May 20, 2015
kuttakamina Friends, Romans and countrymen,
I just test drove both the 70d and 85d back to back. I did not test drive the p85d for fear of liking it too much.
As background, I had never driven Model S before (I've sat in one) or for that matter an EV. My current car is a high end Acura sedan (don't laugh).
Here is my review.
This car is f'ing nuts! It leaps like a bunny. It feels lithe like a 16 year old gymnast. It looks sexier than all hollywood starlets, smoother than their female counterpart's legs, and yet strong like putin.
The car is big, but doesn't feel big when you drive it. You look behind and really appreciate how big it is, its uncanny. Goes without saying, its roomy and comfy.
You will not like driving an ICE after you drive this - I mean I don't hate driving my ICE, but certainly I feel the vibration and noise now.
The difference between say a ruckety 1985 corolla vs. my car, and my car and Tesla is approximately the same.
The MS is smooth smooth smooth. And even at 45mph on an inside road, with the pano roof open, I coud hear the wind rustling through the leaves.
I could hear tire noise with the pano roof open though (but it had 21" wheels). With the pano roof open 100%, there is significant buffeting, but at 75% its fine.
The sun does not beat down on you with the roof closed.
I couldn't tell the difference between coils/19" and SAS/21".
The Audio both base, and the 2500 ultra hifi whatever are WEAK, both of 'em!.
The $2500 audio is weaker than my Acura, which is just sad. But the $2500 audio is better than the base audio.
Now between 70d and 85d, the freeway speeds here are 55. Frankly the 85d was SLIGHTLY faster, but not 10k faster.
0-30 I don't notice any difference. At 60+ (which I didn't try of course), there was minor difference. My feeling is, get 85d for range, not speed.
Both cars had enough power for normal use. Maybe if your speed limits are 75 routinely, the 85 makes more sense. At 65 speed limit - uhh its a toss up.
At 55, the 85 to me makes zero sense except the extra range.
The speed limit recognition works VERY well. The TACC works well enough for my needs. Didn't get to test the autoheadlights and autopilot isn't out yet.
Finally, they had a new blue on the floor with tan interior. There aren't enough pictures of this new blue on the interwebs, so I took some pictures for all of us to enjoy and lust over.
The new blue is gorgeous, looks especially nice with tan. I saw the new blue from a distance at a service center earlier, didn't care much for it.
But maybe it was the showroom lights? Not sure! I'm back to confused, black or blue! Hmm!
Anyway, here are the pictures, drool away my darlings!
Finally, if this post gets indexed, searched, goes viral, please also do realize, Model S is far from perfect.
High maint. costs, questionable reliability, and high repair costs are things you MUST consider.
Please also see this thread - Model S reliability issues
My choice is going to be - I'm gonna go for it. But I will eventually get the extended warranty.�
May 20, 2015
mejojo Uh, trust me 85D *is* $10K faster.
"High maint. costs"? What goes into this statement? There is virtually no maintenance.
Your poll does not support a "questionable reliability" verdict.
High repair costs, no doubt.�
May 20, 2015
Max* Thanks for clearing that up!�
May 20, 2015
No2DinosaurFuel Well hopefully they work out the reliablility issue by now on the 2015 cars. Also the 4 year 50K miles should cover all the small and large issue with the car. That being said, i am now considering getting the bare minimum. I.e. no air no paneramic roof no auto lifegate not cornering fog lights etc. All of these can go wrong and it might be down the road when warranty is out. I guess i can live without all those amenities.�
May 20, 2015
Max* @kuttakamina is that the Tysons showroom?�
May 20, 2015
DougH P85D is the best of them all, it is a marvel. But spendy.�
May 20, 2015
Cyclone Can't be. Tyson's is a standalone building (I picked up my car there last week). Some of the photos above look like a gallery inside a mall.�
May 20, 2015
kuttakamina Montogomery mall
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I think either get the full MS experience or not at all. Look at it this way, wait a year, and pick a CPO for 10k cheaper.
The pano roof is nice. The tech package is nice.
One thing I forgot to mention, even if you don't get the autopilot, the blind spot recognition, lane departure warning, and speed limit readings still work. What doesn't work as of today is TACC and auto headlights, and probably more later.
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yes. But forget the money part, God has been kind, money thankfully is not an issue. I just don't need a p85d, neither do I have her maturity to handle one.�
May 20, 2015
Max* There is a showroom less than 2 miles from the dealership (I've been to both). They opened the showroom first, before they were allowed to open a dealership in VA.
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Gotchya!�
May 20, 2015
kuttakamina Max* what color did you get?�
May 20, 2015
Max* Ocean Blue. I've only seen pics when I ordered it, but I didn't like any of the other colors available at the time.�
May 20, 2015
brianman 70D -> 85D
70D
85D
P85D
5.2s 0-60
4.4s 0-60
3.1s 0-60
140mph
155mph
155mph
$57,500 (after whatever)
$67,500 (after whatever)
$87,500 (after whatever)
15% quicker to 60mph = (5.2-4.4)/5.2
10% faster = (155-140)/140
+$10K
85D -> P85D
29% quicker to 60mph = (4.4-3.1)/4.4
0% faster
+$20K
It's much easier to experience the difference (riding/driving) and see the value proposition (#s) for the first upgrade.
That said, there's always a premium for top of the line. But, if you're able to use it (locale and/or track events), the "jump" from 0 in a P85D is, well, a singular experience among vehicles in multiple categories (sedans, EVs, price range, etc.).�
May 20, 2015
kuttakamina Yes but I seriously doubt there is any difference between 70d and 85d in 0-30.
I wish there was a breakdown of 0-30 and 30-60.
Either way, 70d is "fast enough for me"
�
May 20, 2015
brianman You might want to keep an eye on this thread:
0-60/30-50/50-70 comparitive times for 70D/85D/P85D
Note that post 2 has a wiki.
That said, I find it odd that you think the meat of the 0.8s difference between the 85D and 70D is in the 30-60 part of 0-60 rather than in the 0-30 part. You might want to look here (graph of S85 vs. P85 vs. P85D) to see why I find that odd:
P85D 691HP should have an asterisk * next to it.. - Page 68�
May 20, 2015
stevej119 I'm guessing most of the difference is between 0-30.�
May 20, 2015
brianman On this we can agree.�
May 20, 2015
cgiGuy You lost me at "...strong like [P]utin."�
May 20, 2015
kuttakamina That thread reads like this -->
"We can't really tell which is faster, we need super accurate instruments to be 100% sure".
Meanwhile, I can measure the saved 10K quite accurately.
Thats a free McD ice cream for the next 29 years! (Not considering inflation)
Everybody loves ice cream!�
May 20, 2015
EugeneM i agree with your assessment completely. I ordered the 70D after the test drive. I cannot tell the difference at my average speeds. We're talking about 0.8 sec... Maybe I am not sophisticated enough to feel it but to me the 10k difference was not worth it. I just used the money to get every upgrade I wanted. The range is also not a huge issue for me. Plenty of chargers around and a superchargers all around with the closest one 5 miles away.
Now if anyone can tell me how to summon the patience needed to suffer throug the months leading to delivery
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Did I just waste 29 years worth of ice cream on the upgrades?
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The strong like Putin part is awesome
As for the colors, I think the Titanium is a great color. New, so there won't be a ton of other MS's around looking like yours for a while. Light enough so that every speck of dust is not visible from a mile away but not white which would suffer from the same problem.
Black is is a great color but not practical. I've driven a black 5 series for a while and while it looked great it was NEVER clean. It looked dusty right out of the car wash.�
May 20, 2015
S4WRXTTCS The 85D has the 70D to thank for being so fast.
When the 85D was announced/released it wasn't as fast as it is now. It was made faster when they announced the 70D, and updated the firmware on the 85D.
I think that plays a part as to why the 85D often gets ignored or overlooked. It meets the really sweet spot in terms of power/price between the 70D, and the P85D. But, both of those cars took the spot light.
Its still not a P85D because it doesn't have the same handling that comes with a P85D or the harsh ride. If I was someone that wanted a comfy fast sedan than the 85D would be pretty ideal. For me personally when I select a car for performance I want the better handling even if it comes at a cost of a harsh ride.
Performance wise the only thing I really feel like I'm giving up with the 70D is the 30-70 time. It's the one area where I can see the 85D being significantly faster. We still don't have the numbers, but I'm sure the 85D is at least 1 to 1.5 seconds faster than the 70D.�
May 20, 2015
EugeneM
Speed limit in NYC is now a cool 25mph with speed cameras EVERYWHERE. So for those of us on the east coast even 70D is way too fast for most situations.�
May 20, 2015
chriSharek Thanks for the review, but more importantly the pix. That blue one with tan interior and 19"s is EXACTLY what I'm ordering in 3 days. 85D all the way. For the range AND the performance.�
May 20, 2015
kuttakamina I knew you'd like the pics�
May 20, 2015
chriSharek Wow! Thanks man. I do appreciate it. Hey, how did you add your picture on your proifile? I can't seem to figure out how to do that . . . I have a picture there loaded, but it doesn't show up in my posts! Sorry about the off topic . ..�
May 20, 2015
EugeneM It does show up for me. I see the Florida Tesla enthusiast pic.�
May 20, 2015
kuttakamina Here - Tesla Motors Club - Enthusiasts & Owners Forum .. look for the menu on the left hand side! Says "Edit profile picture".
I wanted to put something funny, but everyone on this forum seems so serious, and the Mods seem very strict.�
May 20, 2015
brianman Nah, that's a group icon. He wants Avatar picture. Go to Settings, chriSharek, and look for Edit Avatar on the bottom left.
A variety of places for pictures on TMC:
- pictures embedded in posts
- pictures attached to posts
- profile picture
- avatar picture
- group icons�
May 20, 2015
bjwModelS
Thanks for the blue pics! Definitely not enough out there. Ordered April 30 without seeing one in the flesh, and I think mine will be the first I see in person when it arrives next month!�
May 21, 2015
chriSharek Is it working now? I met Franz ??? at the Detroit Auto Show a couple years back. Very cool. I also got this cool pic:
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Another reason I'm stretching to get the 85D is that the 70D, after a few years of slight battery degradation (however long this takes), you're looking at around a 200 mile range, which is what the Model 3 is supposed to be. By getting an 85 you insulate yourself slightly from being in that lower tier with the Model 3. I hope this is making sense - not sure I'm clearly saying what I mean.�
May 21, 2015
Max* Yes it's working. And to degrade the 70D to a rated 200miles, is a 17% degradation. There was a thread somewhere on TMC where someone hit 100k miles and only had an 6% or 8% degradation, IIRC. You'd have to drive a lot of miles to get there...�
May 21, 2015
travwill Had to chuckle at your comment. I got the 70D also and seemed plenty fast enough in drives, 5 seconds -0-60 is good for more than most cars out there. I'm coming from a Touareg Hybrid that is around 6.5-7.5 seconds I think, and our X5 seems fast and its like 7 seconds.
But, again - in Chicago, probably like New York. I spend 90% of my time around 20-40 miles per hour. Part of that time is spend dodging pot holes. Sitting in traffic at 0 mph. Then then when you do finally get to go over 30 you have to constantly watch out for the new speed cameras at all parks and all schools or just near them in Chicago. It's "for the children" but man, our thief/crook of a mayor and city just loves the revenue. Our household has already gotten a few in our "slower" cars so will have to watch it in the Model S. Can't wait to get out of the hellhole named Illinois and back to my home state of Texas!
-T�
May 21, 2015
kuttakamina I was thinking further about this .. and reading on TMC ..
So, we usually charge the car at 80%.
In winters, the range is 70% of rated.
After 8 years, the battery will likely have 80% capacity left.
So 8 years later, in winter, your range would be - 107 miles on 70d and 120 miles on 85d.
Thats like almost Nissan Leaf bad. Am I misreading this?�
May 21, 2015
Max* Where did you get this number from?�
May 21, 2015
travwill I think with your thoughts it would be 80% of 240 = 192. Then on those cold days if you say 80% of that you would have 154 miles range on a 70D even. 70% would be 135 miles on a 70D even. I think the 20% degradation estimate is high even for 8 years. I'd expect closer to 10%.
Nissan Leaf bad would be comparable of starting with 100, 80% down to 80 miles, then 70% of that would be only 56 miles rage.�
May 21, 2015
Max* Here's one link I found on TMC: 92k miles, 7.5% degradation.
Plug In America
I could've sworn someone hit 100k and had only 6%... but I can't find the link now.
Assuming a linear extrapolation (though I've read arguments that the battery degradation is non-linear, and the biggest hit is taken early on and it levels out after that), a 20% degradation over 8 years would be 245k miles... you're planning on driving 245k miles in 8 years?
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Tesla Model S Battery Life: How Much Range Loss For Electric Car Over Time?
The recent Model S numbers from The Netherlands are even more encouraging.
Based on 84 data points from the 85-kWh version of the Model S and six from 60-kWh cars, the study concludes that the Model S will retain about 94 percent of its capacity after 50,000 miles, with losses thereafter shrinking to about 1 percent per 30,000 miles.
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I did a quick calc on EV trip planner for the cold weather degredation.
I chose an arbitrary 250mile route, 1x speed multiplier, 200lb payload, 70 degree cabin temp.
Outside temp: 72 degrees, 251RM used
Outside temp: 102 degrees, 270RM used
Outside temp: 32 degrees, 299RM used
Only about a 16% degredation. I've read 20% elsewhere, so let's go with 20% to be conservative.
70D after 100k miles in the winter will get: 177RM
85D after 100k miles in the winter will get: 200RM�
May 21, 2015
spottyq There you have data about degradation versus battery cycles, not degradation versus time. It's not the same� Even when not used at all, a battery degrades, that's what's interesting to know after 8 years. (but of course we will have to wait till 2020 at least to have that data since the first model S rolled out in 2012 if I'm not mistaken.)
That 80% figure after 8 years with a moderate usage seems somewhat a worst case scenario to me, but it is IMHO a good value to use when making financial decisions about your car.
Also keep in mind, when comparing the Model S to the Leaf : the Leaf does not have a thermal management system, whereas Tesla has a dedicated 6kW heater for the battery and can also cool the battery when needed. (Also, if I'm not mistaken, Nissan allows a higher C rate than Tesla, especially when DC charging.)�
May 21, 2015
Max* Hmm... yeah, that makes sense. There are 7 year old roadsters out there. Are they anywhere near the 20% degraded estimate?�
May 21, 2015
djp Tom Saxton's Roadster battery study showed that degradation is more closely related to mileage than time, with an expectation of 80-85% capacity over 100,000 miles. The Model S battery has improved chemistry and should easily beat that.
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/tesla-roadster/PIA-Roadster-Battery-Study.pdf
Personally I've seen zero degradation on my five year old pack.�
May 21, 2015
glhs272 At about 48k on my 60, I have about 1.4% range loss (207/211).�
May 21, 2015
Max* Thank you. So then my original estimate may be correct. Not as terrible as it may seem.�
May 21, 2015
spottyq That is some awesome data collection and presentation ! Thanks for the link.
Max*, it does indeed appear you were right, that battery degradation is independent of time.
(We can apply the conclusions of the Roadster battery data to the Model S, right ? Same cells, both has a TMS, and same-or-lower C-rate for the Roadster. Something I'm missing ?)�
May 21, 2015
EugeneM Personally, I am leasing. I run a business so the tax savings I get from leasing make a lease a good deal for me so I highly doubt it'll degrade that much in 3 years, or for that matter in 5-6 years. You need to remember that the BMS they use is VERY sophisticated and you have to really abuse your battery as in leave it discharged to zero for long periods of time or always charge to 100% to degrade it like this. As the poster below your post said it's a 17% loss and I think they are projecting 60% capacity after 16 years!
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Oh yeah, I drive a '12 X5 myself and it's plenty fast at 7? seconds 0-60. It's a diesel so the torque it generates is over 425 lb.ft.. At low speeds that car moves! but it's nowhere close to the MS and the 70D seemed lightning fast at the speeds I am used to driving.
On a side note I just noticed 3 new speed cameras in my neighborhood yesterday...�
May 21, 2015
kuttakamina Okay phew! Thanks for all your inputs, I was a bit worried there.
Last night I measured distances between all charging possibilities on the east coast.
With the exception of deep in PA or WV, and between Charolette and Atlanta, and from DC to Roanoke - every where on the east coast is approachable with superchargers.
.. and once you add chargepoint and chademo to it, then charging/range etc. is a non-issue.
Still leaning towards 70d, but I've changed my color pref. from black to blue�
May 21, 2015
EugeneM Yes you are. They guarantee that the capacity will be no less than 80% when in reality I will be surprised if it drops by more than 6-10% and that is after driving 100k miles.
I run a company that manufactures and sells electric bicycles and while the equipment (BMS and cells) we use is a lot less sophisticated the average life of our battery pack can easily add up to years (though we don't advertise it - under promise and over deliver and all of that). These are small packs so they can go from 100% to 0 on a daily basis which is pretty hard on the battery if our customers ride a lot.
I wouldn't worry about degradation for many years.�
May 21, 2015
kuttakamina .. I could not find any text with "80%" on Tesla's site.�
May 21, 2015
EugeneM It's not but it's the number that seems to come up in studies and is based on the official TM ratings.
Still I deal with batteries used in vehicle applications on a daily basis and my opinion, based on my years of experience in this field, is that they are setting the expectations too low.�
May 21, 2015
P85DBeast If I had test drove the 85D before The P85D I probaly would have gotten the 85D instead of spending more than what was in my budget for my MS but to me the 85D and P85D really don't seem like you're losing power if you get the 85D just a 4.4sec 0-60 vs a 3.1sec 0-60 I mean the My P85D is a little to fast for me and the 85D but I just feel like the 70D and 60D are so underpowered.�
May 21, 2015
Cyclone My 2013 w/ 31k miles gets 239 miles at 90% and 255 miles 95%. That equates to zero degradation from advertised rated range compared to new. Works for me!
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In the Southeast subforum, we have a Charlotte <-> Atlanta thread. It is doable. Two weeks ago I met a Tesla Marketing Rep who drove a 70D up from Atlanta -> Charlotte, charged in Charlotte (the store, not the supercharger) while attending the grand opening event, and then drove back to Atlanta. If the 70D can do it (though she has to be watchful of her speed), then any Model S can do it.�
May 21, 2015
Dutchie If it is just about the worry of the battery degradation that you will op for the 85 in stead of the 70 I would still buy the 70.. 10K is a lot of money. Put the money away in an investment account and you problem could buy easily a new battery pack as soon as the mileage gets too low for your comfort..�
May 21, 2015
chriSharek Another advantage to the 85 over the 70 is the faster SC Time. So, 10k gets you additional 30 miles of range, 0.8 faster 0-60, faster SC time, and additional battery buffer to combat degradation.�
May 21, 2015
0Q991 Not sure there's a clear cut answer to this one. We all have different driving patterns, personal utility, comfort level with the budget delta between the 70D and 85D.
For me, I have the same commute every day during the week. Maybe deviate from it 5-10% of the weekdays in a year. No need to supercharge that I can foresee because we have a big family car for the weekends. The daily range of the 70D is 2x my daily commute and I have a 120V plug for free juice at my parking spot at work. No need for the additional (but significant!) performance of the 85D because my commute is through LA traffic at / near rush hour. On the weekends, I have an ICE car to get the heart racing.
My personal analysis for my situation is that the 85D is certainly better in every way than the 70D, but I won't be able to enjoy any of those added benefits. I can, however, enjoy saving the $10k and I can definitely appreciate keeping the Mrs. happy by saving that added amount.�
May 21, 2015
DPDsModelS Green is definitely best...
You should definitely get green... oh wait, you can't! :tongue:
13,500 miles in 5 months = 32,500 miles in 12 months = 260,000 miles in 8 years. So yes.�
May 21, 2015
brucet999 Here are two links that should give you better information on Tesla battery life expectancy.
A study of Tesla Roadster battery life
Tesla Roadster Battery Life Study: 85 Percent Capacity After 100,000 Miles | PluginCars.com
Dalhousie University discussion on Lion battery longevity and causes of failure. Specifically shows that Tesla chemistry is different from Leaf and intrinsically better.
Why do Li-ion Batteries die ? and how to improve the situation? - YouTube�
May 21, 2015
kuttakamina Thanks! This forum, and all you guys (and gals) are awesome!�
May 21, 2015
brianman If you can keep her happy for as little as $10k, take the deal.�
May 21, 2015
0Q991 Haha. As with most of our spouses I imagine, it's not the actual matter of the $10k--rather, it's that you're "thinking" about it!�
May 21, 2015
chriSharek ABSOLUTELY. I certainly didn't mean to come across that the 85D is for everyone and is the end all / be all. Sorry about that. Maybe I was justifying it to myself!�
May 21, 2015
EugeneM It's not faster. 0-80% takes about the same amount of time. That being said 80% is a different number in miles for the 70 and the 85.
The 30 mile advantage is a fact...whether it's important is different for everyone.
The 0.8sec 0-60 difference..well it's definitely there but for me, personally, considering that I live in a place where most streets have a 25mph speed limit, it's not worth 10k.
That being said, to each his own and EVERY MS is great, no matter which one you go with.�
May 21, 2015
0Q991 No worries--totally understand. I think we've spoken on other threads on this topic. If the Tesla were my 7 day a week car, I would personally choose the 85D also. Best range, second-best performance (which is already nearly BMW M5 level...).
My point was simply that, depending on the specific needs, desires, and circumstances of the individual, the "best" car is determined by different, personal standards.�
May 21, 2015
clarkbariowa So here is the problem, especially if this is your first time driving a Tesla, Instant Torque is like nothing you have ever felt. It is hard to judge both cars when they both feel faster than everything you have been in because of instant Torque. That is why so many people can't tell the difference...�
May 21, 2015
ahurst This ^
Plus the suspension squat or lack thereof can confuse the senses�
May 21, 2015
vvanders I'd say that's a part of it for sure.
When we got the 85D OTA that dropped the 0-60 from 5.2 to 4.4 there's was a *very* noticeable difference in usable power from zero on upwards.�
May 21, 2015
chriSharek You are absolutely right. I've been driving a Volt for the past 4 years. There is nothing like electric. Once you go electric, there is no reason to go back....ever.�
May 21, 2015
GregTexas Now that I have taken delivery of my 70D I am certain I will never need more acceleration than this car gives me.�
May 21, 2015
ny888 Pictures or it didn't happen !�
May 21, 2015
GregTexas This color blue is like a mood ring. The color looks a little drab on cloudy days. We've had a month of cloudy days.�
May 21, 2015
nanimac The color looks different in every picture I've seen of it. Hopefully will get to see the color in person soon as mine is in transit. Good thing we don't have too many cloudy days here :wink:�
May 22, 2015
Modeler I also recently drove both and, for me, 85D felt significantly more powerful. I'll be ordering the 85D. Given the way that I drive, that extra $10K is absolutely worth the price.�
May 22, 2015
chriSharek My Verdict
Today I drove the P85D with air suspension in the "sport" mode, which my Tesla Rep said was the same performance of the 85D (0-60 time). Then right afterwards, I drove the 70D with coils. I also brought a thumbdrive with me and we listened to the same songs both on the Premium and Standard sound systems.
Performance - the 85D is MUCH faster than the 70D - and particularly from 20-60. There is no question I will be getting the 85D. The 70D is no slouch, but the 85D is right between the P85D and 70D. To me, the sweet spot. We did do one "insane" launch just so my son and wife could feel it. My wife said, "that rearranged my brain. My vision was affected." My son said, "my eyeballs were getting sucked back into my head." That's crazy fast - probably overkill and may get old after about 100 times.
Suspension - the coils are great. They really are. I could feel every bump and even felt some "hollowness" of a pattern of bumps on the road. Hard to describe, but the air suspension floated right over and had MUCH less road noise in this particular section of the road. I love the cool factor and even did the 007 code just to show my kid. Uber-cool.
Sound - We were all less than impressed with the premium audio. Again, the point of this drive was for me to make the decision which ONE to choose - SAS OR Premium Sound. Overwhelmingly, we all agreed we'll go with the air. I'll add a woofer to gain that deep base later - and for much less than the $2,500.
So, my verdict and I'll order this tomorrow:
85D, New Metallic Blue, 19"s, tan next gen seats, black alcantara and premium interior, SAS, Autopilot, and the massively gorgeous pano-roof!�
May 22, 2015
Cyclone Congrats Chris! A fine choice!�
May 22, 2015
chriSharek Thanks! I have struggled with the suspension and audio, but I think I'm good now. With that little change to the headliner options, I was scared they made more changes. I'm locking in my order tomorrow for a September 1 Delivery just prior to our National Drive Electric Week EVent on 9/12/15.�
May 22, 2015
ahurst Excellent. Thanks Chris.�
May 22, 2015
chriSharek AHURST, we're going to the Melting Pot tomorrow for my birthday! I've asked the Tesla store if I could borrow one for the night!�
May 22, 2015
S4WRXTTCS I'm a little confused.
Did you actually test drive an 85D?
A P85D in sport mode is not the same thing as an 85D. It has a different suspension setup, different motor in the rear, and it has completely different inverter.�
May 22, 2015
chriSharek Test drove a p85d. The Tesla guy said it was comparable to the 85D in the sport mode.�
May 22, 2015
S4WRXTTCS In all honesty I think he's full of it, and that wasn't something to be trusted.
Two very different cars, and there is no way that a software setting can make them the same.
Now I'm not saying this to defend the 70D because the 85D is faster and has more range. It will charge faster (especially to X number of miles). The 85D is an awesome choice.�
May 22, 2015
ahurst Excellent Chris. I believe the Sarasota restaurant is one of the first locations built. Get the full 4 courses.�
May 22, 2015
GregTexas Here's another one. It's still cloudy here but the sun peeked out some.
�
May 22, 2015
chriSharek Great pic! Great car. I have asked a number of folks about the p85d and the sport mode and received the same response. 4.something to 60 In this mode. Much faster than the 70D.�
May 22, 2015
travwill Wow, that blue is gorgeous! It is making me question the white I ordered :-/ But then again, I wear blue probably too much so perhaps I do need to avoid one more big blue thing!�
May 22, 2015
ahurst That blue is seriously good�
May 22, 2015
andrewket Tyson's is a showroom in a mall- Tysons corner mall. You're thinking of the sales and service center on Tyco road in Vienna.�
May 22, 2015
Cyclone Must be. Odd that they had a showroom up front. But yes, Tyco Road in Vienna and my paperwork reads "Southeast NA-US-VA-Tysons Corner-Tyco Road".�
May 22, 2015
brianman You're right to point out these differences, but re-read Chris's restatement of the Tesla Rep's comments. My interpretation is that the rep was talking only about the 0-60 time -- i.e. the quickness, not the overall ride/comfort/suspension/etc.�
May 23, 2015
chriSharek That's correct Brianman. He was referring to the 0-60 time - I've got to believe some of that spilled over into the accelleration from 20-80 too though. I drove the 70D and the handling around a couple of corners wasn't much different - like I said, the coils were just fine, but I am going with the air today when I place my order. Happy Birthday to me.�
May 23, 2015
Ride Long Thanks everyone for the nine pages (and counting) of barroom argument over this. That's what makes all this fun
To the OP: good luck with your adventure. I happen to agree that the blue is killer and as soon as I saw the new blue I was done for. As a fellow Washingtonian (Mont Co) I also happen to agree that the performance edge of the 85 over the 70 won't make enough difference on our local streets (to me) to be worth the extra $10k. Of course with all my "savings" I now have room to replace my road bike AND get a new mountain bike next year! (Rationalization FTW).�
May 23, 2015
EugeneM I believe that someone on the forums calculated that the $10k in savings are worth 29 years of McSundaes�
May 23, 2015
kuttakamina That was me!�
May 23, 2015
chriSharek So did I! Happy Birthday to me! What color / configuration did you get, Kuttakamina?
Virtual Fist-bumps All Around�
May 23, 2015
kuttakamina Chris
My details here�
May 23, 2015
S4WRXTTCS Yeah, the rep was only talking about 0-60 but my comment was more about what wasn't said.
Did the rep clarify that he couldn't compare suspension because the suspension setup on a 85D is different than the suspension setup on a P85D?
Did the rep clarify that 30-60 on a P85D (in Sport mode) is going to be significantly different than the 85D?
Anyone who knows how to market a product to a customer would give that rep an A+.
Obviously when test driving a car you can't always test drive what you want so you have to draw conclusions from what data you have available. In this case I don't feel like the rep did a good enough job informing the customer. At least from what I read. No damage was done though because the customer got exactly what fits his needs.�
May 23, 2015
chriSharek To answer your questions above - no. The rep didn't clarify those things. However, I drove the 70D RIGHT after the P85D. The handling and speed on both cars were amazing. As long as my 85D is between the 2 of them (which I don't think you'd argue that it is) I'll be a happy camper!
I'm an engineer too - however, I'm in the business development/sales side of things. I am the one selling the design services - so I can completely understand the rep's perspective!�
May 23, 2015
breser I can't fathom why the speed limits matter. The cars are quick, not fast. All of them can well exceed the speed limit (even the maximum speed limit of 85 mph in the US). If we were talking about cars that had maximum speeds near the speed limit, I could understand this logic. But there are very few places in the world with acceleration limits. You can pretty much use the acceleration of any of these cars on the public streets. Doing so while not exceedingly the speed limit might be a slight challenge sometimes, but it's possible.
The 70D specs are exactly the same as the 85D before the "Sport mode" update. I had my car like that for roughly a month and a half before the update. The difference is dramatic. The 85D after the update with the accelerator mashed to floor lifts up in the front and feels a little squirly. The car never behaved this way before the update. There's no way you're going to convince me that there's no difference between a 70D and an 85D.
Yup absolutely. I'm positive that a 70D drives just like my car did before the update or slower. Maybe slower due to the battery.
The 85D was announced at the same time as the P85D. Came out ~3 months later. The 70D got announced and was roughly available immediately. The P85D was old news by that point. When the 85Ds started getting delivered, there wasn't a whole lot of people excited by that.
I had a P85D for a day as a loner. I didn't experience a harsh ride or a dramatically different handling. I know there are suspension differences, but in my opinion the handling differences must be very slight. I expected to be blown away by the car and wish I'd bought it instead, I actually actively didn't want to drive the P85D before I got it as a loaner. I came away impressed by the acceleration, but not wanting it. The launches have uncomfortable physiological effects that would limit me to using the full acceleration as only a demo to new people in the car.
:redface:�
May 24, 2015
Papafox Kuttakamina- Thanks for the entertaining writeup!
After two years of driving a Model S, I could indeed tell that the 85D was noticeably quicker on acceleration. I drove both the 70D and 85D the same day. I really think Tesla has found the sweet spot for the three models. Each provides a noticeable improvement from the one below it, but the base model 70D is still kick-ass fun and a compelling choice.�
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