Apr 13, 2016
navguy12 Experience driving hybrids for the past 9 years has taught me that on the freeway (401 in Ontario), NOT using cruise control always achieves a better rate of fuel economy.
Based on the Model S experience, does one get better empg using a steady foot on the "gas", gain speed going down a long grade (to 120 kph) and letting the speed decay on the uphill rebound (to 100 kph) before gradually applying pressure on the "gas"?
Thanks�
Apr 13, 2016
AnOutsider i find cruise control helps me when I've got a lead foot, bit when trying to drive economically, I'm better off in control.�
Apr 13, 2016
WarpedOne Cruse control is 'too aggressive' at maintaining set speed. It also does not see as far ahead as you do and hence it cannot predict when it is time to step it on and when it is better to let it slow down a bit.
The worst case are low invisible hills that you can only detect by watching energy used in last second.
So, hyper-miling == CC off�
Apr 13, 2016
Socom Yes I agree that CC is a bit too aggressive. I have gotten the best hyper-miling mpg with good old fancy footwork�
Apr 13, 2016
Twiglett hyper-miling in an EV seems completely crazy to me, a pointless exercise until you are on a journey where every mile counts.
I used to drive my leaf with Eco always enabled and power sipping low acceleration etc etc to build all the trees and compete on their website to get better W/mile.
Then I figured out how much I saved. Range was never an issue, so it could only come down to cost.
Driving completely normally, having fun away from lights etc dropped my monthly W/mile from 5.2 to 4.7 and a increase in cost of a small cup of coffee from Starbucks - BFD
My advice - until you are extremely range constrained, don't worry about it. Enjoy the performance and everything the car has to offer, the extra electricity cost is never going to break your bank.�
Apr 13, 2016
plankeye I agree. It would be a shamed to drive the M3 the way I drive our Prius C. Although, hypermiling in the Prius C really can achieve some amazing mileage gains.�
Apr 13, 2016
navguy12 Thanks folks for the inputs.
From the replies I'll assume the Tesla S cruise control does not "see ahead" based on GPS and autonomous driving data points.
I'd like to see an "eco" cruise control program written into the software where one enters a max and min highway speed desired, a watts per km to aim for (based on distance to destination charger/home) versus having to stop at a supercharger.�
Apr 13, 2016
brianman That's exactly when I use such tactics. As an example, I recently did a 100+ mile trip with 15 rated miles buffer. I arrived with 4 rated miles remaining. The more you drive the S, the easier it gets to keep it above zero.
�
Apr 13, 2016
brianman Me too:
Efficiency Miser Mode�
Apr 13, 2016
kort677 with the 250+ mile range of a tesla at 70 mph I feel that there really is little need for miserly mode or hypermileing. If I was driving a leaf maybe I'd be more concerned about my how my driving affects the range of such a range limited car�
Apr 13, 2016
brianman You should visit the hilly Northwest during the winter. I'd love it for my car to have 250+ mile range at 70mph in such conditions.�
Apr 13, 2016
navguy12 The reson I'm buying a EV is the driving experience. Trying to sell the current marketplace on the economic merits of an EV is misplaced. No amount of spreadsheet evidence is going to sway someone from gas to electric. But the driving experience will. Much like granite countertops versus laminate, thin screen TV versus CRT, smart phone versus land line.
Thus, the cost of electricity is simply not a strong case to support the move to an EV. I agree, the 10% delta for electricity/fuel on a long EV road trip between driving all out and driving conservatively is moot.
I drive in an economical manner because it make me feel good, which is all that really matters. A by product of my driving habits are less wear on brakes, tires and, I'll assume, the traction battery pack. I'll hold onto a vehicle for at least 8 years and driving it in an economical manner pays dividends to me at the point I sell my vehicle.�
Apr 13, 2016
plankeye I think EV's and hybrids should have a button you can press that would tell the car to accelerate for you. Of course, you would be able to override it with either the brake or "gas." The reason I say this is because the vast majority of extra "gas" wasted is in the takeoff. If the car could accelerate at the optimum rate for efficiency, that would be so much easier than trying to get it right yourself at each stop.�
Apr 13, 2016
brianman Cruise control on autopilot-enabled Model S (for roads where it has a guess at the speed limit, etc. etc.) already does this. The problem is that there's no setting anywhere for "do this efficiently".�
Apr 13, 2016
plankeye Hmmm. Yeah, regular cruise doesn't either. If you are more than a couple of MPH off, it will practically floor it to get up to set point.�
Apr 13, 2016
mspohr Really, if you want to get better empg, just slow down. Everything else that you do is just a rounding error compared to slowing your speed. You can double your empg by slowing down by 20-30 mph. That said, with Tesla's range you shouldn't have to be miserly unless you are on a long distance route with limited charging options. Just enjoy driving the car... and don't be afraid to punch it every once in a while. You'll find you can pass anyone anytime.�
Apr 13, 2016
brianman One minor correction: except other Tesla Model S vehicles. Be careful also of "listening" to other cars to know when the lane is clear -- because sometimes that blind spot will be filled by a silent Tesla.�
Apr 13, 2016
navguy12 Brianman, thanks for the link. Exactly what I'm aiming for. I note the last input on your link is dated 29 Dec 2013.
Has there been any further development of this concept? Thanks. Cheers. Mike.�
Apr 13, 2016
navguy12 You bet. I've had the pleasure of test driving a Model S four times over the past 2 years. On the 3rd drive, I was getting into a "boxed in" situation that, driving my Prius, would have caused me to be trapped behind a slow moving dump truck. Instead, I "punched it". With four souls on board, I could not believe it. Neither could the chap in the left lane doing his best to box me in�
Apr 13, 2016
kort677 I love hot humid flat florida�
Apr 13, 2016
Borgholio Speaking from experience in my Prius, the best gas mileage comes from using a combination of techniques. First, I don't use Eco mode anymore. I used to when I first got it, since it forces you to accelerate slower and lowers the power usage of the A/C. But in truth, setting the A/C temp wisely (a few degrees below outside temp) will keep you cool and use less energy than setting it to frigid in Eco mode. Accelerating slowly is also (counter intuitively) worse for efficiency. It's actually more efficient to use normal (or even power) modes to accelerate briskly and get to your cruising speed quicker. You don't need to floor it, but don't feather it.
Using cruise control is a great idea when terrain is flat, but it's a good idea to disengage and accelerate slightly on the downhill, then re-engage cruise as you begin to decelerate on the uphill portion. That way you can make use of a gravity assist to save fuel, and the cruise control doesn't go crazy when you hit bottom because it couldn't predict the coming uphill.
So with the Model 3, I would expect the same to be true. Use moderate acceleration to get to your cruising speed and then use autopilot to stay there. If you encounter a hill, accelerate down and then engage autopilot as you start to lose momentum on the uphill. Set your A/C to a few degrees below ambient and just keep it to where you are comfortable, no lower than you need.�
Apr 13, 2016
hoang51 I used to try and get the most mileage out of my ICE car. It's a 6 speed manual, I would shift at around 3,000 RPM or so, make it all the way up to 6th gear to save gas. But then I realized, doesn't net me much and it's a slow process, doesn't work well if there's many cars behind me. Now, every now and then, I hit VTEC (5,800+ RPM) for giggles. My gas mileage isn't breaking my bank either. So Twiglett has a point: drive and enjoy the car, not stressing to try and achieve maximum savings. Model 3 should already be saving a load of money coming from an ICE. Enjoy the car.
Once I get my Model 3, I'll be honest: I'm going to put the pedal to the metal because it's more cost effective than my current car. No matter how much energy spent in the Model 3, I'm pretty sure it's a definite savings over my current ICE. It'll cost so little to go from 0-60 MPH...�
Apr 13, 2016
Saghost Well, you're right the S cruise control doesn't - at the moment.
Current generation Tesla cars do understand the terrain profile for routes in the navigation system, however (for the energy planner,) and can see traffic ~600 feet ahead with radar, and possibly further with the camera.
Ford introduced an "Eco-cruise" mode on the Energi twins (and maybe their hybrid siblings?) that attempts to drive more efficiently - I think it's mostly "driving with load" type optimization, letting the speed fall on climbs and rise on descents. Mercedes patented a system a while back for optimizing when to run a range extender in a PHEV based on terrain.
Given all of the above and Tesla's OTA updates, I think it's entirely plausible that at some point in the not too distant future Tesla will introduce an efficiency mode similar to those suggested here where the car plans further ahead and allows the speed to change in an effort to be more efficient (presumably as a configurable option, either linked to or replacing the current "range mode" rather than as the cruise default.)
Walter�
Apr 13, 2016
Tiberius You might get better/more thorough answers in the Model S forum.�
Apr 13, 2016
navguy12 Agreed. Thanks.�
Apr 13, 2016
brianman Nope. I should probably formally forward the request to Tesla though.�
Apr 13, 2016
navguy12 I think that would be a great idea.�
Apr 13, 2016
chipmunk I think it would be interesting to see a study on this. My belief is that you would find the math is not the same in an EV as in a hybrid. In your hill scenario, an EV doesn't need to shift to a less efficient gear to get up a hill. It's very seamless...the cruise control never 'goes crazy.' I agree with the previous comment that you are much more likely to improve efficiency by going slower than trying to optimize for hills. Don't forget, whenever you go faster, wind resistance increases non-linearly and efficiency goes down.�
Apr 13, 2016
Saghost I don't know how generically applicable it is, but the data GM published in SAE papers on the Volt shows that there's still an efficiency curve involved, and a ~10% variation between the efficiency of the Volt motor at moderate RPMs and half it's maximum torque (best efficiency,) and either higher RPMs or maximum torque - and even more loss at really low power outputs, too.
This seems to suggest that an approach that limits the maximum power usage to the most efficient range and avoids regenerating unless decelerating is absolutely necessary could give meaningful gains at any given speed - though of course slowing down will always provide more gain, at least into the 40 mph range (there's a minimum speed where the fixed loads like HVAC and keeping the computers/inverters alive begin to dominate the equation; most EVs are at their best in the 20 mph range with no HVAC load, but that peak can rise to 40-45 in cases where you have a lot of HVAC draw.)�
Apr 13, 2016
chipmunk Interesting, thanks. I didn't mean to imply there was no efficiency penalty for higher power output. I still suspect there are significant differences between an EV and a hybrid when it comes to maximizing efficiency.�
Apr 13, 2016
Saghost Yup. But then again, there are differences in maximizing efficiency between different hybrids. Some techniques are much more applicable to some cars than others, depending on the details of both their system architecture and engine. (Most engines are most efficient at low-moderate RPMs and full throttle or just shy of full throttle if they have fuel enrichment. Some are not, like the lean-burn engine Honda had in first generation Insights, which was most efficient at about half throttle and ~4000 rpm.)
One of the interesting case studies for this is GM's factory programming for the first generation Volt, which uses three different strategies for various speed ranges - two of which involves cycling the engine on and off while driving at a constant speed (trading better engine BSFCs for more conversion losses going from mechanical to electrical to chemical (battery) and back through to mechanical.)
Although I'm certainly not an expert in the subject, for EVs with a fixed drive gear ratio most of the material I've seen suggests that a constant power "driving with load" strategy is likely to be the most efficient.
The idea of a cruise geared front motor and a power geared rear motor (or motors...) is very intriguing - from some early employee comments we thought for a while that's what Tesla had done with the D series cars, but only the PXXDs have different ratios, and those are only ~6% different (whereas a power/cruise combo would be more likely to be ~50% or so I'd guess from the few charts I've seen motor efficiencies.) At that point you'd have a lot more variables to play with in optimizing the car's efficiency - and using smaller motors would mean that by putting most of the load on one you could push cruising road load up close to the peak efficiency ranges (again, assuming most motor have curves like GM's with ~50% torque being optimal.)�
Apr 13, 2016
Twiglett This is an odd problem - being a Tesla for economy. If I wanted economy, my next car would not be a Tesla, they are performance vehicles that happen to be EVs because an EV makes an excellent performance vehicle.
Getting it for its economy is like buying a BMW 7 series or Merc S class and being worried about its economy and looking to enable stop/start and eco mode.
Give me POWERRRR
ECO mode belongs in crappy econobox gas powered hybrids�
Apr 13, 2016
kort677 or severely limited range EVs�
Apr 13, 2016
LaCostaRacer I have never used cruise control in my cars for these reasons- my brain does a better job processing the driving environment than the cruise control.
Seems like Tesla could do a better job in this regard by using the standard speed set point along with a +/- mph tolerance to handle hills- mostly going up them because regen helps going down. If I wanted a mild cruise I would go 65 mph +/- 10mph. If I wanted a more hyper-active drive I would increase the set speed and lower the tolerance to 3 mph.
I noticed the Tesla web site has a cool range calculator that shows your range based on speed, temperature, tires, and A/C on/off.�
Apr 13, 2016
brianman Drive I5 from Seatac to Seattle and you'll change your opinion. You can visualize the hills in the energy app clearly when you use cruise control for that route.�
Apr 14, 2016
navguy12 I appreciate your inputs into the discussion. I'm used to the pulse and glide technique, but your suggesting that may be counter productive in the case of a Tesla. It will be something to enjoy learning once I have my Model 3�
Apr 14, 2016
navguy12 It's not a problem at all. EM wants his Tesla EVs to be successful across the full spectrum of potential customers. Out of the 325,000 advanced reservation holders for Model 3, one must assume a segment will be interested in the performance envelope as it pertains to maximum range under various profiles.
When I took a 2016 Volt for a test drive, the ev range (at the start) showed 82 km available. After a town and country drive of 20 kms, the range stood at 67 km available. Lack of data points and repeatability limits any conclusions, but I suspect when I learn how to drive Model 3, I'll be able to improve on the stated ranges.
I also suspect a (probably small) cadre of fellow Tesla 3 owners will attempt the same.�
Apr 14, 2016
omgwtfbyobbq EVs are a lot more tolerant of lead-footing IME. If I'm looking for some extra EV range in the wife's pip, that's mostly a function of keeping the average speed down and trying to time lights. The only reason I use N coasting is b/c it's hard to coast. In hybrid mode, it's doing all that and trying to keep the engine operating efficiently as I accelerate (pulse) and then coast (glide).�
Apr 14, 2016
David99 Guys, hypermiling isn't only about saving a little energy. Knowing what techniques help to reduce energy usage and how much each does is helpful info. In any car you will get in a situation where you, due to unforeseen events, have to drive as efficient as possible to make it to the next charging station. We all have been there. So please don't automatically dismiss any questions about efficient driving.�
Apr 14, 2016
chipmunk We'll probably need to accept differing opinions. I'm familiar with that stretch of road. While I haven't driven it in an EV, I've driven up much steeper mountains. Yes, going up hills requires energy by definition (whether it comes from the battery, or from a loss in kinetic energy by scrubbing speed). In a Prius though, going up a hill with cruise control is much more dramatic as the car first loses speed, and then changes gearing and accelerator settings to catch up resulting in quite a bit of commotion. In the Tesla, speed stays constant as power is immediately applied and no gearing changes are even possible. That's what I meant. Yes, it uses extra energy to raise the elevation of the car.�
Apr 14, 2016
AnOutsider Plus, since we're talking cruise control here, I'm guessing this is mostly about long trips. On longer trips, range DOES matter. I have 2 use cases that come up often enough where I can't use my Model S without a charge stop. I may pull the trigger on a 100D when it comes out, or any model that can just about guarantee me 250miles on a charge in most weather conditions.
Until then, I try to drive economically and stop to charge if need be.�
Apr 14, 2016
BriansTesla I spent a lot of time hypermiling in an ICE car an 3 years in a Model S. I follow a few simple rules.
1. Don't go faster than you need to.
2. Use the brakes as little as is safe.
3. Coasting is more efficient than regen because of losses going through the system twice.
4. Crest hills as slowly as safety allows.
The above makes as much as 10% in my wh/mi.�
Apr 14, 2016
navguy12 That is the scenario I'll face with the Model 3 and a round trip to Toronto airport to drop off/pick up my wife when she travels.
It's 265 km round trip and the current stated rating is 243ish km. I'll contemplate a larger battery if that option is available and not cost prohibitive, but if employing techniques that satisfy a once every 60 day scenario without extra cost, then that is the way I'll go.�
Apr 14, 2016
navguy12 Those are techniques I employ as well.
Your point number 3 indicates, like the Prius, there is a sweet spot on the "gas" that experiance teaches will create a coasting situation. Good tip. Thanks�
Apr 14, 2016
brianman Again, drive the stretch I'm talking about in Model S. Do two passes. First pass, set cruise control to the speed limit and let the car manage speed. Second pass, set the cruise control 10 below the speed limit and manage the accelerator yourself to keep the vehicle at limit +/- 10mph. The efficiency of the latter is demonstrable better - I've done it many times in bad weather, when coming back from track events, etc. when "cutting it close". I wish the car would do this on its own (when requested via settings).�
Apr 14, 2016
roblab It's not automatic dissing. Hypermiling is to save energy, which saves range or gas. With a small battery, or a gas engine, it's probably good to hypermile, but with Tesla, it's just a whale of a lot easier to slow down a bit. Setting cruise 2 mph lower doesn't require worrying about hills, curves, whatever.
Hypermilers also take a half mile to a mile to get up to the speed limit less 5 mph. They are a pain in the butt. I pass them doing 90 and retrieve my wasted energy dropping back to the speed limit +5, with them a mile back.
My main question about hypermiling is, "Why?" There is no need. You don't need to hypermile to get to "the next charging station". Slow down. Hypermiling requires effort. Dropping your speed requires no effort. The tradeoff in a couple of watt hours just does not justify the strain. I drive my S for enjoyment, and I can easily see how many miles I will have left at the next SC. I have never arrived at my next charging place with no range (going on 100,000 miles), so we have not all been there.�
Apr 14, 2016
navguy12 Agreed. This is the reason why I included the term "mild" in the title of this thread.
My experience in my Prius (on highway 401 with a limit of 100 kph and other hilly freeways) is I never use cruise control. Aim to cruise at the legal limit, speed up to 120 kph downhill and let the speed bleed off to 95 kph uphill. As always, practice defensive driving by looking ahead to anticipate a situation and stay in the right lane except to pass. Headlights on at all times. The same techniques I used to apply driving the German autobahns back in the 80s.�
Apr 14, 2016
Twiglett Its not that which disturbs me about hypermiling. What really annoys me about hypermiling in traffic is that is forces all the normal drivers around the hyper miler to get dramatically worse mileage. So while hyper miler is feeling happy about saving a tiny amount of gas or an even less significant few watts, the planet gets to suffer way more emissions from all those trucks around them having to play stop/go/stop behind them or accelerate past the mobile chicane in the road.
So while it might be personally efficient driving, the net result for the environment is stupendously worse.
It is waaaay better to go with the flow and help the traffic flow smoothly so that everybody gets better mileage.
In it for the bigger picture here - and its not about one persons economy goals.�
Apr 14, 2016
Borgholio I agree completely. I actually used to be one of those jerks who would go 60 in a 70 zone just to save some gas. I would be in the slow lane, but I would still be passed by semi trucks and nearly everyone else. I realized I was causing more traffic and actually being a road hazard. I eventually decided that it's safer to keep up with the flow of traffic than to use excessive hypermiling. Now what I do is I cruise at 5 over the speed limit in the right lane. I'm not speeding so I still get reasonable fuel economy, but I'm going fast enough that I don't cause problems for other drivers. And if the slow lane is actually going slow...then that means I can save even more gas without feeling guilty about it.
It has become more about minimizing how often I brake or accelerate. The more steady I can make my speed, the better. Unless I'm trying to push it too much over 70, I really don't lose that much efficiency so I don't bother trying to save every little drop.�
Apr 14, 2016
sandpiper Says the person who's surrounded by superchargers. Not all of us are so fortunate.�
Apr 14, 2016
ilovemycoffee I find hypermiling difficult in my wife's Model S. I can't resist the urge to mash the pedal whenever I drive it. There is also that perverse knowledge that the car will charge faster at a Supercharger the less charge I have.�
Apr 14, 2016
kort677 [
and?�
Apr 14, 2016
Jim R I'm going to have to 'suck it up'! I drive a Mercedes E250 and typically get 1200+ kms per tank and then add 70 litres(18.49 gallons) to fill up. (Even consumer reports says the range is 800 miles). However, I'm up for the challenge!�
Apr 14, 2016
Woosie That's a really good point. I don't like to drive much over 70 anymore so I tend to drive I the right lane on the freeway. However I do speed up in early morning traffic because nearly everyone - including the trucks - drives fast at that time.�
Apr 14, 2016
HanSolo You make a great point. The bottom line is that we share the road and the last thing you want to is act like a dick to the other drivers. Everyone has places to be and causing serious disruptions to the flow of traffic as stated can be dangerous, and it can also cause a lot of drivers to waste fuel as they try to jockey for position to make a pass. Only texting idiots on the highways piss me off more than hypermilers who often are not in the right lane and cause traffic backups as everyone from minivan driving soccer moms late to pick up their kids to semis get stuck. Ironically, every Tesla I see on the highway is usually in the fast lane doing the passing as I do not seem to ever recall a Tesla slowing down the speed of traffic.�
Apr 19, 2016
Topher Those aren't hypermilers, those are slow people.
You, one the other hand, are an unsafe scofflaw. ... and incorrect about 'retrieving your wasted energy'.
Because driving is fun, and hypermiling is driving. And saving the planet. Sitting in cruise control is boring.
Thank you kindly.�
Apr 24, 2016
roblab Not wanting to argue, as you have a right to your opinion. And I agree, I am a scofflaw. When going down the freeway in a 65 mph zone, pretty much all the traffic is doing 80, so at least I have company, and generally the "law" doesn't bother anyone unless they are changing lanes and doing 100. But that's CA.
I have owned a half dozen priuses. During that phase of my life, I accelerated slowly, gently reduced speed going up hills, never passed anyone, drove under the speed limit, and got a kick out of it when my mpg went up a tenth of a mpg. I drove to Banff from Frisco, and round trip got 56 mpg. When I went to Britain, we rented a Prius and I got 72 mpg - they don't have the emission controls set as tight, I would guess.
When I owned a RAV4EV, if you didn't drive like a snail, you very likely weren't going to make it there and back, and there weren't any charging stations.
But, when we bought the Tesla, it was a new dawn. The car actually *could* pass someone. Range anxiety disappeared. There was no gas, so no mpg to even think about. I got solar which paid for itself in a half dozen years, so my "fuel" was free. Do I think I need to try to keep my energy usage at 275 Wh/mi? No. I don't care. But, for the record, it sits at about 312.
With the Prius, my wife was afraid to pass. Now she doesn't stand for creep cars and slow drivers. But we see no reason to "hypermile". It's not as fun as driving normal. It's not as fun as driving with TACC and keeping up with traffic. It's not as fun as using AP. Tesla is not anything like driving a Prius or a low range EV. It is way more fun than hypermiling, yet you still get ~90 mpg on free fuel.
So, obviously, it seems, you use gas, or have tiny range, and need to hypermile. Your car pollutes, and you want to save the planet. Yeah, I used to be that way, too.�
Apr 25, 2016
navguy12 Very informative reply. For my future situation (home, Toronto airport, and back), if battery upgrade is not an actual available option for Model 3, I'll have to learn all the Tesla driving tricks to avoid having to make a refuel stop. The supercharger network in my area is simply not yet a viable option.
Hopefully in 24ish months that will change.
I have no doubt that for my normal 59 days out of every 60 days, my need to be cognizant of energy economy will not exist�
Apr 25, 2016
ShotgunF15E I prefer to HyperSPEED my Tesla.
(My other car is a Prius, If I wanted to be laughed at, I'd drive that to work)�
Apr 26, 2016
navguy12 You are quite the comedian.�
Apr 26, 2016
MorrisonHiker The UK uses the imperial gallon which is 20% more than a US gallon. I think your 72 mpg in the UK would be about 57.2 mpg in the US.�
Apr 26, 2016
MorrisonHiker Looks like my math was slightly off. It would actually close to 60 mph US.�
Apr 27, 2016
Dan Detweiler [QUOTE
I noticed the Tesla web site has a cool range calculator that shows your range based on speed, temperature, tires, and A/C on/off.[/QUOTE]
I asked on another thread about the accuracy of this calculator. Can any Model S owners comment on this? I would like to know what actual drivers have seen.
Dan�
Apr 27, 2016
jerry33 I asked on another thread about the accuracy of this calculator. Can any Model S owners comment on this? I would like to know what actual drivers have seen.[/QUOTE]
It's as accurate as anything like this can be, but really, the trip graph is the best indicator because it's in real time. (Lifetime average 247 Wh/mi over 68K miles)�
Apr 27, 2016
Dan Detweiler [QUOTE
It's as accurate as anything like this can be, but really, the trip graph is the best indicator because it's in real time. (Lifetime average 247 Wh/mi over 68K miles)[/QUOTE]
Trip graph? I am ignorant, please enlighten me.
Dan�
Apr 30, 2016
SageBrush This thread has seemed to change to 'the joys of EV acceleration' of what I have read so I'll keep my comments about EV fuel economy on the highway brief:
- lower speeds encounter less aero resistance. That is not 'hypermiling,' that is driving slower
- Avoid situations that result in using the brakes. That is not 'hypermiling,' that is common sense
- ICE cars have a fairly narrow maximum efficiency mostly dictated by torque and speed. Hypermiling is keeping the engine in that range rather than a constant speed. It is possible with CC on flats but not hilly terrain.
�
Apr 30, 2016
LittleHobo 215 miles is about 346km. It doesn't seem like you'll have a problem even without a battery upgrade, or am I missing something?�
May 1, 2016
jerry33 That will be true when the car is new, but the larger battery will give a longer service life before it no longer is able to go the distance. Of course, it won't be a problem if you trade in frequently.�
May 1, 2016
navguy12 I was mistyping my round trip distance. My home to airport to home round trip distance is 365 km. The estimated 346km range will become an issue with any HVAC call for heat and the whole trip is on a 100 kph freeway. I have no issues with the 100 kph, it's the need for a strategy to get back home, 19 kms farther than the estimated EPA range.�
May 1, 2016
navguy12 I don't trade in frequently. I plan to own my M3 for 10 years as is typical with my vehicles in the past.
My first option will be the biggest battery upgrade I can get, followed by supercharger access. If the budget allows, then a cold weather package.�
May 1, 2016
LittleHobo Thanks. Could anyone point me to some Model S data on battery degradation? I'm curious what the real world experience has been.�
May 2, 2016
jerry33 As best I can tell, mine is between 3% and 5% for three years and 68K miles (103K km).�
May 2, 2016
navguy12 Thanks for that data point. All I hear from locals is how Tesla's batteries lose 50% after 5 years, but I can never quote a sane reply.
Do you do something special, such as only charge to 80% SOC, limit supercharger use to actual long range trips only, things like that. Thanks. Cheers�
May 2, 2016
dgpcolorado So that's why the cars with California plates go blasting past while most of the locals like me are chilling at around the speed limit and in no particular hurry. Now I know!
Hmm, there are hills and then there are HILLS, I guess:
�
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May 2, 2016
kort677 considering that the model S has only been around for 4 years with the majority of the cars out there being 3 years old or newer I am curious who gave you this erroneous info and what data it is based on.�
May 2, 2016
brianman Here's a sane reply:
1. For Roadsters, check with TomSax. I believe his data shows much less than 50% loss in 5 years.
2. For Model S, the oldest (customer) Model S is not even 4 years old yet. Your "locals" are premature in making assertions about the 5 year behavior for items that haven't been around for 5 years.
3. For Model X, the oldest (customer) Model X is not even 6 months old yet. Your "locals" are premature in making assertions about the 5 year behavior for items that haven't been around for 5 years.
4. For Model 3, no customers have taken delivery and won't for at least 15 months. Your "locals" are premature in making assertions about the 5 year behavior for items that don't even exist yet.
Hope this helps.�
May 2, 2016
SageBrush What route is this ? I thought Grand Junction is via Cortez but you are showing something different that perhaps goes through the San Juan Mts ?�
May 2, 2016
jerry33 I did 80% for a couple of years, and will still do 80% when it gets very hot (over 35 C) but doing 80% messes up the balance, so I do 90% now (and have gained a few miles back). It would be out of the way to use an SC locally so I don't do that--even if there was one at the end of the block I wouldn't because it's so much more convenient to plug in at home. About 50% of my miles are vacation or other trips, so I do see plenty of SC use. If you check the what's your 90 thread, you'll see that I'm not alone and there appear to be several who are doing better than I am.
To answer the "50% after 5 years" question, I think they have the Tesla mixed up with the Leaf.�
May 2, 2016
navguy12 I live in an area where global warming is viewed as a left wing conspiracy�
May 2, 2016
navguy12 Much thanks. As stated to another chap, I live in an area that is not noted for progressive views on the environment, etc.....�
May 2, 2016
navguy12 Thanks. I think your right about the Leaf versus Tesla.....the other rant I get is "Insure yourself against car fires". I guess Rome wasn't built in a day.�
May 2, 2016
jerry33 Ditto. It's like I live on another planet.�
May 2, 2016
kort677 isn't it?�
May 2, 2016
HanSolo I am curious whether that kid who started up some company that shuttles people from LA to LV(Tesla Loop maybe?) might have some data. That stretch of highway can get extremely hot and I would assume that a Tesla being used like that will be seeing all supercharger use. I am curious what kind of battery degradation that might see considering the usage.�
May 2, 2016
dgpcolorado San Juan Mountains it is: I live in scenic Ouray County. That elevation plot was for the route from the Farmington NM Supercharger Station to my house. The passes on that route are Coal Bank, Molas, and Red Mountain. The latter pass is the south boundary line of my county:
^US 550, the "Million Dollar Highway."
^My car on the county road I use to get to my house.�
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May 2, 2016
SageBrush I see these mountains from the SW�
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