Thứ Năm, 5 tháng 1, 2017

#34 Salvage auction part 1

  • Aug 27, 2013
    dhrivnak
  • Aug 27, 2013
    bart513
    I'll take the wheels and the CF sills!
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  • Aug 27, 2013
    Raffy.Roma
    @david

    I think that you could fix this Roadster. :wink:

    - - - Updated - - -

    Then I just found out that it's a Signature Roadster. So I think that this Roadster deserves to be fixed.
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  • Aug 27, 2013
    sublimaze1
    I would purhcase to restore. But whoever put that tape all over it, no doubt, has marred the finish. Not worth buffing it out.
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  • Aug 28, 2013
    PV1
    #34

    I was wondering if anybody knows what replacement body parts cost? Namely the driver's side door and quarter panel+charge port.
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  • Aug 28, 2013
    Adam Solar
    Are there any other wrecked roadsters out there for parts? What portion of the rear components are lotus vs tesla? Anybody with some solid advice on what the repair will take? I want this car. I knew the owner and took it to the car show last year. I'm also currently winning the auction and debating how high to bid. Cheers.
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  • Aug 28, 2013
    wiztecy
    Curious why the airbag deployed when the Roadster wasn't damaged in the front, where only the side/back is crashed....
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  • Aug 28, 2013
    richkae
    Someone finds a wrecked Roadster being sold for salvage every couple of months, check the "Tesla for Sale" subforum. If you end up winning the auction - many people on this forum would love to see a long detailed video of you disassembling and reassembling parts of the car - especially the PEM.
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  • Aug 28, 2013
    Roadster22
    Wouldn't the battery be bricked if not being charged and that would be $40,000 alone to fix.
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  • Aug 29, 2013
    wiztecy
    Considering that the charge port was smashed, there's no way they'd be able to keep the battery charged. Only if somehow the system detected a crash / short in the charge system and properly shut down, that would be the only hope there's still life for the battery. Otherwise I'd say its toast.

    So back to my question... why'd the airbag deploy? Anyone? Anyone?


    ...so after looking around I found a Lotus Elise that was hit in the same area on the passenger side, only the passenger side airbag was deployed. So there must be some sensors that get triggered for side impacts.
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  • Aug 29, 2013
    djp
    If the battery was fully charged when it crashed and all systems are down so the car isn't drawing any power then it should be good for a year or so. If they were smart they'd store it in a cool garage instead of letting it bake in the sun, but unfortunately doesn't look like it from the pics.
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  • Aug 29, 2013
    vfx
    I'll buy those seats!

    - - - Updated - - -

    And door panels. :)
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  • Aug 29, 2013
    marco2228
    It's listed since 9 days.
    I thought about buying that roadster, as well.
    No body parts of the Lotus fit, as far as I can tell. Not sure about the chassis, but the subframe is torn out.

    Still thinking about buying it, but the batterie is probably dead :(
    It had its accident in March, I guess.

    But I want the drivetrain for my Porsche 912 :)
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  • Aug 29, 2013
    bart513
    We're building a team. Someone wants the seats, door panels, drive train. I want the wheels and the CF parts and if it has the original JVC single DIN nav head
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  • Aug 29, 2013
    marco2228
    Who is the team leader? I'd seriously take the drivetrain and the whole electronics incl. the BMS. Otherwise I won't get it running. But don't need the JVC :p
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  • Aug 29, 2013
    vfx
    Windshield and top are the same. The tops are interchangeable but I have not heard of anyone swapping the windscreen.

    Tesla says 7 percent of the Roadster is Lotus.

    - - - Updated - - -

    If the car is being parted I can come up with a "nice to have" longer list. (even if this car does not have them) I'm putting dibs in.

    Soft top
    Coolant overflow bottle
    Mud flaps
    Carbon fiber wing
    Carbon Fiber hood slats
    Tesla front badge
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  • Aug 29, 2013
    wiztecy
    This thread reminds me of a swarm of hawks eying up a roadkill!
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  • Aug 29, 2013
    thefortunes
    I don't even have my Roadster yet (hopefully Saturday) and am looking at pictures of #34 to see if I can use anything :confused:
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  • Aug 29, 2013
    Roadster22
    The car looked so amazing back before the accident :( Here is a post of when it was for sale from SweetCars:

    "Hi guys.

    I work for a smaller high-end dealership in Fort Wayne, IN, and we have had a 2008 Tesla Roadster that is #034 with 4779 miles and was formerly Leonardi DiCaprio's car. VIN# is 5YJRE11B381000034

    We only have the one, so we're not trying to sell a ton of these, we just want to give you, the enthusiasts, a chance to purchase this beautiful car.

    The car has a clean CarFax, shows no accidents, we are the 3rd "owner". It does come with the 240V charger, hardtop, soft-top, and emergency charger.

    I will let the pictures do the talking.

    We are selling the car for $76,000.

    We are willing to ship the car at the buyer's expense, but we will help arrange an enclosed transport at no extra fee.

    If I am forgetting something or if you would like more information, please don't hesitate to PM me or call me directly at 260-207-2277. Ask for Tim, I will be more than happy to assist you all.

    And now for the pictures:
    IMG_1732.jpg
    IMG_1738.jpg
    IMG_1764-1.jpg
    IMG_1759-1.jpg
    IMG_1757-1.jpg
    IMG_1716.jpg "

    It was LD's car ! Also some of the pics if you look close seem to show the Signature plaque between the seats.
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  • Aug 29, 2013
    bart513
    Hey I have the CF pieces haha. But seriously all those interested in piecing this out and willing to chip in let's make a go!
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  • Aug 29, 2013
    brianman
    I'm sad to see a Roadster drawn and quartered, generally. More so when the VIN is low.
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  • Aug 30, 2013
    Adam Solar
    Still winning with 3 hours to go... nail biter. I've been staring at this Max Bid Screen all week... So many variables on this thing going back together right...
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  • Aug 30, 2013
    jbadger
    If that were here in California I would buy it. There are so many pieces on their that I would like to have.
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  • Aug 30, 2013
    marco2228
    I am probably out of the race.The batterie will be most likely dead after the long storage, because the fuse/switch is still in there. You can see it in the picture.
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  • Aug 30, 2013
    wiztecy
    If nobody here won this car for $12k I wouldn't d be surprised to see someone trying to flip it to some sucker for $25-30k on eBay like they usually do and sit there forever with rejected offers rotting away. Hope it gets rebuilt.
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  • Aug 30, 2013
    brianman
    I also don't like this...
    ... if it's actually them. Only bad can come of them getting anywhere near a Tesla.

    I guess we'll find out soon enough:
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  • Aug 30, 2013
    PV1
    I was hoping Adam Solar would get it. He was going to rebuild it. I got a quote from Tesla. Replacement fiber and suspension was about $9,000. Whoever got it got a good deal.
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  • Aug 30, 2013
    PV1
  • Aug 30, 2013
    jeremyz
    I think paying $12k to part it out might be a good deal. Paying $12k to rebuild it seems like a bad deal to me though.
    $12,000 for car with salvage title + $9,000 for panels and suspension + $38,000 for battery + ? = $59,000 + ?
    For the same money you could get a CPO Roadster with a 3 year warranty with a real title (not a salvage one)

    Of course, the whole equation changes if the battery wasn't bricked.
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  • Aug 30, 2013
    PV1
    I don't think it was bricked. It had half a charge when it was wrecked, and the auction lot parked it in a building. Would it lose that much power in a month?
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  • Aug 30, 2013
    wiztecy
    I think TOP GEAR has no association with the show, however it does imply a petro-head for the most part.
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  • Aug 30, 2013
    marco2228
    How do you know, it just stood there for a month? I think it was March or so, when it had its accident?
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  • Aug 30, 2013
    wiztecy
    I also don't see from accident to insurance company to salvage company to auction being as quick as a month, March timeframe sounds right.
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  • Aug 30, 2013
    PV1
    The auction lot had it for a month. It went live last week.
    I stopped and looked at it. The screen was lit up, saying preparing to charge, and had a 1/4 charge left.
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  • Aug 30, 2013
    brianman
    Good catch!
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  • Aug 30, 2013
    marco2228
    @PV1
    That's really interesting^^
    did you buy it? I'm pretty sure, that it didn't go for 12k, because there should have been a live bidding session after the public bidding.
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  • Aug 30, 2013
    PV1
    Unfortunately, no. I know Adam Solar on here, and I also know the former owner of this Roadster (not Leo). It was live bidding that it went for $12,000. They usually do preliminary bidding, then live bidding. We found it right before it went live and have been following it.
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  • Aug 30, 2013
    Adam Solar
    Hey PV1 who are you!? (I assumed we'd have to know each other if you're a solar guy in the Burgh') And I was there at 5 min til auction close about to hit enter for $10k and it jumped to $12k. What an emotional roller coaster. It took a lot of restraint to keep from continuing playing the game, and who knows Top Gear might have gone for $15k+. And yes the battery was good with 67 miles of charge as of Wednesday. But there could have been problems still from an impact like that. Model X dreaming now... but it would have been fun to rebuild it and blog it. I'm sure I'll have $20k in this CRX conversion soon and it just won't ever be the same as an original Tesla... The plan was to sell the TSLA stock to pay for the deal too which would have been really cool. Keep this thread posted or start a new one if anyone sees what happens to #34. Cheers.
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  • Aug 30, 2013
    PV1
    I think we've met a few times. I thought I saw you at the car show and Lavender Festival.
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  • Aug 30, 2013
    wiztecy
    Lets try to get people organized for the next time something like this comes up where its not able to be restored... rather see them restored for sure.

    Possibly a new thread/section can be created, somehow a moderator / organizer / and divide the states up where its feasible with resources. I personally have a car hauler if its around my area so keep that in mind.

    I think since the Roadsters are now going out of warranty this will be a valuable thing to keep them going for some time at a reasonable price.
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  • Sep 2, 2013
    Fabrizio
    A friend of mine pointed me to a web site for insurance auctions. Today they have several Tesla's - MS (8983, 907, & 3837) and Roadsters (948 & 192). But you have to have a dealer license to bid.
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  • Sep 5, 2013
    marco2228
    The roadster is listed again. "Buy it now" for 14500$.
    I almost bought it. But I am from Germany and until I have it here, I would have had to pay 24420$ (Car price + , which is not a good deal anymore^^
    That's too much, to repair it� unfortunately.
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  • Oct 16, 2013
    marco2228
    the Roadster is in Germany now. It will probably get repaired to have one more excellent electric car in Germany:)
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  • Oct 16, 2013
    hcsharp
    Congratulations! Please keep us posted on your progress restoring it.
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  • Oct 16, 2013
    wiztecy
    Ditto! Glad you bought it and are restoring it... too few of these babies around to loose them like grains of sand falling through your hands. Keeps a good log/pics of your progress!
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  • Oct 16, 2013
    TEG
    I hope someone was able to charge it before it went on a boat to Germany. It would be a shame if the ESS 'bricked' on the way over. 1/4 charge is low to start a 2 month sea journey.
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  • Oct 16, 2013
    marco2228
    I talked to the "junk yard" manager.. he took out the service disconnect, due to the damage it was easy to reach.
    The batterie has 20 miles in it in range mode, but that's enough :)
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  • Oct 18, 2013
    AEdennis
    Might be a great thing to blog about... I'd read it!

    Good luck with the restoration. I'm one of the guys who only know how put in gas and turn the car on and go... Now, I have problem with the first part (put in gas)...

    Enjoy!
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  • Oct 19, 2013
    marco2228
    Thanks for the wishes, but I actually didn't buy it.
    I wanted to buy the car after I had been sure that the batterie was ok, but the time I wanted to buy it the bank was closed and I wanted to save one day of storage fees at the salvage yard (65$) and buy it on Thursday morning. I talked about this to an acquaintance of mine, who is interested in Tesla in general. I shouldn't have done that.
    Well, I think I taught him too much and he just bought the car after our conversation.

    Yesterday I had a look at the car. Looked as expected, additionally the front and rear window is broken.

    I still have to decide whether to help him or not with the restoration. It would be really interesting but I am kind of pi**ed off by that guy, right now.

    As expected the car shows several errors:
    -BSM: Contactor power failure (ID: 271)
    -TPMS: Hardware error (ID:409)
    -SWP: APS off, but no pulse from BPS (ID 420)

    Any ideas, what these errors mean? Maybe I can still buy it from him, if he gets bored by his new toy or just buy some other wrecked Roadster.
    Does anyone know, if theres exist a schematic of the Roadster anywhere in the web?
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  • Oct 19, 2013
    Doug_G
    BSM contactor power failure sounds serious, but might not be
    TPMS is not important - that is the tire pressure monitoring system. The system tends to lose track of the wheels even when it is working!
    Not sure about the third one

    As for your friend... you have very good reason to be pissed. That's not something a friend does.
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  • Oct 19, 2013
    wiztecy
    I've had the same contactor power failure when washing my roadster, the 1.5's use inductive charging. Was the car just washed? If the motor gets "shorted" in the charge circuit that'll trigger. Take a look down there to make sure no cables have not shifted and shorted. I had a TMPS failure when putting in my HID balasts under the passenger wheel well. I snugged up the connection and everything worked well again. I knew I stressed/tugged that connection / cable when doing my lights so it was an easy reverse for me to get rid of the code. You won't find a thing on codes / schematics / documentation on any of this stuff. Its for us to organize and formulate what's what from hear on until a manual is repair manual is produced.
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  • Oct 20, 2013
    marco2228
    Thanks for your answers.

    The HID ballast is some kind of external load for the lights, as far as I learned from google, correct?
    One thing I noticed was the "satellite trigger" cable at the rear left fender was torn off. What does this thing do? Is it a GPS Tracker?

    I already read your BSM error thread, wiztecy. That makes perfect sense, the cooling fluid drops (even splashes when the pump is on) down from the right side between PEM and ESS. Additionally the PEM is open and the car is parked outside^^

    The 3rd error might be caused by the broken PCB around the charging port, which has the LED's on it. Not sure, but that's the only broken thing besides the satellite trigger, I am aware of.
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  • Oct 28, 2013
    marco2228
    Only error 271 is left. It just shows the error message with the ID 271, no Insulation faults or so...
    Could it be caused by a broken PCB with the LED's on it at the charge port?

    ID 420 was something with the 12 V supply, but appears again after the car is shut down completely by the service disconnect. So we still have to figure out, what it is exactly.
    ID 409 was caused by some bad connection close to the fender, thanks wiztecy and Doug_G :)
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  • Nov 10, 2013
    marco2228
    #34 is alive, again:)
    Took apart the batterie pack and found the error after 2-3 hours of investigation. There's a small switch in the service disconnect, which didn't work.
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  • Nov 10, 2013
    dhrivnak
    Wow you pulled out the battery. I am told the battery is 975 lbs 450 kgs, no small feat as it comes out the bottom. Was it that hard and do you have any pictures?
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  • Nov 10, 2013
    TonyWilliams
    Normally, you would lift the car and place a cart under the battery. Unbolt / disconnect, etc, and RAISE the car leaving the battery.
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  • Nov 10, 2013
    marco2228
    I put a palette under the batterie, unbolted / disconnected it and raised the car with one tractor in front and one at the back of the car. :D
    It's definitely challenging, but can be done. Well, wouldn't do it just for fun;)
    I'll look for a picture later.
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  • Nov 10, 2013
    wiztecy
    Awesome Marco, did you actually open the battery case? Where was the service disconnect? I' guess on the outside of the case. Would be great if you have any pics of the whole process. Thanks for sharing.
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  • Nov 10, 2013
    marco2228
    Yes, I opened it and took all modules out, because I wanted to get rid of the dent in the batterie case. When you look at the pack from behind, the service disconnect is on the left side of the pack. You don't see the little switch, if you don't know about it. I just saw two small wires going into the socket of the connector inside the batterie case.

    I won't post any detailed pics, because I don't want Tesla to be mad about it.

    case.jpg range.jpg sheets_close.jpg sheets.jpg
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  • Nov 10, 2013
    hcsharp
    Wow congratulations Marco! You are the first person that I know of who has opened a Roadster battery pack (outside of Tesla). And you were able to put it back together so it works! I assume you are able to charge it now? I'm very impressed.

    Did it look like it would be difficult to open the sheets in case somebody wanted to install newer, larger capacity cells?

    Please keep us posted on anything else you discover.
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  • Nov 10, 2013
    markwj
    notworthy.gif

    Congratulations. Awesome achievement to rescue this signature!
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  • Nov 10, 2013
    jbadger
    Perhaps this means there will be more options when our batteries start dying? It might be possible to replace a sheet or two from salvaged roadsters for a lot less than buying a full refurbished pack from Telsa?
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  • Nov 10, 2013
    hcsharp
    This is huge. The fact that a non-Tesla person can remove, disassemble, re-assemble, and re-install the ESS and still have it work is fantastic news. Among other things, it means the price of a replacement pack will probably be reasonable. It means a higher capacity pack will probably become available even if Tesla never makes one. Given cell supply constraints, Tesla will be in no hurry to put Model S cells in the Roadster ESS.

    It comes with a word of caution however. It's dangerous working on the ESS. Electrocution hazard is high and fire hazard is high.
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  • Nov 11, 2013
    jeremyz
    Marco2228, did you open up any of the individual bricks? Were the cells wire bonded in there like in the Model S battery? Or were they just squished in there via mechanical force? If they were just squished in there, than it does seem like it would be possible to just throw in 621 new cells to rebuild a brick (assuming the electronics in it still worked). If they're wire bonded in there, than it seems like it would be a lot more difficult to rebuild a brick.
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  • Nov 11, 2013
    jbadger
    I would think new firmware would be required if the cells were changed from the original specs. It may not put an even load over the cells causing some to fail before others more rapidly.
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  • Nov 11, 2013
    qwk
    The roadster cells are epoxied in. Different than the newer packs.
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  • Nov 11, 2013
    marco2228
    Wow, what happened here?

    Well, you have to know in which order you have to remove the parts. As I already wrote, I wouldn't take the batterie out and disassemble it just for fun.
    Taking the sheets out is an easy task, but it's impossible to remove or even replace a single brick or cell in a sheet. As qwk already said, the cells are glued into the sheet... and electrically connected by a small wire which I think is connected by ultrasonic welding.

    @hcsharp: I didn't reinstall it yet, I just connected it with extension wires from the outside of the car to look for the error.

    Now I have to tear the car down further to fix the body parts. Unfortunately it's the begin of winter now and the glue needs at least 15 �C for proper hardening. Maybe I should move the chassis into my basement:D
    I am actually thinking of insulating the back wall of the drivers compartment from the outside... still have to figure out, if that's a good idea.
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  • Nov 11, 2013
    vfx
    This is truly amazing.

    Maybe someone else has ventured this deep into the Tesla battery but I have not heard of it.

    Marco, be sure to take lots of notes and pictures. Unless you plan to fix Roadsters for a living, it would be great to have this open source. Tesla has had some of the old Roadster experts move on. A growing company has a lot of promotions and some key managers have sold X Millions in TSLA and are traveling the world, etc. In the far future there will be few to do more than pull and replace.
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  • Nov 11, 2013
    qwk
    You can bet that there have been many packs taken apart. :wink: If you don't know what you are doing, you WILL die! Almost 400V of DC electricity is better left alone.

    There are pics of disassembled packs, but Tesla would have a fit if they were posted online(I don't blame them), so it's just better to leave it be.
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  • Nov 11, 2013
    vfx
    Then how about a Chilton's manual?
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  • Nov 12, 2013
    hcsharp
    I'm sorry but I seriously doubt many (if any) packs have been taken apart by non-Tesla employees. First, it's well known that it's dangerous. Second, nobody wants to void their warranty. And nobody knew for sure that they could put it back together without expensive damage. I know hackers like to hack, but they don't do it with $40k parts when risks are so high. I'm disappointed to find out that the individual cells are glued into the bricks. I've always wondered how they kept that seal from leaking.

    @jeremyz, You're confusing bricks with sheets. There are 9 bricks in a sheet. But you got the cell count right per sheet. Each brick is surrounded by metal so a fire will not spread uncontrolled to the whole pack.
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  • Nov 12, 2013
    qwk
    Salvage cars don't have a warranty. Tesla gives 0 credit for dead pack. Combine the two, and ....
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  • Nov 12, 2013
    hcsharp
    Yes the catalyst was there for Marco. No warranty, nothing to lose, everything to gain. I hope we all benefit!
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  • Nov 12, 2013
    wiztecy
    Question will be how to rebuild these packs once they're toast. Also the ability to measure each sheet down to each brick so they can be rebuilt cost effectively. So with all the cells locked down into each sheet it sounds like you can only salvage good individual bricks. With the new brick that needs to be built it has to be seen if they still need to be epoxied back in or if possible layed back in for easier maintenance in the future. I think the next step would be for people to start contacting battery / refurbishment companies. For example my friend sent his 1st Gen Rav 4 EV's pack out to Sacramento where they rebuilt it with refurbished NiCads.

    Also in the case of a bricked Roadster pack, talking with people, it is possible to recover the cells and bring them back to life from the bricked state although there may be some cells/bricks that might not recover. But there appears to be hope.
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  • Nov 12, 2013
    qwk
    Sadly, the way the roadster pack is assembled, I don't see a way for anyone but Tesla to swap cells. Although I haven't seen a Model S module up close, it looks like a much more cell swap friendly design.
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  • Nov 12, 2013
    wiztecy
    Whats your best guess on how they swap cells? I'm guessing they just salvage usable bricks and stick those bricks to make up a sheet with similar CAC values to match the other sheets. Then toss / recycle the materials of the old brick. However someone could build a new brick and epoxy all the cells in as Tesla did. The advancement / trick would be skip that step with the right engineering principles. The reason to epoxy the cells I presume is to keep the cells from moving/shaking/damaging each other?
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  • Nov 12, 2013
    qwk
    Yes, I would say that they do exactly that. Back when they assembled the original packs in Palo Alto, they had a special setup to measure, and assemble the bricks with cells that were as closely matched as possible.
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  • Nov 12, 2013
    marco2228
    I wouldn't do that. If a cell has been deeply discharged and you bring it back to life with some special charging technique, small, sharp materials (e.g. copper) can dissolve out of their usual place. If you then keep using the cell these materials can damage the separator and cause an internal short in that cell, which in turn can cause fire.
    Well, I don't know cells from the chemical point of view and don't know how high the possibilities are, that the cells would actually fail, but I wouldn't take that risk and with 6831 recovered cells in a car, I simply won't feel good.
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  • Nov 13, 2013
    hcsharp
    Yeah, cell matching is critical. It would take a lot of work to develop all the tools that would be needed. Not to mention figuring out how to test the various circuit boards and other components in there, of which we know nothing. I'm starting to appreciate why it costs 40k to trade.

    Good to know - I always assumed that if you could get them back up to 2.5v without catching fire that they would then be OK after that. I've recovered a few Li-Ion cells that were over-discharged and they all worked fine for a couple years after. I don't know the chances of forming sharp dendrites near the separator but what if it's more than 1 in 6831 like you said.
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  • Nov 20, 2013
    marco2228
    Does anyone know if there's a used 1.5 PEM for sale anywhere?

    The car is quite naked right now.
    2013-11-17 17.57.45.jpg
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  • Nov 20, 2013
    mnx
    Looks awesome. Put the seat back in and you'd have an awesome track-toy. :) I'd love to do that to a Roadster or Model S.
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  • Nov 20, 2013
    jeremyz
  • Nov 21, 2013
    marco2228
    Haha, you are not the first one with that idea :D

    Thanks, I' already in contact with him.
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  • Nov 21, 2013
    jeremyz
    marco2228, what kind of damage do you see in the PEM? I would guess that some of the circuit boards are broken in the area where your PEM was squished. Have you asked Tesla about just buying the damaged circuit board(s)? I'm sure they're going to say no and that the whole PEM is a monolithic part (which seems like BS to me).
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  • Nov 21, 2013
    vfx
    The first few years of Tesla there were only a few Tesla stores (they were service too) and service would have to send all battery repairs to Tesla headquatrers. Tesla had built a new car with all new technology and had designed and built the machines to test them. Of which there was only one of each. Battery balancing was (and is?) only done by Tesla's main service and would take days.
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  • Nov 29, 2013
    marco2228
    No, they don't sell parts of the PEM separately.
    Unfortunately the 1.5 PEM is WAY more expensive, than the newer ones or even the Sport PEM here in Europe.

    Tried to find and solve the error, changed two mosfets on the damaged PCB. The errors became less, but the motor still doesn't turn.

    Well, a new 1.5 PEM is simply too expensive at the moment. I can get the complete drivetrain (motor, PEM, gearbox, wiring harness) and even interior from a 2.5 Sport for 500 Euro more than a refurbished 1.5 PEM. Dimensions should fit, but then it's not a signature anymore;)

    So I'll probably wait for a damaged car or a used PEM.

    Took the car a bit further apart. now it's as naked as it will get.. so let's start rebuilding it :)

    2013-11-26 14.16.16.jpg
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  • Nov 29, 2013
    Pantera Dude
    Cool picture! It's nice to see so much of the car.
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  • Dec 6, 2013
    marco2228
    Good progress so far.
    All parts except to the passengers door needs to be painted. So I'll just have the whole car painted.
    It needs to match the brown/black interior...

    IMG_1759-1.jpg
    Black is still on top of the list, because the car was in this color before. But there are more possibilities... grey, brown??!?
    I guess I need some input / suggestions:D

    Thanks
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  • Dec 6, 2013
    asgard
    I would stick with the stock color, if you are trying to preserve history :)

    Regarding the PEM - when I was choosing my CPO, I spent some time with the service
    folks at Tesla Menlo Park choosing between the vehicles. The 1.5 PEM was designed using Mil-spec parts, including the
    power electronics, connectors and wires. They even had one opened up for refurb and showed me the mil-spec cables.
    This thing is designed for a tank :)
    How much are they asking for a 1.5 PEM?
    �
  • Dec 6, 2013
    wiztecy
    I agree with asgard, stick with the stock colors to preserve it. Especially since someone famous owned it, any pics that later come up with him in it will add more value to it when represented with the same color.

    How did you fix the damaged Carbon Fiber in the rear? That section is one piece? Did you reconstruct it or order a new piece from Tesla?

    Yes the 1.5 PEMs are built tough. Hence where the cost savings went into the 2.x PEMs which are not built as tough.
    �
  • Dec 6, 2013
    bart513
    Wow the car looks great so far!!!!!!
    �
  • Dec 6, 2013
    marco2228
    Thanks, I think black is a nice color for the car. wiztecy, you might be right regarding the value of the vehicle.

    I ordered a new carbon fiber sill (the big part at the side of the car) and was extremely lucky not only to find a used door quite cheap, but also with the same interior color. The lock, which is attached to the roll bar damaged the interior of the original door a bit.. could be fixed, but this is way easier.

    The sill is one piece. It goes from the trunk lid to the front fender.

    Changed the lower and upper left, rear wishbone, strut and the aluminum bracket under the ESS where the lower wishbone had been torn out of.

    Was really surprised, how many used parts one finds. Especially because there have only been three 1.5's in Germany, officially.

    Well, the only things I bought from Tesla is the subwoofer, carbon fiber sill and roll bar. The roll bar only had a minor damage, but it's better to change it, because it's one of the most important parts for safety...
    Ok, I just recently ordered the trunk lid hinges and cross tie (left, rear) also.


    one more thing... Does anyone have information about the "Interior Sound Reduction Kit Stage 2"? There are no informations about this kit in the web, anymore.
    Now, as the car is almost torn down, I think it's a good idea to isolate it... Already isolated the composite plastic backwall behind the seats from the outside with some styrofoam/fiberglass sandwich, but want to use the stuff, which Tesla uses for the rest of the cabin.

    Edit: just found it myself.
    �
  • Dec 6, 2013
    brianman
    I really like those seats.
    �
  • Dec 20, 2013
    Adam Solar
  • Dec 20, 2013
    PV1
    I'm really glad someone is putting this amount of attention to detail in repairing this Roadster. It was pretty awesome having it for the weekend at the car show last January, and it really saddened me to see it sitting in that salvage lot (I was tempted to pull the service plug when I was there, especially with the pump running in cool weather). Being that it's in Germany now means I'll never see it in person again, but I'm really happy that it is being repaired and will hopefully be on the roads again soon. I have some pictures of #34 when it was at the car show in Pittsburgh, and when it was at the salvage lot. Please upload pictures during repairs and when it is complete.

    By the way, I'm pretty sure that PCB error mentioned earlier was the LED ring. That's an error message it gave me when I tried to start it, "charge port door must be closed before vehicle can be started."
    �
  • Jan 23, 2014
    marco2228
    Thanks:)

    @PV1
    What error did it show in the salvage lot? Powertrain error? This was probably due to the damaged service disconnect. There's a small switch in the socket which detects if the disconnect is inserted properly.
    The LED ring doesn't cause any error, it's just there as a charge indicator and doesn't give any feedback to the car.

    BTW: The car got upgraded to Founders Series:D IMG-20140122-WA0001.jpg
    �
  • Feb 24, 2014
    marco2228
    Tesla only sent the Founders Plate by accident, I won't put it on the car, of couse:D

    Well, no update for a long time. Have been busy with the PEM repair and some other things. But after several errors and some weird errors like only being able to drive in reverse, the PEM is finally working again.

    Today I put in the new rollbar and bulkhead. If my painter sticks to his schedule, the car should be back on the street in two to three weeks from now. 2014-02-24 14.41.46.jpg
    �
  • Feb 24, 2014
    wiztecy

    Awesome Job Marco! While your at it, change out the stock brakes for CarboTechs and also remove the old brake fluid, clear out the lines, and put in new clean stuff. I'm sure that brake fluid is long over due and has a good bit of moisture in it. I also removed those silly sun visors, you get more visibility without them.
    �
  • Feb 24, 2014
    hcsharp
    That's amazing that you were able to repair your PEM! Nice work as usual! Can you provide us with any details? What was wrong with it? What parts did you replace? We all have to be mindful of the fact that the PEM contains parts that wear out. Thanks again for sharing your progress.
    �
  • Feb 24, 2014
    PV4EV
    .. a whole new career for Marco beckons! It wont be long before most of the Roadsters fall out of warranty.

    Did you take any photos of the PEM undergoing surgery ?? I'd love to see one stripped down.
    �
  • Feb 24, 2014
    Jaff
    Nice job Marco!...Psst, please let us know when you fit the liquid cooling units for the motor and PEM and get the 0-60 times down to 2.5 seconds...many of us will be beating the proverbial "path to your door..." :wink::smile:
    �
  • Feb 25, 2014
    marco2228
    Thanks for sharing your ideas:)
    I called CarboTech in the UK, today. Their brakes have too much performance to be street legal in Germany:D
    Well, I think my front brakes might have been upgraded already? They have "AP Racing" written on them. Is this the stock front brake in the 1.5 Roadster?
    Frontbrake.jpg

    Good idea to remove the sun visors, as I am 1.93m tall. I'll probably just pull them off their mounting and put black bushings around the pins so I can put em back on, if I want to.

    Ok, some photos of the PEM.

    This is the charging area in the PEM. You see the bent and twisted PEM case.
    Charge circuit.jpg

    This are two of the three power stages
    Power stages.jpg

    The circuit board on the left is the brain of the PEM, on the right the fan controller for the PEM and motor fans.
    DMC & Fan control.jpg

    There have been several errors, but this is probably the most interesting one.
    This photo shows one of the three power stages. You can see the IGBT's on it. 21 of the 28 were dead. Because of the manufacturing tolerances, the IGBT's which are connected in parallel (four groups of seven) have to be matched. Because it's hard to measure in the circuit and the ones that still seemed to be good might have been damaged too, I replaced them all.
    Damaged IGBT's.jpg

    "Measuring device" to match the IGBT's at 55 A current.(that simulates a PEM output power in the car of >250 kW)
    Testsetup.jpg

    New IGBT's at their new job (not soldered in properly at the photo)
    New IGBT's.jpg
    �
  • Feb 25, 2014
    PV4EV
    Thanks for the PEM pictures - fascinating .. But not sure why a replacement PEM is $17,000 (as told by service dept ..)

    Meanwhile heres a photo of my Roadster 2.5 front brakes on day one of ownership. But I do not know what was standard on a 1.5.


    [?IMG]
    �
  • Feb 25, 2014
    marco2228
    Ok, thanks. That looks quite similar.

    Haha, I had some thoughts about that and almost bought a 2nd PEM to try it, but than the seller raised the price for the PEM by 100%. Well, he's still sitting in the PEM.
    If he'd drop the price again I'll put that PEM in the car, so I could play around with the repaired PEM.

    The main problem with liquid cooling is that the heatsinks of the power stages for the three phases have to stay electrically isolated. Another idea would be CO2 cooling...
    �
  • Feb 25, 2014
    jeremyz
    Marco, that's great that you got your PEM working again. IGBT's have progressed along way since that Roadster was designed. From a few minutes of looking, you can get a single 1200V, 300A IGBT for less than $150. If you want a real beast of an IGBT, you can you get a 1200V, 1000A IGBT for $650 (http://theelectrostore.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/cm1000ha-24h-powerex-new.html). To put it in perspective, 1200V * 1000A is 1608.6hp.
    �
  • Feb 25, 2014
    tom66
    Wow! I'm amazed by how few IGBTs are needed for such high power. What IGBT do they use? I'm quite surprised they did not use high power IGBT modules. The Megapoles are so compact - I can now see how Tesla managed to fit them all into the Model S' cylindrical drivetrain assembly. With some IGBT upgrades, higher battery voltage, and of course liquid cooling, you could easily pump out 350kW over all three phases with a similar design. I bet they're in a triangular arrangement and the circular case is just for cooling and packaging efficiency.

    I'm really impressed by the engineering in the PEM. That looks absolutely top class professionally engineered. Not a single bodge wire! On something they made fewer than 3,000 of, that's pretty rare...!

    One of the things that is interesting is I see a TI DSP for the motor control, but I was half expecting a secondary monitor processor for safety. Perhaps that Xilinx device (CPLD/FPGA?) is a hardware interlock to prevent the DSP going out of control.

    Also interesting how the Megapoles appear to be similar between phases; looks like you could swap them around for test purposes.

    I'm quite surprised there isn't any glue around the larger components and SMD caps - kind of surprising as they can be vulnerable to vibration and fall off the board. Also, they didn't use automotive rated components: just 105�C standard in most cases. If the PEM is aircooled, this might work out well (well, for anything not switching 200kW+ that is...)

    It'd be really nice to see some close up chip shots to understand what each part is :)
    �
  • Feb 25, 2014
    hcsharp
  • Feb 25, 2014
    wiztecy
    Really, its illegal to have good brakes in the UK? That's the craziest thing I've ever heard in my life. The CarboTech BobCat 1521 were designed for the street, I'm running the AX6's which are the track pad. Roadster owners who've switch to either are very pleased and its a night/day comparison over the stock Brembos that have a terrible time stopping the Roadster. They're also dusty as a muck and that also contributes in their stopping power even worse. So how would they know that you swapped them out, does the UK have vehicle inspections every year? If its a matter of just ordering them, order them in the US and have them shipped out. Or you could have one of your forum friends send a set out to you.

    As for the brake calipers and the AP Racing branding, my 1.5 is equipped with the same ones.
    �
  • Feb 26, 2014
    mg012
    CarboTech brakes

    Where did you get your CarboTech brakes? Do you have specific part numbers for the Roadster?

    thanks
    michael
    �
  • Feb 26, 2014
    Doug_G
    Front Carbotech CT 109L AX6
    Rear Carbotech CT 491L AX6

    Got mine from 949Racing, but it's probably just as easy and faster to go directly to Carbotech.
    �
  • Feb 26, 2014
    spaceballs
    From what I can tell the current IPM/IGBTs do not match the smaller high switching IGBT's that Tesla uses.

    �
  • Feb 26, 2014
    tom66
    Large hybrid modules also can't match the speed of many-parallel IGBT arrays, which is probably why Tesla used this setup. Looks like the drive waveforms are sent into two groups individually, which makes sense, to reduce the gate capacitance the driver ICs have to charge/discharge.

    In quantity, Tesla was probably buying each IGBT for less than $5 a pop, which is far cheaper than a single IGBT half bridge module ($400 ~ $1000+ per unit) even if you need 28 IGBTs...
    �
  • Feb 26, 2014
    qwk
    The roadster uses 84 IGBT's. At $5 a pop, that is still only $420.
    �
  • Feb 26, 2014
    tom66
    Yep, indeed - part of Tesla's low cost technology.
    Also, it looks like every part on that board is commodity, off the shelf. Compare to the Prius, for example, which has a large number of custom Toyota chips.
    �
  • Feb 26, 2014
    qwk
    Yes, this is really a great thing, because it allows much easier DIY repair of electronic components.
    �
  • Feb 26, 2014
    jory
    for low (unit) volume applications, i'd consider using one of the variants of 3M flourinert as the cooling fluid. i've previously utilized it as a pressure compensation liquid (in conjunction with a bellows) for the electronics compartment of an deep sea oceanographic instrument i designed/deployed many years ago.
    �
  • Feb 26, 2014
    Doug_G
    Right, for IGBTs and MOSFETs it's very important how you drive them. It can actually take quite a bit of oomph to drive them fast and hard enough; otherwise they partially conduct and dissipate a lot more power. They really like to be all the way on, or all the way off. Anything in the middle just generates lots of heat.
    �
  • Feb 26, 2014
    hcsharp
    What's the typical solution to drive lots of stacked IGBTs? Opamp or ??? Based on the article in Tesla's blog (which has a picture of a 2.x PEM) they are switching at a frequency of 32 kHz. That's enough to generate a lot of heat.
    �
  • Feb 27, 2014
    tom66
    A dedicated IGBT driver IC, such as http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irs21850spbf.pdf

    These combine the level shifting and high current output drive in one IC, the driver typically floating up to VBAT above ground.

    The rest of the ICs on there will probably be checking for anomalous states such as both channels turned on at once and supply voltages dropping low causing poor conduction.
    �
  • Feb 27, 2014
    lolachampcar
    jory,

    I too used Flourinert to make a version of our tablet for diving. It worked wonderfully simply using the 10" diagonal display cover glass as the bellows (but then we were looking at 150' or less) :) Neat stuff.
    �
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