Jun 17, 2016
calisnow This result surprised me. Quoted text is below. Link is below that. The new E-class hitting showrooms shortly has been trumpeted as having the most advanced technology. It has five cameras, five radars and 12 ultrasonic sensors - vs Tesla's current 1 camera, and one radar and 12 ultrasonic sensors. Despite this hardware superiority, Nick Jaynes writes yesterday in Mashable that Tesla's lane keeping is still more accurate and reliable than Mercedes. Those of you who recall the Car and Driver comparison test in February will remember that Tesla's first 7.0 Autopilot build had an error rate over 50% less than Mercedes' 2016 technology. Now we are discussing Mercedes' next-generation, much ballyooed semi-autonomous system about to hit the streets:
"With one eye on the road and another on a tiny green steering wheel icon emblazoned on the display in front of me, I watched as the all-new 2017 Mercedes-Benz E-Class drifted across the yellow lane marker. Just as the lefthand tires crested the line, the car proceeded to buzz the steering wheel to warn me, the driver, of an unsignaled lane departure.
"Oh, don't give me that," I hollered at the car, as I grabbed the wheel and jerked the mid-size luxury sedan back into the lane. "You're the one doing the steering!"
Now back in my lane with the Mercedes mostly keeping itself in check, my heart sank a bit.
I felt disheartened because Mercedes' new suite of semi-autonomous safety tech, Drive Pilot, simply didn't feel as robust as Tesla's Autopilot that I had tested on the very same stretch of freeways some eight months before.
During my test, the Model S was able not only able to stay planted within its lane, it also stayed almost perfectly centered in that lane. Comparatively, the E-Class struggled to even keep itself in a single lane � forget hopes of holding dead center."
"
On a straight, well-marked freeway, following traffic ahead, the system worked great. However, as soon as lane markings on either side became too hard to read or simply dropped away, Steering Pilot would cut out � sans warning.
Really, the only indication the car wasn't steering anymore was that the little steering wheel icon on the instrument display would go from green back to grey. If I didn't notice this because I was paying attention to the road ahead, like I am supposed to, I could suddenly and rapidly find the car drifting out of its lane. This happened to me several times over the two days I tested it."
Mercedes-Benz's 2017 E-Class won't let you nap behind the wheel�
Jun 17, 2016
30seconds Love the author's conclusion - The E-class has autopilot as good as the Tesla, but MB didn't want to activate it.
Yes, that's the ticket.�
Jun 17, 2016
hill Yep . . . our ride is far superior, and some day we can explain how & why . . .
meanwhile, princess Diana was killed in an MB, while you have to go over a 300 foot cliff to kill your self in a Tesla, because a high speed head on with a Honda Accura just won't do it . . . that simply kills the occupants instantly in the Honda, while the Tesla driver survives.
Thanks for that some-day-maybe benefit, MB.
.�
Jun 17, 2016
davidc18 Nagging every 60 seconds. Thats exciting.�
Jun 17, 2016
Vitold I'm sure there's a word for it: interaction in which a car enjoys inflicting physical or mental suffering on the driver, who derives pleasure from experiencing it.
Perhaps the strongest argument for that MB did not mean to be this bad is that they did not give it's random failures a name (such as Attentive Driver Detector System)�
Jun 17, 2016
mkjayakumar Don't worry MB will do an over the air update next month and fix everything and make it better.�
Jun 17, 2016
jeffro01 So MB intentionally crippled their own system because it doesn't feel like humans are responsible enough to use it??? Wow... Just wow... I didn't know MB was big brother... What's the point of all of that sensor\camera\radar technology if you're going to cripple it???
Jeff�
Jun 17, 2016
SR22pilot I doubt in the US. Don't state franchise laws prevent that? Don't they force you to go to the dealer?�
Jun 17, 2016
jeffro01 I think it was a sarcastic joke...
Jeff�
Jun 17, 2016
Spidy There aren't that many videos, but for example this German guy seems to be pretty satisfied with the system:
(4:40 & 9:00)
This shows the driving a bit better, unfortunately they guy didn't really understand he just had to touch the wheel and not actually take over. Later he gets it but had not 100% figured out a little touch every 1-2min is enough.
Really can't notice anything like
�
Jun 17, 2016
Vitold The article said:
I guess roads in Germany are better than in USA.�
Jun 17, 2016
LargeHamCollider This strikes me as wildly implausible. I think the obvious state of things at MB is that their system kinda sucks due to weak software. There's absolutely no plausible way that they crippled their lane keeping, it's just that their lane keeping isn't that good.�
Jun 17, 2016
calisnow My theory is that European roads are much better maintained than American roads - better markings. Teslas are built in California - which has some of the worst roads in the United States (our state doesn't spend enough $ maintaining our roads). And so, perhaps the neural networks Tesla trains are forced to learn on much worse data - and can thus handle worse conditions.
I see you say you are from Germany - if you have not yet been to California you cannot imagine how poor our roads are here.
One more data point on European-developed autonomous cars - Volvo. There is another article a few months ago which states that the CEO of Volvo was in Los Angeles recently, demonstrating a self driving Volvo to our city's mayor and a reporter. The reporter wrote that the Volvo kept making mistakes until finally the CEO actually lost his temper and shouted to L.A.'s mayor "Why don't you paint your bloody roads!"�
Jun 17, 2016
calisnow Yeah I just watched the video you linked to in 1080P - in California we can only dream of beautiful highways of the quality of that video. On many sections of our super highways the lane markings are faded, discolored, moved, etc.�
Jun 17, 2016
mikeash This can't be serious. He must have misunderstood something. Right...?�
Jun 17, 2016
Saghost This is the scary part. No warning or notification when it cuts out?
In aviation we always make very explicit turnovers, so each pilot always knows who is in charge of the airplane. With an Autosteering system and/or Adaptive Cruise Control, it seems like this is really important to make happen in the car, too. Tesla gave us some clear tone and IP messages, at least.[/QUOTE]�
Jun 17, 2016
jcaspar These releases always amaze me at how far behind the Germany automakers are...�
Jun 17, 2016
S?XY P100D MB screens don't show what the car's autopilot is detecting. Quite scary IMO. Tesla's autopilot on the other hand shows this very clearly.�
Jun 17, 2016
xav- The 133 is a toll road actually but that section is free. So sad for those 2 folks who passed.�
Jun 17, 2016
xav- In the end it's all about software.. But still tesla's hardware seems rather outdated now.�
Jun 17, 2016
GoTslaGo Guess they hadn't seen this lane assist hack on an S class
�
Jun 18, 2016
Spidy But can Autopilot actually drive in such conditions? I always thought it needed either lane markings or a car to follow.
The only thing that I thought was really bad about that part was that as other have pointed out there is no warning when it disengages.
Also Mercedes is testing in California, I guess most people have seen this video:
And some of the final testing was done in Nevada so they should be more than familiar with US road conditions.
�
Jun 18, 2016
Shawn Snider Is the guy in the video like 7ft tall? why are his knees nearly touching the steering wheel? My dad used to say "hey look! no hands!" while driving with his knee..�
Jun 18, 2016
Cosmacelf The car dropping autopilot and not telling you (except for a color change icon) is a HUGE problem. Tessa's system is barely acceptable in that regard, at least it gives you a chime (that can be obscured depending on how loud the kids are yelling), but not giving you any warning at all? That's actually MORE dangerous, which is quite a feat for a safety system.
Anyways, the bottom line is that Tesla's Autopilot is unique in the world, and still miles ahead of the competition.�
Jun 18, 2016
Krugerrand How can the hardware be outdated when it does more than vehicles with much more hardware? I know there's a section of the population who thinks bigger is better (and every other version of that; more is better etc...) Part of Tesla innovation is doing more with less. If there's currently no need for a billion sensors, radar and cameras to get the currently best AP on the market, then there's no need to add cost to the car (which will be handed down to the consumer). I'm quite sure when Tesla is ready to take the next AP step, they'll adjust the car's hardware accordingly, but don't assume that'll mean having more related hardware than any other OEM car.�
Jun 18, 2016
Just a Reader Well, the only person who had bothered to wear a seat belt in that Mercedes survived - despite colliding at high speed with a concrete pillar, which happens to be somewhat less yielding that an old rust bucket.�
Jun 18, 2016
Cosmacelf This is OT, but yeah, it always bothered me that the crowd Princess Di ended up hanging around with thought they were too cool to wear seat belts. The only person to wear one was the button down Buckinham palace bodyguard who no doubt took his job seriously.�
Jun 18, 2016
SR22pilot I got that but wanted to point out that the franchised dealers stand in the way of over the air updates.�
Jun 18, 2016
Johan Of course MB is using the best software they have: otherwise the safety systems wouldn't be at their best, which is really the only important things and the thing that's controlling the layer below the convenience features ("Lane keeping" is the convenience "Avoid crashing in to cars next to us" is the supposed "safety feature" but they are basically the same function.�
Jun 24, 2016
KZKZ The E-Class Drive Pilot appears to do a lot more than Tesla's Auto Pilot.
The Mercedes will brake fully autonomously for a stationary car, or pedestrian. Even if the driver starts to brake, the system will automatically provide up to full braking to avoid an accident plus will flash the rear brake lights to warn other drivers.
The braking for crossing cars or bicycles is sort of cool too.
What I like about Mercedes' approach is they are very clear and specific about how the system works and at what speeds.�
Jun 24, 2016
LargeHamCollider Lol, we've got a Merc fanboy here.�
Jun 24, 2016
SR22pilot Maybe he is someone who just believes that others can do good work too. I wouldn't be surprised to see companies leapfrogging each other for awhile as we move to fully autonomous systems. I also expect to see cases where car A is bette rat one thing while car B is better in another area. As an example one car might be better at lane keeping while another is better under emergency braking situations.�
Jun 24, 2016
KZKZ Well, to be accurate, its more like an 'autonomous braking for stationary vehicles and pedestrians' fangirl.
I don't really care which manufacturer does it, but right now MB is the only one I've found that has a comprehensive semi-autonomous product.�
Jun 24, 2016
Spidy Not just stationary cars though.
1h16m30s�
Jun 24, 2016
Beryl Glad to see the competition. Too bad it is an ICE.�
Jun 24, 2016
Todd Burch I drive about 20-30 miles a day on surface streets using autopilot (along with another 15 or so on the highway):
Autopilot works pretty well when lane marking drop out. I cross large unmarked intersections every day on autopilot and usually have no problem. Even if the intersection is in the center of a curve, it does quite well.
If you're on the highway and the lines drop out, it will use:
1. Any cars in front to help guide.
2. Any contrast it can see in the roadway to help hold the lane.
3. Holistic path prediction (predict the future path of the roadway based on current curvature).
These three things combined help the car get through very difficult lane marking conditions.
The threshold to initiate autopilot is higher than the threshold to maintain it. In other words, it will hold a lane in conditions worse than when you'd be able to engage autopilot.�
Jun 24, 2016
mkjayakumar That's correct. Over the last many months it seems to have gotten lot better on surface roads. Still a bit goofy with those white dots.
It is almost near 100% perfect on decently lane marked highways.�
Jun 24, 2016
mkjayakumar Great animation from Mercedes. I love it. Puts Disney to shame.
I would agree with you that Telsa is several generations behind in making such cool animations. All they do is make cars with some real cool technology that I use everyday. Big deal.�
Jun 24, 2016
Boatguy Our roads are bad and getting worse, in part due to no changes in the tax in many years and increasingly efficient cars which pay less and less tax per mile. Unfortunately we're now contributing to the problem, driving 5,000lb cars and not paying any road taxes at all. The state is testing a system to tax drivers based on something other than how much fuel they buy so I think we can expect such a system be implemented in time for the Model 3.�
Jun 24, 2016
xav- Note your key word there.
Currently that is the case. But we are talking about a $70k+ car here, not a $500 cell phone. People intend to keep this for many years. There will be a point where current autopilot hardware will not be sufficient anymore.�
Jun 25, 2016
KZKZ I agree completely and would say the hardware for the AutoPilot has just been seriously leap-frogged by what Mercedes has for sale today.
Specifically, does the Model S/X have stereo cameras, or a rear-facing radar? I don't think they do.
I'm not sure about the forward facing radar that comes with Auto Pilot, does it have both a long-range radar and a forward multi-mode radar like illustrated below?
![[?IMG]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/blogger_img_proxy/AEn0k_svV1xXWwJ6G00KhCEoPGpYr4lzuTwSwH3eRZ4PO3SOuSZVN3wbNgOtDWup_fNlrh1OR0Hw5YSqiSkGpv3rdzCAE5idGkG9CbWTnty_AY4pKIK-CAogANnW4mcQSP2zVvL6uEg8rGzMrOSerkVwUMRICKObSPAMAhJO1lgzAYC-9dxDGTOnf-vwZQA=s0-d)
�
Jun 25, 2016
mkjayakumar And yet I bet more millions of miles will be driven by Tesla AP than that of MBZ's�
Jun 25, 2016
Krugerrand Note what statement of yours I replied to: In the end it's all about software.. But still tesla's hardware seems rather outdated now.
So 'currently' Tesla's hardware is NOT outdated regardless of how much the car costs or the fact it's not a $500 cell phone. SOME people will keep the car for many years and at the end of those many years SOME of the car's (hardware) technology will be 'outdated', but will still be a very functional car. Kind of like hand crank windows are outdated (which I have on my 11 year old car).
SOME other people will sell/trade in their car when/if AP 2.0 or 3.0 or whatever requires a new suite of sensors, cameras or radar.
�
Jun 25, 2016
KZKZ I think Tesla's AP hardware is outdated for people like myself who are still shopping for a vehicle. I have a reservation for a M3, and received the 'why wait, get a S60 now letter'. I'm confident the M3 will have stereo cameras, but the S60 doesn't yet, so why buy into a system that is about to be replaced with something vastly more capable?
In retrospect, I'm sure Tesla wished they had installed the stereo cameras to begin with. Subaru has had stereo cameras on the market since before Auto Pilot came out. It's not like it a new technology or anything.�
Jun 25, 2016
mobe In Missouri we pay an annual alternate fuel tax of 75.00 to make up for the gas tax.�
Jun 25, 2016
Todd Burch My take is that Tesla's steering tech is the most advanced, and that their software is most advanced overall, but agree that the current hardware is behind other offerings. I expect the Model S will have fresh autopilot hardware prior to Model 3 production.
The good thing for Tesla is that the hardware is mostly a commodity. If they have the advance in the software, that will keep them in the lead.�
Jun 25, 2016
xav- Are you a Tesla engineer? I just have a hard time believing that they could not bring enhancements to the autopilot in the near term if they had additional cameras.�
Jun 25, 2016
zambono The minute they release a different set of autopilot hardware they will have to code and adjust for both, twice the work. They will only release the new hardware when they believe the first has run its course. AP is very capable and having more sensors won't make any real difference in the near future. One can't currently put an address in the nav and have the vehicle go there on its own, and adding all of Mercedes sensors won't do that either.�
Jun 25, 2016
LargeHamCollider I don't think there's any doubt that MB has better hardware, but from the reviews their software is much less capable and their system as a whole is inferior and much less usable.�
Jun 25, 2016
Spidy Which reviews did you find that compared it to a Model S. I actually have a surprisingly hard time finding any Drive Pilot reviews at all. Autogef�hle was the only one apart from the one in the first post where it seemed like the person doing the review had actually driven both.�
Jun 25, 2016
LargeHamCollider Mainly the Mashable one in the OP but autoblog and others have mentioned E-class limitations.�
Jun 25, 2016
Todd Burch I think Car and Driver did a comparison of systems that included Model S and a Mercedes model as well, and the Tesla came out on top by a big margin. (Actually, I'm not 100% sure it was Car and Driver or that it included Mercedes, but I think it did).
Most incredible part is that the review was done BEFORE 7.1, which as we know is a significant step up from 7.0.�
Jun 25, 2016
stopcrazypp The Mercedes hardware sensor suite was always superior to the autopilot hardware suite in hardware count (I believe someone linked a comparison before that shows it had way more cameras and sensors; edit: stereo camera and 5 radar sensors vs Tesla's 1 camera and one radar sensor), but that turned out irrelevant given Tesla's software is far superior (and at least from early reviews, still appears to be superior to the most recent version). And given unlike Tesla, the auto manufacturers don't have a habit of updating old cars to the latest and greatest software, if you buy a competitor's car today, it won't catch up in software during your ownership.�
Jun 25, 2016
stopcrazypp Here is the Car and Driver article in question mentioned by others:
Semi-Autonomous Cars Compared! Tesla Model S vs. BMW 750i, Infiniti Q50S, and Mercedes-Benz S65 AMG - Feature�
Jun 25, 2016
golfingBuddha I've been trying to say this for a while but nobody seems to believe me. I find it sad that people keep telling others to "wait until it is fully autonomous" as if a new hardware suite will suddenly solve those issues.
Tesla is heavily invested in a single front facing camera suite. It is also heavily invested in keeping production costs down in order to make a mass market EV.
It is entirely possible that autonomous driving is a solved problem with the current sensor suite and high definition maps made possible by the katrillion bits of data they have.
I literally salivate at the thought of having access to all of that sweet beautiful data... It makes me feel all mushy inside.�
Jun 25, 2016
Todd Burch Elon has already mentioned that the current hardware is insufficient for autonomous driving. For one, there are no redundant systems, which are a must. Two, a rear-facing radar is essential.�
Jun 25, 2016
MarkS22 I have a 2016 Mercedes with superior hardware (stereo cameras, more radar) and its lane keeping is horrible. Embarrassing really. I was waiting until the first reviews came in to comment, but I highly doubted they'd make a large advancement in one year. Case in point, I got the car in manufactured in May 2016 and the firmware was still referencing features that "Will Stop Functioning December 2015." Huh?
The sensors are a commodity. The software is everything.
Mercedes excels at independent safety features that are essentially islands: PreSafe. Automatic Emergency Braking with Pedestrian Warning. Attention Assist. Active Blind Spot Assist. The new PreSafe Sound. That's because these can be tested independently for very specific uses. It feels like different teams are all working on features and just add them as they're ready. Autopilot feels like it's being developed holistically. Lane keeping and speed control are seamlessly integrated with a visual display of what the car "sees." It's all working together as one.
A major problem is that Mercedes has no OTA update infrastructure, which is needed to keep refining such an integrated Autopilot-like experience. I've said this before, but you literally have to schedule a 1 hour service just to upgrade navigation maps.
The legacy makers are at a severe disadvantage. There's an interesting book called "The Innovator's Dilemma: When New Technologies Cause Great Firms to Fail." The overall conclusion is that "it is actually the same practices that lead the business to be successful in the first place that eventually can also result in their eventual demise." The service network and expertise in ICE, once huge benefits, are anchors that will pull legacy care manufacturers down. The brand loyalists expect, for example, certain engine noises or designs that are no longer relevant. So, these massive companies are tasked with maintaining old customers on old technologies while trying to innovate... but start to fail at both compared to an upstart that only has one focus. Tesla is a great example of how you're likely better off starting from scratch at this point. (I expect their first true competitor to be the likes of Apple, Google, or another startup.)
There is a major disruption happening and many current ICE car manufactures will be devastated, if not bankrupt, in the coming decade.�
Jun 26, 2016
Spidy That's the S-Class not the new E-Class. The E-Class it miles ahead of the S-Class. S-Class did not even have something called Drive Pilot.
In some parts it might have superior hardware, but in others it might not. The new E-Class has a completely new electronics architecture compared to whatever car you have, so overall your car might not has a good hardware as the Model S or E-Class.�
Jun 26, 2016
Oyvind.H A norwegian magazine recently tested the Model S up against the brand new E-class. It`s in norwegian, but the pictures explains most of it
�
Jun 26, 2016
zambono Like some have mentioned regardless of hardware if the Mercedes system is not up to par it will more than likely remain that way till they introduce yet another model in 4 years, or another set of hardware and software in another vehicle. They are not going to do OTA updates since will be overly cautious about liability and a reputation to maintain. Having a legacy can definitely be a drag.�
Jun 26, 2016
zambono OUCH Mercedes, you released that S*&!�
Jun 26, 2016
KZKZ I hope it isn't correct that Tesla is going to sick with a single front camera.
I still think the M3 will have stereo cameras and even expect the S/X will have them before the M3 even arrives.�
Jun 26, 2016
KZKZ I'd be interested to see how stereo cameras and additional front radars would work in this situation.
�
Jun 26, 2016
mkjayakumar The car can be decked with all sorts of sensors like Christmas lights in a Vegas street, but at the end of the day it should drive in a way that will make you comfortable and relaxing, so that you end up using it more often and help reduce the stress.
Since I drive mostly in highways I recon I am driving close to 80% of my time in my S with AP turned on.
When MBZ gets to that state I will give them a second look whether they have 2 sensors or 24�
Jun 26, 2016
LargeHamCollider Nailed it.�
Jun 26, 2016
stopcrazypp I know that is the older version, but I linked it given others mentioned it. And from the reviews posted so far, the new version doesn't seem like a huge leap over the old. The hardware is similar and the software doesn't seem like a huge improvement.�
Jun 26, 2016
ggr Where was the driver in this car? If he had been paying attention, it wouldn't have happened.�
Jun 26, 2016
Spidy I'm just find it slightly annoying that everyone speaking of reviews when I have a hard time finding any and nobody seems to be able to link any videos.
That comparison from Norway was the first one posted here so far and honestly I would not even engage a lane keeping feature on such a road because I would find it more stressful to wonder if the car makes the next turn without going on or over the center line instead of driving myself.
Priorities for me are safety systems, stop&go traffic and highway driving, not some windy country roads.
And even watching the video from the article which says the system isn't great the car does a perfect lane change right at the start into a lane with bad markings.
�
Jun 26, 2016
Boatguy A picture (or 8) is worth a thousand words.�
Jun 26, 2016
MarkS22 We'll it's the new 2016 GLC model (replacing the GLK) with Driver Assistance Package, Premium Package, and Advanced Parking Assist. It definitely has stereo cameras and more radar. It also has 360 surround video (for parking visuals, not automated functions).
So, no, this isn't the 2017 E-Class, but it is a refreshed 2016 model with more sensors than the Tesla. Even mBrace (which has been out longer than the Model S) is a disgrace. Remote Start fails nearly 50% of the time (look at the reviews in the app stores... 92 reviews and 1.25 stars out of 5) and takes upwards of a minute from an iPhone in an area with good 3G/LTE reception. As I've noted elsewhere, they are excellent mechanical engineers. Built extremely well. The seats are more refined and adjustable on even this lower-end model.
BUT, they have a LOT of work to do on UX/UI, integration of self-driving/safety function, and OTA upgrades.�
Jun 26, 2016
KZKZ [/QUOTE]
I don't understand why this result from a semi-autonomous vehicle would be considered acceptable.
I can understand the driver's situation because the Tesla is slowing down automatically, then all of a sudden starts to speed up. I'm sure the driver was caught off guard with the unexpected behavior from the AP.
I would expect fully autonomous braking in this situation, not for the vehicle to speed up. I'll wait for AP2.0.
Does anyone know what type of pedestrian detection AutoPilot provides?�
Jun 26, 2016
KZKZ That would be awesome if the E-Class autonomous system gets installed on the C class of vehicles in 2017 or soon after! That's more my price range. I'm sure its just a matter of time.
Does your 2016 car provide autonomous braking in emergency situations?�
Jun 26, 2016
MarkS22 Yes. Full automatic emergency braking with pedestrian detection. They're options but the safety aspects have benefits over the Model S. Lane keeping with Distronic/Lane Assist. Meh.
(BTW, I personally have the GLC but my in-laws have the S-Class so I'm familiar with both.)�
Jun 26, 2016
golfingBuddha It is not acceptable but you don't actually know the circumstance which led to this. For example, it is my understanding that this car was not actually on autopilot but was only on cruise control. ;-)
Like I said previously. be careful making your decisions based on random things posted....�
Jun 26, 2016
golfingBuddha When autopilot is not engaged they wouldn't really help...�
Jun 26, 2016
golfingBuddha People have to understand that fully autonomous driving is not, in and of itself, a thing yet. There is currently ALWAYS a human involved. Whether it is a human driving the car next to you or the human sitting behind the wheel. We all make mistakes. While I am not saying there WON'T be new hardware, what I am saying is that it is not necessary. Redundancy in safety critical software can be accomplished in a number of ways. You could have 5 complete and independent systems like in fly by wire jets but that doesn't mean it is necessary. We are currently at a place where there is significant interplay between the human and the autopilot. That is not going away any time soon and new hardware will not resolve that gradual change which occurs as much in our own psychology as it does on the car. If the car has a gas pedal, steering wheel, break, etc.. Then there are human factors to consider.�
Jun 26, 2016
stopcrazypp That situation (a car moving out of lane revealing a stationary vehicle) is the Achilles heel of practically every ACC system and is explicitly mentioned in ACC user manuals as a situation the system will not brake for. So actually it should be expected behavior if anyone bothered to read the manual.
I posted this last year:
3 day old import P85D crashed while using TACC
It is unclear if the new E-class system accounts for this situation (I would have to read the manual, but it is not posted yet on Mercedes' site).
However from the early reviews, the answer is likely no, given how it handles (or doesn't handle) merging cars:
"With the Mercedes DISTRONIC system and steering pilot, the car does a great job in straight-line traffic. It�ll accelerate and brake all on its own, and adjust the wheel in order to keep in its lane. But watch out if someone wants to merge.
Each time I had a slow, merging car approach the E300, the car didn�t see it�at that point, the driver had to take control and accommodate for another car entering the lane.
The lack of sensory for merging cars was a problem throughout the camp, and myself and the other journalists were told that �it�s still an assistance system and you�re still in charge� as the driver. When another car merges, the driver needs to be in control."
http://jalopnik.com/2017-mercedes-benz-e300-mercedes-made-an-e-class-bette-1781983204
You can ask as similar question, is�
Jun 26, 2016
KZKZ Fully autonomous braking should definitely work with TACC. The TA part means traffic aware, and being "aware" of traffic to me would include stationary traffic. The auto steer portion doesn't even come into play in this situation. Other manufactures have autonomous braking without regard for the cruise control being on or off.
What I've read in other threads on this site from Tesla experts is that the hardware that comes with AP can't properly discern stationary items well enough from the "background noise" to brake for them. I'm not sure if that's the proper way to describe it, but that's my interpretation of what's been posted here.
Having only one camera, and only one mode of radar means the AP system can't confidently identify a stationary object from the background noise until the ultrasonic sensors come into range. By then, it may be too late to stop as appears to have happened in this accident.�
Jun 26, 2016
stopcrazypp Well this interpretation of ACC is wrong to say the least, and is quite a dangerous expectation if you have no experience with ACC systems. ACC systems in general do not respond to stationary vehicles.
Here are some examples I previously posted:
Mercedes-Benz E-Class: Tips for driving with DISTRONIC PLUS - DISTRONIC PLUS - Driving systems - Driving and parking - Mercedes-Benz E-Class Owners Manual
System limits - Active Cruise Control with Stop & Go function, ACC - Driving comfort - Controls - BMW 5 Series Owners Manual - BMW 5 Series | BMWManuals.org
Bonus from Volvo:
Adaptive Cruise Control � limitations�
Jun 26, 2016
KZKZ This video shows the performance I'm trying to describe I want from a semi-autonomous car.
�
Jun 26, 2016
stopcrazypp A controlled test environment is one thing, but the real world is another. The tests shown also do not have the situation described: the car was following a leading vehicle, which changed lanes, revealing a stationary vehicle, which may only partially be in the lane (off to the side, not the center), as in the van crash. All the tests shown have the system stopping in front of a cardboard cutting of a vehicle in the center of the lane.
Again, would have to wait for the E-class manual to see if it has a similar exclusion.�
Jun 26, 2016
golfingBuddha You are making a lot of assumptions here, which aren't really based in fact.
1. "Traffic aware" means stationary traffic." -not true, and explicitly described in the operating manual as not being true
2. "The auto steer portion doesn't even come into play in this situation." -If I were in that driver's situation I would a. reduce speed, b. change lanes. This is what an autopilot should do as well. However, autopilot wasn't activated.
3. "What I've read in other threads on this site from Tesla experts is that the hardware that comes with AP can't properly discern stationary items well enough from the "background noise" to brake for them." -The classification of someone as an expert is a huge assumption.
4. "Having only one camera, and only one mode of radar means the AP system can't confidently identify a stationary object from the background noise until the ultrasonic sensors come into range." in case you are interested. http://www.mobileye.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/VisiobBasedACC.pdf
Finally, nowhere in here have you mentioned highly accurate and traffic aware navigational maps and you seem detached from the fact that a human was still in control of the vehicle. If you want a car that will completely drive itself and you want to wait for that. That is fine, you should not get the current car. However, the assumption that some additional hardware will suddenly make that possible is just incorrect. There are a lot more factors at play here. We have no idea as to the intent of Tesla or the methods which Tesla's engineers are deploying to achieve the goal of fully autonomous driving. What these guys have done up to this point is nothing short of incredible from an engineering and software development point of view.
The bottom line is, the current car is fantastic. It's driver assistance features are incredibly sophisticated and capable under the direction of an attentive driver. The future is complex from a psychological, legislative, and engineering perspective. There is always more than one solution and the people Tesla has working on their solution are some of the best in the world. Enjoy the car while they make their magic work. ;-)�
Jun 26, 2016
KZKZ What I actually said was "Fully autonomous braking should definitely work with TACC. The TA part means traffic aware, and being "aware" of traffic to me would include stationary traffic."
I am describing the features I want if a car is advertised as a semi-autonomous vehicle. Its obvious from the accidents posted online that Tesla chose not to have that feature, I get that. To me its enough of a deal breaker I wouldn't proceed with an M3 (or up sell to the current S60)
I hate to say it, but TACC is just the same old ACC that has been out for years and years. TACC doesn't seem to do anything more than ACC did when it came out so many years ago. That's why I've been saying they need to update to something better before the M3 launches.
The other problem I see with TACC and braking is that automatic braking ceases when the driver starts to brake. I like the implementation Mercedes and Volvo is using whereby the car will automatically provide maximum braking no matter what the driver does with the brake pedal. In the video you can also see the E-Class flashes the rear taillights to warn following vehicles....pretty cool.
The Mercedes and Volvo (and Subaru?) can do that because they're equipped with the hardware required to see stationary objects.�
Jun 26, 2016
MarkS22 Are you suggesting a single camera with radar is unable to automatically brake with a stationary object? Yes, it's one of the tougher challenges but you don't need stereo cameras or lidar to accomplish that.
As I've noted above, Mercedes has better (or at least more) hardware but a much weaker "lane prevention/tacc" combo. Where all those sensors really shine is dedicated safety like better blind spot monitoring and helping prevent/mitigate rear-end collisions.
Case in point, the flashing lights on the Mercedes is brilliant. Our GLC has this option. It also tightens your seat belts and brakes to prevent being pushed into traffic. Very, very slick.
On the other hand, Distronic with Lane Assist, even with stereo cameras and more radar, is nowhere near Autopilot.�
Jun 26, 2016
stopcrazypp This claim has been repeated, but is false. Automatic braking in the Tesla continues even after the driver applies the brakes. You have to press and release the brake pedal to disable automatic braking.
See page 86 in the manual:
https://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/model_s_owners_manual_touchscreen_7.1_das_ap_north_america_r20160112_en_us.pdf�
Jun 27, 2016
Spidy https://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/tesla_model_s_software_6_2.pdf
I guess they changed it then, but that's kinda the issue if you OTA everything or aren't careful when writing your changlogs and these things show up at the top of google.�
Jun 27, 2016
calisnow Wired magazine just released yet another bad review of the new Mercedes Drive Pilot. The question I have been chewing on is this: Why would Mercedes release such a crap lane keeping system? What does this tell about corporate culture? Remember, MBZ has been researching autonomous driving perhaps longer than any other automaker - they were experimenting back in the 1990's. They have serious AI researchers on staff and have had for some time. Yet they just released a crap system that can't stay in the lane and apparently doesn't know what it doesn't know - ie "I've lost the lane."
Mercedes must know their lane keeping sucks compared to what Tesla has on the road - Tesla's has been out for 9 months now and I'm sure MBZ has at least a few Teslas of their own. They know how accurate Tesla's system is. MBZ has tons of money. And engineers are not stupid people - they know that the real accomplishment is interpreting input to make good decisions (i.e. don't leave the lane by accident and at least be aware when you do) - not throwing more sensors on the car.
Yet they released this thing anyway. Why?
Was it too far in the dev cycle once Tesla released Autopilot in October for Benz to change course?
Here's a fresh article on the MBZ system in Wired - link is below:
"The problems crop up when the system fails to immediately and clearly convey what�s going on. Over two days of driving and riding hundreds of miles around the Monterey Peninsula, Big Sur, and Silicon Valley, the car�s decision logic repeatedly left me wondering who was in control, whether it knew what was truly happening, and what would happen next. Merge spots proved particularly tricky. In one case, the car didn�t seem to recognize there were two vehicles converging ahead of us, charging forward until I hit the brakes. This in spite of the fact that I was told the vehicle�s sensors scan in all directions. So if there were any protocols in place preventing any action, I wasn�t aware of them. In several turns on the road, the car plowed straight ahead with no apparent awareness that it may have lost track of the road�s arc, sending me toward either a wall or oncoming traffic. Each time, I saved it at the last second and put us back between the lines, where it happily took over as if nothing had happened. To the car, clearly, nothing had�though it was obviously no longer behaving appropriately.
The dashboard�featuring an artful graphic representation of the road in an array of colors and varying degrees of opacity�proved little help. A small green steering wheel icon lights up when the Drive Pilot system is on, along with a button on the steering wheel�not an obvious, helpful system for telegraphing the car�s current awareness and intentions. Did some subtle colors change, or lines harden when things started to go awry? Not that I saw�which is to say, it wasn�t obvious. So when do I jump in? Who was in charge?"
Mercedes�s New E-Class Kinda Drives Itself�And It�s Kinda Confusing�
Jun 28, 2016
mkjayakumar I suspect part of the excellent lane keeping and most importantly the smooth TACC Tesla has is directly due to the fact that it is an electric drive as opposed to a clunky ICE. With an electric drive, you can control extremely fine movements and I am guessing that helps.
If that is the case that MBZ and all ICE manufacturers are toast.�
Jun 28, 2016
chillaban That's not true at all, unfortunately. Not all ICEs are "clunky". For example, the Lexus LS and Mercedes S-Class are all judged to be extremely smooth and even measured to be quieter under all circumstances except full throttle. Mercedes Distronic also performs extremely smooth throttle and brake adjustments -- sometimes even smoother than MS's slightly aggressive distance changes.... it's just that the system is designed differently: First off, it's not meant to be anticipatory to slow cars outside of your lane moving into your lane. Its distance regulation is strictly defined to regulating the distance to the car in front of you. It's unclear how this detail has changed in the 2017 E class versus the current gen S Class, but based off all the initial reviews about how poorly the car responds to slow cars merging into your lane... it sounds like it hasn't changed.
Furthermore, "Steering Pilot" is not meant to be autosteer, but instead more Autocorrect-Steer. That is, the car requires that you steer, but while you're steering, it will constantly mess with your steering resistance such that the wheel gravitates towards what the car thinks is center. It's quite different from the Autopilot/Autosteer philosophy, where basically while the car is steering, you have almost no influence to the car's desired path except by disengaging Autosteer entirely. The Mercedes one is meant to make constant minor corrections to a human-chosen steering path, not steer entirely on its own.
Don't get me wrong, the Model S is a great car, I absolutely love mine two weeks in. But this is my third luxury sedan in the > $65,000 range, and I've shopped plenty of high-end flagship ICE vehicles (like the new BMW 7 series, the A8, S Class), and I can assure you, the word clunky is not used to describe them. They are every bit as smooth and serene as an EV, perhaps more so if you're young like me and can hear high frequency switching whine.�
Jun 28, 2016
mkjayakumar Thanks chillaban. Your insight is appreciated.�
Jun 28, 2016
golfingBuddha From a developer's perspective it seems obvious that the reason Tesla is so far ahead is
1. They don't have a traditional model year cycle.
2. They provide over the air updates
3. They have a system in place to collect massive amounts of driver data and use it to identify edge cases, refine their software, and then (see #1 & #2).�
Jun 28, 2016
mikeash I'd also add: 4. They are building a brand, not protecting it.
Tesla is basically a big startup, in "go big or go home" mode. They're trying to build something amazing and are willing to take risks along the way. A company like Mercedes has a huge established business to protect, and this will naturally make them much more risk-averse.
I'm always amazed that Tesla was willing to put Autopilot out there for regular drivers with such advanced capabilities and so few limitations. I really love that they have! But I'm not the least bit surprised that other companies are reluctant to do so, even if they may be fully capable of building it.�
Jun 28, 2016
chillaban
I think a lot of it is that their legal team is more ballsy in trusting customers with these features and trusting that a boilerplate "you're ultimately responsible" text is enough.
For example, the German cars have supported automatic parking in Germany since some 2011 model years but even in 2017, those features are mostly not offered in the USA with the exception of two models from Mercedes and BMW respectively. And you can find plenty of Youtube videos of a prototype S class doing quite well at city driving in Europe, including roundabouts and correct right-of-way decisions�. but what they offer in production is nothing more than a driver assistance package.�
Jun 29, 2016
KZKZ According to the latest manual, AEB will not bring the car to a complete stop, it will only slow the car by 25mph, then it releases the brakes.
The brakes are released? How can that be a safe design? The German designs are so many light years ahead of this.
When Automatic Emergency Braking has reduced the driving speed by 25 mph (40 km/h), the brakes are released. For example, if Automatic Emergency Braking applies braking when driving at 56 mph (90 km/h), it releases the brakes when the speed has been reduced to 31 mph (50 km/h). Automatic Emergency Braking operates only when driving between 5 mph (8 km/h) and 85 mph (140 km/h).�
Jun 29, 2016
chillaban Automatic Emergency Braking is an assist system designed to grab your attention and buy you more time to make a proper decision�. When your car beeps and engages emergency braking, hopefully that's a cue to take control and continue to brake the car. In no circumstance with today's cars (from any manufacturer) is it intended that you can just watch the car do all the emergency braking for you�
In reality, the reason for this is likely that a sudden 25mph deceleration due to a false alarm or overzealous collision alarm is far less dangerous than bringing the car to a complete stop, which can even subject you to G forces that make it difficult to apply the correct inputs to the steering wheel and so on.
I've had two cars before my current one with the more advanced German collision avoidance systems that are capable of fully avoiding an accident without human intervention. I agree they are nice, and particularly beneficial if the driver is incapacitated, but I don't think the real-world difference is very big. The biggest value-add is warning the driver of an imminent crash. From that point on, the driver ought to be able to decide whether to brake or swerve.
P.S. The Germans misstate/overrepresent things in their manuals all the time. For example, the Audi system is supposed to recognize pedestrians but I've never had that trigger despite some close instances thanks to thick pillars. It's also supposed to recognize stationary cars by a camera but unlike Tesla where that works 95% of the time, in the Audi system it basically only recognized gray/silver colored previous-generation Mercedes E Classes. I've had one particularly scary activation of the emergency braking system while making a left turn, and it misrecognized the car in front as suddenly stopping instead of making a U-turn. It skipped the audible alert and brake jolt and directly slammed on the brakes and brought my car to a full stop and nearly resulted in a collision with the car behind me. To make matters worse, pressing harder on the throttle did not override the car, so I remained stopped for a good second after this incident�. I had to let go of the gas and then press it again to resume moving my car.
It was that last incident that taught me that the car suddenly applying full braking without warning knocks the wind out of you, and the G forces are quite startling and make it difficult to regain control of the car until it lets off on the brakes.�
Jun 29, 2016
stopcrazypp Actually their manuals are generally accurate on the limitations of the system (they will have disclaimers about the system not working in certain situations), but the advertising and demos on the other hand may not be.�
Jun 29, 2016
xav- I can't imagine the Germans to catch up anytime soon with the autopilot. Too much bureaucracy, too old. I think nobody will ever compete until new start ups like tesla emerge or until Google and Apple step in.�
Jun 29, 2016
chillaban You're absolutely right. They do have disclaimers about the limitations of the automated collision system, including the most important one: Don't rely on the automated emergency braking to avoid a collision -- always apply the correct input yourself even if you're just confirming that the car is correctly braking.
But I also agree: Some of the ads (not just from the Germans) depicting AEB systems and other driver assists (blind spot monitoring, lane departure warning) are straight up fantasies. They seem to make you believe that you can just close your eyes and your car will stop in a safe spot every time... when in reality no system on the market delivers on that dream.�
Jun 30, 2016
KZKZ Actually, the E-Class will autonomously brake all the way down to zero without intervention.
The clue to drivers is the warning tone and visual alerts. If the driver doesn't brake, or more likely doesn't brake hard enough, the vehicle will take over.
The 2017 E-Class is the first and only car to be licensed as a fully autonomous car in the State of Nevada. The E-Class that is licensed is running different software than the public version, but the hardware is exactly the same. The hardware in the E-Class is much more robust than the Tesla and much more capable (rear looking radar, multiple radars looking with significantly further and wider views of the road ahead and intersecting roads, stereo cameras, etc. Volvo is releasing fully autonomous cars in Sweden next year.
I agree I don't ever see any established company like Mercedes or Volvo releasing Beta software on consumers. At least not when safety systems are involved.
Mercedes-Benz E-Class Granted Autonomous Driving License in Nevada
Mercedes Granted License To Test Autonomous E-Class In Nevada�
Jun 30, 2016
KZKZ That is not correct, a Automatic Emergency Braking is not "an assist system designed to grab your attention". An Automatic Emergency Barking system is a system designed to automatically bake the vehicle in an emergency.
Collision Warning Systems are "an assist system designed to grab your attention".
One comes before the other. If the AEB is already engaging because the driver is distracted, there isn't adequate time to "grab the attention" of the driver and have that driver assess the situation and figure out what to do.�
Jun 30, 2016
chillaban AEB systems are absolutely supposed to grab your attention in addition to buying you reaction time and also reducing the severity or preventing a collision. Even the Mercedes one, though it's capable of bringing the car down to a much lower speed, only is meant to kick in when a collision is inevitable. And It will not kick in for every kind of collision, especially those involving much slower cars suddenly cutting into your lane.
Out of curiosity, how many cars have you owned with radar/LIDAR guided automated emergency braking?�
Jun 30, 2016
KZKZ Not to be argumentative, but AEB systems are involved after the Collision Warning System has already activated.
The CWS is the system that is supposed to "grab your attention" as you say. If you ignore the warning, then the AEB activates.
For reference, here how the US Gov't defines the two systems:
2.1.2 Collision Warning Systems
A CWS assists a driver in preventing or mitigating a rear-end collision by presenting auditory, visual, and/or haptic warnings (i.e "grab your attention").
2.1.4 Autonomous Emergency Braking
AEB refers to a component of forward CAS that autonomously applies brakes in order to prevent or mitigate a collision. AEB is typically activated after a warning system alerts a driver about a potential rear-end collision and the driver fails to respond. The AEB may apply either partial or full braking force, or cascaded braking, which is the application of partial braking followed by full braking force.
http://www.ntsb.gov/safety/safety-studies/Documents/SIR1501.pdf�
Jun 30, 2016
golfingBuddha First of all this is a 100% demonstrably false statement. Nevada has been a testing ground for tons of autonomous vehicles including freightliner semi trucks. The only 'first' is that the mercedes is identical to the 'current production model' in hardware design.
Second, it is not permitted for autonomous driving. It is actually only permitted to test exactly what everyone's tesla is already doing.
"Self-driving tests are permitted on all interstates and state highways in Nevada, human drivers being required only for turning, merging and departing. The autonomous test drives in everyday traffic will be carried out by specially trained test drivers. Nevada Department of Motor Vehicles (NDMV) rules also stipulate that there must be one passenger behind the wheel and a second passenger in the vehicle on test drives."�
Jun 30, 2016
chillaban I'm not trying to be argumentative either, but after owning two cars with cascading AEB systems and being the kind of person who loves driving very aggressively in city traffic, I've been through dozens of CAS activations and a few AEB activations.
The definition by the US Govt only describes one sequence of events for the system. I've had two occasions where AEB activated at the same time as the auditory warning: One was a 1-second brake jolt when the car in front of me slowed down unexpected as I was making a lane change. The other was a totally unwanted full deceleration without warning while making a left turn. In both of these cases, the car didn't provide any early warning, so it's definitely not 100% true that AEB systems are involved after CWS. The initial intervention of the car can start at any stage and doesn't even always correspond to how the manual describes the system.�
Jun 30, 2016
KZKZ I'm comfortable with the Government's definitions of CWS and AEB system.
CWS is intended to be the "assist system designed to grab your attention"
AEB is a system designed to stop or slow the car to avoid or mitigate an accident.
That's not to say AEB won't grab your attention, I certainly hope it would.�
Jun 30, 2016
chillaban Sure, agreed. The only thing I'd point out from personal experience is that right now, if you find yourself in a situation where AEB activated, whether it's on a Tesla or a car with more sophisticated AEB systems (like any recent Mercedes or a Pre-Sense equipped Audi), you should absolutely take action yourself, even if it's just holding down the brake pedal. Don't just cross your arms and look idly upon the impending doom and assume the car's intention is to automatically brake to a full stop
So from a practical basis, auto-braking for 25mph is probably as good as auto-braking indefinitely. During the time it takes for your car to slow down 25mph, it should've bought enough reaction time for you to press the brake (and then emergency brake assist should take over and hold the brake pedal down with full force).
The only exception is, of course, if the driver is incapacitated and unable to brake�. Then, of course, a system without the 25mph limitation is a clear winner�
Jun 30, 2016
KZKZ Yes, the 2017 E-Class is the first production vehicle certified by Nevada to be an autonomous vehicle. It's using the same hardware as the production E-Class with tweaks to the software. The key point being the hardware is in place.
First standard production cars given green light for autonomous driving in Nevada
The Tesla hardware is just too limited for full autonomous driving. Even Tesla doesn't claim that it is and will also admit to the limitations of the current hardware in AP1.0.
I think the hardware in the 2017 E-Class provides clues to what will hopefully come with AP2.0.
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Jun 30, 2016
MarkS22 Clearly, you've never used mBrace. And I do consider remote start (with internal combustion and carbon monoxide), roadside assistance, collision notification, and SOS/Emergency to be important for consumer safety. Consumer autonomy will require a robust infrastructure with OTA updates and real-time data. I'm not impressed by company-only tech demos.
Source: My other 2016 car has mBrace and it can't even reliably remote start the vehicle in under a minute.�
Jun 30, 2016
KZKZ I wouldn't consider the remote starting of a vehicle a safety item. Putting Beta semi-autonomous driving software on the road is a different matter entirely.
I think the conservative approach used by everyone except Tesla when it comes to keeping your hands on the wheel and engaged with your surroundings is the proper approach.�
Jun 30, 2016
DrivingTheFuture Thanks for sharing this, I'm getting tired of those who keep saying "well other cars have autopilot too" .... it just isn't the same. Even Mercedes. And I'd wager it will be a while before they close the gap... Tesla's fleet learning is propelling it forward. I truly hope the recent autopilot death does not set the company back with false fears from the public or the NHTSA ... on the other hand it is scary that someone passed away while using autopilot, but reading the company blog it makes sense... a semi trailer pulled out perpendicular. My condolences and here's to a safer future...�
Jun 30, 2016
KZKZ The tragic Auto Pilot accident only reinforces Mercedes and Volvos approach to semi-autonomous driving.
Tesla released a beta version that can't reliably discern a stationary object due to a lack of appropriate hardware then Tesla allows that beta version system to operate without any human engagement for a very, very long time.
Tesla tries to cover themselves with a legal-ese in the owners manual. But then there is the wink and nod from the company, yea, go ahead and go hands free. If Tesla truly thought their system required hands on the wheel, they would have dramatically decreased the duration before a nanny warning shows up.�
Jun 30, 2016
Magus There is no way any current auto tech would have prevented this tragic accident.�
Jun 30, 2016
chillaban Agreed, and hands on the steering wheel has nothing to do with this accident. Tesla's Autopilot does prompt you very frequently to put your hands on the wheel if it's taking a turn that the car isn't confident about.
In this case it's more a matter of eyes on the road and feet on the brake than hands on the wheel.�
Jun 30, 2016
MarkS22 We do not know the cause of this accident yet. To make this assumption, without knowing any details about the reasons for the accident, is disingenuous at best. A life has been lost and you came here to post an "I told you so?"�
Jun 30, 2016
KZKZ Actually there is technology on the road that Tesla could adopt which would have prevented or minimized the accident.
For one, Tesla would adopt a system like Mercedes that requires your engagement with the vehicle every minute or less.
Secondly, the radar system in the E-Class can see 300 feet further down the road than Telsa's limited system.
Thirdly, stereo cameras and multi-mode radars can detect stationary objects in your path. In this case the object wasn't even stationary, it was moving slowly.
Fourth, a proper Collision Warning System would have alerted the driver to the danger.
Fifth, an advanced AEB system like the Mercedes E-Class works at speeds up to 155mph (yes autobahn speeds) would engage to minimize or avoid the accident. The AEB is the Tesla is very limited in its speed range as well as the amount of speed it will reduce.
Hopefully Tesla will now be encouraged to hurry along with the hardware and software upgrades necessary to make a safer vehicle.�
Jun 30, 2016
Magus Ridiculous. No way any auto tech right now or even if this accident was even preventable. If truck driver is at fault, what if a future self driving computer made the wrong choice to change direction and inadvertently head into oncoming traffic? There is no way Mercedes or Volvo tech would have prevented this. It comes off as really terrible chain of events. Even one of the Google cars had an accident with the multi tens of thousand dollars LIDAR tech.�
Jun 30, 2016
KZKZ Ridiculous? Really?
The E-Class can see 750' down the road and it can detect slow moving/stationary objects in its path. The Tesla can not see nearly that far, and the Tesla cant detect the stationary vehicle anyway because it apparently thinks its an overpass.
Many cars can stop from 60mph in less 120'.
I don't have any doubt the technology exists today that would allow a vehicle to brake and either greatly minimize or avoid the collision.�
Jun 30, 2016
Magus Yes I think your statements are inaccurate. I'm trying to find the Tesla radar range, but it is quite long. Truly the stopping tech is not great yet no matter how many radar units. Remember, Google cars have gone many fewer miles but not even LIDAR prevented all accidents and one in particular caused by google's car. Remember, this is LIDAR which is far superior to anything anyone can get publicly.�
Jun 30, 2016
Stoneymonster And yet Mercedes plasters the same disclaimers all over their manuals that Tesla does. Curious.�
Jun 30, 2016
Magus @stoney Yes. As said before if Tesla's system was more sensitive to stopped vehicles the odds of other types of accidents would be relatively increased. How many times are you in a freeway turn and there are vehicles at the light waiting to turn left? I am glad that it is not too sensitive! If in actual driving Mercedes is that sensitive I would be scared to drive. There were several times in a shallow turn crossing a light on. A freeway with vehicles on the right hand or left hand turns that collision warning came on, but avoidance did not kick in. THANK GOODNESS because the car would needlessly brake potentially resulting in an accident. There is a reason these systems are not sensitive to parked objects.
So the truth is Tesla's system does recognize stopped objects - it doesn't react to all of them because that may result in a worse outline.�
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