Sep 4, 2015
pkz0125 I am getting my model s by the end of this month or early next month. I live in Cary, NC and got a quote from the Tesla recommended [FONT="]NC Electrical Group L.L.C.[/FONT] Nick was very nice and friendly but the quote came out at $850. Does it have to cost that much? My layout is simple. The panel is already in the garage and the outlet will be on the opposite wall. The wires will run through a PVC pipe. The panel has no room left but Nick said he will combine two existing circuit breakers and make room for another one for the car.
My question: Is this a realistic quote or should I shop around?
BTW does anybody have recommendations for a good electrician in RTP, Cary, Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill area?�
Sep 4, 2015
mikeash Always shop around. You never know, you might find cheaper! And you might try asking for just an outlet, without saying what it's for. Some places seem to start seeing green when they hear "Tesla."
That said, it doesn't sound too unreasonable to me (I know almost nothing here) given that it has to go across the garage. Mine cost about $400 including permit, but the outlet is directly below the panel.�
Sep 4, 2015
FlasherZ It's always helpful to have 2-3 quotes in hand.
How far is the opposite wall and how tall is your garage ceiling? Will the PVC conduit be run on the surface, or in the wall? Is your panel surface-mount, or do you have to tunnel into the wall to connect the conduit? Do you happen to know permit charges in your area?
At retail, figure approx. $2/ft for wire price, $1/ft for conduit & fittings, $20 for breaker, $25 for box, receptacle, and cover. Assume ~$100/hr labor. Add permit and inspection fees. If work is done in attic or ceilings, add extra labor.
So an "opposite wall" of the garage with 10 ft ceilings and 25 ft. length, surface mount panel, I'd figure a 40 ft. run (7.5 up, 7.5 down, 25 ft lateral) @ about $200 parts, 2-3 hr labor ($200-300), + permit costs (keep in mind your electrician gets paid labor while waiting for inspectors and permits too!). That's very, very rough.�
Sep 4, 2015
pkz0125
All great points. This is the kind of analytical help I was looking for. Your distances are correct. The PVC will run on the surface. The panel is tunneled into the wall. I will look up the service charges.
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The first guy knew right away this was for Tesla without my saying anything. If I don't mention it, I have two questions:
1. Does who installs the outlet and how affect the warranty in any way (may be a good question for my DS too)
2. How do I ask the electrician to make the set up Tesla compliant? On the Tesla website, I don't see much other than 'use copper wires'... sorry I am not much of an electrician guy�
Sep 4, 2015
jaguar36 Who installs the outlet has no effect on your warranty.
There isn't such a thing as Tesla compliant. As long as the outlet is installed per code you should be good to go.�
Sep 4, 2015
steph280 Just for your reference, our junction box is outside. We had our outlet installed right on the other side of the wall inside garage and it was $350. But if we ask them to route it to the other side of garage it was close to $1000. So your quote sounds about tight. But do get multiple estimates.�
Sep 4, 2015
Panoz I can tell you I just got an estimate of $1,200 to run metal conduit from the house-wall side of the garage to the back wall of the garage (back wall meaning where the movable doors are, where the car enters the garage). I checked with my Tesla rep ("ownership specialist") and he thinks that is a fair price for an 80 amp run to the back of the garage.�
Sep 4, 2015
MorrisonHiker I recently paid ~$1800 to have two NEMA 14-50 outlets in my garage. I don't know the exact measurements but it was probably 80 to 100 feet from the main panel to the subpanel in the garage. They upgraded the breakers in the main panel from 40 to 100 amps and upgraded half of the breakers in the garage subpanel. Inside the garage, they had to do runs of about 35 feet and 50 feet (partially in conduit). It took the guy two entire days and he had help for one hour when pulling the cable through the metal conduit along the back of the house.
While $1800 might sound expensive, It was a lot cheaper than the $7000 quote that the first electrician gave me!�
Sep 4, 2015
Max* Personal experience:
3 Tesla recommended electricians $1,200-$1,600
5 Regular electricians $400-$800
I went with the cheapest one (he seemed very competent, and had good reviews). Did a great job.
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I thought so too, but they're not stupid. If you say (like I did) that you need a 50A RV outlet, in your garage/carport/etc. they will assume it's for a car.
As soon as the electrician I used showed up (I was being paranoid that if he saw the car, he'd double his quote, so I parked it far enough away so he wouldn't see it), he asked "car charger? do you park nose in or nose out?".�
Sep 4, 2015
yobigd20 if you pay more than $400 you got ripped off.�
Sep 4, 2015
BoldSharpe I'd agree with the others here. Any qualified electrician will know how to install a 14-50 so utilizing a Tesla recommended installer simply is not necessary. While a HPWC drawing 80 Amps is a bit more complex, again, a good electrician can handle it no problem.
FlasherZ's rough estimates are a great barometer to compare your quote against and I'd suggest asking for a more granular breakdown on the quote if the price doesn't align with your expectations.�
Sep 4, 2015
Panoz I've just asked Handyman Connection for a free estimate to install a 100-amp "outlet box". I'll try to remember to update this thread to see if meets or beats my $1,200 estimate from the Tesla-approved electrician.�
Sep 4, 2015
Max* One more thing about the Tesla quotes, when I politely declined for them to waste my time to come to my house and give me a written quote, they kept pestering me (they told me it's free for them to come over, and they'll get a better idea of what I need -- even though I outlined the total run length, wire gauge, and run specifics of what I'd like done, blah blah blah)
I got pissed and replied with a parts price breakdown from homedepot + permit cost and showed them that they're trying to charge me over $1k in labor for a 2 hour job. They replied with "well that was just a ballpark, we've done Tesla installs for as low as $400" (which is exactly the offer I got from a non-Tesla certified electrician).
Don't waste your time with Tesla electricians, they try to price gouge.�
Sep 4, 2015
davewill When shopping for that "cheap" quote, watch out for guys who say you don't need a permit. You certainly DO need a permit in almost every jurisdiction, and the inspection helps protect you from burning your house down with because of shoddy electrical work.�
Sep 4, 2015
MorrisonHiker As I mentioned in other threads, I had the opposite experience with my install. The non-Tesla electrician wanted $7000. Another wanted something like $2800. The Tesla Recommended one was the cheapest at $1800...so I don't think it hurts to get multiple estimates.
BTW, one of the recommended ones never got back to me. I notified Tesla of my repeated attempts to get an estimate. They are no longer a recommended electrician.�
Sep 4, 2015
FlasherZ Come on, it's not that easy. He said the distances were about right from my analysis, so parts are going to be about $200 alone. It takes about 2-3 hours to do a job like that, so figure $200-300 labor in Cary. Then you need permit fees and inspection fees and the labor for the electrician to be there for permitting.
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Just a point: in most jurisdictions, not almost every jurisdiction. There is a good portion of the US (especially predominantly rural areas) that do not have permit / inspection requirements. A majority of the larger municipalities near me do require it, though.�
Sep 4, 2015
mikeash As the others have said, there's nothing special you need for a Tesla. A standard NEMA 14-50 outlet with wiring and a breaker sized for 50A is all you need.�
Sep 4, 2015
pkz0125 Thank you all for the help. The permit is required in my area. Cary is expensive but $100/hour sounds too much for electrical work. It might be the norm here who knows. On a side note, I moved here from Chicago land 2 years ago. Everybody and every website that compares expenses in different areas indicated that Cary would be cheaper but they were all wrong. Chicago land is cheaper in almost every aspect except for property taxes and gas. Gas won't be an issue soon.
I will get more quotes and report back.�
Sep 4, 2015
mikeash True, but I still think it's helpful. For one, they don't know what kind of car. The ability to gouge somebody who bought a used LEAF for $13,000 is going to be different from the ability to gouge somebody who bought a new P90DL. For another, it injects an element of doubt. Sure, it's probably for a car, but maybe it's not? You can use those outlets for other things, after all. Finally, I think it's a good signal that says, I know at least a little bit about what I'm doing, have some idea of what this should cost, and am price conscious, so don't try to rip me off if you actually want the job.
Who knows, I could be full of it. But there's nothing wrong with just asking for exactly what you need, without unnecessary context. And once the person shows up to actually do the work, you can still talk his ear off about Tesla at that point.�
Sep 4, 2015
FlasherZ I suspect it's more like $85-90/hr, but I use $100 as rule-of-thumb.�
Sep 4, 2015
yobigd20 its 40ft, its not that far. if you pay over $400 I'm sorry but you totally got ripped off. and to the person that paid $1800 and thought it was a deal .... WOW ... sorry to burst your bubble but you paid 3x more than you should have. electricians will try to price gouge because it is a very small job and they dont want to do it. its a waste of their time that they could be taking on larger jobs with larger profits so to offset that they just name some ridiculously high quote and see if you're sucker enough to fall for it.�
Sep 4, 2015
MorrisonHiker It was a much better deal that the $7000 the first guy wanted...and I never said it was a deal...just that's the quote that I went with.
I don't have the expertise to do it myself...and based on FlasherZ's estimates, the price was about right. (15+ hours of labor x $85 to $100 + $2x200 feet for wire+ $1x100 feet for conduit + ~10 x $20 breakers = $1975 to $2200 vs. the $1800 I paid)
They spent nearly 16 hours doing the install because of the way my house and garage were built, how the conduit had to be run and because many of the old breakers in my panels needed to be replaced with half-height breakers.
I guarantee you couldn't have done this job yourself in a few hours for $400.�
Sep 4, 2015
SCDrJ My experience here has been:
1) current home, licensed non-Tesla electrician, no permit, 14-50 and breaker on opposite side of same wall (just breaking through back of panel basically) - $340 parts and labor
2) new build, wired from panel across to other side of 2 car garage, custom quoted as part of whole-house electrical plan, so permitted as part of that - $630 - wasn't sure I could do all that much better after closing and having it built into the wall from day 1 was worth it to me.
3) same company quoted me to run #2 wire and 100A breaker to a blank junction box for future HPWC and that would have been $2850. I said no thanks as the wire is like $5/foot and circuit breakers are like $30-50... Maybe there's something I'm missing with running thick wire etc. but I don't think so.�
Sep 4, 2015
pkz0125 What location was that? AZ?�
Sep 4, 2015
yobigd20 actually my run was 125ft and involved a bunch of music circuit breakers and changes to half height breakers to make room and yes it was only a few hours.�
Sep 4, 2015
Cyclone If it matters, previous electrical work I've had done in my house (not Tesla-related) was close to $100/hour as well.�
Sep 4, 2015
David_Cary 2007 - Had an electrician in Cary with a labor rate of $125. Charged me time spent eating McDs in the van. I do believe that included an assistant.
2011 - Had an electrician with 2 assistants do about 6 hours worth of work for $350 (Basement wiring)
Prices are all over the place. That 2011 electrician was licensed but not with a company. I really wish I had his card still. He did a great job.
I'm thinking a 12 pack of beer and some pizza if you don't worry about permits and you live on my side of town....
Chicago is still Midwest. But come on - parking? The price to park downtown Chicago 20 years ago was 5 times what it costs in Raleigh today. But if you lived in suburbs ... then in some ways you are comparing the Midwest to the East coast.
Cary is surrounded by low labor rate areas. Call an electrician from Fuquay, Sanford etc. You can get $50 an hour and it sounds like 1 hour to me. Permit in Cary is $50.�
Sep 4, 2015
jerry33 The "Tesla" electrician never called me back so I don't know what they would have charged, but I got quotes from $350 to $8000.�
Sep 4, 2015
agileone +100�
Sep 4, 2015
Jo- I'm getting bid this week, too, from a "non Tesla" electrician. Just right off the box in my garage (unless something weird comes up). Will post my estimate as well.�
Sep 4, 2015
CHG-ON Considering the run is across the garage, I don't see that as being too extreme. I have seen much higher prices on these forums. But I live in CA, which is very expensive. I paid 350 for a very short run. It's a very simple install, but you do want to make sure they do it right because it is a fairly heavy load.�
Sep 4, 2015
vchadha Mine was a simple installation. Tesla recommended company was $900. I got a local electrician to do it for $200.�
Sep 4, 2015
Panoz I have a $1,200 estimate from the Tesla electrician, and have a local guy coming for an estimate next week. I'll report back.�
Sep 4, 2015
FlasherZ I keep thinking about putting cost estimation into the FAQ, but copper prices change so much that I'd have to update it frequently for the wiring cost estimates. For 50A circuits, what I post above is a good estimate to benchmark others against. Typical permit/inspection fees (including labor for electrician running to the municipal or county facility) tend to run $100-300 as well, as required.�
Sep 4, 2015
roblab It is sad, but people who specialize get to charge a bunch.
With very little research, I found out what code required. I have installed outlets. I know about wiring a circuit breaker. It is just a notch above putting in a new outlet in your house. Of course, all the "electricians" on this forum will get excited, but it's only an outlet. You already know about the conduit, and I suspect you know it takes #6 wire. The outlet and the box, the conduit and the wire cost me less than $100 at Home Depot for my garage outlet. I put it in. I am allowed to do this without a permit where I live, as it is my house. (An electrician might have to have a permit) I might have spent 4 hours, but I doubt it.
That's my side. I think "electricians" who charge $500 to $1000 deserve to go hungry, and I encourage intelligent people to check it out, learn, and do it yourself. Unless you think it is worth your money to pay an electrician what may seem exorbitant and price gouging fees.�
Sep 4, 2015
dhrivnak I too did it myself. $90 of parts and a morning in the garage. Very simple actually. Once I discovered that ground and neutral are separate and distinct.�
Sep 4, 2015
gaswalla Tell them you just got a used Leaf, very excited - got it for 11k, you're excited because you can now afford things you couldn't before because no more gas. It will need a 240v 14-50 plug. Then get an estimate.�
Sep 4, 2015
pgiralt Nick did the work in my house long before he was Tesla recommended. In fact, the Tesla recommended Mr. electric came in much higher than Nick's quote. I had quite a bit more work done as I needed a new 100 amp sub panel installed which was over 100 ft away through my basement soffits to the outside panel by the meter.
That said, $850 seems a little high considering how much more he did for me and I think I paid $1200 if I remember correctly for the 100A run, new recessed sub panel, and similar conduit run to the 14-50 (which I ended up replacing myself with new conduit and wire to make it a HPWC). He does great work and has done similar work for two of my friends. I'd ask him for a breakdown of where the costs are. Maybe he will negotiate on the price a bit. His fees will include all the Town of Cary permits.�
Sep 4, 2015
linkster or
Your cousins (The Griswolds) come to visit you annually in their huge camper and they need some kinda 50 volt 4-prong outlet thingy to attach to in order to run both of their A/C units.�
Sep 4, 2015
FlasherZ I agree with you that it is one of the easier installations, but there are a few elements that come into play - with this level of continuous current, torque of connections (and occasional re-torque) is absolutely key for safety, at both the circuit breaker and receptacle. In addition, for conduits you need to make sure you have the proper insulating bushings, which is different from typical 12/2 NM installation with a clamp. If you pay attention to those, it's pretty easy and you can save money by doing it yourself.
With regard to permits: typically, a homeowner is allowed to do the work without being a licensed electrician, but still requires a permit and inspection (sec 7044(a), CA Business and Professions Code).
Napa County appears to require a permit, even if you're a homeowner. It adopts the 2013 California Electrical Code in Napa County Code 15.28.010:
...and the California Electric Code requirements for permits:
Section 15.28 of the Napa County Code addresses some changes for vineyards and keeping work space clear for PV system equipment, but does not modify any of the requirements for permits in 89.108. The chief electrical inspector is defined as the county building officer.
They list fees for electrical permits @ $79.33 for rough + final. They note "same day" permits for minor electrical & plumbing, and specifically list types 1 & 2 EVSE installation. Their permit application requires you to make a declaration that either a) you're the property owner and it is not a commercial building/offered for sale, or b) you're a licensed electrician, so the application doesn't seem to exempt property owners. I will say, though, that their site is pretty confusing and tends to cover mainly erection of new structures - but the code reads to require permits for installation of new receptacles and branch circuits and I see nothing that tends to exempt homeowners from permit/inspection requirements.
That said, the county building officer gets to make the call. A phone call to the county building office will determine it - I would call them before doing any work in the future to confirm whether or not a permit is required. All the places I've done work required permits and inspections for homeowners, but did not require a homeowner to be a licensed contractor unless the building was a commercial building (or, sometimes, was leased to tenants).�
Sep 5, 2015
SCDrJ Yes indeed. Building with Toll Brothers in Scottsdale. The houses don't come with much electrical "standard".... Recessed lighting, hanging fixtures etc are all extra. So when we were designing the home electrical plan I said "how much for a 14-50 outlet in the garage for electric car charging?" We put in extra fridge outlets, 120v for current Prius plug-in and the Tesla outlet. Garage is wired up!
Took them a bit of time for the custom quote but it was one of the few things I thought I wasn't being gouged too badly for. Although when you think about it when they are wiring a whole house the incremental cost of adding this even with profit added was probably half what I paid, I figured I couldn't beat it on the outside by much if at all and it is built in and under whole house warranty.�
Sep 5, 2015
smsprague Another data point. I used an electrician I have used on other jobs. 150 ft run from box (I had the breaker room in my existing box) up to and over roof. Total $850.�
Sep 5, 2015
brec The two recommended electricians in the Reno, NV area, for my house which has the CB box on the opposite side from the garage and requires running cable through the crawl space underneath: $900 and $975 including county inspection/permit.�
Sep 5, 2015
ozweepay I had two electricians both estimate $450 for the job. Both said 4 hours of work. I'm no electrician, but how can it take 4 hours to replace the existing 30A breaker with a combo 30A/50A breaker (10 mins), run 15ft of #6 wire along a wall (1 hr?!) and install an outlet (30 mins)? Am I missing something here?
One quoted $125/hr first hour, $75/hr thereafter. Seems reasonable to me.�
Sep 5, 2015
gavine If you're uncomfortable working with electricity, but still want to save money, why not run the wire/conduit yourself and then just pay an electrician to connect the wire to the outlet and breaker?�
Sep 5, 2015
Cyclone Would there also need to be an inspection and permit that covers another hour or two of labor time for the electrician to sit around waiting on or filling out paperwork?�
Sep 5, 2015
Max* I guess it depends on the jurisdiction. Permit is online where I'm at, and very quick.
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I got quoted 4 hours for a job I thought would take 2. I locked them in the basement and went to work, so I don't know how long it actually took.
But it was a flat rate, sop i guess I don't care.�
Sep 5, 2015
Khatsalano Yea, shop around. The Tesla-recommended ones here were 50% more expensive and not responsive to my RFP as much as highly-rated Yelp electricians I found. I have a similar situation to the OP, except I went the HPWC route. Total cost was $500, including all materials ... and that's in California.
- K�
Sep 5, 2015
wcfinvader Excellent idea. We wired the one at my brother's house ourselves. It's really pretty simple but if the idea of working with electricity scares you then do as gavine suggested. YouTube is your friend btw.�
Sep 6, 2015
Cyclone Hmmm. Would one need conduit if the wiring is running behind drywal? In particular, I'm going to need a subpanel to be wired up in the garage from the basement since my main panel already is using half-height breakers for almost all 120v circuits.�
Sep 6, 2015
fieldalias My panel is by the garage, and had the outlet installed about 1ft away. Total cost was ~$120�
Sep 6, 2015
jerry33 I ended up paying about $4,500 for the electrical work.
1. Upgrade main panel from 150 to 200 amps.
2. Install 100 amp subpanel
3. Install 14-50 (this was done prior to the main panel upgrade).
4. Install two 20 amp circuits for washer and dryer.
5. Install Clipper Creek HCS-40 (this was done after the subpanel installation and was about $200).
6. Reroute the UPS feed to the 100 amp subpanel.
7. Install an outside LED motion sensor light (also done before the subpanel installation)
So I had five or six trips in total for the electrician and his helper and something like 10 m of conduit.
in the end the the outside light and the 14-50 run off the main panel, while the HCS-40, washer, dryer, and 6 KVA UPS run from the subpanel.
Had my crystal ball been working it would have been at least 30% less.�
Sep 6, 2015
yobigd20 While that was more that just a 14-50 install, I still think we have a winner for who got ripped off the most. Wow.
Where are you guys finding these electricians?? And you're ok with their prices? That doesn't seem really high to you? I would think common sense should kick in that you're being taken advantage of.�
Sep 6, 2015
jerry33 All together it was about twenty hours of labour for two people plus the parts. I received quotes for up to $8K for just #1 plus #3.�
Sep 6, 2015
eye.surgeon Ridiculous. You could $400 on wiring and conduit alone for a long run.�
Sep 6, 2015
FlasherZ If running the wiring inside the wall, you are permitted to use NM in most jurisdictions. Chicago and some localities in NY do not permit NM cable and require conduit everywhere. If running on the surface of the wall, generally anything under 7' must be sleeved in EMT or PVC to protect from physical damage.
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Service panel upgrades generally run $2,500 including equipment. 100A subpanel will require a 4-wire feed @ about $5-6/ft for wire and conduit, fittings, etc. - and 100 ft from service panel to garage with labor (especially if attic) will run you about $800-1000. Rerouting UPS/genset feed (depending on size) is likely going to be $500-1000 depending on distance. I can see how it could reach that easily at typical labor rates and with typical permit/inspection fees that run upwards of $200+ per modification. Unless you're driving to pick up your help at home improvement stores in the morning, it's not a rip-off, especially if you're not intimately familiar with code and you have permit/inspection requirements.�
Sep 6, 2015
FlatSix911 Flasher, thanks for providing the information for a rough electrical estimate ... very helpful!
I used your data to calculate the new 50ft. run in my garage, $200 Materials + $500 Labor = $700 Total.
(Electrician installed both a NEMA 14-50 for a UMC and a wall mounted HPWC with a bypass switch in 5 hours)
A cost estimator in the FAQ would answer a lot of questions and provide a useful price range.�
Sep 23, 2015
bancroftc Another point of reference - I paid a little over $1,400 for a NEMA 14-50 install just yesterday. I used one of the two Tesla recommended installers that focus almost entirely on EV installs. While I didn't shop around, they did get phenomenal reviews on Yelp and Google from other customers. Usually I would quote out a job like this but for whatever reason felt more comfortable going with Tesla's recommendation. Main panel is on back of my garage, so they had to run around the exterior of my house to the back left of my garage in order to go through the wall and into my garage.
The job entailed (summarized from my invoice):
-Extracting 2 very old 60A breakers from sub panel
-Replacing with 2 skinny 50A breakers to fit
-180' #8 THNN copper from main to mount point
-60' #10 THNN copper ground from main to mount
-60' 3/4" EMT conduit from main to mount
-Exterior brick drill out 1" with weather sealing
-Interior cut out and flush mount NEMA 14-50, including all associated parts
-Exterior mounting of EMT conduit + associated parts
-4 hours labor, two guys. It took them about 4 hours of work to complete.
Worth noting that my electric utility, Austin Energy, offers a 50% rebate on EV charger install cost and the guys are handing all that paperwork/submission. There is also another 30% federal tax rebate on top of that. So my net after rebates is (or will be) $295. I was not aware of either of these rebates until my install guys mentioned them.
$1,400 bucks for an outlet install seemed like a lot, but there was quite a bit more work involved than I had anticipated. Did they increase the costs it in light of the rebates? Probably. But if I'm out for $295 at the end of the day I'm not complaining one bit.�
Sep 23, 2015
Cyclone The 30% Fed Credit for EVSE installation got extended to 2015? I thought it ended in 2014.�
Sep 23, 2015
MorrisonHiker I don't know if the 30% federal rebate still exists. I remember it was added at the very end of the year last year (for 2014 installs) but I haven't seen any confirmation that there is one available for 2015 installs. I'll definitely be researching that more when I do my taxes next year as it would save me over $500 if they extended it through 2015.�
Sep 23, 2015
CHGolferJim My quote from Nick (still collecting others):
- 70a 16 circuit sub-panel on garage interior wall next to the main panel (which is full)
- will use 4 circuits, reserve 12 for future use
- move 2 circuits from main panel to sub panel to make room for the 70a breaker
- 50a outlet between garage doors (wire run in PVC pipe)
- permits and fees
- $800?�
Oct 5, 2015
bancroftc I just got an email from the guy that did my charger install and he provided me with this info, suggesting that the EVSE credit will be (or has already been?) extended. If anyone else has any additional color on this I would be curious to hear what you know.
NGT News - Next-Gen Transportation: Senate Panel Passes Bill With Alt-Fuel Tax Credit Extensions�
Oct 5, 2015
MorrisonHiker That will be awesome news if it passes. Hopefully I'll be able to claim it when filing my 2015 taxes. According to that article, it was approved by the committee but the bill still needs to be approved by the senate. I'll have to search around and see if I can track it down. I would think that we would've heard more about it if it had already been approved.
BTW, your long link didn't work for me but it did work when I removed the # and everything after it.�
Oct 5, 2015
Chris TX Step 1: DO NOT tell them this is for a Tesla. Just say it will be a 14-50 going to a 50A breaker for a ceramics kiln or welder. When they come over, hide your car if you've already taken delivery.
As soon as they see it's for a $100k electric car, they jack the price up because they know you will need it, no matter what.�
Oct 5, 2015
Cyclone Woohoo! This will make a big difference for me. I'm still on 120v because of the cost to get a 240v receptacle installed. I'll have to look into getting this done ASAP. Thank you!�
Oct 5, 2015
MorrisonHiker The Tesla recommended electrician was actually the cheapest of the estimates that I got, coming in $1000 below the second cheapest estimate and $5200 below the third estimate.
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It looks like it was approved by the committee but still needs a senate vote (according to that article). Hopefully it will get extended. Wasn't it last year that it came down to the last week or so of December before it was approved?�
Oct 5, 2015
Chris TX That's because they want to keep getting Tesla referrals. You're still going to get a better price if you say it's for a welder or kiln, and not mention anything about a car.�
Oct 5, 2015
CHGolferJim If you use a guy experienced in building stations for people who have or admit to ordering Teslas, it will be hard to convince him it's for anything else. They're also probably busy enough to hold their prices. I don't know enough about electricity to be confident this is an ordinary job for an ordinary electrician.�
Oct 5, 2015
Chris TX A 14-50 outlet is a 14-50 outlet. As long as "an ordinary electrician" installs it up to code and properly torques everything, it's going to work for a car. There's nothing special about the installation in regards to plugging a Tesla UMC, a kiln, a welder, or an RV plug into it.�
Oct 5, 2015
Max* While I did exactly this. Electricians are not stupid. I asked for an RV outlet. As soon as the guy showed up (my car was no where in sight), he comes out and asks "electric car? you park nose in or nose out?"�
Oct 5, 2015
green1 To those saying anything over $400 is a rip off, you guys must have MUCH cheaper prices down there!
I did the work myself, and bought the parts from an electrical wholesaler (about half the price of home depot generally), the breaker alone was over $120, add in all the other supplies and my simple run 20ft from the panel worked out to almost $300, bringing the parts up to retail cost and adding labour there's no way anyone would have done it for $400.�
Oct 6, 2015
grichard Just paid right around $1000. Total run about 100 feet. Included drilling through block foundation from basement service panel up through bottom of garage wall. Annoying run around the edges of the garage ceiling. The cable was non-metallic inside the basement and rigid conduit in the garage.
Not cheap, but seemed appropriate.�
Oct 6, 2015
yobigd20 That breaker shouldn't cost more than $10 or $15 bucks. What the !$!$! kind of breaker are you using?? lol never heard of anything even remotely close to that price.
Cable shouldn't cost you more than 50 bucks. Box and receptacle another 30 or so. All in all parts are less than $100 easy.�
Oct 6, 2015
rlang59
Maybe a GFCI breaker?
This one would be about $120CAD:
Square D Homeline 50 Amp Two-Pole GFCI Circuit Breaker-HOM250GFICP - The Home Depot�
Oct 6, 2015
green1 Well, in the store I remember the guy telling me it was the breaker that was so expensive (and considering my hot tub 50A GFCI was over $200 I assumed that to be correct), but now I'm looking back over the invoice, and the breaker was $15.63, it was the outlet that was $125.00 (Home depot actually doesn't carry either the breaker nor the outlet around here)
wire was $76.22, mud ring was $4.16, cable connector was $.92, all other items I already had lying around at home. Total invoice was $233.03 after tax.�
Oct 6, 2015
mspohr I used this box and 14-50 socket from Home Depot. $27
Eaton 50-Amp 1-Space 1-Circuit Temporary RV Power Outlet Box-CHU1S - The Home Depot
This circuit breaker. $12
GE Q-Line 50-Amp 2 in. Double Pole Circuit Breaker-THQL2150 - The Home Depot
(My EVSE has built-in GFCI so not necessary on breaker.)
6 gauge wire (50 feet) was about $75
Flexible conduit (50 feet) was $30
So, about $150 for parts.
Digging a trench for the conduit... priceless�
Oct 6, 2015
green1 So basically what you're saying is that I was screwed for living in Canada... don't worry, I'm used to it.�
Oct 6, 2015
DMC-Orangeville No, you aren't really getting screwed in Canada, but our CEC requires a few of different things than the USA.
1. GFCI is required if outdoors. It doesn't matter if the HPWC has one inside it.
2. A visible means of disconnect is required. Most electricians use a spa panel, as it does both 1. and 2. They are worth about $100 $CDN
3. Most jurisdictions in Canada require that you take out a permit prior to installation and an inspection afterwards. A study may have to be done to make sure the existing electrical system isn't being overloaded (example - an 80 amp 240 Volt load on a 100 amp 240 volt system). You can do your own work in most provinces, but the inspector will be extremely detailed in his inspection. In most cases the permit and inspection could be $150-$300. No permit or inspection? - don't have a fire, or your house insurance may not cover you.....
The wire, boxes and connectors are very similar in price between the USA and Canada (I'm in the business)
All in all, it will cost more than some simple installations, and may warrant bringing in a licensed contractor to do everything. I did, and I don't regret it�
Oct 7, 2015
AWDtsla Visible disconnect is not required for circuits less than 60 Amps.
Doing a NEMA 14-50 install is _dead simple_. Run #6 romex cable from load center, cheap socket and cheap breaker. A reasonably skilled DIYer could do in in a couple hours. It's really no more complicated than a regular 15/20 amp socket install.
Things only get complicated if you go above 60 Amps as there is no legal romex available for HPWC type installs, wires must be run in conduit, etc, etc, etc. Good reason to stick with NEMA 14-50 unless you absolutely need fast charging.�
Oct 7, 2015
Solarwind Mine cost $15 the cost of plug. I had a number 10, for a heater, on the inside of the wall where the car is parked. Drilled a hole shoved the wire through and installed the plug. Set the car to 30 amps the rating on breaker and has worked perfect for 10 months.�
Oct 7, 2015
pgiralt If you are running #10 wire and a 30 amp breaker, you should not be charging at 30 amps. You should be charging at 80% of that which is 24 Amps. I'm surprised you haven't tripped the breaker.�
Oct 7, 2015
AWDtsla Yeah that's a fire hazard, #10 is rated for 30A max, but derated to 80%, or 24A for continuous. Theoretically your breaker should break after a few minutes at 30A
http://www.usawire-cable.com/pdfs/nec%20ampacities.pdf�
Oct 7, 2015
cpa I did not bother to read the article. The historical wording of the law that allows the credit is that the credit is not allowed for Alternative Minimum Tax. Yes, the $7,500 BEV credit upon purchase of your Tesla is. Maybe the way they are changing the wording in the law to allow this credit against AMT.
So, if a taxpayer is subject to AMT, he can wave the EVSE credit goodbye. If your income is north of $650,000 or so, the chances are that your regular tax exceeds AMT anyway, so you will get to utilize the 30% EVSE credit. But if your income is like many who can purchase a Tesla, the EVSE credit will evaporate.
This is my understanding of the law, and how it applied in my case and the case of a client.�
Oct 7, 2015
Solarwind If you leave the car at 40A the breaker will kick after 8-10 minutes. I have seen breakers rated at 30 that won't hold at 25. While traveling cross country we stayed at a place with a 30A plug on a 30A breaker, dryer plug. We had no problem charging at 30A. My guess is if your electric system is in good shape it is possible to charge at rated current and have a slight margin. As you point out though it is better to leave a large margin in case of poor connection nicked wire or bad breaker.�
Oct 7, 2015
AWDtsla That's just the breaker, and it sounds like it's defective. It says nothing about the temperature of the wire and connectors in the path, which is where the fire hazard is. At 40 amps I think there's a good chance you might melt the romex insulation and get a short inside the wall. #10 romex is too small for 40 amps continuous draw.
Fire hazard.�
Oct 8, 2015
Max* The margin isn't for a poor connection or nicked wire. It's what the electrical code demands to prevent a fire hazard (however small or large that chance is). I forgot which way it goes (FlasherZ would correct me) it's either 80% of the breaker loading, or your breaker is supposed to handle 125% of the continuous load (the math is the same, but the code specifies it one specific way).
If you used the Tesla 30A dryer plug, your car automatically de-rated it to 24A. If you used a NEMA 14-50 to xx-xx adapter (whatever model of 30A dryer you had), then you could've [unsafely] set the car to charge at the full 30A. While I understand that you feel comfortable breaking the code, but you shouldn't advertise other people to do the same.�
Oct 8, 2015
FlatSix911 I am confused after reading the thread and the NEC allowable ampacities guide ...
It seems that using a conductor with a higher temp rating will solve the problem.
i.e. A Type THHN #10 conductor is rated for 40A and derated for 32A continuous load.
�
Oct 8, 2015
AWDtsla
If you have #10 THHN and components rated for 90C, sure. That's special wire that is run through conduits only. Do you see single wires run through metal/pvc conduit?
If you have nm-b/romex cable in the walls like every other normal house, then you should be using the 60C column, which is 30A/24A continuous�
Oct 8, 2015
FlatSix911 Thanks. I am not the OP here, but the explanation makes sense if you are using existing household wiring.�
Oct 9, 2015
linkster +1 !
Solar
Please don't leave any family members (and CERTAINLY pets!) at home while charging. Also, I would highly recommend an off-site back-up for your data.�
Oct 9, 2015
mspohr It sounds like it would be relatively easy (and cheap) to upgrade your installation to a safe one.
Just invest $12 in a new 50 amp breaker and a few dollars in a short piece of 6/3 Romex wire and you should be able sleep well (even when charging at 40 amps).�
Oct 12, 2015
zzzzdoc I did it myself and my breaker box was inside the house. Cost me about 75$ in parts or less since I had a few around the house. Its just a dryer outlet with a little larger breaker.
�
Oct 12, 2015
yobigd20 Worked for me. Told him it was for RV outlet for my brother's RV. Cost $350 total.�
Oct 13, 2015
Max* Exactly�
Oct 13, 2015
Chris TX I paid <$400, and I stand by my point. Electricians are not stupid, you can tell them it's for an RV, but I bet many will assume it's for an EV. Not all of them are going to jack up the price.�
Oct 13, 2015
Max* No one is saying electricians are stupid. But, if you tell them "I want an RV outlet in my garage" they know it's for an EV, since very few home garages can accommodate an RV. If you say "I want to install a 50A outlet for a kiln/welder in my garage" it's going to be more plausible. It's the smarter ones that figure out you've bought an expensive electric car and jack up the price.�
Oct 13, 2015
AWDtsla Smarter? I doubt it. Greedier, definitely.�
Oct 13, 2015
Max* Do your homework and call them on their bull****. I'm installing a whole new load center plus multiple new circuits for a half to a quarter of the cost you guys are paying an electrician for one circuit. The parts for the 14-50 circuit alone come to a whopping $40 at the local home depot. Add $3 per additional foot it is away from the load center.�
Oct 13, 2015
Chris TX I did, they backpedaled. It was a waste of time.
I emailed the Tesla "authorized" installers, got $1,200-1,600 as a starting point over email. When I said parts cost $200 at HD, permits are $100, and you're charging me $1,300 for labor on a 2-3 hour job (I described the job and emailed pics, all the other contractors said they don't need to come out to see it, pics and details were good enough) - they replied with, "well we've had jobs as low as $400" and [something along the lines of] "we're playing it safe now, it might cost less". Then WTF did you start with $1,600?
They were not invited into my house, obviously.�
1/1/2015
guest I actually did my own install. It was a 30' run from the box to the outlet. It was less than $125 for everything which included the wire, breaker, old construction box, outlet, faceplate, drill bit for running the wire through a stud, and the breaker box grommet. I got lucky with the wire because there was a 50' remnant of 6/3 Romex for half price per foot at Home Depot.�
Oct 13, 2015
muleferg My first charger was free when I purchased a Leaf in 2012. The installation and wire $400.00. I used it for 21/2 years. It went out and I called my electrician and he came and installed a 14-50 and a 50 amp breaker for $70.00.�
Oct 13, 2015
Chris TX Did you already have the proper gauge wire for a 50A circuit?�
Oct 13, 2015
DuluthDad Agree with the other comments. Get multiple quotes. I simply asked for a 40A plug in my garage. In metro Atlanta I paid $550 all in. But down on the gulf coast of FL I paid about $275. Difference was time of year (everyone is hungrier for the business in the winter in FL) and the fact that in ATL, wiring had to be run inside the walls to get to the garage wall. In FL, the wiring could drop under the house as it is effectively 4 feet off the ground/sand. The receptacle is in a weatherproof box just at the base of the house (about 30" off the ground).
Good luck. Enjoy the MS!!�
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