Jan 20, 2016
Chasedrgc1223 Just about 5 minutes ago, I was driving down a road with moderate stop and go traffic (autopilot engaged), and TACC either did not react quick enough to a car in front or didn't react at all. The collision warning beeped and I slammed on the brakes, and I'm sure it also triggered automatic emergency braking, and this is the first time I've actually had to slam on the brakes to the point of getting ABS to activate. This sounds very similar to the P90D owner who rear ended a vehicle recently with Autopilot engaged, and nothing like this ever happened prior to 7.1.�
Jan 20, 2016
msnow It does sound similar and I've had a couple incidents too. Suggest you email Tesla support and let them know the precise date and time.�
Jan 20, 2016
Pinarello I use Autopilot extensively and have not experienced any bad behavior. I have experienced the situation where the car you are following changes lanes and it takes a second for my Autopilot to acquire the vehicle in front of me. Realizing that AP is beta software, I do drive with the distance setting between 5 and 7. This gives me a comfortable buffer when jerks in front of me switch lanes suddenly because a car in front of them is at a stop or going extremely slow. Even in an ICE this can cause a rear end accident, but the AP reacts quickly and has always stopped with an adequate buffer.�
Jan 20, 2016
Todd Burch I've been paying close attention to TACC since that other thread was first posted. I still haven't encountered any issue with TACC seeing the car ahead.�
Jan 20, 2016
msnow I've got 3 AEB warnings since I installed 7.1 and all of them were false positives.�
Jan 20, 2016
JenniferQ I have had issues and near-misses like this recently. I never experienced these before in 7.0 or with my MBZ with TACC over the past few years. I am driving much more carefully after 7.1. I do not have the same level of trust I had for 7.0. It's as if I'm teaching another kid to drive already!:crying:�
Jan 20, 2016
Chasedrgc1223 Absolutely agree. Something has been broken here, and it's not very reassuring to know an update has reduced my trust in the car's driver assistance features.
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AEB events or just forward collision warning?�
Jan 20, 2016
maximus16 AP keeps wanting to side swipe cars for me..... I feel it pulling towards cars in other lanes and it's way to close for comfort.�
Jan 20, 2016
Todd Burch What following distance setting are you guys using? It seems like it must be pretty low if you're having near misses.�
Jan 20, 2016
msnow Forward Collision, sorry.�
Jan 20, 2016
msnow That's the thing, mines set at 6 but if I'm not using TACC and the car isn't picking up the car in front consistently it doesn't matter. I also changed my warning setting to "early" until this is worked out.�
Jan 20, 2016
2krazykats I've also experienced the too-close-for-comfort with TACC in city driving which is why I don't use it or auto steer unless I'm on the highway and I'm always vigilant to take over if needed. It's not the stress-free driving I've heard people say they've experienced; quite the opposite, in fact. It could just be due to my lack of experience with AP so far (only had the car 3 weeks and not a lot of AP driving during that time).�
Jan 20, 2016
JenniferQ Yep, mine is usually at 6/7. I have Collision Warning on 'Late,' but I think I will change it as well for now. 7.0 was much more relaxing for me. At least it didn't try to rear-end people. Just had to manage the curves and hold the wheel a little tighter.�
Jan 20, 2016
CHG-ON I have had no close calls. But I am hyper vigilant and tend to intervene if I don't think it is slowing as I would like. Though I must say that it is rare that I have to. It seems to work very well and predictably. I'll never trust it completely. It's way too early for that.�
Jan 20, 2016
Electricfan Do you recall what you had the following distance set to? It would help us understand your incident better.�
Jan 20, 2016
Chasedrgc1223 I've had it set to 2 since I got the car, and this is the first time I've been having any issues with it. I'll have to change my forward collision warning to "early" as well, as this is definitely more stressful than pre-7.1. I think I'm holding off from city driving too until this is fixed.�
Jan 20, 2016
Tdriver I read all the comments in this thread and I say "Gee, there must be a problem with the 7.1 software".........they I say "Wait a minute, I own an 85D with 7.1 and my car has behaved perfectly with TACC and AP." Soooooo, do some cars have cameras, and/or sensors that are not behaving properly.....did the software not get downloaded properly........is it driver error? Not sure what the real answer is but I am thinking the cameras/sensors performance is suspect. Weather was not mentioned in any of the comments but I would suspect it the least. I have to think the software was extensively tested before we ever got to use it......Tesla could not afford to do otherwise.�
Jan 20, 2016
JenniferQ I would think it's not driver error since all of us are comparing it to 7.0. I have emailed service to see if I should bring the car in for sensor checks, along with other misc service items outstanding.�
Jan 20, 2016
tmoz Me too. Seems like it is a bit slower to react to a stopped car in front, or that I've rolled the dice enough that I finally had to use the brakes. Also, it gets too close to the lane line for my tastes.�
Jan 20, 2016
GoTslaGo My wife has just been trying out the autopilot recently. Today she noticed that when she got on the highway with cruise control at 65 (speed limit) she could not get the autopilot to activate (gray, no blue). She also noticed that the speed limit sign recognized by the car was 45 mph (the road she was on, not the highway). I told her I thought it was the new update, that there was a 5 mph limit above the posted sign for it to work. Am I full of **** or is this correct? Has anyone else noticed this too?�
Jan 21, 2016
luvnMyTS Tesla strongly recommends the "EARLY" warning setting.
As far as close calls, the camera in front is the only thing that warns of cars stopped ahead. That camera can only see so far out in front. If you are barreling along a 50-60 miles an hour and coming up on stopped traffic, chances are, if you don't hit the breaks, the car is going to plow into those cars in front. At that speed, the camera cannot see far enough in front to react in time. At 40 miles per hour, it will usually catch it, but still slams on the brakes quite hard.
Then you have to consider possible reasons the camera may not see the car in front when it normally does. Glare from the sun or lights can affect how soon it recognizes stopped traffic ahead.
Bottom line, if you're using auto-pilot on city streets, you probably shouldn't be, but if you are, and you're coming up to stopped traffic, don't even bother testing auto-pilot. Just hit the brakes and slow as you would if you driving without it. It's certainly not efficient for the car to brake so late and not take advantage of regenerative braking. Auto-pilot is ALWAYS going to brake much later than you would or would feel comfortable with in those situations. Get used to just not using it or relying on it in those situations.
Not sure if Tesla can improve the camera's vision to see further out in front? But I have a feeling this will be an issue with auto-pilot as long as the existing hardware is used. I'm sure when 2.0 is released with new hardware, it will be much improved. Until then, don't even bother testing it. You're just wasting your brake pads and being less efficient with no regenerative charge back to the battery in those hard braking stops.�
Jan 21, 2016
Chasedrgc1223 Definitely was going less than 50mph and closer to 40, and it was nighttime without any perceived glare.�
Jan 21, 2016
isaax I've also had similar issues since 7.1 on the highway with traffic traveling at 65-70mph. If I ended up catching up to a slower car in my lane, my MS would not slow to keep it's distance. My TACC distance is always at 6/7. This never occurred while on 7.0 even for merging traffic like in the video link below from my Blackvue cam. TACC did not slow for the car. It's obvious in the video how much time I gave TACC to react before I intervened. The car was displayed on my dash LCD as a vehicle directly in my path. My distance was set at 7.
But hey, AP no longer likes to swerve towards an exit :biggrin:
20160115 233733 NF - YouTube�
Jan 21, 2016
RedSoxFan18 +1, happened to me twice yesterday during a long interstate drive from Hartford CT back to Maine.�
Jan 21, 2016
Majerus Just had to me this morning, which ended up with my car being rear ended. Normally I have my distance setting to 7, today it was 5 which may have attributed to the problem. AEB was set to early.�
Jan 21, 2016
Cosmacelf If I had to guess, it sounds like Tesla put in more code to do processing to do things like slow down for curves, don't take exits, etc. So the car computer is now busier doing more things and it is occasionally running out of time to process basic TACC. I could be wrong, but that's what it feels like to me...�
Jan 21, 2016
LetsGoFast This is now something like four reports of similar failures. I'm becoming convinced there is a newly introduced bug, based on the long history without these incidents on 7.0 -- in at least one case (the first accident), Tesla inspected the logs and sensors and eliminated sensor failure as an option.
I'm also dismayed at those who say that setting your follow distance to 7 is the solution. Not only do we have reports of failure when set this high, but in stop and go traffic, I find a setting that high increases the risk of accident due to the incentive for cars to dive into the gap between your car and the next.�
Jan 21, 2016
Chasedrgc1223 Oh man sorry to hear that... Definitely something going on with AP.�
Jan 21, 2016
electracity Is that true? The forward looking radar is normally the primary crash prevention system.�
Jan 21, 2016
msnow I'm sticking with software bug as the most likely culprit. I have adjusted my settings from car distance of 4 to 6 and collision warning from the middle setting to "early" to be safer. Just keep an eye on it.�
Jan 21, 2016
garygid With 7.1 (2.9.154) using AP on the freeway, I changed lanes into the leftmost of
two exit-only lanes, and flicked the AP stalk down fully once or twice to drop
5 or 10 mph. These are long exit lanes, and all going well as expected.
As the car approached the section where the lane bends slightly to the right
to make room for a narrow v-shaped island with crash barrels and the beginning
of the physical barrier between the exit lanes and the freeway lane, instead of
just continuing in the exit lane, my car tried to swerve into the narrow V, toward
the crash barrels.
Since my hands were holding the steering wheel sufficiently to feel any steering
efforts made by the AS, I was able to correct and get the car back on course.
However, my passenger made a major exclamation, mostly indicating
a desire to live, I suspect.
So, at this stage of AP software development, either stay highly vigilant
or just do not use it. The life you save could be somebody you love.�
Jan 21, 2016
Andyw2100 What does this mean? If you're not using TACC, the car isn't in any way in control of speed, or in any way responsible for preventing you from rear-ending someone. Forward collision warning and AEB are safety-net features. not features to be relied on. With TACC engaged, the Model S software --SHOULD-- regulate the car's speed, and keep you safely behind the target car. So I have no idea what you are expecting when you write "I'm not using TACC and the car isn't picking up the car in front consistently."
Really sorry to hear of this.
This is the most logical guess / explanation I have heard yet. (In addition, of course, to the very real possibility that all the incidents have been some variation on user-error.)�
Jan 21, 2016
msnow It's as I've told you before the collision warning comes on unexpectedly without TACC and with TACC I've had two instances of it losing the car in front of me (one more since the last time you asked me about the details of this). The collision warning was also a result of the car not picking up on the car in front until very late.�
Jan 21, 2016
byan1232 How do you set your warning setting?�
Jan 21, 2016
davidc18 Yes, this is a new feature of 7.1 to prevent the bad behavior seen on youtube. The problem is that the car does not really know where it is and which speed limit signs correlate to the road you are on. Lots of comments on this in other threads.�
Jan 21, 2016
Andyw2100 This part I understand. You are getting false positives on the Forward Collision Warning system, right?
But is that what you meant by "isn't picking up the car in front consistently?" Because if so, it was your wording that confused me. I would call this "reacting to things that are not there."
Again, I think it was your wording, when you wrote "but if I'm not using TACC and the car isn't picking up the car in front consistently it doesn't matter." You made it sound like you were expecting your car to pick up cars in front of you and do something about it even when TACC was not engaged.�
Jan 21, 2016
Majerus Go to controls, second tab, driver assistance. Its at the bottom. The same page that all autopilot settings are under.�
Jan 21, 2016
msnow Was speaking from the perspective of the sensors. Main point to remember; as others have noticed, the sensors are not locking on consistently to the vehicle in front and I'm getting false positives on collision avoidance. Just be mindful that's my only purpose in posting my observations.�
Jan 21, 2016
calisnow What about the forward facing radar? Doesn't that contribute to sensing obstacles in front such as stopped cars?�
Jan 21, 2016
Chasedrgc1223 I'm nearly certain it uses the radar for distance and secondary detection, and the camera is used to detect what the obstruction is and where (identifying trucks as trucks and things like that)�
Jan 21, 2016
calisnow It does sound logical but the Mobileye CEO said in his talk last year (link is here on TMC somewhere) that the Eyeq3 is using only about 10% of its processing power in its current application. He made it sound like there is tons of computing headroom.
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Well I hope there is still much optimization and AI which can be engineered into the software with the current hardware. On the other hand development might slow down/stop for this version of AP if they are pouring their resources into programming 2.0 in the "lab" at headquarters.�
Jan 21, 2016
tstafford I've experienced TACC aggressively approaching stopped traffic at a light several times. Each time it has happened in the same location. And each time I have taken over rather than gutting it out to see if it would slam on the brakes. The road is a five lane non-divided 45 mph limit. The light is at the bottom of a dip in the road. My guess is that the sensors can't handle the approach angle to stopped cars in the dip eventhough I can see them plainly. I can't be sure that the car would actually rear end a stopped car at the light but the speed is too much for me to not step in and brake.�
Jan 21, 2016
Chasedrgc1223 TACC used to make me squirm on close stops which only occurred on highways. Even though it would get very close (and even give me a forward collision warning sometimes), I still trusted the car and let it stop. After this update and specifically this incident, I don't think I will trust it with approaching stopped traffic anymore, and I definitely don't have the same level of trust I did on 7.0. I desperately hope an update goes out to improve stopped vehicle detection.�
Jan 21, 2016
rxlawdude Curious. I have only found 7.1 to be an improvement from 7.0. Why are some suddenly seeing the opposite?�
Jan 21, 2016
Chasedrgc1223 I have to admit, initially I did find it to be an improvement, especially in how it slows to a stop and follows cars. That is, however, until it began to not detect cars and/or not detect them quick enough.�
Jan 21, 2016
spcarso Same here rxlawdude. In California, we have horribly faded freeway lanes and 7.1 is much better at keeping me in lane. SO much better. Also, 7.1 seems much better at keeping me away from cars on the freeway compared to 7.0. Then specifically about braking with TACC enabled, I haven't seen any difference between the two. Just wanted to chime in that if it were software based we should all be experiencing the very same thing. (FYI - Car distance always set to 6, and warning on Early.)�
Jan 21, 2016
thegruf Just a thought - has anyone who is having problems with 7.1 tried a full reboot to see if this makes a difference?�
Jan 21, 2016
BrokerDon Same experience for me in SoCal.�
Jan 21, 2016
jeffro01 I would agree with this statement FWIW. Had to take a long'ish round trip drive today to the south bay and overall found 7.1 to be much better at keeping it's lane, not hugging the concrete median and when it did drift to close to a vehicle beside me, recognizing that and moving over slightly. I also had no issues with TACC failing to see what was in front of me and adjusting the speed, including coming to a full stop, accordingly based on my set cruise speed and TACC distance setting (it was on 4). I did have one odd quirk with auto steer that was interesting, 101 was curving around a stretch and the car clearly was seeing the lanes but it simply didn't turn so I had to intervene. It's odd when the lane departure warning goes off when you're not the one in control of the steering... I didn't have any traffic on either side of me so I let it go to see if it would actually turn much longer than I would have had there been traffic, as it never turned... The lanes were marked with botts dots which the car was clearly seeing so I have no idea why it didn't turn. At least with 7.1 it knew the lanes were there which is an improvement over 7.0 when it couldn't detect the botts dots at all.
Jeff�
Jan 21, 2016
bradhs I've driving about 700 miles on 7.1 so far and I feel it is better than 7.0. There are a few areas where I had to take over, for example it got too close for comfort in the right most lane on 5 South where there was a construction barrier wall for about 1/4 mile.�
Jan 21, 2016
Chasedrgc1223 I have tried multiple reboots as well as power cycles and nothing different. I think an important distinction to be made here is Autosteer vs TACC. I think we can all agree that 7.1 has improved Autosteer in terms of tracking lane markings and keeping some distance between lanes, but for me as well as many others, TACC has been negatively impacted, which can be seen in the instances mentioned in this thread.�
Jan 21, 2016
Majerus I had to this morning prior to my accident. The cars audio was lagging out as well as touch controls. I then filled a bug report using the voice command as this is the second time since 7.1 has been install I have had to restart the MCU�
Jan 21, 2016
Andyw2100 Nope. Some people believe 7.1 has changed for the worse in this regard as well:
Elon: The AP Lane Keeping Bias to the Right is Not Safe, please fix!�
Jan 21, 2016
Todd Burch I believe the lane biasing is not better, and in many cases worse (after all, I'm the OP of that thread).
Control/smoothness in curves is better.
Staying straight vs. exits is much better.
Ability to see lines in low contrast situations is better.
Nagging is worse (get too many nags when it's not needed).
Staying straight passing through intersections seems a little better.
Staying straight when cresting hills is worse.
I have still not seen a single issue with TACC slowing me down approaching another car.
For the post above with the dashcam video where the car was merging in the highway and the driver had to take control, that looks exactly how it was in 7.0...and 6.2 with TACC as well.�
Jan 21, 2016
Andyw2100 I had meant to watch that video earlier, but got distracted. Thanks for reminding me!
Watching that video, I actually think that may be normal, improved TACC behavior, and I agree with Todd, to a point. I'm just not sure TACC worked that well back in 6.2, and I know it didn't when it was first released, but at some point between when it was first released and now Tesla improved it as follows, and I think that is what we see in the video.
When TACC was first released it didn't seem to take into account the speed of the car in front of you when deciding if it needed to slow down or not. All that mattered was the distance, and the speed your car was travelling. So, as an example, if a car passed you, and then immediately cut into your lane, even if it was travelling much faster than you, TACC would slow you down briefly, until the distance between your car and the target car had increased. At some point Tesla adjusted this, such that if it was obvious that the car was travelling faster than you, and that the distance between the cars would be increasing, the Model S would not unnecessarily slow down briefly, simply to maintain some preset mandatory gap.
In the video above, the car entering the highway is accelerating. By the time the driver manually slowed the Model S down, the two cars were probably travelling at close to the same speed, as evidenced by how quickly the car in front pulls away. I think the TACC software was accounting for the other car's speed and possibly even rate of acceleration, and not slowing the Model S unnecessarily, allowing less of a gap than normal, because it was only going to be for a very short time.
I definitely see this as an improvement in TACC over the way the first iteration functioned.�
Jan 21, 2016
Todd Burch Andy, agree. To clarify what I meant:
In 6.2, TACC didn't really account for the car's speed in front. If it passed you and pulled into your lane in front, the S would brake or regen because it was trying to strictly maintain following distance, even if the lead car was moving faster. Just as you say.
7.0 introduced a vastly smoother TACC, Which finally accounted for the leading vehicle's speed and allowed following distance to be smaller for a period of time while it gradually adjusted back. (7.1 improved this further and is outstanding at this, IMHO).
What I meant RE TACC having the same behavior as in 6.2 is that if a car is merging into your lane in front of you, it takes a moment for TACC to start tracking it for speed adjustments. It still does in 7 and 7.1, but is better now.
Even though it's better though, it's still not immediate so it's a good idea to always intervene when someone cuts in front of you and their speed is more than a few mph slower than you.�
Jan 21, 2016
drsaab I think it is now worse in stop and go traffic. If the car in front changes lanes it wants to follow that car and if it doesn't follow it , it will dart ahead to the next car in front in the same lane. If it does not see it fast enough there can be an accident.
On highway speeds it seems about the same as 7.0 since it uses lane markers over following the car in front like it does at very slow speeds.�
Jan 21, 2016
Chasedrgc1223 I was hoping nobody would bring up the autosteer conflict thread. I just didn't want to get into it in that post haha!! I've been following that thread too, but it seems as if people here see more improvement than harm.�
Jan 21, 2016
jeffro01 Odd, I haven't seen that behavior at all in 7.1. The car accurately has tracked cars coming in and out of my lane without darting or aggressively breaking. Situations like these are highly circumstance based so it's possible your circumstances have been different than mine.
Jeff�
Jan 21, 2016
qqragoon Agreed on the lagging. After 7.1 update, I feel sometimes multi-tasking (audio, auto parking, summon, live backup camera) lags the system. only use AP on freeway so far no incident happened on TACC as other people described on freeway.
- I had an audio control not working incident right after an interrupted auto-perpendicular parking. The CID decided reboot itself to recover the audio control.
- Also had a backup camera "crash" (see image below) after a manual stopped summon from remote control. I had to manually reboot the CID to get the backup camera bak in normal image. It's interesting to me they cut the image in half before display it? ...�
Jan 21, 2016
JenniferQ This makes a lot of sense.
After a long drive today, I think I have figured out a bit of it. In 7.0, when I had Autosteer and TACC, or 'AP', activated on some residential roads, I remember one time it tried to follow a car as it made a 90� turn. Iirc, others had the same issue.
I think that now when on a freeway in FULL AP MODE (Autosteer and TACC engaged) it's doing the same thing. Several times in stop-and-go traffic lately it's turned the car in front blue and then tried to follow it as it changed lanes. I have to keep a firm grip on the wheel to override this. Additionally, I think that the right-lane bias is making it 'think' that cars in the right lane are actually in its lane and that's causing the weird braking issues.
Imo, this is a big setback from 7.0. I still love this car and can't wait to drive her everyday, but I really also hope that the patch comes very quickly to fix these serious issues. I feel like I knew 7.0s bugs and could manage them, but 7.1 is on a level that is not as easily mitigated.
Come on, engineers. Let's get this right soon.�
Jan 21, 2016
isaax @andyw2100 and @todd burch, I'm the poster of the video. My TACC didn't react at all for that particular incident with a distance set to 7. I don't see how that would be normal or improved over pre-7.1 updates as both of you stated. At a TACC distance set to 7 my car usually shows signs of slowing down really early. I am certain I would have rear ended that car if I didn't touch the brake. I suppose it can be difficult to gauge from watching that video, especially without audio. I had a buddy riding shotgun. I was telling him "It should've started slowing down by now" "ok, it's not slowing (then I tapped the brake to disengage TACC)" while my buddy was looking for a non-existent oh $h*t handle to grab on to.�
Jan 22, 2016
msnow I have had this same exact thing happen twice now. This is dangerous.�
Jan 22, 2016
Todd Burch It's normal as in TACC has always acted that way.
Right about the time you intervened is about when the car would start tracking it and slowing down for it, which is how TACC has been acting since it first came out. Basically, when any car changes lanes and starts to cut in front of you, TACC usually takes a few seconds to start slowing down. It's always been like that. I'm not saying it *should* be like that, I'm just saying that's how it has been--it's not new to 7.1.�
Jan 22, 2016
mkjayakumar And if it didn't slow down and if you end up rear-ending like the other posted in a different thread, then you will be blamed for not understanding that AP is only a driver aid tool and you need to be in charge all the time.. yada yada yada�
Jan 22, 2016
kort677 ^^^this^^^
not only is it only an aide to driving it is a beta and you have been warned to be alert and ready to assume control at any moment.
I think that tesla shouldn't named it autopilot at this point because it makes many believe that the car can be autonomous, it would have been wiser to get a little less promo sizzle by calling the AP system what it really is, ASSISTED driving.
be alert and be safe while using the system�
Jan 22, 2016
jbcarioca The name 'autopilot' probably came from aviation. No certified IFR aircraft pilot would ever mistake an autopilot for autonomous flying. I think the word is quite precise and accurate, but may well be too technical for use among the general car driving population. It makes me sad to agree; I wish people would think about the actual meaning of words they use.�
Jan 22, 2016
Chasedrgc1223 I always used to trust it and have confidence that it would eventually pick up the car and stop, but with my incident it definitely did not and was not going to. This is evidently clear since it likely triggered an AEB event, but I also slammed on the brakes and it definitely skidded with ABS activating. I know some will say it would have picked up the car and stopped (I certainly would if I saw this post), but I cannot highlight it enough that had I not intervened I would have hit the car.�
Jan 22, 2016
Lump Similar non autopilot bugs.
1. Same backup camara split screen, only happened once.
Rebooting daily hoping to fix a Bluetooth issue, car wouldn't switch to a diferent drivers bluetooth device & would display the last persons calendar, my wife would see my calendar & vice versa even though we were 20 miles apart, it would require disconnecting from a device that was in a different city.
2. Yesterday, fast forwarding Slacker from the steering wheel wasn't functioning but worked fine from the touchscreen, fast forwarding media on my iPhone was unaffected.
3. Having just rebooted map tiles were not being displayed during a 15 mile drive...(to the service center)
4. Voice command not available.
Since I have been having MCU problems for over 6 months, yesterday out of frustration I drove to the service center so they can see for them selves & not waist time on the phone describing my issues & then being told my logs don't show anything wrong, rebooting isn't helping so I suggesting reinstalling the firmware thinking mine was an isolated case, we now have multiple reports.�
Jan 22, 2016
isaax @Todd Burch, I actually have experienced the opposite while keeping my TACC distance set at 7 (always). My MS would gently slow (every time) the moment it sees a vehicle down range under the 7 sec distance threshold, whether it be a stopped or slower vehicle in my lane or a vehicle that's beginning to cross into my lane. Is it possible that TACC behaves differently between AP equipped and non-AP MS's? In 7.1, I can replicate the TACC not responding to stopped traffic down range at an average of 1/5 tries. I was out driving this morning testing. Each event did display stopped vehicles on my dash as I would approach at 55mph then having to take over and brake late and hard with my body lunging forward in the seat. I do have video in my dash cam, but I think it's useless to show without having a visual of the dash display as well. I may borrow a friend's GoPro this weekend record the dash and attempt the test again.
My S70 is scheduled for service on Monday for air leaks coming from the front triangle windows. I will mention my post 7.1 TACC experiences with the service adviser and see if they have a newer rev available.
�
Jan 22, 2016
Cosmacelf I don't think that's the way it works. Mobileye, for instance, doesn't currently use any radar sensors. That's all Tesla code. I think all Mobileye does is recognize lanes and cars, and gives that info to Tesla code which then actually controls the car. So the question is, where does the Tesla self driving code run? I don't think they are running it on the eyeQ3 chip itself. I suspect, the actually car control code is on the same processor as all the other car software runs on. So the turn signal blinker code runs on that same processor too, for instance.�
Jan 22, 2016
GoTslaGo Thanks!�
Jan 24, 2016
green1 Just a reminder. Every time it gets this wrong, please email tesla. A few days ago they told me that they've received zero reports of the system getting this wrong, so they don't think it's a common occurrence. They also basically told me that nobody looks at the bug reports filed through the vehicle, so you need to email them [email�protected]�
Jan 24, 2016
GoTslaGo Thanks, will do that!�
Jan 24, 2016
Nismode I would say that's asking for trouble, I've driven with it on early and would rather an early warning and a false positive rather than finding out when I'm about to hit someone.
From what it sounds like in other threads, the majority of people having not having issues have their Collision Warning set to early, the TACC set to 4 and above, and are driving with a lot more vigilance with the beta software, versus those who might have it on late or put more blind faith and trust in the system than they should.
Might just be me personally, but at the end of the day, I'm the one responsible for getting me to my destination safely (as well as other passengers in the vehicle), and I'll be damned if I'm going to resign all of that control or power to a computer on "beta" software.�
Jan 25, 2016
davidc18 ^^^^^^^^^ this
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I'm glad that you did not have an accident but please do not assume TACC will stop the car. You have to monitor the automation and decide when to intervene. You always have to intervene at some time. The car is in no way autonomous and must be monitored at all times.
I think that it is unfortunate that Tesla is allowing people to use autosteer and TACC without first training the delivery specialists on the systems and their proper use (at a minimum). I am shocked at some of the comments I've read, my favorite was a poster who is reading while using AP/TACC because he had read that the car was in control of the driving. REALLY!!!
Perhaps the public at large is just not ready for this level of automation assistance.�
Jan 25, 2016
Quantum` Ala ka Zam predicts: the CPU is too busy to respond in time. Thus means one of 3 things:
- It's in an unreasonable loop due to a bug; or
- A single driver or app needs optimizing; or
- It's just going as fast as it can and the load at busy times is past 100%, which means optimization AND feature freeze...
or new MCU. �\_(?)_?��
Jan 25, 2016
Todd Burch No way. Autopilot uses dedicated processors.
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Update: Still looking for this issue--still haven't found a software problem with TACC.
In fact, I was amazed by its awesomeness today. I was in the left lane of a 4-lane road (2 lanes each way) with nobody ahead of me but a car maybe 100 feet ahead and in the right line. I was going probably 5 mph faster than it, but I needed to turn right soon so inititated an automatic lane change.
The car started slowing immediately, before it moved over. In other words, it recognized that the car in the lane to the right of me was traveling slower, and immediately started slowing the car to make the lane change, versus switching to the adjacent lane, then slowing.
To my knowledge, no other adaptive cruise systems do this (presumably because nobody else does automated lane changes).�
Jan 25, 2016
JenniferQ it does lane changes very well. I'm not sure how the two systems work together, but I am starting to think the problems I'm having are more to do with TACC than AS. For example, today I only had TACC on, no AS, and the car starting slowing abruptly even though there was nothing in my lane. Only a truck to my right.�
Jan 25, 2016
Todd Burch I've encountered that a few times. I saw it once on a bright, sunny day when a hard, straight shadow (from an overpass) crossed the road. I think the camera identified the straight shadow as a potential obstruction and began slowing out of caution.
The other time I encountered it was on a cloudy day--it wasn't a strong slowdown--more of a random drop in about 5 mph, then it increased again. Whole episode lasted less than 5 seconds. Haven't encountered it again on the same road since. But in that instance, there was a car to my right.
It could be that if it senses the adjacent car approaching the side of the S above some threshold, it begins slowing to try to avoid a collision. Just a guess.�
Jan 25, 2016
Doug_G Couple of posts moved to snippiness�
Jan 25, 2016
GoTslaGo
Interesting point regarding the sun and shadows. I've noticed that sometimes the car will give me an obstruction warning as I am backing out of my garage (after I've opened the garage door). When I put the car in reverse it tells me there is something blocking the back of the car and the only thing I can see the the morning sun and shadow cast across the threshold of the garage. Garage faces east. When I start driving the obstruction warning gradually goes away.
Also I emailed Tesla service, and they responded the next day. I was just telling them of some Autosteer issues, no immediate fix needed. So please appraise them of any problems you may have. They do seem to be reading these emails.�
Jan 26, 2016
Soolim Intriguing. I thought the rear camera is only for viewing not connected to AP in anyway. So how would shadow be interpreted as obstruction?�
Jan 26, 2016
tom66 The turn signal code, brake light control, etc. all run on the body control unit manufactured by Pektron, England.
The autopilot probably runs in a dedicated piece of hardware with dual or triply redundant processors.�
Jan 26, 2016
Todd Burch I haven't seen the overpass/shadow thing with 7.1 yet. I'm not convinced the slowdown was a bug, either. It only happened once.�
Jan 26, 2016
Chasedrgc1223 As far as I know, with some support from wk507's hacking thread, the rear camera is absolutely not tied into the autopilot system, but even so I still have doubts.�
Jan 26, 2016
JunesongProvisn I drove 2k miles in the past 6 days, including three days stuck in rural PA due to winter storm Jonas. On the way back last night, I thought my Tesla finally decided to start getting me back for all the insane mode pulls because several times when we would pass a car in the left lane (on the interstate), it would pull massively to the right. It seriously felt like it was trying to crash into the car next to me like you see police trying to do when people are running from them. Fortunately, I was ready to take over but after the 3rd or 4th time, I completely disengaged AP.
While charging, I noticed that the front radar was covered in road salt, so I cleaned it off but that didn't help at all. Not sure what's up but it was super sketchy. I think I'll email them about it.�
Jan 26, 2016
Cosmacelf And you know this how?�
Jan 27, 2016
GoTslaGo It's the red/yellow wavy lines you see on the dash, and the car pings at you when you get too close to things (like I like to do to my wife's chagrine). I tend to park close in the front and the car will yell at me to "stop" and one time even forced the grey "hold" function on. I've crushed things in my garage with my X5. Love how the MS tells you how close things are. When you back up it also gives you warnings.
You are right it's not the AP, but I think the car tends to see shadows as obstructions. It often yells at me and gives me distance warnings as I back it out into the morning sun from the garage. I am sure it's not the camera per se (I read other posts saying the camera is just for us, the car doesn't use it).
However, I was watching the camera image as I was backing out since the car was yelling at me, to see what was blocking me. The only thing I could see was a clear demarcated shadow line from the morning sun cast from the front edge of my house. As I approached the shadow line and passed through it, the distance numbers and red line faded, turned yellow, and went away. And the car stopped yelling at me.
I'm guessing that there may be some relationship between the software for front/back distance measurements and the AP. This would partially explain why it seems to see shadows as objects/obstructions.
Then again, maybe the car just likes yelling at me. It is my wife's car...�
Jan 27, 2016
Chasedrgc1223 That's very intriguing, and I like your analysis! Maybe summon is differentiated from the autopilot processing system and that's how it knows things? I'm not sure, we're going to need more data as to how the rear camera plays into software, more specifically into the relation between sonar sensor + rear camera.�
Jan 27, 2016
Soolim Can you post a picture of the condition when the car yelled at you to stop, without obstruction in close proximity?�
Jan 27, 2016
3s-a-charm I remember in early AP literature they mentioned it was supposed to give extra room when passing or being passed by other vehicles - especially trucks. I also feel like sometimes another vehicle beside me is a magnet for my car.
Overall though I am very satisfied with this "Gen 1" Autopilot and it is certainly something I miss when jumping into another vehicle for the day.�
Jan 27, 2016
GoTslaGo Will try, hopefully this weekend I can get my wife to let me take the car in the AM.�
Jan 30, 2016
GoTslaGo Ok, no go this Saturday. Too cloudy this morning, but I described to my wife what the issue was and she will try to keep her eye out for the false warning. Will see if we can try again tomorrow, but there is supposed to be a storm coming through.�
Jan 31, 2016
Soolim Take your time.�
Feb 1, 2016
W0QR Yea, I noticed this too.�
Feb 1, 2016
mkjayakumar First two days with my Model S and I am LOVING Autopilot. I have only tried it in the center lane and it works GREAT.
I gave test rides to over a dozen folks and let even a few (licensed) teenagers drive. Every one of them were simply awe-struck on how nicely it drove on Autopilot. The young ones were the most curious, asking dozens of questions. With a car full of adults, who had no clue to the self-driving autopilot capabilities of this car, it was a riot moment when I turned it on and let go of the steering wheel. I wish I had it recorded. First it was stunned disbelief and that quickly turned to loud cheering.
Question: Where is this so called Autopilot literature, that you guys are referring to?. The manual that is in the center console has no information except a bunch of warnings and such. How do I even change my distance-to-follow setting?�
Feb 1, 2016
Chasedrgc1223 Congrats on your Model S!! On the end of your cruise control stalk, you can rotate it to change your following distance.�
Feb 1, 2016
sandnl My Auto Pilot and cruise control just disappeared!!??!!?? Anyone else have this problem??�
Feb 1, 2016
green1 Make sure your camera and front radar are clean, if they are obstructed the car will disable TACC and Autosteer.
If they are in fact clear, try a reboot, if that doesn't do it, reboot again, and if that fails, likely there's an issue that Tesla will have to address.�
Feb 1, 2016
Chasedrgc1223 Also, you may just want to try waiting it out. Today I got the warning for the first time since March, and it worked after 5 or so minutes.�
Feb 3, 2016
Navyguy
No it is not, BUT it IS kind of reassuring that it can also be fixed that way lol. double edged sword lol�
Feb 3, 2016
GoTslaGo Yes, my wife thinks I'm FOS/crazy too....
Always gives me that, "yes let me humor you smile" so you will shut up and go away and let me drive my S...
I even checked her camera roll on her phone. No pics.�
Feb 12, 2016
GoTslaGo Ok, I finally had the perfect condition today. The sun was just right, the shadow was at the perfect position. I put the car in reverse...
Nothing.
No alarm, no nothing. Just a nice smooth reverse out of my garage. Guess I'm FOS at this point. Just ignore my conjecture about the shadows.
My wife was very nice, saying "It's probably 7.1, you saw this phenomenon with 7.0, remember..."
I love my wife...�
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