teslamotorclub: New owners and early adopter owners: Do I detect a major difference? part 1

This is just an intuitive hunch but my reading of posts on this web site and my experience with actual owners suggests a major difference between those of us who were among the early Tesla adopters (2013) and those who came later. Motivation for buying the car and attitudes about Tesla seem to be very different. It's difficult to summarize and gross generalizations are always risky and unfair, but I do think there's a notable difference. Early adopters seem to be more grateful to have the car, less likely to complain, and more interested and supportive of other owners and the Tesla community. Newer owners seem to be more status driven, more likely to complain about service and other matters, more concerned about "luxury" appointments and the like. Of course there are always major exceptions but this is a pattern that seems to hold true.

Opinions? Let the flaming begin
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First!

Nothing useful to add, just want a front row seat for this.
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I'm just wondering how many new owners will stand up and say 'oh yeah, that's me, I totally am not an early adopter'.

This will not go well.
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Artsci, I wonder of there are any generational differences fueling this. I'd have to go back to 2012 and there about to look at the polls, but if you remember, as I'm sure you do, we either put down $40k or $5k and had to wait anywhere from 1-3 years for a car. There was no leasing, so we paid for our cars in full (loan or not). I think as a group we were a bit more patient (delayed satisfaction), although I'm often impatient! We were prepared for imperfections. There weren't many Teslas out there so when we needed service we got immediate treatment.

Now, there are CPO, used, leases, etc. If you want a new one, you don't have to wait long. SCs and service centers are filled. Perhaps the age has shifted to younger buyers. Perhaps the expectations are too high for newer buyers.

Perhaps the newer buyers will be more like the "older" buyers after a year or two of driving the car and being reminded of how great it is.

Status: well, we got ours before all the good press. Before everyone realized how great a car it is.
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I think you're on point. However, consider this is/was "new technology" and early adopters are always going to be more passionate. The nerds and sycophants were Gen1.
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bonnie said: ?

I'm just wondering how many new owners will stand up and say 'oh yeah, that's me, I totally am not an early adopter'.

This will not go well.
Click to expand...

Actually, you might just have found why this thread may fizzle out...
People won't come forward!
Unless someone starts showing name lists...
>:->
(supposed to be devil grin)

Edit: You've already been proven so right and I so wrong
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artsci said: ?

This is just an intuitive hunch but my reading of posts on this web site and my experience with actual owners suggests a major difference between those of us who were among the early Tesla adopters (2013) and those who came later. Motivation for buying the car and attitudes about Tesla seem to be very different. It's difficult to summarize and gross generalizations are always risky and unfair, but I do think there's a notable difference. Early adopters seem to be more grateful to have the car, less likely to complain, and more interested and supportive of other owners and the Tesla community. Newer owners seem to be more status driven, more likely to complain about service and other matters, more concerned about "luxury" appointments and the like. Of course there are always major exceptions but this is a pattern that seems to hold true.

Opinions? Let the flaming begin
Click to expand...

I would agree with the first half of your thesis but not the second half. As the Model S buyer has become more mainstream, I do think you'll find that buyer is less forgiving of issues and expects the Model S to compete with other brands in similar prices in similar ways.

I'm certainly a newer buyer but I didn't buy the Model S for status the same way I didn't buy the Prius for status. There were a dozen reasons and not one had to do with how I think others will perceive me. One thing I've noticed that comes up more frequently than any other forum I've seen is that it's often said by owners that the Model S is twice or three times as expensive as any car they'd previous purchased. I fit that bill. My previously most expensive car was a car I paid $31K for that had sold for $68K 3 years earlier. The most I'd spent on a brand new car was $50K.

I think the difference you see in supportiveness of newer vs older members here is simply experience. I also see older members far more likely to attack newer members for complaining about lack of storage, lighted vanity mirros, , and the dozens of other odd things that you'd never find missing on a Luxury car that you do on the Model S yet I don't see newer members attacking newer members over these complaints.

The older members have seen, read, and experienced more and are in more of a position to be be helpful even if they're not always so. I wonder if supportiveness and helpfullness could be quantified as a ratio of rep points / duration of membership?
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Roadrunner2013 said: ?

Actually, you might just have found why this thread may fizzle out...
People won't come forward!
Unless someone starts showing name lists...

Click to expand...

Well since we've already started with calling people complainers, status-driven, nerds, sycophants ... I think it probably won't fizzle. But I'd love to be wrong!
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Roadrunner2013 said: ?

Actually, you might just have found why this thread may fizzle out...
People won't come forward!
Unless someone starts showing name lists...
>:->
Click to expand...

Fizzle? I think not
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We had a discussion about this with regards to the X in an unrelated thread recently, and it got pulled out and is now a separate thread: Are Model X buyers still ?

I think you are correct. And my general argument was this: The Tesla Model S is generally now #1 or #2 in the premium sedan category in the US and Europe. It is no longer just a car for early adopters in that niche market. Of course, the car has won nearly every car award imaginable and gotten great coverage in the mainstream auto and tech press, which has brought in a lot of buyers who otherwise wouldn't know about it if they weren't of the early adopter brand.
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Even if it were true in spirit, your data will be polluted by would-be early adopters who haven't purchased yet or purchased only recently due to financial limitations of trying to buy a car that costs half as much as a house (yes, I know some of you west coast folks live in places where houses cost 50 billion dollars each, but back in normal land typical houses go for about $150K-$200K).

This is true for me, I've been a supporter from day 1, but I haven't bought one yet. Looks like I will finally have all the ducks in a row later this year. Been planning on it for years, and is complicated by my decision to support Chevy and the Volt a few years back, as the Volt is depreciating like crazy (trade in currently estimated at $9K for a 2012 model originally listed at over $40K; that's like trading in your 2012 $100K Tesla and getting an offer of around $20K).
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sorka said: ?

Fizzle? I think not
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...I was so very wrong... :redface:
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I'm a new owner and I leased the car.

The thread is kind of insulting. I'm sorry that the early adopters find the newbies to be whinny and entitled.
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This thread makes me sad.

(Model S owner since May 2015, since that seems to be important information. :-()
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I think the break point in types of owners was when the P85D came out. As I posted a few months ago in another thread, the P85D attracted performance-chasers many of whom didn't care about EVs in general or Tesla in particular, they're just attracted to the latest hot car. They will move on the the next hot car, unlike most early Tesla owners who would never buy an ICE again.
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tstafford said: ?

I'm a new owner and I leased the car.

The thread is kind of insulting. I'm sorry that the early adopters find the newbies to be whinny and entitled.
Click to expand...

I'm currently looking for a therapist, since it appears I'm a nerdy sycophant. Want me to look for you, too?
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artsci said: ?

This is just an intuitive hunch but my reading of posts on this web site and my experience with actual owners suggests a major difference between those of us who were among the early Tesla adopters (2013) and those who came later. Motivation for buying the car and attitudes about Tesla seem to be very different. It's difficult to summarize and gross generalizations are always risky and unfair, but I do think there's a notable difference. Early adopters seem to be more grateful to have the car, less likely to complain, and more interested and supportive of other owners and the Tesla community. Newer owners seem to be more status driven, more likely to complain about service and other matters, more concerned about "luxury" appointments and the like. Of course there are always major exceptions but this is a pattern that seems to hold true.
Click to expand...

This is true for just about every innovative product. Your "early adopters" and your "early majority" are a very different target group. Early adopters can live with some flaws/shortcomings and will still LOVE your product, mostly because it's cool and new. The early majority on the other hand expects a product that meets their needs.

In marketing / innovation theory, moving from the early adopter phase to the early majority phase is called "bridging the chasm". This imaginary chasm is where/when products fail. I guess that Tesla (at least the Model S) is currently in a late phase of this stage. They are not exactly mainstream yet (except for Norway, where everyone and their mother drive a Tesla) but it's also no longer the exotic it used to be. The early adoption constraints (small-ish supercharger network, lacking software features) are also more or less solved.

The Fisker Karma never reached this stage.

Image plucked from the net:

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New owner here and I think you're on point Rick. One caveat though, I find many more (not all) of the earlier adopters resistant to change and a little resentful when Tesla acts like a bigger company (which they must do now to survive) than they were a few years ago. On the other side of the coin the earlier adopters are VERY knowledgable and great resources.
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bonnie said: ?

I'm just wondering how many new owners will stand up and say 'oh yeah, that's me, I totally am not an early adopter'.

This will not go well.
Click to expand...

I guess I'll be the first.

I'm not an early adopter of Tesla. I bought my car 6 months ago.

I didn't have the need to upgrade my car 3 years ago (2012), nor did I have the funds then to buy a Tesla, nor did I know of Tesla, nor would I have thought it sane to spend the amount of money I did.

In addition, I would not have sunk that much money into a company which I wasn't sure would succeed. I have no problem spending a few hundred/thousand here and there for toys/gadgets and be an early adopter on that front, but when we're talking about $70k+, sorry, someone that's more established and has more guts will have to lead the way.

That being said, while I give Tesla flack (on the forums) for things that I think the car can improve on, I don't think I fall into the category of "status driven" or about complain about the luxury aspect of it or any other category with a negative connotation to it, I do it because I want to see Tesla succeed.
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In defense of owners like bmah, I can understand and appreciate his or her sadness, AND I am sure there are any number of later-arrivers who are just as enthusiastic of the Tesla experience and forgiving of its foibles as are the Early Adopters. But "any number" is not "all", "most" or even, potentially, "many".

By the way and as an aside, the ONLY definition of "Early Adopter" is "All those who bought the car before me, plus me".

But back to Artsci's first post: your intuition is spot on. Very recently someone who sees between dozens and several dozens of Tesla owners every working day...and has to interact with and be nice to them...told me of that differentiation, using your words almost verbatim. I'll trust that person's observations more than any anecdotal observation we here can provide.
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I've been accused of being on both sides of your dichotomy there, and for me what it boils down to is this: set expectations and then manage to them. In the early days, Tesla set less expectations; now they tend to set more.

The early adopters tend to give Tesla a pass on not having full feature parity with your comparison-of-choice (Mercedes S-class, Hellcat, BMW, whatever), because all we wanted (and were promised) was a working, all-electric car that had an awesome technology edge. We got that! They're absolutely doing that and knocking it out of the park. I'm still one of the most enthusiastic owners you'll find around here despite shaking my head at some crazy decisions.

But there are some pet peeves where Tesla has set expectations and simply missed time and time again. The ever-delayed supercharger map (a/k/a "2014" wish-list in 2013, "2015" wish-list in 2014, "2016" wish-list in 2015, and soon-to-be-published "2017" wish-list in 2016) leaves critical holes that keep me from recommending Tesla cars to people here in the midwest, because *gasp* people drive their families to Florida!! ONE CITY would solve this, and I worked hard to put the city council and business owner in contact with Tesla, they submitted information to the initial inquiry and haven't heard anything but crickets for over a year now.

That's just one example, there are a few of them in my mind and I'm sure there are many others that people really care about.

On the whole, I think they're doing a great job but there are a couple of areas that just make me shake my head.
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I guess with a mid 2014 car I'm right in between. I think there are a fair number of early adopters who have been quite vocal about some of the crummy things Tesla is/has done, and there are a bunch of new folks who have just gotten a Tesla and think its the best thing ever and that Tesla can do no wrong.

Personally I love the car, and since I did a ton of research beforehand I'm not upset about anything about the car. The things I am unhappy with are the way Tesla treats its customers regarding service and repair. I'm also unhappy with some aspects that were unknown when I got the car, and were mis-representanted by Tesla, like the battery degradation.
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I consider myself a bit of both.

I've been following Tesla for quite some time now and I REALLY wanted a Roadster. I was in my early 20s at the time so I could not afford one.

In 2013, I was becoming more and more interested in the S. I drove from Montreal to Toronto just to take a test drive. More time had passed and while I initially thought I could not afford one, the test drive changed me. Lets just say that I had the long drive home (6-7h) to think about how I could afford one. Decided to put a deposit on a X because I wanted AWD (this is another discussion altogether... I don't think it's required to get AWD for winter in Canada but it's just a lot more adapted). Did not have enough money for a SIG so I put the 5K on the production version. Had a very early reservation number (low 200). If I had the money in 2013, I would have bought a S right away (RWD one). In that sense, I considered myself an early adopter.

Now, the X was pushed back and I was sort of happy because I did not have the money yet (we can say I was not ready to make the hard choices!). I also decided I would not downgrade my current vehicle on 2 things : adaptative cruise control and AWD. I did not care about parking sensors (that the S did not have at the time) and other stuff.. But with the huge traffic jams I'm in daily, the adaptative cruise makes a HUGE difference. AWD is especially practical since I have to parallel park in downtown Montreal and when there is snow, well, it's a real mess.

So then came the D announcement with AutoPilot. I immediately ordered a 85D. If it wasn't for some issues during production of my car, I would have been one of the first non-P dual motor car in Montreal.

In that sense, I consider myself a new owner... because I decided to wait for the features I really wanted to be available on the car before buying.

But hey, with all the small things I had to get fixed on my car since I got it 10months ago, I think we can all consider ourselves early adopters : we're driving an EV in a petrol-leading industry, most people I talk to don't know much about EVs, almost half of them never heard of Tesla and they ask me "Who makes them, GM?"... and they've built how many S now? 120K?

I think that 10-15years from now, when I look back at the picture I took of myself and my S during delivery, I will consider myself as someone who took part of the "electric revolution". People will pay 1/3 of the price that we paid for similar range & performance (ok, maybe not performance!) cars... but we had EVs before them.

We are all, early adopters*

* : I don't know when that will change since it will be gradual but I think that within the next 5 years, with most manufacturers having EV in their fleet, having an EV won't be weird like it is right now. At that point, people who buy EVs won't be early adopters...
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I think there is some sort of social scenario playing out here that might not specifically divide by join date.

As a newcomer I'm still trying to figure out the club culture, so far I have no idea how to display laughter.

As with anything else, the culture is alive and it's up to us to carry it. That means it can change, and some people might like it, and others not.
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bonnie said: ?

I'm currently looking for a therapist, since it appears I'm a nerdy sycophant. Want me to look for you, too?
Click to expand...

Please. Let's look for one of those therapists that tries to recreate the birth experience.
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msnow said: ?

New owner here and I think you're on point Rick. One caveat though, I find many more (not all) of the earlier adopters resistant to change and a little resentful when Tesla acts like a bigger company (which they must do now to survive) than they were a few years ago. On the other side of the coin the earlier adopters are VERY knowledgable and great resources.
Click to expand...

Sort of like the advice/discussion I was having with my 9-year old grandson recently. I told him, "You need to listen to me. I have been 9 years old and you have never been 72." I am a 2-week P85 owner and greatly appreciate all the advice I have read from the nerdy old timers on this forum. It's kind of fun to be an early adopter old fart :biggrin:
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nctalkinghead said: ?

"You need to listen to me. I have been 9 years old and you have never been 72."
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[pet peeve]Just because you're older doesn't mean you're smarter[/pet peeve]
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This happens with basically every product. Early adopters are enthusiasts and much more forgiving. As the product gains widespread appeal (assuming it ever does) then you get more picky people. Enthusiasts still buy, but they become a smaller proportion. It's no surprise that it's happening with Tesla too. Consider it to be a sign of success.
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bonnie said: ?

I'm currently looking for a therapist, since it appears I'm a nerdy sycophant. Want me to look for you, too?
Click to expand...

At least now I'll know what to put on my resume.
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I don't see myself fitting neatly into any category. I've been following Elon Musk's career since PayPal. I halfway considered buying a roadster but it simply would not have been responsible at the time. I can VERY close to putting down one of the first deposits on the Model S - literally had my finger on the mouse button the first day they were available. But I decided to hold off, see if the company survived, see if they actually succeeded in making a car, whether it was any good, etc. For the past couple years it's been a foregone conclusion I would get a Model S someday. My wife eventually got tired of hearing me talk about it and told me to just buy the thing. Green light! Took delivery of my 70D in mid-November.

I guess I feel "early" in terms of knowing about and coveting the car, but I'm "new" in terms of actually owning it. Teslas still aren't commonplace in my part of the country, either, so there's still a novelty factor in seeing them, or being seen, around town. I've gotten in parking lot conversations about the car in each of the past two days.

I also think it won't be long until we're all lumped together as "early adopters" once the body style is refreshed, battery capacities increase, and full autonomy is achieved. To the man on the street, all our cars look exactly the same. We're all driving the "first" Model S, sort of like the C1 Corvette or the E30 BMW M3. Classic cars!

But as for "whining" I certainly fall into the camp of people who are surprised Tesla hasn't yet incorporated certain standard features common in much less expensive cars. Stuff like key fob based profile recognition, good nav system, accurate climate control. Sure it's a first world problem, but I can't understand why the seat and steering wheel can't move at the same time while going to my "Exit" profile (never mind the necessity of an exit profile in the first place). Basic stuff from a 10 year-old Acura would be great.

Yet I sure do love the car! It's got a whole bunch of other stuff no other car can touch.
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I find this interesting. I guess I'm a pre-newbie even though I have been online in the TMC world for well over a year and all I have is a VIN and no S yet....

I would just like to hold a "Mirror" up to all of those early adopters, specifically the P85D owners, who have perhaps done more complaining than all others put together and then multiplied by an integer.

Juss sayin'

Duck... incoming...
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I am still waiting for my CPO P85 to come so I guess that makes me a newbie. I do have high expectations of the car and of Tesla, but at the same time I am very grateful for the chance to own the car and a price within what I was willing to spend. I addition, I am also very grateful for the early adopters that suffered and endured through the various growing pains for the Model S, such as DU failures, leaking pano, 12V failures, broken door handles, etc. Thanks to the things learned on those cars, Tesla has been able to rectify many of these so that newbie like me benefit (I mean that sincerely). I'm sure I'll still do my share of complaining, but I complain because I care...
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I bought in 2013 and consider myself an early adopter. However, I am far less forgiving of Tesla's faults today than I was two years ago. I was willing to forgive a lot in 2013 because it was a new product by a new company. However, Tesla has fallen woefully behind in maintaining the vehicle's software, and its regular software updates invariably break something that was previously working. Tesla has shown an unhealthy obsession with acceleration performance at the expense of almost everything else, it seems. As soon as Tesla gets something "good enough" with a minimum feature set, like the navigation system, it seems to forget about it.

Version 7 of the car's operating system was a huge step backwards that left me questioning how decisions are being made at the company. The continued problems with drive units has me wondering the same thing. Elon's demotion of Jerome Guillen as a scapegoat for poor China sales left a bad taste in my mouth, especially when it was Elon's decision, ultimately, to enter markets that he was absolutely unprepared to enter. Witness Hong Kong and the fact that Tesla never bothered to apply for regulatory approval of Autopilot. Now the feature has been pulled by government order.

Current buyers have every right to expect big things from Tesla, not the least of which is quality. I've been noticing that despite Elon's insistence that hundreds of improvements have been made to Model S, I continue to read about the same recurring problems with recent builds that have plagued owners since 2012. I continue to hear about lack of communication from delivery specialists, continued delivery delays and changing of dates, and the continued lack of QC causing some horrendous initial quality problems for a car of this price tag.

It is my opinion that Tesla is unprepared for what may be coming.
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Max* said: ?

[pet peeve]Just because you're older doesn't mean you're smarter[/pet peeve]
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That's right but more experienced.
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ArtInCT said: ?

I would just like to hold a "Mirror" up to all of those early adopters, specifically the P85D owners, who have perhaps done more complaining than all others put together and then multiplied by an integer.
Click to expand...

For what it's worth, your definition of early adopters may be different than others.

As Model S was coming out, someof the Roadster owners on this forum looked down at the newbies who came along with Model S. They were not early adopters, only Roadster purchasers were!

As the "D" owners were coming out, some of the Model S S85/P85 owners on this forum looked down at the newbies who came along with the "D". They were not early adopters, only the 2012/2013 owners were!

As Model X owners are coming out, some of the Model S owners on this forum will look down at the newbies who came along with the Model X. They were not early adopters, only the Model S owners were!

...and so on...
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I think those are some silly and dangerous assumptions to make, almost bordering on elitism The Tesla Model S has been my dream car since it was released, but I never thought I could afford it. Being relatively young, I feel absurdly lucky every time I go into my garage and see my car in there. I am grateful every time I take it out on a trip, and thankful every time the car brings me back home safely.

Regarding status: I don't think the average Tesla owner is going for status. If you want to show off, there are much better options. I like the Model S specifically because it is subtle and blends in much better than most luxury sedans. My neighborhood isn't the nicest of areas (I'm pretty sure I'm the furthest south Tesla owner in San Diego) and I'd prefer not to attract unwanted attention.

Regarding complaints/service: I see absolutely no reason why people shouldn't post complaints about their car having issues. Every car forum I've been a part of encourages users to post those things because a good community is far more helpful than a local dealership will ever be. Trying to silence complaints would only encourage the "Tesla fanboy" stereotype that is so unfortunately prevalent among certain car enthusiasts.

I'm not one of the cool kids, I may never be one of the cool kids, and I don't really care to be one of the cool kids. I'm just here to discuss car stuff, help people out, and occasionally post dank memes. Is that so wrong? :smile:
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FlasherZ said: ?

For what it's worth, your definition of early adopters may be different than others.

As Model S was coming out, someof the Roadster owners on this forum looked down at the newbies who came along with Model S. They were not early adopters, only Roadster purchasers were!

As the "D" owners were coming out, some of the Model S S85/P85 owners on this forum looked down at the newbies who came along with the "D". They were not early adopters, only the 2012/2013 owners were!

As Model X owners are coming out, some of the Model S owners on this forum will look down at the newbies who came along with the Model X. They were not early adopters, only the Model S owners were!

...and so on...
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Kind of reminds me of the immigration patterns in the US....

This is a good point and from a good perspective. Thanks.
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You're all Johnny-come-latelys, from Jenny's perspective...
.
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I'm a new comer (got mine in May), but I'm a full blown Tesla Evangelist. I'm extremely willing to look over several things while they are still growing and becoming a bigger company.

I have major respect for the early adopters.

I guess I'll categorize myself as follows:

- I bought as a new owner, I'm young and a millenial. However, I'm extremely grateful and would rather blend in than show off (in fact, it was a major consideration against buying one)
- Saying the above, I'd say I have the mindset of an early adopter, however....
- I don't have the guts of the early adopters
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The real newbies won't even bother to find and join this forum.
I think that anyone who is here is still an "early adopter".
We'll know Tesla is mainstream when people just buy the car, use it, and don't obsess over it on this forum.
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I think the biggest factor is confirmation bias -- once you form the opinion that the early owners were more helpful and understanding, you'll be able to reject the posts of older members that are unhappy and new members who are rabid supporters easily. Another factor is that people whose interest remains high enough to continue to post regularly several years later are indeed probably more supportive than the average owner from that time period, distorting your perceptions. Finally, there is just something of a numbers game at work. As the user base grows, it is impossible (or at least difficult) to maintain that same sense of community. It also means you're eventually going to attract obnoxious people like me by the law of averages. :tongue:
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mspohr said: ?

The real newbies won't even bother to find and join this forum.
I think that anyone who is here is still an "early adopter".
We'll know Tesla is mainstream when people just buy the car, use it, and don't obsess over it on this forum.
Click to expand...

Great point!
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As owner of approximately #60,000 of the Model S series, out of tens of millions of cars on the road in this country, and the 2nd in my neighborhood, I feel like and would like to be seen as an early adopter. It's part of the charge I get out of owning and driving the car. So, I partly understand those really early adopters having a special sense about themselves as I imagine I would. I wish I'd known about the company and car earlier.

Also, my daughter just got engaged so I'm really glad I bought in 2015 as I'm beginning to display serious penny-pinching tendencies.
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AmpedRealtor said: ?

I bought in 2013 and consider myself an early adopter. However, I am far less forgiving of Tesla's faults today than I was two years ago. I was willing to forgive a lot in 2013 because it was a new product by a new company. However, Tesla has fallen woefully behind in maintaining the vehicle's software, and its regular software updates invariably break something that was previously working. Tesla has shown an unhealthy obsession with acceleration performance at the expense of almost everything else, it seems. As soon as Tesla gets something "good enough" with a minimum feature set, like the navigation system, it seems to forget about it.

Version 7 of the car's operating system was a huge step backwards that left me questioning how decisions are being made at the company. The continued problems with drive units has me wondering the same thing. Elon's demotion of Jerome Guillen as a scapegoat for poor China sales left a bad taste in my mouth, especially when it was Elon's decision, ultimately, to enter markets that he was absolutely unprepared to enter. Witness Hong Kong and the fact that Tesla never bothered to apply for regulatory approval of Autopilot. Now the feature has been pulled by government order.

Current buyers have every right to expect big things from Tesla, not the least of which is quality. I've been noticing that despite Elon's insistence that hundreds of improvements have been made to Model S, I continue to read about the same recurring problems with recent builds that have plagued owners since 2012. I continue to hear about lack of communication from delivery specialists, continued delivery delays and changing of dates, and the continued lack of QC causing some horrendous initial quality problems for a car of this price tag.

It is my opinion that Tesla is unprepared for what may be coming.
Click to expand...

I'm of the same vintage (bought a P85 in 2013, then one of the first P85Ds in 2014) and I really can't say it better than AmpedRealtor. At this point, as much as I like our P85D (with warts and all), I don't know whether we'd buy another Tesla. I have no problems with ICE vehicles and there are a lot of compelling alternatives at this price point. I don't care about status (I live in an area that is littered with Teslas...just yesterday I saw two Model X's at the gym parking lot, so I'm not sure whether a Tesla is a status symbol in my neck of the woods) or even cutting edge tech. I care about functionality, value, performance, convenience and reliability. I like not having to go to gas stations, but I'm spending a lot more time waiting at superchargers (I drive to Sacramento and LA quite a bit, so I'm one of the folks who use superchargers regularly, but not as a replacement for overnight charging). Like AmpedRealtor, I don't think Tesla is prepared for what is coming and with that, the benefits of being a Tesla owner may diminish.
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I agree with Flasher. I think much of the sense of an initial tight-nit community had to do with the very small numbers of owners in the early days. Everyone knew each other. Same thing in the Leaf community and in their forum. Now I see Leafs everywhere, and for most, the car is just a car. Most new Tesla owners I encounter now days don't even know about our forum, so I always recommend checking it out.

By the way, I always felt that the Roadster owners were always very willing to share their knowledge; like Bonnie, they have almost all been mentors, and have spent countless hour educating the rest of us. Thanks guys (and gals!)
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mspohr said: ?

The real newbies won't even bother to find and join this forum.
I think that anyone who is here is still an "early adopter".
We'll know Tesla is mainstream when people just buy the car, use it, and don't obsess over it on this forum.
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True.
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Jool said: ?

I think those are some silly and dangerous assumptions to make, almost bordering on elitism The Tesla Model S has been my dream car since it was released, but I never thought I could afford it. Being relatively young, I feel absurdly lucky every time I go into my garage and see my car in there. I am grateful every time I take it out on a trip, and thankful every time the car brings me back home safely.
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This is me exactly. Delivery 12/29/15. My "Tesla grin" happens every morning when I go to the garage and see the car's still there and it wasn't a dream. Doesn't give Tesla a free pass for quality issues, but in my part of the world I'm an early adopter (nearest Supercharger is about 150 km away and nearest Service Centre is about 1800 km away) and willing to live with some oddities and inconveniences for the pleasure of being on the forefront (maybe not the bleeding edge) of new automotive tech.
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I am a newer owner as well, with 6 months under my belt. However I am a full fledged Tesla evangelist, willing to talk to anyone at any time about the car. Is it perfect?, not by any means. I do still consider myself to be an early adopter of electric vehicles in general and have been willing to give Tesla the benefit of the doubt over many imperfections. My car has been an absolute joy to drive and I have had no significant issues with it at all. I do think that as Tesla aspires to be a mass market manufacturer (model 3) they will find new owners much less forgiving and will need to be sure they produce a consistently reliable vehicle with good technical support and maintenance. I love the car and want to drive it for many more years.
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I think by you starting this thread letting everyone know you are an early adaptor tells me you are trying to elevate your status and lean towards an elitism mentality.

I've personally just bought a model s and it has nothing to do with elitism I'll tell you that. I wanted my family riding in a very safe car.
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Skotty said: ?

Even if it were true in spirit, your data will be polluted by would-be early adopters who haven't purchased yet or purchased only recently due to financial limitations of trying to buy a car that costs half as much as a house (yes, I know some of you west coast folks live in places where houses cost 50 billion dollars each, but back in normal land typical houses go for about $150K-$200K). ...
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+1. The only Model S I can afford right now is the Hot Wheels edition! :frown:
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I'm a new owner (1 month) and while I agree with your statement, I see it from the other side obviously. I came on these forums originally and was surprised at the complete lack of objectivity from the "early adopters." In general the attitude seemed to be (this is sweeping and meant to be over the top):

ICEV's by definition are pieces of crap, and the Model S is perfect.

The Model S is the fastest car ever. This is proven by random videos of it beating certain supercars in very limited circumstances (quarter mile). Then when anyone brings up the obvious, like what happens after 100mph, or what happens when you decide to turn, or what happens when it's below 90% state of charge, they fall back to the "EV family sedan" position, where it doesn't matter if it loses because the fact that it's even being compared to a supercar proves it's the best car ever. Or my favorite, the areas in which the Tesla doesn't excel likely involve driving at illegal speeds or in dangerous ways, so they don't count or matter.

The company is young, so problem X Y and Z don't matter, are understandable, should be given a pass, etc. This makes sense if you're buying some of the first cars ever built, but when you're #100,000 you expect the issues of three years ago to be figured out.

The interior is great, and anyone who says otherwise is a prick. Anyone who mentions the lack of cup holders, seat pockets, door pockets, cheap vanity mirrors, underwhelming material quality, or rattles/buzzes/build quality issues is just nitpicking.

The problems with the car don't matter because Tesla's service is so great. Except that it isn't anymore. Rangers are gone. Wait times to get in to a service center can be a month out. A lot of people are getting non-Tesla loaner cars. And don't even get me started on why people shouldn't have to bring their cars in for service in the first place because these issues ARE NOT NEW!

The car has no maintenance and will last forever, more proof it's the best thing since sliced bread. Except it does, and people pay $600 a year for it. And it's a bit odd that some owners are on their 4th and 5th drive units for a car that only has a handful of moving parts that last "forever."

I could keep going, but you get the idea . I love my car, I think Tesla is great, and EV's are the way forward. I applaud what Tesla has done, and I think they will truly change the world. But that doesn't mean when my car has 10 minor issues within the first 3 weeks of ownership I should pretend they don't exist or pretend the car is perfect. I'm sorry if that makes me one of those ungrateful entitled people who are ruining your forums now. :tongue:

Now to be fair, the extreme on the other side is just as bad, and when I see ridiculous threads like "MY SEAT HEATERS ARE USELESS!!!!!" or "WORST X Y Z EVER" I can't help but laugh. There exists a happy medium where people are REASONABLE and OBJECTIVE regardless of when they bought their car. It would be awesome if we could all work towards that a bit more .
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artsci said: ?

This is just an intuitive hunch but my reading of posts on this web site and my experience with actual owners suggests a major difference between those of us who were among the early Tesla adopters (2013) and those who came later. Motivation for buying the car and attitudes about Tesla seem to be very different. It's difficult to summarize and gross generalizations are always risky and unfair, but I do think there's a notable difference. Early adopters seem to be more grateful to have the car, less likely to complain, and more interested and supportive of other owners and the Tesla community. Newer owners seem to be more status driven, more likely to complain about service and other matters, more concerned about "luxury" appointments and the like. Of course there are always major exceptions but this is a pattern that seems to hold true.

Opinions? Let the flaming begin
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You could be right.

The other thing I have noticed is that some new owners look down on early adopters for not having autopilot or dual motors, I don't remember ever seeing early adopters looking down on models without certain features or options.

Maybe we did, and maybe just the community is much larger now so that's the reason.

Then again, Tesla have also changed in the last few years. Change is I guess always changing [emoji3]
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I consider myself a little bit of both. I lurked for quite sometime before joining. Received delivery in early 2014 before autopilot hardware, but after increases in things like Extended Service Contract and such.

I'm thankful for the early buyers as I cancelled my order 3 times before finally committing and if it weren't for the early people dealing with the issues, I'm not sure I could get over the mental block of the cost and the perceived "risk" at the time.

It's still the best car ever, but I find it disappointing that I still see so many similar challenges that I wish/hoped Tesla as a company would have improved on by now. I just read about a Model X delivery that had a number of the similar issues I had with my Model S. When someone buys the car they shouldn't plan delivery before a quarter end or year end for concern of quality issues. I saw something similar with a recently delivered P90D which has been in the shop as many times as the owner has driven it.

Just makes me more worried about what might creep up when I'm out of warranty. I hope to own the car for 10+ years and 200k+ miles, because it's the best car ever. So I think I'm a little whinny because I'm still worried about the "newness".
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I can only speak for myself. I took delivery of my 85D just a few weeks ago. I would never for even a fraction of a second have considered spending $90k on any other vehicle. I did it for the following reasons:

1) I believe in Elon's vision, and I want to support the man who one day will be seen as the person who, through sheer force of will, broke the Unites States free from oil dependency.
2) I love the idea of significantly reducing my carbon footprint.
3) I was in the midst of going through a divorce, suddenly realized I could spend my money however I wanted, and decided to do something really nice for myself.
4) The rebates and being able to write off the monthly lease as a business owner made the monthly payment much more reasonable. I still could have afforded it, but I wouldn't have let myself do it.

The decision certainly had nothing to do with status. Honestly, despite the price tag, I still don't think the Model S conveys the same sense of elite status as other vehicles. And that's a plus. If I wanted status, I'd have bought a Maserati. If I wanted maximum luxury, I'd have purchased a BMW 7 series or a Mercedes S-Class. If I wanted pure sport, I'd have purchased a new Z06.

Only Tesla could have inspired me to hand over $90k. My previous car was a 2012 Hyundai Sonata purchased new for $27k. In that sense, I would consider myself an early adopter. But you're damn right I expect my $90k vehicle to work. I can live without the ultra-premium interior or the swinger status. But the door handles sure as hell better work, the hood better latch, and I sure as hell better not get wet in a rainstorm. I'm willing to accept whatever that makes me.
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bonnie said: ?

I'm just wondering how many new owners will stand up and say 'oh yeah, that's me, I totally am not an early adopter'.

This will not go well.
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That is totally me! New owner, Oct/Nov 2015. Ok, I'm cheating, wife is the new owner...:wink:

Formerly BMWs only. Wife hates Audis. Can't stand the MB dealership. Got pissed off at the BMW corporate for trying to sell me services I didn't need.

I never bought the newest model cars, always waited for the new model configuration to work out the kinks. Looked that way with the Model S. Besides wanted the autopilot, and the fact that Tesla upgrades software tipped it for me.

Now will not go back to ICE. Waiting for you early adopters (Thanks Bonnie for great info on the X) to figure out the bugs on the X before I buy (and yes, I like to test drive before I plunk down the cash...).

Funny thing, I sense my wife is becoming a Tesla Fan-girl. Last time I mentioned some negative post on the forum, she was almost livid!
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artsci said: ?

This is just an intuitive hunch but my reading of posts on this web site and my experience with actual owners suggests a major difference between those of us who were among the early Tesla adopters (2013) and those who came later.
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Great topic and very true in my opinion. (Mine: Australian P85D, delivered August 2015).

I have been following Tesla since the Roadster - the first *desirable* electric car IMO.

I bought my Tesla because it is:
- desirable as a car
- looks like a car and not a weird greenie fashion statement
- is actually usable as a primary car (decent range, size, performance and comfort)

I did not buy my car because I was a fanboi. I am therefore far less forgiving and far more cognisant of the flaws of the car and the company.

benf said: ?

I'm a new owner (1 month) and while I agree with your statement, I see it from the other side obviously. I came on these forums originally and was surprised at the complete lack of objectivity from the "early adopters."
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Tesla as a company has made many, many mistakes.
The car is not perfect. The company is not perfect.
It used to be that the slightest critique of Tesla here resulted in a hail of "why don't you just sell the car and buy a stinky ICE" replies. Fortunately, that attitude seems to be changing.
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While I'm a new owner, I've been following Tesla since the early days of the Roadster. What they've accomplished is amazing, what they still haven't yet accomplished is equally amazing. What I mean is, the quarterly quality issues, the ridiculous service time waits, asking brand new owners to hand their cars right back because of issue number one, are just as unacceptable as Tesla is impressive in getting this far.

The reality is, Tesla has moved past the early adopter phase. It simply has. The people buying the cars now, whatever their reasons may be, aren't looking for the early adopter experience. Tesla MUST address this before the big boys see the light and start to move away from fossil fuel based cars\trucks.

Now for the part that'll ruffle some feathers... It is absurd to deliver a car to someone with the flaws that we see all the time here, and we all know we aren't talking about isolated events. Are all cars off the line in need of post delivery QC fixes? No, but the fact that we all know how Q end goes should be alarming but it's brushed under the rug by many members here for various reasons. You won't find many people here who have bad things to say about Tesla as a company, but it's not hard to find people here who are frustrated and disappointed with their experience. That must be addressed. Given that it hasn't yet, I think Tesla is in serious need of an upper management shake up and whatever role Elon is playing needs to change. For one whoever is in charge of the QC team needs to be fired, not tomorrow, not yesterday, but now. Whatever systemic issues exist within that team, it's staff, it's budget, it's processes, whatever, needs to be fixed along with a change in management. Tesla needs to invest serious dollars into their service department as well, some of the wait times are so far from acceptable that I have to sometimes do a double take with regards to some of the service wait time posts here. I cannot understand how some of you can continually gloss over, and push under the rug on a consistent basis just how poor Tesla's service department and QC processes are???...

Tesla has accomplished so much in such a short amount of time and they are to be commended for doing so. I love my car but the reality is people have had the wool pulled over their eyes because the car is so awesome that it's caused them to go totally brain dead when it comes to everything else. Tesla has the luxury of being able to get away with all of this now, there simply is no other competitor. That won't always be the case...

Jeff
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jimmy82abn said: ?

I think by you starting this thread letting everyone know you are an early adaptor tells me you are trying to elevate your status and lean towards an elitism mentality.

I've personally just bought a model s and it has nothing to do with elitism I'll tell you that. I wanted my family riding in a very safe car.
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If you're talking about the OP @artsci you couldn't be more wrong. End of story!!
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jimmy82abn said: ?

I think by you starting this thread letting everyone know you are an early adaptor tells me you are trying to elevate your status and lean towards an elitism mentality.
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Only people with inferiority complexes say things like this.
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From what I've read on the forum, I'm happy I'm not an early adopter.
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jeffro01 said: ?

While I'm a new owner, I've been following Tesla since the early days of the Roadster. What they've accomplished is amazing, what they still haven't yet accomplished is equally amazing. What I mean is, the quarterly quality issues, the ridiculous service time waits, asking brand new owners to hand their cars right back because of issue number one, are just as unacceptable as Tesla is impressive in getting this far.

The reality is, Tesla has moved past the early adopter phase. It simply has. The people buying the cars now, whatever their reasons may be, aren't looking for the early adopter experience. Tesla MUST address this before the big boys see the light and start to move away from fossil fuel based cars\trucks.

Now for the part that'll ruffle some feathers... It is absurd to deliver a car to someone with the flaws that we see all the time here, and we all know we aren't talking about isolated events. Are all cars off the line in need of post delivery QC fixes? No, but the fact that we all know how Q end goes should be alarming but it's brushed under the rug by many members here for various reasons. You won't find many people here who have bad things to say about Tesla as a company, but it's not hard to find people here who are frustrated and disappointed with their experience. That must be addressed. Given that it hasn't yet, I think Tesla is in serious need of an upper management shake up and whatever role Elon is playing needs to change. For one whoever is in charge of the QC team needs to be fired, not tomorrow, not yesterday, but now. Whatever systemic issues exist within that team, it's staff, it's budget, it's processes, whatever, needs to be fixed along with a change in management. Tesla needs to invest serious dollars into their service department as well, some of the wait times are so far from acceptable that I have to sometimes do a double take with regards to some of the service wait time posts here. I cannot understand how some of you can continually gloss over, and push under the rug on a consistent basis just how poor Tesla's service department and QC processes are???...

Tesla has accomplished so much in such a short amount of time and they are to be commended for doing so. I love my car but the reality is people have had the wool pulled over their eyes because the car is so awesome that it's caused them to go totally brain dead when it comes to everything else. Tesla has the luxury of being able to get away with all of this now, there simply is no other competitor. That won't always be the case...

Jeff
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+100!!!! Well said! I am in complete agreement. Elon Musk is a good visionary, but he's not a very good manager judging by what's happening at Tesla. Maybe it's time to bring in someone with more experience to manage Tesla's day-to-day operations.

Apple is in desperate need of a visionary and Tesla is in desperate need of a manager. I suggest a swap. Elon Musk and Tim Cook should switch places. Both companies would improve.
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I leased a Volt for 3 years (starting before Tesla was shipping Model S except for a few founders vehicles). I then bought a CPO Model S with a low VIN number. Does that make me early or late?

I do get told that my non-AP car is "quaint" and "classic" by some of the new guys.
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AmpedRealtor said: ?

+100!!!! Well said! I am in complete agreement. Elon Musk is a good visionary, but he's not a very good manager judging by what's happening at Tesla. Maybe it's time to bring in someone with more experience to manage Tesla's day-to-day operations.
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Agree with both you and jeffro01 except the shareholders love Elon, the analysts trust and adore him, I'm a huge admirer and stockholder too. But most of the problems are related to management and Tesla needs a professional management person to head this up and fix things. Separate the Chairman and CEO roles.
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msnow said: ?

Agree with both you and jeffro01 except the shareholders love Elon, the analysts trust and adore him, I'm a huge admirer and stockholder too. But most of the problems are related to management and Tesla needs a professional management person to head this up and fix things. Separate the Chairman and CEO roles.
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Tesla needs a Tim Cook while Apple needs an Elon Musk
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^ yep.
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Drucifer said: ?

I do get told that my non-AP car is "quaint" and "classic" by some of the new guys.
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When dealing in purchases at the dollar amounts we're talking about, whether new or used, you tend to start to skew towards certain personality types... It's just the nature of buying "expensive" things... There are plenty of classy, respectful, quiet, and reserved owners who happen to not be poor... But then you get "that guy" who wants the world to know they are special and better than you...

It sort of comes with the territory and the rude, disrespectful, and condescending types stick out far more...

Jeff

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msnow said: ?

Agree with both you and jeffro01 except the shareholders love Elon, the analysts trust and adore him, I'm a huge admirer and stockholder too. But most of the problems are related to management and Tesla needs a professional management person to head this up and fix things. Separate the Chairman and CEO roles.
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Agreed. It's a very fine line, but there will come a time where the Elon that built the company will be the Elon that begins to adversely affect it's future. We may already be at that tipping point, it's very hard to say.

Jeff

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AmpedRealtor said: ?

Tesla needs a Tim Cook while Apple needs an Elon Musk
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Exactly, spot on comment.

Jeff
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I've had my MS for about 30 days. No quality issues at all with the vehicle. A couple years ago I purchased a Jeep Grand Cherokee and Ford Fusion. Both have been in for quality issues during the first 30 days and recalls and other quality issues almost every six months since. Thus far my Tesla has shown much higher quality than these other two vehicles.

If I have any complaints, they are not directly Tesla related but features I wish my Tesla had that some, but not all, of my other ICE vehicles have. For example, separate volume settings for each input so when you switch from my phone to the radio for example, the sound isn't blasting. The navigation system and voice commands in my other ICE vehicles have more features. It would be nice to see Tesla catch up in these areas, and they should, since they are all software related.

Otherwise, I am a very happy Tesla owner and look forward to regular software updates that will enhance my MS. BTW, AutoPilot rocks! I use it all the time!
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The reponses are fascinating. This is the kind of dialogue I had hoped to start.

As for charges of me being elitist, anyone who knows me would beg to differ. But I can understand why someone might see it that way. Now and then TMC gets pretty boring and repetitive. I was just hoping to stir things up a bit
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artsci said: ?

The reponses are fascinating. This is the kind of dialogue I had hoped to start.

As for charges of me being elitist, anyone who knows me would beg to differ. But I can understand why someone might see it that way. Now and then TMC gets pretty boring and repetitive. I was just hoping to stir things up a bit
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Mission accomplished! [emoji3]
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Agreed
Rule number one to a successful business is residual business.
Not talk of early adapter vs new owner.
Great you owned the first iPhone. I'll overnight you some cookies.

Now go forward and prove to everyone you had the first iphone.
Elitism 101

I'm an android kid personally and I prefer open source, free thinking and innovative design.

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Fact is, I don't know none of y'all yet you are going out of your way to distance yourself from us new owners when we are the ones bringing new money to a company that is in start up mode still.

So you think Verizon customers would just be "ok" with buying a new smartphone just to return it 10 days later?

No they would leave and try something else.
I respect tesla for carving out this company from thin air but after years of operating I expect show level quality.
That's it, Zero Emissions, Zero COMPROMISES!!!
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There are two types of people on the world...
1. those who divide the world into two types of people, and 2. the rest of us.
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mikeash said: ?

This happens with basically every product. Early adopters are enthusiasts and much more forgiving. As the product gains widespread appeal (assuming it ever does) then you get more picky people. Enthusiasts still buy, but they become a smaller proportion. It's no surprise that it's happening with Tesla too. Consider it to be a sign of success.
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^ This! I couldn't agree more.

Also, I don't understand why the OP has to place Tesla owners into 2 groups. As membership to this forum grows, so does the diversity of opinions. For what it's worth, I am a proud owner for 2 weeks now, but have been following Tesla ever since I read an article about them in 2010. Expressing likes and dislikes about the Model S is no different than what owners of other luxury auto brands say about their vehicles in their respective forums.
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I guess I'd be surprised if there weren't some difference in perspective between the earliest adopters, people who ordered on faith, and the rest of us. But whether the difference is what the OP suggests, or is less black and white than he suggests, I really can't say. And I agree with FloridaGary that it might not be too useful (or fair) to suggest a dichotomy. As in other areas, there is no doubt a wide variety of views, experiences, personalities, etc., among us.
What's that old saying? That the world would be pretty boring if we were all the same...?
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It's tough to say because when it really comes down to it we're ALL early adopters even those buying today.

The inescapable fact is the car has caveats that come with it. It's definitely true there are way less caveats today than there was yesterday. The caveats act as a resistance to buying.

I got on board because as a combo the early adopters and Tesla lowered the resistance. The two driving factors for me was the superchargers, and the resale guarantee. There were also all kinds of issues that I saw with the car (while I was fence sitting) that early adopters talked about. From my recollection Tesla corrected every single one that was on my list of "deal-breakers". I definitely appreciate the Early-adopters because they dealt with those things, and I'm extremely thankful of them.

There is the natural progression from early-adopters who are more willing to deal with issues to people who just want something to work. I tend to be someone who is a little bit of both. I do complain a lot, but I do so out of love for something. It's that whole love/hate kind of thing.

As to motivations mine have a lot to do with Alternative Vehicles, Autonomous driving, etc. The Tesla was the perfect merging of my love of Automobiles, and my love of technology.

If I cared about status I wouldn't have gotten it. I'm not sure why anyone who wanted status would buy any car that had such a large differential in terms of price between the low end and the high end without looking any different. The only other car that I know that has that is a 911, but a 911 is a drivers car. It's meant to be driven without too much flash.

I should add that I absolutely know that a lot of you really early adopters made bank on Tesla stock. So in no shape or form do I think the Tesla "experience" has been a hardship.
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This has been a fascinating thread, thankfully with little true flaming or personal attacks. I think we are all in agreement with how awesome the car is. We disagree over how Tesla should improve the areas of concern. I would never have dreamed of spending this much on any other car. I sold a 2012 Camry Hybid for which I paid $30k when I bought my model S. I never really had the desire to own a MB, BMW, Audi, or other "luxury" car because I did not see what extra value those vehicles would give me to justify the cost. I have had zero regret with spending $90K+ on the Tesla because I also believe that EV's are vital to break our dependence on oil, and to slow climate change. Also it is the most fun car I have ever driven.

All that said, Tesla does need to get its act together in terms of quality control, service capacity and customer relations if it truly aspires to becoming a mass marketing success. I sincerely hope they are able to do this, because I never want to buy another ICE.
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I think OP meant well, he isn't trying to divide anyone. The undercurrent to what he said is absolutely true. Most of the people who bought early were more forgiving of Tesla's failings. If I were buying today I would be much less forgiving because Tesla should be past its early teething stage. My expectations would be higher. That's not a divisive message, that's the truth.
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Skotty said: ?

Even if it were true in spirit, your data will be polluted by would-be early adopters who haven't purchased yet or purchased only recently due to financial limitations of trying to buy a car that costs half as much as a house (yes, I know some of you west coast folks live in places where houses cost 50 billion dollars each, but back in normal land typical houses go for about $150K-$200K).
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I think this is spot on and certainly true for me. I read the white paper on the battery tech before the roadster came out and have been on the mailing list since 2006. I received about 4 phone calls from the company asking if I wanted to buy a roadster. If I could have possibly found the cash, I would have. I also would have eagerly bought the first Model S off the line if I could have. After years of waiting, I could finally afford to buy one just recently. My car had rock chips all over the front from transport, but I took delivery anyway and the chips are still there. They are going to fix them, but I don't really care. They will just come back. I've had the car less than a month and it has 5,000 miles on it. I wave at every Tesla I see on the road. If something breaks, I will look forward to the better loaner car they give me. I am incredibly grateful that such a thing exists and that I have the means to own it. I wish it was time to drive home already.
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My complaints with Tesla mostly have to do with software that has had 4 years to improve, which appear to be moving at a glacial pace, especially compared to the silicon valley company Tesla claims to be. But expectations are that they've sorted out all the quirks about the car by now, even if the original effort was lacking. There are still a lot of quirks. A lot of common complaints, a lot of stuff that's clearly not as good as it could be.

The counter argument is they've been focused on making cars. Well the team of software devs working on the software aren't assembling cars by hand. Their software validation times for updates do exist also seem to take more than 6 months (i.e. the time Elon knows it works to the time all cars have it) I'm getting reasonably afraid that Model 3 will come out with an entirely new software architecture, which will not backport to Model S, and I'll have the same situation I had with BMW - car looks new, but software is from a different century, and will stay that way.
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rcarpen22 said: ?

I think this is spot on and certainly true for me. I read the white paper on the battery tech before the roadster came out and have been on the mailing list since 2006. I received about 4 phone calls from the company asking if I wanted to buy a roadster. If I could have possibly found the cash, I would have. I also would have eagerly bought the first Model S off the line if I could have. After years of waiting, I could finally afford to buy one just recently. My car had rock chips all over the front from transport, but I took delivery anyway and the chips are still there. They are going to fix them, but I don't really care. They will just come back. I've had the car less than a month and it has 5,000 miles on it. I wave at every Tesla I see on the road. If something breaks, I will look forward to the better loaner car they give me. I am incredibly grateful that such a thing exists and that I have the means to own it. I wish it was time to drive home already.
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Good positive post. Off topic; you mentioned that you wave at every Tesla on the road. As a newer owner when I got my car I waved and flashed my lights at every Tesla but quickly found that 8 out of 10 didn't reciprocate. What's up with that? As a former 911 owner I can tell you that's still a "thing" and I understood Tesla was the same way but I haven't found that to be true.
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I know! I came from Porsches as well and I am used to getting lots of waves. Most Tesla drivers wave back, but not all of them.
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rcarpen22 said: ?

I know! I came from Porsches as well and I am used to getting lots of waves. Most Tesla drivers wave back, but not all of them.
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Former Miata owner here, really miss waving at people and having them wave back.

I waved at the old guy driving a silver Tesla near my usual grocery lot, but he just looked at me like I'm crazy :frown:
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Just checking on the definition of an "early adopter"

I would suppose that someone who had an EV before Tesla are already an early adopter.
Tesla is starting to attract customers who want the car on its own merits, not just because its an EV.
Many of those things have been mentioned in other threads which could be attributed to that "early majority".
They don't care about :
If its an EVSE or a charger
If its a cable or a hose
If they are filling up or charging
If its a filler cap or charge port
If charging to 80% is better for the battery or not
How many watts per mile they get
If the brake pedal uses regen or friction brakes
Talking to other owners while filling up
etc etc

As others have said, they want a car that does what it says on the tin without extra bugs.
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No smug here, move along.
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When I get my S you can be Darned certain that if I see YOU in YOUR S I will flash my brights at you, double click twice quick.
That is how I plan on rollin'.
Worked back in the 60's and 70's with Austin Healeys and BMW's.
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ArtInCT said: ?

When I get my S you can be Darned certain that if I see YOU in YOUR S I will flash my brights at you, double click twice quick.
That is how I plan on rollin'.
Worked back in the 60's and 70's with Austin Healeys and BMW's.
Click to expand...

You're 3,000 miles away but I'm looking forward to it!!!
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Actually, this isn't a "Tesla" thing - its a "first kid on the block to get the new toy" thing. I see it in other car forums EVERY SINGLE TIME a new car is introduced from a manufacturer. Everyone is super excited at first and then, well, reality kicks in. The problems start to show up. The Christmas Morning syndrome starts to wear off, etc. I actually see a trend (in all of these car forums) where the "early" buyers get bored (they are , after all, no longer the only kid on the block) and pick up another newer model...you know like folks trade up to get dual motor, autopilot, etc. At the end of the day, the Model S is a car...not a cause...which is undoubtedly why it is like most other car forums on here. Flame away!
�

cab said: ?

Actually, this isn't a "Tesla" thing - its a "first kid on the block to get the new toy" thing. I see it in other car forums EVERY SINGLE TIME a new car is introduced from a manufacturer. Everyone is super excited at first and then, well, reality kicks in. The problems start to show up. The Christmas Morning syndrome starts to wear off, etc. I actually see a trend (in all of these car forums) where the "early" buyers get bored (they are , after all, no longer the only kid on the block) and pick up another newer model...you know like folks trade up to get dual motor, autopilot, etc. At the end of the day, the Model S is a car...not a cause...which is undoubtedly why it is like most other car forums on here. Flame away!
Click to expand...

hmm, still X mas morning for me...> 3 years later...
cause not a car
..7th set of tires going on today (43k miles!) :tongue:

..AWD/ AP is a bit boring
�

xxx
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Zextraterrestrial said: ?

hmm, still X mas morning for me...> 3 years later...
cause not a car
..7th set of tires going on today (43k miles!) :tongue:

..AWD/ AP is a bit boring
Click to expand...

Same here - not bored - not trading up.
I never expected perfection. On my 3rd drive unit - never failed - just a bit noisy.
Waited >2 years for backup lines - UI still a bit buggy but just more to look forward to when they add something else.
Maybe I'm too forgiving...I just love my car.
�

We received our Tesla in May 2014. VIN a little over 40,000. Anyway, here in California the DMV issues license plates sequentially in ascending NLLLNNN order. The earliest purchasers received license plates with a "6" as the initial digit followed by the three letter sequence at the tail end of the alphabet. The plates kicked into the "7" series around April 2013, and our car's plate is 7FRS---. Cars purchased in the last month or so of 2015 now are receiving plates with the 7N sequence. So, it is pretty easy to extrapolate how long a driver has owned his Tesla in California by the license plate.

I have Supercharged about 150 times in 18 months, mostly around the state, but also on some road trips out-of-state. Early in my ownership, owners that I encountered at the California Superchargers were enthusiastic about their car and wanted to talk. I thought it was a great way to meet new people, share stories and ideas, and just while away the time. I met some really neat people--perhaps one or two of you! I have noticed that recently with the explosion of Teslas here, the newer owners (based upon license plate) don't even bother to acknowledge anyone else. They stay locked in their car or plug in and vamoose. No smiles or waves or nods or anything! Yet the "earlier" owners still have that camaraderie. Maybe this is coincidental, but most of the newer owners appeared to be 30-45, while 18 months ago most appeared slightly to much older. I am 62.

Curiously at Superchargers away from California, it is like old times when I met fellow owners, regardless of age.
�

Happy as well!! Not bored.. I love my car.. Always fun to drive and still on the honeymoon!! Going on 3 years driving. Almost 80K miles. I am awaiting the SDK and more apps that add to the experience. Its taking them some time on the SDK..
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cab said: ?

The Christmas Morning syndrome starts to wear off
Click to expand...

You haven't driven a Roadster, have you?
�

I do not agree with you.

Tesla, the Roadster, the Model S & X are most certainly a cause!

cab said: ?

Actually, this isn't a "Tesla" thing - its a "first kid on the block to get the new toy" thing. I see it in other car forums EVERY SINGLE TIME a new car is introduced from a manufacturer. Everyone is super excited at first and then, well, reality kicks in. The problems start to show up. The Christmas Morning syndrome starts to wear off, etc. I actually see a trend (in all of these car forums) where the "early" buyers get bored (they are , after all, no longer the only kid on the block) and pick up another newer model...you know like folks trade up to get dual motor, autopilot, etc. At the end of the day, the Model S is a car...not a cause...which is undoubtedly why it is like most other car forums on here. Flame away!
Click to expand...

�

Zextraterrestrial said: ?

..AWD/ AP is a bit boring
Click to expand...

If you think being able to outdrag literally every car on the road without getting a ticket for exhibition of speed, sure... boring.
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Jaff said: ?

I do not agree with you.

Tesla, the Roadster, the Model S & X are most certainly a cause!
Click to expand...

I could agree with that.
They are after all part of the secret plan.
However, with each new car and each new advancement we are getting further and further along that plan.
I think what we are seeing is that there are more folks who are less inspired by "the cause" and more by the fact that the cars are speaking for themselves as a valid form of transport.

- - - Updated - - -

Twiglett said: ?

I could agree with that.
They are after all part of the secret plan.
However, with each new car and each new advancement we are getting further and further along that plan.
I think what we are seeing is that there are more folks who are less inspired by "the cause" and more by the fact that the cars are speaking for themselves as a valid form of transport.
Click to expand...

I should point out that personally I bought into the EV cause before owning an EV, then got a Leaf.
So I know what it means to be driving something that only fits its purpose sometimes :biggrin:
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artsci said: ?

This is just an intuitive hunch but my reading of posts on this web site and my experience with actual owners suggests a major difference between those of us who were among the early Tesla adopters (2013)...
Click to expand...

What?!?! Where were you in 2008? You think you were an early adopter?
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hcsharp said: ?

What?!?! Where were you in 2008? You think you were an early adopter?
Click to expand...

Oh I'm laughing now.
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Jool said: ?

Former Miata owner here, really miss waving at people and having them wave back.

I waved at the old guy driving a silver Tesla near my usual grocery lot, but he just looked at me like I'm crazy :frown:
Click to expand...

I had the good fortune to drive one of the original miatas (92) with the retracting lights. Loved it, too bad it couldn't pass emissions, and had to give it up. My bro had a 91 and used to love how all the Miata drivers would wave at each other with the lights, open and close... He loved it. He unfortunately crashed his.
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This thread still makes me sad. Please indulge me for a moment while I expand on this.

I took delivery of my Model S 85D in May 2015. Definitely still considering myself a new owner, although I've been around Teslas since early Roadster days, and I actually worked with Marc Tarpenning and Martin Eberhard (am I allowed to mention them here?) in a prior life.

It's definitely Tesla-land here in the SF Bay Area. Even around here I'll wave to other owners (especially Roadster owners). I always return a wave if I can react fast enough.

I've Supercharged maybe a dozen times. It's a great place to meet other owners...I make it a point (when practical) to walk around and talk to anybody else I see milling around, even though I'm an introvert by nature. This has resulted in several long conversations that caused top-off opportunity charges to turn into range charges.

On the forums here I try to add something constructive when I can, but a lot of you "earlier adopters" are so much more knowledgeable than I am, I often can't add much to a discussion. I do appreciate everything I've learned here so far.

I really like my car and hope "Christmas Morning" never goes away. It's not perfect, neither is the company. I've sent a few suggestions to corporate on various subjects. I'd like to think I've nice to people in service centers, the few times I've needed their expertise thus far.

So in short, I self-identify as a "new owner" who also happens to identify with some of the characteristics of an "early adopter". It sounds like some of you think that a person like me doesn't or can't exist, just because I happened to have owned a great car (yes folks at the end of the day it's just a car) for less time than you have. What's wrong with this?

Thanks for reading.

PS. Others have said this before, but I believe we're *all* early adopters in one way or another.
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bmah said: ?

This thread still makes me sad. Please indulge me for a moment while I expand on this.

I took delivery of my Model S 85D in May 2015. Definitely still considering myself a new owner, although I've been around Teslas since early Roadster days, and I actually worked with Marc Tarpenning and Martin Eberhard (am I allowed to mention them here?) in a prior life.

It's definitely Tesla-land here in the SF Bay Area. Even around here I'll wave to other owners (especially Roadster owners). I always return a wave if I can react fast enough.

I've Supercharged maybe a dozen times. It's a great place to meet other owners...I make it a point (when practical) to walk around and talk to anybody else I see milling around, even though I'm an introvert by nature. This has resulted in several long conversations that caused top-off opportunity charges to turn into range charges.

On the forums here I try to add something constructive when I can, but a lot of you "earlier adopters" are so much more knowledgeable than I am, I often can't add much to a discussion. I do appreciate everything I've learned here so far.

I really like my car and hope "Christmas Morning" never goes away. It's not perfect, neither is the company. I've sent a few suggestions to corporate on various subjects. I'd like to think I've nice to people in service centers, the few times I've needed their expertise thus far.

So in short, I self-identify as a "new owner" who also happens to identify with some of the characteristics of an "early adopter". It sounds like some of you think that a person like me doesn't or can't exist, just because I happened to have owned a great car (yes folks at the end of the day it's just a car) for less time than you have. What's wrong with this?

Thanks for reading.

PS. Others have said this before, but I believe we're *all* early adopters in one way or another.
Click to expand...

Everyone is welcome here, bmah. Everyone. Artsci has a point, but it doesn't apply to everyone & it certainly applies to some of the first people on the scene, too.

I personally was horrified at some of the behavior I witnessed at the D event last year. I'd never seen Tesla owners act like that and realized that times had changed. But it doesn't mean that all owners are like that.

Just keep pushing for civility on the forum, keep welcoming new members, keep joining in. It doesn't matter when you got your Tesla, it matters what you contribute going forward. And don't worry about the label. I don't know why some are so eager to label themselves as early adopters. It doesn't really matter.
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cab said: ?

At the end of the day, the Model S is a car...not a cause...which is undoubtedly why it is like most other car forums on here. Flame away!
Click to expand...

Tesla is a cause, embodied in the company mission statement.
The Mission of Tesla | Tesla Motors
"To accelerate the advent of sustainable transport by bringing compelling mass market electric cars to market as soon as possible."
As an owner and shareholder, I'm onboard with that.
�

cab said: ?

At the end of the day, the Model S is a car...not a cause...which is undoubtedly why it is like most other car forums on here.
Click to expand...

I couldn't possibly disagree more with this sentence. If you think it's just a car then you are totally missing the point. A BMW is just a car, a Porsche is just a car, so is a Ford, and so on and so forth...

Jeff
�

I just counted and Tesla was the 12th car I've ever bought. It was a long term sustainably decision after I added solar. It's a very fast car, very technical car so I would expect things like fit and finish to be show quality as those things seem easier then auto pilot, lol.

I'm not a Fan Boy of anything until I've fully ran it through its paces and lived with it for a good while. Last year I day traded thousands of shares of Tesla stock because it was such a volatile stock.

Tesla is far far ahead of any EV car out there but I do appreciate every dollar I've ever made and I can say as a shareholder I must question the service, quality, and treatment of such product in which I hold ownership in.

The reason they call it Cutting Edge Technology or as we also like to say "bleeding edge" technology there are huge risks for early adapters of this platform or anything else like it.

Personally I like the model X but would I want to be the first owner of it, Hell No. I've got kids, I want bugs worked out before I put my most valuable possessions in this new platform.
My decision to buy a model X in 3 years during my 36 to 39th month buy back will be based on my thoughts and impressions of the model s.

To date, the car is great. Fit and Finish is about an 8 out of 10.
I'll continue to use the car and over time I'll be either a long term customer or someone who was happy to have sold the car for a different platform in the coming years.

Truth be told the battery race is on. With Tesla being in so much debt they could begin share charging to other EVs as years go by. That would change things considerably.
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kevincwelch said: ?

I wonder of there are any generational differences fueling this.
Click to expand...

*I'm editing out my own snippiness* For those more "generationally advanced", I hope you can see how indignant some of you behave with the younger crowd. I ordered mine in 2012 at the age of 33. Many were much younger than me. The differences have VERY little to do with age, I believe. Mikeash said it best below:

mikeash said: ?

This happens with basically every product. Early adopters are enthusiasts and much more forgiving. As the product gains widespread appeal (assuming it ever does) then you get more picky people. Enthusiasts still buy, but they become a smaller proportion. It's no surprise that it's happening with Tesla too. Consider it to be a sign of success.
Click to expand...

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bonnie said: ?

I'm currently looking for a therapist, since it appears I'm a nerdy sycophant. Want me to look for you, too?
Click to expand...

I would, however I can't afford it. Need to save my money to pay for my 2nd Tesla, an X currently reserved.:smile:
�

I was using AP again today in the dark and in the rain, and once again marveled that Tesla has been able to accomplish so much for a young company in such a short period of time. Imo, AP excels where I cannot - the sensors seem to be able to pick up lane markings in the dark even when they fail to in the daytime. I assume because the lights reflect on them in the dark, but it may be it's something else. I used to hate driving in the dark, feeling much less confident in my visibility. AP has changed that significantly for me.

And that's when it hit me, that even though I arrived "late" to Tesla (mostly due to family circumstances with 4 kids and needing a 6/7 seater all those years even though we had a deposit on a Roadster long ago when we still lived in Australia), I am still an "early adopter" by virtue of trusting this company and its product and by using AP. There isn't anything hotter right now than all this talk about autonomous vehicles. We are able to experiment with the very first, best one, for the consumer market. It doesn't get much more Early Adopter than that.

napabill said: ?

I would, however I can't afford it. Need to save my money to pay for my 2nd Tesla, an X currently reserved.:smile:
Click to expand...

That's all the therapy you need!
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AWDtsla said: ?

If you think being able to outdrag literally every car on the road without getting a ticket for exhibition of speed, sure... boring.
Click to expand...

well a P(lain)85 will do that too but I can turn off TC and get the EX of speed if I want to...NG seats are nice though!

AWD is SICK in a straight line! after 45 mph, not a lot of difference to me
in wet, amazing, yes. But I did a 180 to park today in the wet. also really fun

^^^
but AP in the dark. interesting potential there
�

I remember using Apple II�s in high school and being fascinated by the Macintosh when it was first introduced. I even convinced my parents to buy one, then a second as my siblings aged and we began competing for computer time.
I remember using IBM�s at my first job out of college and wondering why it was so much more difficult than the Mac. Couldn�t everyone see Macs were clearly superior?
Years later, I remember convincing the powers that be at my company to buy a few Macs, which was a mistake. They went underutilized because people didn�t get the interface.
I remember passing the Tesla boutique when we were shopping for a new car and being in awe of the design and the overall concept. How was something like this possible? Better yet, why did it take an upstart to produce a machine so different?
I�ve met owners who think the MS is just another car. Sure, a little different/special because it�s electric but still just a mode of transportation. I�ve met other owners that get that they are driving something truly groundbreaking, truly different. The whole back-story and vision for the future are like a book you don�t want to put down. Both types of owners are represented along the entire VIN spectrum.
Would I rather interact with owners that appreciate the car? Sure. Do I understand owners for whom it�s just a car? Yup. Every car I�ve owned up to the MS has just been a car.
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Half Dollar Bill said: ?

<snip>Every car I�ve owned up to the MS has just been a car.
Click to expand...

Exactly.
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artsci said: ?

Opinions? Let the flaming begin
Click to expand...

We are all owners and by and large expect value for the money to varying degrees, but all the same, expectations will go up overtime.

Over the past 3 years of ownership I'm still expecting better things from TM each day.

Are they learning? Yes
Fast enough? Maybe...
Focus in the right place? Here's where I criticize
Is my criticize based on a viable business model? YMMV
Is this different from what I hear from new owners? Not really IMO

What I see as the main difference between now and the past 5 years I've been on the Tesla forums is that there are a huge # of voices and it is very hard to keep up with all the different voices.

Is that a bad thing? Hell no
Would it be awesome to have better forum tools to help with this issue? Hell yes!
Do I have opinions about these new tools? Sure, but could just put them into specs to others to develop

Anyway, that's my opinion...BTW, Artsci has some awesome upgrades!
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Raven said: ?

*I'm editing out my own snippiness* For those more "generationally advanced", I hope you can see how indignant some of you behave with the younger crowd. I ordered mine in 2012 at the age of 33. Many were much younger than me. The differences have VERY little to do with age, I believe. Mikeash said it best below:
Click to expand...

It was just a question being posed. I was on the younger side as well.
�

This reminds me of the times in college when we thought we were so "cool" because we knew a band before anyone else did, or before they hit it big. We need to be careful that the early adopter mentality isn't crossing lines with the hipster mentality. There is some kind of relationship between those two things.

At the same time, I'm a big believer in constructive criticism, assuming you're doing something about it (tell Tesla AND this forum, not just this forum, for instance). So criticizing with the intent of improvement - that's a necessary thing and not an indicator that someone's not an early adopter/cool crowd/whatever. I agree with AmpedRealtor's assessment that over time, it's reasonable to expect more of a company.

I've said this many times in the forum, but because I love Tesla, I really want some of their issues to be cleaned up now before there is serious competition. When that competition arrives, I don't want them to be leaning solely on charging infrastructure or their history in the field. I am hopeful their execution on timing and communication, specifically, will improve. I want the competition to succeed, but I want Tesla to lead.

Final thought returns to the hipster idea:

Why did the hipster burn his mouth?

Because he was drinking coffee before it was cool.
�

bonnie said: ?

I personally was horrified at some of the behavior I witnessed at the D event last year. I'd never seen Tesla owners act like that and realized that times had changed. But it doesn't mean that all owners are like that.
Click to expand...

Horrified? What happened?
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kevincwelch said: ?

Horrified? What happened?
Click to expand...

Oh, let's see.

Well, the first *event* was outside in the horrid traffic snarl. I was with my sister in her minivan. We were informed by a Model S driver that HE was a Model S owner and we needed to let him in because HE owned a Model S and we didn't. I would have climbed over her and out the driver window to get at him, but it was my sister. She didn't budge. Bless her.

Then in line, waiting to get in, I heard more than one owner demanding a VIP line for Model S owners. It was a sense of entitlement I hadn't heard before.

The funniest though, was when I was talking to someone in Tesla mgmt and this guy kind of jumped into our conversation cutting me off mid-sentence, huffily informing me that he was 'one of the early adopters'. I immediately said 'cool!', assumed he must have been an early Roadster owner & asked him his VIN. He kind of stumbled over his words, said it was '5000-something', I looked confused because that's not a Roadster VIN - and the Tesla person immediately jumped in with 'oh Bonnie has a Roadster'. And someone else grabbed me, said 'oh you should have a black wristband for the test rides, you're a Roadster owner, you don't have to wait. Come with me'. Normally I wouldn't take advantage of that, but considering the immediate circumstance ... heck yes.

Lots of little micro-events like the above that happened throughout the evening of people pushing their way through because they were 'Model S owners'. Stuff I hadn't seen before. And while I was sad to see it happen, I also recognized it as a sign of Tesla's success, moving into broader markets. And that's a good thing.
�

kevincwelch said: ?

It was just a question being posed. I was on the younger side as well.
Click to expand...

Your comment simply reminded me of the disappointing behavior I've seen out of older owners over the years. Seems as though I didn't earn the car like they did or something. It used to be that Tesla owners were so excited to see another owner that we would drive hundreds of miles to meet up. Now I too often find that approaching the Tesla in the next SC stall is faux pas.

Sometimes I feel the Model S is a baby we all helped raise. Newer owners are helping with the newest features so I can't really say only early adopters had a part in it. Hell, my S85 doesn't even have backup sensors let alone autopilot so I'm not providing any help towards improved AP.

Maybe those of us from farther back(yes, yes. It's all relative) have a stronger feeling about the car and company because we took a larger risk. Tesla was barely solvent and relatively unheard of. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't worried about owning a very expensive paperweight the first year or so.
�

Wow! Did this get a ton of fast responses.

I bought in 9-14. While not an early adopter, I do consider myself of that ilk. I am thankful to have the car and very tolerant of the growing pains. Though I must admit that I am getting a little annoyed at the little problems that I have had, noted in another post. But the service makes it all good every time.

I love the car and am not a luxury car kinda guy. So I like the fairly austere character of the car. It fits me to a tee. I paid for the driving experience, the tech and the electric. Not the cush. Though I wouldn't push a MB Brabus 900 to the curb!

- - - Updated - - -

Max*: "Nothing useful to add, just want a front row seat for this."

Ha ha!
�

bonnie said: ?

Oh, let's see.

Well, the first *event* was outside in the horrid traffic snarl. I was with my sister in her minivan. We were informed by a Model S driver that HE was a Model S owner and we needed to let him in because HE owned a Model S and we didn't. I would have climbed over her and out the driver window to get at him, but it was my sister. She didn't budge. Bless her.

Then in line, waiting to get in, I heard more than one owner demanding a VIP line for Model S owners. It was a sense of entitlement I hadn't heard before.

The funniest though, was when I was talking to someone in Tesla mgmt and this guy kind of jumped into our conversation cutting me off mid-sentence, huffily informing me that he was 'one of the early adopters'. I immediately said 'cool!', assumed he must have been an early Roadster owner & asked him his VIN. He kind of stumbled over his words, said it was '5000-something', I looked confused because that's not a Roadster VIN - and the Tesla person immediately jumped in with 'oh Bonnie has a Roadster'. And someone else grabbed me, said 'oh you should have a black wristband for the test rides, you're a Roadster owner, you don't have to wait. Come with me'. Normally I wouldn't take advantage of that, but considering the immediate circumstance ... heck yes.

Lots of little micro-events like the above that happened throughout the evening of people pushing their way through because they were 'Model S owners'. Stuff I hadn't seen before. And while I was sad to see it happen, I also recognized it as a sign of Tesla's success, moving into broader markets. And that's a good thing.
Click to expand...

I'm gonna get flamed for taking on the Great Bonnie (much respect): I'm sure you're downplaying the guy's behavior but this comes across as quite condescending and unlike the Bonnie I've seen on here for years. As I say of everything in life, "it's all relative". Devil's advocate.... Would Steve Jurvetson call you an early adopter by your metric above? I hope he would.
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Raven said: ?

I'm gonna get flamed for taking on the Great Bonnie (much respect): I'm sure you're downplaying the guy's behavior but this comes across and quite condescending and unlike the Bonnie I've seen on here for years. As I say of everything in life, "it's all relative". Devil's advocate.... Would Steve Jurvetson call you an early adopter by your metric above? I hope he would.
Click to expand...

Really? It came across as condescending? The guy jumped into our conversation, cut me off, informed me that HE was an early adopter with a truly condescending tone of voice. Sorry, but I didn't bring the Universe down on him. I asked his VIN as I would with any Roadster owner. That's not a put down. That's a normal intro among Roadster owners.

I'm human. After he was so rude to me, to have someone grab my arm and offer me a ride ... well I'm human. There is not a thing I did there that I'd consider condescending. I'm surprised you thought it was.

Keep in mind that in more than one post on this forum, I've made clear that as a Roadster owner with a VIN of 1194, I don't see myself as an early adopter. I knew I'd get my car. I consider the early adopters on this forum to be the guys here who put money down not knowing if they'd every get a car or not. True respect there.

So I'm not one of those who call themselves an early adopter. I don't need to label myself. But I am amused when I have someone in my face, informing me that THEY are an early adopter, as if somehow that makes it okay for them to cut me off mid-conversation.
�

bonnie said: ?

Really? It came across as condescending? The guy jumped into our conversation, cut me off, informed me that HE was an early adopter with a truly condescending tone of voice. Sorry, but I didn't bring the Universe down on him. I asked his VIN as I would with any Roadster owner. That's not a put down. That's a normal intro among Roadster owners.

I'm human. After he was so rude to me, to have someone grab my arm and offer me a ride ... well I'm human. There is not a thing I did there that I'd consider condescending. I'm surprised you thought it was.
Click to expand...

I think you're taking my comment too personally. As I said, you may have downplayed the extent of his behavior. I wasn't there. I'm just explaining how I perceived it straight from written word. It didn't seem like the Bonnie I've seen on here. You see the situation vividly in your head and, even though you wrote it, you see your text coming across just as vivid as in your head. What I see is something that I might do in a bout of excitement. Jump in and say I have one of the early(Model S) cars. It seems this guy was a jackass and I apologize that I didn't read it that way the first time. But, in my opinion, it's always good for us to have a devil's advocate every once in a while. Believe me, if I didn't have a good friend that did that to me on regular occasion, I would be one very, very ignorant person. Not saying you are...

Edit: I replied before your edit. I now see this guy was much more than just an overly-excited owner at an exciting event. Seems he was a Napoleon Complex individual and you WAAAYYY under-reacted! haha Thanks for the other clarification also. Now that's the Bonnie I "know".
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Raven said: ?

I think you're taking my comment too personally. As I said, you may have downplayed the extent of his behavior. I wasn't there. I'm just explaining how I perceived it straight from written word. It didn't seem like the Bonnie I've seen on here. You see the situation vividly in your head and, even though you wrote it, you see your text coming across just as vivid as in your head. What I see is something that I might do in a bout of excitement. Jump in and say I have one of the early(Model S) cars. It seems this guy was a jackass and I apologize that I didn't read it that way the first time. But, in my opinion, it's always good for us to have a devil's advocate every once in a while. Believe me, if I didn't have a good friend that did that to me on regular occasion, I would be one very, very ignorant person. Not saying you are...
Click to expand...

Of course I took it personally when you called me condescending. I'm glad you have good friends who can set you straight upon occasion. .
�

teslamotorclub

Thứ Năm, 5 tháng 1, 2017

New owners and early adopter owners: Do I detect a major difference? part 1

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