Thứ Tư, 4 tháng 1, 2017

Open Center Console part 1

  • Mar 17, 2012
    NigelM
    Product Manager Ted Merendino said that the open center console will be sort of a Tesla signature. While that's kind of interesting, GeorgeB said that there will be some accessory option down the line.

    Having checked in both our existing cars, here's a short summary of some of the "stuff" that needs a home in our cars:

    • Wallet
    • Sunglasses
    • House Keys
    • Change
    • Hand Sanitizer
    • Phone
    • Pen
    • Mints
    • Dry Cleaning Tickets
    • Tissues
    • ...

    So, let's tell Tesla whether we need an open console or not. Guess what my vote is! :wink:
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    mikevbf
    With the performance version that accesory option will be neccsary to not have all that above stuff fly to the back seat :eek:
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    NigelM
    I think I can guess which way most Roadster owners will vote...:wink:
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    Steph
    Tesla will play the Apple playbook until the end... They are keeping some cool details til the end.

    The center console will probably be spectacular, I'm not expecting anything less from Tesla ;)
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    dsm363
    Just give me an modular iPhone dock when I can hop in and plug the iPhone in to charge and play music and I'll be happy. It should support other phones too by buying different docks that slide in place from Tesla or other companies.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    Tommy
    I think most folks would agree with your list and probably have more items that need a place to be stored. I prefer to store my "stuff" out of sight but readily accessible. I have a front wheel drive car (Lexus 350RX) that has both an open center console for the large purse and an enclosed console within the center to accommodate not only the cup holders but also all the "stuff" in an enclosed storage bin. Both concepts (open center console/enclosed storage space) can be implemented without compromise to either.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    EV_de
    No way to to get through with that !

    for a car with "no compromises" i have to accecpt at least a hand full .... till now ..
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    onlinespending
    Umm..that would go against everything they've said up until now. Even this weekend they've claimed that the look of the interior is virtually finalized. So don't get your hopes up. Though given the early results of this poll, Tesla would be silly to ignore them and not try and do something before production.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    bonnie
    Business opportunity for someone :). Get on it!

    Would be cool to be able to pick different pieces that fit in the console area and 'design your own' to perfectly fit YOUR needs.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    StephRob
    [*]Wallet
    [*]Sunglasses
    [*]House Keys
    [*]Change
    [*]Hand Sanitizer
    [*]Phone
    [*]Pen
    [*]Mints
    [*]Dry Cleaning Tickets
    [*]Tissues
    [*]...

    I carry all those things too, but I already have them in a handy container called a purse! And now I'll actually have a place to put it! We're very underrepresented on this forum, but I've got to speak up for the purse-carrying gender.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    dsm363
    Is there any indication that the bottom of the empty console area has a data or power connection to the car? That way any accessory with a phone adapter could power the phone.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    aviators99
    I like anything that accentuates the fact that there's no transmission, so I like the open console. I *would* like a sunglasses holder in the dash, though.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    bonnie
    Yep. I voted 'don't much care'. What I DO care about is the performance. This carfuffle over the open console is confusing me.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    mikevbf
    That's too radical. I like gear shifts. Maybe they should leave it empty so I can put in a dummy shifter there just for security's sake.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    Charged_Up
    I don't have the hand sanitizer, but pretty much think I have everything else plus a logbook for business expense, a power cord for my phone, and a temp holding place for trash (back of door pocket). This issue is really irking me to no end. George B's hints notwithstanding, I want to know what they have or what they are planning. It really is a practical issue and it is a choice for form over function which makes the designers happy and the average buyer scratching his head and then bitching after he buys the car and realizes that there's a significant flaw in really using the car the way that most do.

    First let me say that I love the idea of going electric - its good for the country in terms of economics and national security, its good for the environment, its a fun drive if its anything like the Roadster, and someone has to start the ball rolling. I'm in a fortunate position in that I can afford an expensive car - I can even afford to do something totally uneconomic - but where I live, my Signature will cost approximately $105,000 - or 98k net of tax credit. I could save a few thousand by getting essentially the same configuration under general production, but it's still, for all practical purposes, a $100k vehicle. For that price - which certainly takes on anything BMW or Merc can offer (except 7 series or s class), I don't expect much in the way of compromises, but it sure looks like there are a bunch for the early reservation holders - not to mention the lack of communication with reservation holders (especially early ones). I don't think I've been contacted or asked my opinion about anything by Tesla unless I made it a point to contact them to voice a concern, which I've done regarding the premium price for early sig reservers (still today with no apparent benefit for being early with a 40k deposit), the console issue, and the recent statement that test drives may not be available until after you must commit to a contract. What really bothers me is that I have backed off discussing the benefits of electric and the company with well-heeled friends as who wants to tout "as good as a BMW high end" if it's not? We all love the exterior, but its the interior that's pulling the negative vibe to the forefront.

    I'm truly rooting for Tesla to succeed, and if it takes a little more time to make things right I can be patient. But I can't emphasize enough how damaging it will be to the company if it falls short on its "no compromise" ethos in offering a high priced alternative to ICE luxury vehicles that doesn't deliver a similar feeling in the interior.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    jkirkebo
    Hmm. My take:

    Wallet - in my jacket pocket. Might need a place to put it in summer. Will probably end up in cup holder.
    Sunglasses - glove box
    House keys - in pocket
    Change - not needed in car. What would I use it for ?
    Hand sanitizer - glove box
    Phone - Yep. Need a place to put it. Will probably end up in cup holder along with wallet.
    Pen - glove box
    Mints - nope.
    Dry cleaning tickets - nope.
    Tissues - glove box

    I do need an additional item, a reflective vest (mandatory here). Will end up in glove box.

    What I would really like is a mini fridge for water&coke bottles. I would actually want it to be heated in winter so the water would never freeze but always be cold. Space for 4-6 0.5l bottles would be nice. I'd then fill up with cheap bottles from the super market, rather than paying for expensive bottles at gas stations.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    tomanik
    So Tesla just needs provide a purse to anyone without that buys a Model S :frown:

    The interior design sessions by the Tesla team must have been very interesting given how they have approached the interior and seemingly depriortizied so many normal user scenarios and tasks. Seems like there would have been so many other ways to approach the center console, however this is it for now, negative space.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    vfx
    This.
    If there is power then there could be an insert with a cup warmer or refrigerator, plug an charge multiple passenger phones, worklight, laptop or other things to do if running a business out of a car (not distract from driving)
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    onlinespending
    Well, a car is more than performance. At this price point, the total package matters. And the interior is a big part of that. It's clear by this poll that an overwhelming majority of people are not entirely pleased by the uninspiring use of all that free space between the front seats. They could have done so much more but essentially put two rails down the middle and called it a day. For those that like an open space, they could have compartmentalized the section closest to the center arm-rests and kept the portion directly under the dash open. There's a lot to love about the Model S, but this I'm afraid is not one of them.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    Thumper
    I agree with Bonnie. The more I think about it the better I like the open console. If you want a closed storage, get a tasteful padded box. For open storage, drawer organizers could be used to keep things from scooting around. No one solution is really right for everyone and this allows customization. It will be very nice for my wife to have a place for her purse besides in her lap or under foot. Aside from storage issues, the open feel is really nice. Many new car center stacks are becoming gigantic in both height and width. They feel claustrophobic and isolate the front passengers. It is interesting that although we are willing to adopt an innovative drive train, many of us are loath to try something new in other ways.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    ckessel
    The drive train is a technological advance. The factors of human ergonomics are incredibly well studied and not particularly technological in nature, tinker with them with a large measure of humility...
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    Tommy
    +1

    You have summed up very nicely exactly how I feel, though my price point is lower being general production.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    bonnie
    I'm willing to bet that either Tesla or someplace like Al & Eds will offer after- market customization. No reason not to do so. Look at all the after-market vendors for ICE vehicles.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    onlinespending
    What would you use change for? Tolls and parking meters come to mind. And there's simply times when are left with a lot of change after a purchase and don't like carrying around a pocket full of coins so end up placing it somewhere in your car.

    And why wouldn't you just keep your wallet and phone in your pants/shorts pocket like most people?
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    dsm363
    Developing a slip in insert that uses the walls of this space for support would be simple. This way the people who like it open can have it that way and leave it, those that don't can buy the aftermarket accessories.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    Beavis
    • Wallet
    • Sunglasses
    • House Keys
    • Change
    • Hand Sanitizer
    • Phone
    • Pen
    • Mints
    • Dry Cleaning Tickets
    • Tissues
    • ...

      My take:
      Wallet goes in my pocket
      Sunglasses go on my face
      House keys go in my pocket
      Change? I don't have any
      Hand sanitizer....see "Change"
      Phone should have a dock somewhere. I'll concede that one.
      Pen is in the glove box
      Mints can go in the glove box
      Dry cleaners pick up and drop off at the house
      Tissues are for sissies. Real men roll down the window and farmer blow at the ICE next to them.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    bonnie
    Disagree. Respectfully. As of this post, 24 people have voted, 16 said they don't want an open console. That's not enough data to be statistically significant.

    And the key point is NO ONE is saying you cannot have a way to keep things organized. This isn't a case of when you take delivery, you. are stuck forever in time with an open console. There will be options, just maybe not on the day you take delivery.

    And some of us, about 51% of the population (but not equally represented here) are actually happy with the fact that we have a place to put our purse. Not on our feet, not behind the driver's seat. But in its own spot. Yay.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    Discoducky
    I've gotten along without a center console with my MINI Cooper 03 for nearly 10 years without issue. I'm fine having open space. Model S will sure be an improvement for carrying around my golf clubs though!

    My wifes car, HCHII 07 has a center console which is full of "stuff" that is mostly clutter. And like the MINI has 4 door compartments for more clutter/trash. However, also has sleeves behind each seat for more clutter. All of which, including the cup holders are very hard to clean. It makes me crazy to see it so dirty and have so many places to clean. Take a look at yours and you'll see what I mean.

    We made a list of all the stuff in the daily driver (*clutter*):

    Glove box: Flashlight (Headlamp), napkins, bandaids, leatherman, tire pressure gauge, sunblock, car manual/paperwork, pen/pad
    Compartment under armrest: *coupons, *receipts, hand lotion, hand sanitizer, hair ties, *golf tees, *safety pins, DC/USB charger, *coins
    Center console (under the dashboard and in front of the gear shifter): *More coupons, glasses, phone, *more coins
    Cubby hole (on driver side dash underneath vent): Keys
    On rear floor (right behind armrest): Facial tissue box, baby wipes, diapers
    4 door compartments: *Trash and cliff bars (should be in trunk)
    2 behind seats compartments: *One lone childs glove (hey, we've been looking for this for about a month!)

    What bothers me about our current car:

    1. Very hard to clean all those spots
    2. I don't get any value out of having those compartments as it just makes me feel like I'm sitting in a garbage can
    3. Stuff is constantly moving and shifting causing noises while the car is moving
    4. We lose stuff all the time in the car. I can't tell you how many times I've searched with a flashlight through those freakin compartments
    5. The trash in the door compartments bothers me the most as it builds up overtime.

    Nirvana I hope to achieve with our next car (Model S):

    1. Overall, more open space, less compartments but are more centrally located, easier to keep clean, more thoughtful storage solutions
    2. Only keep and have places for items that are necessities
    3. And those items do not shift or move and cause noise or damage to themselves or the car
    4. The compartments are easy to clean, vacuum so that they can easily be brought back to a like new state
    5. All items that are necessary to reach while driving are ergonomically stored and can be extracted intuitively and quickly so that you don't have to take your eyes off of the road or are distracted in any way
    6. A place for trash that accommodates a liner, is on the floor, is secure but removable and could accommodate being closed (lid or other)
    7. A place for my wife to put her purse (see #5) that is on the floor and keeps it stationary and upright

    From what I've seen so far I don't think we'll have an issue since I could easily see the open space being able to fit a small trash and purse area. If needed, we'll put the sunglasses on the sun-visor and keys on the floor. Driver phone will remain in purse/pocket thanks to Bluetooth.

    Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but sometimes it seems that having all of these storage spots forces you to use them and increases the clutter without increasing the usability, ergonomics or value in general of the solution or outcomes. In general it just makes the car more of a "rolling junk drawer".
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    dsm363
    The only reason most people with an EV would need change is to go to a gas station to put air in the tires. I bought a 110V air pump for my garage to inflate my car tires. The last reason I personally would ever need to go to a gas station is now solved.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    bonnie
    * and 100% of the 2 women participating in this discussion feel the space is perfect, just as it is.

    :)
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    jkirkebo
    Tolls are automatic here. We have transponders in our cars. EVs are exempt, so I don't pay anything for the Leaf.
    Public parking is also free. Private parking is not, but they always take VISA cards so I never use coins.

    Change after a purchase goes in the wallet.

    Phone and wallet in jeans in car only works if you don't wear tight jeans ;)
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    dsm363
    I think if finding a place to store change is one of the bigger issues then Tesla is doing ok. It would be easy for Tesla to develop a slip in accessory for that space with a small coin compartment.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    onlinespending
    There is nothing tasteful about putting a cheap box there for storage. It's akin to those idiots that keep a cheap, plastic dealer license plate frame on a luxury car (let alone any car). The fact is, we shouldn't be asked to come up with cheap solutions for a common need in a car because Tesla appears to be ignorant to the wants of its customers. Even if they kept the open space, why couldn't they have a slide out compartment from the center arm rest area, as circled in the attached picture?

    console.jpg
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    bonnie
    i think you're missing the point that SOME customers LIKE this JUST THE WAY IT IS.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    dsm363
    Isn't there room for a few coins under the arm rest that's already there?
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    vfx
    Other items (some ridiculous) I have noted in others cars. Many men are not known to carry a purse. Some might be in the back or frunk but ithers want to be at hand.

    Pencil, sharpie, pen. writing pad, tax mileage logbook, highlighter, chapstick/lipstick. brush, sunlotion, toothbrush, deodorant, CD/DVDs, breathmints, gum, powerbar, napkins, condiments, water, coffee, soda, camera, tire pressure monitor (4 when filling) driving glasses, Ipad, Mp3 player, trashcan, 8 track tapes (kidding), various handheld charge cables, flash stick, card memory(s), sun hat, special shoes (worksite, hiking, flats, dress), socks, flashlight, emergency glass tool, pocketknife, earplugs, toll booth payment, emergency cash, business cards, store cards, EV charge cards, tokens, gloves, car registration, insurance card, child/baby toy distractors, jacket, blanket, scarf, umbrella, reuseable grocery bags.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    jerry33
    I would like some open space. One of the design failures between the 2004-2009 Prius and the 2010+ is that they closed up the free space and messed up the shifter and console. On the other hand I want some place handy to keep a couple of items--I think I'd look silly carrying a purse or handbag. I wouldn't mind a centre console that only went to the front of the seats. I thought that they could so something really cool like have a power console that would elevate to reveal compartment levels. A fridge on one level storage on another.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    ckessel
    As with every Tesla announcement/update, it appears we've reached the stage where a portion of those people content with what's shown and those that aren't start yelling at each other with BIG capital LETTERS.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    bonnie
    I was seeing more as 'refusing to see what others are typing'.

    I really do believe there will be an after-market offering here. If not Tesla, someone else will step in. And I think it's pretty cool that people will be able to customize the way they want.

    Sit in a Roadster for a bit & you'll start to appreciate open space. Oh, the possibilities!
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    onlinespending
    That point is not lost on me, but SOME is the operative word. As it is, it is a minority that likes it as it is. And I'd argue that a lot of us, are either such ardent advocates of Tesla that we either support all of its decisions (a bit of irrational bias) or as early adopters are simply more flexible to aspects of the car that deviate from convention. If a majority of us are displeased with the lack of more storage in the center console, then I think you'd find an even larger percentage of average consumers disliking the current implementation.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    smorgasbord
  • Mar 17, 2012
    dsm363
    Couldn't the current offering actually appeal to almost everyone? Some people seem to want that space empty. For those that don't, it appears Tesla listened and will offer something to be installed later.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    bonnie
    Yep, Dave .. .that's what I've been trying to say.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    Tommy
    The design of the center console certainly has pushed a few of my buttons, heck I've posted 3 times already on this. That being said, there is really no reason Tesla could not have implemented a solution such as onlinespending suggested and keep the remaining console open as bonnie1194 desires. I don't think it is an either or solution and as I pointed out in my previous post, there are front wheel cars that do have both a open console and enclosed storage area. IMO the transmission tunnel argument is a red herring as there are front wheel drive cars that provide both storage and open space between the front seats.

    At the end of the day, does the current Tesla console design meet or beat it's competitors. Based on how I currently use my car I don't think they do as the lack of enclosed storage space is a big drawback for me. Tesla needs to demonstrate to me how I can do away with storage I thought I needed.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    onlinespending
    Very good point. The current solution appeals to those that want an open space (the minority of folks) but offers NO center console storage for those that want it (the majority of folks). Even a solution that is a predominantly open space but offers some small compartments would please both camps. It doesn't not have to be all or nothing as you said. That's what I mean by an uninspiring solution, as it currently ignores the majority of people that want center console storage. They had the opportunity to come up with a pretty slick solution that both offers storage, yet still highlights the open space gained by the lack of a tranny tunnel. They did the simple and obvious thing, just leave it open.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    Beavis
    The more I think about it, I agree with Dave and Bonnie. What do I have I my car that I need? Not much. I need a place to charge my phone, stash my sunglasses at night (I don't wear them at night), and hide the mints. It dawns on me that everything else in my car is trash. I think I'll see how the negative space goes and if I want a console and TM offers a innovative solution, I can choose to get it.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    ElSupreme
    For someone who cleaned out my car last weekend (and it was about a year overdue) I had about everything you could imagine in my car. I found about 65 pens/pencils/sharpies that were not in my briefcase. Probably a thousand napkins. And well most everything I didn't actually want/need in my car.

    These currently reside in my door pouches:
    Sunglasses: There NEEDS to be a spot for at least 1 pair preferable 2-4 pairs. I am a little concerned about where I will store these
    Away key ring: I have 4 key rings 1 resides in my car. This can go in the glove compartment.
    Credit cards: These can go anywhere, I don't see a problem finding a spot

    These reside in my ashtray:
    RFID ID bades/keycards: I keep these in the ashtray. Why do I have 5? I only use 2 regularly I hope there is a convient place to reach these while driving into my work gate.
    Chapstick: I keep this in the ashtray. Would really like a convient place that can be cleaned after it melts all over.

    This resides in my trunk in compartments under the floor (next to the spare). I bet it ends up in my frunk:
    Multi tool: The bicycle kind. Sometimes I keep my leatherman in the same spot.
    Flashlight: Actually headlamp
    Batteries for flashlight: Headlamp is still in packaging.
    Water Bottle: In trunk. I normally have 2 unopened bottles.
    VAG-COM cable: No better place to keep it. Won't make it to the S.

    In the back seat:
    CD Case: Will finally make it into my house.

    The stuff in my glove compartment that will stay there:
    Napkins
    Tire pressure gauge
    pens/pencils/sharpies
    tag paperwork
    title paperwork
    phone audio cable
    phone charge cable
    portable usb Li-Ion charger battery device x2
    car book (I hope they give us a printed book)
    USB Stick
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    Beavis
    Supreme, you should get a Raptor skin man purse.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    dsm363
    Shouldn't we wait to see what GeorgeB was talking about when he said they would definitely be offering accessories? It sounds like there will be something for that space which should at least offer more space to organize a few loose things like coins, glasses...etc

    One of the things I actually like about the lack of a center console is that my knee doesn't hit anything. I almost got an Audi A6 about 12 years ago but went with the roomier Volvo S80 due to the center console invading the drivers compartment forcing me to rest my knee against it.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    Tommy
    Yes, however my concern is Tesla is using a business model of charging for items that should have been included. The 25% gross margins is a lofty goal and tacking on accessories is one way to meet that goal. I'm trying to be an EV adopter, but for gosh sake my pockets while deep, aren't the Grand Canyon.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    dsm363
    I agree that they need to keep from appearing to nickel and dime people with options but a permanently installed center console takes up the empty space that at least a few people want to keep open. Hopefully whatever option they offer isn't overpriced.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    ElSupreme
    I have a cow-skin man purse. I think I may actually keep it on the floor between the seats!

    :cool:

    Oh wait it is a satchel, like Indiana Jones has.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    Lloyd
    I agree, We should wait rather than spout off! If they have multiple versions you may be able to find storage that fits your personal use better than a generic one fits all factory version.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    onlinespending
    At the risk of repeating myself, the solution didn't have to be either all open space with no console (as it is now) or a permanent console that leaves no empty space (as you suggest). Tesla could have very easily come up with a solution that provides a large majority of open space, but some compartmentalized storage. Win win! And even if the console accessory placates the needs of the majority, it'll likely come at an additional cost when it quite frankly should not.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    brianman
    I'm kind of surprised the NHTSA doesn't have something to say about this. The glove box can store some of the projectiles, but not all of them. Reaching into the glove box while in motion for sunglasses seems like a dramatic headline waiting to happen.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    Trnsl8r
    I voted in favor of the open center space the way it is now, but I can see the other view point being valid. Wouldn't the perfect compromise be to get some tasteful door pockets going? Best of both worlds?
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    dsm363
    I understand what you're asking for and hopefully Tesla will provide accessories that work for you. It looks like there is a small amount of storage in the center arm rest already but it doesn't look like much and a decent sized glovebox. They could offer different size slip-in storage units for that empty area to suit personal preference. Other than cost, this does provide maximum flexibility. It'd likely be made of the same plastic the rails are made of so shouldn't be too expensive.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    smoothoperator
    Only reason this open space exists is because it represents a huge cost savings to Tesla. Some people may see it as innovative, but lets be honest here its an easy and cheap shortcut for the design team to take, at this point.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    NigelM
    "tasteful padded box" and "drawer organizers" is a contradiction in terms. This is going to be a $100k car, I don't want a plastic drawer organizer from Target.

    So don't use the cup holder for drinks?

    So, really no drinks?

    Dangerous.

    Tolls and parking.

    Talk to SWMBO about that part of the list!

    This car is likely to cost me around $100k and I need to go "after-market"??

    The 51% in my relationship doesn't agree with you.

    Right now there are only 1/4 of respondents who actively want the open console.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    Charged_Up
    Dsm363. Re change

    How about parking meters? We still have plenty of those where I am...
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    bonnie
    No, you don't need to go after-market. My point was that this was not an all or nothing thing. I agree the interior should not be something you have to finish yourself. I don't see it as unfinished. I see it more like buying accessories for a roof rack - depending on what I need, that's what I get. But this is a personal choice. Don't get me started on the Roadster cup holder.

    I only posted the 100% remark because this poll is being answered by mostly the male gender. Only pointing out that there are other inputs. so now 66.6%. I can live with that :).

    Data is funny. We can say that only 1/4 respondents want an open console ... or it could easily be said that 41% aren't concerned with the current design. And then we get to how the question is asked. If it had included 'do you want the open design so you can customize with custom parts', it likely would have driven other answers.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    brianman
    That's just in this thread...

    If you look over the posts on this and the company forums, this has been an ongoing concern for a long time.

    I'm kind of fine with tidy, clean, safe compartments being an option that I have to pay extra for. I'm kind of fine with it being an upgrade a few months after delivery of the signatures.

    I'm not fine with it being (a) after-market or (b) not mounted down. The former because I want a pure Tesla vehicle, not Tesla+Walmart. The latter because safety is a significant concern.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    dsm363
    I think it depends on where you live like you said. I haven't used a paid meter in years but for those that do, there is that center armrest to put change into. I think the meters in Seattle that I saw use credit card so at least some places are moving to that. I actually haven't carried change with me in many years either. For people who use toll booths frequently, maybe going to one of those automatic tags to charge your account would solve the change problem. Hopefully they're able to slightly modify that center armrest to add a little more storage but doesn't look like it at this point.
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  • Mar 17, 2012
    shokunin
    If they had at least given us some storage in the doors, it'd be fine with the open console. At least on our current lexus the door pockets are spring hinged to tilt to the interior and I always have a water bottle, napkins, parking access decal, napkins, etc. On the passenger side the wife has her lotion, tissues and another water bottle in there as well. Without those pockets in the doors, there will be some compromise on how and where to store things.

    Are there any cupholders in the back? The center armrest console doesn't seem to have an "pullout" cupholder, just the air vents. Then again, I guess there will be no more drive-throughs on road trips! We're stopping for electrons and a sit-down meal.
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    dsm363
    I answered 'Yes, give me some way to keep my stuff organized.' for this reason. I would like the ability to customize that area. While I would have preferred a more elegant built in solution, if they offer an array of options, I'm fine with that.
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    NigelM
    Agreed. Interesting that if this were an election result everyone would call it a landslide.

    My greatest issue with the Roadster (and this shows what a great car it is and what we'll put up with to be able to drive it) is losing my Blackberry because it won't stay in that pocket thing by the door and the tray where it will sit is virtually inaccessible when driving. I've lost my phone under the passenger seat more than once and it's bloody difficult to retrieve it from under there. (This is one of the main reasons why I just switched to an iPhone this week).

    The vast majority of us (male and female) have "stuff" in our cars. Just give us somewhere to put it as every other auto manufacturer does, and not throw it all in one big bin.
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    bonnie
    I put my iPhone in an Otter Box - your phone won't slide again. It's not as cool, but as I told a colleague recently ... when you're cool, you don't need accessories.

    :)
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    jkirkebo
    We only ever use one cup holder for drinks. The other one should hold our cell phones and a wallet I guess.

    Sunglasses I only use a few times a year, at times when the sun is really low on the horizon and is shining straight at me.

    Single space parking meters are obsolete here, haven't seen one in ten years at least. We have ticket machines serving a larger area. These take VISA cards, but public (street) parking is free for all EVs anyway. Toll booths also have been automated for years. Either you have a transponder or they have cameras reading your license plate. Also free for all EVs :)
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    smorgasbord
    You know what I think? I think Tesla needs to get Model S test drives going quickly.


    I predict that once we can experience the kick-you-in-the-gut acceleration combined with low COG body roll and tossable low-polar-moment handling, we'll stop talking about center consoles.

    Look, some of us spent $100K+ on an EV where:
    1) it has a tray instead of a glove box
    2) it has no door pockets
    3) world's worst cup holder
    4) the driver's seat only moves fore and aft
    5) the passenger seat doesn't adjust at all
    6) manual side mirrors
    7) it leaks in the rain
    8) it gets you dirty getting out after a drive

    etc., etc.

    And while we do gripe about it, we forgive it all - because of the way the car drives. I predict Model S will be the same.
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    mnx
    I for one am very excited that they are no door pockets, that way they won't get filled with garbage. Also, I like the center console the way it is.... (It'd be nice to have a spot for my sunglasses for those 0-60 in 4.4 runs but it hasn't dampened my enthusiasm for the car).

    Disclaimer

    1) I'm a minimalist
    2) I don't live in my car (i work from home)
    3) You might consider me a TSLA fanboy...
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    dsm363
    I agree. The Model S has so many positives that finding a place to put some change will probably be a minor annoyance if anything.
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    Soflauthor
    And that's perfectly okay. In a car at this price point, they should get what they want. But there are others who want a center console offering (by a margin of 36 to 14 at this writing). It is absolutely not too much to ask Tesla to provide a center console accessory�well-designed and fitted to the existing interior space, so that those of us who want a center console can have one. One more thing�Tesla should not do this "down the road." They should do it on day #1, if necessary by subcontracting to an outside vendor who will fabricate the console accessory to their spec. Fine if TM charges for the accessory, but it should be provided as an option with the first Sig that is delivered in July.
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    NigelM
    I agree with everything you wrote except for the final statement. I drive the Roadster for fun but we have a big SUV for all the practical aspects, family, kids, dogs, etc. That's the one we want to replace with an EV and the car of choice is the Model S. The point is simply that the S has to be more practical than the Roadster.
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    smoothoperator
    I am a minimalist as well and rarely keep anything in my car (usually only sunglasses, insurance, registration).....Wallet stays in back pocket, keys usually in pocket or on key ring, phone usually in pocket.

    Would rather have them upholster the whole thing and have a full length console which would look way more luxurious than the "black hole" that is currently there.



    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    bonnie
    You forgot a couple of things:
    9) tall drivers need to remove the visor and slouch in the seat so they can see out the windshield
    10) you have to really like your passenger because you will be sitting very close
    11) it's about impossible to receive or make a phone call (though some may call that a feature)
    12) you plan your shopping carefully to make sure everything will fit for the trip home
    13) trips always take longer because of all the people who want to talk to you about your car
    14) no steering wheel controls
    15) heck, no steering wheel adjustment

    ... and yes, while we do gripe about it, we forgive it all - because we have this silly grin on our face every single time we get behind the wheel.
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    brianman
    Presuming you're referring to a roadster, I applaud those people for having such strong priorities and the funds to support them. With the S, Tesla is trying to scale beyond boutique. While "sticking to your guns" can be laudable when the principle is worthy, I think Tesla is taking a stand they don't need to take. And it continues to decay loyalty and enthusiasm among the early adopters. Just seems exactly the kind of bad decision-making that makes new entrants fail in the car industry.

    Put another way, nothing about making the passenger compartment a projectile rich environment is "new or innovative" about EV vs. ICE.
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    tdelta1000
    I understand that the transmission hump is gone in the Model S but I think Tesla should have gone with a console that allows for the hiding of some personal affects. It seem a little odd that a center console would drive the cost up on a $50K vehicle when most $30k vehicles have some sort of a console.
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    ckessel
    I'm not sure why Tesla touts the lack of a transmission hump so heavily since there's no transmission hump in pure FWD cars either.
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    smoothoperator
    The average Model S purchaser is a different customer than the Roadster customer....

    The Model S is supposed to be part of the "No Compromises" motto that Tesla proudly touts. I will buy one regardless and probably have my upholstery shop create something to resemble a real console.


    The Roadster was for the early adopters, the Model S should be competitive with the E-class, 5 Series, A6 etc. If they are putting two edge plates bolted to the ground and calling this an "open console" that is unacceptable.

    I will accept compromises in the Roadster, because Tesla itself had to compromise when adapting the chassis of Lotus. They really had no choice in the matter. With a brand new platform there should be no excuses.
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    dsm363
    No car can be everything to everyone and Tesla shouldn't really be saying 'no compromises' because all cars are some compromise. I think they mean you can have a full sized, stylish sedan with amazing performance and safety that is also an EV. Some may miss the acceleration of the Roadster when they drive the Model S even though it's really fast so to them, that's a compromise. Others may desire the storage of a GMC Yukon but want an EV so the Model S or even the X is a compromise. I think we need to keep things a little in perspective here. It's still going to be an amazing car for the looks of it. Could they have done a better job with the interior? Sure but as was said, they also need to get this out the door otherwise there might not be a version 2.0 Model S.

    Telsa has almost always treated their customers well with the exception of some early Roadster owners/reservation holders possibly when they raised the price. It's quite possible they'll offer a better solution for this empty space as an upgrade (probably not free but on a $60-100K car, adding on $500 or so to make it complete and your perfect car shouldn't be a deal break. Not ideal but no car is. It's also possible the 2014 Model S will have more focus on the interior as they gain more experience and have more time and orders.

    To me, even with the possibly inferior interior and storage options, the fact it's an EV and that I never have to go to a gas station alone makes up for it. The fact that I can use my iPhone app to cool my car when it's 110F outside during the summer here before I walk out to the car helps make up for it. If buying a slip in storage bin solves my main gripe and makes this already amazing car better, I'll do it.
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    Jaff
    +1 smorg...well stated & 'nuff said!


    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    Jaff
    I don't agree with this statement at all smooth...I signed up for a Model S long before I acquired a Roadster...

    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    engle
    For those who haven't seen my images of the latest beta, "final", negative-space "open floor console" in my video and photos thread, here they are:

    Center open floor storage area:

    IMG_4890.jpg

    with carpeting removed: (black plastic)

    IMG_4893.jpg

    back of console carpeting showing recycled material:

    IMG_4894.jpg

    Arm rests slid back revealing a pair of cupholders: (courtesy of ddenboer)

    IMG_1710.jpg

    Since few females have voted in this poll, I decided to vote my wife's preference, which is also for the open floor console where she will put her purse. I think as long as Tesla offers a Model S console storage unit as an accessory like George says they will, they will be able to make almost everybody happy. Perhaps we should start asking: "when will the first Model S accessories catalog be released"?
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    dsm363
    How much storage is in the arm rest. Do you have any pictures of it open? Thanks.
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    smoothoperator
    Full Sized stylish sedan- there are several full sized stylish sedans in this segment
    Amazing Performance- In this segment most of the sedans have similar performance (E63, M5, etc)
    Safety- all cars in this segment are very safe vehicles

    Tesla has stated many times publicly that their goal is to design this sedan to be the best in the world. It has to have the complete package to be classified as the "Best on the Planet". Having a console right now that looks like something that belongs in a Chevy Aveo does not satisfy that requirement:
    2012: The Year of Model S on Vimeo
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    engle
    See post #83 courtesy of ddenboer for a photo. My recall is that I asked to see the cupholders, and the salesperson from LA slid back the short armrest to reveal them. They are useless if you still want to use your armrest because they are so far back right in front of the seat back basically. I wonder if the cupholder module can be easily removed to create a small covered storage space?

    They really should have involved a "customer focus group" to give them feedback on early designs of the Model S interior, IMHO.
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    AnOutsider
    So do they slide further back for some storage under the armrests or is the cup holders it?
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    onlinespending
    Exactly. No offense but I hate when people fall back on the "you'll love how the Model S drives that you won't (or shouldn't) care about anything else". Guess what? Tesla isn't trying to sell just a couple thousand Model S'es as they did with the Roadster. They need to create a car with mass appeal. And a car at this price point with direct competition with the BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, and Audis of the world can't afford to have shortcomings that roughly two-thirds of Tesla fans aren't in support of. I have no doubts that I'll love how the Model S drives among many other things with the car. But I'd also love a lot of things about a new car from one of those competitors. Despite all the great things about the Model S I'm not willing to simply overlook what I perceive to be a glaring shortcoming with the interior.
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    Tommy
    Tesla's insistence of having a negative space open console reminds me of Apple's insistence on the one button mouse. Eventually Apple adopted the two button mouse concept and in the process greatly expanded the mouse's capabilities; the magic mouse really is an ergonomic wonder. Unfortunately, I think it took a decade for Apple to officially adopt the 2 button standard; I don't know if I can wait that long for Tesla to do the same to improve it's current incarnation of the open console.
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    gmontem
    Good luck finding pictures of that one. I asked a rep today about it. You cannot store anything inside the center console.
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    brianman
    As a roadster owner, you are not the average Model S purchaser, Jaff.

    If the average Model S purchaser is a roadster owner, then the sales volume will be way off the mark for the Model S.
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    ckessel
    I'm pretty sure you're not an "average" Model S purchaser though. Anyone that can afford a Roadster is out in "exotic car" territory and in a slightly different income class than someone buying a luxury car. Someone that can buy both a Roadster _and_ a Model S, well, you're in some rarefied air. It may not seem like it visiting these forums given the nature of the audience the forums attract, but a pretty huge percentage of even luxury car buyers, which are by nature doing quite well, aren't in your income class.
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    dsm363
    None of those are EVs though. Your only options until the Model S in the US are the Leaf and until now, the Roadster for a pure EV. I think they mean you can have all of those safety and performace features which Mercedes and BMW definitely have and it's an EV on top of that. I agree that their marketing speak is over the top sometimes but what company doesn't do that? That doesn't make it right but it's advertising. A restaurant saying they have the best burger in America doesn't make it so, they have to have people back that claim up.

    Tesla needs to deliver and it looks like they may not have met people's expectations with the interior in the initial version. Other than the interior, it looks like most people are happy with the car and the interior is probably the easier thing to rework for future model years than major engineering work on the powertrain or battery pack. We'll have to wait until production versions are out and people start test driving them and using them on a daily basis I think before making a final judgment. Franz says 'best performance sedan in the marketplace' which could mean a lot of different things to different people. If the Model S matches the performance of the M5 but does it without gas and has the additional storage of the frunk but not a nicer interior, does that make it better or worse? It's a personal judgment in the end. I've still never owned a nicer interior than a Volvo so anything above that will be an upgrade for me so I'm excited. I thought the beta looked nice but have never owned an S class AMG or M5 before.
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    Jaff
    Not so at all.

    I reserved a Model S long before I was approached with the "lease a Roadster until your Model S is ready program"

    I have never owned a vehicle that is considered to be an exotic...highest end car was a Lexus.

    My delimma will be working the budget once we have to commit to the Model S to try to keep both vehicles.

    I do not subscribe to the "rich boy toy" desciption of Tesla's vehicles nor their clientele...that's pure buncome.

    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    onlinespending
    Seriously. Tesla's worst nightmare would be if the average Model S owner were on par with the average Roadster owner, since that would mean it didn't penetrate the broader market.
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    ckessel
    Sorry, that wasn't what I meant, though you have to be pretty damn well off to afford a Roadster, upper 5% maybe. I meant that you're probably not average simply because average people don't buy Roadsters to begin with. They either don't have money, or the right family situation, etc. Anyone that buys a Roadster is pretty much by definition not statistically likely to represent an average sedan customer.

    People that are 6'5" aren't either. Nor people with 5 kids. That doesn't mean any of those opinions aren't valuable, but they're not likely to represent the average buyer.
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    smorgasbord
    No offense, but I hate when people who haven't experienced what I'm talking about complain about what I'm talking about.
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    dsm363
    You're basing that off of the poll on here. The way it was worded, even I voted "Yes, give me some way to keep my stuff organized." because I knew GeorgeB had mentioned they would be coming out with accessories to fill that space for people who wanted it. The poll isn't scientific at all so we have maybe an idea of how a few people on this forum feel but not how the 8,000 reservation holders feel.

    You have every right to complain about the interior if that's how you feel and cancel your reservation even. Hopefully Tesla listens to people's concerns and either offers an accessory to fill that space that satisfies enough people or improves the interior with a future model year. This is Tesla's first car from the ground up and while they should be compared to similarly priced cars, a $100,000 Mercedes has a lot more cap room to spend on interior than the Model S at that price which has to put probably 30% of the car's cost just into the battery. I doubt the engine in the Mercedes is 30% of the cost of the car. It's not an excuse for the Model S interior, just one possible explanation.
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    gg_got_a_tesla
    Sorry, late to this party; checked out the cars and the Santana Row store in the afternoon. Will post some other thoughts and pics on the thread that Russ Engle started.

    Apologies if I'm repeating some of the following; quickly skimmed through the thread.

    gmontem is correct. There's absolutely no storage inside the armrest - the armrest halves slide back to reveal the cupholders but do not open otherwise! The rep suggested that it had to do with facilitating the rear vents. Not sure why there had to be two halves then though (almost suggesting that they'd flip open in opposite directions)?! Could have very well been one plank that slides back.

    And, the Front USB ports would apparently make their way to the foot of the armrest near the 12V outlet; that'd be consistent with the fact that Rear USB ports would be provided near the rear vents for those who get the Tech Package. So, yes, your phones will be towards the back of the center console area.

    Also, although we couldn't open the dash storage area with the button on the White beta, the rep said that he could open it in a different car and it's apparently no bigger and deeper than a stack of Manila folders! So, only the essential stuff - registration, insurance docs, maybe sunglasses and wallets - would fit in there.

    Storage, or lack thereof, particularly in the door pockets is a concern. The rear passengers have no storage at all essentially!

    Having said all that, loved the open center console with the rails! So roomy and clean looking. ckessel had wondered earlier as to how he'd rest his right leg when driving in cruise mode on the hwy - the lack of a center console allowed me to flex my longish right leg (part of my 6' 1" frame) like never before! It was amazing and something I could obviously never do before in a gas car!
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    onlinespending
    Well no one here has experience driving a Model S, but even if we focus just on the Roadster you're argument proves the point many of us are trying to make. You love the Roadster, a $100k+ car, despite providing a litany of shortcomings. This way of thinking is divergent from the average luxury car buyer. I don't expect a Roadster owner, someone willing to drop over $100k on a car they themselves admit to being far from ideal, to sympathize with my gripes over the Model s interior.
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    smorgasbord
    Yeah, well, you'd be wrong on that, too:

    1) I posted in this very thread with an suggested example of a Honda pickup interior that has both a center console and space on the floor in front between the seats.

    2) I voted "give me some way to keep my stuff organized" in this poll.

    3) I started my own poll to see how people like the interior, with the intent to provide feedback to Tesla, who we know monitors this forum.


    It's no coincidence that the 2 people who disagreed with my post are not Roadster owners and probably have not driven a Roadster for themselves. Have you even gotten a ride in Model S yet?
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    smoothoperator
    I agree with onlinespending and I do know what you are talking about, I own a few roadsters. The Roadster is a great novelty but for daily use a lot of us Roadster owners (my friends who are also roadster owners) are looking for a more versatile car. Having daily driven a Roadster for 15 months, it can get tiresome to have to put up with some of the quirks of the vehicle after a long day of work. It is a quick car from 0-60 but does not drive exceptionally well at highway speeds. Hence personally I have been looking for a more apt daily driver. I have a sig reservation and will take delivery of the vehicle but it is not because it is necessarily better than other cars in this class (interior). If you want a pure EV car with this kind of range there is only one game in town.


    1:22 in that video Franz says: "Model S will be the best car in the world on the planet" their mark was to make the best sedan on the market not the best EV on the market....They are trying to attract customers who are cross shopping with other luxury brands. The best EV on the market means they are only competing with the Coda and Leaf....the Best sedan in the world means they are competing with some major players....
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    dsm363
    I think the pitting of Model S vs Roadster owners with one saying the other doesn't understand their concerns is odd. Both are very expensive cars in the upper echelons of price range so it's not like we're talking about a civic owner saying a Lamborghini owner doesn't understand their concerns about interior fit and finish. In fact some Model S owners will actually spend more than some early Roadster owners.


    I agree that they may go over the top with that sometimes. Should probably say 'our goal is to produce the best sedan in the world' not 'will be the best sedan in the world'. Best is subjective when it comes to cars anyway so to one, simply being an EV could make it the best while to another, having an eco friendly interior without leather or harmful chemicals would make it the best.
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    smoothoperator

    Person spending 95k on a family luxury sedan is a different customer than someone who spends 100k on a sports car... Are you saying they are the same customer? Price has something to do with it but the type of car probably has more to do with it. In my opinion they are completely different customers.

    I do not think Tesla means what you are saying....I think Tesla really believes the Model S is the best sedan on the planet. They really thought they hit the mark with this car.

    By best sedan I think there are some quantifiable factors we all can agree on:

    1. Nice looking exterior
    2. Nice looking/ergonomic interior
    3. Performance
    4. Ride Quality/Handiling
    5. Fit Finish
    6. Options/Technology

    In order to be the best you have to score well on all these categories. Really does not matter if the materials are eco friendly or not as long as they look good and are functional is all that matters.

    Powertrain is not the only factor in this class... It can be a diesel, gas, ev or whatever...best sedan has nothing to do with powertrain specifically but complete package....
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    dsm363
    I agree with you and it appears that Tesla may have missed the best in every category when it comes to interior utility by some people's standards.

    Sports car owners and luxury sedan customers are two different sets of customers but $100,000 is still $100,000. I would guess many people spending that much money on a sedan could also probably afford a sports car on top of it for fun. Not everyone but $100,000 is a totally different bracket than the traditional 50-70k luxury car market.
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    Grendal
    You forgot safety. Don't forget safety. They already got it with all around 5 stars, but it should be on the list.
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    dsm363
    That hasn't been confirmed yet but that's Tesla's goal with the Model S. They said they are confident they'll reach that goal though.
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    smoothoperator

    I bet most of Tesla's customers will be in the 50-70k Model S range....WIth the Sig's I would venture a guess that 10-20% of all Sig orders are probably Roadster owners.

    Most people who "buy" 100k cars are really "leasing" 100k cars. Perhaps they could also "lease" a sports car as well. Tesla currenty has no lease program for the Model S....So Basically you have four types of customers for the Model S...

    1. Model S will be the most expensive car they have owned
    2. MB/BMW/Audi/Lexus etc former luxury car leasee's/owners who are switching to Tesla
    3. Roadster Owners/Leasee's
    4. EVangelists

    I think both 1 & 2 would comprise the biggest chunk of Model S sales. They will be comparing the Model S to cars they have owned in the past that has storage space and more attractive interiors than the Model S.

    We are in the 3 & 4 category...while a substantial portion of Roadster sales we will probably not make up the lion share of the Model S sales.
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    smoothoperator
    most luxury cars in this class have good scores...does a 4 star rating vs a 5 star rating really make a big difference? I am not so sure? maybe it does

    Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Infiniti all are rated top IIHS top safety picks in this category.
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    vfx
    I don't have much in my current door pockets but the wife uses here as a trash can. Since there is no time to fix any of this, I bet Tesla adds all these suggestions on next years model.
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    westerndh
    I've followed the discussion on the center tray and was really worried. One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is, what I believe will prove to be pure genius on Tesla's part. The role of women in men's purchase decisions.

    I believe universally Women will love the center console for the natural, protected place to store their handbag/purse and is such a stand out, this will be prove to be very helpful in getting wives/SO's to love this car.

    Guy's, we're all going to have to buy man purses to house our stuff!
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    westerndh
    Or better yet, Tesla can provide us all with free leather Euro satchels to throw in there!
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    Doug_G
    It's a bit bigger than that. Here's a pic I snapped of the original signature red beta's glove compartment:

    IMG_0325.JPG
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    brianman
    I'm very confused by this logic. From that you can extrapolate that every Model S owner will have infinity cars.
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    Norbert
    I'd think it is more a question of complexity within a limited development time frame... Ted said in one of the interviews that many of those little parts have to be ordered long in advance (1.5 years for example). At that time many larger things were probably still subject to change.

    However, I like the open console a lot since I found out on Friday how easy to reach it is. (Although I also like that they are planning accesory(ies) for it. They might eventually have different ones, and it will be much easier for them since they don't have to please everyone, if there are choices.)

    I might have something like this in it (if not something more "upscale"), and then perhaps store it in the glove compartment whenever I leave the car in unknown territory :

    Car Visor Organizer with Phone Pocket - CargoGear Car and Truck Accessories
    �
  • Mar 17, 2012
    Norbert
  • Mar 18, 2012
    dsm363
    That's not what I meant to say at least. I'm saying if one is buying within their means and goes for the $100,000 Model S, their finances should be such that the $100,000 Model S isn't breaking the bank for them. They likely could afford a weekend sports car for fun (maybe not another $100,000+ model) but that was my point. People going after $100K cars are typically in a different financial position that people buying $50k car. Not always but I'd guess that's usually the case. Of course someone buying the 100K Model could also decide the 50K Model S suits their needs and get that as well. I was just trying to point out that the top the the Model S segment at around 100K is likely a different buyer than the 50K model and cars competing against it. Of course one can always buy outside their means or simply be only desire on big purchase which is where most people fall and that could be a car at any price.
    �
  • Mar 18, 2012
    dsm363
    I think it will be trivial for them to mold some plastic insert for coins and other items to slip into the front of this space before launch and provide it for free. Hopefully they listen as it sounds like this would help with some people's concerns.
    �
  • Mar 18, 2012
    Jaff
    I voted the same smorg...
    �
  • Mar 18, 2012
    Lloyd
    I voted to "give me some way to keep my stuff...." Cars are for transporting people and sutff. Depending on how much stuff you normally take with you a solution to keep your stuff might be necessary.

    �
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