Oct 13, 2013
403portside Hi everyone
Let me start off with a bit of context. As a kid, the only car I ever really wanted was a Porsche 911. 3 years ago, I fulfilled that dream. It is the best car I have ever owned -- tons of fun, ridiculously fast, handles like a dream, beautiful, and reliable. If you would have asked me a couple of weeks ago about buying an American car that was electric, I would have laughed at you. I've been a snob about cars for years, and told myself I would never sway from german cars because nothing else would quite measure up (italian cars are nice but owning a ferrari or lamborghini just isn't me)
Now, I have been following Tesla for the last 2 yrs with interest. Not as a car I would particularly care to own myself, but more as a company that's trying to create a sea-change in the auto industry, and as a guy who has worked at startups for the last 13 yrs (and helped sell a few), I love what Tesla is aiming for and the success they've had to date.
A couple of weeks ago, I started reading a bit more about the car online. Especially this forum. And I was intrigued by how many people said that the Model S was the best car they've ever owned/driven. I was a bit surprised that these comments were coming from folks who were Porsche, BMW, and Mercedes owners. I started to read about the P85+ and was blown away by the reviews. So, last week I made an appointment for a drive, and yesterday at 11am I finally drove the P85+.
Reaction: WOW.
I put a deposit down about 45 mins later. It is unlike anything I've ever driven. I did my drive at the Burlingame CA store, flew through what I thought I might want color and options-wise, and said I'll give myself 2 weeks to fine tune the build. Right after, I went to the Palo Alto CA store so I could see some actual cars in various combinations to help me decide exactly what I want. To be honest, I AM STILL VERY CONFUSED! I did take another P85+ out for drive at the second store or some twisty roads and it just absolutely confirmed what a beast the car is.
So, here is what my initial order is:
P85+
Grey with grey wheels, black standard leather seats (non performance), obeche matte
Tech package, Smart air, sound package, panorama roof, parking sensors, fog lamps, carbon fiber spoiler.
Some thoughts/concerns:
- I love the grey with grey wheels. But my Porsche is seal grey, which is a bit lighter, and I've been living with it for 3 yrs and am worried that I might get tired of living with it on the Tesla. Also love the blue/grey wheels. Intrigued by MC Red, Diamond white, and Brown but not sure if I can live with them long term.
- I think I'm pretty set on the options. Anything I'm missing that you all recommend? I was talked out of the twin chargers.
- I still have to figure out how I'm going to charge my carMy highrise in SF doesn't seem to have outlets, but I will try to work with them to get one installed near my parking spot. We are looking for a home in the next couple of months so that problem will be eventually solved. This car will probably get used about 20 miles per week, so hopefully its OK not to leave it plugged in all the time for the first few mos.
- Having some trouble deciding between tan and black leather. I like the contrast of the tan but am worried about getting it dirty.
- All the performance seats worth the extra $$? I care less about the look, and more about the grip and staying planted in my seat.
- Both testers I drove had a bit of creaking from the dash area. This normal? Seemed liked it might be coming from the vents.
Well, that's it for now. I'm tired of typing. Going to try to hit the Fremont store today so I can see some different combinations and make my decision on a color. So hard�
Oct 13, 2013
simplesolar Having a 911 turbo myself previously. You'll love this car. I think the grey on grey is an awesome combination if you want to stealth look without the maintenance of the black car. Performance seat is really up to you. It does not provide additional lateral grip, but the red piping around the seat makes the interior more sporty. Sometimes you can find a loaner being built with the same config or similar config so you don't have to wait. Thats what I did and its great!�
Oct 13, 2013
bonnie Congrats & welcome to the forum! I'll let all the current Model S owners weigh in on what they think are the best options, but it sounds like you've hit what I care about and have loaded up on the performance options.
Regarding color and some of the other options ... to their surprise, many members here have found that their partner has commandeered their Model S & ended up ordering another Model S. You'll probably get a second chance to choose options in six months or so.�
Oct 13, 2013
texex91 Congrats! I came out of a string of three 911's (997, 991S, 991-4S) and came to the same conclusion after the test drive and ordered before I left the store. You will love the car--the P+ is nothing short of amazing. It's like driving (better) a 911 with 4 doors.
Enjoy it and the wait begins. Read through the forum as many of your questions will be answered over the coming weeks.
No sqeaking in my dash.
I'd go with black interior.
I wouldn't both with 'performance seats' - they are not like Porsche seats by any means--not worth upgrade.
Your options look good--may want to rethink 'upgrade sound' as it's not worth it IMHO--standard and upgrade aren't great.�
Oct 13, 2013
speedyellow08 I my opinion 911 turbo is a different league than Tesla. I have driven 911 turbo as a daily driver for more than 3 years ( owned many 911s before that) and bought a Scuderia and a Tesla. I drive Tesla as my daily car now. Biggest worry about Tesla is charging and range. It is constantly in my mind. Do I miss my 911? Very much. Do I rate 911 turbo better than Scuderia as a daily car?. Certainly yes. If you daily drive is 20 miles only and you bought a P85+?. You dumped lot of money for nothing. Just my 2 cent.�
Oct 13, 2013
403portside Thanks Tex. I'm the 911 guy from the 'GRRRRR' thread
I will think about the sound upgrade -- just don't want to regret it. Need to listen to both back-to-back.�
Oct 13, 2013
SwedishAdvocate @ speedyellow08
Didn�t you buy a 40 kWh that you just upgraded to a 60kWh? Not saying there�s anything wrong with that... But it�s probably not really comparable to a P85+ though�
�
Oct 13, 2013
Doug_G White with grey wheels looks absolutely spectacular IMHO. It's the config I would have taken had I not got the Sig Red.
You're in California so Superchargers are "everywhere". Probably okay.
Yes it is okay to leave it unplugged for days at a time. Just don't let it go flat. If you do have a plug, always leave it plugged in overnight.
Yeah, that's why I went with black.
Hard to say. If you're just driving on some twisties from time to time then it probably doesn't matter. If you're going to try it at the track, I pull the seat way back, tug on the seatbelt to lock it, then move the seat forwards until my eyes are about to pop. That locks you in pretty good. (I have "Load" and "Track" configurations in my menu for this purpose.)
I've not had that on my car.�
Oct 13, 2013
v12 to 12v Greetings from a household that has had at least one 911 in the garage for the last 30 years. At one point in time we had 3 in the garage, two for street use and one for the track. We are down to just the track car now.
I'm concerned about the fact that you have been talked out of the twin chargers. We are in the Pacific Northwest and higher powered charging stations are being put in by organized groups, cities and businesses at a surprising rate. Most of them are at recreational destinations, smaller cities on major routes and on scenic routes. I just got word that someone is planning on putting in high powered charging stations at a couple of the entrances to Yellowstone National Park.
We quickly got to the point that we will not bother with stopping at a charging station unless it is over 50 Amps. We have been spoiled by the fast charging that the twin chargers provide. I know of several people that had remorse when ordering just a single charger. Retrofitting is more expensive. I believe that twin chargers will help your resale value in the future too.
If you think that you will not be road tripping and finding a need for charging away from Superchargers or home, you might consider this: You may find yourself doing more Sunday drives, joy riding and taking the road less travelled once you get a Model S. We did.�
Oct 13, 2013
Cinematechs Awesome config, almost identical to mine except for the +. I went with the black interior for the same reason: dirt-- I have kids. The only drawback, the wait. Now, I regret not getting the + since it seems like an eternity at this point. Congrats!�
Oct 13, 2013
ecarfan I am also a Porsche owner who now has an S85 on order (silver with grey interior) through the Burlingame showroom. I got the twin chargers and the HPWC even though I will always have my car plugged in in my garage. Think long term. You are going to want to take your Tesla on long trips!�
Oct 13, 2013
vfx As I have said before, Porsche owners fall hardest.
There are CA laws that back your desire to put in a charge place at your building (in case they say no).
Your 20 miles per week estimate is way low! In your first few months of ownership you will be asked for and willingly want to give rides! Not till you give everyone you know and their friends and their friends friends, rides or drives in you new Model S will you get down to 20 miles per week. You may also find that "going for a drive" is something you are more likely to do. Figure an addition 20 there too. (mine was 40% in the first two years (Roadster))�
Oct 13, 2013
ojee99 20 miles per week, and living in CA? Beter not just take the bike? ;-)�
Oct 13, 2013
ByeEnzo I got my P85 8 months ago. Like most of you guys, I have lots of seat time in exotics. I had a 360 CS previously and currently own a Ford GT and a Carrera GT. The Tesla has the mind numbing acceleration of a supercar with the comfort of a luxury sedan. Car is a wonderful daily driver. I have no range anxiety since work is 30-40 miles round trip. I live in Fort Worth and a day trip to Dallas...no problem. I can confidently go to Houston, Austin, or San Antonio with the SC stations in Texas.
As for getting the P85"plus" version...is there a signif difference in performance vs a regular P85? I haven't driven a plus and it was not available when I ordered last fall. One perceived disadvantage is asymmetric tires. The rears are going to wear out first with any aggressive driving. I rotate the symmetric tires on mine every 3k miles and they seem to be wearing evenly.�
Oct 13, 2013
403portside Thanks for the great feedback everyone.
I should have clarified one thing: My 911 was a car that I bought a few yrs ago as a present to myself, for a decade of hard work slogging away at start ups and finally getting one of the companies sold to Google in 2010. It was always a weekend car. I absolutely don't need it and it's not financially rational, but rather emotionally rational. The P85+ will *replace* that car. I certainly don't have a commute and don't need an EV, but I want it and I've continued to been lucky to have success since 2010. Also, we are expecting our first child in March and so it's nice to have another (safe) car aside from our Q5 that a carseat could fit in�
Oct 13, 2013
Jason S Ahh, might want to get the jumpseats for the little one then. P85+ will truly be the safest car currently on the market after the jumpseat upgrade (I recall a crash revealing the jumpseat upgrade comes with a reinforced rear bumper).
Regarding sound system, many good things have been said about the Reus aftermarket system. You could get the standard sound then upgrade with Reus.
I like the performance seats, but the standard are good too.
Regarding color combinations; there are many threads showing off the colors and the design studio is good enough. Maybe let your partner choose the color?
20 miles per week? You could leave off a charger altogether and just have lunch near a public charger weekly. Make it a lovely weekly event. :smile:�
Oct 13, 2013
SFOTurtle What is your daily commute and what battery pack do you have? Someone in this thread reported you had a 40 pack and were considering upgrading to a 60. Assuming you still have a 40 pack, that is an entirely different ballgame from a P85+ on every level, including range. Wondering why you would have range anxiety?
Still, people are funny with range anxiety beyond rationality sometimes. I have a colleague who's had an 85 for four months, and doesn't seem to get just how far can go when fully charged. He was a bit nervous a couple weeks ago when he had to do an airport run to SFO....He lives 25 miles from SFO. He had about 180 rated miles to start and was worried. I reassured him that he'd have around 100 rated miles when he returned home even if he drove at 80 mph. He ended up having well over 100 rated miles and was reassured -- again, and again said he felt silly for even wondering. There are folks who just will worry even if there is no rational reason to.�
Oct 13, 2013
GSP Congratulations on your order.
A standard 120 V outlet should be fine for 20-40 miles per day. I would go with that at your current residence, and install 240 v charging at your new home. Consider the HPWC, so that you can keep the UMC in the car for mobile use.
GSP�
Oct 13, 2013
texex91 Could not disagree more. Who cares if you drive 5 miles or 50, getting a P+ is a perfect car. Aren't you coming out of a 40S? Why don't you have a P+
You really will love it--and still be able to transport family when needed. I always forget I'm in a 4 door as the P+ suspension and handling is simply amazing.
Most Tesla owners do--I certainly found myself doing that. How can you not want to go drive it more...
Well said--and all too true!�
Oct 13, 2013
speedyellow08 Yes I upgraded to 60kW due to the fact my 40kW did not have a twin charger and my work place do not have charging facility. Due to my job which sometimes required multiple round trips in short span of time (each round trip is 60-70miles). I did not want to spend $$$$ on P85+ and use it to commute back and forth to work. BTW nothing wrong with the car.
- - - Updated - - -
40kW did not fit my life style so upgraded to 60kW. I understand P85+ has a better range but my opinion was he spend lot of money for 20 mile a week commute.
�
Oct 13, 2013
lolachampcar I am sooooo glad to hear you found your way to the grin inspiring KoolAid.
First MS was Silver/Grey/Grey P85. Sold it to get the + and went Red/Black (was worried about Black in S. Florida.. Turned out to not be a problem for the AC).
I drive 60-90 miles a day and charge every few days. I have dual chargers but only really charge fast when caught off guard on an unexpected trip requiring more range than I have on that day. Cheap for the piece of mind in my case.
I'm not sure you can get a + without the air suspension. Now that I have had a few months to drive my wife's coil spring S85 back to back with my air P+, I remember just how big a fan I am of springs. The ideal for me would be coil spring P+ with lowering springs to provide the same (roughly) ride height as Low to Standard on active air.
Heads up on tire wear if you've not already seen the posts. Active air cars carry around -2.2 degrees of rear camber which is not adjustable. Think of a 911 with lowering springs and that's what you have. Longer upper links fix the problem bringing camber back to the -1.2 degrees typically seen on coil spring cars with higher ride height but then you have the issue of the links not being stock Tesla bits. There is plenty of toe adjustment so, unlike the GT3 links, you will not need new toe links with MS.
My wife has all leather seats while my + came with sport seats. No difference for me and probably prefer full leather seats over having alcantera inserts so I would not go out of my way to pay for the inserts (sport seats).
Not sure my opinion counts as I was a BMW guy, not Porsche although you would have to live under a rock not to appreciate the 911tt�
Oct 13, 2013
DIL First Congrats on all the great stuff happening in your life. Like you, I moved out of the city (SF) a while ago. Now with multiple kids, I find it just amazing that the MS will allow me to have my cake and eat it too! I'm planning on ordering mine as a birthday gift to myself.
Every time I start waffling about the color, I see a Grey/Grey and I remember how stunning it is. Definitely the best color and low maintenance too!
Definitely black interior. As others have said, sports seats just aren't worth it because the microsuede isn't placed in spots where it would help keep you from sliding around in your seat.
BTW - Between @texex91 and @lolachampcar, you have the two of the best advisers on Tesla Motors Club.�
Oct 13, 2013
cfOH My P85+ is gray/gray with black performance seats and carbon fiber interior (to match the rear spoiler), tech, and pano. When I ordered, parking sensors weren't available and most options were bundled with either the tech package (e.g., lighting) or the Performance package (e.g., air suspension). I am still completely happy 2.5 months in. I was a serial Porsche owner as well and the P+ is exhilarating in a way no P-car ever was for me (I never owned a Turbo or GT3, though ;-).
The only downside to the gray is that you get a lot of people thinking it's an Aston Martin, and you have to educate them. It's tough work being a Tesla owner sometimes. :-D
Good luck!�
Oct 14, 2013
DIL Here's why it shouldn't be confused with an Aston Martin.
It. is. Way. Better. (in grey): Tesla Model S takes on the Aston Martin Rapide S in the ultimate luxury saloon battle - YouTube
MS P85+ should be the next "Bond car". Who's with me? @texex responding in 3...2...1...�
Oct 14, 2013
texex91 Sorry for the late response :biggrin:
P85+ would make an awesome Bond car.
Now have we gotten further in formulating YOUR +??�
Oct 14, 2013
lolachampcar currently working on an Aston convert. It's killing him as his Aston is less than a year old. He sees the light, it just looks like the depreciation train right now�
Oct 14, 2013
Jeeps17 FWIW, +1 to the awesomeness of the grey-grey combination.
I regularly get compliments on the appearance of my P85, and will miss my 21' rims when I have to switch them to the winter 19' set.
This being said, even though grey is lower maintenance that black or dark blue, I have never washed a car as often as my S this summer... It just looks that good!�
Oct 14, 2013
403portside Ugh guys --- charging is becoming a real blocker. So bummed. I'm looking into various options (chargepoint) etc and it looks like my only option is going to be a 110v in one corner of my condo garage, that I can use here and there. I really want to order the car but am bummed about the limiting charging options. Our high rise garage is actually owned by an independent 3rd party (not our HOA) so my HOA has limited control. I've asked the garage owner to see if I can add a 240v outlet at my expense, still waiting to hear on that.
The 110v will *probably* serve my needs in the short term, given it's a weekend/fun car and I dont have a commute, and we have an Audi Q5 for real heavy duty stuff. Wondering whether I should just have fun with it and order the car now, or wait until we we buy our house (as soon as a month to several months, bay area real estate sucks!).
Anyone know of a good/cheap way to charge publicly in the SOMA area of SF?
thanks.�
Oct 14, 2013
EMDoc 403 -
Congrats! You will be very happy. I have had a gray on black w gray wheels since March and I love the stealthy look. I had matte black vinyl placed over some of the chrome bits as well. very subtle. It's too bad the "+" wasn't available when I got the car...but I am looking to retrofit.
Also, got rid of an '09 997S and '11 M3 Sedan. I miss the handling of the M3 but hope that the retrofit on my car will take care of that issue.
I think you should go with the black interior. I got lacewood and am happy with it. One last thing about sound...I got the upgrade and was not happy with it so had Reus upgrade the audio. It is hands down the best audio system I have heard in any car I've owned at this time. The speakers that Tesla uses are surprisingly very very good. It's just that the audio needs to be tweaked a bit. So, I would rec the upgrade as you get a sub and better speakers. Music is a big deal to me though...so try to get to the store and listen to the upgrade vs standard.
Enjoy!�
Oct 14, 2013
Owner I lived for a bit with 110. Wasn't a problem but that would depend upon how much driving you do daily.
Living With 110V | Tesla Owner
�
Oct 14, 2013
Gizmotoy With 3MPH charging at 110V and no commute, you still may be fine depending on your most common use cases. Even if you completely drain it on the weekend, it'll still be charged up by the following Friday ready for another weekend of fun.
More than 200-some miles on the weekend with no trips near a Supercharger will be trouble for you, though.�
Oct 14, 2013
DIL Grey with grey. My favorite.
These pics came from Craig Froehle's Google+ page. He also has a great post on why he bought a MS (8/11/13) https://plus.google.com/photos/103183570053193175186/albums/posts/5911089271115129778?pid=5911089271115129778&oid=103183570053193175186�
Oct 14, 2013
ModelS1079 No brainer for me. Sound is key. Better is better, and why cut on sound? Option B: aftermarket sound upgrade. But I am a simple man, and opted to let Tesla upgrade my sound.
Pano Roof a joy. Though I'd just mention that. Hope and expect you'll enjoy the process.�
Oct 14, 2013
DIL �
Oct 14, 2013
Gizmotoy I've said it before, but I wish the grey was just a little bit darker. If it were, I'd have ordered one of those instead of the red. Looks sharp with those wheels.�
Oct 14, 2013
purplewalt Agreed.
Like the MC Red, the Pearl White, the Green.
Absolutely LOVE the Grey with Grey wheels: what a sharp looking vehicle.�
Oct 14, 2013
NoMoDinos Mmm. Now that is a sexy car. Perfect lighting, reflection off the mirror polish, grey on grey... "She makes me feel kinda funny."�
Oct 14, 2013
dennis I have about 5000 miles seat time in my P85 and now almost 1000 miles with the P+ suspension retrofit. So I have been able to compare the exact same car with the two different suspension options. The difference is like NIGHT and DAY. The P+ suspension feels so planted and confidence inspiring, while the standard suspension feels a little "nervous". The P+ does exactly what you tell it to do with the steering wheel, while the standard suspension adds its own embellishments like the rear end wiggle when doing quick lane changes on the freeway.
I enjoy driving fast but was never confident enough in the P85's handling to drive it over 85 mph. I've tested the P+ to 105 mph and it is rock solid. You may never care to go that fast, but for me it is nice to know that the P+'s handling behavior does not change as road speed increases.
I'm now convinced that the P+ is the world's best handling luxury 4 door sedan - better than BMW, better than Mercedes and better than Audi. You won't be disappointed if you order a P+, but you might be if you don't. :biggrin:�
Oct 14, 2013
brianman Damn you, dennis.
You're like the retrofit version of tex with this post.�
Oct 14, 2013
DIL +1:"world's best handling luxury 4 door sedan"�
Oct 15, 2013
lolachampcar and if you have an early ViN or a sig like dennis, you will love the P+ conversion that much more.�
Oct 15, 2013
texex91 Making my job much easier--and YES DIL, listen to him! It's all true, so why wonder later...�
Oct 15, 2013
SwedishAdvocate As I understand it, there are bulletproof laws in SF/California put in place to enable you to charge your EV regardless of your parking situation. Since I live in Sweden, I don�t know the specifics, but many on this forum are very knowledgeable. And it�s not unusual at all that someone in the know would have chimed in by now and posted something helpful. The amount of content posted on TMC has increased though... But if you (cross)post a more descriptively titled thread about specifically this issue here:
California
�or here:
North America (in the Charging Standards and Infrastructure part of the forum)
�my guess is you�ll get some feedback.
You can of course also try searching the forum.�
Oct 15, 2013
DIL ^+1
in addition @403portside, we are fortunate enough to live near Tesla HQ, Tesla factory, and the best EV/supercharger infrastructure in the country (maybe the world?). I know from personal experience that dealing with condo associations in SF is painful, but you should be able to manage just fine with public stations and 110V considering how few miles you plan to drive. And when you move into a house with your own garage, you will have a personal "gas" station that fills up your car every night! Consider me a convert.
- - - Updated - - -
I'm listening @texex91. In fact, I spend every waking moment thinking about it. I've managed to dispense with every possible reason NOT to get a + except:
(1) My wife - Working on it. She'll get there, if only to shut me up. I've taken to sending her a "TEOTD" with a daily feature on why we must buy an MS. TEOTD=Tesla Email Of The Day! She's really cool and supportive, actually.
(2) Tires - I think it all comes down to this. I commute ~90 miles daily (ironically I pass the Fremont factory on my way to the office not far from Tesla HQ in Palo Alto). As you might imagine, it's a grind, with lots of stop and go and bad traffic. From everything I've read here, rear tires will last 6k to 12k miles at best (using @lolachampcar's suggestion to rotate rear tires left-right, ignoring unidirectional markings). That means swapping tires 3x/year for $1000 every time?? Just kills my TCO and my soul. If you guys can help me get past this one, I'm in. And don't say "You've got to pay to play!"
PS>Apologies for hijacking this thread.�
Oct 15, 2013
texex91 1) Wife you can handle--so I'm confident.
2) Tires. If you go with P+ there is no rotating them, due to different front back sizes (not sure about left right--I wouldn't).
Since you have a longer commute, I cannot think of a BETTER reason to get +...imagine the 'fun' time you can have with it.
The suspension and ride are that much different, and you certainly do not want to wish later you had gotten +.
Tires can be changed and it comes down to your driving habits. But, yes, if you want the best you will "have to pay to play"---wanna play???�
Oct 15, 2013
DIL Damn you're good. Who ARE you? Wait, is this Elon trying to single-handedly drive up TSLA shares?
True that the whole reason I'm even considering a $100k sports sedan is because I spend 3 hours a day in the dang car. So additional fun factor is a good argument.
Back to tires: What I meant about tire rotation was to swap the left rear tire with the right rear tire (not front to back) to help with asymmetrical wear pattern that has been described due to aggressive camber. Also sucks that there are so few choices when it comes to replacing tires this size. The selection really comes down to those sticky, but pricey PS2's. I wouldn't go for Continentals or Pirellis. I wonder if Michelin will start producing more tires in this size? Can we have some AS/3's or even better, PSS, please?
Oh, and I meant to say that I like the clean new sig too. Very classy.
Update: My wife just put "Go to Tesla showroom" on calendar for Monday the 21st. Looks like we're in the home stretch, guys!�
Oct 15, 2013
texex91 Didnt take long with the wife--good going!
Now the tires. I wouldn't want any other tire on the +, the PS2 is downright mean. Sticky, planted, fat--you name it. Go drive the P+ and we'll be done here. Anyone wanna bet on this one??
We'll be waiting for you in the big boys sandbox...�
Oct 15, 2013
Cinematechs I'm so glad they didn't have a + both times I went to test drive. Otherwise, tex would have used his Jedi mind tricks on me. The force is strong with this one!�
Oct 15, 2013
lolachampcar DIL,
I've done the swap across the back thing with rear tires on other high negative camber cars. It has always worked well for me with zero issues on "Inside" being on the outside. I figure it is better to have 80% depth with on less rain groove then 25% with one more.�
Oct 15, 2013
NoMoDinos I for one am most definitely not going to bet you.
- the guy in socal out another 10k�
Oct 15, 2013
texex91 LOL :biggrin:�
Oct 15, 2013
lolachampcar there goes tex again pushing that P85+ crack. You go boy!�
Oct 15, 2013
texex91 It only takes one try...in this case a simple, innocent, P85+ "test drive" to 'crack' open that P(ower)+.
The first one is free�
Oct 15, 2013
staze I'll consider myself lucky as they did not have a P85+ the day I went for my drive. I tried bringing up the topic with the wifey again last night and her icy look took years off my life. :scared:�
Oct 15, 2013
simplesolar For those worried about tires. Do what I am about to do. Sell the 21" for $$ and buy 19" or 20" for cheaper tires and grippier tires (pilot super sport) = WIN WIN
Once you go plus you never go back�
Oct 15, 2013
texex91 Noooooooooooooooooo. 21" make that car, and the grip for the power of the + requires 21".�
Oct 15, 2013
ipryor I shouldn't be reading this thread. (I'm totally content with my P85...no reason to get a +...totally content!)?�
Oct 15, 2013
texex91 See what you have started 403
Close your eyes ipryor...now visualize that logo--you know the one, the one with that + at the end...come to the light...�
Oct 15, 2013
rrkessler I am so thankful that I didn't succumb to @texex91's unabashed pushing everyone to the P+. I'm in production and happy with the s85. Whew. You are amazingly seductive, but I have survived...�
Oct 15, 2013
Cinematechs Tex Vader, the force is strong with this one!�
Oct 15, 2013
rluciano
Really, I have a + on order but was thinking if it just eats tires, get BBS forged 19s and DOT-R tires.�
Oct 15, 2013
Cinematechs Oh no, I feel a disturbance in the force!�
Oct 15, 2013
David Rhee I'm late to the game on this thread, but here's my 2 cents on P vs P+. I had my P serviced over the weekend, and I had the P85+ as a loaner. I had not driven a P+ before, so I was not convinced about the handling differences... But after the weekend I am absolutely blown away by the huge differences in handling and stability the P+ has over the P. So, now I am having a mega remorse over my current P! Now I want a P85+!!!!�
Oct 15, 2013
CalDreamin Why do I keep humming this song when I read this thread? :biggrin:
Steppenwolf - The Pusher - Live 2008 - YouTube�
Oct 15, 2013
NoMoDinos Haha... I think you just killed his soul. To the pusher-man, it's like ordering a triple scoop sundae with the best ice cream, hot fudge and sprinkles, and then putting on a non-fat whipped topping substance.
I had the exact same song stuck in my head after tex's last post! On an unrelated note, Steppenwolf still performs? Who knew.�
Oct 15, 2013
CalDreamin Of course once you've succumbed to the pusher-man and got your P85+, this Steppenwolf song seems more appropriate
Steppenwolf - Born To Be Wild - YouTube
I got my first speeding ticket while this was playing on the 8-track. :tongue:�
Oct 15, 2013
dennis My best 8-track memory was listening to this famous Iron Butterfly song while driving cross-country to the promised land of California to start my first job. I never looked back!�
Oct 16, 2013
texex91 I will be referencing this post moving forward when people go, uh, I dunno know, maybe I should get a +, but....there is NO but.
Get the plus, otherwise David's post will haunt you :wink:�
Oct 16, 2013
lolachampcar dennis,
That was a throw back... I'd not heard that one in a long time.
I was thinking more magic carpet ride myself with a little driver's seat thrown in for good measure.
To all non-P+ out there with even a hint of remorse-
I'm well on the way to some suspension doctoring that just might yield the results we all want without the field update price tag. Let me know if you have modified any previous cars and are interested in playing with your S or P85. I'd like to get a small group of enthusiasts together to try some stuff and refine the ideas to more broadly functional and tested tweaks. I'm thinking a kind of open mods forum type deal.
Tex,
Keep up the good work�
Oct 16, 2013
ToddRLockwood Greetings. It sounds like you've already made some good choices. Here's my 2-cents...
- Absolutely go with black interior. Personally, I like the look of the Performance seats, with the red piping which adds a nice detail to the interior.
- I have not heard the new advanced sound system, but if it's anywhere near as good as the earlier Sound Studio option, I'd go for it. This is coming from a former recording studio engineer. Yes, it's expensive, but typical of cars in this price range.
- I would forgo the carbon fiber spoiler. The benefits are negligible, and it spoils the beautiful line of the rear valence.
- I have found the twin charger option to be handy for charging at Tesla service centers and stores at the 80A level. It saves you a lot of time if you are waiting for your car at a service center and want it topped off when you leave. It IS possible to get this option without the HPWC for your house. Just call Tesla sales and tell them you want the second charger, but that your house cannot support the HPWC due to limited panel capacity.�
Oct 16, 2013
DIL Ack! David Rhee - Thanks for your review and honesty. This kind of back to back comparison from an owner really makes me think twice. Are you going to upgrade?�
Oct 16, 2013
Gizmotoy I'm curious how much of it was the tires. Good tires are the single best handling upgrade you can make, and he was comparing the sticky tires on the 21"s with the hard-compound MXM4s on the 19"s. The better comparison is P85 21" owners vs. P85+.�
Oct 16, 2013
dennis @lolachampcar's P85 was delivered with 21" PS2's (they ran out of Continentals) and he sold it to buy a P85+. Tires help, but they can't overcome overly soft rear bushings.�
Oct 16, 2013
Gizmotoy Perhaps, but if you've followed his threads you'd know he's not completely happy with the + suspension either, and has stated that perhaps a slightly lowered version of the coil suspension with the lower control arms from the + may actually be the best combination. For example:
�
Oct 16, 2013
texex91
That's right---keep walking to the bright light...DIL the P+ is c a l l i n g you!�
Oct 16, 2013
johnnyd Score another one for texex91. P85+ ordered for March '14 Delivery. Grey/Grey wheels. Easy to justify the 10k extra after a short test drive being a long-time BMW guy. Painful wait period now.�
Oct 16, 2013
texex91
AWESOME JOHNNY!!! P+ in DA HOUSE!
You will not regret that decision, and you're right, the extra $$ is worth it.
Just curious why the wait until March '14?
P85+�
Oct 16, 2013
Gizmotoy Are you just inserting superfluous (subliminal?) P85+s into your posts now? :biggrin:�
Oct 16, 2013
texex91 Don't P85+ know P85+ what you P85+ are talking about P85+.�
Oct 16, 2013
johnnyd Struggled with the timing. Wanted '14 model year and figured maybe some other options/improvements might be coming soon.�
Oct 16, 2013
lloyds If you can swing that extra 10k, do it. You wouldn't regret it!�
Oct 16, 2013
Gizmotoy I did a bit of that. Tesla doesn't seem to time options/improvements with model year in any meaningful way so far, so I discounted that. Maybe they'll do a mid-model refresh like other automakers, but I wouldn't expect that for another year or two. With my November delivery, I have some concern about buying what is in the eyes of some future buyer, already a 1 year old car. Other automakers are already selling their 2014s, so a November 2013 already has a year of depreciation built into it right off the lot. On the other hand, my federal tax credit will apply in just a few months, vs. over a year if I wait until January.
So there's much to consider.�
Oct 16, 2013
lolachampcar Gizmo,
Dennis was responsible for a lot of the early looking into the whole suspension thing even before the + became available. His contacts provided a lot of the initial information/evaluation of the root feeling of squishy or discounted response in the rear of MS. He was/is well aware of the tire component. It is also worth noting that he went the whole sig to P+ conversion, dampers bars and all!
This may not be the place for it but I would like to start a discussion about feel versus absolute grip. I suspect the differences in absolute grip or slalom course time would not be that much different between a P85 and P+. Weight and tire size would seem to be controlling factors. For me, the real issue is feel and trust. Higher compliance in the P85 may actually give it more "grip at the limit" in the rear but it just feels disconnected and thus not trustworthy and not fun. Removing compliance makes the car feel much more stable and responsive thus more trustworthy and more fun.
I'm spending my time on these nuances as coming to the correct conclusions will drive decisions on mods or tweaks to MS. It is the fundamental reason I want to try stiffer rear bushings on a lowered coil spring MS. I think moving from air to coil will have the same impact on MS as it does on the E versus C Class AMGs. I know I prefer the springing on my wife's car to my P+ but miss the lower CofG and sticky tires. Now that a friendly source has will'd me some suspension bits to play with, I'm moving forward with getting adjustable spring perches and bushing "enhancers" made for my wife's car so I can try different springs, ride heights and focus on just the lower a-arms for bushing tweaks.�
Oct 16, 2013
johnnyd Agreed. The tax credit was a big issue too. I'm not expecting a model refresh but by Jan/Feb figured they would have some new features out there. If not, then it's a more painful wait but at least they will have run more cars through their production line.�
Oct 16, 2013
Gizmotoy My thoughts on the issue was that they just added a bunch of stuff for August orders/September deliveries, so there's probably not a high chance of more being available in January. Obviously I know no inside details.
Agree on all points. I love the handling on my Evo because it's communicative, stable, and predictable. It's not going to be challenging supercars anytime soon, but it *feels* like it could (though I have lapped a number of exasperated Z06 drivers unsure how they got passed twice by a big, clunky sedan with less HP). For daily driving I'd give up at-the-limit ability in exchange for communication & predictability. Indeed I believe this is why the air suspensioned P85 instantly felt "wrong" to me. I only have a Model S on the way because of the redeeming coil suspension S85 test drive I took. I drove a P85+, but felt the coil was nearly as good and that I could potentially match the P85+ performance for far less money (a $13.2k upgrade for me since I wanted smaller/lighter wheels eventually).
In any case, I'm extremely interested in your progress and perhaps eventually "testing" your findings on my P85. Too bad you're on the other coast or I'd let you tinker with my car instead of potentially angering your wife. Anyway, keep me in the loop!�
Oct 16, 2013
DIL The over the air updates are such a nice feature. When buying a new car you'll always be missing out on some kind of upgrade that's just a couple of months away, but at least there are cool new software features that trickle in over time, making your car feel new again. Mine is a 40th birthday gift to myself (holy smokes), and the wife is /almost/ fully on-board, so there's no such thing as too soon!�
Oct 16, 2013
dsm363 Definitely consider the P85. With such a long commute it really comes down to how much you want to spend on tires every year. If you are ok with $1,200 in tires three times a year then P85+ is an option. If not, you can still have a lot of fun with the P85 and still rotate tires.�
Oct 16, 2013
lolachampcar If I were facing those tire bill numbers I would strongly consider good (and less expensive) rubber on either the standard 19s or some aftermarket 20s.�
Oct 16, 2013
Gizmotoy Seriously. I have even more aggressive tires on my current car than what's on the 21"s, $1k a set, and I have 20k miles and 6 track days on them. If I was replacing them three times a year I'd be scrambling to change something.
Hell, you can put the same Contis from the 21"s on the 19"s for something like $800 a set and retain the ability to rotate them, reducing replacement cost and probably doubling life without sacrificing too much performance (though you probably shouldn't do that on a +, given the staggered setup is to reduce oversteer potential caused by the stiffer bushings).�
Oct 16, 2013
JST Heh. Same here, sort of. Who would have thought my mid-life crisis car would have 7 seats?
One thing that pushed me to act sooner rather than later was my feeling that a) the price on these is unlikely to go down in the mid-term, and in fact seems more likely to go up, and b) money is not going to get any cheaper, and probably will get more expensive.�
Oct 16, 2013
David Rhee
I really like the handling and sure-footed feeling of the P85+. :tongue: What I may go for is the retro-fit to a +, or follow what others are doing on the forum with after-market upgrades on suspensions and wheels. However, I will definitely be swapping out for winter tires during the snow season on the 19" wheels, and switch back to larger wheels during other months.�
Oct 16, 2013
texex91
�
Oct 17, 2013
DIL applause from tex!�
Oct 17, 2013
texex91 The applause is because I know you're going to order a +, so congrats in advance are in order. LOL!�
Oct 17, 2013
Gizmotoy Are you sure you're not working on commission? :wink:�
Oct 17, 2013
lolachampcar I'm telling you. He is a crack dealer in sheep's clothing.
Update
More crack please.�
Oct 17, 2013
Gizmotoy I've caught myself subliminally skipping over his comments in a couple cases because I've started assuming the content of the message. But now there's pictures, too!�
Oct 17, 2013
DIL gizmo, you and i are holdouts, so i expect redoubled campaign from tex. hold on to your hat!
- - - Updated - - -
403portside, where are you? how about an update?�
Oct 17, 2013
Gizmotoy I got an eyeroll GIF in my order announcement thread the other day for not upgrading. He's getting impatient!�
Oct 17, 2013
403portside Hey DIL,
I am literally FROZEN with indecision. On saturday when I spec'd the order I went from Burlingame to Palo Alto to look at as many combinations as possible. Then on Sunday went to Fremont factory to look at some more. Then yesterday, I went back to Burlingame to stare at more.
I literally cannot decide -- feeling like the finalists are (all with grey wheels) -- Grey, Pearl White, Blue. I feel like purely based on looks, the Grey really catches my eye -- but I'm worried that I'll get tired of it since my current car (Porsche 911) is also grey, albeit a lighter shade. BUT, I do plan to sell the 911. Also, MC red looks great to me indoors but a little to bright for my tastes in the sun.
I have until the 25th to finalize -- I'm very confident I will take every single minute until then to figure out what I want!
Option wise, I feel pretty good with my choices -- mostly leaning towards black leather but also liking tan in certain combos. A little back and forth on performance vs standard seats, the whether i want matte or gloss obeche.
Man, so much to figure out!�
Oct 17, 2013
texex91 DIL, what 403 HAS decided is that the P85+ IS the only way to go...so what are you waiting on? How can we help???�
Oct 17, 2013
NoMoDinos Tex - you are the ultimate high school guidance counselor. "I'm here for you, I just want to help you reach your full potential".
I'm still supsicious that you're wearing a red and white "T" badge, my friend�
Oct 17, 2013
texex91 But I am here to help :wink:
As to being a Tesla employee, hardly.
I bought my P+ in Austin just like everyone else.
I did buy a jacket that has a Tesla "T" on the front that is cool--and finally getting the season to wear it!�
Oct 17, 2013
jerry33 I think the sound system depends on whether you like distorted bass or clean sound. If you are a clean sound person then the upgraded sound system is great.�
Oct 17, 2013
DIL hooray! while we were all chatting on line you were out ordering the car of your dreams.
colors: FWIW i keep coming back to grey even though my existing car is grey too.
we are so lucky to live in the bay area. you may as well complete your tour by visiting the new palo alto showroom and the santana row store. i know it sounds weird, but it does give you a different feel to see the different colors in different environments. i learn something new everytime i visit.congrats again!�
Oct 17, 2013
Gizmotoy "Well, it depends. Do you like crap, or not crap? If you don't like crap, the upgrade is great."�
Oct 17, 2013
DIL It's the most reasonable 4 second mid life crisis car I can think of�
Oct 17, 2013
cfOH I'm not an audiophile. My headphones at home at $70 Grados and I think they sound great. So I've been happy with the base sound system, especially since HD Radio is included. FLAC off a thumb drive sounds really good to my ear, but as I said, I am not terribly discriminating.
Get the gray. You'll be pleased. It's got a lot of character up close and in person...changes color with the light...it's not something you're going to get tired of, I don't think.�
Oct 18, 2013
ACDriveMotor How did Tex miss converting you before it was too late?�
Oct 18, 2013
texex91 He must have bought a while ago :biggrin:
I've only been a member since Aug.�
Oct 18, 2013
ACDriveMotor I was in a similar boat with S vs. P. My recommendation is to avoid finalizing too early. Take your time to sort out what you really want P85+ and then make your changes and confirm. Confirming and then making changes adds stress to TM.�
Oct 18, 2013
DIL These not too subtle subliminal messages are working. Slowly eroding willpower....
ACDriveMotor - You're in the home stretch! 10/29! Excited for you.�
Oct 18, 2013
dejavo0 Yeah they sure are subtle. Let me help clarify... Get the damn p85+!!!!!
or else you will regret it and trade in your car in 2 months., wasting precious time and money. You're spending a lot of money anyhow, might as well go all the way!�
Oct 19, 2013
texex91 Looks like I have a new trainee in my P85+ enablers program...well done :wink:�
Oct 24, 2013
TylerCA My thoughts exactly with the seats�
Oct 25, 2013
DIL BUMP. Good thread. Any updates, 403Portside?�
Oct 25, 2013
ACDriveMotor A. Few. More. Days. Holding. On.�
Oct 25, 2013
texex91 I heard he bought a Porsche instead. NOT! I have not heard back from him on his build...
Long weekend, but next week will be a fun one!!�
Oct 25, 2013
DIL You're almost there! We're here for support anytime. Just don't forget us once you're in the driver's seat!�
Oct 25, 2013
ACDriveMotor I am looking forward to grin as relief. I guess I am no a patient waiter. I've been on an emotional roller coaster (rare for me) waiting for the car. I need to get myself re-grounded in the "I love this car!!" space. Reading the forums sort of helps. But you read a lot about problems people are having, both big and small. That ends up making me question whether ordering was good decision. For me I think it is a little easier to test drive a car, purchase on the spot and drive away. I look forward to forgetting all about that once I have my car.�
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