Sep 5, 2013
Mario Kadastik *sigh* I was trying to get into Tesla being smart and selling puts. I started around april 2012 when it was around $28. I sold monthly options at-money hoping that if it closes just below I'll get the stock dead cheap. By around March 2013 I had made ~$2000 without actually putting anything in (it's an IB margin account and I only had ca $10k on it when I started). I've kept selling puts with the occasionally bought call spread in there and I've made about $5k on TSLA, but I still beat myself up from the fact that I didn't just outright buy TSLA when I planned. Though I doubt I'd have held on to it until now (i.e. $170 range). Still, making $5k without investing a single cent is usefulRight now have 3 short puts (weekly 155, 160, next weeks 155) netting me ~600 USD against margin. I of course have stop loss orders which are GTC trades to safeguard against a huge drop, but there's still the risk if the drop happens outside of market hours. Probably should start safeguarding with some very low price PUTs just to avoid a flash crash margin call.
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Sep 5, 2013
kevin99 Just want to add I did take an opportunity to become a partner in an angel fund. I don't want to give an impression of me day trading stock and making easy money for a living. There are times money come easy, and there are times money taken away easily. When you start associating with lottery win and Vegas gambling and even suggesting that, you got a dangerous mind set for your own disaster coming.
I am actually finding I have less time now�
Sep 8, 2013
neroden Investing in stocks does require a certain... equanimity of temperment.
Volatility is not the same as risk. People in the investing world often confuse the two. I have an extremely low appetite for risk, but I have no problem with huge volatility. As long as my emergency fund is properly sized, if I make a five-year bet on a stock (and that's a short-term bet for me), it really doesn't matter to me what happens in the interim. (It's good to watch it in case the stock gets way too high and it makes sense to sell early, but it's not *necessary*.)
I do not think Tesla is risky in the way in which (for instance) JP Morgan Chase (like most other financial stocks) is risky. JP Morgan Chase has a lack of readily transferrable physical assets, an incomprehensible balance sheet, legal clouds over most of its business and much of its "assets", a customer base which is able to abandon it overnight (and quite likely to do so if there are rumors of a bank run), and self-dealing executives. That's risk: Lehman Brothers type risk.
Tesla's an industrial operation. A car manufacturer with no competitors in their market segment and a market so large that they can't meet demand. That's not risky. TSLA is volatile, and it may be overpriced now, but it's not *risky* the way I define risk -- the risk of the company turning to vapor like Enron is very low.
But in order to invest in stocks, one has to have this *attitude*. If one panics over every daily move, one really must not do stock market investing.�
Sep 8, 2013
Lisa Convert-
Can totally relate to your posting. Also in A&D, but left it for several years and saw completely different corporate cultures. Placed my order for a Model S over 1.5 years ago along with significant stock holdings. Thinking about early retirement and what to do next in life. Fortunate to have the options available.�
Sep 8, 2013
kevin99 Speaking of lottery, I did have an interesting thought. My first million came around late may or June, when Wimbledon was going on. Being a tennis fan, I realized effectively I just won the grand slam! It was an astonishing thought but the time frame and reward was indeed similar. And knowing how hard to win a grand slam, I can't be more pleased.
Now the US open is playing, more grand slams winners are in the making. Not bad to be associated with the Champions I've been idolized, even only in my very narrow fancy mind.�
Sep 8, 2013
kevin99 Lisa, convert and others, nice to see your ambition and enjoying what tesla investment can impact on one's path in life.�
Aug 14, 2014
Cattledog Probably some more Teslanaires made the last few months.�
Aug 14, 2014
austinEV Or remade...�
Aug 14, 2014
Chickenlittle Wow this brought back memories. Whatever happened to Kevin99? Know he left thread but anyone know anything else?�
Aug 16, 2014
Topspin Im one that retired early and am using the 72t.
I've lost big on alt energy before, then investment landscape is littered with once promising can't miss winners.
I love tesla, but I'd put 200,000 in jp Morgan way before tesla
but as a speculative stock, obviously tesla has been and will be a good runner�
Aug 16, 2014
GenIIIBuyer I'm also curious as to what happened to Kevin99. I know he seemed to make some pretty reckless naked put sales that might have blown up his account at some point.�
Aug 16, 2014
Johan I believe Kevin rode TSLA all the way up then down again with options?
Then he posted quite a bit on KNDI but after that he left TMC.�
Aug 16, 2014
blakegallagher
Not sure about riding tsla back down with options but after doing a little research it appears he was disrespectful to Nigel and refused to listen to any of the moderators about it including Doug ... it all ended up with him being banned. I cruised over to his site to see how he was doing and it seems like the newest post was 5 months ago.�
Aug 16, 2014
ggies07 Wasn't Kevin99 the one who asked a question for the board at one of the shareholder meetings?�
Aug 16, 2014
maoing that's right. He did asked a question in June shareholder meeting�
Aug 29, 2014
Curt Renz I believe that was at the 2013 shareholder meeting. His profile has him listed as banned with his last post on 2013 DEC 03.�
Sep 2, 2014
Cattledog Anyone get a club membership offer from the last few weeks' price action?�
Sep 2, 2014
Curt Renz Yes.�
Sep 2, 2014
Cattledog Nice to hear Curt, you have offered good advice here, happy to see it rewarded. I'm a few percentage points away too (not a jinx I hope!) Congratulations to everyone who has supported what's proving to be a great story of entrepreneurship, risk taking, conviction, excellence, and heart. This is the type of company where it feels GREAT to share in their success.�
Sep 2, 2014
Clprenz That is awesome! congrats Curt! I've always appreciated your input on here!�
Sep 2, 2014
MikeL :biggrin:�
Sep 3, 2014
Curt Renz Thank you. Nineteen months of patience has paid off. If you are not already in the club, I expect that you will eventually join it.
Here's a link to post #131 in a 2013 short-term thread which I made a week after I joined this TMC message board and nearly six weeks after I bought all of my shares at an average of $37.93: Short-Term TSLA Price Movements - 2013 - Page 14
Back then the discussion was about how to play swings between $35 and $40. I've never sold any of my shares, although in the meantime I have made a few options trades.�
Sep 3, 2014
clmason With an average of $40 cost per share one would need to have acquired 3,600 shares to become a Teslanaire today. That initial investment would have cost $144K. All this assuming no Option.
No doubt the return is awesome but the conviction to go that deep is just as impressive. Congrats to all the big winners.�
Sep 3, 2014
Chickenlittle Not true could be buying dips and selling peaks.�
Sep 3, 2014
austinEV I am still holding my best trade ever. Bought whole bunch of 2016 leaps with a $145 strike in December at about $43 each. At that time, those were a little out of the money...�
Sep 3, 2014
TSLAopt Goodluck buying the dips and selling the peaks if you read my post #77 in the brokerage thread:
Brokerages Trading Tools - Page 8�
Sep 3, 2014
Chickenlittle I did have a lot of luck. As my broker said to me when discounting my success by saying I was just lucky, I responded I would rather be lucky than good.�
Sep 3, 2014
DaveT Actually according to Cattledog's initial post on this thread he defined Teslanaire as making $1m pre-tax gain, not $1m stock value.�
Sep 3, 2014
austinEV Gah, can we talk about that? Some people have had the temerity to say "you just got lucky that TSLA keeps going up. You have essentially made one good decision". Yep, investing is easy. That is why everyone is a millionaire.�
Sep 3, 2014
MikeC It's actually hundreds or thousands of good decisions. The initial purchase and then every time you made the decision not to sell.�
Sep 3, 2014
bonnie That's the truth. The thousands of times that people tell you to SELL and you tell them you know what you're doing and you don't sell, because you know what you're doing. And the best part? Those people now ask, 'So ... what else are you investing in these days?'�
Sep 3, 2014
TSLAopt +1
People have been telling us to sell from 50 all the way up to now saying it is a bubble and could pop anytime, book your profits as they learned their lesson in the 2000 tech crash, etc. The difference with TSLA in my eyes is this:
long term the value of any stock should really be the future value of all of its dividends (obviously discounted back by interest/risk). In my opinion, Tesla is building physical things and and will continue to build/manufacturer more and more at a very high growth rate for years to come at great margins and be the leader of what it manufacturers for many years to come.
When it matures in 10-25 years or does not need to continue growing at such a fast pace then it will be giving a very large dividend out (large relative to today's price but perhaps only 3-5% of the 2000-5000 stock price at that time).
with other software/tech companies that don't build/manufacture things I don't think this outcome is very certain as it was with AAPL...who knows when YHOO, or FB or GOOG will issue a dividend for example, will they ever? Or will they always just reinvest revenue in trying to maintain their market leadership from other startups. That's where the true risk is in my opinion�
Sep 3, 2014
CatB Yes, plus 1 to all that.
although I am asking myself what else I should be buying? Somehow my TSLA purchases have eclipsed the rest of my portfolio and I am bit imbalanced. Don't get me wrong - great problem to have and, along the lines of Bonnie's advice, selling to balance performance down to average returns is not my idea of a smart move.�
Sep 3, 2014
Curt Renz +1000�
Sep 3, 2014
bonnie I did invest in a startup earlier this year. Not public. Yet. For me, it comes down to knowing enough about the investment that my initial response is an unqualified YES!!!, rather than a 'well, need to investigate further'. If I don't feel that passion about it, that excitement, then it's not going to work for me. (And I can see some of you backing away from your screen, thinking 'she's not one of us!'.) I'm okay with totally unbalanced. (No snarky remarks, please.)
Here's the deal - If I'm not excited by the company / technology / team / market potential , then I'm not going to pay attention like I should. And if I'm not excited about it, why should anyone else be excited about it? So that's my first rule. No passion-less investing. I've probably missed out on more than one great deal. But you know what? My annual returns are, ummm, well hey! I'm getting an X! And keeping my Roadster.
Wasn't it Buffett who recommended growing your portfolio by finding a winning company and really understanding it well? Diversification is for those who don't completely trust their own judgment. I know the market can do things that I can't control. So I have my own safeguards in place to protect myself. But I invest in companies and technology and management teams that I believe in. Unqualified YES.�
Sep 3, 2014
Curt Renz +1,000,000�
Sep 3, 2014
Zythryn I'm currently warring with myself.
I fully expect TSLA to continue to rise annually.
However, I am retired and want to build our net zero, "live in it until we die" house.
I can sell some of our dividend stocks, sell TSLA or a bit of both.
Part of me would LOVE to be able to say our TSLA earnings paid for our net zero home, or a significant portion of it.
Do I give up future earnings (TSLA), current income (dividends) or debt (yuck, evil, hate that idea).
However, this is a first world problem, so no complaints.�
Sep 3, 2014
austinEV 581 Actual decisions. It seems I make $1783 every time I trade, so I should start doing it more...
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Sep 3, 2014
Johann Koeber Yes, thank you TSLA, Tesla and TMC.
The 1m$ is before taxes and before car purchases - right?
Now let's work an the second m$.
Actually as of now I have set up a separate IB account (easy to have several accounts there) with only TSLA and TSLA options.This is a substantial part of my total investment portfolio. Thank you Bonnie for convincing me not to do rebalancing. Now I am a fan of focussed investing. I love the learning experience here. New bulbs light up in my head almost every day I consult this forum (ie daily).�
Sep 3, 2014
Robert.Boston I really don't understand people's reluctance to use debt, especially when they could write a check to pay back the debt. Every large corporation uses debt (bonds) to leverage its equity. Why should you rely solely on equity financing? US tax law makes taking on mortgage debt very advantageous to responsible borrowers.
There is an irrational myth that "consumer debt" is the path to financial ruin. Poppycock. Sure, taking on debt to live beyond your means is folly, but when the after-tax cost of interest is lower than the dividends on your equity or the expected capital gains on your TSLA holdings, it's hard to make a rational case for not taking on the mortgage debt.�
Sep 3, 2014
SteveG3 If the lottery is a tax on the "stupid", I sort of see things like the long-term Tesla experience as a bonus for independent thinking (or compensation for all the environments not so friendly to independent thinking�
Sep 3, 2014
Chickenlittle Could not agree more�
Sep 3, 2014
AlMc THIS is better than all the money. My family is full of aunts/uncles/nephews/nieces/brothers who said 'you are crazy to invest in that company and buy that car'......
How does that go:
Buying TSLA in April 2013 $40-50/share
Adding some options before the Detroit Auto Show Jan 2014 $.75/contract
Having your family asking: "You are retiring...now??" PRICELESS�
Sep 3, 2014
rdalcanto Exactly! I could have paid cash for my P85+. Instead I took a 90K loan at 1.5%, and bought $90K worth of stock. (I have since bought much more). That 90K worth of stock has more than doubled and paid the interest on my loan many times over....�
Sep 4, 2014
hobbes 1,035,923... congrats�
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