Oct 15, 2015
Crowded Mind I thought it would be helpful to gauge opinions in a poll. Please do not vote if you are still undecided.�
Oct 15, 2015
greentee Had a few scary moments today when using autopilot on my way home.
It seems to work fine if you are driving on the highway *and* not on the exit lane.
The scary moments:
1. Engaged autopilot on the street and it somehow tried to cross over to another lane at low speed. I couldn't tell whether it was trying to center itself on the lane or it didn't see the markings on the road since the road was a bit curvy. Had to take over even though no car was on the other lane.
2. When merging into the highway, it seemed to drive more aggressively than I'd have liked. The car in front of me tried to merge even though there were still some distance before the merging lane ends. So it just zoomed past that car at highway speed to almost the end of the merging lane. It worked, but scary.
3. I was going southbound on 101 trying to get on CA87. The lane changing worked fine moving to the right-most lane to get on CA87. However, the lane splits into 3 lanes as soon as you get off 101. So the car sped up but then it jerked to the left (probably trying to stay close to the markings on the left). It looked as if it was going off the road at high speed. Very scary in this case and I took over soon after it jerked to the left.
Once I was on CA87 and stayed on the middle lane, it worked great so I can't really say that I'm unsatisfied.
But I also can't be satisfied if it's going to scare me multiple times in a single trip!!�
Oct 15, 2015
bshaf Straight on a highway in the middle lane or left lane it's excellent. Not worth the issues on anything less than a highway or a lane with exits�
Oct 15, 2015
eclipxe Didn't read poll closely and accidently voted Very Unsatisfied - wasn't my intention�
Oct 15, 2015
CHG-ON I need more time before I vote. Tried it for the first time tonight right after the download. It scared the crap out of me a couple of times. But it generally worked very well. Some wandering in the lane and jerked into a left turn lane once, trying to follow the left lane marker because the right was not terribly clear. It'll take some time and testing before I really know how I feel. I did give it some very challenging situations. But how totally cool! It is such a weird experience to have the car driving itself.�
Oct 15, 2015
gtimbers Ill take your vote!�
Oct 15, 2015
skilly Im disappointed that I can't eat in the back seat yet and be driven to work...
�
Oct 15, 2015
AWDtsla Sounds like the car is driving the right way, better than most humans. That guy was going way too slow.�
Oct 15, 2015
ssq Posting videos I saw on reddit. These are not my videos and the captions are from youtube videos of respective video owners.
reddit has other videos proving its still in beta(Elong emphasized this) and people should not expect way too much and be careful.
"Tesla AutoPilot tried to kill me! "
Hard turn @ 2:57 mark:
�
Oct 16, 2015
greentee Ahh similar behavior as my #1 and #3. Though the guy using autopilot on a non-divided road simply asked for it himself.
That being said, I don't mind if it disengages but hey don't jerk to the side for no good reason..
Scary stuff and they better fix it soon.�
Oct 16, 2015
greentee
Yea that's the right decision but wrong speed.�
Oct 16, 2015
modex I think it will be very important this auto-pilot system continue to learn the specific roads we drive everyday, to work, and go home; learn how we drive and react for those particular roads.
These will be the situation we use auto-pilot most often.
For other roads we don't drive so often, at current technology, pay attention to drive by ourselves with assistance of the system to avoid accident.
this autopilot system has a lot of "eyes", but it's brain and driving experience is like newbie.�
Oct 16, 2015
robertvg The title of this video should be "Tesla AutoPilot tried to kill some innocent other people and I am to blame for it."
It's a very very very bad idea to release this to general public when it makes that kind of mistakes.
At least it should not be possible to enable the option other then on highways.�
Oct 16, 2015
Vitold I agree, Tesla better lock it to few selected roads. It should, at this point, never engage on roads w/o divider or no shoulder.
Also, what is with the sudden jerking of the wheel - if Autopilot thinks sudden correction is needed it means the system needs work - this is not GTA 7.�
Oct 16, 2015
Magus Actually, Autosteer disengages before the Model S veers to left. Looks like driver error and not an autosteer mistake.�
Oct 16, 2015
GregTexas The only reason the system should make a drastic turn is if it is trying to avoid a collision. A better option would be to turn off the system. Maybe when we get this jerk it is mistakenly thinking we are about to collide with something.�
Oct 16, 2015
RAW84 How in the world is that driver's error? What did the driver do incorrectly?
The angle is weird, but it looks like the car veers left earlier in the video to for no reason at all. Personally, once it did that, I would have disengaged and concluded AP couldn't handle that road�
Oct 16, 2015
Max* I'm very satisfied.
But AP did try to kill me today. Going down a curvy city street, 1 lane in each direction. It was doing great, then all of a sudden it tried to change lanes :gulp:. Thankfully there was no oncoming traffic.�
Oct 16, 2015
robertvg This.
Who ever said that humans are bad drivers forgot to mention that they are even worse in reading manuals.
Didn't they say that the auto-steer/lane keeping is for highways, and NOT to be used on two way streets without barriers ??�
Oct 16, 2015
Max* A. Actually they NEVER said the bolded
2. And humans who don't test the boundaries or capabilities of what they have will never know the limitations.
III. What's your point? They also said TACC is for highways, I use it on city streets all the time. You gotta know the limitations of the hardware to comfortably use it.�
Oct 16, 2015
EnIgmA_BE This is to me the reason why Tesla waited this long to release the autopilot update. They say it's only for use on the highways, but yet everyone is testing it locally.
Somebody is going to crash(just a matter of days, i think), and then blame Tesla for it.
Tesla will then react by canceling the roll-out. This way, I won�t have a chance to test AP.
Noooooooo, stop it!!!�
Oct 16, 2015
sandpiper I agree with this, but I've found enough of the limits to realize that we have to be very very careful doing this. It sometimes does some very unexpected things. When getting into a slightly complex situation, hands on the wheel and be very alert.�
Oct 16, 2015
Max* See the post above yours.
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I never said my hands were off the wheel. I never said I wasn't alert. I knew what I was doing, I knew it's not meant for that, and I was more aware of my surrounds than I usually am.�
Oct 16, 2015
EnIgmA_BE I know, someone beat me to it.
Sorry for that.�
Oct 16, 2015
Krugerrand It is interesting the number of people using it in situations it's been clearly and publically stated it is not intended, and then some of those people going on to complain about how it's working/not working. It's like giving people a box of matches and a can of gas and telling them specifically not to light the matches near the gas, then having people completely ignore the warning, pour the gas over their heads, and strike a match.
Adding: I guess that's just people testing the distance limitations of flame to gas before everything goes up in flames.
�
Oct 16, 2015
ratsbew Tesla needs to release 7.01 ASAP to fix the following:
- Disable AP on two way roads
- Recognize and stop for stop signs
- Recognize and disconnect for yield signs
- Recognize and stop for yellow/green stop lights
There can be a select group of beta testers that can still drive on two way roads, but they need to receive some extra training.
Speaking of training, maybe you should be required to attend a class at the nearest Tesla Showroom before you can unlock autopilot???
Edit: part of the problem is idiots filming themselves with one hand while using dangerous/new technology.�
Oct 16, 2015
sandpiper I never intended to imply otherwise. My comments were more intended for others who might not have gone as far down the experimentation road. It's very clear to me why Tesla took quite a bit of time before releasing this. It will be fine for the majority of Tesla owners who are very tech minded and aware of the limits of technology. I'm a little more concerned about the less tech-minded folks who aren't as clear on the limitations.�
Oct 16, 2015
Max* I've seen plenty of people test the limits so far, I have only seen maybe 1 person actually complain. Where is this "number of people"?
- - - Updated - - -
No.Freaking.Way. I didn't buy a nanny-state car.
- - - Updated - - -
Understood.�
Oct 16, 2015
Krugerrand Multiple threads and videos posted on this forum with plenty of examples. You'll come across them in due time. Otherwise just wait for it...won't be long. We've already got the 'Tesla tried to kill me video posted on YouTube'.�
Oct 16, 2015
Max* I've seen a few here already, but I think most of the comments are hyperbole.
I also said "Tesla tried to kill me", in this thread, a few posts ago. And yes, if you read just that one post, without looking at any of my other posts, someone could interpret it as me being serious. Anyone who's read any of my other posts, would likely realize I said it in jest.
I understand where you're coming from though, because I've stated this probably 100 times in various threads, most people don't understand that Autopilot != Autonomous. They think they can go take a nap, or attach a string to the steering wheel, or go text, or go to the back seat and have a 3-course meal. That's not the case. That'll probably never be the case with AP 1.0. It's coming, but we're not there yet.�
Oct 16, 2015
chriSharek I think we all need to remember, this is the FIRST mass-produced car to even have this type of hardware/software enabled for the masses. It's going to have bugs and things to be worked out. I'm astounded that Tesla, not Ford, GM, VW, or some Japanese manufacturer, is leading the industry and bringing this technology forward. Let's try not to be too critical in this bold, first attempt.�
Oct 16, 2015
Vitold I agree, Tesla's Autopilot should not be used on secondary highways. It's obvious from "Tesla tried to kill me" video that user interface is not fast enough to handle winding roads - with no shoulder or median - at high speeds.�
Oct 16, 2015
ecarfan You are using highly inflammatory and inaccurate language in your post. The Autopilot software had no intent to harm you. You are attributing human malevolence to software code.
On a two lane road with a lot of curves and no physical divider between your lane and oncoming traffic you had Autopilot engaged even though it is clear based on statements from Tesla that is not the intended use case. I am glad you had your hands close to the wheel and were able to take control but you should not be using Autopilot on roads like that.�
Oct 16, 2015
MichFin I think it's a good first try but here are some of the things I had problems with on the highway.
- Car seems to make way to many micro adjustments to stay in the middle.
- See's and exit and wants take it.
On surface roads and I know it's not intended for this.
- When a lane opens for a right turn it wants to go into it.
- Driving through an intersection it often gets confused.
- Slows down to hard for stopped traffic ahead
In stop and crawl traffic.
- Followed a car going into the right turn lane.
- Speeds up and slows down to aggressively.�
Oct 16, 2015
Max* O no, how dare you use it on surface streets. That's a sin, you should have your car revoked!
O wait, back to reality. I agree with everything you said. I forgot that it gets confused at intersections. I also had to take over once (didn't want to see what would happen) when an intersection was on a turn (maybe 30 degree turn?), the car didn't give me a warm and fuzzy as we approached it that it would do the right thing.�
Oct 16, 2015
AWDtsla Agree. It's unfortunate so many users are just not going to "get it". It's like saying your oven tried to kill you because you left it on all winter.�
Oct 16, 2015
roblab And I don't agree.I live 40 miles from freeways. Most daily driving is on secondary roads, not even highways. They get long and tedious, too. The Tesla AP handles them well.
I drove on two lane winding roads for a couple hours yesterday. Of course, with autopilot, cruise was on. Car was going fast, but handled the corners, although abruptly. It was obvious that I could see the curve better than the radar, before the radar, and when the car recognized the curve it had to do abrupt steering. Simple fix was to slow the cruise control down. I never had to "grab the wheel".
When following a car on two lane curvy road, there were no issues.
Car recognized that guard rails, bushes, cars, flat bed trucks, were beside me. It never dodged anything. I exercised confidence and let it shy away from things it wasn't sure of, but that was rare and I never had the feeling it was "trying to kill me" which is a bit much of an overstatement. My Mom likes to say things like that to be sensationalist, so I'm used to it. It had to feel its way when the center lane moved away to make room for a left turn lane, but quickly figured it out. ONLY ONCE did it ask me to take over the wheel on a section of curves. Usually it could find one side or the other of the rural road and follow without trouble.
From my understanding, each car that autopilots down a stretch of road collects data. Then all later cars will understand the road better as data is collected about that piece of the map.
I feel strongly that new AP drivers should start in slowly and learn with the car. Don't push the envelope until you are confident, and you will have nothing but a great experience.�
Oct 16, 2015
Max* I agree with everything you said, but I wanted to double agree with the quote above.�
Oct 16, 2015
electracity I think you probably should be excited about Mobileye's leadership:
Lane Centering - Mobileye�
Oct 16, 2015
AWDtsla It is too early for this poll. The Fleet is learning faster than the drivers are. Let it map out most roads first.�
Oct 16, 2015
vitaliy All unsatisfied, please don't use autopilot. Let's give feedback directly to Tesla, and NOT spread negative words/videos... It will slow down sales for the company that desperately needs it... wtf people...�
Oct 16, 2015
wannamodels The most ridiculous statement
Folks, you cant fix stupid...so dont try to make Tesla take away awesome new features if some people are too stupid to use them in a reasonable way...this couls easily parallel the gun control argument. If you think auto pilot tried to kill you you need to turn the feature off and go away...stop pissing on the parade.�
Oct 16, 2015
Max* Consdering 85% of people are happy with it in it's current form, it can only get better.�
Oct 16, 2015
Crowded Mind It will be nice to see the difference now vs. later on.�
Oct 16, 2015
GregTexas Anyone dissatisfied hasn't tried the competition or they are dissatisfied because their car can't be upgraded to AP.�
Oct 16, 2015
Max* Or because they were expecting autonomous driving.�
Oct 16, 2015
Trnsl8r Possibly off-topic question from a non-AP owner: Is AP smart enough to slow down in curves that are too sharp for the current speed?�
Oct 16, 2015
Max* It's supposed to, based on the release notes. I have not seen it happen yet, but I haven't tested it long enough.�
Oct 16, 2015
AWDtsla A Model S should be able to handle the posted speed limit on at turn, and probably exceed it by 1.5x or higher. The speed limit is designed so that your grandma in a car from the 1950's could make that turn, and THEN the local geriatrics and paranoid parents lobbied to reduce the posted speed limit even lower than that.�
Oct 16, 2015
Max* Mostly true, but the speed limit is also designed to withstand minor forms of inclement weather (not talking about hurricanes or snow storms)�
Oct 16, 2015
yo mama I'm mostly satisfied due, in large part, to the revolutionary facet of the update. My only gripe is that I can't figure out how to increase the speed, after its initially set, without using the accelerator pedal. Everything else is pretty forgivable within the context of: (1) the disclaimers/instructions from Tesla; and (2) the fact the update is still in Beta.
Thank you, Tesla, for introducing the future - today!�
Oct 16, 2015
Max* Flick the TACC stalk up (as if you're using it as a turn signal). Slight click up is +1mph, hard click up locks you into the next 5mph increment
i.e.
TACC 64mph -- slight up = 65mph
TACC 64mph -- hard up = 65mph
TACC 61mph -- slight up = 62mph
TACC 61mph -- hard up = 65mph�
Oct 16, 2015
Petra All I see here is the car making what looks to be a slight but sudden centering correction to the right while entering a gradual left turn, causing the meat servo to violently overcorrect to the left. Gentle inputs, people... gentle inputs.�
Oct 16, 2015
JenniferQ Well-said!�
Oct 16, 2015
yo mama First, thank you. Second, when using autopilot is there a max speed (as opposed to a Max* speed)?�
Oct 16, 2015
Monsterzero What...you can't!?:scared:�
Oct 16, 2015
JenniferQ So, some of us, it looks like, are already very familiar with TACC, and some have never used it before, if the above tutorial asked for by a member is still needed.
Perhaps another poll could ask: Are you satisfied that AP is what you expected it to be?
I have used TACC for several years now on MBZ and know that it's far from perfect. But I love it on long drives and even in the 'stop 'n go' traffic on the 5. I hate the lane assist on the MBZ and had it turned off for that reason. It can be very scary to veer out of your lane due to an object or another car coming from the other side, only to have lane assist jerk and rumble you back into said lane.
Therefore, when I first tried AP on the Tesla, I was VERY IMPRESSED and overall VERY SATISFIED. It does more than I expected it to be able to do. Is it AUTONOMOUS? No. But it is not meant to be. However, I believe it does more than any other out there can at the moment and we have been entrusted with it in Beta! Beta, people!
Keep your eyes on the road and your hands on, or at least very near, the wheel. We do not need accidents to prove Tesla jumped the gun with this and let us all fly a little too close to the sun!
Drive safely!�
Oct 16, 2015
Max*
TACC maxes out at 90mph. Not sure about Auto-steer, I would expect 90mph too.
And har har har�
Oct 16, 2015
P85DEE Selected the wrong option. I'm actually very satisfied with it.�
Oct 16, 2015
JenniferQ I thought I read 85mph somewhere. But any faster and the sensors just can't keep up. Happens with BlindSpot sometimes, too, at high speeds�
Oct 16, 2015
Griffinlair Has anyone found a way to keep your hands on the wheel while in AP that 1) didn't cause AP to disengage and 2)didn't make your arms tired supporting the weight of your arms mid air since you can't place much weight on the wheel without causing condition 1)?�
Oct 16, 2015
Max* If I'm not mistaken TACC is 90mph. The blind spot detection turns off at either 80mph or maybe it was 85mph (someone here says 88mph).
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I keep my elbow on the drivers door arm rest. THat's also the way I normally drive.�
Oct 16, 2015
BerTX What I see is that the lane markings suddenly end, and the Autosteer can't find the road. Lane markings and stripes are informational to our brains. We can still see where the road is and adapt. To the AS, lane markings are a vital, necessary controlling factor in being able to work!�
Oct 16, 2015
Griffinlair I'm one of those that normally has hands at 10 and 2 with all of my arms weight resting on hands.�
Oct 16, 2015
Max* Found the blindspot official numbers "Blind Spot Warning is active when Model S is travelling between 20 mph (30 km/h) and approximately 85 mph (140 km/h)." (Page 68 owners manual)
Can't find the official TACC numbers�
Oct 16, 2015
Petra The lines to the left transition into detectable Armco barrier and the lines to the right remain until after the human overcorrection is made. A curb appears to the distant right of the lane markings (eventually bending in to replace the markings, but that point is after the correction). It's possible that a centering correction was being made by Autopilot to more evenly space the car between the Armco barrier and the distant curb that appeared (both hypothetically detectable by the radar/ultrasonic systems), as I did not notice any alert from Autopilot indicating that the driver should intervene. The system also had a lead car in view the entire time.
All of that is beside my point, though... regardless of the cause, the Autopilot system made a very small corrective input to steering angle (in error or otherwise) and the response from the human was sudden overcorrection. My concern here is with people overreacting to the system doing anything unexpected, regardless of whether the system is operating nominally or not. As the fleet is learning and improving, it's possible that people reacting to the system will cause more accidents than the system itself.�
Oct 16, 2015
ssq
Ouch! @ecarfan Its not my video or my car, I am just the messenger. This was posted on reddit. I agree with your points though.�
Oct 16, 2015
billarnett I tried putting my hands on my knees with one thumb gentry resting on the bottom of the steering wheel. That seems to usually be enough to keep the Nagging Nanny at bay. And my intuition is that if I had to take over quickly I would be OK.
The key to auto steering at this point is to be very vigilant and aware of when the auto steering may have trouble. We will all get better at this with practice. (Then Tesla will release an upgrade and we'll have to learn all over again
The danger is that it works well enough that one can get away with not paying attention for long periods. Sooner or later someone will be killed for that reason. The question is whether that will happen more or less often than it would have without autopilot.�
Oct 16, 2015
Coiled I wonder what % of the "very satisfied" live in California, where the majority of development and testing was done. In my area, the car has serious problems identifying some types of highway lane markings, which is why I voted neutral. I'm sure it will improve.
I also wonder what % of lane recognition is developed in-house by Tesla vs. built in to Mobileye.�
Oct 16, 2015
Vitold Tesla Autopilot is not perfect I think it's easy to agree on that. Disabling Autpilot for corner cases, such as secondary highways, would be the best way to improve it until better technology and logic has been developed. Doing so would be better for Tesla investors, Tesla drivers, insurance companies - not to mention everyone else on the road.�
Oct 16, 2015
billarnett The speed limit is supposed to be the maximum safe speed under ideal conditions....
...where "ideal" means a blind quadriplegic driving an overloaded 1957 school bus in a snow storm.�
Oct 16, 2015
Max* I agree with the first sentence, I disagree with everything else you wrote.
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You are absolutely right, I was thinking road designs. Road designs are designed with buffer for inclement weather at the given speed limit plus speeding plus some other nonsense, IIRC.�
Oct 16, 2015
Griffinlair I found a position that is comfortable with my hands "on" the wheel but not so heavy handed (as I've been driving my adult life) that causes the AP to disengage.
i try and see some of the limits of the system, as others appear to do also, so I was trying to find something similar to the "tesla tried to kill me" video. What I seemed to notice is that roads with the double yellow center lane, especially in bright sun and shady sections, the AP tended to lose the yellow easier than I would have thought visually. It then would see the white across the opposite lane, then tend to steer to between the two white lines (I.e. Crossing over the double yellow). Then it would again pick up the double yellow and correct back into my lane. Obviously, this isn't desired, but the system may not have as much color deciphering as yellow lanes are not typical on divided highways / interstates (the intended realm of the AP beta).
anyone else see anything like that's?�
Oct 16, 2015
Max* That makes sense, I had something happen to me where it tried to go against traffic, through a double yellow line, if it was trying to center, that would explain it�
Oct 16, 2015
skilly yup. Speed and safety haven't necessarily been related since that era either. They removed speed limits in Montana for a time and traffic accident rates DECLINED. but then again, so did enforcement revenue.
Im treading dangerously close to moving off the thread topic, but let me bring it back - speed doesn't kill stupid drivers do - same with this AP. The first accident will be caused by some idiot driving through a residential area and blowing through a stop sign and creating an accident. It will be his/her fault and the tools will be blamed by the driver.�
Oct 16, 2015
MX458Dave A better question for me: is it worth the $2500/3000? I'm configuring and trying to decide if it is worth it. I use simple cruise control sometimes. Haven't felt a serious need for all the above, although it looks like fun to play with.�
Oct 16, 2015
stallhorn Depends on what kind of person you are. I am a techie and I wouldn't consider a tesla without an autopilot - at all. I have always liked the cutting edge (sometimes the bleeding edge) of technology, and I am aware of the pitfalls. I use the autopilot, and use it cautiously. I take the word "Beta" seriously and don't treat a beta release as if it is production grade fully functioning, will-never-make-a-mistake system. I even expect a production version software to make a mistake. As a human, I am good at judging how far to let the autopilot go, and when to take over.
But then there are my flight students who "try to kill me" - and themselves - every time we go flying. Then they learn how to fly, take their children and family up (along with other 300 or so people) and make good decisions and become safe pilots. I am treating the autopilot the same way - it will learn and become better.
My advice - go for it!�
Oct 16, 2015
Coiled Don't know whether the software has a problem picking up yellow lines, but it's a little strange if true. Don't the interstates have a solid yellow line on the median side?�
Oct 16, 2015
jbcarioca i agree with every word! I recall doing a LRJET type rating for a well educated articulate MD who tried to kill me on his check ride V1 cut. I fear that people like him will assume "beta" is meaningless and foment disaster. There are people on this forum who equate "autopilot" with "autonomous". If it were not beta it would still be an autopilot rather than autonomous driving.
I'm thrilled with my 500 miles do far with AP. I'm happier as I'm learning it 's limitations. This is complex technology. It deserves respect.�
Oct 16, 2015
COrental First chance to try it today. 100 mile drive on I-70 heading east into Denver, half before dawn and half just after sunrise driving into the sun. I disengaged it through the construction zones. Several times it tried to take an exit to the right and I had to intervene. There was a couple of times where it made a sudden jerky swerve out of the current lane with no warning and I had to intervene. I'm not sure if it was the sun glare or what caused this. It seemed to work best when we were going slower in the heavy traffic through Denver. I hope it improves quickly with crowdsourcing learning, but am hesitant to really use it at this point.�
Oct 16, 2015
LetsGoFast I think is an area that is improved 200% over 6.2 TACC. Previously it would maintain speed and race up behind stopped traffic and slam the brake. It was so abrupt that it took me some time to believe it would even brake at all and many times I still had to take over or I'm pretty sure it would have rear ended someone. The reaction to stopped traffic ahead is hugely improved IMO.
I drove for about an hour on a two lane road in rural New Jersey today and I saw no evidence of this. It was seeking a bit on fast corners roaming a bit wide or tight on sweeping curves and clearly operating on the edge of (and sometimes past) it's ability to accurately follow the road. I never saw it slow down once, until my wife strongly suggested that I either take control completely or slow it down. I can't say it never does it, but it didn't do it for me in a situation where it needed to do it. It struggled with dappled sunlight through the trees, sometimes losing the lines when I could see them just fine.
I drove from central Virgina through to southern New Jersey yesterday and I'm a very satisfied. Some of the roads in New Jersey not only are unlikely to have seen AP Teslas I'm not sure there have even been many automobiles on them.�
Oct 16, 2015
Max* I want to update my comment to yes.
I was on an on ramp to the highway. TACC set to 50mph, no cars in front of me, it had me doing 30mph. I was annoyed and hit the go pedal. After I merged, TACC took me to 50.�
Oct 16, 2015
JenniferQ If that happens consistently, that is awesome! I have not had that experience before with TACC on the MBZ and even going around a corner tracking a vehicle can be scary if I don't keep the wheel exactly in line with leading vehicle and my car sees nothing ahead and surges forward.�
Oct 16, 2015
CanadaEV It is likely that a lot of us have broken the intent and Tesla's guidance on how Autopilot should be used. Especially the 'divided road' requirement, and 'hands always must be on the wheel'. There are reasons for this - excitement about the new feature, a feeling of entitlement to test its abilities, over-confidence in our own ability to safely correct its errors, and many more. Hopefully, after the excitement wears off a little we'll get more responsible about it. I hope nobody gets hurt in the meantime.
This is a good thread on the topic. Maybe we need another thread, something like, 'These are the worst ways I have used Autopilot'. Of course, anyone owning up to not following the rules won't have much defense if they cause an accident and their post is still there saying that's how they use it. But Tesla will know that anyway. They can refer to the state of the car before an accident, and possibly how it was being handled by the driver. And certainly if the road of the accident met their required criteria.�
Oct 17, 2015
hobbes As the experiences on this are pretty mixed - is it possible that this has to do with the learning of the cars from each other? No experience from other cars (likely in rural areas with few Model S), it just keeps the set speed - data from a some other cars that have used the highway ramp and gone slower, so it goes slower, too? Would be awesom yet a bit early I guess.�
Oct 17, 2015
sillydriver I want to change my vote from 'satisfied' to 'very satisfied'. My initial tries early yesterday were on roads AP really wasn't designed for. Late yesterday afternoon I tried the interstate and it did exactly what was originally promised: on-ramp to off-ramp with no intervention other than the turn signal.�
Oct 17, 2015
Max* TACC slowed me down on the on-ramp again (this time in PA, doing a small road trip). Steep ramp, 25mph. BUT there was a car in front of me, and he was pulling away so I'm sure he was doing more than 25mph. It seems to work, but not all the time. I'd say I'm 2 for maybe 6.
As a side note, 150 miles on the highway today, it asked me to hold the wheel a few times it needed moral support - once when I assumed a large truck was going to cut me off, but didn't. Once when the lane marks were very worn, and a few other random times.
I'm VERY pleased.�
Oct 17, 2015
ArcAngel I vote "very satisfied".
My experience is on a well marked four lane highway, which is frankly the only place I think I'd have confidence in it operating on AP. I would not risk a two lane road with curves, lights, etc. In my hour or so of total drive time, I thought it worked incredibly well at recognizing the lane markings and keeping the car right in the middle (much better than I often am able to do to). Lane changing also worked flawlessly. I could see how it might be sketchy on a poorly marked roadways or in bad weather, but I am not sure what more we could have asked for in this release: it makes highway driving easier and safer.�
Oct 17, 2015
dean1013 It's too early to say. I was very excited about this technology and frankly, it frightens me. I have had a couple near misses already and I am keeping my hands on the steering wheel the entire time. Today I was driving to work and it confused the lane markings and started to turn into an adjacent lane with a car coming up behind me. Another time, it alarmed because it nearly collided with a car in the lane to the right of me.
It seems that sometimes it doesn't always center itself in the lane and veers somewhat towards the right or left side of the lane.
The other day, it was making a lane change and spent too long straddling the lane marking. There was a stopped car in the left lane (the lane I was changing from) which it didn't sense or slow down for. I made an evasive turn into the right lane to avoid a collision.
I have the distance setting at 3 car lengths which is a safe distance, but it's a perfect opportunity for other aggressive drivers to cut me off. What I've noticed is that it doesn't recognize a car merging into my lane in front of me until the car is almost completely in front of my car.
I can see using it on a long road trip where there is minimal traffic and clear lane markings. Other than that, I honestly don't think the technology is ready for prime-time in heavy traffic areas. There are too many unpredictable variables and I'm sure there are going to be accidents.
It has to be perfect and flawless which will never be the case unless ALL cars are autonomous on well-marked roads. Otherwise, drivers need to keep their hands on the wheel and take over which kind of defeats the purpose.
Understanding, of course, this technology is a beta version and is in it's infancy and it will continue to improve with newer models and software updates.�
Oct 17, 2015
tstafford I'd be very disappointed if Tesla turned off AP Lanekeeping on secondary roads and made it only for the highway. I suppose if they were to do that they should also speed govern the car on secondary roads and for that matter maybe the highway too.
Driving is dangerous. Doing stupid things makes it more dangerous. I think I can use my judgment as to when and how to use AP Lanekeeping w/o Tesla needing to programmatically limit it by the type of road. I use the same type of judgment as to the speed that I use the Tesla.�
Oct 17, 2015
Nigel16494 Faith, hope and strong underwear is required. You go towards a bend in the road and wonder. It worked flawlessly . I hated cruise control but loved TACC, I think this autopilot will help a lot. I like the fact it shows me car activity, someone merges in front and the car icon shows it has been picked up and from which direction�
Oct 17, 2015
Max* Worked flawlessly on the first leg of our trip home. I even took a nap.
Relax, my wife was in the driver's seat watching over AP�
Oct 17, 2015
jdw Worked perfectly from on-ramp to off-ramp on my 20 mile commute to work and back through two interchanges . Going to work, traffic was flowing; coming home I encountered stop and go traffic all the way. It does tend to track a little to the right, closer to the vehicle in that lane than I would have driven and it does work better when following another car. The only input I gave it was signal lights for lane changes.
Also worth noting, the new hold function is great and TACC is much smoother in stop and go traffic now. I'm even happy with the new UI ... I had serious misgivings based on screen pictures, but in use, many of the decisions make sense.
Good job Tesla!�
Oct 17, 2015
jbcarioca I agre with most of your post, but this point is a misunderstanding. Those TACC distance intervals are in seconds of time which will pass before your car will be where the car in front of you is now. Thus it is speed-sensitive. To equate to the driver training adage of following distance, even 1 will suffice, but 2 is the level I use.�
Oct 19, 2015
Vitold At this point even Tesla does not know how good or bad AP is (they call it public beta) so I'm not sure how anyone else can make such judgement.
From 'tesla tried to kill me' video it's obvious that current implementation did not disengage quickly enough or in a safe manner when driving on hilly, winding two lane road. Driver who took the video had no idea AP should not be on and I suppose many others would make the same mistake because we just don't know it's capabilities well enough.�
Oct 19, 2015
skyflash My first autopilot experience this w/e. I just happened to have planned a couple of days away at a resort 4 hours drive from home - so thanks Tesla for releasing the software just ahead of this! (In reality they may have considered the fact that releasing before a weekend would give people the chance for some immediate fun).
The experience was overall extremely positive. We know the technology is brand new and the auto steer is even marked as "beta", so clearly flagged as being still a little raw. Nevertheless, driving on multi-lane highways and even somewhat windy single-lane main roads was generally great. The oddities I experienced were:
1. Several incidents of abrupt and incorrect steering at lane widening ahead of the appearance of a left-turn lane. The car tended to move away from the right lane boundary and was suddenly confronted with the lane divider line where there left-turn lane was suddenly marked, at the point where the main lane had grown to the width of two. The car invariably decided to leap into the left-turn lane, rather than continuing to hug the right lane boundary and continue on the main road. The abruptness of this maneuver was very jarring and I had to quickly manually steer to the right. The drivers of the cars behind must have had a little cuss.
2. On my return journey on a multi-lane highway, I was in the right-hand lane and noticed that the vehicle had not detected the overtaking lane to the left. It continued not to see this lane and therefore automatic lane changing (for overtaking) was not available. I'm not sure why it failed to detect the other lane, as I had seen that working fine before. The lane dividers were fairly widely spaced white dashes (but seemed to be to be quite 'normal' for a fast highway). The light conditions were cloudy and perhaps not so bright, but all the other functions of auto-steer were working just fine.
3. At higher speeds cornering was a bit 'off'. I noticed that at a moderate bend to the left, at a highish but still normal speed at which I was take the corner, auto-steer would hug to the left lane divider/centerline, even touching a wheel on it. This is despite there seeming to be able room in the lane to the right. I can't remember whether the vehicle was detecting a barrier to the right of the road at the time, but it did this several times on a left bend.
I know we have other features coming.
I would love there to be a speed limit tracking option for the cruise speed. At least chime and set the proposed new speed, giving the driver a chance to veto or change this before executing the actual speed change in the cruise setting.
Definitely traffic light/intersection detection would be awesome. Though in practice at the moment, you would be slowing down from highway speeds (where you are most likely to be using autopilot) before you get to any traffic lights.
I wonder why the GPS route isn't used when possible to figure out appropriate limits on the speeds to take corners (comfortably - and/or in the envelope that auto-steer can handle). I believe there are vehicles that now use GPS route data to do gear selection for corners. AFAICT, the Tesla autopilot is not altering it's cornering behaviour at all based on anything (sometimes there are yellow speed signs posted ahead of corners, which might also be a clue, though these can be widely off the mark as to what is actually comfortably possible in a good vehicle).�
Oct 19, 2015
RAW84 This is actually a very easy judgement to make once you have some experience driving with autopilot for some time. When autopilot is engaged, it lets you know that it's reading lane markings with blue lines on the each side of the car on the screen. If either side fades or disappears completely, it's clear that autopilot is becoming less certain and I, the driver, should be on a heightened alert and consider disengaging autopilot all together, especially if the road is curvy.
It's really not as hard as people on the internet seem to be making it.�
Oct 19, 2015
LetsGoFast These poll results are really a home run for Tesla. You very rarely see this level of satisfaction with anything -- people will complain if you hand them free money.�
Oct 19, 2015
S4WRXTTCS After doing a little over 400 miles with most of it with Autopilot I would rate is about a 2, or maybe a 3 out of 5.
It's not very usable in the right lane because it keeps wanting to follow the exit lanes (a known issue).
It's not as smooth as I'd like it. It tends to steer too much like someone looking too closely in front of them. It's constantly correcting and you can feel this if you have your thumb on the wheel.
It gets confused when the lane widens on the right (when in the right lane).
The above are all things it should handle well. I'm sure as with TACC all those areas will be corrected. I don't expect it to work flawlessly, but it doesn't deserve anything more than a C+ right now.
I don't count not tracking well in heavy rain, or losing tracking at every stop light or anything that isn't within it's design parameters.
The funniest thing about it is after 100+ miles with it on, and then turning it off it took me a few moment to learn how to steer again. The car probably thought I was an idiot.�
Oct 19, 2015
andydoty Absolutely! Yes! Yep! You got it!
I just drove to Boston (actually Natick) and back today. Autopilot behaved flawlessly. There was one exception where the dashed lines disappeared and there was staggered white blocks in a zigzag. It felt like I was in a slalom for a moment until I disengaged.
Let me make this as simple as I can. Stop thinking like a person for a minute and think like a computer. I expected the car to misbehave during the zigzag squares. And... So it did. I have found the car (Sparky) to behave EXACTLY as I anticipated in each situation. The exception was trying to dart over into the right hand lane when it splits (or an offramp). However, this is also logical (now I sound like Spock) as the preference would be to remain in the right hand lane (I believe this is a law here in MA). It was pretty surprising however I'll give everyone that.
For those engaging it in a City environment. As you sow so shall you reap! Autopilot is PRIMARILY for use on highways. Not rural roads! At this time.
To that, I have engaged it on a 1/2 hour ride through the country and it did pretty well with the exception of a small clip with no lines or curbs. Now the human part of me says it just feels weird that 70 miles per hour on the highway works but 40 miles per hour on a back road can have issues. Weird, yes?
Personally I think it's the greatest think since cheese with holes in it! But.. That's just me!�
Oct 19, 2015
jlucero i also think its great for highways, and has limited abilities elsewhere. but for a first run, its great...should get better as time goes on!�
Oct 19, 2015
Mark Z My referral from last year finally got the 7.0 software update this morning for his P85. After noon, we both drove with Autopilot. Good results occurred with just enough odd behavior to respect it and keep the hands on the wheel. Turning Autopilot on before a center divider caused the Model S to see the wrong side of the divider and want to turn in that wrong direction. Lesson learned.
Knowing what works and what doesn't is important. Best part of today's experience was reading and going over the details given by Tesla Motors. Teaching others and encouraging the proper use of Autopilot is a good idea to those who normally want to just "try it". Help those who have purchased a Tesla based on your recommendation, they might appreciate the extra care you provide. The original delivery specialist isn't going to be contacting them for training, so consider teaching what you know. These threads are full of lifesaving information. May everyone be careful and learn how Autopilot behaves to avoid any unpleasant experiences.�
Oct 27, 2015
Roamer I absolutely love using it. Amazing what it can do right out of the box. It will only get better from here. Drove 300 miles of varied highway last night. Super easy. I love that all the newly striped roads in AZ have dotted lines in front of exits. Makes it easy for auto pilot to stay locked.�
Oct 28, 2015
sillydriver I totally agree! Yesterday I wrote up a fail in another thread. But as I said then, I could see it coming because of the circumstances and was ready to grab the wheel. If you pay some attention to the information display on the dash while not using AP, it becomes pretty easy to anticipate where AP is going to have a problem, although personally I like Port Salut, Munster, Provolone, Cheddar and Brie, none of which have holes.�
Oct 28, 2015
Terra117 I voted "satisfied".
This is a rather new technology, so its expected that there will be some flaws. I've been far more annoyed by other new automotive technologies early in their use.
My biggest problem with it is that I'm a bit of a control freak. For example, I like to position myself differently in a lane based on what's on either side of me. The AP seems to prefer crowding the right side of the lane a bit too much for my taste. I only position like that if in the rightmost lane.
I also pay close attention to the action of drivers in the cars around me. Are they distracted? Are they checking mirrors like they are planning on making a lane change? Are they holding their relative position in their lane, or drifting left and right in their lane? Are their motions fluid or jerky? Is there someone in front of me making lots of lane changes, and how are those around him reacting? Is there someone weaving their way through traffic coming up behind me? What is their likely path through traffic around me? If that yahoo does something stupid, what are my outs?
All this goes into proactively anticipating and reacting to traffic. AP is probably purely reactive. I know automatous vehicles have a vastly better record than human drivers, so reactive doesn't seem to be a detriment.
I don't know if I will be comfortable handing over control in any kind of heavy urban traffic. To any car. Ever.
That said, I have been very happy on the performance on relatively straight rural roads. I think the current implementation works well with Tesla's Supercharger philosophy - emphasis on long distance, typically rural, interstate travel.
Edit: I also constantly scan the road surface looking for debris, potholes, fluids, and this time of year especially, wet leaves. I don't know how AP would deal with these conditions, and wouldn't want to be the one to find out.
Now that I think more about it, I've had all kinds of creatures run out in front of me on the interstate. I wonder what AP would do about deer darting across the road? Yes, I know the technology is supposed to be "assist", but I think as people get comfortable with the technology, their attention to conditions will fade.�
Oct 28, 2015
Roamer Just did two nights of driving. i have found that now that I don't have to concentrate on the road right in front of me and spend so much effort staying centered in the lane I tend to look further down the road. An hour ago on I 15 I was flying along and spotted a large traffic cone standing almost centered in the roadway. Not something you expect to see standing in the middle of the traffic lanes. I am sure I saw it in time because I was looking far ahead rather than looking at the lane markings right in front of me. Easy maneuver to move the steering wheel which shut down auto steer then recenter in the lane and tap auto back on. I think with out auto steer I would have plowed thru the cone. It was a large cone.�
Oct 28, 2015
Beryl I'd like to see this poll if votes can be changed in 3 months or a new poll if they cannot. Fleet learning may positively affect the results and the end of the honeymoon may have a negative effect.
Either way, I'm thinking that when my vehicle is finally delivered next year, AP will be significantly improved.�
Oct 29, 2015
Roamer It is absolutely amazing. And you are correct that it will keep getting better.�
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