Oct 14, 2014
ACDriveMotor I find these spilt milk threads increasingly tedious and have vowed to stop reading them. Here is how this reads to me "I am well off enough to buy a fully optioned P85+ but now I don't have the very best. Poor me." Sell your new car, order a fully optioned P85D, move on and be happy. I suspect you could and would have paid $150K+ (your net after resale) for a P85D if they had offered it to you originally at that price.�
Oct 14, 2014
dsm363 I am driving a P85+ loaner now and it is awesome. Do I want it over the P85? Sure but not enough to spend the money right now. I missed the plus by 6 months but that was my choice. I don't hold Tesla responsible for that.�
Oct 14, 2014
DCWitt Amen!�
Oct 14, 2014
Brett
EXACTLY. Please people, understand that Tesla is trying to innovate as fast as they can. What is wrong with that? All the whining is a distraction for them. I am trading my S85 for a P85D. I waited until something better than the P85+ came out. Now it has and I am upgrading. If I wait a year and upgrade to a P85D next October, maybe something better will come out the next month... You can't have it both ways as an early adopter.
Give Elon and TM the support they need to quickly innovate. He's a real life Tony Stark. Stop trying to handcuff the man because you didn't time your purchase well.�
Oct 14, 2014
tga So you are proposing to spend a pile of money to enrich some lawyers, punish Tesla, and get what, exactly, for the other class members?
The only people who win in 99% of class action lawsuit are the lawyers. Class members get a penny or two on the dollar.
Nice to know that whiny little brats cut across all socio-economic levels.�
Oct 14, 2014
DieAbetic LOL at class action lawsuit. Please have your lawyer(s) look over your contract(s) with Tesla and get advice before rallying the troops.
I'll give you a hint: you aren't going to like what they will tell you.
Of course, you can always find a lawyer that will take your money no matter what the chances in court.�
Oct 14, 2014
MassModel3 I think we all knew your intent. No worries... :biggrin:
Every once in a while you read a thread that just makes you smile. As ridiculous as this one started, I've been really enjoying where it's gone!�
Oct 14, 2014
GoBlue88 You have GOT to be kidding. This is a joke, right? Or are you really this obtuse?
- - - Updated - - -
Truth. Holy cow.�
Oct 14, 2014
wk057 Is there any way I can start a class action lawsuit against such forum trolls?�
Oct 14, 2014
GoBlue88 Also truth.
I took delivery on May 29th of this year. The AWD and Autopilot announcements don't make me love my S85 any less, despite the fact that I could have had the same configuration as I have now plus Autopilot for the same price (don't need AWD). I'm still gonna drive it for 8-10 years because it is still the best car I've ever owned. And in 8-10 years when I get another Tesla, it'll be 8-10 years worth of new technology better.
- - - Updated - - -
Or by reasonable, even-keeled owners who understand just how profoundly idiotic it would be to attempt such a lawsuit.
- - - Updated - - -
I doubt most lawyers would even take this case. Well, maybe that 1 guy in Wisconsin...�
Oct 14, 2014
yobigd20 yo yo yo watch out yo, those mofos might have a Trace Buster Buster Buster.�
Oct 14, 2014
S1278 I think that as with most things the reality lies in between the two extreme points of view expressed in this thread.
This observation has been made a few times in this thread and some of the others, but this problem has its root in the fact that unlike "other" car makers, Tesla does not have a model-year cycle for the Model S. It's reasonable to expect that there will be improvements and changes from model year to model year. A buyer contemplating a car purchase in the spring or summer has the ability to buy the current model or choose to wait for the next year. Sometimes this works well, sometimes it backfires. But it's a customary choice.
By having uninterrupted production, and making changes in more or less real time, Tesla ends up with some people who feel like they got "caught" inadvertently buying the tail end of an outgoing model year that they didn't know was outgoing. It's not as simple as saying "you got exactly what you paid for" because while true, that's not the root of the complaint.
On the other hand, under the current business model, Tesla can't announce these changes in advance because that will chill orders which is one of the primary variables pushing the expectations that are pushing the stock price.
Because Tesla clearly doesn't and has never subscribed to a model year approach, there really isn't a lawsuit option here. Sure you can find somebody to sue Tesla but there's no viable legal claim. But you have to feel some sympathy for the people whose orders got accelerated into the pre-D window, or for people who took delivery just a week or two before the changeover. I wouldn't be surprised to see Tesla do something as a customer relations gesture, whether in the form of enhanced trade-in value or some other more sophisticated policy.�
Oct 14, 2014
Canuck I call BS on you not being "shy to spend several hundred thousands to get justice". If that's the case, you don't need a class action suit. Hire a lawyer with your money and start the action yourself. If you win then you will set a precedent for others. There's no reason for a class action when you are willing to fund the action yourself. But something tells me you are better at blowing smoke than taking action.
I could probably be considered a fanboy since I do really like the company but at the same time I have criticized Tesla on a number of issues (just as I have with my Vancouver Canucks but I am still a fan of them). I'm also an investor but I'm not that ignorant to think that this issue has any measurable effect on the price of the stock. Finally, I fully understand the meaning of a "satisfied customer" but at the same time I know that it's impossible for any high tech company to keep all of its customers satisfied given the rapid pace of changing technology.
My question for you is: Do you think that someone can disagree with you on this issue based on the merits without there being an ulterior motive?�
Oct 14, 2014
Smitty769 As a current customer service rep at a different company, it astounds me that customer service nowadays is judged more on "the customer getting what they want" rather than "is this a fair offer/compromise". Saying that Tesla is failing at customer service because you are upset (and possibly unreasonably) is rather short sighted...�
Oct 14, 2014
ACDriveMotor ...but I absolutely won't do the more cost effective and reasonable thing and buy the new car I want. Wow. Just wow. Mods please move all my unspoken thoughts to the snippiness thread.�
Oct 14, 2014
bonnie This. I blame the whole 'the customer is always right' of the past. Great approach for training folks,but customers who believe that are nightmares to deal with. I've had customers return obviously smashed tech equipment with the expectation that we would replace it because 'it's broken, obviously'.
The relationship with a customer and manufacturer is a two-way street. Communication by both is key. I see plenty of people demanding things, but I see very few considering that perhaps they are in the wrong. My personal experience has always been that if I'm reasonable, the company (whatever company) will be, too. That's generally worked well for me. Assume good intent on both sides and things seem to work out every time.�
Oct 14, 2014
breser There are indeed other reasons to do a class action other than how the legal fees are paid. While I think there's no merit to sue in this situation. I can clearly see that the poster threatening a suit wishes to change Tesla's behavior, not simply for himself but for all effected parties. But you're probably right and they'll actually do nothing.�
Oct 14, 2014
GoBlue88 Also, LOL at "justice".�
Oct 14, 2014
AMPd You should hold Tesla responsible
how dare they not give you everything you will want in the future... TODAY�
Oct 14, 2014
ACDriveMotor LOL!�
Oct 14, 2014
Majerus
You spend 140k on a car, then are willing to spend a few hundred thousand on legal fee's, however you bitch about the resale value of your car?�
Oct 14, 2014
mspisars Well said!�
Oct 14, 2014
yobigd20 yea really. you could buy several fully loaded P85D's for the amount of $$$$ it would take to back a class action lawsuit like that.
- - - Updated - - -
wow. imagine if you applied that to cars. "please replace my model S [because I intentionally smashed it up against a tree when I was throwing a fit about not getting 'D'/'Autopilot] because it's broken, obviously."�
Oct 14, 2014
SubroMan This is going to be grist for the dealerships' argument that they are required to protect the customer.�
Oct 14, 2014
mspohr When has a dealership ever been truthful with a customer by saying "Don't buy this car today, wait until next month."???�
Oct 14, 2014
wk057 I lol'd at that�
Oct 14, 2014
Uncle Paul Before threading a lawsuit, it is always prudent to have a competent legal opinion that you have a legal case.
While I understand the desire to always have the latest and greatest, once you accept delivery, the car is normally yours. I also picture that little girl in Willie Wonka screaming to her cringing Daddy "I WANT IT ALL AND I WANT IT NOW!"
Hope you and Tesla can work something out.�
Oct 14, 2014
SubroMan It was certainly foreseeable to all purchasers that Tesla would eventually incorporate driver assistance features like adaptive cruise, blind spot and lane departure. They are already state of the art in ICE cars. Similarly they have been talking about an all wheel drive Model S since the Model X with two motors was revealed in 2012. Buyers like me elected to get the car sooner instead of waiting for Tesla to add these perks. However, I too would be infuriated if the P85D with Autopilot came out on the heels of my delivery.�
Oct 14, 2014
tga Ask and ye shall receive...
�
Oct 14, 2014
Beavis A class action of two. Good luck.�
Oct 14, 2014
TexasEV I don't understand all this talk about how much less their new cars are worth. Cars are a depreciating asset, not an investment. They are meant to be used and enjoyed. Even the new P85Ds that recent buyers of P85s without autopilot wish they had waited for will depreciate rapidly as Tesla continues to innovate.�
Oct 15, 2014
huntjo Should we assume that this "montauto" guy who joined the forums just to post about this call action suit is actually none other than our own "montgomery626" who conspired with the lemon lawyer?
- - - Updated - - -
Also, I am proud to say I love driving one of the worst Model s's produced. The rest of you non sig owners are welcome�
Oct 15, 2014
CHG-ON I do agree with you completely and understand your frustration. I took delivery on 9-30. I am fortunate in that I really wanted an RWD car. I haven't had one in years and years so I don't personally have any complaints. But I can say that when running a business, they must create a cutoff point where they go from model 1 to model 2. If a company were to release the future info on development, we would all sit back and do nothing until that "ultimate" version came out...and it would go broke because there is always something better.
Very frustrating, I know. Look at phones and computers. Same story. Though a heck of a lot cheaper.
Coming from software, I have learned to live with it.�
Oct 16, 2014
mdevp This thread and others like it will keep happening b/c Tesla will add a feature when it sees fit. It's probably why no other manufacturers do so. If Tesla did, 4Q and possibly 3Q orders would dry up, stock price would tank and then orders would pile up for next years Q1/Q2 and repeat. I don't know is there's a good answer to all of this. Many angry people wanted Elon to give a hint or a heads up about the automated driving and dual motor. Then I can't imagine many orders being placed at all from September onwards. There's just really no perfect solution to all of this.�
Oct 16, 2014
stevezzzz Good point, Huntjo: I'm in the same boat. At least we got Sig Red. :wink:�
Oct 16, 2014
scaesare Well that's an interesting thought... but on the surface it doesn't appear to be so.
The email address he refers to (montauto at gmail), shows up as the registrant for the "montway.org" domain, which is the website for Montway Auto Transport, out of Illinois. The the name associated with that domain is "Mihail Mihaylov"
The Lemon Lawsuit guy was named Robert Montgomery, out of Wisconsin.
(I only post the above because montauto chose to provide his own email address himself earlier in the thread, and all of the resulting info is public information)
�
Oct 16, 2014
Beavis New cars get new features but my car will always be prettier.:love:�
Oct 16, 2014
AmpedRealtor Agreed, but if you want the latest, wait until the next reveal. That is the only sure way, right?�
Oct 16, 2014
dsm363 Yep. Sig red forever! (Or until the P100D comes out)�
Oct 16, 2014
Blu Zap Hey guys. Similar situation here. I took delivery of my P85+ on 9/30 at the factory. Thankfully I made the cut to get the new hardware. Too bad there are not "model years" where new features and options are known well in advance. I got a 2014 1/2 model, not the 2015. I can get over it as I am fine with the rear drive. Although I probably would have sprung for the D as I wanted the fully loaded version. Best now lasts longer!
What has me totally troubled is the $500 extra I paid for parking sensors. Non issue when I picked up at the factory. Every single car had all the parking sensors (and other new hardware) without paying the $500. Now they want to charge me another $500 to "activate" the new hardware. Wait a minute! Why do I have to pay $500 more than every other car delivered on 9/30 that did not pay for the parking sensors?
Ya I know, boo-hoo. A good problem to have. But you know, when you order top of the line, the top keeps moving up!!�
Oct 16, 2014
Chickenlittle whole situation reminds me of my long standing interest in digital cameras I had finally ordered the best Nikon made at an obscene price. The week it arrived was the same week Nikon announced a new camera. For a week, I had the best digital camera they made to get all options from tesla you would be trading in car twice a year. My first two cases of new feature envy were the cold weather package than the parking sensors. This was followed up with the AWD and autopilot. I have had my car for 19 months. Get used to it�
Oct 17, 2014
mspohr Presumably your parking sensors work without activation.
The rest of the sensors: camera,radar,ultrasound may require activation.�
Oct 17, 2014
AmpedRealtor To those who are concerned about the environment, trading up for a new Model S just to get new features is about the least green thing you could do. Keeping the car you have as long as possible is much greener because a new car doesn't have to be built and resources don't have to be consumed to build another car. I'm just offering another perspective, that's all.�
Oct 17, 2014
Canuck That doesn't make sense to me unless the old car is scrapped, which doesn't happen. In fact, placing all these used electric cars on the road will likely replace ICE vehicles, making trading up good for the environment (with the word "good" being a relative term only).�
Oct 17, 2014
yobigd20 Yea I don't agree with that at all. If you buy new and someone else gets your used then you've just displaced one ICE car on the road, so it's probably the *most* green thing you could do here.�
Oct 17, 2014
sfmskywalker Word. I bought my P85+ not only because it's a ridiculously awesome car, but also because I want to support the company that is truly making a change, and I want to be a part of that. I will be enjoying my p85+ for at least the coming year, and eventually upgrade to the D, or who knows, something else. Tesla, as with any other car maker, need to sell what they produce in order for them to be able to continue to innovate. If I may offer a suggestion, be grateful that you have a Model S, and are part of this huge change we are bringing forth, together.�
Oct 18, 2014
Lycanthrope I just don't get it. It had been strongly rumoured that a 4WD Model S was coming towards the end of the year, and open secret in fact. If it's such a big deal to those complaining then why didn't they just wait a bit?
The Autopilot stuff, yes that came out of the blue a bit, but still not a big surprise. Would have been better pre-announced by Tesla too, but we know how incredibly bad they are with their communications.�
Oct 18, 2014
AmpedRealtor Here are some interesting reads, both pro and con:
Better for the Environment: New Car or Keep the Old
Buying A New Car Is Greener Than Driving An Old One...Really�
Oct 18, 2014
bonnie +1
Just like other technology I own, I rarely upgrade to 'the next best thing', because there will be another and another and another. For instance, smart phone - I skip a generation or two. Or three. And I was mocked roundly at the office for months because I refused to give up my old laptop that was literally falling apart, because I was waiting out whatever new release was coming and I both knew that it would be awhile before I could justify another new laptop and I wanted the latest tech AND because the old one still worked just fine (though it was truly truly falling apart).
So with vehicles, especially electric vehicles, ESPECIALLY with a company like Tesla that is constantly innovating, I know I will rarely have the latest best thing. Roadster was, until the Model S came out. And Model S owners have watched one new feature after another be introduced, some enviously, some with acceptance that this is how technology advancements happen ... but it's inevitable, it WILL happen. And I'll get my Model X and be quickly out of date. And I'll eye all of you with subsequent innovations a little bit enviously, still enjoying my X ... and after about two, three, maybe 5 generations go by of advancements, THEN I'll spring for one more.
But I'm not giving up my Roadster.�
Oct 18, 2014
AmpedRealtor What we are seeing is only the beginning. As manufacturing costs continue to drop, more standard features and improvements will be added over time. Model S 2.0 redesign is probably only 2 years away, and that will be a mind blowing vehicle in my opinion. Instead of taking all of this rapid depreciation now just to get AWD (which I don't need) and autopilot (which I don't trust), I'll wait for 2.0 redesign which will have all of this goodness after it's been debugged by all of the early adopters. And yes, if you are buying for autopilot and AWD today you are an early adopter of those technologies.
Over time, Tesla will update, add, and improve the sensors that are shipping on existing cars. A rear-facing radar is notably absent from the current autopilot suite. The car can barely see one car length behind itself, which poses issues for lane change if there is a fast approaching vehicle in the lane you are about to change into. A rear facing radar will probably get added at some point, I think. Regardless, there is a lot more goodness in development than we could know about today.
If it suits you today, buy it, but don't get mad when it improves. Everything evolves.�
Oct 18, 2014
CHG-ON That's odd. I bought a fully loaded P85+, delivered 9-30 with the new HW, and there was no extra charge for the parking sensors. It was included in the (very high) price and I have had no activation fee. I would push the issue as it is ridiculous. The car already has all the equipment on it.
Go get' em!�
Oct 18, 2014
breser He's not talking about activating the parking sensors. He's talking about getting the convenience features of the sensors (things that aren't currently active on any of the cars). Seems that Tesla is going to ask people without the "New Tech Package" but with the old "Tech Package" to pay $500 to get those things.�
Oct 18, 2014
TexasEV Yes they will be charged $500 more for the tech package but also should be credited $500 for the parking sensors that are now included with the tech package rather than a $500 option, so it's a wash. This was explained in another thread.�
Oct 18, 2014
breser That's only if the car is still being built. My understanding is people that have already taken delivery will be charged $500 more for the convenience features.�
Oct 19, 2014
CHG-ON There was also no extra charge for the cameras or radar. My understanding is that they will activate those features through SW updates. I may well be wrong, but I have seen no indication of an additional charge after talking with my DS.�
Oct 24, 2014
ToddRLockwood I disagree. The customers you refer to ordered their cars weeks or even months before delivery. Tesla was under no obligation to treat them any differently. It is not uncommon for Tesla to deliver cars earlier than originally promised.
Apple faces very similar challenges when introducing new models, although in recent years leaks have tipped off the press in advance, so the buying public usually has a pretty good idea of what's coming. To Tesla's credit, they did an amazing job of keeping the AWD option for the Model S below the radar. This, to me, says that Tesla restricted this knowledge to as few employees as possible. It would not surprise me if Tesla's sales staff were among the last to know.�
Oct 24, 2014
S1278
You can certainly disagree as to who you feel sympathy for. But Tesla being under an obligation has nothing to do with my statement about sympathy. It would suck to be in their situation, which neither you nor I are. So we have the luxury of feeling sympathetic, or in your case not feeling sympathetic, for the fact that they missed out on some cool new features by a matter of a few days, weeks or even months. I agree there are no legal claims here.
Regarding Apple, it's fairly common for the phone carriers to offer accelerated discount upgrade opportunities to people with the "old" phones when the "new" phones come out. That's more to my point of sympathy and potential customer service gestures.�
Không có nhận xét nào:
Đăng nhận xét