Chủ Nhật, 1 tháng 1, 2017

Gonna bail - anyone else? part 1

  • Dec 14, 2015
    Jeva
    I think I'm going to bail on the X. Very likely I wouldn't be able to get one until mid to late next year (who knows with Tesla at this point) and I've been on the fence about spending $100k+ on a car even though I can afford it relatively easily. I grew up pretty poor and it just seems excessive. Opulence, I has it. Sure, it's a super cool car but in the end it's a mode of conveyance from point A to B. I have a motorcycle to thrill me with acceleration and for the money I won't be spending could add a few more :)

    Maybe in a few years. The S sits a little too low for my tastes (plus the $100K thing) so I prolly go another route and observe with interest. Anyone else opting out?
  • Dec 14, 2015
    fiksegts
    nope! going for the X... YOLO...
  • Dec 14, 2015
    Blastphemy
    We thought about bailing, but there's nothing else out there.

    We could buy out our leased Toyota Rav4 EV and get 90-130 miles per charge and have an actual SUV (not a CUV like the X is), but the Rav4 EV is a compliance car and we don't trust Toyota to support it. Plus it's had a history of technical glitches and we'd rather not wait for our turn to have it die on the highway.

    We could get the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... oh, wait - that's still not available in the U.S.! And the 2017 model (assuming it actually arrives) will reportedly only have a 12 kWh battery.

    We could get the Porsche Cayenne S eHybrid PHEV, but that has less EV mileage than the Mitsubishi.

    We could get the luxurious Volvo XC90 T8 Twin Engine, but its 9.2 kWh battery doesn't have enough all-electric range to get my wife to work and back without using gas.

    We could get the Mercedes-Benz GLE550e or BMW X5 xDrive40e PHEV, but those have worse EV mileage than the Volvo.

    We could get a Chevy Volt or Cadillac ELR, but those are compact cars and my wife wants an SUV. (If only Chevrolet or Cadillac had released an SUV Voltec in the past 6 years since the Volt was released! GM is so dumb.)

    We could wait for the Chevy Bolt, but that's really kind of a joke except for the range.

    We could get a 2016 Leaf, but that only gets 100 miles and it's also not an SUV.

    We could get the BMW i3, but that gets less mileage than the Leaf and also isn't an SUV (although it may actually sit as high as the Model X!! D'oh!)

    There is nothing else available (nor will there even be anything else available in the near term) that combines a 250-mile EV range with seven adult seats and insane 0-60 times. As much as I'd love to see the Infiniti QX60 get fitted with batteries, it ain't gonna happen. And all the "Tesla killers" from Audi, Volkswagen, Porsche, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, etc. that have been "announced" are more than two years away... if they're ever built at all.

    So Model X it is, even though it's not as big as we want, doesn't sit as high as we want, doesn't have some of the luxury features we want, and costs the same as a house. Hopefully in three years when our lease is up there will be an embarrassment of SUV EV choices. But for now, the Model X is the only game in town.
  • Dec 14, 2015
    Noone
    I cancelled my reservation a couple of days ago.
    Funnily enough I've received positive reputation since for "daring to speak up amongst all the fanboys" :)
  • Dec 14, 2015
    bonnie
    It always cracks me up when I see statements like this - plenty of critical threads on this forum (which by definition will attract the most ardent supporters), moderators keep it civil if forum members cannot - yet people act like they are a single warrior facing the infidels!
  • Dec 14, 2015
    Johan
    It's totally legit to cancel. Maybe not as totally legit to go in the investors forum and rant and post stuff like "Tesla will be bancrupt in 12 months" without any facts or analysis to back it...
  • Dec 14, 2015
    MrBoylan
    Nope. Clicked the "Order" button about 12 hours ago. :)
  • Dec 14, 2015
    aija SigX 649
    Not bailing ..but would be interested however in hearing what you ultimately decide to go with (assuming you are still in the market for a vehicle if you bail on the X) and how you look back on your decision say 1 year from now. Who knows, a lot can happen in a year. Could be helpful for folks on the fence and/or of the same mindset.
  • Dec 14, 2015
    Drax7
    Noone never had a reservation to start with , I predict .
  • Dec 14, 2015
    MrBoylan
    What he said. Pretty much exactly what he said. :)

    And yeah, there are vacation villas in the Poconos that sell for less. And I'm OK with that.
  • Dec 14, 2015
    MikeC
    Great call, $100k for a car is way too much.

    (Looks like I just moved up a spot in line for mine.)
  • Dec 14, 2015
    DDG!
    It's an interesting business model to miss deadlines, but still invite your customers to obligate themselves to purchase your product with little or no communication or detail on what they are purchasing.

    For a product that is selling for $80k+ --- all the more interesting.

    Was in Portland over the weekend and stopped by a Tesla store. Was able to easily have an extended test drive of an S --- but that's not the right vehicle for me for a number of reasons. The staff there were very nice, but I knew more about the X than they did (I logged in to my Tesla account and they looked at the X's design studio with me.)

    I was able to check out what the paint colors look like on the S --- but I'm not going to commit to a purchase until there are test drive opportunities for the X.

    Who knows? I may join you in bailing as well. Communication is not Tesla's forte.
  • Dec 14, 2015
    SmartElectric
    Excessive is relative. Our neighbours spend more on their lifestyles (home reno's, trips, extra vehicles) than we do, so we feel perfectly fine having a Tesla Model S in our driveway.

    You already said you own a bike (that you likely don't commute in) as a fun toy, so what's the big deal?

    So GLAD we got the Tesla earlier this year, makes all the winter road trips easier and more interesting. Never a dull moment, always someone wanting to know more about the car everywhere we go.
  • Dec 14, 2015
    MrBoylan
    Don't use no Double Negatives!
  • Dec 14, 2015
    tftf
    Worse EV range??

    The Outlander PHEV 2016 should get about 20-25 miles of EV range (using estimate of 33% less than NEDC). I'm pretty sure that's more EV range than the Volvo.

    Outlander has a 12kWh battery while Volvo's is only at around 9.2kWh iirc.

    And it's just five months away (May 2016) for buyers in NA.

    I would also argue it's a bargain and more refined (mid-cycle update for 2016 version) compared to other PHEVs.
  • Dec 14, 2015
    AB4EJ
    I struggled with the "X Question" also - my direction at this point is that I plan to order a Model S this spring (after the LEAF goes back), and drive that for 2 - 3 years - by then the Model X should have settled down (initial bugs worked out in product and process, and order queues of a reasonable length) - then trade in the S for the X, if I still want the X. Who knows, I might decide the S has everything I want (still, therefore I would need to retain my SUV for trailer towing, argh)...
  • Dec 14, 2015
    flankspeed8
    I cancelled towards the end of last month and just received the credit card refund. Reservation had been placed December of last year so I was toward the end of the line anyway.
  • Dec 14, 2015
    aesculus
    Still in Limbo Land on ordering. Want folding second row seats. Need to do a comparison between X and S (moving between the two) to decide if should (could) jump to the S or wait out Tesla for the folding seats on the X. It may be moot to even have a reservation at this point unless you are going with a P or have an early order 90D.
  • Dec 14, 2015
    CmdrThor
    My order confirms tonight. Couldn't be more excited. Wish I could sit in one and drive it prior to confirming, but I don't want to delay delivery any more than it already has been so such is life.
  • Dec 14, 2015
    Cobra Kai
    I'm still on board... if it was totally up to me I would have hit ORDER and then CONFIRM 2 seconds later... but the Mrs. has to be fully onboard to pull the trigger. Hoping its this week. To me personally, there isn't really another option. We always talked about getting a luxury SUV now that we have 2 kids (1 year old twins) and when you price out the Q7's or Escalades or X5's your already at 70-80k... and you live at the gas station. I'm at the point where I don't want to drive a gas car ever again - this 3 year wait has made it painfully more evident. I plan on having this X for a very long time with hopes of only having to do a battery upgrade in the future to increase range, so to me, the price is justified. Paying a lot up front for years and years of enjoyment for the whole family.

    Audi says it has an electric SUV that will rival the model X... and it has 4 seats! Where are you going to go on road trips? rely on destination charging? have fun with that. And it's more than 2 years away. Same goes for Porsche, their 4-seater mission E will compete with the S, not the X.

    All in all, Tesla offers a more complete package and everyone I know who has a S says its best car they ever had. It's time to get on board. The price hurts for sure, but to me in the long run it will be worth it!
  • Dec 14, 2015
    Jeva
    The reasons I was originally interested was:
    1) I'm a techie and love the tech features of the car with the large touch screen,etc
    2) Loved the performance/acceleration
    3) it definitely has a cool factor.

    I don't care about it being electric per se when it comes to mitigating the cost of fuel - even less so now that gas prices have dropped. I really have no interest in any other electric/hybrid car.

    Currently looking at the Audi SQ5, MB GLC300, Porsche Macan and somewhat oddly the Acura RDX which is a great value if you stack up the features against the others. I've had a number of BMW's and I'm tired of them. The interior hardly changes year after year, even across models. I feel like I keep getting the same car over and over with them though I love the way they drive.

    I'll probably check out the Tesla's in a few years
  • Dec 14, 2015
    Aljohn
    I clicked the order button last week, and plan to take delivery sometime in early 2016. As I learned more about the state of the planet, in good conscience, could no longer drive a ICE SUV. My prior choice was a Audi Q7 TDI, buying into clean-diesel technology's reduction of CO2 and NOx. However, after VW's falsely using software to cheat emission standards, rewarding VW (parent of Audi) by buying a $85,000 2016 Q7 is not something I will do. There should be a economic penalty for VW's behavior -- beyond firing the CEO.

    Two years ago, after investigating, reading, learning of all affects of CO2 on the environment and oceans, I made the commitment to do everything, however small, to make a difference for my children and grand-children. That's when I reserved a Model X. Sure the Tesla X is later than promised, and cost more than I have ever paid for a vehicle, but it is the only alternative in my opinion.

    If my grand-children ask, why didn't my generation do something more, I can at least say I was part of Elon's vision for a better planet and Tesla's attempt to bring the end to ICE vehicles ending what Elon says is "the dumbest experiment ever". Finally, 200 countries have agreed to reduce the rise in global warming 2 degrees or less in Paris.

    I am realistic, one EV won't make a large difference, but just as Model S has signaled to BMW, Mercedes and Audi to abandon ICE technologies in favor if EV's, then it is a strike greater than one Model X. I implore all those here to stay the course. Elon has risked everything to make the planet safer. If not a Model X, then an EV, hybrid or extremely fuel efficient vehicle. The Earth needs all of us.
  • Dec 14, 2015
    aija SigX 649
    Yep, that explains it
  • Dec 14, 2015
    BriansTesla
    No canceling here and I completely agree with the above. Might as well put my money where my beliefs are. Honestly it feels a little sick to see ICE vehicles everywhere knowing what they are doing to the planet.
  • Dec 14, 2015
    gjunky
    Not cancelling right now. We want a 90D and don't see any reason to confirm right now and being locked in while I have to wait for 6 months. This will give us a chance to see the car in person and I imagine will only delay my delivery by a couple weeks at the end. I checked with Tesla and there doesn't seem to be any pressure to finalize soon so I will just wait.
  • Dec 14, 2015
    jerry33
    I thought long and hard before purchasing my S85 as the previous most expensive car I purchased was $30K--and I thought that was high. I've now had it for almost three years, I don't regret one penny of it.
  • Dec 14, 2015
    gene
    I ordered my Model S back in September 2012, received it in April 2013. The previous most expensive car I had bought was $26,000. I went back and forth during sleepless nights at spending $82,000 on a car. Since the day I received the car all the way to today and beyond, I am soooooo happy I went ahead with the purchase. I could never, ever drive an ICE again. The moment the Model 3 is available for deposit, I am putting down two deposits. One for my wife, one for my son.
  • Dec 14, 2015
    TexasEV
    You don't need to spend $100,000 for a Model S. You can buy a great 70D in the $70's, and don't forget that means not ever buying gasoline for a car.
  • Dec 14, 2015
    stealthology
    Very interesting to see the shorts showing up on the X forum. We are at the largest shares sold short in 2+ years.
  • Dec 14, 2015
    ohmman
    What gjunky said. Precisely.
  • Dec 14, 2015
    lucy
    I cancelled my mid 15K Model X reservation and ordered a Model S in early September, took delivery on Halloween.

    I am very happy with my decision, I love driving my MS, and with the back seats folded it is huge inside (and out!).
    Maybe with the air suspension the height issue could be addressed, or consider customization?

    I looked at the CPO inventory, but couldn't find the blend of options I wanted and the price differential wasn't much.
  • Dec 14, 2015
    alphabravo
    The fact is this: Tesla Motors is a mere infant compared to the likes of GM, Ford etc. Having said that, (in my view) they are the most revolutionary addition to the automobile industry since Henry Ford introduced the concept of the assembly line on December 1st, 1913. 102 Years ago. Think about that for a second.

    If you are discussing on this forum and in this thread then you likely have the means to purchase on of these vehicles which would allude to the fact that you likely have the intellect to understand the enormous up-hill battle that the company faces each and every day. Cancelling your MX order is perfectly fair - the wait has been long and the journey has been anything but smooth. I get that. But the reward is so much greater that we can possibly know.

    At the end of the day, keep your oder, cancel your oder, change to a MS, it doesn't matter - Tesla makes the best vehicles in the world. Period.

    For me, the argument is simple: If you have the means to consider buying a Tesla, then buy one. X or S, it doesn't matter. It is proven to be the safest car in the world. If there is a 0.001% chance that me driving a Tesla over my previous car could save my life or lessen my injuries - or those of my family and loves ones - in the event of an accident, then it is worth the money, the wait and everything else that comes with being a follower of the company and product.
  • Dec 14, 2015
    Beryl
    Ditto except I bailed in November. Tesla transferred over my reservation money and I now have a new Model S 90D.

    I will likely get the next generation of Model X with the newer autonomous driving equipment in a 6-8 years unless Apple offers something competitive.
  • Dec 14, 2015
    Cyclone
    If it wasn't for the bolded part, I would say to get a CPO S.
  • Dec 14, 2015
    Canuck
    I hear you loud and clear and have been there and done that. I'm not a car person and $100k plus $15k tax when I bought my car gave me a ton of second thoughts, even though I don't even notice the missing cash (but have constant fear of being poor having grown up poor). But what kept me on course was a moral obligation I felt to future generations by doing my very small part to help ensure Tesla succeeds. We need to get off fossil fuels and if you have the resources I feel we have a moral obligation to do our part, and I justified my purchase in this manner. It was also important for my legacy and for my kids to be able to tell their kids that we had two electric vehicles (Tesla and Leaf) when barely anyone had one.

    Then after I got it, any and all doubts I had vanished immediately. In fact, I'm looking to upgrade and that's totally unlike me. But what the hell, we can't take it with us so I tell my kids I'm spending part of their inheritance on driving the future, today. All for their future, of course... :wink:
  • Dec 14, 2015
    EMdoc12
    I bailed as well when I found a nice Sig Red S to hold me over for another year or two. I was so far down the list though as I had only ordered at the beginning of October. I didn't even have a res number. So anyways. No big deal. I'm sure I'll get one at some point.
  • Dec 14, 2015
    macpacheco
    A few hundred Model X cancellations won't make a dent in Tesla results for 2016. Model X sales will be production constrained for at least the next 2 years.
    Tesla will succeed. No need for pro Tesla religious fundamentalism to get there.

    BEV success (taking over most cars) depend far more on other car companies taking BEV seriously (and figuring out how to make dealerships effectively sell BEVs over ICE). Even if Tesla eventually sells millions of cars / year, that's a drop in the bucket for worldwide car sales.
  • Dec 14, 2015
    JohnSnowNW
    Closest dealership to me said that they wouldn't receive the PHEV Outlander until Q4 2016, at the earliest. I have seen the May 2016 published various places online...but not confirmed anywhere.

    Perhaps only select markets will get the Outlander PHEV this coming summer...or Mitsu has delayed again.
  • Dec 15, 2015
    mzpolo
    No way are we cancelling! our order confirms today! This is our dream car. Not because its an EV, but because it is the most "luxurious" by our measure. We wanted to get our dream car while we could still enjoy it. Dad got his BMW too late in life and never got a chance to realize what he was really driving.
    Yes, the Tesla costs more than a years salary for me. Yes, it is crazy extravagant. We have saved and plan on enjoying the hell out of this car.
    For those who cancel because "its too much"... I applaud them for maintaining a strong sense of what is valuable to them.
    For those who cancel because "the seats don't fold flat" or "it doesn't tow enough"... not so much applause.
  • Dec 15, 2015
    MrBoylan
    Right there with you. If there were no X, we'd probably just keep our Highlander Hybrid for another 5 years (or more). It was the first new car we bought. The X will be our second. Can't wait! Good luck getting "final approval." :) What helped for us was going to one of the local Tesla stores and looking at the colors and options on a bunch of inventory and CPO Model S cars that they had on hand. Without actual Xes around to get in and drive around, seeing the Ses in person was the next best thing.
  • Dec 15, 2015
    Drucifer
    I like my strategy.

    Wait until sometime after they deliver 25-30k of them, THEN put in a reservation.
  • Dec 15, 2015
    ohmman
    I'd argue that those are more integrated than you think. That is, "it's too much.. for a vehicle that can't meet my needs." For some, fold flat seats are a huge deal because of their usage. And for others, towing. A strong sense of what is valuable to a horse owner is a car that can tow a horse trailer.
  • Dec 15, 2015
    sub
    Agree, and let me guess who the rep points probably came from.
  • Dec 15, 2015
    Jeva
    Thanks for everyone's input...interesting to read. I have not canceled yet and won't until if and when I find an alternative. I might go back and sit in the MS again but my wife and I both have bad knees (sports injuries, many surgeries between us) and climbing out of a low car is quite literally a pain. This is why I was thrilled that there was an SUV in the works at the time we originally scoped the MS. I still feel like it's a lot of coin to spend but likely I would end up feeling like many of you that it's totally worth it. It about killed me to build a $1.3M house but I absolutely love it and a house is not a depreciating asset (long term). The ironic thing is, my wife is a financial planner and she's all for it. :rolleyes:
  • Dec 15, 2015
    Cyclone
    If it's any consolation, my dad has a bad knee and my mother has spinal damage. He had a VERY hard time with my VW EOS because of bending down, but he also struggled with my 4Runner. My mother was only ok with both. She has no problem whatsoever with the S.

    Not trying to sway you one way or the other. I agree that you should just try it again and see how you feel. Good luck!
  • Dec 15, 2015
    Merrill
    I have had both my knees replaced and keep my Model S in the low setting and do not have a problem getting in and out.
  • Dec 15, 2015
    Mark Z
    A great response. Safety is a huge reason I am willing to withdrawal funds to purchase Model X. I have always wanted an electric car, and the Segway, Volt and Model S were a fantastic start to a maximum acceleration, torque filled, regenerative braking adventure that continues each day I drive electrically.

    Thanks for sharing and welcome to the forum!
  • Dec 15, 2015
    Ralph K
    Well after waiting over 2 years I decided to cancel my model X reservation yesterday. Called the main office and they did ask why I'm canceling? I told them its the lack of communication and the long delays helped make my decision. I was in the 6K for design and was told April till we see one for a test drive, making my delivery in the FALL? I was thinking January or maybe April at the latest...Not FALL!

    I'm also thinking it's too much money for me to spend on a car! Love the company and I will continue to be an advocate/stock holder for the company and look forward to watching Tesla grow!

    On Thursday I'm picking up my 2016 Volvo XC 90 (non-electric). Seems to be a very safe car (check out crash video it's amazing what it will do) with pilot assist and it's half the price loaded! It was named Motor Trend SUV of the year for 2016 (X was not in the running so who knows?) Extremely comfortable seats, second and third row seats fold down and with gas under $2 a gallon I pulled the trigger. I can now use the other half of the money I saved to help my son's family put down a payment on a town home.

    I'ts been a long ride with Tesla (still have my jacket:) and I will take another look in a few years and see if I can make it work! Really enjoyed reading the threads and I would like to thank you for you help answering question and speculating on what's to come! Like I told Tesla it was my only source for updated news regarding the Model X. Guess I now need to join the Volvo Club page!

    Signing out! Have a happy holidays...Go Elon!!!
  • Dec 15, 2015
    aija SigX 649
    Sorry to see you go ..but certainly understand your position. Sounds like you made the correct decision for your situation. Good luck to you and hope you'll come back around to EVs in the near future!
  • Dec 15, 2015
    JohnSnowNW
    I know not everyone is Eco conscious, but this sort of reasoning is kinda what's wrong with Am. consumers. Everything else you've listed as a reason for your cancellation totally makes sense, and seems to be the best decision for you.

    Just leave the bit out about cheap gas, is all I'm saying.
  • Dec 15, 2015
    MrBoylan
    I paid $1.81/gallon for gas this weekend - $20 to fill the tank - on the drive home from the Tesla store in NJ. Can't wait until my X arrives so I never have to sit in a stinky gas station again. Also can't wait to tell stories about them to my grand kids, since they won't have any idea what they are. :)

    I should probably take a few more pictures...

    181-gas.jpg
  • Dec 15, 2015
    Merrill
    If you think gas prices are going to stay this low you are not aware of what is going on to drive the low prices. But for me it is more about what you are spewing into the atmosphere.
  • Dec 15, 2015
    vjlvjl
    Eagerly waiting to configure (Res #15XXX).

    My needs are simple: 7-passenger electric SUV.
  • Dec 15, 2015
    Jeva
    I bet...after replacement, most people experience much less pain as you no longer have things like bone on bone contact because the cartilage is gone. We are both due for a knee replacement but are still "too young" yet.

    Avoidance of gas prices was never a driving factor for me to get a Tesla. There's still the cost of the electricity to charge (if don't at home...a fraction of gasoline, I know) and the cost of installing a charger which for some can be a good chunk of change depending on the home.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Especially if you drive a VW :biggrin: Too soon?

    I guess one could argue that many of the power plants used to produce the electricity to charge the car are coal based and aren't too eco friendly themselves.
  • Dec 15, 2015
    JohnSnowNW
    Then, of course, the argument would be that you aren't forced to use said coal produced energy. At least where the majority of BEVs are sold, in Europe and NA.
  • Dec 15, 2015
    Jeva
    I'm in the middle of coal heaven between KY & WV...lol
  • Dec 15, 2015
    Cyclone
    I just want to say that it also takes burning gasoline for the tankers to get it from the refinery to the gas station, from the tankers to the refinery, and from the oil rigs onto the tankers.

    Here's Why Electric Cars Are Always Greener Than Gas

    Here is a calculator from the US DoE that you punch in your car and zip code and it will give you what your local emmissions are:
    Beyond Tailpipe Emissions: Results

    Cincinnati's 45202 zip code for a 2015 Tesla S 85D total emissions (*Total emissions rate includes tailpipe emissions and the emissions associated with the production and distribution of fuel.) is 260 grams per mile vs. 480 grams per mile for the average new car.
  • Dec 15, 2015
    JohnSnowNW
    And you can still purchase RE energy!

    Green Power Network: Can I Buy Green Power in My State?

    - - - Updated - - -

    No doubt, I despise going to the gas station. Not only am I always forced to wait for a pump, it's seriously cold standing out there in the middle of winter.
  • Dec 15, 2015
    Jeva
    Yeah I get that...it's just not something on my agenda. Bless the rest of you for trying to do the right thing :)
  • Dec 15, 2015
    stealthology
    Not going to argue that a car is a depreciating asset, but have you seen how well the Model S' resale value holds up?
  • Dec 15, 2015
    ohmman
    ..about on par with other vehicles of the same price, as far as I've been able to tell. Did your data tell you otherwise?
  • Dec 15, 2015
    mnx
    Haven't canceled yet but I may after getting a chance to see one at a local store.

    I can't justify having an X and an S, and I don't think I want to give up my S (plus ~50 grand) to have an X. That and I think our minivan is likely a more practical vehicle at this point. Passenger and cargo room are pretty important to me these days as I will be using all 7 seats most of the time.

    I am looking forward to see the Chrysler PHEV minivan at the NAIAS, hopefully the EV part of it isn't wimpy.
  • Dec 15, 2015
    Tyl
    2�C It's kind of a 'Tomorrowland' thing. We all do what we can.. in anyway possible. It is very important. X marks the spot!
  • Dec 15, 2015
    flankspeed8

    Why should he leave that point out when Tesla themselves use "gas savings" as a marketing ploy. Gas is half the price it was a couple of years ago so this is very much a relevant point. Now is it going to stay low for long? I hope not. gas is too cheap right now.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Feel free to skip the thread "Gonna Bail - anyone else?" then...
  • Dec 15, 2015
    Kandiru
    As a lucky owner of a second hand Model S85D all I can say is be patient, this is the peak of automotive tech.

    We were thinking about hybrids also, but after my wife experienced the Model S she is sure a BEV SUV is our
    next family vacation hauler.

    About the only car that even comes close is the XC90, a ground up hybrid, but after Geely fired the Swedish suppliers
    quality went downhill, two stop sale orders already?
  • Dec 15, 2015
    JohnSnowNW
    It's a marketing ploy because the goal, as it should be for everyone, is to reduce carbon emissions.
  • Dec 16, 2015
    n88
    After reading thread, thinking of 50th Anniversary of Alice's Restaurant, Lyrics by Arlo Guthrie.
    (... and no PC police please, his original lyrics, my bold.)

    . . .

    "You know, if one person, just one person, does it, they may think he's
    Really sick and they won't take him.

    And if two people do it, in harmony, they may think they're both faggots and
    They won't take either of them.

    And if three people do it! Can you imagine three people walkin' in, singin'
    A bar of "Alice's Restaurant" and walkin' out? They may think it's an
    Organization!

    And can you imagine fifty people a day? I said FIFTY people a day . . .
    Walkin' in, singin' a bar of "Alice's Restaurant" and walkin' out? Friends,

    They may think it's a MOVEMENT, and that's what it is: THE ALICE'S
    RESTAURANT ANTI-MASSACREE MOVEMENT! . . . and all you gotta do to join is to
    Sing it the next time it comes around on the guitar.

    Just might be playing this on the std audio system of my MX, when pulling out of the parking lot in Fremont, hopefully sometime next year.
  • Dec 16, 2015
    Joetnr1
    I went from an Acura RDX to a Model S and I was honestly a little worried about it sitting much lower than the SUV. I've not scraped once. Although, I live in a warm weather climate so that is also a factor. (potholes, etc..) Grab a Model S instead!
  • Dec 17, 2015
    tliving
    OP, if I bailed it would only to be to get another S instead of the X. May be an expensive car but I can't imagine ever going back to something else. Worth all those pennies.
  • Dec 17, 2015
    Cyclone
    I look forward to blog posts about the X. Your blog was one of the key factors that led me to getting my S!
  • Dec 18, 2015
    Crusoe
    Waiting on a moving target was quite frustrating. If I was in your financial demographic I'd stick it out.
    I bailed on Model S 40 kWh as the date kept slipping and they kept doing press releases about how crippled it would be, battery not swappable, battery pack ballasted with dead weight, no twin/super charger and not sure when we'll deliver none of which turned out to be true. It burned a little when they just gave the 4% the software crippled 60 kWh but a few years later I bought a used S60 with low mileage and got more car for less money. I'm over all of the pain and suffering, the MS is soo choice.
  • Dec 19, 2015
    mx_enthusiast
    We were on the fence too. I thought about it longer than my husband did. All he heard was EV seats 7 0-60 in 3.2 and he was sold.

    We had an early model S reservation so they asked us to configure before we knew much about the car. I'm glad we didn't because we wouldn't have been able to get autopilot. My husband's coworker did and he tried to trade his S in for the X and complains that his has depreciated more than he expected. We transferred to the X reservation because we have 4 kids and tbh just wanted to kick the can down the road since we already had a Porsche 911 as a third car.

    We preferred the X over the S because at the time the S did not come with AWD (we live in snow) and the back facing seats would only work for my kids for a limited number of years. We sold the 911-- the battery died because we never drove it. We live in a blue collar city and we felt too flashy in it. That was a waste of money and def a mid life crisis decision which is why I was even more apprehensive about basically buying a $149k electric soccer mom car. However, I do like that the model X blends in with the other crossovers except when you open the doors. And this electric minivan-looking car would make all our friends' $150,000+ weekend ICE sports cars look like dinosaurs comparatively which I find kind of funny. We are on the market for luxury SUV's and they all either do not fit four kids and a hockey bag comfortably or they were gas-guzzling hard-to-drive land boats. The ones that met our needs weren't luxury vehicles. The X is the full package and is a compromise between all our needs. The X being electric is def just a perk for me. I'm not going to pretend that I cared much about the environment before this. I do not currently drive an electric vehicle but I am excited about being more green. Unfortunately we missed the government incentives for solar panels on the house. Then we would have REALLY gone green. We just had our wall charger installed last week. We thought about joining the public charging network and having two installed for free by Tesla but since our electrical set up allowed for easily installion, it only costed $1800 plus the cost of the charger so we decided against it, even though we would love to chat with fellow Tesla owners.

    I just joined this forum so I haven't read much and have no idea when we are getting the X. I believe our reservation was in the 2000's. We ordered the P90D and confirmed on 12/11. I went to a Tesla Model S event recently to test drive the auto pilot and it's pretty much what I expected. It does work but not fool proof so I can't exactly watch Netflix on my drive to the city but it's absolutely a step up from cruise control. When I get the car I plan to take the summer off and take a national tour along the super charging stations, heading west, then north, across some national parks, down the east coast, up through TX and back to the Midwest. I'm looking forward to the trip. We plan to lease the X only because we predict by the end of three years there will be more interesting competition that we might want to get. By then we'll have one kid out in college and another kid driving so we might buy an S and judging by our co-workers experience, I don't want to be stuck trying to sell this car. Hoping Tesla will make another roadster-esqe sports car after the Model 3.
  • Dec 19, 2015
    MrBoylan
    Welcome to the forum. Nice first post! If you confirmed a P90D on 12/11, you're pretty early among production P90D confirmations. I'd guess that you might get your car in March or April, assuming they blow through all the Signature orders December-February. Very excited for you and do post some of your thoughts about ownership up on the forum.
  • Dec 19, 2015
    alphabravo
    Thanks, Mark Z!

    Truth is, like many I think, I first started following the forum - religiously - about 18 months ago. Just never felt the need to throw my opinion into the hat until this thread caught my eye!
  • Dec 19, 2015
    purplewalt
    You have been listening to your wife for all these years, why are you not listening now?
    There are currently more Model X out in the U.S. (ready to be delivered) than those just sitting in the Fremont parking lot ready to be shipped.

    Maybe if you test sit in a Model X, that will seal the deal?

    Just sayin'
  • Dec 19, 2015
    goneskiian
    Welcome indeed mx_enthusiast! Great first post!

    I'm going to disagree with Mr. Boylan though as I think you'll get your X sooner than March or April. Especially if they ramp up to the predicted 800/week next month. ;-)

    At least, I hope so as I haven't configured yet and I'm still hoping to get one in February. Likely wishful thinking on my part!

    Cheers!
  • Dec 20, 2015
    bonaire
    mx_enthusiast: Unfortunately we missed the government incentives for solar panels on the house. Then we would have REALLY gone green.

    What did you miss, Missouri's incentive? The Federal Tax Credit is still in place @ 30% in 2016 and is being extended. That is a healthy incentive.
  • Dec 20, 2015
    ElectricTundra
    A Tesla is not for everyone.

    1 - Most people cannot afford one (including a few who've bought them). For some, such as my son, they could afford it when they made their res but not now. In his case because he left the investment bank he was with to start his own company and his wife won't even let him spend money on a morning cappuccino (though being a caring parent we gave them a Rancillio Silvia). A guy in our neighborhood just lost his job because the CEO of his company is an idiot and hasn't managed the company well.

    2 - They are still a bit bleeding edge for the vast majority of people. Many of us who've bought Tesla's are folks who thrive on change and risk. That's a pretty tiny group. Most people want a bit more certainty and the comfort that comes with it (and that's a very good thing for our communities). A friend of mine is like that. He says that he's a professional 2nd CEO. Four times now he's been brought in by VC's to replace founding CEO's who were the risk takers who built the business.

    3 - Finally is real range anxiety (vs perceived range anxiety). Some people's driving is not yet very practical with the current charging infrastructure. Fortunately this is getting better and better every week.

    Not all of us are a Bertha Benz. :)
  • Dec 21, 2015
    mx_enthusiast
    Thanks Mr. Boylan & GoneSkiian. We got the email 11/30 and ordered 12/5 and they confirmed 12/7. I got everything except sound system and towing package and still questioning my decision to forgo those for ludicrous mode, but for that much I was hoping to go 0-60 in less than 2.7 seconds :rolleyes: I feel like I haven't really made it until I can drive that fast LOL

    Wish we made the decision sooner if it's based on date and not sequence number. We were waiting for an electrician to come take a look because we wouldn't have gotten an electric car if it meant waiting at the grocery store every time we needed a charge. Elon needs to take the GaAs thin film solar panels from his space crafts and make them into trailers that can hook up to the X :biggrin:
  • Dec 26, 2015
    Zapped
    The Canadian customers are going to have a tough time with the poor exchange rate.

    In Oct 2013 when I reserved the MX at $130k USD it would have cost $136k CND.
    Now it's $171k CND

    If the trend continues it's getting harder if not impossible for many to eat that difference.
  • Dec 26, 2015
    SMSMD
    @ Zapped do you know if any Canadian Reservation holders invited to configure yet. With the falling loonies my upgrades list if falling down as well.:mad:
  • Dec 26, 2015
    Zapped
    Unfortunately No ...
  • Dec 27, 2015
    Hugh Mannity
    Definitely not going to bail. 100 grand is way too much to drop on a vehicle but this isn't any vehicle, it's the future; am willing to spend a premium for that. I would not pay 50 grand for an ICE vehicle.
  • Dec 29, 2015
    kushari
    Why don't people factor in the savings? Like the Rebates from the government, the fuel cost savings, insurance savings, maintenance etc. I really don't get it. Once you buy a car, those exist, but you save much of those buying a Tesla. I always explain it like this when someone tells me it's expensive. Total cost of ownership. What's the point of a "cheap car" if you're spending the same amount over time. It's the same thing. Especially that I'm financing mine, their next argument of I don't have 100K it shot down. I don't either.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I don't think many will have a problem with that. If you're buying a new model car, and you knew the price wasn't already disclosed, and you knew it was going to be expensive, not many people that couldn't afford to do so will do that.
  • Dec 29, 2015
    Mark Z
    I am attempting to bail out of one location for delivery.

    A post is showing that one Model X is sitting at a Service Center for two weeks, and not being delivered. if that is happening, I want a local SC that are handling the X's in quantity.


    UPDATE: DS will call with status on 12/30. Says, "in great hands" at newer SC. My reply, switch it if car not there or if no EOY delivery.
  • Dec 29, 2015
    Zybane
    Insurance savings? From what I've seen, Tesla's are actually quite expensive to insure.
  • Dec 29, 2015
    ohmman
    Well, if you're trading in your Ferrari Enzo.. think of the savings!
  • Dec 29, 2015
    AlMc
    I bailed on the SigX because of the lack of non folding seats. I would have delayed/deferred but you can not do that with a Sig reservation.
    I have had, and will keep, my PX reservation. I have delayed configuring with the hope that the seat option becomes available. In no hurry. The longer it is delayed the better chance I have of seeing any improvements or upgrades...my potential consolation prize.
  • Dec 29, 2015
    Mark Z
    I still think a 5 seat version with bench seat would be perfect. It would be static like Model S. The Model S seats for 3 fold down beautifully. The leg and head room would be luxurious. The answer for so many who want the best in exterior SUV style and interior convenience.
  • Dec 29, 2015
    Uncle Paul
    Was at the San Diego service center today. They have 10 Signature Model X's in their parking lot. Looks like they are getting prepped for delivery : >)
  • Dec 29, 2015
    roblab
    If your present insurer wants to gouge you, and you let them, it's your fault. Every insurance company tries to jack up rates if they think they can get away with it.

    SHOP AROUND. There is nothing magical in a name. My insurer is one I never heard of, yet they pay of better than others I have had, and charge less. Often, even hinting you will go looking, your insurer will drop prices.

    The biggest insurance cost is insuring lives. Tesla is the safest car in the world. My rates are just a little bit more than what they were when I drove a 2009 Prius.
  • Dec 29, 2015
    Ulabrand
    I wholeheartedly agree!
  • Dec 29, 2015
    ohmman
    I've spent a lot of time thinking about our usage and needs for the MX, especially lately as deliveries begin. After the September "delivery" event, I was pretty strongly leaning towards the "bail" side of this argument. Time has allowed me to think it through more thoroughly and come to terms with a few things.

    I think I can get over the lack of folding seats. We'd be replacing a rarely-used van, and I don't remove that second row very often. The main use for the van is when our in-laws are in town and we need to seat 6, or more rarely, 7. We also use it when we want to take the kids' bikes to the park (as well as the kids). To be clear, I'd prefer folding or removable seats, but given that they don't currently exist, I'm open to compromising.

    I also think I can get past the doors. Enough has been said, and everyone's got their own opinion. They're not my favorite part of the vehicle, I believe they'll be more of a drawback than an asset for me personally, but I think I can tolerate them.

    The reason I'm now more willing to compromise? The truth is, I can't drive an ICE anymore, even for rare events like those I listed. So while I'm disappointed with certain aspects of the MX, the drivetrain and driving experience are able to compensate more than enough.

    I haven't made my mind up completely. I'm still waiting on some measurements in the wiki, as well as a good conversation with my wife about it. But yeah.. the van sucks.
  • Dec 30, 2015
    jeff_adams
    Before you bail, I suggest you at least test drive one. The first owners receiving MXs are reporting that the vehicle EXCEEDS thier expectations. You may be very surprised by how nice the Model X is.
  • Dec 30, 2015
    ohmman
    I think I must have been unclear in my post. I'm now leaning towards ordering despite those things.
  • Dec 30, 2015
    aesculus
    I did my bake off yesterday between the S and X. Even with the X's many shortcomings, its a better car for me than the S in terms of visibility (6 seats to increase vision out the back), ingress/egress and seating comfort. It will probably have to do until Gen 2.0 comes out in three years.

    Oh and the windshield seals it.:smile:
  • Dec 30, 2015
    bonnie
    And I thought it was the ability to close doors from inside :). (Thanks for the goody bag!)
  • Dec 30, 2015
    Blastphemy
    We have our answer (and it's no surprise to me):

    2017 Mitsubishi Outlander Plug-In Hybrid: On Sale Late Summer, Now

    Of course, the Outlander PHEV will probably be delayed again and not arrive in showrooms until early 2017, so take this article with yet another grain of salt! lol...
  • Dec 30, 2015
    aesculus
    Thanks for the opportunity.

    It's a great car and you will really like your Founders when you get it. Now it will be like Christmas all over again as you wait for the new one.
  • Dec 30, 2015
    Mark Z
    I agree, it would be nice to test drive the "Car 15, Where Are You?" MX Sig when it arrives. But I have a question for Bonnie over a concern on another thread.

    Bonnie: Does your Model X have the AM radio band? Is there an AM band mentioned in the Owner's Manual?

    Since the MaxK video does not show the AM band on the screen and his Tesla training session ignores any mention of it, we need to make sure: Tesla Model X settings demo part 3 - YouTube

    The problem is that iHeartRadio has some AM stations that do not exist in TuneinRadio. The only solution for "Live" "clear channel" KFI would be to use the iPhone or have a portable AM radio in the car.
  • Dec 30, 2015
    rdalcanto
    What? That is not possible! I thought Tesla was the only automaker in the world that missed delivery deadlines.... (sarcasm).
  • Dec 30, 2015
    bonnie
    I don't see any AM radio options.
  • Dec 30, 2015
    Mark Z
    Is the AM band or the lack of one mentioned in the Owner's Manual?

    (Just hoping that maybe Tesla Motors could be working on the software that didn't make it in time for improved AM hardware.)
  • Dec 30, 2015
    bonnie
    I'll look next time I'm in the X.
  • Dec 30, 2015
    jeff_adams
    No, you were clear. I was mostly posting to the bigger audience. The thing is, even though the Founders are going to be big fans of Tesla, it is interesting to hear people comment about how surprised they are that things work better (like Auto Pilot). These are people that probably already own Model S or are at least very familiar with them and for them to be even more impressed than they expected to be with the Model X tells me something about how good it turned out.
  • Dec 30, 2015
    kushari
    They are pretty cheap up here in Canada. Cheaper than what a Civic or Corolla would be in most cases.
  • Dec 31, 2015
    Mark Z
    When I was on the phone with the DS last night, he looked at the physical Owner's Manual.

    No mention of the AM band.

    I won't bail because of that, but I will miss the ease of listening to KFI "clear channel" 640 without using an iPhone and iHeartRadio to play through Bluetooth.

    Too bad HD Radio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia couldn't make distant AM stations clear enough. If Tesla Motors adds an iHeartRadio app on the dash, the Model X entertainment will be restored to the fullness of variety that Model S drivers have enjoyed for years.
  • Jan 2, 2016
    AMPd
    yDyJiC9.jpg
  • Jan 3, 2016
    Cancun2ndhome
    I am new here and think these cars are cool as hell. However, I can't really put my mind around spending so much money, so I was drawn to this post. I don't mean to get too personal, but is everyone buying these wealthy or is it the same old deal of being able to "afford the payment" even though their retirement is in question? I think the amount of families living paycheck to paycheck is around 75%. And I swear I am not trying to be holier than thou, I just am boggled by the purchase of something $100k that will be worth half that in 3 years? How is this a benefit to anyone's family?

    And I saw some in here spoke of how they will tell their kids about how they helped save the planet. Really? They do realize that it produces tons more emissions to produce a new car than drive an older one??? If you really want to make a difference then get or keep a car that has already been produced. Funny how we rationalize our wants. I want one, and believe I can really afford it, but financially it is such a leap!
  • Jan 3, 2016
    bonnie
    I totally get what you're saying. When I purchased my Roadster, it was for performance. I didn't buy into the environmental argument. Because there were a lot better ways I thought I could spend that money to help the environment than buy a performance car. Right?

    Someone on the forum pointed out to me the influence I'd had at the large number of events I'd attended, showing that performance electric sports car. Thousands of people had seen it. I know there have been a LOT of sales of electric cars because of it. (Even some people here on the forum.) I've certainly held countless conversations about what we each, individually, can do to help reduce our carbon footprint because I own that fun car.

    So yes, it is a ridiculous amount of money. Each one of us has our own reasons for buying what we buy. I tell my children that I'm spending their inheritance and, they'e told me 'well, you've earned it'. (Love them!) But don't ever think that your purchase of one of these cars or a more inexpensive version doesn't have a wider impact than just driving it, because it does. People see it on the road. They ask you questions at the supermarket. It becomes 'normal'. And they think about how it would fit into their life.

    Individual decision. But a global impact.
  • Jan 3, 2016
    GSP
    "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to bonnie again."

    Great point Bonnie.

    GSP
  • Jan 3, 2016
    ohmman
    To add to Bonnie's excellent response, I'll say that if you envision a future where all (or most) transportation is sustainable, you have to support that transition in some way. If we all just drive old cars and transform our streets in a Havana-esque landscape 30 years from now, we're not getting anywhere.

    I'm a firm believer in voting with my wallet. Tesla's mission is meaningless unless people buy the cars. They've made an enormous impact on the public's perception of EVs, and the only way they've been able to do it is because people buy their cars.

    So yes, if you look only at the single transaction, it would have been better for me to keep my '99 Acura. But that's not how we drive progress. My small contribution is by purchasing and driving an EV, and evangelizing about it when asked. Besides, it's 2016. We all thought we'd be in flying cars by now. At least I'm driving electric.
  • Jan 3, 2016
    Cancun2ndhome

    That makes sense, "you have to break a few eggs to make an omelet". I don't own any Birkenstocks, but I do see that electric is the future and and for good reason. It is not perfect yet (ie coal), however I do feel technology will figure out our energy needs for the future. Mr. Optimist? lol Ironically we had electric cars way back in the day and for me it is the performance, tech, safety, and like I said, "coolness" of the car that I love more than any dreams of saving the world. I do understand someone has to be early adopters, i'm just thinking they must be robbing some bank to make it happen.

    I am looking into the business lease, but also considering a Yukon Denali as it has more room. Before you guys flame me, realize how nice it is that regular car shoppers are considering Telsa products as real alternatives, and not just a "green statement" to the world!! :) I am really leaning on keeping our old SUV, its just those gull wing doors are sweet! Cheers, guys.....
  • Jan 3, 2016
    JohnSnowNW
  • Jan 3, 2016
    EboMike
    Regarding money - it's just a decision everybody has to make individually. You have a certain income, you have a certain budget. Some people like to spend the majority of their paycheck on a fancy car because they enjoy driving. Some people have a lot of money to spend. There is a wide variety of reasons why people are getting one, just loving nice cars could be one.

    As for the environmental benefit - well yes, there is a huge benefit. We had a Highlander for the past 10 years, and in that time, we've pumped 3963 gallons of gasoline into it (slightly more, there were 7 instances when we forgot to log pumping gas). The Model X will be powered almost entirely by our solar panels. We'll easily offset the cost of producing the car. Not to mention that there will be no emissions as we drive, so we do our part to keep the air in our residential area cleaner and keep the noise level down.
  • Jan 3, 2016
    Drucifer
    There is definitely a range of people buying these.

    1. People adding Model S as a daily driver to their household fleet. The cost of the car is a rounding error in their net worth.
    2. People who would be otherwise buying a 7 Series or S Class, and are looking around and decide Model S is more interesting or forward thinking.
    3. People who would be otherwise buying a car in the $40s or $50s and stretch to buy Model S because it is compelling.
    4. People who would otherwise buy a Prius or Leaf, and stretch for Model S to go "all in" on the vision.

    I would put myself in the 3rd category. My rules of thumb include never buy a car that is over half your annual income or have a mortgage over 3x your annual gross income. This forced me to decide between a fully loaded CPO, or a new 70D with only a few options. I did the CPO. No regrets as I am probably getting a Model X for my wife in 2 years that will get me the Autopilot, parking sensors etc., that my Model S doesn't have.

    Best of luck in your process of pondering the Model S/X.
  • Jan 3, 2016
    Chickenlittle
    Sorry to hear about your circumstances. Hope things get better for you. Perhaps you should consider the base model? It is less expensive
  • Jan 3, 2016
    AlMc
    I call it 'Paying it Forward'
  • Jan 3, 2016
    pdq
    Jeva:

    if the Model S is a little too low for you, do what I do. First, I ordered the car with the Smart Air Suspension. Then, as I drove to all my usual places, I'd go into Suspension Controls and raise the car to its highest setting which raises the car a couple of inches.
  • Jan 3, 2016
    Cancun2ndhome

    Cute.
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