Mar 2, 2015
Griffinlair keep it in sport mode and it'll probably feel like yours.�
Mar 2, 2015
danp @breser I would LOVE to hear your impressions of how the P85D accelerates (in sport mode) and handles compared to your 85D. My P85D is production complete, but am regretting not waiting until I could have test driven both, because I strongly suspect I would have ended up with the 85D and saved myself 20K. I'm actually considering walking away from the PD and re-ordering the 85D, now that the new seats are available for the latter.�
Mar 2, 2015
Cyclone Remember to turn off Range Mode if it still has .167 installed on it!(context = P85D Lost power on road, "Pull over safely")
�
Mar 2, 2015
breser It has .140 on it. Looked on the way home with it.
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Doubtful, according to this testing insane is 0-60 in 3.17 and sport is 0-60 in 4.04. The 85D is listed as 0-60 in 5.2 and the P85D is listed at 3.2. So it's still going to be about a second faster.�
Mar 2, 2015
Griffinlair Ok, maybe you just have to stick a brick behind the accelerator pedal. Lol.�
Mar 2, 2015
Nevek The gods of fate are playing with you.
I'm really interested in comparisons, as I have an 85D on order and was tempted by the P85D as well. Rationally, the 85D is the "sweet spot", with the greatest range, all wheel security, and very good acceleration with a mid level price tag. But tell that to your inner 4 year old.
I know the 0-60 times, but am curious about 0-30 or so. I assume the P should pile on the Gs immediately, but am very interested in real world experience and particularly "seat of the pants" comparison.�
Mar 2, 2015
breser Got my car back. I'll talk about the charging issue on the thread specifically on that over in the battery and charging sub-forum. They got the rear seat click noise gone. In fact they really went above and beyond by putting some tape on the new rear console latch to stop it from making any noise. Before I had taken it in it had developed a very bad rattle in the pano roof. They found some insulating tape had come loose and adjust a tab on the roof and that took care of that. The rattle I thought was coming from dash was found and resolved. However, when I went to pick it up and took a road test with them we found that there was another rattle that was contributing to the noise but neither myself nor the tech that rode with me could figure out where it was coming from. But decided we'd leave that for some future visit, probably when I rotate tires at 5k miles. After I drove away we went around the block and I realized it was coming from the headliner. Pushed in on it and it mostly went away, though it still slightly comes back. But at least I know where it comes from and it should be easy to resolve for sure.
I'll start a new thread with comparisons between the 85D and the P85D so as not to clutter this thread with that.�
Mar 5, 2015
breser This is on for Saturday now. I'd really like to use Visible Tesla to track data but the current released version doesn't work for me and for some reason I can't get it to build properly (maybe I'll get this figured out tomorrow). So we may have to just deal with noting the numbers the car displays. We're going to try and make things as equal as possible between the two cars, but there are going to be some differences we can't account for.�
Mar 5, 2015
vvanders After having spent > 24hr with our new S85D I agree with almost all breser has shared.
Honestly given my experience so far I don't know if I'd ever go with a P85D. The S85D has no shortage of acceleration and I'm looking forward to the added range(I'll be doing my first long run stretch on Monday). The added cost plus range reduction doesn't seem that attractive to me now, although that could just be buyer's justification.
Overall just an incredibly well rounded car, impressive on all fronts.�
Mar 6, 2015
googlepeakoil
I'd add that charging slower:
less or zero energy drawn to cool the charger = less vampire loss. Let it charge to finish charging just before you go to work.
lithium batteries prefer to be kept at a state of charge around the mid point - not full, not empty (and not hot, not cold - room temperature.
So keeping the charge below 80% is better... ramping it to 80, 90 or 100% as fast as possible is going to be worse long term.
Better to charge when at 30% (not at 65 or 75%) stop charging at 80%, and charge it slowly to 80%. ie dont charge it after doing a 20-100mile run if you know the next day you dont need >70 miles. Of course you never know what tomorrow holds so your thoughts on that may vary.
There's lots of graphs online about battery life at various temperatures for lithium batteries... no lithium chemistry likes hot, or full / empty capacity.�
Mar 6, 2015
Bill r Trip from seattle to tucson in 85d
odometer town miles energy used/miles
17 seattle 0
101 centralia 81 125
232 woodburn 131 143
311 springfield 79 89
451 grants pass 140 147
570 mt shasta 119 131
679 corning 100 109
858 manteca 179 200
957 harris ranch 129 140
1105 tejon ranch 118 133
1280 cabazon 175 197
1429 quartzite 159 205
1572 gila bend 143 170
1643 casa grande 71 111
1700 tucson 59 79
averaged about 50 miles per hr includes stops to recharge.
Drove 5 to 10 miles over the speed limit
car handles great thru the mountain areas
adaptive cruise control is good most of the time. The only frustration is once it is on you can not increase your speed until the vehicle in front of you moves completly out of your lane. That will cause some frustration for you and the people behind you who are breathing down your neck i had the adaptive cruise control set at 5 lengths. Next time i will try 3 lengths. The only other solution is to turn the cruise control off.
Once the vehicle in front of you is completly out of your lane the cruise control move your car out very quickly.
The 85 d is a great car and i feel it's better than the 85p and just as quick so enjoy�
Mar 6, 2015
RAW84 Well, you can certainly adjust from 1 to 7 whilst TACC is engaged which will allow you to speed up momentarily to close that gap some...but it won't tailgate. I can't imagine you'd want it to.
I've found that if someone's tailgating you, however, closing the gap does nothing but create a the car tailgating situation. Best to just maintain your following distance and let the anxious driver pass.�
Mar 6, 2015
breser Well I managed to get VisibleTesla built and it's working. So I'll at least have my VisibleTesla working to collect data from my car during the trip.�
Mar 7, 2015
breser Trip complete, data and thoughts posted here:
Real World Comparison of a S85 to an 85D Efficiency�
Mar 8, 2015
eco5280 I really do love this car. For no reason at all we just turned a 60 mile trip into a 200 mile trip today. Just kept turning onto different highways to extend the drive. Loving TACC too.�
Mar 9, 2015
cmu5p I happened upon this thread on a 6hr train ride from VA to NYC with three kids (7,7 and 9) and grumpy husband (40) and was thoroughly entertained. I read all 14 pages. Breser, you're my hero.
Awaiting my S85 delivery on April 17, that I am hoping my delivery concierge will let me switch out to an 85D. I'd pay extra for anime yellow.�
Mar 10, 2015
dsm363 Mod note: post about service plans moved here
Official: Model S Service Plans�
Mar 17, 2015
dirkhh I realize that I posted this picture in the wrong thread... I happened to run into breser at the Centralia supercharger on Sunday...
�
Mar 17, 2015
eco5280 Nice! Looks like that's the new grey huh? Has a nice green hue to it under that light.�
Mar 17, 2015
dirkhh It's just the glare from the charging ring...�
Mar 17, 2015
breser You might want to take off the green tinted glasses you're wearing for Saint Patrick's day.�
Mar 17, 2015
Andyw2100 I was going to ask dirkh if he intentionally waited until St. Patrick's Day to post the picture.�
Mar 17, 2015
JakeP Sweet! Good old Sequoia Green. I was just admiring mine as I buffed her up with Speed Shine. I hope that color makes a glorious return someday.�
Mar 17, 2015
ModelX Beautiful!�
Mar 18, 2015
breser My car is now a month old (actually 28 days but February 18th - March 18th counts as a month in my book). We've got a little over 3k miles on the car now. Still happy. Still have the click in the back seat but I'm trying to put up with it till I get to 5k and need to get the tires rotated. The HPWC 79A issue is apparently going to be solved by a software update. The other rattle in the headliner hasn't been happening lately, maybe it's just totally gone. Only other thing I've noticed is that the car seems louder in the last week or so. The front motor noise is less of a very quiet sound and more of a whine.�
Mar 18, 2015
Ames I have previously driven a P85+ in Switzerland and a P85 in Vegas. A couple of weeks I was lucky enough to experience an extended test of an S85D in Portland OR.
The car was pearl white with black 21", black leather seats, executive rear seats, extended nappa leather, black alcantara headliner, and glossy wood trim. The combination was not a choice I was considering but it was absolutely gorgeous inside and out. My wife was also very impressed with the visual appeal of the car and the beautiful, crisp, and well thought out screens. She loved the yacht floor and immediately remarked on how useful it was to store her handbag. The car felt very well made, no rattles or squeaks (the brand new Volvo XC 60 rental I drove to the event squeaked and rattled all the way there). The suspension was firm but very well damped; more harsh than I expected. The car felt very European to drive and the handling was truly excellent; very confidence inspiring.
During the test drive I tried hard to focus on the pure driving characteristics of the car and ignore all the technology. I am very sensitive to sound and I could immediately make out the front motor whine. It is a very subtle sound very much like the high frequency noise you hear in jet engine. The sound was noticeable from about 10 to 60 mph, provided the stereo was off and ac blower on low. I didn't find it to be performance related as it was noticeable during gentle acceleration/regeneration. You could argue that it sounds cool. My wife also noticed the sound from the back seat and commented later that the car was "supposed to be silent." From a performance perspective I was mildly impressed with the S85D with a launch from 0 and with how long it kept pushing. Not a hint of tire slip or TC action - impressive and in excess of every day needs. I love the instant torque response to throttle inputs when on the move.
If the only difference between and S85D and S85 in day to day driving is the front motor whine, then I would opt out if I didn't really need AWD. I wonder if the S85's have the same suspension setup or handle as well? I think there are people that would still opt for the P85 especially if it benefits from all the iterative improvements and suspension enhancements.
I have yet to try the P85D, I'll save that for a time when I am able to actually purchase one of these beauties where I live.�
Mar 18, 2015
breser I can say without a doubt that the S85D handling is much better than the S85. I don't think there's a lot of suspension difference, but I think it all pretty much comes down to AWD. I'd still buy the car despite the extra noise. The S85 had it's own noises and personally I found them more annoying.�
Mar 18, 2015
Ames Hi Ben,
Can you describe the S85 noises and what makes them annoying? Could you also post a picture of your interior? I haven't seen a high quality picture of grey / piano black and black Alcantara headliner.
Thanks.
Alex�
Mar 18, 2015
breser The balloon noise that many people have described before. Not every car has it, but my S85 built in September 2014 did. Tesla considers this normal.
This picture is in my already posted pictures:
http://i.imgur.com/bEhMQDx.jpg�
Mar 18, 2015
vvanders I don't find the front motor noise to be distracting. Sounds similar to a jet turbine when spooling up.
It does get a bit louder under accel though but hard to hear if you have either AC or radio going.
FWIW I've got a rattle in the front if the pano roof. I've been told that its something they can take care of when I get a chance to swing by the SC.�
Mar 18, 2015
Ames Was that balloon noise present all the time? That would have driven me nuts. I understood it was only under hard acceleration (agreed still annoying).
Thanks, I saw that picture. Very classy btw, but it was missing the dash...pan left! pan left!
Thanks once again for all your informative posts.�
Mar 18, 2015
dirkhh My D has definitely more of a noticeable turbine noise than my 60 did. And it seems to choke from the front. I don't perceive it as unpleasant, though�
Mar 19, 2015
breser Yeah balloon noise was just under acceleration. The front motor on my car started out only making a very slight noise under acceleration and now makes a slightly louder noise whenever going at any slower speed. Music/Radio can easily cover this up. It's not an annoying sound in my opinion though.
This help?
�
Mar 19, 2015
dirkhh Oh look, another picture carefully not showing the outside of the car... still trying, breser, after my post?�
Mar 19, 2015
eco5280 You can easily see the color reflecting off his mirrored house trim.�
Mar 19, 2015
dirkhh :snort:�
Mar 19, 2015
Andyw2100 Perhaps he's just "still sticking to the agreement he made with Tesla."�
Mar 19, 2015
breser Winner winner chicken dinner.�
Mar 19, 2015
Gunjanov Thanks for this very well write-up..i've tested also a P85D and ordered a 85D, same as you i cant justify the amount of money nvolved in this insane mode.�
Mar 19, 2015
dirkhh That makes no sense. The truth is out. There is no need to hide anymore.
Or I can start stalking you on TMC and respond to every post you make with "BTW, your car is green"
�
Mar 19, 2015
breser The exterior color wasn't important in that photo at all. I really am trying to not rub it in to everyone's face. I know there are owners here who had 85D orders in canceled colors. I remember what it felt like to have just missed out on the autopilot hardware. I remember how it felt reading the posts of the people who were on the other side of that situation. Unnecessarily pointing out the color every chance I got would be rubbing it in.
I haven't gone back and asked Tesla about the situation, but I'm sure they'd still ask me to continue to be discrete about the situation. I'm pretty sure the reason they asked me to be discrete is to avoid upsetting people who didn't get to keep their color. I'm positive some of those people still haven't gotten their cars yet, so it still seems too early for me to be posting the color without concern for their feelings.
I can't deny that I'm glad you posted the picture. I'd hope it means that everyone has all the proof they need and people don't need to look for clues in everything I post. I love my car and I'd love to just be able to post pictures of it to everyone. I'm sure as more time goes back I'll loosen up about this. But for the time being I'm not going to post the information publicly.�
Mar 19, 2015
eco5280 Hmm - three paragraphs. Third letter is C. So we're talking about the Color. I'll do more research and see what my cryptology forum can discern from the rest of the post. I'm thinking there's at least two types of cipher going on in that signature alone.�
Mar 19, 2015
Ames I love it, thanks. Perfect combo and I love the way it makes for a 2 tone interior (as opposed to a 3 or 4 tone). It is nice to see the details look good. I have seen some awful stitching in other pics and I didn't care for the weird piping or alcantara inserts in earlier cars.
- - - Updated - - -
Lol, oh I think you have already crossed that line. If Ben wasn't so obliging with his interior shots I was thinking maybe you could help...�
Mar 20, 2015
caps04 Breser: How much Daily charge do you get? I got my 85D a week ago and it went up to 244 if I recall right. Then 242 a couple of days ago. And now it doesn't go past 240.
Is that usual?�
Mar 20, 2015
dirkhh I think all the Model S do that. My 60 did after every firmware update. And my P85D is doing the same, just in the other direction... started at 227, then 228, now 230.�
Mar 20, 2015
breser Answer depends on if you're in range mode or not. Range mode is 245. No Range mode is 242. What I think is probably getting you is vampire drain. If you charge in the evening by morning you'll have lost a few miles. It's not uncommon for me to come out to 239 or 240 when range mode isn't on.�
Apr 23, 2015
breser Well here's the 6k mile update. Had the tires rotated yesterday and had them look into my seat click. Once again they didn't get it. Wouldn't do it while we drove around but it was there on the way home. I've also since noticed that the gear stalk doesn't light up. Pretty certain my S85 did even though it also had the new stalks. Service center says the new ones don't light up. Otherwise no other problems.�
Apr 23, 2015
gg_got_a_tesla Pretty sure it was in either the 6.1 or the 6.2 release notes that this is indeed the case now. I think it was whenever TACC was enabled.�
Apr 23, 2015
breser I'm not talking about the cruise control on/off light (which was in the notes). I'm talking about the window with the info on what the different motions do on the gear selector.�
Apr 23, 2015
gg_got_a_tesla Ach... sorry. Didn't notice it either way so far.�
Apr 25, 2015
Andyw2100 I'm 90% sure I recall someone talking about a change in the behavior of that as well with a recent update. The other 10% is that it was you talking about it, so take that for what it's worth. But if you have never mentioned this before, someone else has.
Edit: Found it!
Bugs in firmware 6.2 - Page 4
�
Apr 25, 2015
breser Thanks. The service center of course told me that they weren't designed to light up and did so based on examining another car. But it sounds like this may be a software bug.�
May 25, 2015
breser I'll hit 10k miles tomorrow morning on my way into work. Wow that sure did go fast.
Several other minor nits that I've noticed.
The rubber gasket at the bottom of the rear door jamb on the driver's side is coming loose. Looks like there's glue on the rubber but it didn't adhere to the car.
I've got a clip attached to some elastic that's loose under my passengers front seat. I've tried to put it back on but I must not be finding the right spot.
There are some rubber covers that go over some bolts that stick out on the hatch around the tail lights. I've had two of them go missing. Not really their fault but I'll probably see if they have some they can give me.
Still have my clicking back seat. But as I've mentioned elsewhere I want to try and do more work to isolate it before I ask them to fix it again because I don't think we're getting the right thing. It has become harder to reproduce/hear so we have made some progress on that.
Nothing really significant or functional.�
May 25, 2015
vvanders Yikes, I only crossed 7k so you're putting a lot more miles on it than I am.
What's your Wh/mi? I'm sitting right at 319 lifetime right now.�
May 25, 2015
breser 336 Wh/mile and falling (I drove without range mode on a lot initially). But I drive in and out of the Snoqualmie Valley roughly every day. Those climbs push my lifetime Wh/mile higher.�
May 25, 2015
vvanders That makes sense, I make a regular commute to Seattle from Portland which a large chunk is 70mph which really eats into it as well. It's amazing to see it drop during rush-hour though, I think I made it through Tacoma with 159 Wh/mi once.�
May 25, 2015
breser Yeah about a third of my commute is 70 which also doesn't help. I'm not so sure that you're putting fewer miles than me though. I'm not sure when you got your car but as you can see from my signature I've had mine since February 18th.�
May 25, 2015
vvanders We weren't far behind, switched our order during the D announcement and took delivery early March.�
May 26, 2015
chriSharek We have a 2011 Volt - been charging with the pathetic 3.3 KW charger at 15 amps for the past 4 years. We have yet to see any degradation of the battery - 70,000 miles and 84% on electric.
I don't want to pick sides here, but being an engineer, it seems prudent to charge slower (I.E. cooler) if you have the time. I just ordered my MS this past weekend. We're installing the HPWC but using a 50 amp breaker/40 amp service since I'll only have a single charger on the car. To me (and for my commute and driving habits), it doesn't make any sense to get the dual chargers and charge at the higher rate. I'm getting the 85D also, and at the 29 miles/hour rate of charge that'll charge in 9 hours "empty" to full on the 40 amps. Why would I need it any quicker than that, since i need to sleep?
Further, if time of use power rates are available, I'd like to program my MS to come on to take advantage of the lower rates off peak - for most of those times that I had barely dented the battery's capacity the day before.�
May 26, 2015
eco5280 I think battery degradation has a lot more to do with deep cycling than fast charging. Don't let the state of charge drop more than you have to. Plus I don't fully charge the battery, so it's always in the 'sweet spot' for long life. Of course some people need the full range frequently.�
May 26, 2015
chriSharek I agree with you completely as well. GM doesn't even let Volt owners charge higher than the 85% or below the 15%. At least Tesla is allowing their owners to be prudent in managing their own battery!�
May 26, 2015
breser Rather this thread not get turned back into the long debate about how to charge the battery. There really are better threads for that.
But this is what I will say. If you go look at the big degradation thread in the Battery and Charging forum you'll see that people who have followed the convention wisdom haven't all avoided battery degradation and people who haven't aren't all looking at poor batteries. There are so many factors that I doubt we can really control it much.
In my particular case I have a 70 mile round trip commute and I don't have time of use rates. So I want full 19.2 kW charging and I plug in when I get home. Sometimes we go out to see friends and can easily do ~150 mile round trips in the evening. Without charging that puts us further into the battery than I really want to be for traveling without careful plans. So I leave it at 80A and plug in when I get home. Come what may.�
May 26, 2015
Drucifer For the reasons you explain, I charge daily to 70%, using the SPX Voltec charger that my Volt used (L2 @ 16 amps), and I just installed a NEMA 14-50 as insurance so I can use my UMC if the Voltec craps out for some reason. And I have the dual charger. Nothing wrong with a little slower IMHO.
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Actually the Volt range is no higher than 88% or below 23%�
Aug 7, 2015
breser I'm almost to 18k miles, probably will hit it sometime this weekend. Had the first "annual service" around 17k miles a while back and I figure now is a good time to post about how it's going.
Tesla took care of all my issues during the service, including replacing the windshield that got hit by a rock. Gasket in the door is now properly secured to the car, rubber cover missing over the tail light bolt was replaced (I actually found the other one in my trunk and replaced it). Back seat click went away on its own for the most part, but occasionally it comes back, I think their theory that it's a seat belt is accurate now. They worked on my passenger seat, during the ride with the shop foreman (who remembers me and my car, which I find amazing considering how many cars they must see) noticed it wasn't down tight and would creek as he moved in the seat and replaced the clip on the bottom of the seat. They fixed all the rattles that I had, car is nearly silent now except for some very occasional creaks and wind noise. I'd say that everything has settled down and the car is now in great shape.
I'm super happy with the car. Can't wait for auto steering update.
Ohh and 319 Wh/mile lifetime.�
Aug 8, 2015
Niclas Test drove the 85D and was a bit disappointed with the acceleration vs my P85+. 85D is slower and not as sporty.
If I were to order a new car today it would have to be the P90D.�
Aug 8, 2015
pedriscoll I have had my 85D for 6 weeks and 2800 miles. I absolutely love it. No problems of any sort to date. I have taken it on 2 short road trips to Chicago and Louisville. It is great on the interstate or city streets. I have never owned any kind of high performance car before, so the speed and instant acceleration totally blow me away. I do an occasional launch and it is so fast I think the P85D would scare me to death. Knowing I can beat virtually anyone off the line and pass anyone on the highway at will has changed my driving style and earned me my first speeding ticket in a decade. I really like the TACC. My commute is 25 miles each way, mainly on freeways and I have the TACC on 90% of the time. It reacts faster than I do normally. Can't wait like everyone else for auto steering!
Teslas are still somewhat rare in Indianapolis so I have people asking me about it all the time. Just today a worker at the car wash complimented it and the counter woman at a local pizza place asked me all about it. Turns out she is a Tesla stockholder who is eagerly awaiting the model 3. At the same stop a neighboring sports bar owner came out of the bar to ask about it. I love to be an ambassador for the car.
I enjoy myself every time I slip in behind the wheel.�
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