teslamotorclub: No dash screen -- only 15" touchscreen? part 1

Did I miss something or is there no dash screen in the car? I only saw the horizontal 15" touchscreen in both the periscope test ride and reveal video.
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Yes, I noticed the same thing. Tesla rep seemed to confirm it too.

Only a prototype though...plenty of time for that to be rectified. I hope!
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I would also prefer a dual display setup... but, that's tradition talking. I accept change pretty easily though, I'll get used to 1 display pretty fast... on the other hand, that expanse of empty dash space... I might not get used to that so quickly.
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I would hope for a decent HUD instead of a secondary screen.
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Watching the test ride video closely it looks like they put the speed info in the top left corner of the 15" screen.
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CarlitoDoc said: ?

I would hope for a decent HUD instead of a secondary screen.
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Me too, I would like to see a decent HUD for speed and charge etc.
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I actually think it's pretty clever. Cost-saving, yet elegant and minimalist. Also works with LHD or RHD. Just need to change the software config to display the speed/range/etc. on one side or the other.
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I've driven a Mini for years with the center speedometer. It's downright annoying. You're taking useful information that you want to see often and moving it out of your line of sight and putting it "way over there". It sucks.

The LHD/RHD excuse worked in the old days when you had lots of mechanical linkages to the gauges. Now it's just a single CAN bus. Totally trivial to move an LCD around.
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I can't really see this happening. Having one screen is a cool idea but you really need a cluster by the steering wheel to show emergency info and car status when the main screen is not working and or the OS running the main screen is not working.
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It's a prototype, they are 2 years away from delivering this car (Despite claiming Dec 2017, it's "Tesla Time")
The fact the car is so far along is impressive.. many things can/will change by the time it gets to production.
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I would feel safer with a secondary display in front of the driver for the essentials like speed & battery. They get lost in big screen. What if the big screen froze up? Plus at night I would want to seriously dim or turn off the big screen. Plus there is the emptiness of the dashboard. I would like the big screen to look more built in, not just like it got stuck on the dash as an afterthought.
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In one of the test ride videos, the driver/designer confirmed there will be no dash or HUD. It's a combination of cost saving and space saving...can't have it all!
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In a video on the verge the same driver answers an explicit question about the dash. He sort of confirms the configuration as intentional and ready to move into production.
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Unless head of engineering who answered the question plans on changing it. Get used to it. The future is now. It's one display with speedometer in top left corner. I love Model S center display but what can we do
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Model S M.D. said: ?

In one of the test ride videos, the drive/designer confirmed there will be no dash or HUD. It's a combination of cost saving and space saving...can't have it all!
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So when the screen is not working or the OS running the screen locks up you'll know nothing about the car speed etc.
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Tanquen said: ?

So when the screen is not working or the OS running the screen locks up you'll know nothing about the car speed etc.
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Just hold both shortcut steering wheel buttons together and the screen resets. My screen has never frozen on me btw, *knocks on wood
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Another thought on it only being a prototype - where are the air vents for the AC?
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Model S M.D. said: ?

Just hold both shortcut steering wheel buttons together and the screen resets. My screen has never frozen on me btw, *knocks on wood
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Mine has reset spontaneously a couple times.
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The display as presented is non-functional. Under high-glare conditions, the speedometer will not be readable. The speedometer is also not large enough. However, I am sure they can rectify this with a fairly simple plastic shroud, and some software changes, before final production.

I've driven a car with an offset, centered instrument cluster. It works OK, but the anti-glare shroud is essential.

It's quite clear the interior is a prototype. Everything is in *roughly* the same places they'll be in the final version but they've got a lot of detail work to do.

Tina C said: ?

I would like the big screen to look more built in, not just like it got stuck on the dash as an afterthought.
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Remember the Model S prototype? It also had a "floating" screen which people didn't like, and it was more built-in by the final version. Expect the same.
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Relevant to note that the Model X prototype had a "floating" MCU design that was nixed before production and faux air vents.
I think its safe to say we'll see some sort of changes to these regards before production as well.
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I think it says a lot about Tesla's thinking, that they could easily have dummied a driver's dash but didn't. The RWD Model S was dropped. Traction control "off" was dropped. Then, AutoPilot. This follows.

I like AutoPilot, but will not be with Tesla much longer if they insist that is all I want.
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3mp_kwh said: ?

I think it says a lot about Tesla's thinking, that they could easily have dummied a driver's dash but didn't. The RWD Model S was dropped. Traction control "off" was dropped.
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Really? Mine still has the TC toggle.
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I'm thinking Elon's Part 2/super next level might include a HUD with some cool Autopilot displays projected on it so they appear to be on the road ahead. Would be great for navigation turn indications also.
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it won't work. I bet Tesla will add a small hud which will show speed and energy regeneration/consumption...
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Its great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Frankly this is (so far what has been presented) the biggest (and only) downside I've seen regarding the model 3. I personally have not driven cars where the speedometers are in the middle but can easily imagine that this quote is spot on:

tga said: ?

I've driven a Mini for years with the center speedometer. It's downright annoying. You're taking useful information that you want to see often and moving it out of your line of sight and putting it "way over there". It sucks.

The LHD/RHD excuse worked in the old days when you had lots of mechanical linkages to the gauges. Now it's just a single CAN bus. Totally trivial to move an LCD around.
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But as many have stated, it's still a prototype and we might/will see some changes. And overall, I think it looks really nice.
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Not too worried. My 350Z has an analog speedometer behind the steering wheel and a digital speedometer as one of the gauges above the center console. I always looks at the digital one, even though it requires looking slightly to the right. I am hoping for a HUD, though, since Autopilot and nav displays on it would be really cool.
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3mp_kwh said: ?

I think it says a lot about Tesla's thinking, that they could easily have dummied a driver's dash but didn't. The RWD Model S was dropped. Traction control "off" was dropped. Then, AutoPilot. This follows.

I like AutoPilot, but will not be with Tesla much longer if they insist that is all I want.
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On the contrary, my teenage daughter keeps on saying that she wants a car that she doesn't have to drive. So if you leave Tesla, she'll fill in
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Here is the video talking about there being only one screen and the fact that it's floating to allow for better air flow:

I personally also think it looks stuck on, but then again Mercedes is proud of they glued-on ipad design and some people like it. Interestingly I'd be more worried about software updates - think how often Model S got a cluster update vs. IVI update. They are tested to different standards (I've had the large screen reboot, partially stop working or crawl along at glacial speeds until reboot - not something acceptable in an instrument cluster).
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cashie said: ?

Me too, I would like to see a decent HUD for speed and charge etc.
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i'd almost guarantee it will have a cool hud. Remember they said we're only getting half at this part 1 reveal. We'll see lots more cool stuff at part 2.
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Tina C said: ?

Another thought on it only being a prototype - where are the air vents for the AC?
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Maybe the car is so cool that you never feel heat inside the car!
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I hope they will add a dash screen or HUD.
Because I think my neck will be in pain otherwise.

I already get shoulder and neck pain from constantly gazing on my right screen on my dual monitor setup. (I sit sligthly to the left and not in the center so it's my own fault really)
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houdini said: ?

i'd almost guarantee it will have a cool hud. Remember they said we're only getting half at this part 1 reveal. We'll see lots more cool stuff at part 2.
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I sure hope so. Because, as I was driving in this AM, I was looking down and thinking about how annoying it would be to look off to the side for my speed & basic alerts. I would absolutely hate it. Plus, I sortof like that not everybody in the car (cough! back seat drivers!) knows how fast I'm going.

I'm likely to stick with the Model S, but eliminating the driver's "instrument cluster" would be an absolute deal breaker for me. AP is cool, but I still like to drive!
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tga said: ?

I've driven a Mini for years with the center speedometer. It's downright annoying. You're taking useful information that you want to see often and moving it out of your line of sight and putting it "way over there". It sucks.
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As a counterpoint to this, I learned to drive (and took my test) in a mini like this and I didn't fail for speeding!
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How would the autopilot software work with the single screen? I guess you just wouldn't get the visual of what the car can see. Honestly, I don't mind the single screen, just curious. Overall, I really like the car. Got my reservation
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Centre instrument cluster has been associated with low end cars as a cost saving measure mostly, only exception I can think of is the mini...
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IMO it's cool and very forward thinking!

1. Has to help with the car's cost (as Elon has been saying about less displays for a LONG time, not sure why everyone is so surprised)
2. As Autopilot usage increases, driver gauges will be less necessary.
3. There are other features (adaptive cruise control, speed limit audio chimes) people could use for speed rather than taking their eyes off the road (even through a HUD or to steering wheel cluster) when they are actively driving.
4. Minimalist design / less distraction

As autonomy improves steering wheel clusters are going to seem more and more antiquated; this will be looked back at the first vehicle to recognize that. The steering wheel will be for when you have to be driving actively in tricky intersections and emergencies looking at the road/surroundings (not instrument cluster details). The center console will be for when it is driving autonomously (vast majority of the time).
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Years ago I started using a Garmin GPS. It is mounted in my car, just a little higher than where that screen is in the Model 3. I've grown very accustomed to viewing my speed via the much easier to read and more accurate GPS screen and barely ever use the actual instruments anymore. It actually takes longer for me to use the instruments in my car, because I have to scan for the speedometer needle, then check the gauge and then estimate if I'm at 44 or 46. For those that say they "need" instruments directly in front because it's faster to look at, your eye movements are equally fast in a glance down and straight as opposed to down and right. You are just conditioned to do the former.

I think that the screen + HUD would be ideal, as that would take away the "looking down" part entirely for basics like speed and GPS directions.
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xmetal said: ?

It actually takes longer for me to use the instruments in my car, because I have to scan for the speedometer needle, then check the gauge and then estimate if I'm at 44 or 46.
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I also prefer digital over needle, but with a LED display nothing stops you from offering different styles.

Edit: God I hate this new Forum auto convert links... see 21:10
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Tanquen said: ?

So when the screen is not working or the OS running the screen locks up you'll know nothing about the car speed etc.
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I don't know of any other car with redundant displays.
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neroden said: ?

It's quite clear the interior is a prototype.
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Tesla employees were pretty clear that this wasn't a prototype but near production version. It's not final, but I wouldn't expect any drastic changes.
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whitex said: ?

Here is the video talking about there being only one screen and the fact that it's floating to allow for better air flow:

I personally also think it looks stuck on, but then again Mercedes is proud of they glued-on ipad design and some people like it. Interestingly I'd be more worried about software updates - think how often Model S got a cluster update vs. IVI update. They are tested to different standards (I've had the large screen reboot, partially stop working or crawl along at glacial speeds until reboot - not something acceptable in an instrument cluster).
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Why in Heaven's name do they have 'music' on when they're talking to people about the car??
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xmetal said: ?

For those that say they "need" instruments directly in front because it's faster to look at, your eye movements are equally fast in a glance down and straight as opposed to down and right. You are just conditioned to do the former.
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Well, I've had 8 years of "un-conditioning" driving the Mini, and it's still annoying...
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tga said: ?

Well, I've had 8 years of "un-conditioning" driving the Mini, and it's still annoying...
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Well yes, because the Mini instrument "thing" is a complicated design abomination of a hundred different graphical distractions, instead of a simple digital speed readout.
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xmetal said: ?

It actually takes longer for me to use the instruments in my car, because I have to scan for the speedometer needle, then check the gauge and then estimate if I'm at 44 or 46.
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Back in the 80's when all-digital displays came into vogue, there were several studies that showed your brain could parse analog gauges with needles faster than digital displays of numbers.

It's easier to scan temp/oil pressure/voltmeter/fuel and notice "All gauges point in the middle - all systems OK" and "the tach is ~2k below redline" than to have to see a digital display, have to read numbers, and internally compare to ideal values ("60psi oil - OK, 40 is the minimum, so we're good") - an analog gauge does the range comparison visually, and you rarely need to know exact values, just rough approximations.

Admittedly, there are fewer systems to monitor in an EV, so this is less of an issue than for ICE. But when monitoring multiple pieces of data, cognitive processing works faster for analog than digital.

Give me a HUD for speed and nav, and I'm happy.

xmetal said: ?

Well yes, because the Mini instrument "thing" is a complicated design abomination of a hundred different graphical distractions, instead of a simple digital speed readout.
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Nope, just a big ~6" analog gauge with a single needle. Yes, there are a bunch of idiot lights there, but they never turn on. Actually, that's where the fuel/temp gauges are, so there's a few minor distractions. And I spend a bit of mental energy monitoring the temp gauge, out of distrust of 12 year old hoses!
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I agree that the 'stuck on' iPad looking display looks terrible, and I'd really miss the driver's instrument cluster. Or I could easily live with a nice HUD. That's my primary complaint about the 3. I also think the snout and trunk could use a bit more refining....didn't bowl me over. All that said, I did get in a reservation yesterday.
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I don't think that's what the final display will look look like. Elon said this was just the first part and will reveal the 2nd part as it nears production, therefore the final will probably have a dash similar to the S and/or X along with a nice big screen in the middle of the console and not protruding out like we saw last night.

If they don't implement a dash behind the wheel then I imagine they will be going with some kind of HUD that will appear on the bottom of the windshield.
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I get why Tesla have done this; (in addition to the obvious cost saving) the driver could not be moved forward from the rear passengers' legs if you had the depth of a conventional instrument binnacle in front.

However, I'm certainly not pleased with the results; that this is close to final design alarms me. Quite apart from the dramatic violation of the "no weirdmobiles" rule, I have serious concerns about usability.

This isn't even equivalent to those annoying centre instrument layouts. At least they present primary information simply and separated from distractions. Here we have main instruments overlaid on a 15" screen that's busy as can be; that UI looked far too cluttered for the purpose.

No, I would far rather have seen even a small second screen in front of the driver, presenting the most relevant information - speed, battery state, odo/trip, power in/out, warnings/cautions. Ideally, navigation prompts. Autopilot status probably ought to be there too, when active.

Also, what about glare? Primary instruments have cowls for a reason, especially when they're LCDs.
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Well, if I'm not mistaken, the NEW Mini (the BMW one) NOW HAS got a speedometer mounted just behind the steering wheel. I hope the "single display" will go the way of "no centre console" as I note the new S now has a centre console.

For me, the big issue is going to be reflections and "bleach out" of the display in strong sunlight. With that glass roof and the sun behind how much of the single screen will be masked by reflections or glare. The "drivers dash" is usually deeply hooded to restrict glare and to aid visibility. The test drives were done at night where this problem would not show up.

I really wanted to put my reservation money down, but, as it stands I have been put off the car AT THIS TIME. Things may, and hopefully will change, which would change my view.
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What if they allowed you to bluetooth connect your phone to the car and had an app that displayed the speed, etc? That way, anyone who really wanted gauges could mount their smart phone or tablet at the base of the windshield or on the dash and call up the app. The current Tesla app displays your speed when you're driving. I specifically checked this on the way to work this morning. While cruising down the highway, my app said "driving 72 mph." Maybe even a third party developer could do this and design it to display the speed nice and large. If anybody does this, can I please have 6 cents per app sold for coming up with the idea
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I have a hard time with them saying it'll be such a safe car and then making you move your eyes down AND to the right to check your speed. That's WAY more distracting...

A HUD or second screen in front of the driver is practically ESSENTIAL. I can see it being an option for the "tech package" but this has to be the one major disappointment I have about the unveiling.
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xmetal said: ?

Years ago I started using a Garmin GPS. It is mounted in my car, just a little higher than where that screen is in the Model 3. I've grown very accustomed to viewing my speed via the much easier to read and more accurate GPS screen and barely ever use the actual instruments anymore. It actually takes longer for me to use the instruments in my car, because I have to scan for the speedometer needle, then check the gauge and then estimate if I'm at 44 or 46. For those that say they "need" instruments directly in front because it's faster to look at, your eye movements are equally fast in a glance down and straight as opposed to down and right. You are just conditioned to do the former.

I think that the screen + HUD would be ideal, as that would take away the "looking down" part entirely for basics like speed and GPS directions.
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Screen + HUD ( even a minimal HUD that shows speed, battery condition and general alerts & so-on ) would be fine.
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Tina C said: ?

I would feel safer with a secondary display in front of the driver for the essentials like speed & battery. They get lost in big screen. What if the big screen froze up? Plus at night I would want to seriously dim or turn off the big screen. Plus there is the emptiness of the dashboard. I would like the big screen to look more built in, not just like it got stuck on the dash as an afterthought.
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@Tina C - I agree with you assessment of the M3 prototype dashboard. I would like what you stated above but could live with something less functional.
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I'm on board if there is some sort of HUD. I'm assuming in the final version it will be similar to the S and X though.
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All this hub-bub over an enormous screen with the speed clearly displayed in your line of vision. You are not looking down at the lower part of the screen. You as the driver would be glancing at the upper left corner of the screen that is at the height of the upper half of the steering wheel. Do you know what's at that height? a typical dash. Except this one isn't partially hidden behind a steering wheel.The screen because it's in landscape comes much closer to the driver side than the portrait style model S/x screen. Glare could be a concern.

Do you remember the fury over the Model s touch screen? (I need buttons/you can crash while driving etc) I do! but now every car manufacturer is copying them.
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ljbad4life said: ?

You are not looking down at the lower part of the screen.
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You might if you are navigating
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First time poster, so pardon some clumsiness here.

These two posts pretty much sum up my concern. Having driven a Prius since 2011, I've adapted to having my gauges off to my right but I'm still not a fan. The only other thing I'd add to the posts quoted below is something I noticed while recently checking out the new Prius. Some of the gauges I regularly use in the simpler LCD panel are now mixed in with the Prius's "GPS" screen, which means having to toggle more often for things that are generally "at a glance." To my mind that adds to the potential for distracted driving.

Additionally, Toyota has a phone app which seems required for some features to be read. I could be wrong on that since the model I rode in and the salesperson didn't have great depth of knowledge on this. Since the app required being connected to the car's VIN, I couldn't test the app; all I could go by was its 1.5 star iTunes review -- hardly a vote of confidence. As someone posted, I'm sure some entrepreneurial app developer (like the one who posts here with his excellent Tesla remote app) can fill the gap but for very basic info that seems like an over-complicated option and phones would need tighter integration with Tesla's OS, which I don't see happening.

That said, I'm glad I stood in line for my reservation yesterday. You could say I have no reservation about that. This lack of cluster/HUD is not likely to change my mind but it has dampened my enthusiasm a touch. Still, I'm excited to follow the next 12-18(?) months' refinements -- particularly in regards to the instrument panel.

JER said: ?

I get why Tesla have done this; (in addition to the obvious cost saving) the driver could not be moved forward from the rear passengers' legs if you had the depth of a conventional instrument binnacle in front.

However, I'm certainly not pleased with the results; that this is close to final design alarms me. Quite apart from the dramatic violation of the "no weirdmobiles" rule, I have serious concerns about usability.

This isn't even equivalent to those annoying centre instrument layouts. At least they present primary information simply and separated from distractions. Here we have main instruments overlaid on a 15" screen that's busy as can be; that UI looked far too cluttered for the purpose.

No, I would far rather have seen even a small second screen in front of the driver, presenting the most relevant information - speed, battery state, odo/trip, power in/out, warnings/cautions. Ideally, navigation prompts. Autopilot status probably ought to be there too, when active.

Also, what about glare? Primary instruments have cowls for a reason, especially when they're LCDs.
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TC56 said: ?

Well, if I'm not mistaken, the NEW Mini (the BMW one) NOW HAS got a speedometer mounted just behind the steering wheel. I hope the "single display" will go the way of "no centre console" as I note the new S now has a centre console.

For me, the big issue is going to be reflections and "bleach out" of the display in strong sunlight. With that glass roof and the sun behind how much of the single screen will be masked by reflections or glare. The "drivers dash" is usually deeply hooded to restrict glare and to aid visibility. The test drives were done at night where this problem would not show up.
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I'm undecided on this. On the one hand, I love the minimalist, spaceship looking interior. I like how Franz and Elon are anti-buttons/lights/fru fru crap everywhere. I once had a VW that lit up like a christmas tree when you turned on the headlights. It was gaudy.

I also think that you don't need the HUD as much as you think when you're on autopilot. I use AP 95% of my commute and have the freedom to look at and use the center screen.

I am trying to figure out how they will integrate what is currently displayed in the HUD during AP though - the car, cars around you, sensor readings, etc if it is not on a HUD. It seems that center screen could get mighty busy if you also are using navigation and want to see your music. Maybe you won't be able to have all displayed at once - or it will be simple (it is on the S) to switch between views and so it won't matter.

Maybe something projected onto the glass in lieu of a HUD would work - but that seems like it would be expensive.
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Bimbels said: ?

I also think that you don't need the HUD as much as you think when you're on autopilot. I use AP 95% of my commute and have the freedom to look at and use the center screen.
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I'm sure plenty of people won't be on autopilot that much. So that's only one side of the story.
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jkk_ said: ?

I'm sure plenty of people won't be on autopilot that much. So that's only one side of the story.
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I'm just saying that people who haven't driven with AP might have difficulty imagining how the driving experience is different.

Also, I think AP is the ONE option not to skip on a Tesla. It's one of those things that once you have it, it's hard going back.
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Judging by the lack of buttons on steering wheel and the way the landscape screen is kind of floating in space, this is going to change a lot.

The screen will at least be integrated into the dash, why would you waste empty space behind something? It also increases risk of literally ripping off the monitor.

I don't buy the demo drivers assertion that this is close to final, it just can't be.
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tga said: ?

Well, I've had 8 years of "un-conditioning" driving the Mini, and it's still annoying...
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I drive a 2001 Toyota Echo which has center instruments and haven't found it to be any trouble. I got used to it very quickly after I got it 10 years ago.
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Bullrun said: ?

Judging by the lack of buttons on steering wheel
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That's an excellent point. I din't even think about the lack of audio (etc.) controls on the steering wheel. Surely in this market segment, it will have those.
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I will admit that no steering wheel buttons might be a deal breaker for me if that ends up being the final design. I love being able to answer and hang up calls with steering wheel buttons. I also prefer physical buttons/knob for music volume adjustment vs a touchscreen. So I hope that is not final.

I will survive with the center instrument cluster, but I would be much happier if there is a HUD. They are putting those in pretty mainstream vehicles now, so I don't think that is unreasonable.
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I've had the misfortune to have driven a car with only centered instrument cluster for a couple of months and I was so uncomfortable. For me emotionally it also expresses that it was not a 'drivers car'. So I really, really hope there will be something; hopefully a HUD (otherwise I'll get on of these like the Garmin Hud, Navdy, Iris, ...)

I'm fearing that Tesla employees have already been to grounded in the AP idea, feeling very comfortable about its operation that you really no longer need the confirmation of the info it display's today. Yet a lot of Model 3 drivers will be firstimers to AP and will be wary about its operation.

I'm also concerned about the effectiveness of having primary driver information on the center screen. To much clutter and other distractions that you NEED to filter out. The Model S screen is different as you do not NEED to look at it just to drive the car.
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A few thoughts if it's truly one screen only (i.e., only source of vital information like speed & charge)

Glare during the day (especially with those gorgeous, massive windshields) sounds problematic

Night time driving: does it kill your night vision? What if passengers want some shut-eye, but you need the screen bright for speed and charge-level? Sure, in a city, it's never truly dark out anyways, but in the country, it sounds iffy.

What SoC are they using? If it's reading out your speed & battery, I want 0 lag at all times. Can you imagine having lag/delays in your speedometer? I trust Tesla, but they went too cheap on the Model S SoC.

Because it's landscape, how easily can you touch/read things on the far-right edge (if LHD)? Even without color distortion like on TN LCD panels, the sheer angle sounds inhibiting, at least in reading clearly.

Now, because it's release is in 2018 essentially, maybe we will see OLED panels. The first OLED laptop is releasing this month (Lenovo X1 Yoga); they are brighter, can turn off black pixels completely (reducing glare somewhat), consume less power (if not displaying white), etc.

And, if it's really the only screen, I hope they don't cheap out. I'd love to see low-persistence displays (super low blur...it's like old CRTs) like they're using in VR. I run a 24" low-persistence LCD and it's done wonders for my eyesight.
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Whoops, can't edit posts.

Anyways, I think the overall paradigm they're moving towards is amazing.

Why do we have all those cryptic car symbols, anyways? "Check Engine Light", "Squiggly line with a circle", "Triangle with exclamation point", etc. Let's clear away most of what is really just mechanical clutter.
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Not sure if anyone at the Model 3 reveal/drive event got to see this and can comment, but regarding the instrument panel/dashboard/touchscreen issue, did anyone see the US DOT required warning lights in front of the driver & steering wheel? I know that in the USA there have to be certain warning/indicator lights that illuminate at engine start/bootup and then illuminate later for issues with the braking system, ABS, etc. There has to be a headlight & fog light indicator and high beam indicator. I know that the power up lamp display is a bit superfluous on the S and X instrument panel since there are no lamps to fail and thus no need for the traditional lamp test. But I presume that the US DOT (the same one that requires rear view mirrors when presumably cameras would be better and more aerodynamic) would still require indicator 'lamps ' in an arrangement for the driver to see. Are these now all in the new 15" touchscreen? If not, where are they on the Model 3? And if there is a small strip of indicators or the like, why not shoehorn in a small display for speed, gear (drive/reverse), etc.
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My wife loves her 2001 Toyota Echo with the one center speedo. She will be fine with the single screen. I have no problems at all adapting to her car instantly when I drive it. I think the one point brought up above is about my only mild concern. When I look at the center speedo on the Echo there is no turning map or moving music bar. It's very simple and straight forward. I have a little (small.. tiny) nagging fear that the LCD screen may be too cluttered to make checking speed a quick glance.

A friend of mine cleaned up a shot of the screen and posted it on my FB page. It looks very busy for a quick speed check BUT the speed is very clear so it might be just fine. OVer all I am hoping it get... refined.

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Clearly there is one reason for this design - to stop the arguments over which screen displays the time and temp.
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I'm guessing there is more info to come. But in case there is not, there are always aftermarket screens/HUDs.

Simple Garmin one on Amazon $87
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I've already voiced my concerns about not having speed/battery info in front of the driver. I love the big center display.....but will it get glare in bright sun? Will I be able to read it with my polarized sunglasses on (can't do it with iPhone)? I'm short and the speed on the top left of the screen might actually be behind the steering wheel in my line of vision. Will my short arms be able to reach the far side of a horizontal display? I do not like how the speed is in a box overlaid on the map. Too much visual clutter to see the important stuff at a glance. It took me watching a test drive video 3 times to actually see where on the screen the speed was displayed.

If the horizontal crevice between the dash colors is where the AC/heat blows out, then how do you adjust the airflow direction? I don't like air blowing directly in my eyes drying them out.

If it is still in prototype stage (I hope), then maybe Tesla will read the feedback they are getting in forums like this and make design adjustments.

I put my deposit down already. I'm so excited about this car, and I'm all for thinking outside the box and doing things differently, but sometimes things are popular because they work.
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With a well functioning autopilot displays might be less necessary.
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In second world markets and ghettos the screen will lure criminals, who will vandalize the car thinking they are in for a large tablet or convertible.
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Tina C said: ?

If the horizontal crevice between the dash colors is where the AC/heat blows out, then how do you adjust the airflow direction? I don't like air blowing directly in my eyes drying them out.
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Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. There could be adjustable fins in that channel, I suppose. I hope there is some way to adjust airflow. Sometimes you either want to target or avoid certain parts of the body.
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I agree with some of the comments above about the instrument cluster screen/HUD and sterring wheel button:
The Tesla dashboard design team
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Uncle Paul said: ?

With a well functioning autopilot displays might be less necessary.
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I donno, I think full autopilot is a long ways out. Especially those of us who travel on potholed rural New England roads (sometimes *gasp* unpaved!), and those of us who like to drive.
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cashie said: ?

Me too, I would like to see a decent HUD for speed and charge etc.
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Speed, Charge, and proximity sensor.
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It's almost as if Telsa is trying to gradually subtract from the driver's role of being the central point of focus in the driving experience. By deleting the instrument panel, removing all buttons and rockers from the steering wheel, and as one Telsa test driver mentioned, making the center display landscape instead of portrait in order to give the passenger equal access to controls, it feels like a precursor to the autonomous future. The future in which Telsa unveils a model where not only is the IP cluster gone, but in which the steering wheel it self is absent....Or at least one which tilts flat and slides away out of sight into the dashboard only to appear when summoned for manual driving or an autopilot malfunction. Exploring this idea of driver/passenger equality a bit further down into the rabbit hole, perhaps we may even see a steering wheel that can be moved between left and right passenger.

Where as before, in your ICE vehicles where you were the Captain and Commander of your vessel, what with your myriad incomprehensible toggles, knobs, and buttons laid out before you, now you are merely, but for one step away from being just another passenger....and we know Musk has an evil plan to sooner rather than later pluck that soon to be vestigial appendage from your 10 and 2'O Clock hands.
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Sudre said: ?

My wife loves her 2001 Toyota Echo with the one center speedo. She will be fine with the single screen. I have no problems at all adapting to her car instantly when I drive it. I think the one point brought up above is about my only mild concern. When I look at the center speedo on the Echo there is no turning map or moving music bar. It's very simple and straight forward. I have a little (small.. tiny) nagging fear that the LCD screen may be too cluttered to make checking speed a quick glance.

A friend of mine cleaned up a shot of the screen and posted it on my FB page. It looks very busy for a quick speed check BUT the speed is very clear so it might be just fine. OVer all I am hoping it get... refined.
View attachment 170070
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The existing software as displayed on that screenshot is obviously not acceptable. I don't think it would be approved by the NHTSA, and it should not be. The speedometer needs to be much larger. the "P / R / D / N" symbols need to be larger and it needs to be clearer which gear you're in. There needs to be a clear spot which is only for vital warning messages (like "CHARGE SOON" or "PULL OVER NOW"). Everything else in that corner of the screen needs to be removed; it is not acceptable for it to be an "overlay" with a distracting map behind it on all four sides.

Presumably they will fix all of that. The prototype model S software was very different from the final version.

As far as hardware, an anti-glare shield is absolutely necessary; Model S has one, the Toyota Echo has one, it's a piece of plastic, they can design one.
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favo said: ?

Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. There could be adjustable fins in that channel, I suppose. I hope there is some way to adjust airflow. Sometimes you either want to target or avoid certain parts of the body.
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Agreed. The ability to point air at, or away from, hands or face is very important.
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I've seen several people mention glare as an issue, but in both our S and X I've never had any glare issues on the 17" screen. I'm thinking it won't be a problem on the 3 either.
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Az_Rael said: ?

I will admit that no steering wheel buttons might be a deal breaker for me if that ends up being the final design. I love being able to answer and hang up calls with steering wheel buttons. I also prefer physical buttons/knob for music volume adjustment vs a touchscreen. So I hope that is not final.

I will survive with the center instrument cluster, but I would be much happier if there is a HUD. They are putting those in pretty mainstream vehicles now, so I don't think that is unreasonable.
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Quick check 2015 vehicles with HUD: Some BMW, MB, a couple Audis and a couple Hyundais. If, perchance Tesla does not see the need for a HUD (and I have only ever seen one in my life and I'm old), I hope you don't get bent because Tesla wants to give you what really matters at a price HALF of what their other cars sell for.

You don't get it all. You get the best for the money. Probably no HUD, but I would guess a button or two on the steering. Maybe.

Does the Bolt give you HUD? How about buttons on the steering, or fins in the air vents? Hmmmm.
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neroden said: ?

Agreed. The ability to point air at, or away from, hands or face is very important.
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Another non issue. Of course there will be fins in the vents like every other car out there.
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We had a BMW with a HUD and while it was neat, overall it was more of a gimmick. It was nice to see the speed and turn by turn directions up there, but how often do you really need to look at your speed? Especially in a car that can warn you that you are over the speed limit (by a pre-set amount).
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Bullrun said: ?

Judging by the lack of buttons on steering wheel and the way the landscape screen is kind of floating in space, this is going to change a lot.
The screen will at least be integrated into the dash, why would you waste empty space behind something? It also increases risk of literally ripping off the monitor.
I don't buy the demo drivers assertion that this is close to final, it just can't be.
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If you look around at newer cars interior design, more and more screens use floating design or "tablet on a stand" look. The bigger the screen, the harder it is to integrate into the dashboard - which, contrary to what you believe, would waste more space than a floating design.

There will be changes like the shape of the dashboard, position of the screen, buttons on steering wheel etc. But the basic concept of single large screen in the center with no instrument panel concept will not change.
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roblab said: ?

Another non issue. Of course there will be fins in the vents like every other car out there.
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You say this now, but you realize the Model S shipped for years with only two cupholders....in a car with 7 seats.
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I think a HUD is an absolute given. They stated clearly there is a lot they didn't want to reveal about the Model 3, and that current setup doesn't even look road legal. Also echoing concerns about having an infotainment system that can run apps and navigation also be the place where you receive essential warnings and info.

I think this is my only potential dealbreaker, if there's no secondary instrument panel or (most preferably) a HUD with basic info.
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Steve Capello said: ?

I emailed them and it seams as though it is one screen.
Tesla Model 3 Unveiled With sub-$35,000 Price Tag � AppleBits
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What does that link have to do with it? I don't see any email?
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Brad_NC said: ?

on the other hand, that expanse of empty dash space... I might not get used to that so quickly.
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Tina C said: ?

Plus there is the emptiness of the dashboard.
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So maybe they solved the storage problem? Flip-top dashboard cabinet.

Tanquen said: ?

So when the screen is not working or the OS running the screen locks up you'll know nothing about the car speed etc.
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How fast the car is going is a lot like cooking dinner: when you hear sirens, it's been too long/going too fast.

ljbad4life said: ?

You as the driver would be glancing at the upper left corner of the screen that is at the height of the upper half of the steering wheel.
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In retrospect wish I had grabbed the quote more in line with my point, but with Elon saying the display is as much for the passenger as driver, and the floating stalk design, could the passenger foolishly have the screen titled in their direction when you go to look over for some important piece of information?
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What happens if something gets in your right eye? Ever have a contact lens issue and are unable to open an eye or have extreme blurring in 1 eye? Try having to always glance down and to the right during a heavy rainstorm. Having a centered dash lets you focus on the road and see your speed at the same time. The speed being displayed only on the center dash is a terrible idea
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mspohr said: ?

I don't know of any other car with redundant displays.
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Don't confuse redundant with independent. Independent is so that when the complex IVI screen running GPS, web browser, apps, etc. malfunctions or lags you can still get your actual speed, watch for any warnings (car health or even blind spot warning which is useless unless updated in real-time), etc. Both Model S and Model X have their cluster completely independent of the IVI, and yes, the IVI does suffer form lags, occasional malfunctions, and on rare-occurrences spontaneous reboots.
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One of the most important things, that attracts me und wants me to get a Tesla is the Autopilot Feature. I want to see on a display or hud or oled or whatever in front of me, while driving, what the tec "sees" and what the tec "does". As a driver not being responsible is in far future, for years to come I have to be in control. Can't imagine, how a car can get an approval without.
Musk said he hasn' showed all. And the unveilling and prototypes showed absolutely nothing in this direction.
How will the top Versions with Prices 50k, 60k or more sell without an Autopilot Display similar to that of the MS or MX? That's one of the Features defining Tesla as a high tec brand in my eyes.
So I hope for the second unveilling (or the facelift of the MS or whatsoever coming first) showing the gen. II Autopilot Features including some new kind of visualisation in front of the driver within the next two years.
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At some point, side mirrors will become camera stalks and SHUDs will become the norm. But probably not starting with the M3.

Meanwhile, what comes to mind with the blank IC area is the JohnnyCab from the first Total Recall.
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whitex said: ?

Both Model S and Model X have their cluster completely independent of the IVI, and yes, the IVI does suffer form lags, occasional malfunctions, and on rare-occurrences spontaneous reboots.
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/thread

End of discussion. No company, not even famed Apple, has made a UI that is lag and stutter-free. Tesla's reputation on this is, at best, iffy.

How can Elon talk so much about safety, but in a car made for people to drive (remember, autopilot steering, etc. Is a paid upgrade) have the speedometer sometimes stutter, lag, or even crash?

There's legal implications, for speed limits.

I can already read the headlines: Model 3: a car built ahead of its time (subtext: a little too far ahead, unfortunately).

It's gotta have a HUD. No instrument cluster, as already confirmed, but something else. Polarizing design decisions can be smoothed out over time, but this is a place Tesla can't compromise.
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A lot is being said that with Autopilot you don't need a drivers console. Well, in the USA with it's wide roads that may be true. Here in the UK most of the roads I drive down, Autopilot would either not work (in it's current state) or would be dangerous.

Also, I thought the model 3 was going up against the BMW model 3; at least going for that market. Well all the BMW model 3 drivers that I know chose it FOR the driving experience. You are not going to get that with Autopilot and a distracting only centre dash. Another point is that with a drivers dash, the important information is always in the same place so you don't have to search for it. Another view that the screen is in the middle so "the passenger can get access". Really? A recipe for disaster that one. In an S or X if the passenger messes/uses the centre screen, it doesn't matter that much as the important information is "locked" in front of the driver.

I REALLY want Tesla and the model 3 to be a success, but at the moment I can't see it converting anyone who is not already convinced, therefore restricting the target market. I do hope the have done WORLDWIDE market research on this and not just spoken to those who would buy Tesla no matter what.
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rcarpen22 said: ?

What if they allowed you to bluetooth connect your phone to the car and had an app that displayed the speed, etc? That way, anyone who really wanted gauges could mount their smart phone or tablet at the base of the windshield or on the dash and call up the app. The current Tesla app displays your speed when you're driving. I specifically checked this on the way to work this morning. While cruising down the highway, my app said "driving 72 mph." Maybe even a third party developer could do this and design it to display the speed nice and large. If anybody does this, can I please have 6 cents per app sold for coming up with the idea
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There are apps out there that use GPS to tell you how fast you're moving. The one I have just shows a 2 digit speed. I think that would suffice.
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roblab said: ?

Quick check 2015 vehicles with HUD: Some BMW, MB, a couple Audis and a couple Hyundais. If, perchance Tesla does not see the need for a HUD (and I have only ever seen one in my life and I'm old), I hope you don't get bent because Tesla wants to give you what really matters at a price HALF of what their other cars sell for.

You don't get it all. You get the best for the money. Probably no HUD, but I would guess a button or two on the steering. Maybe.

Does the Bolt give you HUD? How about buttons on the steering, or fins in the air vents? Hmmmm.
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Cameros and Prius's have HUDs. Those are pretty mainstream cars, which was my point. They aren't expensive.

And I don't know why all the vitriol about having a HUD as an option. If you believe in Tesla's vision so much, you wouldn't have to buy it.

Edit: oh, I get it now. You must be one of those that believed the 3 would be an econobox because it was going to be half the price of an S. Well, I fully expect my 3 to be priced in the upper $50k range, so I would expect to be able to get some of the same creature comforts that other $50k cars offer. Otherwise how will Tesla steal buyers from BMW and Audi to further their EV vision?
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The 2012 Prius has a HUD.

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A cryptic man...

Elon Musk on Twitter
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Based on this I think Elon has confirmed the dash and steering wheel are going to change.
Another Elon Tweet

"The lack of a dashboard/HUD is something that I don't think I could get used to. That's the only thing I don't like about the car."
Elon reply "It will make sense after part 2 of the Model 3 unveil"

"1.Ferrari like steering wheel 2.Move stick functions(turn signals,horn,etc.) on a paddle shifter behind wheel. That would be cool!"
Elon reply "Wait until you see the real steering controls and system for the 3. It feels like a spaceship."

"why did you choose that hideous steering wheel design?:|"
Elon reply "that's not the real steering system"
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My 2 cents.

1. if there was indeed no driver's cluster, I'm certain there would at LEAST be a hud overlay.
>extra credit: imagine the autopilot display as an overlay...with augmented boxes around cars etc like an AC30 gunship (plus the augmented part). That would be pretty...what's the word....badass.

2. The positioning of the 15" screen, especially it's upper left corner seems to be almost directly in your line of vision. Doesn't seem as out of the way as the Mini gauges...

3. As far as the busy UI design, they said that will be changed some before production.

4. the floating screen design allows for less volume of the dash, giving more legroom etc.
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Regarding center-mounted touchscreens... I followed the Volt from concept to my driveway, and Chevrolet tweaked the design of the touchscreen because the concept looked like it was removable (but wasn't), and to strengthen it. Here's a picture of the concept:

and here's a picture of what they actually shipped:

Also note the shifter width changed (the concept "pinched" when going from D to P).

The screen in the Model 3 looks even more fragile than the Volt concept, so it will be interesting to see what they actually ship.

FWIW, I love what I'm seeing in the Model 3 and I hope they do very well with it.
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Elon Musk said on Twitter "It will make sense after part 2 of the Model 3 unveil"

So there will be a solution, we just don't know which one. My guess is a HUD.
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I hope they will use an OLED panel. When looking at videos of the test drives during the unveil, the strong backlight glow from the LCD screen was extremely distracting.
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Pando said: ?

I hope they will use an OLED panel. When looking at videos of the test drives during the unveil, the strong backlight glow from the LCD screen was extremely distracting.
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Agreed. OLED is the only reasonable choice. OLED panels are getting cheap; Samsung is pumping out 14" OLED panels this year, going into 4 laptops. And the price premium is only $200 (from what Lenovo is setting; no idea what HP or Alienware will charge).
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1959 Mini, another iconic car with a clean design and central instrument
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teslamotorclub

Thứ Hai, 23 tháng 1, 2017

No dash screen -- only 15" touchscreen? part 1

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