Jan 20, 2013
Lloyd Me, cause I've done it. I've had the lower interior trim apart from the Carbon fiber interior trim down to the floor. and the upper dash piece removed, the front bumper cover, and the rear difuser. All to run the wiring for the 9500ci finished last week. Everything went back exactly like it was and not like a chevy or ford! I have about 300 miles since finished, and not a squeak anywhere.
Of the 100's of clips that I removed, I only broke one in not a critical place. I have removed a lot of Chevy clips, and have broken about 1 of 15 no matter how careful you are.�
Jan 22, 2013
NielsChr +1 from here to Tesla to sort this out. looking forward to see this solution in real life�
Jan 22, 2013
Nikoli Haven't had a windshield fogging issue yet, but noticed fogging in the driver door side window. It only obscured the side view mirror and wouldn't go away regardless of vent settings. At the same time I felt a terrible draft coming from the little triangle piece of glass in the corner of the door ahead of the side view mirror. I'm sure the cold there was preventing the fog from clearing. Not liking those little triangles of glass.�
Feb 3, 2013
contaygious I had a terrible driving experience last night. I drove 3 hours and the windshield and windows would fog up every 5 minutes so I turned the defroster on, but then it was baking all my passengers on the high heat so I kept turning it off and on the whole trip. Tried changing the speed down of defroster, but it wasn't powerful enough, arg�
Feb 3, 2013
goaliemanshark Try switching the climate control to defog instead of blowing it at your feet�
Feb 3, 2013
JakeP And be sure you are set on Outside Air, not Recirc cabin air.�
Feb 3, 2013
Elshout I also did not get frunk net but did get a really classy license plate frame�
Feb 3, 2013
Doug_G Right - settings that work for "maintenance defog": Outside air, air to windshield (maybe feet too if you get cold), fan 4-5, A/C compressor on (if it actually comes on it will dry the air quickly), temperature setting to taste. This will keep the front windshield mostly clear (it might fog over on the left).
Nothing will keep the driver's side window clear. If it's fogging roll it down once in a while to remove much of the fog. If it's frosting over then you'll have to bring a hand scraper.�
Feb 3, 2013
goaliemanshark
Also, don't forget to clean the inside of the windows! That new car smell will cause fogging!�
Feb 3, 2013
gg_got_a_tesla Yeah, that muck that came from the factory on the front windshield needed some major scrubbing with Windex. I had a lot of fogging the first couple of days but, nothing much after the cleaning.�
Feb 3, 2013
RDoc I don't know if this could be an issue, but IR coatings are often not very hard. If the IR coating is on the inside, there might be an issue with damaging it, but as I said, I don't know if it's actually on the inside and not protected. It might be worth a call though to Tesla just be be sure.�
Feb 3, 2013
Doug_G I'm using a plastic scraper. I'm sure it's not doing any damage.�
Feb 3, 2013
jerry33 I had thought that the IR coating was between the glass, not on one side or the other.�
Feb 11, 2013
neroden (In response to a January 19th comment...)
This was good news. However....
I am trying to find out whether I can get this retrofit done before delivery, due to my very substantial distance from the service center. (My estimated delivery is slightly before yours so I probably will need the retrofit.) I am very definitely in the affected region but not in Canada, so I'm rather concerned about making sure this gets done. (For all I can tell, Joost may not realize that there are affected areas within the US, just south of the Great Lakes.) Nobody I've talked to seems to know how to even tell whether it has been done! Which is not cool. I'm going to try calling some service centers. But if anyone can give me more information or better contacts I'd appreciate it.�
Feb 12, 2013
aaronw I wish windshields could use a coating of titanium dioxide inside and out. It strongly resists fogging in addition to being very hydrophobic and a catalyst for self-cleaning. Some window manufacturers are using it and it is sometimes used in rear-view mirrors.�
Feb 12, 2013
FlasherZ If it can't be done before delivery (because they don't have the factory tooling done), just make sure it's on your due bill. That makes it eligible for ranger service to fix with no fee.�
Feb 12, 2013
Al Sherman What will the due bill actually say?�
Feb 12, 2013
FlasherZ Have your DS add "defroster effectiveness retrofit" or something similar.�
Feb 21, 2013
Doug_G Tesla has scheduled my retrofit - will be done in a couple of weeks.�
Feb 21, 2013
znino Are they coming to you or are you taking it into a service center?�
Feb 21, 2013
Doug_G They are coming to me. I'm over 400 km from the service center.�
Feb 21, 2013
znino You could come to the montreal service, no? Less than 400 Km! But anyway, if they are going to you then why not! At least it's an indication that it's not necessarily a complicated retrofit.
If you are ever in the Montreal area btw, would be happy to meet up and say hi in person
�
Feb 21, 2013
mknox I'm on the fence about paying extra for the "Anywhere" plan since I live very close to the Service Center. Do these kinds of retrofits and warranty repairs incur the $100 fee if you don't opt for the Anywhere Plan?
The reason I ask is that it is terribly inconvenient for me to get my car (any car) in for service as I have no other way to get to work, job sites and such. If these visits are not covered, I may opt in, and simply have them come to my workplace for these types of things.
I can deal with taking the car in for annual service visits, wheel swaps and so forth, but it's a different matter if it becomes much more than that.�
Feb 21, 2013
eelton Does Tesla give loaners when cars are in for service? I thought they did, although Enterprise rent-a-cars rather than Teslas.�
Feb 21, 2013
Doug_G Yes, I could probably go to Montreal if I needed to. But I'd rather get the anywhere plan. I do come to Montreal once in a while, though, and it would be fun to meet some more Montreal owners.
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As I understand it, "due bill" items are excluded, but warranty repairs incur the fee.
Might well be worthwhile.
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Yes, I got an Enterprise rent-a-car when I visited Toronto recently. Unfortunately the car was something of a horror story (no fault of Tesla's). See Winter Ice Adventure�
Feb 21, 2013
mknox In my case, I'd have to drop the car off the night before and get the loaner car then so that I could get to work the next morning. Probably too much to ask. Whenever I take my current ICE in for maintenance I use a dealer about 1/2 mile from my office rather than the dealer I bought it at for this very reason. I used to use the selling dealer where I live, and they always provided a free loaner, but by the time I got there after they opened in the morning I still ended up being late for work.�
Feb 21, 2013
eelton Ah, yes, I see the problem. I have the same one, now that I see that the Tesla service center is only open from 9 AM to 6 PM. So, I'll also have to drop off the car the night before. My BMW dealer used to be open from 6 AM to midnight, which worked much better for me.
sent via Tapatalk�
Mar 9, 2013
neroden Too late. They need to fix it with no fee anyway, it's a genuine recall issue. And I'm planning to get the anywhere plan as soon as they offer it.�
Mar 9, 2013
znino By the way, How's the fogging issue been since they performed the retrofit fix for you? Do you still have any issue or is it all solved?�
Mar 12, 2013
olanmills So is the retrofit generally available now? Or are they prioritizing only customers in really cold areas?
We have fairly mild weather wear I live, but even when the inside of the car is warm, the defogger doesn't keep the windshield clear really. Though I have to admit, cleaning the inside of the windshield once every couple weeks (I just wipe it with a towel, no chemicals or water) helps a lot for some reason.�
Mar 12, 2013
yobigd20 I've experienced this fogging issue in NJ over the last week. Not too major of an issue for me, but kind of annoying. I'm definitely in for getting this fix retrofitted in.�
Mar 12, 2013
Doug_G They pushed my install back a week due to a scheduling conflict.
As the temperatures have moderated I've been experiencing the problem less and less. I may not be able to give you a valid report until December!�
Mar 12, 2013
mknox We had heavy rain all day yesterday with temps around 40 F. I had no windshield fogging, but the drivers side window did start to fog up. I found directing airflow to the dash vents, and then aiming the far left and right ones towards the side glass helped a lot. Had to turn the fan speed up a bit too.�
Mar 12, 2013
Doug_G Under more extreme conditions there's nothing you can do about the driver's side window. Pointing the side vents at it isn't enough; it inexorably frosts over.�
Mar 12, 2013
patp Doug,
I assume you're using the Laval service center? Are you having issues getting service and/or ranger service?�
Mar 12, 2013
PeterK I asked about getting the retrofit when at the service center today, after substantial driver's window and left edge of windshield fogging during a drive in snow to NYC Friday. They told me they have some of the parts but not the revised grille so can't do the retrofit yet.�
Mar 12, 2013
znino I'm having mine done only on April 10 so that was my fear... They will do it but the weather then won't really allow me to know if it helped or not�
Mar 12, 2013
mknox That's not encouraging because I don't thing the front defroster retrofit is going to address that. For years now, cars have had separate vents for the side windows, sometimes on the A-pillar, sometimes on the top edge of the dash and sometimes actually ducted to the door itself.�
Mar 12, 2013
dgmanny Does anyone know if the cars they are building now have the revised vent design?�
Mar 12, 2013
Doug_G I've been dealing with Toronto since 2010... I don't know if they're planning on switching me over to Laval, but I am in Ontario despite being somewhat closer to Montreal.
Ranger service has always been fantastic. Eli was needed in Toronto this week because they just hired TWO new technicians and it's their first week on the job. Not a good time for him to be away from the shop.
I guess after loosing Mark to Vancouver they needed to double down to replace him! :wink:
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It might be okay, actually. Currently the right-hand window stays clear even as the left-hand window frosts over completely. So if they can make it just as good on the left side all should be okay.
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Most likely yes.�
Mar 12, 2013
100thMonkey with the HVAC set to "range mode" and the power defrost off, AC off, mode set to allow in outside air, fan set to 3, vent modes set to foot (to keep feet warm) and windshield and temperature set to 72, with Climate control on pretty much all the time, I do not have fogging. if I leave the climate control off, and fog forms, it's too late, it kind of takes over and takes a while to disappear. compared to the Leaf, the S's climate control is much more efficient and can be left on pretty much all the time. I wouldn't dream of doing this in the Leaf, it would eat half the range. around here with all the damp air, people typically have quite a struggle with fogging in the Leaf. the fogging issue is mostly an EV thing, related to the lack of waste heat coming from the ICE which is constantly drying an ICE car out.�
Mar 13, 2013
patp Ok. I agree Ranger Service has been fantastic in the last two years. Mark and Eli were amazing. I just feel that Laval is as little bit disorganized and somewhat slow to answer requests.�
Mar 14, 2013
Doug_G Today a brand-new "off the truck" Model S dropped by for a charge, and it has the mod. The difference is plainly visible:
My car.
New car.
As you can see, there is now a physical vent sticking through the grille. So there should be no confusion about whether you have the mod or not - you can see it!�
Mar 14, 2013
aaronw One thing many cars do when running the front defroster is to run the A/C at the same time they run the heater in order to dry the air. I am wondering if the model S does this as well or does it just heat the air?�
Mar 14, 2013
mknox That must have been the very next truck after the load mine was on. I'm given to understand my car arrived in Toronto on March 4th and I picked it up on the 9th. (Mine does not have the mod).�
Mar 14, 2013
znino Woah, sorry but that is a seriously ugly mod. That front dash part was so sleek and flat. Now with this venting insert it really kills the look. I thought they were going to change the angle of the ductwork under the panel and have it blow more sideways. Here everything is visible and the front dash no longer has that smooth line.�
Mar 14, 2013
clea Was this a factory install or an upgrade from the service center? Do you know if we are supposed to ask for the mod explicitly or will they just call us for the upgrade when its our turn?
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To be fair, I'd like to see it from further back so I can see it with more context before passing judgment.�
Mar 14, 2013
Doug_G
No way to be sure, but the truck literally dropped off the car at the guy's house yesterday morning. Either the factory put it in, or it was installed on the way through Toronto. If I think of it I'll ask Eli when he drops by to install mine.
It looks just fine. Honestly, I don't think most people would notice it, especially since most cars have things like that on their dashboard.�
Mar 15, 2013
mknox I'll bet it was done in Toronto. When I picked mine up last Saturday, there was a stack of the old unmodified pieces on one of the workbenches, which I presume must have come out of the cars that were delivered. At the time, I didn't know if they were new pieces or old, but based on your picture, they were definitely the old unmodified style.
I never thought to look into any of the other cars that were there on the shop floor. Not sure why mine wasn't done if others were. Perhaps it's because they know I live very close to the SC and could easily have it done later...�
Mar 20, 2013
zax123 Gents,
For those who have had the upgrade done (Doug), does it also fix fogging on the driver's-side window? Mine is always fogged up and there's no air coming out of the side vent closest to the window. I have to blast the fan at 7 or 8 and put the shoulder-level vents on manually, etc... it's a pain. Just wondering if the vent upgrade helps that?�
Mar 20, 2013
Doug_G That is what the upgrade is for. I haven't got enough real world data yet to pronounce on its effectiveness, but it looks promising.�
Mar 20, 2013
zax123 Hi Doug, sorry for being thick.
Did you happen to notice if they did the same mod on the passenger side in order to have some symmetry in the dash?
I'm getting my mod done next week at the Laval service center, just curious...�
Mar 20, 2013
neroden It's supposed to help with *both* the driver's side of the windshield *and* the driver's side window. Looking at it, it probably will.
Good question.�
Mar 20, 2013
toto_48313 Yes it's apply on both side in order to have a symmetry.�
Mar 20, 2013
Doug_G Yes, both sides.
The original grille has a solid back, except for two rectangular cutout areas that have seals that connect to ducts in the dash. It looks to me like it was originally designed to include these vents. Probably at some point they decided to go for a "clean look", but unfortunately didn't retest it in severe winter conditions (probably couldn't retest if the change was made after last winter).�
Mar 20, 2013
wycolo Outside view of S-defroster diy ez fix. May help you until the real thing comes along. Whenever I notice a thin haze developing across the windshield, I turn enviro ON usually just @ LO, fan speed=2, and it goes away before becoming an issue. Fan=3 is the most I've ever had to use, and just briefly. Originally planned on spraying it flat black but its now firmly in position so wth, left passersby turn up their noses.
--
More content from the High Country Test Station - distribute freely.�
Oct 3, 2013
mnx So I was just contacted by my local service centre to ask if I have had the defroster vent retrofit. (I have not).
From what I've read on various threads, I've seen people complaining about the reflection in the windshield. Any other issues/complaints with the retrofit? I do like the clean look of the mesh grille so I'm just trying to decide whether I want to proceed or not.�
Oct 3, 2013
mknox I'm asking to have it done. Like you, I prefer the "clean" look of the original grille, but I don't think the new louvers are any worse than on any other car. For me, it's more important to have the windows clear and not have to use a scraper on the interior glass like Doug_G had to do last winter!
The only "issue" that I've heard about is rattles and squeaks after the retrofit is done. They actually have to tear the dash down pretty far. Hopefully by now they've "perfected" the retrofit process and this won't be an issue.�
Oct 3, 2013
Doug_G You definitely want the grilles. And complaints about reflections are ludicrous. Unless you spend all your time staring at your hood while driving, or have never driven almost any other model of car in existence, you won't even notice it.
I had a rattle at first, but it was because they hadn't quite perfected the installation procedure yet (mine was one of the first done). Eli fixed it and no problem since then.�
Oct 3, 2013
clea +1 ... I had the grill updated last spring and I noticed the reflection on the 1st day and then promptly forgot about it until reading this thread reminded me of it ... not an issue.�
Oct 3, 2013
efusco The reflections are real, and a bit annoying, so I wouldn't go so far as ludicrous. I have even considered ways to dull the finish on the grills to reduce the reflection. Perhaps you haven't driven in the conditions it's most noticeable, but when it is it's quite noticeable.
That said, I'm glad I had the retrofit done. While the clean old grill does look nice, this change is hardly ugly. Fact is most people wouldn't give it a second glance and if the car had originally been built with what is now a retrofit we'd have never known any different b/c just about every car on the planet uses a similar design to direct air flow. The benefits are worth the change by a long shot.�
Oct 3, 2013
ChadS Just got the retrofit recently when my car was in for it's one-year service. I noticed the reflection; but only because I was looking for it - it's minor and low on the windshield; my wife is sensitive to stuff like that and she hadn't noticed.
The car is much quieter after than before...the grills don't seem to make any noise, and they have new pano and c-pillar brightwork bulletins that really cut down on the creaking.�
Oct 3, 2013
brianman You do notice such things (including the original vents) in dashcam footage, but I agree it's probably not worth worrying about.�
Jan 11, 2014
kevincwelch I applied CarPro Fog Fight to my MS this afternoon. Some of you probably already know about it. I usually don't have too much of a problem with fogging since I preheat the cabin well before I get to the car and make sure A/C is on. I have the OG vents.
This stuff is easy to apply, but if you over-apply the spray, it takes a while to buff out. Check out the video on the website -- it really does work that well.�
Jan 11, 2014
Doug_G The fogging is more of an issue in extreme temperatures at highway speed, when there's a lot of very cold airflow cooling the glass. The upgraded vents are a major improvement.
If you're at -5C then you probably can just leave the HVAC setting on Auto.
At -15C the side windows will start fogging up unless you turn defog mode on.
At -27C normal defog mode will only clear the area around the rear view mirrors. That's certainly helpful, but you need to put defog on high to (mostly) clear the side windows. Interestingly at that temperature the outer 2" of the windshield also fogs up on the normal defog setting, but it doesn't really impact visibility.
I will say I've had gas cars that had far worse defogging capabilities than the Model S (with upgraded grilles). It would be helpful to have dedicated side window vents, but it's not an absolute necessity.�
Jan 12, 2014
mknox Mentioned earlier, but I have found that if I remember to over-ride the Auto Recirculation setting and put it on outside air, I have virtually no fogging problems. If I forget and leave it on Auto, I will invariably get some fogging depending on the temperature/humidity. I am convinced Tesla's auto setting is using Recirculate which is a huge no-no in the winter.
The problem is that when I use the app to pre-heat the car,it over-rides all my settings and puts the HVAC in full Auto and I always have to remember to over-ride the Recirc.�
Jan 12, 2014
brianman Just a small update...
I was out of town some for the holidays so some of winter my car got a break from driving. That said, I'm still in "AC off" mode for almost 3 months now. No fogging issues thus far.�
Jan 12, 2014
mknox I will also turn a/c Off if I think of it. I find it odd to find it 'On' sometimes even in the extreme cold. Every other car I've owned will not allow the a/c compressor to come on, even with defrost, if the temperature is below something like 40 F. I've heard it is bad for a/c systems to run in the cold, but maybe Tesla's system is different somehow.�
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