smaller font, so it's a useless pointless exercise) and secondly it makes Tesla look like a typical shonky car dealer (one of the main reasons I gave Tesla my deposit is because I so want to avoid ever having to deal with a car dealer ever again). Then there is the way my email enquires about charging have been handled i.e. very rapid response but very shallow and terse to the point I've given up trying to get proper answers and of late I've turned to the reddit community to get my questions answered. Musk has said that service will never be a profit centre and that shows a smart attitude. As long as car problems (like failing door handles or reduction gear noise) cost the company money they have every incentive to improve the reliability of the car. If they try to make service break even then there is no real incentive to fix problems other than by just swapping out parts for another of the same non-improved design. I hate to see them back away from this and wonder if some of the problem is the way folks from the old broken car manufacturing world have ended up in prominent positions within Tesla.
I ordered my car on April 9th and it's not due to be delivered before late September. Maybe it is time to cancel the order and write off the deposit.�
Jun 13, 2015
Phillip L After reading this forum I am a bit concerned. The sad thing is when it comes to the actual vehicle itself it is just such a wonderful joy to own. I live about 210 km from a service centre so I am not in the position that others are in. I bought the 8 year maintenance package and it did state that the range fee was $100.00 in the pdf contract attached to the email confirmation. If it pertains in the case of the regular maintenance then I wonder if it would also hold for repairs?�
Jun 13, 2015
CHG-ON I called for a service checkup at the Sunnyvale station about two weeks ago and they offered me Ranger Service for the standard 100 fee. I said I was surprised because I had heard that it was cancelled. She said: "not everywhere", but would not elaborate. I took them up on it for a 7-21 appt. The convenience is well worth the 100 clams!�
Jun 18, 2015
eloder What would be worse than expensive ranger visits? No service whatsoever if the company goes bankrupt with unsustainable practices like $100 to fly 500 miles out. I always take common sense when approaching any policy that's both subject to change, and too good to be true, and assume that it will indeed change in the future.
I understand it's super frustrating, but unless you specifically had a service plan (like those with the 8 year ranger plans), they have every right to change policies that are publicly listed as subject to change. No other carmaker even gives you the option of owning a car so far from a service center, when third party service is not available (i.e., every other EV out there, and warranty repairs for normal cars).�
Jun 19, 2015
green1 There's a VERY simple solution to that part... Stop being openly hostile to your owners who want to fix their cars!!!�
Jun 24, 2015
Mayhemm It's my understanding that Ranger Service was always only about repairs. Tesla stated from the beginning that the annual maintenance service would need to be performed at a service center and could not be done via Ranger.
Fair enough. But then I want to see Elon be a man and publicly amend the "Transforming Automotive Service" blogpost from October 2012 where they introduced Ranger Service; not sneak policy changes in the back door where owners (current and future) will be blindsided by them. If your little service experiment failed miserably, then own up to it.�
Jun 28, 2015
neroden Ding ding ding ding ding. Be friendly to the "fix it yourself" or "independent repair shops only" people and a tremendous amount of the problem is solved.
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Flat rate Ranger service is *specifically* needed for people who are *far away* from the service centers.
Tesla could discontinue Ranger Service for people within, say, 150 miles of a service center with no problem. (With the exception of undriveable cars, which Tesla should cover in any case, but that's very rare.)
For people who can't make it to the service center in a morning on a bad winter's day, however, it's Ranger service, a third-party repair manual, or Tesla shouldn't even be selling the cars. This is *reputation-critical*.
Tesla is not expanding its service centers fast enough to cut back on flat-rate ranger service.�
Jul 13, 2015
>NetZero Well, it has been a while since I last posted an update on our service experience. It has been a very... interesting... experience to say the least. At the end of the day, the Montreal Tesla Service Center did take care of us as were hoping and we are extremely appreciative of that.
I will try and summarize the events as they unfolded and would love to know what others think, especially in regards to the sustainability of this program and possible improvements for Tesla going forward. SPOILER: IN THE FIRST YEAR OF OWNERSHIP, WE HAVE ESTIMATED THAT TESLA HAS SPENT ~$10K ON SERVICING OUR VEHICLE FOR A VARIETY OF ISSUES BUT MAINLY THE COST IS ATTRIBUTED TO RANGERS FLYING HERE AND TRASNPORTING A VEHICLE TO THE SC. I understand much of this is specific to our case, being on an island... 2000+ km away from SC...
We had a squeaky front strut due to a ball joint that the Tesla Ranger identified during a trip down to replace faulty door handle. Tesla confirmed that it must be replaced at the Montreal SC. After many back and forth about how to actually get the vehicle to the SC, Tesla insisted that WE drive the car 2 hours to the Argentina ferry and put it on the ferry to be picked up by a Tesla driver in North Sydney, NS. Problem was... that particular ferry did not begin seasonal operation for another 3 weeks. We said, fine with us, but asked (several times) if it was safe/advisable to continue to drive our car for these 3 weeks, which we never got an answer.
We continued to drive the car, and wouldn�t you believe it, the car broke down...in the middle of a drive to a remote location... on a Sunday... This was about a week before the schedule transit to the ferry. It seemed to be an electrical issue not related to the ball joint. Tesla Road side assistance was EXTREMLY professional and very useful. They helped us locate a flatbed trailer to transport the vehicle back to our home. Once back home, Tesla said they were pretty sure what the issue was and was going to be sending down a Tesla Ranger to address the issue so the car was drivable again. As the vehicle was scheduled to be transported to Montreal in 4 days, we recommended that the Tesla Ranger NOT come and that the vehicle simply be put in a container ship in St. John�s and transported directly to Montreal. This would have been about $2,000 cheaper in our estimates. Tesla said they were not up for that and insisted the Ranger was going to come and fix the car and we would stick to the original plan of dropping the car on the ferry to be picked up by Tesla driver in NS who would then drive the car in an enclosed trailer all the way to Montreal.
So that�s exactly what happened. Tesla Ranger flew down to St. John�s, fixed some electrical cable that had been corroded, got the car operational again, stayed overnight in St. John�s and flew back to Montreal the next day. Try and keep track of the cost Tesla s incurring for all the trips.
We drove car to the ferry and put it on the ferry. TWO Tesla drivers in NS picked it up 10 hours later and they drove straight to Montreal (after just driving in a Tesla branded pick-up truck with trailer in-tow... two people... driving 2000+ km over 2 days... to get to North Sydney...$$$).
Car made it Montreal where the ball joint was replaced. As a preventive measure, they replaced the other front ball joint as well. In addition, they preformed the annual maintenance on the car where there was about 12 different line items they addressed including replacing the drive unit due to a �noise coming from motor�. All of this work was completed fairly fast in about 2-3 days.
We were then told by Tesla they were having problems arranging for the car to be delivered back to us due to logistics. They couldn�t get a driver or truck to drive the car back from another week or so. Long story short, we ended up flying to Halifax, NS where we received the car from Tesla who again, drove the car in an enclosed trailer with two people, all the way from Montreal to Halifax.
The cherry on the cake... Upon receiving the car we noticed 3 significant scratches in the drivers window that were not there when we departed with the car in NL. It appears either sand or some small grit got in between the window and seal and caused these long scratches with the window moved up and down. Tesla noted it and said they would replace the window at their costs. In our opinion, it needs to be fixed, but it�s not major and does not require a dedicated Tesla ranger visit. It may be wise to wait until the NEXT issue (I�m sure there will be another) that comes up or the next time we�re in Montreal.
In summary, I just want to bring attention to how much Tesla has spent on servicing our car in the first 12 months. We are extremely appreciative that Tesla has covered the majority of these costs so far and has honored their original agreement with us to the point where we even feel bad for Tesla. This is not going to be sustainable going forward and a solution needs to be found.
Here�s the tally:
- 3 Tesla Ranger visits (moisture in reverse lights, faulty door handle, and corroded cable). We estimate $1500 per trip for flights, accommodations, food, ranger labour, etc. Total of $4,500.
- Flatbed trailer to pick up car and transport 150 km back to our house. $400
- Argentina Ferry Crossing: $600
- Tesla drivers who drove from Montreal to North Sydney, to Montreal to Halifax and back to Montreal. Costs include: Labour for two drivers, accommodations for 7 nights on the road, food, gas etc. $3,500
- All of the materials that Tesla used for repairing the car including, two new door handles, two ball joints, drive unit replacement and a few other things. WAG of $,1000
- Grand Total: ~$10,000
They have only ever charged us a $100 fee for one of the ranger visits (the other two were apparently free???) and then the $650 for the annual maintenance. Again, I can�t stress how grateful we are to Tesla and the Montreal SC for taking care of us. However, we want Tesla, as a company, to succeed in bringing an affordable mass market EV to the market above all. And to do so they have to seriously take a closer look at the servicing of vehicles that are not close to a SC. Looking longer term, I don�t believe Tesla will be able to exclusively service ALL of their vehicles once there are 500,000+ cars on the road. I think they need to look at certifying independent service stations who can service cars locally and look at it sooner rather than later.�
Jul 13, 2015
mibaro2 Thanks for the update...quite an ordeal.
I'm glad that Tesla looked after you. I also agree that they need to do something for a longterm solution as a company.
It will be interesting to see how this unfolds when the model 3 is launched.�
Jul 13, 2015
WarpedOne I can only say wow and hat off!
I'm sure Tesla knows what they are doing and why they are doing it.
10k is not small money but for tesla it is much more important to satisfy their current customers, while they still can afford it.
In the future there will be much more SCs that will reduce average ranger millage.�
Jul 13, 2015
mknox Wow. I really think that Tesla is going to have to suck it up and enter into some sort of dealership arrangement for vehicles that are outside of a certain radius from a Tesla Service Center. This is just not sustainable. Your example is extreme, but I'd bet there are lots of stories like this with folks maybe just a hundred or so miles from a Service Center, which also has to be costing Tesla a lot.�
Jul 13, 2015
Doug_G It's simply what they have to do to bootstrap entering new market areas. When I got my Roadster there was one service guy in all of Canada, and he spent a lot of time traveling.�
Jul 13, 2015
mknox I think it was a different world then. There were only a relative handful of Roadsters in Canada. If the Model 3 sells like Tesla hopes, they can't possibly afford to handle servicing the way they do for @NetZero right now. Either they'll have to limit sales into geographic areas that they can realistically service or find some sort of servicing partnership model with a <gasp> existing dealer network.�
Jul 13, 2015
dsm363 They might have to set a limit on how far Rangers will go at that fixed price.�
Jul 13, 2015
reddy I have to add my Ranger experience, even though it's not as dramatic as NetZero.
I had one of the handles quit retracting reliably.
I am in Amarillo, TX , about 350 miles from the closest service center, which is in Dallas.
Tesla sent out a Ranger. He scheduled an appointment for morning , said it would take about 4 - 5 hours because not only were they working on the handle, but they would be installing the titanium shield under the car, replacing a 12v battery, and several other annual items.
I had assumed the Ranger was driving up. No, he flew here on Southwest Airlines. He then rented a car, drove to FedEx where Tesla had sent all the tools and parts necessary for the expected repairs, and then drove to my home.
He was super nice, and did everything in my own garage. He left in about 4 hours back to FedEx to send his tools back home, then went back to the airport to return to Dallas.
When I tell my friends thinking about Tesla, what the service experience is like in a remote location, they are amazed. So far 4 of them have bought a Tesla.�
Jul 14, 2015
dalalsid Tesla really needs Tesla certified repair shops. Just give those tools away and train selected shops wherever they have significant customers but no service presence.�
Jul 14, 2015
>NetZero I do think Tesla Certified Repair Shops is the way to go. They can even be picky in selecting a service shop to work with in each city. For example, there is a local business here that sells, and services electric vehicles. They have a beautiful service shop (Tesla-esque) and have technicians trained to service Nissan Leafs, Chevy Volts, etc. They had their guys fly to attend the training courses to becoming trained to service each specific vehicle. Tesla could do the exact same. They could offer courses 2-4 times per year to get people trained up. Tesla could look into the shops on a case by case basis to ensure they have the right equipment available and if not suggest to them that they need to get X, Y and Z before they can be certified.
People talk about how Tesla Service is different in that it doesn't aim to create profit. Thats fine for all of the people close to Tesla SCs. But I know from our own experience, we wold not mind paying say 15-20% more for service, if the service could actually be done locally as oppose to have the vehicle transported 2000 km to Montreal.
I know there are lots of other details that would have to be worked on, but I hope Tesla is at least looking into this option.�
Jul 14, 2015
Doug_G LOL Montreal service said the shield could only be installed at the service center. I even offered them the use of my lift. Seems they don't like sending Rangers if they can send a Valet.�
Jul 15, 2015
Mayhemm First of all, it's a tremendous relief that Tesla took care of you in the end, >NetZero. As someone in similar geographic isolation from Tesla services, I was greatly concerned by your plight and what it meant for people like us going forward. Considering how they tried to screw you over a couple times as well as the positive final outcome, what are your overall feelings now regarding Tesla Service?
It was my understanding that Tesla already has certified repair shops but they are still relatively rare due to the high cost of entry (sending someone to California for training, plus about $100K in equipment).
The problem I see with this model is that the certified shops know they're the only game in town so there's the risk of them boosting the repair costs (and who's going to say differently because nobody else can get parts), then the insurance rates will skyrocket because of the insanely high repair bills. :scared: :cursing:�
Jul 15, 2015
gg_got_a_tesla Collision repair shops are different from service shops, aren't they? Yes, certified Tesla collision repair shops exist but not certified service shops.�
Jul 16, 2015
mibaro2 One thing Tesla might be worried about is that the certified shops would fix one thing and either not fix it correctly (so customer experience is diminished ) or fix one thing and break another by accident. Tesla is still learning how to fix things themselves (like the inverter replacements).
So if Tesla wants to go it alone, they better start opening up a lot more shops and training people now. (thinking now that even if Tesla lost money on a partnership with service centers, it wouldn't be as bad a 10k or the cost of flying rangers all over the place.�
Jul 16, 2015
ToddRLockwood Your experience with trying to get your bumper cover repainted is the opposite of what I experienced. The Boston area service center (which serves Vermont) told me that they will allow non-authorized body shops to do repairs and purchase parts, as long as the damage does not involve anything structural. Repainting a rear bumper cover would certainly fall into this category. I had mine repainted last spring for a fraction of the cost of using an authorized body shop.
I'm not sure exactly what the policy is now regarding ranger visits, but owners who purchased the optional service plan seem to be getting free ranger visits�at least during the warranty period, and possibly beyond. When I purchased my P85 in 2012, the service plan cost $600/year and included the $600 annual service. To me, that made it a no-brainer. I know that the terms of the service plan have changed somewhat since then, but it still might be worth having.
The change in policy on ranger visits is disappointing, but not surprising. If you read the warranty carefully, you may find that Tesla left this option open, just in case the free ranger visits became financially impractical. It might have been nice for them to grandfather in the terms of the warranty for existing owners, as they do with the service plan, but in the end economic necessity may rule.�
Jul 16, 2015
>NetZero Overall I would say we pleased. Pleased to the point that if someone else in NL was looking to purchase a new Tesla, I could genuinely recommend it. AS LONG AS they had it in a written contract that they would not be on the hook for the crazy service costs associated with ranger visits and/or transporting a vehicle to Montreal. I'm not sure if Tesla would even offer this to new buyers or not, but without it no one living 1000+ km away from a SC can justify it.
Other things that we were not pleased with:
- We were told three times that the Eastern Canada Regional Manager for service was going to contact us directly. We never heard from him in the end.
- We found that it was quite a while between any work actually being done until we received a Summary of Service document to see what they actually did. I know they must be busy but waiting 5 days seemed like an prolonged time.
This is the big one though:
- Tesla Service made several decisions logistically that made things cost more. Examples: 1. We had a little moisture in our reverse lights. It was not a big deal to us but wanted to let Tesla know that it was a problem. We told them it was a problem that we could wait to fix next time the car went to Montreal or if down the road a Ranger has to come for another reason. But without even getting our approval, they arranged a dedicated ranger visit to fix moisture in a reverse light. 2. Transporting the vehicle from St. John's to Montreal could have been easier. We believe it should have been transported via container ship right from the St. John's port to Montreal. Having us drive it 2 hours to put it on a very, then pay 2 Tesla employees to drive down from Montreal to pick it up and bring it back was much more expensive then the other option. This would have also negated another Ranger visit when they came to fix the corroded cable to make the car drivable again. We could have managed to get it onto the container ship and Tesla could have picked it up in a flat bed in Montreal and brought it to their SC.
What about if all the invoices and costs went through Tesla and all work would have to be pre-approved by Tesla before any local certified shop could start. This way Tesla can still remain somewhat in control and help ensure customers are getting a good experience.�
Jul 19, 2015
Mayhemm You are absolutely right on this. For some reason I keep equating body shops with repair shops in my head. No excuse.
That may work on paper, but in practice I can see repair jobs being substantially held up by having yet another link in the chain. I got a taste of this when I had to deal with Tesla, their body shop, and my insurance company. Body shop couldn't touch the car without permission from the insurance company, then had to wait on Tesla to authorize and send parts. And the insurance company wouldn't give their okay until they familiarized themselves with Tesla's policies (basically took a crash course). It ended up taking two months to complete bodywork that should have taken a week.�
Jul 25, 2015
neroden This is the underlying problem.
* Tesla has to open a lot more service centers to geographically cover the continent.
* Tesla has to offer free ranger service for people who are outside range of the service centers. ('Outside the range' should mean unable to drive to the service center in, say, 2 hours. For now, I'd say >125 miles is 'outside the range' for S60 owners in the snowbelt, and > 175 miles is 'outside the range' for S85 owners in the snowbelt. Outside the snowbelt, >260 miles would be 'outside the range' of an S85. Once more Superchargers are deployed, longer distances might be applicable.)
* Tesla has to offer free ranger service whenever the car is not driveable, for everyone. For a full 8 years. This should be infrequent enough that it should be cheap to offer.�
Jul 25, 2015
mspohr ... and a pony!�
Jul 25, 2015
neroden Well, a pony might be cheaper to maintain.
Anyway, yes, Tesla MUST do these things if they want to sell cars. Otherwise the word of mouth will get out pretty quickly -- "don't buy a Tesla if you're too far from the nearest Service Center -- just don't". And that's not a good thing for the brand.�
Jul 25, 2015
mspohr Everyone buying any car always considers the distance to the dealer. Where I live, it's an hour drive to the closest car dealer of any brand and 1.5 hours to Tesla service. I considered that information when I bought the car. I came to the conclusion that that was a reasonable distance. (It also helped that there is a SuperCharger 30 minutes from my home.) I drive to the Tesla service when I need service and they are nice enough to give me a loaner if it will be a long time.
I don't expect any car dealer to provide free ranger type service to my home. If someone bought a Tesla and it came with a contract where Tesla agreed to provide ranger service for free, that's an extra bonus but I don't know anyone who has that contract. Some people may feel entitled to free ranger service but that's not a contract.
For most of us, we just have to deal with the service center being some distance from our houses just like any other car.
If someone is a large distance from Tesla service, they may not want to buy the car now and they may want to wait until there is closer service or they may decide that they will pay for ranger service. I don't think Tesla is that desperate now to sell cars that it needs to promise ranger service to everyone everywhere. Tesla seems to be able to sell as many cars as it can make without offering free ranger home service to everyone so I don't think they MUST offer these services. The distance to the service center is not a secret to anyone so no need to hide it and we don't need to worry about the "secret" getting out.�
Jul 26, 2015
Mayhemm The thing is, Tesla DID promise Ranger service as part of their big, "Revolutionizing Service" announcement a year or so ago. It was clearly outlined that they would send a Ranger to customers living far away from service centers for a flat $100 fee over and above any other associated repair costs. Or one could purchase the "anywhere" service plan, which included UNLIMITED Ranger visits. That Tesla has quietly removed reference to this program without telling anyone does not change the fact that they DID offer it, and led far-flung prospective customers (like myself) to expect a certain level of service and the assurance that Tesla would have their back in case of trouble.
I don't think it is unreasonable to request that Tesla publicly clarify their new policy on long-distance service and perhaps even offer compensation of some sort to customers who were misled into relying on this ill-conceived experiment that did not even exist for 3 years before becoming unsustainable (especially those who purchased the Anywhere service plan).�
Jul 26, 2015
Doug_G When I first got my Roadster, Tesla decided to charge $1 Canadian per km for Ranger service. I went to bat on that, pointing out that they were advertising $1 per mile, and this was 60% more expensive than advertised. Tesla ultimately adjusted their prices to be more in line with the US rates.
When I bought my Model S in December 2012, I purchased that "Anywhere Service" plan for an extra $100 per year. I was, for once, clever enough to sign up for a full eight years - I was worried that it would increase in price. Didn't even think it might go away altogether. (Not sure the extended service plan itself is a good deal... but given the amount of service I've had its way better than paying per visit.)
At this point dropping the plan is a disincentive to upgrade to a P85D. A friend of mine did, and was very annoyed to discover afterwards that he could no longer get the Anywhere Service plan. Won't be a huge big deal in a year or so (caveat - measured in Tesla time) when a store / service center opens in Ottawa, but in the meantime he's rather disappointed. He said he wouldn't have done the upgrade if he'd realized.�
Jul 26, 2015
Ocelot Hey NetZero, I feel for ya. Very few people here realize just how remote you are. Even bringing your car to Montreal for yearly service would be a disincentive for myself if I was living on the rock to buy a Tesla. Only 31 hours without traffic :wink
https://www.google.ca/maps/dir/St+John's,+NL/Montreal,[email�protected],-71.9398791,5z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x4b0ca38e6b0aa261:0x9e1fd4001f12261f!2m2!1d-52.7128315!2d47.5605413!1m5!1m1!1s0x4cc91a541c64b70d:0x654e3138211fefef!2m2!1d-73.567256!2d45.5016889!3e0�
Jul 27, 2015
Mayhemm Turns out the prepaid service just got a lot more valuable, since Tesla has quietly removed wheel alignments from annual service visits when you don't have the plan. If you want an alignment, that's another $150USD over and above the annual service cost.
Between this and the vast increase in cost for a Ranger visit, I'm REALLY regretting not purchasing that plan!�
Jul 27, 2015
mknox One of the decision points when I bought my car was that there was a Service Center close to where I live. As a result, I did buy the 8 year pre-paid Service Plan, but did not buy the Ranger add-on. Why bother when the Service Center was only about 6 km away? Now there are rumors circulating that my Service Center may close and re-locate a considerable distance from where I live (okay, not @Mayhemm distance). What about people in this boat?�
Jul 29, 2015
Doug_G At times I've wondered if there was much value in the service plan, other than the Ranger/Valet service of course. It was starting to seem like everyone else got the same stuff for free. Annual service no longer mandatory for warranty. So now I get free alignments!�
Jul 29, 2015
Mayhemm Fortunately for you, Model S seems to require alignments more than most vehicles...�
Jul 29, 2015
mknox Is that actually true? Mine has never seemed to actually require an alignment (perfectly even tire wear, no "pulling" etc.) but then, what do I know? Tesla's proably done 3 alignments on my car so far, and all I've got for my trouble is a steering wheel slightly off-center. Everything else seems the same.�
Jul 30, 2015
Doug_G My alignment was crap coming from the factory. Car was unstable under acceleration and it wore out the rear tires. Excessive toe out.
No problems since they adjusted it, though. I think there were some bulletins on the suspension also. It was probably an "early adopter" issue.�
Jul 30, 2015
bsd Hmm they charged me for an alignment and I have the prepaid service plan. At least it finally dealt with the slight wobble in the rear I'd feel at high speeds.�
Jul 30, 2015
kgclark Is there any real risk of getting the alignment done somewhere other than the Tesla SC? On my BMW and Porsche, I get an alignment when I have my Snow/Summer wheels swapped at my local tire shop. I'm 200+ miles from the nearest SC, so was planning to continue this practice if/when I buy a Tesla. Should I rethink this?�
Jul 30, 2015
Doug_G They might charge if you asked for the alignment, and it wasn't actually out of spec. Otherwise it absolutely ought to be included. Personally I'd ask for a refund on that.�
Jul 30, 2015
Jhall118 You an get Lifetime alignments through Firestone for less than one service visit...�
Jul 30, 2015
Lump 
�
Jul 31, 2015
mknox Mine was in yesterday for its 80,000 km "annual" service, and the alignment is included. (Also have the pre-paid plan). They actually didn't do the alignment because a) there was no evidence of any alignment problems and b) I am due to go back shortly for a drivetrain replacement and they will have to do the alignment then anyway.
Perhaps an alignment is only done at certain "annual" service visits. The 80,000 km was a big one. They flushed and re-filled the coolant, flushed and re-filled the brake fluid and completely evacuated and re-pressurized the air conditioning system among a bunch of other stuff.
I haven't been very diligent in using my pre-paid service visits. I paid for 8 and this is only the second one I've had done. Apparently, it's a "use it or lose it" proposition, and I may have forfeited the ones for earlier time/mileage intervals. The reason I wasn't so diligent is because it seemed like whenever I had the car in for anything else, the did a bunch of "annual service-like" stuff anyway.�
Jul 31, 2015
mibaro2
Last time I was at Tranmere and asked about the alignment I was told that ALL prepaid service visits will get an alignment at no charge if it is required.
As far as using the prepaid visits, you can use them whenever you want. In other words, there is no mileage or yearly time that you have to use them.
So you will not lose them, IMO. Did anyone specifically tell you that you would lose them? (No one from Tranmere has implied that to me).
@bsd : I would definitely ask for a refund.�
Jul 31, 2015
mknox Okay. I was thinking that it was maybe only included at specific month/mileage intervals. Not all the "annuals" include the same service activities.
I was told this, yes.
To be honest, I find it all a bit confusing. I originally bought the pre-paid plan because, at the time, it was stated you had to have the inspections to maintain your warranty, and it was cheaper to pre-pay. Since I drive a lot, I bought 8 years' worth since I would need two a year based on the mileage requirements. Later, Elon came out and said no you don't need the inspections to maintain the warranty. So I figured great, I'll just use up my 8 by going in once a year or so.
There was never anything published saying what you actually get at each interval. It appears that they do a complete different set of things at each month/mileage interval. I believe the plan calls for a service at 12 month/20,000 km intervals (I drive about 40,000 km a year). I think the first one I used was at 20,000 km and there wasn't a lot there other than replacing wiper blades and fob batteries. The one I just had was the 80,000 km which is a biggie. I assume I "missed" the 40,000 and 60,000 km ones and am not even sure what they would have entailed. I suppose the two I "missed" could or should just be tacked on the end, but they did say that you're supposed to come in for each one or you forfeit the plan.
The thing is, I have found that Tesla Service was already doing a lot of proactive stuff whenever I brought the car in anyway. If, for example, if I had condensation in the tail light, the repair order would have a whole bunch of other stuff I didn't ask for and wasn't even aware of. I'm not complaining... this is great, but it made it seem like bringing the car back the next day for an "annual" would have been redundant.
One observation that my family makes, as well as people at work who have seen me with so many different loaners, is that for an electric car, it sure seems to need a lot of maintenance.�
Jul 31, 2015
Doug_G That is true, but we both have very early versions of the car, and as early adopters we did anticipate more service. Perhaps there's been more than I expected... but the service has been fantastic so that has largely made up for it.�
Jul 31, 2015
mknox That's very true. There is absolutely nothing to complain about there. I also remain impressed at the level of personalized service they deliver. I think I have related this story before, but once my wife ran in to a fellow in an elevator with a Tesla jacket on. When she asked if he had a Tesla, it turned out he was one of the service technicians and after she introduced herself he not only knew me, but described my car and the things he had worked on. I have trouble remembering what day of the week it is, but these people somehow remember us and our service histories in detail.�
Aug 2, 2015
neroden Exactly correct. Now, Tesla is going to keep their commitment to me, which is great. But...
...I went to a number of car shows and "Drive Electric" events and fielded a lot of questions about the car. I told a lot of people about Tesla's unlimited ranger service plan. I caused at least one definite sale, and probably a dozen.
Now, I'm still going to be going to car shows. But I'm going to be telling people to NOT buy the car. And I don't know how long it'll take those people to consider buying the car again; it's not like they'll necessarily notice when a closer service center shows up.
Also, I can't ever buy another Tesla until they fix this. They just lost a potential repeat customer. I was considering getting a second car. Now I can't and so I won't. And I do have to call the couple I met who have a Model X reservation to warn them that they should cancel it.
This just seems like a boneheadedly stupid move. Eventually there will be enough service centers to make Ranger service unnecessary -- or will there? At this rate (6 service centers opening per year), there won't be enough ever! (Incidentally, since the release of Model S, there has not been an opening of a service center significantly closer to me than the one in Philadelphia which was open back in June of 2012. As far as I can tell, none is scheduled, even though they keep making vague claims that they'll get around to a Syracuse or Rochester center eventually.)
- - - Updated - - -
Well, it does, but that's because it was an early-off-the-line model. Most of the issues I've seen seem to have been design or production defects rectified in later-off-the-line models.
The thing is, anyone buying the car is worried that they'll get the "lemon". Unlimited Ranger Service provides insurance against the potentially unlimited costs of getting the "bad one" off the production line. Without Unlimited Ranger Service, the potential costs just from the transportation are unlimited. And while 99% of buyers won't have such problems, the 1% who happen to get problem cars will be hopping mad about their unlimited cost exposure *for warranty items* due to the transportation costs.
This is why Tesla has to offer a prepaid, free-after-prepaying option for transporting the car to service when it's needed, for people who live far away from service centers. It keeps the people who get the "problem cars" happy -- and there will always be a few of them, and if they're unhappy because they're out-of-pocket for many thousands of dollars, boy will they hurt the company's reputation.
How much should Tesla charge for Unlimited Ranger Service? Well, they need to hire an actuary to figure that out, because it really is insurance-like. But it *has to be offered* at some price.�
Aug 26, 2015
bmanke Today I too learned about the change in the Ranger Service plan. We purchased our Tesla in April of 2015 and we live in Chesapeake, VA. Despite living in a large metropolitan area our nearest service center is Raleigh, NC over 200 miles away. Before purchasing the car I looked into service knowing very well it was likely the car may have a few issues along the way. I too was informed about the $100 Ranger service which I felt was a fair trade off for not having a service center here. Now, a mere 4 months later we are having our first issue where our phones are notifying us of a charging interruption problem every night. Luckily the car is still charging and performing normally. Tesla needs the car back to properly rectify the problem and informed me it would be $606 to cover the transportation. I am quite dissatisfied as we bought the car under the assumption that service visits for warranty repair would cost $100. Now any service visit is going to be a $600 plus bill. I have been a huge fan of Tesla and have helped spread the word by giving numerous test rides and attending various events. This however is a quite demoralizing and souring development.�
Aug 28, 2015
neroden Sorry to hear that you've been bitten by Tesla Motors' false advertising, bmanke.
This is a really atrocious development. I don't know how much money Tesla is saving by this boneheaded policy change, but it can't possibly be worth the loss of reputation.�
Aug 28, 2015
Phil Seastrand Maybe you should change your profile:You don't seem that happy as an owner anymore.
�
Aug 28, 2015
Mayhemm If you think that's bad, try being 1000 miles from a service center! Or 1300(!), depending on whether Tesla decides to allow calculating the rate from service centers that are planned but not yet open. I haven't had need to inquire yet, but I bet my bill will dwarf yours!
In his defense, he, and ever other Model S owner, does have quite a few reasons to be unhappy lately.
Whoever they brought in to replace Jerome as head of service is sure dropping the ball. Or are these service policy changes Jerome's doing?�
Aug 28, 2015
gpetti Lthis thread started in May so the change must be prior to Jerome leaving.�
Aug 28, 2015
Andyw2100 Though if it represents a general shift in how Tesla is planning on treating its customers, and if Jerome had no say in the decision, it could have been a factor in his departure (assuming he is really gone, which has not yet been determined. Officially he is just on leave until the end of the year.)�
Aug 29, 2015
Robert.Boston This change is making me extremely glad I purchased 8 years of unlimited Ranger service when I bought the car, particularly as I now live 100 miles from the nearest service center. Tesla needs to revisit this change. The old "$1/mile, max of $100" probably doesn't cover the full cost, but that's why gross margins on each car are so large.�
Aug 29, 2015
andrewket Somewhat orthogonal to your real issue of not having a local service center, I'm 99% sure the interruption notice is a software problem that was recently introduced. If it isn't causing your charging to stop, I'd wait for the next release of firmware and the iOS app which I suspect will fix it.�
Aug 29, 2015
Doug_G They've obviously decided that they no longer want to attract people from outside their service areas, that it's not cost-effective and they don't need those customers. A strictly financial decision.
It will be interesting to see whether their store/service center and Supercharger rollouts will be slowed down to save cash. I know they went back to the markets recently, but they've got huge investments to make in factories, giga and otherwise.�
Aug 29, 2015
Andyw2100 And that is a decision that they have the right to make, though I think it is probably the wrong decision. What they don't have the right to do, certainly from an ethical standpoint, and very possibly from a legal one (though I am not an attorney) is tell potential customers one thing to sell them cars, and then radically change their policies in a way that negatively impacts those customers after they have made their purchases. That's just wrong.�
Aug 29, 2015
Doug_G Can't argue with that. Very disappointing.�
Aug 29, 2015
marcad80 as a Tesla "fanboy", I am getting a little worried.
they are starting to build a reputation of overcommit and under deliver.....
i wonder for how long the Supercharger network will be free......�
Aug 31, 2015
mknox I bought 8 years of Service but opted out of the unlimited Ranger piece since I live about 6 miles from my Service Center. There are now rumors of it closing and moving :scared:�
Aug 31, 2015
AB4EJ I have read a lot of stories on this forum about the huge costs Tesla must have incurred for elaborate (and sometimes repetitive) servicing of very distant cars at their own expense. I reckon the review of these costs in management team meetings must have made for some mighty uncomfortable and awkward moments. They are backtracking from an initial bad decision, it seems.�
Aug 31, 2015
Andyw2100 Yes, I think that is fairly obvious.
The problem is that when a bad decision involves commitments to customers, it is expected that companies that care about their customers and companies that care about their reputations honor those commitments.�
Sep 2, 2015
neroden The backtracking is a really really really really bad decision.
I mean, it's just converted a bunch of free good publicity into free bad publicity. I don't think they have any idea what they're doing. The cost of the reputational damage is monumental. They've got a few months left to reverse this.
Think of what happens to Tesla's reputation when someone with a very distant car (such as in Pittsburgh, PA) needs elaborate servicing for warranty issues and Tesla DOESN'T cover the cost at their own expense. Ow ow ow ow ow....
Providing some form of prepaid unlimited Ranger service for people over 200 miles from a service center, at some price, will solve the reputational problem. Even if the price is quite high. It's a form of insurance against getting a lemon: the idea is that most people shouldn't need lots of service (because their car will 'just work'), but those who do need lots of service (because Tesla sent them a car with lots of defects) have a way to cap their costs.
Tesla needs an actuary to figure out how much to charge for it... but then Tesla absolutely needs to provide it.�
Sep 2, 2015
Mayhemm This is precisely what I assumed would have occurred BEFORE they announced the Ranger program. But you know what they say about assumptions...�
Sep 4, 2015
Only Trons
Yes, I agree this must have been a financial decision. NetZero's explanation of his experience supports that conclusion.
I opted to buy the pre-paid 4+4 service plan with unlimited Ranger Service. When I took delivery of my MS in Apr 2013, the nearest service center (Rockville MD) was 20 miles away. That service center soon became backed up with repair work and Mid Atlantic area deliveries. But then another service center opened in Northern Virginia only about 5 miles away. So it is likely I won't have much reason to utilize the Ranger Service unless I am on the road somewhere.�
Sep 8, 2015
Al Sherman I assume they'll still give you a loaner if you can drive your car to the Service Center?
I'm going to need to check the new policy carefully. This may have an impact on my wife's decision to go through with the Model X reservation. I'm 59 miles from the nearest Service Center.�
Sep 8, 2015
Andyw2100 For now. Who knows what tomorrow will bring.�
Sep 8, 2015
AnOutsider Have you gotten a copy of the new policy in any kind of form?�
Sep 8, 2015
Mayhemm This is my biggest problem with this whole thing. Independent of the obvious reduction in services and the sudden gouging of remote customers, this has been done completely behind the scenes. There has been no announcement for any of these changes, or even new policy paperwork done up. Tesla seems to just be surprising customers when they need to use a Ranger. "Surprise! Your cost just went up by an order of magnitude!"�
Sep 11, 2015
Mike_HburgVA Not having time to read on line, I just found out about this change when a rear passenger window started pushing up some tar and a paper/plastic liner of some sorts. I have no idea what happened to the window to cause this... there was no accident. So I called the Ranger service to have this fixed. It is covered under warranty, but I have to pay 350 dollars for the transportation fee. SURPRISE!!! This was supposed to be 100 dollars. I just bought my car 6 months ago, and there was no mention of this policy changing!
I have read the threads here, and it is clear that no one was notified of this upcoming change. For me, it was one of the major reasons I decided to purchase the car.... since I live a bit from D.C... the closest service center. The salesperson didn't offer me an 8 year plan, but never told me that the 100 fee was subject to change. This is BAIT, and SWITCH.
Tesla has every right to change their policy going forward... but they should honor their commitment to those of us who bought our cars under the 100 dollar assumption.
Has anyone any idea of WHO to contact about this?? I plan to contact an attorney as well, and see if there are any arrangements that can be negotiated. (Perhaps Tesla could offer us a Ranger service plan?_)�
Sep 11, 2015
sandpiper Honestly, I don't think you have a leg to stand on. Tesla has the right to change this sort of thing, and it's tough to imagine that they weren't losing a whole lot of money on the $100 Ranger program. With the increasing number of cars out there I'm sure it was becoming unsustainable.
BUT!!! I think that what they're proposing to charge for the ranger service now is way too much. I wouldn't, personally, have as issue if it was close to cost recovery. Right now they're charging something like $3 per km from a service center. There is no conceivable way that it costs anywhere near that much for one guy in a truck.
Unless they reduce their rates, I can see this change having a really bad effect on sales for people who are not local to the SCs.�
Sep 11, 2015
Andyw2100 I am not a lawyer.
That being said, I expect if this is tested in court, Tesla will lose.
There are laws in place to protect customers from exactly this kind of thing. For those of us living a great distance from the nearest service center, being able to get the car serviced for a maximum cost of $100 or less when needed was a material consideration in the purchase of the car. It's not something Tesla can (legally) change after the purchase has been completed, (in my opinion, which again, is not the opinion of an attorney.)
If Tesla made a bad decision about this, and was losing money providing service this way, they are free to change their policy going forward, for new customers. They are not free to unilaterally materially change for the worse the terms of sales that have already taken place.�
Sep 11, 2015
sandpiper I've not looked through it myself, but apparently there is some legaleze buried in their more recent sales agreements (mine included) that says that they have the right to change this. I don't know how long it's been there but I think that they've known for a while that this policy would have to change and they've been careful to ensure that it was legally permissible. For people who post-date any such verbage, you have no leg to stand on. Before that may be a different matter.�
Sep 11, 2015
Andyw2100 Again, I am not an attorney, but just because they printed something that said they had the right to do something doesn't mean they really had the right to do it.
I took a business law class in college, and the professor used the following example to illustrate something similar to this.
If you park your car in a parking garage where you drive up, give an attendant the keys, they take your car away and park it, and later being it back to you, and you pay them for this right, they may hand you a parking stub that will say, on the back of it, "Not responsible for damage to vehicle." But they --ARE-- responsible for damage to the vehicle.
I'm not sure the ranger and valet service was ever written about explicitly in any part of the purchase agreement. But before I entered into the agreement I had most certainly asked about the policy, as had hundreds of other customers. We were all told essentially the same thing about Tesla policy, and how service would be handled.
Even if somehow Tesla can get away, legally, with changing this policy now, it's absolutely not the right thing to do to customers that trusted them.�
Sep 11, 2015
>NetZero Well it has been 4 months ago since I started this thread. There's been quite of bit of action with many people describing the troubles we went through in regards to Tesla Ranger service visits. I haven't heard anything from Tesla or from anybody else for the matter about Tesla's stance on this. It appears they want to stay quite on it for now leaving a lot of existing customers and prospective customers in the dark. While we were taken care of by Tesla to our full satisfaction, we can not assure anyone else who buys a new car that they will receive the same treatment.
Oddly enough I was contacted by a journalist from California yesterday in regards to this issue. They are looking for me to have a short conversation with them about my experience and thoughts relating to Tesla's Ranger service. I told them I would be happy to do it. I thought if this would bring attention to the situation something good might come of it.
I will discuss the history of what happened with our Tesla ranger experiences but the main thing I would like to get across to the journalist is that I believe Tesla needs to be open to authorizing third party service centres to work on their vehicles as I have written before. I want to see millions of Tesla's on the road ASAP but in order to realistic service these vehicles they will need help. I just don't see them being able to do it ALL themselves. Especially for those places that are far from a Tesla Service Centre.
I wanted to post here to see if there were any other TMC members with something else that I should try and bring up during the conversation so that it might get out publicly?�
Sep 12, 2015
neroden And off I go to Drive Electric Week. And since Tesla still hasn't fixed this, I'll be telling people in upstate NY that *although* it's the greatest car in the world, they shouldn't buy it, because they're exposed to unlimited costs in the case of warranty problems.
Oy. Management at Tesla doesn't seem to understand the first thing about customer service. If they had any real competition (which they still don't, and won't until 2017 at the *earliest*), they'd be in big trouble.�
Sep 12, 2015
hpham007 Visiting car dealerships probably ranks up there with visiting dentists but one constant on prior cars is that I've never had to pay one penny for a warranty repair ever. To have to pay 3 dollars a mile to get items under WARRANTY fixed is a tough pill to swallow.�
Sep 12, 2015
mspohr I've never paid for warranty but I've always had to deliver the car to the dealership.�
Sep 12, 2015
AnOutsider There were likely a number of dealerships relatively nearby though, so not sure that's a great comparison. I believe I've got 2 Audi dealers within 20-25 miles and a ridiculous number of independent shops that are authorized to service them. Heck, I drive past 2 on my way to work.
My local SC is something like 70ish miles away.�
Sep 12, 2015
mspohr Closest dealers are 60 miles from me . Tesla is 85. Not much difference.�
Sep 12, 2015
Andyw2100 The difference is Tesla made a promise, people purchased cars based on that promise, and now Tesla is reneging on that promise.
Also the difference for you may not be that significant--85 miles vs. 60 miles--but for me, and for many of us the distance to the nearest service center is quite a bit more than that. I live more than 200 miles from the nearest service center. There are currently no superchargers on the route, so I couldn't safely drive there in the winter even if I wanted to. And I don't want to, because it's not what I signed up for.
I didn't just pay for the car. I paid for the car, and the exceptional service that was supposed to come with it. Part of that exceptional service was supposed to be my not having to do much of anything when the car did need something. I shouldn't now have to pay over $600 for something that I was told would be free before I paid for the car. (I was actually told that because I lived more than 200 miles from a service center, the $100 fee didn't apply, and there would be no charge at all when I needed ranger service, and that if the service was something the ranger could not provide on site, the car would be taken by flat-bed truck to the service center instead, still at no charge. Others were also told this.)
Tesla needs to step up to the plate and make this right again. They can charge whatever they like for new customers, but they need to keep the promises they made to customers who have already purchased based on those promises.�
Sep 12, 2015
LetsGoFast Agree completely. I would ordinarily not buy a car where the nearest dealer was 100 miles away, but did so based on all the raves about their service and the $100 charge. I'm not sure I would have bought it if I'd have known it would be $350 every time I had a service issue and I'm quite sure I wouldn't have signed up for the extra service visits. Thus far, the service center has not actually charged me for any of them, only described the new policy.�
Sep 12, 2015
mspohr I understand that you (and others) feel that "promises were made" which entitled you to free ranger service for the life of your service contract but usually service contracts have a written contract which states the terms of service. Do you have a service contract which states that you will receive free ranger service for the life of the contract? If so, it should be a simple matter to hold Tesla to that contract.
On the other hand, if you are relying on your recollection and interpretation of verbal statements then I don't think you have a very good case.�
Sep 12, 2015
Doug_G Of course a verbal contract isn't worth the paper it is written on.�
Sep 12, 2015
Andyw2100 First of all, this isn't even about the service contract. Tesla is trying to impose these fees for any trip to the service center, including warranty stuff.
My ten month old car started leaking about a month and a half ago. The plan was to wait until my annual service, which I had already scheduled back then, but needed to wait about seven weeks to get an appointment for. And for this first one the service manager is waiving the fee. But for argument's sake, let's say this leak occurred when I had nothing scheduled, and the service manager wasn't interested in trying to work with me. Based on Tesla's new policy, I'd be paying over $600 to get the car to them because it was leaking. That's just crazy!
We're not talking about random promises. What I was told about was Tesla policy. It didn't need to be in writing, because it was widely known. Everyone was being told what the policy was. My point is that we purchased cars, based on this policy. Tesla can't change it after the fact.
I'm sorry, but you are mistaken about that. As I was taught in that business law class I mentioned, oral contracts are just as valid as written ones for pretty much anything other than real estate. Here's some documentation of that fact:
--
Is A Verbal Agreement Legally Binding?
Is A Verbal Agreement Legally Binding?
Written by J. Hirby | Fact checked by The Law Dictionary staff
Verbal agreements and oral contracts are generally valid and legally binding as long as they are reasonable, equitable, conscionable and made in good faith. Although most people associate contracts with legal documents printed on paper for the purpose of getting them signed and stamped by notaries, the fact is that only a few types of contracts are required by statute to be written.
--
The article goes on to talk about the advantages of written contracts over oral ones, and points out that with oral contracts, it's possible for one of the parties to lie. That's not an issue here. There is no question as to what the policy had been, since there are hundreds, if not thousands of customers who had the policy explained to them the same way.
In fact, this is still on Tesla's website:
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/creating-world%E2%80%99s-best-service-and-warranty-program-0
--
Valet Service
Your time is valuable and should not be spent driving to or waiting at our service centers. Tesla is putting in place a valet service, so that your car is seamlessly picked up and replaced with a loaner and then returned as soon as we are done. There is no additional charge for this.
--
Tesla can't unilaterally change their policy for the worse after they have our money. It's probably not legal, and it's certainly not right.
�
Sep 12, 2015
Krugerrand But for argument's sake, let's not make up hypothetical stuff and then get bent about it. That's just crazy! The fee has been waived for you. Wasn't that awesome of Tesla to do under the current circumstances?
Sometimes policy changes. The reasons can be numerous. Off the top of my head a reasonable explanation would be that Tesla found they could no longer afford (personnel wise and/or monetary wise) to maintain the original policy. Surely you can see the drag on resources that is/was happening? Would you prefer they spend too many resources on Ranger Service such that they can't get to their ultimate goal or it puts them out of business? Would that make you a happy camper? Who will service your car then?
There wasn't suppose to be this many Model S's on the road at this point in time. There also wasn't suppose to be all those little niggly things (door handles, 12v batteries, spontaneously cracking windshields, etc.. to fix that they've had to, nor those 'combustion events' that caused non-recall service, nor drivetrain lack of lubricant events, et al... Nor was Tesla expecting to have to build a Gigafactory, or expand the SuperCharger Network, stores, galleries and service centers so fast. I could go on, but I think you get the point. Poo happens and things change because they have to change. It sucks, but there it is.�
Sep 12, 2015
Andyw2100 So far the fee has been waived for me once. And no, I don't think that was "awesome." I think that was Tesla giving me exactly what I paid for.
All of these things you mention were things that Tesla had control over but we as customers did not. Are you really making the argument that because the cars Tesla is building are proving to be less reliable than Tesla expected them to be, and thus more costly to maintain, we as customers should be bearing that additional cost instead of Tesla?�
Sep 12, 2015
Krugerrand They bore the cost, they fixed everything (and have done a lot of extra stuff for customers along the way for free). Now they've changed their Ranger policy so that they can survive, reach their ultimate goal (which btw isn't some insignificant, self-serving goal), AND still be around to service cars for years to come. I know you don't like it, but there's this saying about not being able to get blood from a stone. Tesla doesn't have the resources to continue the old Ranger policy. They just don't. Seppuku doesn't serve them, current customers, future customers, nor the goal of seeing a world of sustainable transportation. So vent away about the injustice of it all, that can be therapeutic as long as you realize is doesn't change anything but your blood pressure.�
Sep 12, 2015
Andyw2100 I can't imagine that the difference between sticking to the old policy for existing customers, and going back on their promises is the difference between making it or not for Tesla. If it is, they've got some serious problems.
You really seem to be saying that it's OK for the company to screw over its customers because the company made mistakes. That doesn't sound ridiculous to you?
As for venting and not changing anything, I don't believe I am venting. And I do believe that something will change. Because if enough people understand this issue and recognize how ridiculous it is, Tesla will have to honor the commitments they made to the existing customers. If Tesla becomes known as the company that is so close to going under that no one can trust them to do what they say they will do, how many six-figure cars do you think they will sell?�
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