teslamotorclub: Hearing about the D just 9 days after taking delivery of P85+ merits a switch!!! part 1

I want to see if anyone else is in my position with unveiling of the D. I purchased the P85+ on September 17th with every option available except cold weather package as I'm in So Cal. Total cost of the vehicle before taxes was $127k. Typically production takes 4-8 weeks but the employees at my test drive pulled some strings and got a delivery date of Sept 30th which initially I was super exited and impressed about.

The day after I took delivery of my P85+ Elon makes his famous tweet about the D and on October 9th here we have it. The $127k P85+ has now been rolled into the $134K P85D with only a $7k price increase and the P85+ is no longer offered.

I have a major problem with tesla's lack of communication to customers purchasing fully upgraded P85+ so close the the unveiling of the D. I don't want to speculate on Elon's marketing strategy of mysteriousness and surprise but when it comes down to a time frame of weeks, it is clear that buyers paying this amount and clearly looking for the most upgraded model should have been at best informally hinted at the idea to make an informed decision.

It's not like I was a buyer looking at the 85 and debating the price of the leather trim or the upgraded sound system. I clearly wanted every option and expressed it clearly. I also find it hard to believe that the employees themselves didn't know about the D because they kept telling me my car has some "advanced hardware and features that are amazing but cannot be talked about because they haven't been officially released". Of course hinting to the drive and lane assist features.

Now even if I sell my P85+ I'm going to get hit with a huge loss as the difference in monthly cost from what I payed for my P85+ and the D is less than $100.

It is my opinion that customers that purchased the fully upgraded P85+ within a few weeks of the D should have been given for knowledge of the upcoming D due to the immediate time frame.

I have put an email in to Tesla suggesting they allow me to order the D and trade in my P85+ upon delivery and pay only the price difference and 2 month depreciation. What they do is up to them but if they know their target demographic they should do everything to make this right as I'm sure most of us will be purchasing multiple tesla's as we believe in the company and for me am heavily investing in the stock as well.

Has anyone else experienced this situation? I'd love to get feedback/comments/thoughts.
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MY T said: ?

I have put an email in to Tesla suggesting they allow me to order the D and trade in my P85+ upon delivery and pay only the price difference and 2 month depreciation. What they do is up to them but if they know their target demographic they should do everything to make this right as I'm sure most of us will be purchasing multiple tesla's as we believe in the company and for me am heavily investing in the stock as well.

Has anyone else experienced this situation? I'd love to get feedback/comments/thoughts.
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LOL...not their issue. Car companies do not tell customers exactly when new cars are coming out...buyer beware.

They want to sell what they have and no need to inform the consumer.

Good luck with your letter

And yes, your car will tank pretty quick in depreciation...the joys of new car ownership.

$127K is probably worth less than $100K after you factor in $7500 'tax credit'...go have it appraised--you'll be shocked.

BUT, don't worry, ALL do that when you buy new.
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MY T said: ?

I want to see if anyone else is in my position with unveiling of the D. I purchased the P85+ on September 17th with every option available except cold weather package as I'm in So Cal. Total cost of the vehicle before taxes was $127k. Typically production takes 4-8 weeks but the employees at my test drive pulled some strings and got a delivery date of Sept 30th which initially I was super exited and impressed about.

The day after I took delivery of my P85+ Elon makes his famous tweet about the D and on October 9th here we have it. The $127k P85+ has now been rolled into the $134K P85D with only a $7k price increase and the P85+ is no longer offered.

I have a major problem with tesla's lack of communication to customers purchasing fully upgraded P85+ so close the the unveiling of the D. I don't want to speculate on Elon's marketing strategy of mysteriousness and surprise but when it comes down to a time frame of weeks, it is clear that buyers paying this amount and clearly looking for the most upgraded model should have been at best informally hinted at the idea to make an informed decision.

It's not like I was a buyer looking at the 85 and debating the price of the leather trim or the upgraded sound system. I clearly wanted every option and expressed it clearly. I also find it hard to believe that the employees themselves didn't know about the D because they kept telling me my car has some "advanced hardware and features that are amazing but cannot be talked about because they haven't been officially released". Of course hinting to the drive and lane assist features.

Now even if I sell my P85+ I'm going to get hit with a huge loss as the difference in monthly cost from what I payed for my P85+ and the D is less than $100.

It is my opinion that customers that purchased the fully upgraded P85+ within a few weeks of the D should have been given for knowledge of the upcoming D due to the immediate time frame.

I have put an email in to Tesla suggesting they allow me to order the D and trade in my P85+ upon delivery and pay only the price difference and 2 month depreciation. What they do is up to them but if they know their target demographic they should do everything to make this right as I'm sure most of us will be purchasing multiple tesla's as we believe in the company and for me am heavily investing in the stock as well.

Has anyone else experienced this situation? I'd love to get feedback/comments/thoughts.
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Seems there are numerous similar threads
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I agree that this sort of thing is a bit frustrating. I apparently missed the autopilot features by a day or two (my car finished production Sep 20th), and I missed the D by a little over a month.

That said, if they told you 10 days in advance, someone would complain because they ordered their car 12 days before. If they announced the D a month earlier, someone who ordered their car 2 months ago would be upset. Tesla has done nothing wrong. They had to announce new features at some point. Someone will always have purchased just a bit too early.
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This is going to keep happening. Right after I got mine early 2013 they introduced the "+" package and many others felt the same way as you do today. There's nothing you can do about this as long as Tesla sticks to the "improve as you go" model instead of the year by year model changes. Employees of Tesla aren't even told about these things anymore due to leaks that kept happening. Sorry but there's not much u can do. If you want the D best to sell now and re-order.
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If I had only known that Tesla was going to introduce parking sensors, the + package, a lighter car by a couple hundred pounds, the D package, new seats, and now driver assisted navigation, all of which were not only not available, but not even announced, when I took delivery . . . I gladly would have taken delivery of my car anyway. Sorry, with any car manufacturer (but especially with Tesla), technology and features are constantly changing. If you want the latest and greatest, either trade in the car for a new one every six months or year, or never buy one.
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With traditional manufacturers you know that changes like this come with the model year changeover. With Tesla, it's a continuum. I almost think with a change like this they should discontinue the + for a period of time giving anyone trying to order that a change is coming.
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Thanks for your thoughts. It's always good to get other people's input. I can't help but imaging however that most car companies do announce such changes in advance allowing customers to make more informed decisions. Even tech companies like apple announce the unveiling of new products. It appears that Elons quest to be mysterious is really the issue at hand. A simple announcement of an upcoming feature would be prudent enough to allow potential buyers to make informed decisions. So in that case I do blame Tesla's marketing strategy a little.

I already got an initial response from Tesla. I'll update the result when I get more info.
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Killface said: ?

That said, if they told you 10 days in advance, someone would complain because they ordered their car 12 days before. If they announced the D a month earlier, someone who ordered their car 2 months ago would be upset. Tesla has done nothing wrong. They had to announce new features at some point. Someone will always have purchased just a bit too early.
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SFOTurtle said: ?

If I had only known that Tesla was going to introduce parking sensors, the + package, a lighter car by a couple hundred pounds, the D package, new seats, and now driver assisted navigation, all of which were not only not available, but not even announced, when I took delivery . . . I gladly would have taken delivery of my car anyway. Sorry, but especially with Tesla but also with any car manufacturer, technology and features are constantly changing.
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^^^ This.

I paid far more than any fully-optioned Model S for my Roadster Sport ... and it has been completely eclipsed by better charging technology, better batteries, better interior, roomier, faster, better tech, blah blah blah. I could always wait for the next best thing, and I'd still be waiting. Instead, I've been driving a Tesla. That's 3.5 years of fun that the latest technology can't give me, no matter how cool it is.

And I KNOW that once I take delivery of my Model X, it will quickly be surpassed by cooler and newer features on the next Model X to be shipped ... but I will still be driving the Model X I paid for. And I'll have had a lot more fun in the meantime than those waiting around for the next cool new feature. I'm not going to spend my life worrying about what other people received that I may or may not have received - as long as I received what I paid for. That just seems like a not fun way to spend my life.
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Fine if you don't mind the little depreciation hit you will get but the cycle will never end. There will be many upgrades in the coming years, bigger battery, better screen and faster processor, refreshed exterior/interior or even new body styles etc. I'll still keep my regular upgrade schedule and get all the new stuff in one shot.
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CarlK said: ?

Fine if you don't mind the little depreciation hit you will get but the cycle will never end. There will be many upgrades in the coming years, bigger battery, better screen and faster processor, refreshed exterior/interior or even new body styles etc. I'll still keep my regular upgrade schedule and get all the new stuff in one shot.
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Clearly I don't. I've had a Roadster for 3.5 years, have moderated this forum and know the Model S rollout better than almost anyone, and am waiting on my X. I prefer Tesla's model with new features showing up in my garage via sw updates from time to time.

I don't like dealerships, either.
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bonnie said: ?

I paid far more than any fully-optioned Model S for my Roadster Sport ... and it has been completely eclipsed by better charging technology, better batteries, better interior, roomier, faster, better tech, blah blah blah. I could always wait for the next best thing, and I'd still be waiting. Instead, I've been driving a Tesla. That's 3.5 years of fun that the latest technology can't give me, no matter how cool it is.
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That's pretty much where I stand on the issue (although only 1.5 years for me). Tesla upgrades continuously, so who knows by how much these fancy new "D"s will be eclipsed in another few months. I bought my car with the intention of keeping it 3 to 4 years and that's what I'm going to do.
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My point in the D is that this is essentially a completely new model s as far as function and performance. It's not like past additions with adding sensors, performance bushings/suspension, taking weight off, etc. It is also the first time Tesla is completely replacing a current upgrade and no longer offering it in the +. This, in my opinion merits some communication of an announcement a head of time. Like the model x. Like the Model 3. I liked the earlier post of discontinuing the + for a few months a head of time. Giving potential buyers the understanding that there is a major change and the ability to make an informed decision. Completely outside the scope of normal upgrades like mentioned above.
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MY T said: ?

I can't help but imaging however that most car companies do announce such changes in advance allowing customers to make more informed decisions.
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He did announce it. He announced it 3 months in advance. They don't start delivering until December/Jan.
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All newly order models are taking delivery in December/Jan. An announcement would be the ability to order in December/Jan with future delivery dates. This was more of a guess what you now order this completely different vehicle right now.........
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MY T said: ?

I purchased the P85+ on September 17th ... [T]he employees at my test drive pulled some strings and got a delivery date of Sept 30th which initially I was super exited [sic] and impressed about.

The day after I took delivery of my P85+ Elon makes his famous tweet about the D and on October 9th here we have it. The $127k P85+ has now been rolled into the $134K P85D with only a $7k price increase and the P85+ is no longer offered.

I have a major problem with tesla's lack of communication to customers purchasing fully upgraded P85+ so close the the unveiling of the D. ...

Now even if I sell my P85+ I'm going to get hit with a huge loss ...
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Now let me see if I understand this.

A. You order your car on 17 September.
B. You somehow talk Tesla into bumping you wa-a-a-y up the line, to just under two weeks from order to delivery.
1. That means that for every day your delivery was advanced, some other person's delivery is bumped out one day (assumes fixed number of cars built each day)
C. You are now displeased because you jumped the line and so miss out on the option to upgrade your order to the latest Tesla has to offer.

I have been waiting for my Tesla since 3 July. My latest tentative delivery date is 19 November.

I think this is one of the finest examples of poetic justice I've come across in a long time!

Tesla being Tesla, I'm sure they'll bend over backwards to work with you to a mutually satisfactory conclusion.
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Clearly you don't understand. Your assumptions on the intent, logistics, and prejudiced surrounding the time line from purchase to delivery are superfluous at best. You offer no contribution to this discussion thread topic, and your comments seem based purely on your own indisposition about your situation. Unless of course living in SC you have an inside understanding of the manufacturing process of tesla's here in California?? I didn't think so.
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Yeah, if you scan the other threads, your not gonna get any sympathy from the agile CI crowd here. You're just supposed to deal with it. As more people get burned (sorry, I mean experience the benefits of CI) over time it will be interesting to see which way public opinion actually swings in regard to this paradigm.

IMHO as someone who in the past had followed other luxury car boards, it's rare for an aficionado to get totally blindsided in this way about new features, body style etc. Even in the model year domain where manufacturers try to hush things up before the cars hit the website or showroom, there's always a leak, someone spots a test mule driving around, etc. People know to be vigilant around new model year time in general and close to the model's refresh year in particular. So at a minimum, you're usually well informed enough to either decide to buy the current model year (maybe because you don't like something about the new version) or get psyched about what's new and place an order/wait for the new version to show up on the ground.

That just doesn't work in Tesla's world. You're supposed to be happy for the person in the next stall over taking delivery, who paid the same price as you did, perhaps ordered after you did, but unwittingly gets all the new features thanks to Brownian motion, fate, or whatever randomness you choose to believe in.

You are happy about that...right? Especially since they "did you a favor" by making sure they moved one more (formerly) top of the line car over the curb before the successor was announced.

Continuous improvement, indeed.
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MY T said: ?

Clearly you don't understand. Your assumptions on the intent, logistics, and prejudiced surrounding the time line from purchase to delivery are superfluous at best. You offer no contribution to this discussion thread topic, and your comments seem based purely on your own indisposition about your situation. Unless of course living in SC you have an inside understanding of the manufacturing process of tesla's here in California?? I didn't think so.
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And living in California doesn't give us any inside understanding, either. Unless I am missing something.
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Atebit, thank you for the explanation on the culture of the members here. I was hoping for more of a structured dialog on pros and cons and relating it back to Tesla brand, image, and marketing strategy and how the different layers and experience are perceived at the customer level since I've only been and investor since the beginning and now a new owner. I didn't get that here and now I know why so thank you.
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My guess is they had a P85+ with the proper configuration in the line already or already built where someone was unable to make final payment. I've heard that this is how some of the demo and loaner cars are commissioned also.
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So when should Tesla announce their new features? 3 months ahead? 5 months? A year? Someone is always going to be upset because they ordered 5 days before the announcement came out.

Or, we can go to model year and orders will dry up a few months in advance, Tesla can idle workers, lose cash flow and raise the price of their cars to compensate. Oh, and people will still complain because they ordered a week before the new model year specs came out.
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Atebit said: ?

there's always a leak, someone spots a test mule driving around, etc. <snip>That just doesn't work in Tesla's world.
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How don't they work? Both these features were announced outright many months ago by Elon himself, both of them had tons of coverage in the media. Test mules for both were spotted driving around, and again generated press coverage. The timeline estimates were pretty much dead on too.

There's a reason that all the news sites guessed right about what was going to be released at the event, it's because the whole world already knew!

Nobody has been "burned", everybody has got everything that they ordered, and some lucky people have even got more. There's absolutely no downside.
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MY T said: ?

I want to see if anyone else is in my position with unveiling of the D. I purchased the P85+ on September 17th with every option available except cold weather package as I'm in So Cal. Total cost of the vehicle before taxes was $127k. Typically production takes 4-8 weeks but the employees at my test drive pulled some strings and got a delivery date of Sept 30th which initially I was super exited and impressed about.

The day after I took delivery of my P85+ Elon makes his famous tweet about the D and on October 9th here we have it. The $127k P85+ has now been rolled into the $134K P85D with only a $7k price increase and the P85+ is no longer offered.

I have a major problem with tesla's lack of communication to customers purchasing fully upgraded P85+ so close the the unveiling of the D. I don't want to speculate on Elon's marketing strategy of mysteriousness and surprise but when it comes down to a time frame of weeks, it is clear that buyers paying this amount and clearly looking for the most upgraded model should have been at best informally hinted at the idea to make an informed decision.

It's not like I was a buyer looking at the 85 and debating the price of the leather trim or the upgraded sound system. I clearly wanted every option and expressed it clearly. I also find it hard to believe that the employees themselves didn't know about the D because they kept telling me my car has some "advanced hardware and features that are amazing but cannot be talked about because they haven't been officially released". Of course hinting to the drive and lane assist features.

Now even if I sell my P85+ I'm going to get hit with a huge loss as the difference in monthly cost from what I payed for my P85+ and the D is less than $100.

It is my opinion that customers that purchased the fully upgraded P85+ within a few weeks of the D should have been given for knowledge of the upcoming D due to the immediate time frame.

I have put an email in to Tesla suggesting they allow me to order the D and trade in my P85+ upon delivery and pay only the price difference and 2 month depreciation. What they do is up to them but if they know their target demographic they should do everything to make this right as I'm sure most of us will be purchasing multiple tesla's as we believe in the company and for me am heavily investing in the stock as well.

Has anyone else experienced this situation? I'd love to get feedback/comments/thoughts.
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my vin is in the 5000,s. The car is now 19 months old. I want a redo too. I never thought they would try to improve the car. It is so unfair. Actually joke that my next plates should be antique one
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Atebit said: ?

IMHO as someone who in the past had followed other luxury car boards, it's rare for an aficionado to get totally blindsided in this way about new features, body style etc. Even in the model year domain where manufacturers try to hush things up before the cars hit the website or showroom, there's always a leak, someone spots a test mule driving around, etc. People know to be vigilant around new model year time in general and close to the model's refresh year in particular. So at a minimum, you're usually well informed enough to either decide to buy the current model year (maybe because you don't like something about the new version) or get psyched about what's new and place an order/wait for the new version to show up on the ground.
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As posted over in another forum, it was the world's worst kept secret over the last several years ...

bonnie said: ?

World's worst kept secret. Just a sampling of threads on this forum, discussing Model S AWD (months and years before now). Same thing over on Tesla Motors forum.

torque vectoring in AWD Model S 4/12/2014
AWD Model S 2/4/2014
Is an AWD Model S Necessary? 6/15/2012
Regen on AWD model S 1/14/2011
Why Would You Buy A Model X over an AWD Model S 11/10/2012?

Some media articles about it,

Imagine This: AWD Tesla Model S and X With 100-Plus kWh Battery - Tesla CEO Hints At Future Arrival | Inside EVs Feb 2014
Elon Musk Hints at All-Wheel-Drive Tesla Model S Arriving in 2015 - Photo Gallery of Car News from Car and Driver - Car Images
Is This A Tesla Model S AWD Prototype Caught Testing? (Video, Photos) March 2014?

And many many more.
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JohnQ said: ?

So when should Tesla announce their new features? 3 months ahead? 5 months? A year? Someone is always going to be upset because they ordered 5 days before the announcement came out.

Or, we can go to model year and orders will dry up a few months in advance, Tesla can idle workers, lose cash flow and raise the price of their cars to compensate. Oh, and people will still complain because they ordered a week before the new model year specs came out.
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^^^^^^ This should be the sticky quote for all Tesla buyers.
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It's not a matter of what car companies do or don't, it's a matter of customer satisfaction. In that case we have a customer that is not happy and that's a fact. I am in the same boat - my P85 was delivered on September 25th without the new sensors. It was initially scheduled to be delivered on September 29th. If Tesla was not in a hurry to push deliveries for their Q3 results, I would have received the sensors. As a results we have another unhappy customer.
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I think that everyone was expecting that when 4WD was added, it would be great for the guys driving in heavy snow...yeah a little more grip and confidence (bla bla bla), maybe .1 or .2 faster to 60...whatever, a little loss of range, perhaps inferior steering feel...on balance no big deal. What really [annoys] the P85+ crowd is the mind-blowing 3.2 seconds to 60 and the improved range, for just a few thousand $$$ extra. Tesla did not merely exceed expectations, they blew them into the next spiral arm of the galaxy. Kudos to Tesla.
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pzz said: ?

It's not a matter of what car companies do or don't, it's a matter of customer satisfaction. In that case we have a customer that is not happy and that's a fact. I am in the same boat - my P85 was delivered on September 25th without the new sensors. It was initially scheduled to be delivered on September 29th. If Tesla was not in a hurry to push deliveries for their Q3 results, I would have received the sensors. As a results we have another unhappy customer.
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Did you get exactly what you ordered on the website at the time you ordered?
Did you pay exactly what you were quoted?

What are you unhappy about? Someone else had something great happen to them, that's fine. but absolutely nothing bad has happened to you. Quite whining that someone else had something good happen to them, and enjoy the fact that you got your car earlier than expected, and exactly as ordered.
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green1 said: ?

How don't they work? Both these features were announced outright many months ago by Elon himself, both of them had tons of coverage in the media.
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Indeed, many folks that unwittingly got sensors are also enjoying the long-heralded CHAdeMO adapters as well, right? That was supposed to already be available months ago. AD features were supposed to become available in about 9-12 months from the date of the announcement, based on previous press coverage, but were in fact already shipping.

Many people here seem to think we're getting wrapped around the axle about the "why", but I think it's more about the "how".
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My 85 was delivered on September 25th. I was supposed to get delivery later in October (my previous lease was over late October) and I was in no rush. I did not ask to be moved up. I received my car with not enough mileage to go home. My car has been in for service 3 times since I have taken delivery of the car. I am tremendously disappointed with my experience thus far. I have been waiting for the right time to get this car for a long time. I would have been very happy to wait for my car, especially knowing what I do now. I understand that Tesla doesn't want an idle factory, but who exactly decides who got the newer hardware vs who didn't? Just a crap shoot? I am unhappy that my car hasn't met my service expectations. I doubt Tesla will do anything for me. I am ready to put in orders for a model S for my dad and a model X for my wife. I am happy that they will get the new features. I don't think jealousy applies. I think a tesla owner who has owned the car for a few months or longer understands that there has to be a cutoff somewhere. The switch during production, moving customers who would have gotten the newer hardware, that is something I just don't understand.
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Atebit said: ?

That just doesn't work in Tesla's world. You're supposed to be happy for the person in the next stall over taking delivery, who paid the same price as you did, perhaps ordered after you did, but unwittingly gets all the new features thanks to Brownian motion, fate, or whatever randomness you choose to believe in.
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Yes, right. You got it now. Just don't say it sarcastically and truly live it. You'll probably find your life gets better with an attitude of gratitude rather than resentment.
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pzz said: ?

... I am in the same boat - my P85 was delivered on September 25th without the new sensors. It was initially scheduled to be delivered on September 29th. If Tesla was not in a hurry to push deliveries for their Q3 results, I would have received the sensors. As a results we have another unhappy customer.
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Probably not. If Tesla had run a slower production rate, most likely the sensors would have just appeared later. Certainly they picked a place in the assembly line to make the change, rather than a date when the car exited the line.
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adelman said: ?

Probably not. If Tesla had run a slower production rate, most likely the sensors would have just appeared later. Certainly they picked a place in the assembly line to make the change, rather than a date when the car exited the line.
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Ah. Exactly right. Someone who understands how a manufacturing change is cut in.
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Canuck said: ?

Yes, right. You got it now. Just don't say it sarcastically and truly live it. You'll probably find your life gets better with an attitude of gratitude rather than resentment.
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Hear, Hear! That's the attitude, everyone benefits from this. There's no benefit for anyone of feeling resentful because something good happened to another person. You either feel horrible, (and usually try to take others with you), or you deprive the other person of the good thing that happened to them. There's no possible good outcome.

Society as a whole benefits when you are happy, not just when good things happen to you, but when good things happen to others too. There's far too much negativity in this world, there's no reason to add to it by twisting good news to bad.

I'm not saying to never be upset, but reserve it for when something bad happens (either to you, or to another) not for when something good happens that you just didn't happen to participate in.
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Canuck said: ?

Yes, right. You got it now. Just don't say it sarcastically and truly live it. You'll probably find your life gets better with an attitude of gratitude rather than resentment.
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I thought this thread was about customer experience, but it seems to keep circling back to life-coaching. "Satisfaction" is a subjective thing. While I think it's relevant for you to tell me why you feel satisfied, I don't think you ought to be admonishing people for feeling otherwise.
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I feel you, luckly I changed my order just in time. The excitement of the P85+ would have been overshadowed by the P85D but you can always trade it in. With the announcement of Tesla managing used vehicles I'm sure it will soon be an easy process. People will line up to buy your optioned P85+ with super low miles and no wait.

Years ago I got a great car under the same circumstances. A guy had bought the Volvo S60T right before the S60R came out. We bought his T the same day he took delivery of the R, win win.
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@MY T: Tesla delivered to you exactly the car you ordered. It was an awesome car on the day you took delivery, and it is still a awesome car. Consider yourself fortunate to be able to afford and enjoy such an incredible vehicle.

You can of course "upgrade" by selling your P85+ and buying a new P85D. Your choice.
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Atebit said: ?

I thought this thread was about customer experience, but it seems to keep circling back to life-coaching. "Satisfaction" is a subjective thing. While I think it's relevant for you to tell me why you feel satisfied, I don't think you ought to be admonishing people for feeling otherwise.
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I can't even figure out where the "bad customer experience" is?

The people who didn't get the sensors got exactly what they ordered, at the price they agreed to, and in some cases they even got it EARLY, that to me says great customer experience.

The people who did get the sensors got what they ordered, at the price they agreed to, and a free bonus, that to me says even better customer experience.

Nobody has yet come up with a negative customer experience to share here. I keep waiting for the person who can say they ordered the sensors but didn't get them... but interestingly enough, Tesla didn't do that to anyone.
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green1 said: ?

Hear, Hear! That's the attitude, everyone benefits from this. There's no benefit for anyone of feeling resentful because something good happened to another person. You either feel horrible, (and usually try to take others with you), or you deprive the other person of the good thing that happened to them. There's no possible good outcome.

Society as a whole benefits when you are happy, not just when good things happen to you, but when good things happen to others too. There's far too much negativity in this world, there's no reason to add to it by twisting good news to bad.

I'm not saying to never be upset, but reserve it for when something bad happens (either to you, or to another) not for when something good happens that you just didn't happen to participate in.
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insacausa didn't get to participate because of Tesla. He was given his car early when he did not want it early. It is Tesla's fault that he did not get to participate. No one seems to have answered him or shot his complaint down in flames; I wonder why?
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green1 said: ?

I can't even figure out where the "bad customer experience" is?
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http://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/subjective
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Atebit said: ?

^http://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/subjective
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Lol
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MY T said: ?

I want to see if anyone else is in my position with unveiling of the D. I purchased the P85+ on September 17th with every option available except cold weather package as I'm in So Cal. Total cost of the vehicle before taxes was $127k. Typically production takes 4-8 weeks but the employees at my test drive pulled some strings and got a delivery date of Sept 30th which initially I was super exited and impressed about.

The day after I took delivery of my P85+ Elon makes his famous tweet about the D and on October 9th here we have it. The $127k P85+ has now been rolled into the $134K P85D with only a $7k price increase and the P85+ is no longer offered.
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I feel for you. I don't know what the solution would be, but nevertheless, I can definitely empathize with your situation.
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PeterW said: ?

insacausa didn't get to participate because of Tesla. He was given his car early when he did not want it early. It is Tesla's fault that he did not get to participate. No one seems to have answered him or shot his complaint down in flames; I wonder why?
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Is he complaining that he got it early? or that it doesn't have sensors? If he didn't want it early he could have insisted that the delivery specialist keep it on the Tesla lot until he was ready, I'm sure they would have been willing.

He didn't order sensors, so he has no grounds to complain about not getting something he didn't order, he sounds to me like he falls in to the "great customer experience" category to me... everything he asked for was delivered, at the price he asked for, they even delivered it early, which appears to be at worst a neutral item for him as I'm sure he would have asked them to hold it in their lot if he wasn't ready.
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green1 said: ?

Is he complaining that he got it early? or that it doesn't have sensors? If he didn't want it early he could have insisted that the delivery specialist keep it on the Tesla lot until he was ready, I'm sure they would have been willing.
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If he told them before they built it he didn't want it early they wouldn't have built it. If you've followed order status through August/September it was very clear Tesla was rearranging production to minimize inventory at the end of the quarter. Investors don't care how many cars they built, they care how many cars they sold. Beyond that from what I saw, the service centers where they were doing deliveries were full of cars (Seattle's lot was very full when I picked up and they even had cars taking up room inside). So no they were not going to just park his car for a month.

He didn't order sensors, so he has no grounds to complain about not getting something he didn't order, he sounds to me like he falls in to the "great customer experience" category to me... everything he asked for was delivered, at the price he asked for, they even delivered it early, which appears to be at worst a neutral item for him as I'm sure he would have asked them to hold it in their lot if he wasn't ready.
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Once again, you're missing the point of the problem. He didn't know the consequences of the early delivery. He didn't have the information to tell them to delay it. I was in the same boat. I jumped through quite a few hoops to be able to pay for the car in their accelerated time frame. Quite frankly, I did Tesla a favor by taking delivery a month early since it certainly will help their Q3 numbers. For that favor I got the short end of the stick.

For what it's worth, I don't have an issue with how Tesla handled AWD, which as I understand it is what this thread is about. A P85+ order delivered before the D was even announced being unhappy because they didn't get the car that they aren't delivering for 2 more months. I understand the disappointment though.

If I could trade my car I might be tempted to order the D version (though I'm not sure it's worth it). But I don't feel slighted by missing out on that.
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breser said: ?

I might be tempted to order the D version (though I'm not sure it's worth it). But I don't feel slighted by missing out on that.
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Thing is, there's actually absolutely zero difference between the two. Both are items that were not available to order when you did, both are items that you didn't get.

The only difference is that someone other than you happened to get a "freebie" on one of them. You keep thinking that had you done this, or that, that you might have been able to wrangle your way in to that select category, and therefore bump someone else out of it. but there's no guarantee that anything could have changed that. Either way, it's not relevant. You got exactly what you expected to get when you placed your order. Someone else had something wonderful happen to them, that's not a bad thing for you, it's a good thing for them.
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green1 said: ?

Thing is, there's actually absolutely zero difference between the two. Both are items that were not available to order when you did, both are items that you didn't get.

The only difference is that someone other than you happened to get a "freebie" on one of them. You keep thinking that had you done this, or that, that you might have been able to wrangle your way in to that select category, and therefore bump someone else out of it. but there's no guarantee that anything could have changed that. Either way, it's not relevant. You got exactly what you expected to get when you placed your order. Someone else had something wonderful happen to them, that's not a bad thing for you, it's a good thing for them.
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There's no doubt that if I had declined Late September delivery and taken delivery in Late October I would have received them. My DS flat out told me they would delay building the car if that's what I wanted and told me I needed to tell him soon. Yes given the way they did things that might have moved someone else up. That's not necessarily how it had to be done.

They cut the new sensors into the line for all cars. They could have dealt with it as an option and then cars with that option attached would have gotten it. Make it a hidden option that gets added when you ordered after the announcement. Yes it would have added another factor in their configuration complexity for a quarter. Once that's done all they have to do is announce the product and then let customers decide what to do.

I'm betting the primary driver of them not doing that was either not thinking about the consequences for those of us on the border (very possible). Or simply not wanting to do it since they didn't want to risk ending up with some additional inventory at quarter end. Sorry, but I don't feel bad for Tesla about their inventory. They didn't really hit their numbers, they just shuffled things around in order to make it appear that way. In the end customers ate that as either delays or orders being re-sequenced in a way that didn't benefit them.

I don't have to be happy that Tesla did something that was negative for me just to prop up their investors.
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breser said: ?

I don't have to be happy that Tesla did something that was negative for me just to prop up their investors.
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Except nothing they did was negative for you. It was all exactly what you ordered. If early delivery was a problem you could have told them not to. You didn't, you chose the delivery. They gave you the choice, and you chose.

You should be happy that you got an amazing vehicle, at exactly the price you agreed to.

Don't be upset because someone else got a freebie. You're jealous. I get it, it's natural, but it's not something to be proud of.
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I just got mine on 9-30 and I'm OK about it. I got all the new tech sensors (f yeah!). The car is a complete blast and a beauty to boot. Normally I'm the kind of guy who thinks "dammit, already obsolete'. But I just don't feel that with my "Miss" (she is a lady, of course. A nasty one at that!). I love the RWD and while the 3.2 is unbelievably alluring, the reported 3.8 for the SW upgrade to 6.xx for the P85+RWD (is that what we call her now?) is still completely shocking and actually very useful!
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MY T said: ?

I want to see if anyone else is in my position with unveiling of the D. I purchased the P85+ on September 17th with every option available except cold weather package as I'm in So Cal. Total cost of the vehicle before taxes was $127k. Typically production takes 4-8 weeks but the employees at my test drive pulled some strings and got a delivery date of Sept 30th which initially I was super exited and impressed about.

The day after I took delivery of my P85+ Elon makes his famous tweet about the D and on October 9th here we have it. The $127k P85+ has now been rolled into the $134K P85D with only a $7k price increase and the P85+ is no longer offered.

I have a major problem with tesla's lack of communication to customers purchasing fully upgraded P85+ so close the the unveiling of the D. I don't want to speculate on Elon's marketing strategy of mysteriousness and surprise but when it comes down to a time frame of weeks, it is clear that buyers paying this amount and clearly looking for the most upgraded model should have been at best informally hinted at the idea to make an informed decision.

It's not like I was a buyer looking at the 85 and debating the price of the leather trim or the upgraded sound system. I clearly wanted every option and expressed it clearly. I also find it hard to believe that the employees themselves didn't know about the D because they kept telling me my car has some "advanced hardware and features that are amazing but cannot be talked about because they haven't been officially released". Of course hinting to the drive and lane assist features.

Now even if I sell my P85+ I'm going to get hit with a huge loss as the difference in monthly cost from what I payed for my P85+ and the D is less than $100.

It is my opinion that customers that purchased the fully upgraded P85+ within a few weeks of the D should have been given for knowledge of the upcoming D due to the immediate time frame.

I have put an email in to Tesla suggesting they allow me to order the D and trade in my P85+ upon delivery and pay only the price difference and 2 month depreciation. What they do is up to them but if they know their target demographic they should do everything to make this right as I'm sure most of us will be purchasing multiple tesla's as we believe in the company and for me am heavily investing in the stock as well.

Has anyone else experienced this situation? I'd love to get feedback/comments/thoughts.
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I rarely comments on TMC since there are so many obtuse fan that will defend Tesla to death even on any circumstance, so if you have complains probably TMC won�t be the place unless you want to hear that you are wrong.

Tesla is more a technology company than a traditional car manufacture, they are offering an amazing car however they are playing catch up on many things that are available even on 30K cars. Tesla can�t wait a year to release new features and they are released as soon they have it, soon they will be at the same features of the rest of the cars, and this kind of situations will sound less painful.

I sympathize with your situation and I understand that you bought a 127K maxed out toy that got �obsolete� after two weeks, I paid almost 100K for a car WITHOUT parking sensors, however you and me got what was paid for, P85D is 7K more expensive, so for 127K you can�t get a P85D, so Tesla really hasn�t cheat on you.

Signature customers paid a huge price, they were early adopters and trust the company was going to give them the best they have, and Tesla did that at that time, one and half year later the Signature is the worst Model S Tesla has produced.

However I�m 100% sure Tesla knows this and understand it, Tesla don�t want to sell only the cars they have, they really want happy customers and they will do whatever is in their power, but not to make it fair since I feel there is no unfair here, you bought the car a specific day for which didn�t have the new options.

I�m sure if you enable a good dialog and provide evidence that you won�t be happy with the car after delivery then they may be able to reallocate the car, be prepared for things like delays, pay the difference for a P85D and may be about 5K between papers to reallocate the car for another customer at a discount.

However once you drive 100ft on this car, your options will be greatly reduced, this needs to be solved before delivery, knowing Tesla by a real personal experience (even much weirder than this one) they will do whatever they can to make you happy. If they can�t do it then honestly I believe is beyond their control.

Make them feel they broke your heart, trust me, they don�t want unhappy customers.

By the way, I had a Model X reservation, however after my personal experience I cancelled the reservation and I�ll patiently wait one year of Model X on the street before buy the Model X.

I'm super happy with my Model S as it is, when I change it in 6 years for a newer model will be better than any other Model S currently produced, technology at work.
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green1 said: ?

Except nothing they did was negative for you. It was all exactly what you ordered. If early delivery was a problem you could have told them not to. You didn't, you chose the delivery. They gave you the choice, and you chose.
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Without the information as to the consequences of that decision.

You should be happy that you got an amazing vehicle, at exactly the price you agreed to.
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Why because other places charge you more than you agree and you get less than what you ordered? Setting the expectations really low. Next you'll be telling me I should be happy it works and isn't in the shop.

Don't be upset because someone else got a freebie. You're jealous. I get it, it's natural, but it's not something to be proud of.
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Once again, I'm not going to let you tell me what my emotions are. I'm frustrated that I didn't get to make a choice with all the information about the consequences of the choice. The owners on the other side of this didn't get to make that choice either. There might even be some that are unhappy (e.g. didn't want sensors on their bumper and preferred the clean look).
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JohnQ said: ?

So when should Tesla announce their new features? 3 months ahead? 5 months? A year? Someone is always going to be upset because they ordered 5 days before the announcement came out.

Or, we can go to model year and orders will dry up a few months in advance, Tesla can idle workers, lose cash flow and raise the price of their cars to compensate. Oh, and people will still complain because they ordered a week before the new model year specs came out.
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I originally intended to read this whole thread but the entitlement and whiny butthurt became too overwhelming before the end of page three. So I'll just give JohnQ's post a:

+1.
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Just reading this thread changed my opinion on whether I'd even want to be the kind of person who would buy a P-version Tesla.
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OK. I have a solution to prevent all this angst in the future:

ELON, STOP INNOVATING!

Never make another change to the Model S. Some folks will feel they got shafted if they miss out on it.

Is that satisfactory?

Sheesh!
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Or another way to look at it: "May the odds of getting the latest features forever be in your favor".
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Folks can justify and rationalize reasons for being upset, but it really comes down to jealousy and envy. "I want what they have". You don�t have to be Christian to understand how this parable applies:

Matthew 20:1-16

� But he answered one of them, �I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn�t you agree to work for a denarius? Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. Don�t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?
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breser said: ?

I don't have to be happy that Tesla did something that was negative for me just to prop up their investors.
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There have been a dozen posts in this thread that I wanted to respond to, but I think my point to this one probably embodies what seems to be applicable to most of them:

Not receiving an additional positive is not the same as receiving a negative.
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jhs_7645 said: ?

.../ You don�t have to be Christian to understand how this parable applies:

Matthew 20:1-16

� But he answered one of them, �I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn�t you agree to work for a denarius? Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. Don�t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?
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...and that basic argument predates Matthew by a couple of thousand years (at least).
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scaesare said: ?

Not receiving an additional positive is not the same as receiving a negative.
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I couldn't agree more. I'm one of those that just missed, but I'm happy. I got what I ordered, and on time as well.
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I would be pissed if I bought a P85+ and the next day the P85D became available. I understand. So why not LEASE next time? Get the latest & greatest every 2 or 3 years automatically. What is your solution to assure that you will always have the newest technology if that is important to you?
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alexkiritz said: ?

Just reading this thread changed my opinion on whether I'd even want to be the kind of person who would buy a P-version Tesla.
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+1

I didn't realize having the financial wherewithal to buy a $120,000 car makes you an inherently better person (or just more important) than someone with a $20,000 car. Thanks to the OP for setting me straight.

Too bad money doesn't buy humility, too...
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Killface said: ?

I agree that this sort of thing is a bit frustrating. I apparently missed the autopilot features by a day or two (my car finished production Sep 20th), and I missed the D by a little over a month.

That said, if they told you 10 days in advance, someone would complain because they ordered their car 12 days before. If they announced the D a month earlier, someone who ordered their car 2 months ago would be upset. Tesla has done nothing wrong. They had to announce new features at some point. Someone will always have purchased just a bit too early.
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This is the main problem. It sucks for the people affected but there is always someone on the 'wrong' side of a deadline like that. Make it 10 days and person who took delivery 11 days ago is pissed. Make it 30 days and the 31 day person is pissed....etc

Also, you can't have a big Apple style event with free press like Tesla likes if you give everyone a month's heads up.

I do understand people being a little upset but not much Tesla can do. A loaded P85+ is still an awesome car. If you think about it, while the D is awesome, it had the same battery pack. I'd opt for keeping your new car for a year or two and seeing when Tesla comes out with a P100D or something similar.
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People need to stop whining.

Everyone got what they ordered. No matter when they announced the update, or announced the update to the update, someone will have just ordered before then. Sorry, just go with it. The fact that Tesla seems to be working with some people who have orders in but not taken delivery to switch to the D is more than enough customer service on their part, IMO.

I love my P85. But you know what, I like the P85D better. Does Tesla owe me a P85D or something else because I'm an owner? Of course not.

My solution? I ordered a P85D.
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dsm363 said: ?

A loaded P85+ is still an awesome car.
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I'm wondering if these might not be an eventual collector's item down the road.
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Would it have been better if you received your car 3 months ago instead? 6 months ago? You would have the same hit in resale value. The only thing you would have gained is a few months of knowing you had a top of the line model, for whatever that is worth.

There will always be something better in the future. Those who are buying their lower tier models now will get Autopilot but they'll be missing out on the new seat design that will inevitably be offered in all models at some point. Who knows what amazing new hardware will come out next year too.

Your car did not suddenly get worse. It's still awesome. And resale value is a non issue, because you would have taken that hit eventually no matter when the D came out, unless your intent was to sell the car before something better was introduced. Why worry so much about resale anyway? Are cars a good financial investment in the first place?
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People are assuming that everyone at Tesla know about the exact timing and such. Unfortunately, when it comes to mfg in these type of CI environments, everyone who does know is under NDA and the majority of people actually don't know (including sales), because the company needs sales to sell the here and now, not the possible future. Revenues and bookings are critical to a companies success and a public company requires proper quarterly guidance and any thing that would prevent that is held in top secret and protected by NDA as well as can be scrutinized by the SEC as possible insider trading or manipulation. I know people in the tech mfg and engineering changes things on the fly and customers are upset that sales didn't tell them a better model is coming, but that's because sales doesn't know, because if they knew, they could manipulate sales.
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You got what you bought.

Not much sympathy here, sorry.
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MY T, what is your suggestion Tesla do for all effected?
I would assume everybody that took delivery before the announcement are effected. There is no real cut off date. The people in limbo are the ones that ordered but have not taken delivery.
They always have the option of forfeiting their deposit. Cheap option I would say. What about people that ordered, paid in full but have not taken delivery? That is a tough one.

But people that ordered, paid and took delivery.....

Unless you can lay down exactly what Tesla should do for how far back, you have no leg to stand on. And I am talking not just what they should do for you, but exactly what should their policy be.

I am curious what you will suggest, I do not have a good answer....

I assume a price increase will come in Europe when they announce P85D pricing over here (The $ has gotten very strong against Euro and CHF).. so everybody that has bought before will see their cars appreciate.
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This is Tesla's model. We need to get used to it. If Tesla isn't going to adhere to model years, then don't buy a Model S until right after an update event. Pretty simple.
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It astounds me that someone who DIDN'T order, and supposedly didn't WANT parking sensors is now complaining that they didn't get this $500 option FREE on their $100K amazing car! I didn't order fog lights on my MS because there's no fog in NM, so am I going to be upset if they add that to the package? No way! I wanted a spoiler, but not the whole P pkg, so ordered one and put it on and now have the car exactly the way I want it. Enjoy your car, it's what you ordered and received and be happy for those that got that little $500 present from Tesla.
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toby_wan_kenoby said: ?

Unless you can lay down exactly what Tesla should do for how far back, you have no leg to stand on. And I am talking not just what they should do for you, but exactly what should their policy be.
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I honestly can't see what they can reasonably do with delivered P85+ vehicles. The P85D is more, so the P85+ is already discounted in relation. The best I think Tesla could offer in his case would be a generous (but not too generous) trade offer. As others have pointed out Tesla can probably easily sell a maxed out P85+ with low miles on it to someone that doesn't want to wait and doesn't care about the D.

For that matter, I'd think that the P85+ would slightly appreciate in the resale market because it's a middle ground between a P85 and P85D that is no longer offered. If you want that little bit more than a base P85 but don't want to pay for the P85D you have to buy a P85+ on the used market. If it happens to be sold by Tesla through their (soon to be arriving) CPO program, I'd bet it'd sell for nearly what a new P85+ would have.
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AmpedRealtor said: ?

This is Tesla's model. We need to get used to it. If Tesla isn't going to adhere to model years, then don't buy a Model S until right after an update event. Pretty simple.
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Especially when your desired feature (ie, AWD) has been in the rumor mill for, literally, months.
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Any technology product can be "obsolete" (meaning it works just fine, but someone else has a more advanced version) if a few months. Look at the 4K televisions, costing more than $10,000 for the early adopters and within a year the price dropped by thousands of dollars for better units. What is Tesla supposed to do, tell people not to order cars because something better is coming really soon? There were never any promises other features wouldn't be out for x amount of time, so you could enjoy knowing you had the "top of the line" car for that amount of time. Someone has to be the last person to get the previous version. How much more money you spent on the car than some of us who did have to think about whether or not to get leather seats has no relevance. It just plays into the stereotype many non-Tesla owners have that Tesla owners have a sense of entitlement.
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Yes it sucks that many of us didn't get the autopilot sensors. My car seems to be one of the last ones off the line without them, and that sucks. A lot of us who took delivery in the past month would have ordered the P85D had we known it was coming. We didn't know, and that sucks.

But Tesla did nothing wrong. They had to announce new features at some point. We just happened to be the ones who barely missed the boat. We still got what we ordered, and we got what we paid for. We have the right to be sad and disappointed, but we shouldn't be angry at Tesla.

Some other guy got MORE than he ordered, and he got it for free. I'm excited for him. His bonus doesn't hurt me at all.

If you want a warning that in three months you'll be able to get a P85D, this is it. Buy one in three months. If you wanted the same warning a month ago, well, a guy named Steve wanted that warning TWO months ago, and a nice old lady named Barbara wanted that warning THREE months ago. If Tesla had announced the D a month ago, Steve and Barbara would be the ones bitching instead of you. Would that seem more fair to you?

In short, I'm sad I missed out on the autopilot sensors by mere hours. I'm sad I didn't know the D would be available so soon. But I've learned I need to quit being so concerned with what other people have and just be happy with what I have. I love my Model S, even though it's not quite as good as the newest ones.
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I just bought a used 2013 Model S -- without even all the bells and whistles available when the car was new -- because it's the best I can afford. It doesn't have all the latest cool stuff, and I'll never be able to afford the latest. The best I can hope for is to pimp out a new Model 3 when it comes out in two or three years. By then, a lot of the cool tech available now, but not necessarily everything, will be included and/or available as options. I accept that I can't afford the latest and greatest in the current high end models.

So for that reason I am astounded to hear people complain about how their new top of the line $127K car isn't top of the line enough. People who would have spent a little more to get an even higher end top of the line car. Really??? Looking at this from the view point of someone who has to pinch pennies to own a Tesla, everyone who complains about not getting more for free, or not being afforded the opportunity to get to spend even more on their $120K+ car, you all look like spoiled brats. "I want what he has, blah, blah, blah..." Good grief. Suck it up.
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Well, one consequence of continual upgrades is that eventually consumers will start to time orders to correspond with the product refresh cycle, ala Apple: iPhone, iPad, Mac Buyer's Guide: Know When to Buy For instance, now is a really bad time to buy an iPad.

I do hope they get better with hardware upgrades though. I got the folding mirrors added & love them, and I would certainly pay for all these sensors & a 2nd motor if possible & the cost was reasonable. Not in the company's best interests to offer upgrades now... Can certainly make more selling me a new car.
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arondaniel said: ?

Well, one consequence of continual upgrades is that eventually consumers will start to time orders to correspond with the product refresh cycle, ala Apple: iPhone, iPad, Mac Buyer's Guide: Know When to Buy For instance, now is a really bad time to buy an iPad.
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You might be right, but I suspect that the potential upgrades for a Model S are much more varied and new versions can be rolled out more frequently (and less predictably) than tablets and phones. One of the tricks with small electronics is just getting everything to fit. Cars have a lot more wiggle room so they don't have to plan each change so carefully.
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breser said: ?

If you want that little bit more than a base P85 but don't want to pay for the P85D you have to buy a P85+ on the used market. If it happens to be sold by Tesla through their (soon to be arriving) CPO program, I'd bet it'd sell for nearly what a new P85+ would have.
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I appreciate your optimism and like where your head's at, but I will take that bet. While I agree that there will be demand for P85+ CPO, especially for those who want it now, I would estimate they'll sell at a hefty discount, depending on typical used car details.
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GinoG said: ?

It astounds me that someone who DIDN'T order, and supposedly didn't WANT parking sensors is now complaining that they didn't get this $500 option FREE on their $100K amazing car! I didn't order fog lights on my MS because there's no fog in NM, so am I going to be upset if they add that to the package? No way! I wanted a spoiler, but not the whole P pkg, so ordered one and put it on and now have the car exactly the way I want it. Enjoy your car, it's what you ordered and received and be happy for those that got that little $500 present from Tesla.
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Please next time read first before reply.
I never complained that Tesla didn't give me parking sensors in my car.
Parking sensors came 3 months AFTER I took delivery so I wasn't looking for any retribution from Tesla.
My garage is small, I would have loved and for sure ordered parking sensors if they would have been available when I bought the car.
What I said was that all cars that worth 100K should have the parking sensors option, mine didn't have this option and until Tesla catch up with the rest of manufacture this will keep happening every new cycle.
I said I'm happy with my car as it is.
My personal experience is unrelated to the parking sensors.

Next time please read before reply.
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I read a suggestion somewhere that seemed a nice solution: Schedule hardware upgrade announcements every 4 months. (Feb, June, Oct)

Seemed a really good solution for everyone. It lets buyers understand announcement timing when making ordering plans, and thereby experience less remorse or feeling of being blindsided should the announcement be about a feature they find particularly appealing.

It also allows Tesla to continue their process of continuous improvement, and regular PR opportunity.
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Tedkidd said: ?

I read a suggestion somewhere that seemed a nice solution: Schedule hardware upgrade announcements every 4 months. (Feb, June, Oct)

Seemed a really good solution for everyone. It lets buyers understand announcement timing when making ordering plans, and thereby experience less remorse or feeling of being blindsided should the announcement be about a feature they find particularly appealing.

It also allows Tesla to continue their process of continuous improvement, and regular PR opportunity.
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I think this is a really excellent idea. As much as I feel when you order a car you get the car you ordered, I feel for those who bought a loaded P85 or P85+ and miss out on the acceleration of the P85D. When you normally buy a car you know they are on a 6-7 year model redesign with a facelift somewhere in the middle. I love Tesla's concept of continuous improvement and I agree that it is the way to go but I think it would be more fair for their customers to have some heads up when and what they plan on doing.

We waited 2 years to order a Model S because we really wanted to AWD. We almost bought an A8 because we didn't know how long the wait would be. I think some rough idea about upcoming features coming out in the next 6 months would be helpful. I a sure they can do this in a way to not affect sales where everyone is constantly waiting for the next big thing.
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Tedkidd said: ?

Schedule hardware upgrade announcements every 4 months. (Feb, June, Oct)
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Not a bad solution from the consumer's point of view, but then we'd all just wait until immediately after the announcements to order. Dealing with 90+% of orders during the first week of February, June, and October could be a pain for Tesla. They would either have to be at peak production capacity during those times and slowly taper off until the next announcement (an extremely inefficient employment structure) , or spread the deliveries out over the 4 months. And considering how much people already bitch because their car came 2 weeks later than someone else's who ordered after them, I'm not sure this would result in any fewer angry whiners than we currently have today.
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Tesla,

You're a bunch of engineers running a company. There are some good things about that but please do not fall into the trap of telling people what and when you are going to deliver the next XYZ. Remember your supercharger commitment experience. You're are not good at timelines and delivery promises. Please continue to do things as you are, that is, announce it when it is done. Oops, that worked for the all wheel drive but probably does not apply to the autopilot features which, as far as I can tell, is pie off in the distant sky.
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lolachampcar said: ?

Tesla,

You're a bunch of engineers running a company. There are some good things about that but please do not fall into the trap of telling people what and when you are going to deliver the next XYZ. Remember your supercharger commitment experience. You're are not good at timelines and delivery promises. Please continue to do things as you are, that is, announce it when it is done. Oops, that worked for the all wheel drive but probably does not apply to the autopilot features which, as far as I can tell, is pie off in the distant sky.
Click to expand...

LOL I'm imagining a whole gaggle of Tesla engineers huddled together cringing as Elon was talking about all these "features"...

Mike
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MY T said: ?

Clearly you don't understand. Your assumptions on the intent, logistics, and prejudiced surrounding the time line from purchase to delivery are superfluous at best. You offer no contribution to this discussion thread topic, and your comments seem based purely on your own indisposition about your situation. Unless of course living in SC you have an inside understanding of the manufacturing process of tesla's here in California?? I didn't think so.
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I agree with you and your original post X1000. This is not a simple upgrade it is a whole different car.
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MY T said: ?

What they do is up to them but if they know their target demographic they should do everything to make this right as I'm sure most of us will be purchasing multiple tesla's as we believe in the company and for me am heavily investing in the stock as well.
Click to expand...

Is that a threat? Yes it is a threat. Let us know if it works because I'd like to make similar threat to Tesla too.
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CarlK said: ?

Is that a threat? Yes it is a threat. Let us know if it works because I'd like to make similar threat to Tesla too.
Click to expand...

I'd say that point especially applies to the 4 Tesla household guy who took deliveries of 2 vehicles in the same week, one with and one without the sensors.
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I just went on the Tesla site to build the car that I would now want 18 months and 30k miles after receiving my S. I'd build it the very same as I did originally. I actually hate the way the sensors look, they totally stand out and ruin the smooth and sleek looks of the car, I'd rather keep the full frunk and simplicity of the 2wd system (0 to 60 in 5 seconds is already damn fast). I'd much rather drive the car myself than be forever watching that the auto drive is not making an error.

I pray that when I ever need another Model S, I can still get it without those ugly sensors on the bumpers!
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bonnie said: ?

^^^ This.

I paid far more than any fully-optioned Model S for my Roadster Sport ... and it has been completely eclipsed by better charging technology, better batteries, better interior, roomier, faster, better tech, blah blah blah. I could always wait for the next best thing, and I'd still be waiting. Instead, I've been driving a Tesla. That's 3.5 years of fun that the latest technology can't give me, no matter how cool it is.

And I KNOW that once I take delivery of my Model X, it will quickly be surpassed by cooler and newer features on the next Model X to be shipped ... but I will still be driving the Model X I paid for. And I'll have had a lot more fun in the meantime than those waiting around for the next cool new feature. I'm not going to spend my life worrying about what other people received that I may or may not have received - as long as I received what I paid for. That just seems like a not fun way to spend my life.
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Well-said Bonnie. As many have mentioned, if you love the car, this won't be the first one. Drive what you have now, enjoy it, wait a little longer until the next generation comes that has the bells and whistles you cannot live without.
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If the OP really wanted autopilot, he could have waited to buy the car until that feature was announced. Same with AWD. He bought a car without autopilot or AWD and now is unhappy about it. How much he paid for it is irrelevant-- the car he ordered was worth that price to him when he ordered it and will perform just as well as he expected. I can understand the disappointment but I don't get the anger or the expectation that Tesla give him something different than what he ordered.
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While not an identical situation, perhaps Apple's handling of the original iPhone price cut shows a way forward. "Steve Jobs apologized and offered $100 credits ... to customers who shelled out $599 for the ... iPhone this summer, only to have the company unexpectedly slash the price $200"

Jobs added that "the technology road is bumpy," and there will always be people who pay top dollar for the latest electronics but get angry later when the price drops.
"This is life in the technology lane," Jobs said.

Apple responds to backlash, offers store credit - Technology & science - Wireless | NBC News
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Tedkidd said: ?

I read a suggestion somewhere that seemed a nice solution: Schedule hardware upgrade announcements every 4 months. (Feb, June, Oct)
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Or, as a Tesla customer, don't order the vehicle prior to a major announcement. Wouldn't that be much simpler?
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AmpedRealtor said: ?

Or, as a Tesla customer, don't order the vehicle prior to a major announcement. Wouldn't that be much simpler?
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But since these major announcements don't come on a timetable, it sounds like you're saying that buyers should wait an indeterminate amount of time until there is a major announcement, then order their car afterwards. Well, that's sure one way to be assured of the latest tech, but it's not very realistic -- people get excited about the purchase and have to have it NOW.
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MassModel3 said: ?

But since these major announcements don't come on a timetable, it sounds like you're saying that buyers should wait an indeterminate amount of time until there is a major announcement, then order their car afterwards. Well, that's sure one way to be assured of the latest tech, but it's not very realistic -- people get excited about the purchase and have to have it NOW.
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I'm not sure how that's incompatible with AmpedRealtor's point. Either have the patience to wait for the next announcement--as you said, whenever that might be--or make your purchase and take the risk. All that is under my control. I take my pick and live with the consequences.
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DriverOne said: ?

Jobs added that "the technology road is bumpy," and there will always be people who pay top dollar for the latest electronics but get angry later when the price drops.
"This is life in the technology lane," Jobs said.[/url]
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Well stated. I think this especially applies to Tesla. As long as Elon is leading development I think it's safe to assume a steep technology development curve. Look what the company has done in a short time. Just with performance, they have accomplished more than most manufacturers, whom by the way have been trying to accomplish for decades. Many of which have huge budgets, decades of shared advancements, racing development teams to help enhance aerodynamics, engine output, braking efficiency, yadda yadda. The future is bright and I'm excited to see what happens even if it means my Tesla will be eclipsed within months. At some point you need to pull the trigger unless you just dream of having a Tesla versus having a Tesla.
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TDial said: ?

I just got mine on 9-30 and I'm OK about it. I got all the new tech sensors (f yeah!). The car is a complete blast and a beauty to boot. Normally I'm the kind of guy who thinks "dammit, already obsolete'. But I just don't feel that with my "Miss" (she is a lady, of course. A nasty one at that!). I love the RWD and while the 3.2 is unbelievably alluring, the reported 3.8 for the SW upgrade to 6.xx for the P85+RWD (is that what we call her now?) is still completely shocking and actually very useful!
Click to expand...

Of course you are OK, only people who missed the sensors by few days are complaining (including myself). I have not seen one comment from a new owner that missed the new sensors by few days and is ok with it. It is very easy for some of you to say that you got what you paid for when you are not impacted.

- - - Updated - - -

Killface said: ?

Yes it sucks that many of us didn't get the autopilot sensors. My car seems to be one of the last ones off the line without them, and that sucks. A lot of us who took delivery in the past month would have ordered the P85D had we known it was coming. We didn't know, and that sucks.

But Tesla did nothing wrong. They had to announce new features at some point. We just happened to be the ones who barely missed the boat. We still got what we ordered, and we got what we paid for. We have the right to be sad and disappointed, but we shouldn't be angry at Tesla.

Some other guy got MORE than he ordered, and he got it for free. I'm excited for him. His bonus doesn't hurt me at all.

If you want a warning that in three months you'll be able to get a P85D, this is it. Buy one in three months. If you wanted the same warning a month ago, well, a guy named Steve wanted that warning TWO months ago, and a nice old lady named Barbara wanted that warning THREE months ago. If Tesla had announced the D a month ago, Steve and Barbara would be the ones bitching instead of you. Would that seem more fair to you?

In short, I'm sad I missed out on the autopilot sensors by mere hours. I'm sad I didn't know the D would be available so soon. But I've learned I need to quit being so concerned with what other people have and just be happy with what I have. I love my Model S, even though it's not quite as good as the newest ones.
Click to expand...

Another point: your brand new Tesla now deprciated faster because it doesn't have the new features. Nobody is saying that Tesla did something wrong. They can easily offer something to people who got their cars 30 days prior to an update. Obviously Tesla made more money form my purchase since it sold me a car with less features: why not give me something back or offer me better trade-in for the new model. This is what I would expect from a company that wants to revolutionize the auto industry. In general, this is a good customer service.
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pzz said: ?

Obviously Tesla made more money form my purchase since it sold me a car with less features: why not give me something back or offer me better trade-in for the new model. This is what I would expect from a company that wants to revolutionize the auto industry. In general, this is a good customer service.
Click to expand...

You make a valid point, and that sounds like a perfect reasonable request from a customer perspective, but it's not how car companies do business. What you have to keep in mind is that even though Tesla and Elon Musk are revolutionizing the automotive industry, and even though Tesla owners are, for lack of a better word, spoiled by amazing customer service beyond that of any other car company, in the end, Tesla is still just another car company. Yes, they want to revolutionize the world, but they can't do that by giving away their profits.

Would it be nice if they reduced the mileage and time deductions when they calculate trade-ins for owners close to announcements? Absolutely. But there has to be a cut-off for how far back those calculations go, and no matter what, someone will always complain that they just missed it.
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Okay, I have read every post in this thread. I am affected by this issue, and I am a little disappointed, so I think I can bring some honesty and insight into this thread. I ordered my car on September 6 and I was supposed to get it in late November. I was happy to see that there were several mid-year changes that I benefitted from. The black headliner with the padding on the dash is very nice, and was recently "enabled" for ordering. I later found out that I got the recently redesigned turn signal/cruise control/wiper controls. This is good since the car I drove on the test drive had the old design and I was constantly flicking the wrong stick. In any event a few days after ordering the car, I noticed that the website said that customers that bought the P version of the car might get preferential delivery treatment, so I called my sales advisor and asked about a faster delivery. 72 hours later my status changed from end of November to end of September. I was THRILLED and THANKFUL. It turns out that the benefit of buying the enhanced P version of the car which is supposed to be rewarded with a faster delivery, turned out to be a very bad benefit. I had no way of knowing and neither did my owner advisor. I will start by saying that I love the car. I work in technology (semiconductors) and love all manner of gadgets and options. I ordered my car with just about every option (Performance version, nice pearl white metallic paint, upgraded turbine 19" rims, enhanced lighting, sound system upgrade, cold weather package, pano-roof, and of course the mandatory technology package). I would LOVE to have the auto-drive options, even though I might not use them that much. For one thing I would play with them as they are very cool and I would love to see the technology evolve, secondly there will be constant software upgrades that will always focus on these features and I will miss out on all of that fun. I will also miss out on testing the upgrades and options and providing feedback (I like to beta test things and I always provide owner feedback). That bums me out. I missed the upgrades by 1 day!! I called my sales advisor and told him that I loved my new car and that I was honestly not interested in the D version at this time. I just do not want air suspension and 21" rims (that is why I did not order the P85+ and simply got the P85). I was told to list my car on Craig's list and Ebay as there may be folks that want a car ASAP and do not want to wait and will pay me the ~$117k I have into the car. I have already installed a killer JL audio amp and subwoofer as well as an Escort 9500CI with laser shifters (about $4500 in upgrades) along with some nice 35% tinting for the sides and back window. The install is SUPER clean and very stealthy. For his part my sales advisor said he would check to see what he might be able to do about a trade-in. I only have 350 miles on the car. I have stewed on this for several days and have come to the conclusion that anyone who is bummed out like me has the right to be disappointed. I don't think a petition is warranted simply because I have faith that Tesla, in general, is trying to do the right thing. Much much more than any regular car company (no comparison). I think that the D option represents a major model change and therefore there should not be much complaining from anyone who wished they had ordered the "D". Perhaps a slight rebate from Tesla on the order of $5k for P85+ owners that were within 60 days, but that is just an over the top nice thing to do and is in no way something I would expect if I were a P85+ owner. Where I think that Tesla may have dropped the ball is that these features represent an important part of the future of driving and is a lot more important than a second motor or more horsepower. I, and I suppose many others, bought their Tesla because they like technology and want to be part of the next generation of cars. Pilotless driving is one of those technologies. Tesla should absolutely have an upgrade path for all owners of the S model. The option should be offered with as little profit markup as possible. For older owners (like 2012 and early 2013) they might have to pay most of the cost of a $5k to $10k upgrade, for people like me maybe I might only pay 10% or 20% of the cost to upgrade. The bottom line is that I would not expect to have a way to get the latest thing that makes the car faster or handle better, but an upgrade like all of these sensors is a MAJOR enhancement. I just want a way to participate in a type of technology that is exceedingly important. I think I could create some analogies like, if Tesla just came out with a slight battery compartment change on newer cars that would allow new owners to immediately start performing battery swaps at newly disclosed batter swap locations, I would not be happy if there was not an affordable way for me to enjoy such a major change to the car that I missed by a matter of days. yes I am willing to pay something for my bad timing, but I still want to be able to "play". In the end if I get nothing, I can live with it and I would not begrudge the Tesla company or other luckier owners.
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I had a very poor sentence structure on an important point and wanted to restate it. Unfortunately, I cannot edit my post! What I mean to say was:

...Where I think that Tesla may have dropped the ball is that these AUTOPILOT features represent an important part of the future of driving and is potentially much more important than AWD or more horsepower. I, and I suppose many others, bought their Tesla because they like technology and want to be part of the next generation of cars. Pilotless driving is one of those technologies. Tesla should try and have an upgrade path for all owners of the S model....[/QUOTE]
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enodog said: ?

I had a very poor sentence structure on an important point and wanted to restate it. Unfortunately, I cannot edit my post! What I mean to say was:

...Where I think that Tesla may have dropped the ball is that these AUTOPILOT features represent an important part of the future of driving and is potentially much more important than AWD or more horsepower. I, and I suppose many others, bought their Tesla because they like technology and want to be part of the next generation of cars. Pilotless driving is one of those technologies. Tesla should try and have an upgrade path for all owners of the S model....
Click to expand...

[/QUOTE]

Answer for you is the same as answer to similar question concerning PC or iPhone. You probably have already guessed what the answer is. Nothing will stay the latest and greatest forever, or for that matter for a short period of time. That's why technology is great.
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enodog said: ?

Okay, I have read every post in this thread. I am affected by this issue, and I am a little disappointed, so I think I can bring some honesty and insight into this thread. I ordered my car on September 6 and I was supposed to get it in late November. I was happy to see that there were several mid-year changes that I benefitted from. The black headliner with the padding on the dash is very nice, and was recently "enabled" for ordering. I later found out that I got the recently redesigned turn signal/cruise control/wiper controls. This is good since the car I drove on the test drive had the old design and I was constantly flicking the wrong stick. In any event a few days after ordering the car, I noticed that the website said that customers that bought the P version of the car might get preferential delivery treatment, so I called my sales advisor and asked about a faster delivery. 72 hours later my status changed from end of November to end of September. I was THRILLED and THANKFUL. It turns out that the benefit of buying the enhanced P version of the car which is supposed to be rewarded with a faster delivery, turned out to be a very bad benefit. I had no way of knowing and neither did my owner advisor. I will start by saying that I love the car. I work in technology (semiconductors) and love all manner of gadgets and options. I ordered my car with just about every option (Performance version, nice pearl white metallic paint, upgraded turbine 19" rims, enhanced lighting, sound system upgrade, cold weather package, pano-roof, and of course the mandatory technology package). I would LOVE to have the auto-drive options, even though I might not use them that much. For one thing I would play with them as they are very cool and I would love to see the technology evolve, secondly there will be constant software upgrades that will always focus on these features and I will miss out on all of that fun. I will also miss out on testing the upgrades and options and providing feedback (I like to beta test things and I always provide owner feedback). That bums me out. I missed the upgrades by 1 day!! I called my sales advisor and told him that I loved my new car and that I was honestly not interested in the D version at this time. I just do not want air suspension and 21" rims (that is why I did not order the P85+ and simply got the P85). I was told to list my car on Craig's list and Ebay as there may be folks that want a car ASAP and do not want to wait and will pay me the ~$117k I have into the car. I have already installed a killer JL audio amp and subwoofer as well as an Escort 9500CI with laser shifters (about $4500 in upgrades) along with some nice 35% tinting for the sides and back window. The install is SUPER clean and very stealthy. For his part my sales advisor said he would check to see what he might be able to do about a trade-in. I only have 350 miles on the car. I have stewed on this for several days and have come to the conclusion that anyone who is bummed out like me has the right to be disappointed. I don't think a petition is warranted simply because I have faith that Tesla, in general, is trying to do the right thing. Much much more than any regular car company (no comparison). I think that the D option represents a major model change and therefore there should not be much complaining from anyone who wished they had ordered the "D". Perhaps a slight rebate from Tesla on the order of $5k for P85+ owners that were within 60 days, but that is just an over the top nice thing to do and is in no way something I would expect if I were a P85+ owner. Where I think that Tesla may have dropped the ball is that these features represent an important part of the future of driving and is a lot more important than a second motor or more horsepower. I, and I suppose many others, bought their Tesla because they like technology and want to be part of the next generation of cars. Pilotless driving is one of those technologies. Tesla should absolutely have an upgrade path for all owners of the S model. The option should be offered with as little profit markup as possible. For older owners (like 2012 and early 2013) they might have to pay most of the cost of a $5k to $10k upgrade, for people like me maybe I might only pay 10% or 20% of the cost to upgrade. The bottom line is that I would not expect to have a way to get the latest thing that makes the car faster or handle better, but an upgrade like all of these sensors is a MAJOR enhancement. I just want a way to participate in a type of technology that is exceedingly important. I think I could create some analogies like, if Tesla just came out with a slight battery compartment change on newer cars that would allow new owners to immediately start performing battery swaps at newly disclosed batter swap locations, I would not be happy if there was not an affordable way for me to enjoy such a major change to the car that I missed by a matter of days. yes I am willing to pay something for my bad timing, but I still want to be able to "play". In the end if I get nothing, I can live with it and I would not begrudge the Tesla company or other luckier owners.
Click to expand...

Very well put. If his had happened to be I certainly would be disappointed too but trying to find a solution or a path forward definitely is the right way to go.
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MassModel3 said: ?

I just bought a used 2013 Model S -- without even all the bells and whistles available when the car was new -- because it's the best I can afford. It doesn't have all the latest cool stuff, and I'll never be able to afford the latest. The best I can hope for is to pimp out a new Model 3 when it comes out in two or three years. By then, a lot of the cool tech available now, but not necessarily everything, will be included and/or available as options. I accept that I can't afford the latest and greatest in the current high end models.

So for that reason I am astounded to hear people complain about how their new top of the line $127K car isn't top of the line enough. People who would have spent a little more to get an even higher end top of the line car. Really??? Looking at this from the view point of someone who has to pinch pennies to own a Tesla, everyone who complains about not getting more for free, or not being afforded the opportunity to get to spend even more on their $120K+ car, you all look like spoiled brats. "I want what he has, blah, blah, blah..." Good grief. Suck it up.
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Haha, well said.
�

Here's another way to look at the P85+ dilemma. Tesla is constantly making improvements to their cars at the assembly line level. Most of these changes go by unnoticed, and owners are unaware of most of them. By taking delivery of a P85+ now, you are receiving a car that has had the benefit of over a year of production and numerous assembly line updates. You are also receiving a car that prior to last week was the fastest, most advanced electric production car in the world.

Taking delivery of a P85D during its first few months of production is not without risk. The D has a significant amount of new hardware on board, and while Tesla has no-doubt been testing mule vehicles for months, there is a very real possibility that the D will receive mechanical updates as production moves forward and real-world driving brings issues to light. Tesla is remarkably quick at responding to issues and implementing changes, but some changes may not be physically possible on cars that are already built.
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pzz said: ?

I have not seen one comment from a new owner that missed the new sensors by few days and is ok with it.
Click to expand...

I barely missed the sensors and am okay with it (took delivery 9/25). I'm a bit sad, but I don't expect Tesla to do anything about it.
�

My Model S was built around Sept 15th and I paid $140k for it - P85+ with all possible options available at that time. What is pissing me off is that Tesla is simply discriminating certain number of people by hiding ( not disclosing ) the information about the sensors for Autopilot etc enhancements and started including those for no charge to others that have ordered a Tesla exactly like mine!
They knew very well months ahead that they will start including those sensors in the cars starting end of September, but they didn't issue a statement or anything else to new buyers that starting as of XX date cars will be built with some additional options.
They could've kept their "secret" to some extend, but at least alert buyers that they have a choice to enter in production later then sooner. They haven't given us any choice and now I own a car that I paid $140k for and because of this discriminatory and shady practices by Tesla management my car is probably worth way less. Why are you giving the sensors to some people ordering NOT a dual motor, but a regular Model S and not to everybody? That is simply very wrong. Any talks I had today with Tesla service center and their Sales Store didn't help and every Tesla employee is simply stating: "No one told us that this was coming. We were completely unaware as well." That tells me one thing .. Elon Musk and Tesla management is screwing not only their customers, but their employees as well. This is just a bad bad thing they did.

I am open to start a CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT against Tesla and I will not be shy to spend several hundred thousands dollars to get justice! Some of you may say " just buy the D if you have extra money to spend, but NO I'd rather spend it against Tesla for playing people around!

If anyone is interested in CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT please contact me at montauto at gmail
�

...
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montauto said: ?

I am open to start a CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT against Tesla and I will not be shy to spend several hundred thousands dollars to get justice!
Click to expand...

Oh, now that ought to make the investors happy...
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montauto said: ?

They knew very well months ahead that they will start including those sensors in the cars starting end of September...
Click to expand...

You know no such thing.

...my car is probably worth way less.
Click to expand...

'Probably' isn't 'probably' strong enough to win any kind of a lawsuit. You have the burden of proof.

Why are you giving the sensors to some people ordering NOT a dual motor, but a regular Model S and not to everybody?
Click to expand...

Giving some customers 'freebies' isn't against the law and didn't affect you.

Elon Musk and Tesla management is screwing not only their customers...
Click to expand...

The contract between you and Tesla was fulfilled. You didn't get screwed.

I will not be shy to spend several hundred thousands dollars to get justice! Some of you may say " just buy the D if you have extra money to spend, but NO I'd rather spend it against Tesla for playing people around!
Click to expand...

How very sad, petty, and vindictive.
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montauto said: ?

My Model S was built around Sept 15th and I paid $140k for it - P85+ with all possible options available at that time. What is pissing me off is that Tesla is simply discriminating certain number of people by hiding ( not disclosing ) the information about the sensors for Autopilot etc enhancements and started including those for no charge to others that have ordered a Tesla exactly like mine!
They knew very well months ahead that they will start including those sensors in the cars starting end of September, but they didn't issue a statement or anything else to new buyers that starting as of XX date cars will be built with some additional options.
They could've kept their "secret" to some extend, but at least alert buyers that they have a choice to enter in production later then sooner. They haven't given us any choice and now I own a car that I paid $140k for and because of this discriminatory and shady practices by Tesla management my car is probably worth way less. Why are you giving the sensors to some people ordering NOT a dual motor, but a regular Model S and not to everybody? That is simply very wrong. Any talks I had today with Tesla service center and their Sales Store didn't help and every Tesla employee is simply stating: "No one told us that this was coming. We were completely unaware as well." That tells me one thing .. Elon Musk and Tesla management is screwing not only their customers, but their employees as well. This is just a bad bad thing they did.

I am open to start a CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT against Tesla and I will not be shy to spend several hundred thousands dollars to get justice! Some of you may say " just buy the D if you have extra money to spend, but NO I'd rather spend it against Tesla for playing people around!

If anyone is interested in CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT please contact me at montauto at gmail
Click to expand...

Good luck with the class action. If it happened with Tesla it sets precedent for every other company creating consumer products (Apple would be screwed) lol. You also do realize Autopilot isn't available for a few months so... it's essentially at the typical life cycle of the car. You knew what you were purchasing and paid for it. The deal is done.
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montauto said: ?

My Model S was built around Sept 15th and I paid $140k for it - P85+ with all possible options available at that time. What is pissing me off is that Tesla is simply discriminating certain number of people by hiding ( not disclosing ) the information about the sensors for Autopilot etc enhancements and started including those for no charge to others that have ordered a Tesla exactly like mine!
They knew very well months ahead that they will start including those sensors in the cars starting end of September, but they didn't issue a statement or anything else to new buyers that starting as of XX date cars will be built with some additional options.
They could've kept their "secret" to some extend, but at least alert buyers that they have a choice to enter in production later then sooner. They haven't given us any choice and now I own a car that I paid $140k for and because of this discriminatory and shady practices by Tesla management my car is probably worth way less. Why are you giving the sensors to some people ordering NOT a dual motor, but a regular Model S and not to everybody? That is simply very wrong. Any talks I had today with Tesla service center and their Sales Store didn't help and every Tesla employee is simply stating: "No one told us that this was coming. We were completely unaware as well." That tells me one thing .. Elon Musk and Tesla management is screwing not only their customers, but their employees as well. This is just a bad bad thing they did.

I am open to start a CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT against Tesla and I will not be shy to spend several hundred thousands dollars to get justice! Some of you may say " just buy the D if you have extra money to spend, but NO I'd rather spend it against Tesla for playing people around!

If anyone is interested in CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT please contact me at montauto at gmail
Click to expand...

You will be eaten alive here by the "fanboys" and "investors" who do not understand the meaning of "satisfied customer" and the purpose of customer service. I agree with you 100% btw, but it is a lost clause to argue here. Let's stay in touch outside this forum.
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pzz said: ?

You will be eaten alive here by the "fanboys" and "investors" who do not understand the meaning of "satisfied customer" and the purpose of customer service.
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Entirely unfair comment. Some of those fanboys and investors have been hardest on Tesla. They have the greatest understanding of Tesla, on all levels, having been interested and involved in all things Tesla from the beginning. Because of them, Tesla has made changes through the years.
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montauto said: ?

I am open to start a CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT against Tesla and I will not be shy to spend several hundred thousands dollars to get justice!
Click to expand...

This is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this forum... and I've read the thread about "how many alternators," so, that's saying something...
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wk057 said: ?

This is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this forum... and I've read the thread about "how many alternators," so, that's saying something...
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Im really surprised at how surprised everyone is about the awd S. The specs were leaked back in April? on reddit. My next tesla will be bought right after they announce larger batteries further S or there is a new roadster.
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montauto said: ?

My Model S was built around Sept 15th and I paid $140k for it - P85+ with all possible options available at that time. What is pissing me off is that Tesla is simply discriminating certain number of people by hiding ( not disclosing ) the information about the sensors for Autopilot etc enhancements and started including those for no charge to others that have ordered a Tesla exactly like mine!
They knew very well months ahead that they will start including those sensors in the cars starting end of September, but they didn't issue a statement or anything else to new buyers that starting as of XX date cars will be built with some additional options.
They could've kept their "secret" to some extend, but at least alert buyers that they have a choice to enter in production later then sooner. They haven't given us any choice and now I own a car that I paid $140k for and because of this discriminatory and shady practices by Tesla management my car is probably worth way less. Why are you giving the sensors to some people ordering NOT a dual motor, but a regular Model S and not to everybody? That is simply very wrong. Any talks I had today with Tesla service center and their Sales Store didn't help and every Tesla employee is simply stating: "No one told us that this was coming. We were completely unaware as well." That tells me one thing .. Elon Musk and Tesla management is screwing not only their customers, but their employees as well. This is just a bad bad thing they did.

I am open to start a CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT against Tesla and I will not be shy to spend several hundred thousands dollars to get justice! Some of you may say " just buy the D if you have extra money to spend, but NO I'd rather spend it against Tesla for playing people around!

If anyone is interested in CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT please contact me at montauto at gmail
Click to expand...

Have you read your purchase contract? I would be willing to bet that there is language in it that gives Tesla the right to improve its products without prior notice to customers in the order queue. Case closed.

What Tesla has done is to equip some vehicles with new hardware ahead of the actual announcement of those features. To me, it appears that they've gone above and beyond what one would reasonably expect.
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I am open to start a CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT against Tesla and I will not be shy to spend several hundred thousands dollars to get justice! Some of you may say " just buy the D if you have extra money to spend, but NO I'd rather spend it against Tesla for playing people around!
Click to expand...

We have a word for people like you.
Forum rules do not allow me to write it out for you see.
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montauto said: ?

My Model S was built around Sept 15th and I paid $140k for it - P85+ with all possible options available at that time. What is pissing me off is that Tesla is simply discriminating certain number of people by hiding ( not disclosing ) the information about the sensors for Autopilot etc enhancements and started including those for no charge to others that have ordered a Tesla exactly like mine!
They knew very well months ahead that they will start including those sensors in the cars starting end of September, but they didn't issue a statement or anything else to new buyers that starting as of XX date cars will be built with some additional options.
They could've kept their "secret" to some extend, but at least alert buyers that they have a choice to enter in production later then sooner. They haven't given us any choice and now I own a car that I paid $140k for and because of this discriminatory and shady practices by Tesla management my car is probably worth way less. Why are you giving the sensors to some people ordering NOT a dual motor, but a regular Model S and not to everybody? That is simply very wrong. Any talks I had today with Tesla service center and their Sales Store didn't help and every Tesla employee is simply stating: "No one told us that this was coming. We were completely unaware as well." That tells me one thing .. Elon Musk and Tesla management is screwing not only their customers, but their employees as well. This is just a bad bad thing they did.

I am open to start a CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT against Tesla and I will not be shy to spend several hundred thousands dollars to get justice! Some of you may say " just buy the D if you have extra money to spend, but NO I'd rather spend it against Tesla for playing people around!

If anyone is interested in CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT please contact me at montauto at gmail
Click to expand...

How about spending several thousand dollars to sell your car at a slight loss and get the one you want? I've mentioned this before but I waited 3.5 years for my car . How long did you wait? They had to know they were planning on making your car (P85+) when my P85 was released but they didn't say anything. They came out with the + 6 months later.

I quote Ferris Bueller :

Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.
Click to expand...

Must be a great way to live life and spend your money going after companies like this for trivial things.
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I was referring to the class action thing as the dumbest thing I've ever heard, not people's surprise at the AWD S.... which should have been no surprise at all anyway.

- - - Updated - - -

Actually... I'll go further and say that if this guy actually thinks he'll get anywhere with this class action nonsense and pursues it with any limited amout of success getting it moved forward, I'll order another P85D to help offset Tesla's legal costs in utilizing the legal fly swatter here.
:biggrin:
Just on general principal because I really hate frivolous lawsuits.
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ToddRLockwood said: ?

Have you read your purchase contract? I would be willing to bet that there is language in it that gives Tesla the right to improve its products without prior notice to customers in the order queue. Case closed.

What Tesla has done is to equip some vehicles with new hardware ahead of the actual announcement of those features. To me, it appears that they've gone above and beyond what one would reasonably expect.
Click to expand...

Exactly. A class action will go nowhere because the terms of the purchase contract have been met. No one has the right to sue Tesla for not getting features that came out AFTER you purchased. The thought is such is ludicrous. What planet do people live on??

Honestly this is what just really pisses me off about today's society. Today everybody expects to the world to revolve around them. "ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME". Why can't people just be happy and take responsibility for things and just be happy with what they got? Talk about being self-centered and materialistic. Grow up peoples.
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Had I known the lottery numbers for today's drawing yesterday, I would have acted differently... everyone who didn't pick the right numbers lets sue the lottery....

</troll>
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montauto said: ?

I am open to start a CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT against Tesla and I will not be shy to spend several hundred thousands dollars to get justice! Some of you may say " just buy the D if you have extra money to spend, but NO I'd rather spend it against Tesla for playing people around!

If anyone is interested in CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT please contact me at montauto at gmail
Click to expand...

So, let me get this straight. You are threatening to file a lawsuit not only on your behalf but on the behalf of others claiming that you got exactly what you ordered and paid for and nothing more?

LOL
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teslamotorclub

Thứ Sáu, 6 tháng 1, 2017

Hearing about the D just 9 days after taking delivery of P85+ merits a switch!!! part 1

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