Feb 22, 2016
desant89 Pretty excited about Tesla bringing me a vehicle to test drive this coming Thursday. I have had over 50+ vehicles at age 42 and cannot wait to compare. I know even if I like it, I will have a huge decision as I would need to get rid of my 13 Alpina B7 to get the Tesla. I am actually thinking I would get a pre-owned P85D. Had S550, regular 750Li etc. Currently own an M6 also. Usually end up getting them at a good price on Ebay so I do not get beat up too bad when the time comes to sell.
I have been reading and reading. Finally time to drive one. I would love to hear from someone who had a 7 series to compare though. Not a lot of good comparisons when searching other than the looks of the vehicle which helps in no way.....Just had to get it out there. Thanks in advance!�
Feb 22, 2016
Nototrader Completely different from a 7. They are both large cars and both drive like large cars. However, you just can't compare an ICE to electric. Not better or worse, just different IMO. Instant acceleration all the time. Never in the wrong gear. Never need to wait for a rpm drop to get instant acceleration. Lower center of gravity. So will feel tighter for a large car...but definitely not in Porsche territory of handling either. Hope that helps.�
Feb 22, 2016
desant89 The thing I am not hearing when reading everywhere I can is about the ride itself with Air Suspension. I really like a floaty ride. I love my Alpina, but I preferred the S550 soft ride more. Of course the Alpina outperforms and out-handles the S class, but the ride was definitely less sport oriented in the S class (I know I am not breaking any new ground with that statement). Does the Tesla ride smooth like a luxury car? I know it is subjective, but if someone has driven The 7 and the S class, you can kind of say where you think the Tesla falls in there. I am going crazy waiting for this to get here.�
Feb 22, 2016
Nototrader The MS is not a floating boat on the street. However, after my recent two day test drive, I was very impressed how soft it was over bumps. I guess you will find out soon. And I am comparing it to a Porsche 911 and a Ford Explorer, my two daily drivers.�
Feb 22, 2016
Mr X
Air Suspension on Normal feels sturdy and very smooth, even more so because of the drivetrain. There's a slight difference in Low, which I prefer.
With 19's the car feels like its on rails (depending on the roads)
I don't think you'll look back once you drive it. Can't think of any car that exists that I would get over a Model S. There's really no comparison. One helluva car�
Feb 22, 2016
desant89 I like the sounds of that. Gonna be a long few days.....Then it will be decision time. I like that here in the Northeast, the Tesla is still pretty exclusive. Kind of got used to that with the Alpina as I have not seen another one in over a year.�
Feb 22, 2016
boonedocks
@desant89 different is the key word. We have a 2011 BMW AH7 which is the big V8 L version with a hybrid system. It has the self leveling adjustable suspension and ride system as well. There is nothing short of perfection in comfort and ride and drive and fit and finish and materials in that car. Our 85D doesn't come close. With that said, the MS is the most fun driving car I have ever had and would 100% buy another one No regrets.�
Feb 23, 2016
desant89 The big question is, would you trade in your BMW for a Tesla? Mine is a 2013 Alpina long body X-Drive. I am not sure you can go any higher than that. So once I drive the Tesla, it will need to really wow me for me to make that decision. I will not be upset if I do not like the Tesla, but if I love it, I would think it is still going to be a tough decision. However, I love Tech stuff.....So that will be a major plus.�
Feb 23, 2016
jaguar36 I think the Tesla really only beats the current gen 7-series in two ways, acceleration and auto-pilot (and of course not using gasoline). In pretty much everything else I think the 7-series is going to win. Handling, build quality, materials, interior design, comfort, features, and stability. Coming from a last-gen 7-series its probably a closer battle, but still the BMW will win in most regards.�
Feb 23, 2016
Nototrader i respectfully disagree. I've had like 8 bmws. At some point, it all just gets boring. As long as the tesla doesn't look like crap inside (and it's nothing special but it certainly doesn't feel like a Toyota Camry), then the tech and the acceleration and the AP and the awesome waze like nav and the lower center of gravity will make you like the tesla way more. I don't think it will even be close. The rest of the fancy nonsense gets old after about a week. The stuff that you use and utilize on a daily basis is what you learn to keep appreciating.
Side note. I have 4 cars. All have gps. I haven't used one of the gps units once in the last two years. Yet I use waze every day. Tesla is the first car that I have seen that makes me want to use its gps. Not sure why all car companies can't do the same.�
Feb 23, 2016
desant89 I am hearing that a lot about the quality of material, and layout. I know the stereo in my BMW (B&O) is also going to be far superior. As for exclusiveness, the B7 probably wins that battle also. However, one big gripe I have with the current 7 series line is that some designers must have been 5 foot tall. I am 6'3", and to get in is a task. With the seat back, the opening of the doorway is way forward. I have to kind of put myself in, then fall back on the seat. Not a huge gripe, but my only one really. Having said that, I have not gotten into a Model S yet to know how that is for a taller person. Nice to see opinions on here that are not totally Biased. I would not even attempt this post in the BMW forums. Thanks!�
Feb 23, 2016
Zextraterrestrial buttons..BMW's have waaay too many buttons. Unless the 7 series are different�
Feb 23, 2016
Roamer I was driving a BMW 760i V12 when I ordered our first Model S (2012). I special ordered the BMW to get the shorter Model after finding the 750Li to be like driving a Limo. The V12 on the short wheelbase was like driving a sports car with lazy boy chairs. I put 120,000 miles on the car and considered it the best road trip car I had ever owned.
Our first Tesla delivered (May 2013) and ruined it for me. I started with a red S85. My wife, who did not think we needed a Tesla, took it over within the first month. I thought OK I will go back to the BMW. Within a few months I couldn't take it any longer and ordered a Grey P85+ on staggered 21's. The P85+ is still the best sports car Model S ever made. But then last year Tesla came out with the insane D and insanity forced me to upgrade to a P85D. My daughter, who was driving a BMW 550i, scored big and got the hand me down P85+ years earlier than planned. I was not willing to take the loss selling a low milage two year old Tesla. She loves driving her P85+. She has never once mentioned missing the BMW 550i.
Ironically the BMW 760i has been sitting on a battery tender since 2013. I kept it around for those trips a Tesla could not make. I have not needed it since early 2014. The Super Charger system has managed to grow in all the right places and rather than be forced to take the BMW I have been able to find ways to make my trips with the Tesla.
To answer your question. For three years I have had a BMW760i available to drive and never drive it. Once you get used to all the things a Tesla can do it's hard to give it up to drive something else. The BMW is a wonderful road machine but just can't deliver the overall experience of driving a Tesla. Once you have experienced the smooth clean instant power of a Tesla nothing else measures up. With the new seats and auto steer it's not even close.�
Feb 23, 2016
jaguar36 The Tesla GPS may disappoint you. I still use waze all the time with it.
The front seats in the Model S are pretty good, but they aren't ventilated, nor do they have anything like massage. The rear seats are pretty bad though. They're fine for kids or occasional use. But they aren't even in the same league as the best rear seats in a 7-series. It'd be like comparing a folding chair to a laz-y-boy.�
Feb 23, 2016
desant89
Great info. Especially since a P85D is what I would be getting. You having the v12 made the comparison a little closer. Although you had the previous generation, I am not sure that much has changed. Going to be interesting. Right now I have a RAM Limited, an M6 vert, and the Alpina (JCW mini that is used for towing behind RV also), M6 makes sense to keep as it is a vert, and totally different. So for me to get the Tesla, the Alpina is the only one that would make sense to get rid of. Nice to hear that you obviously enjoyed your BMW putting those kind of miles on it, and still prefer the Tesla. Thanks!
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And I have a 10, and a 7yr old. My car also has the rear seat exec. package so they will notice a huge difference. However, that will not influence my decision. I think they will be so amused by the big screen (they love Ipads like every other kid) and no noise that they will not complain.�
Feb 23, 2016
SMSMD �
Feb 23, 2016
kwhftw I went from your same car to a p85+. i'd keep the alpina for sure.�
Feb 23, 2016
Roamer Some early P85Ds shipped with second row next gen seats. The early model P85D second row next gen seats had side bolsters and prevented the seats from folding completly flat. I think Tesla went back to a flatter second row because of the fold flat complaints. My 69xxx VIN shipped with second row seats with the side bolsters and I find them more comfortable. They fold flat enough for me. The back seat in a model S is not as roomy as a seven series BMW but would be fine for kids. You can add a removable center console and that gives them an arm rest, cup holders and a little storage space.�
Feb 23, 2016
jaguar36 Keep in mind the rear facing seats are only good for up to 77lbs. A 10 year old could already be above that.�
Feb 23, 2016
R3D-83 I like Tesla for what it represents but I have to respectfully disagree with you too :smile: and defend jaguar36's opinion who said:
The fact is the current (2016) 7-series is really huge step forward compared to even the previous generation. BMW has put the state of the art technologies into this car. Here's some of it's features:
The all-new BMW 7 Series. All you need to know. - YouTube
There are numbers of features that you can't find even in the Model X. And speaking of autopilot, it's unarguable that Tesla has better AP than any BMW in production. But here's a more than 2 years old video about BMW's AP capability:
BMW M235i drifts itself during CES demo - YouTube
But IMO, no need to compare these car, it's just simply pointless. They're made to serve completely different needs and both target different audiences.�
Feb 23, 2016
boonedocks My daily commute is just over 100 miles. After putting 120k miles on our 7 I got a Ford C/Max so that I wouldn't totally kill our BMW driving it. When the D was announced and A/P was announced I started seriously considering the Model S. Traded the C/Max in for it and have loved it ever since. Because it is so inexpensive to run our Model S we usually take it on family errand runs as well. Would I have traded in the BMW for it, no, and I am so glad I didn't have to. If BMW HAD had a 7 series that was totally electric and came close to the performance and fun factor of the Model S but had the creature comforts and drive of the BMW 7 series would I have bought it over the S, then yes I would have. IMHO a fully loaded pimped out 7 long wheel base BMW can not be touched in it's price range for an ICE. (which is the price range I paid for my Model S as well)
I�
Feb 23, 2016
cbin97 If you do decide to trade it in it won't be because of apples to apples it will be the oranges that blew you away in the Tesla that will compensate. I went from an M5 and an S4 to the Model S and I loved both those cars, but not even close to the S. It's so new and different it just blew me away.�
Feb 23, 2016
desant89
Those are two great cars also. Although I think totally different than what I would be giving up. I do see a lot of people giving up really nice cars for their Tesla though. But seeing that boonedocks would not trade his 7 for a Tesla also has me thinking. I think I know hands down what the better car is. There likely is no comparison. However just something about driving an electric car, and getting updated frequently is luring me in. When I drive it, I am either going to love it and not care what I have to get rid of, or say to myself "there is no way I can get rid of this for a Tesla" Financially, it will cost me likely almost 20k to make this an even swap which I will also factor in. Again, that will not matter if I love the Tesla. Two more days and I should have all the answers. I do like reading everyone's opinion also. Especially if I end up loving the Tesla. All of you will help me fee less guilty about my trade...�
Feb 23, 2016
InsaneDriver It's funny, you can find similar threads on the BMW and Mercedes forums as well. I am in the camp that the cars are not comparable. We have a 2015 S550 and a 2015 P85D. The S class is much bigger, feels even bigger than it actually is compared to the Model S. I drive the Model S 99% of the time, I love it, it is a blast. It doesn't feel like a large car to me. But, it isn't anywhere near as comfortable as the S550, in fact feels very basic from an interior design and comfort standpoint. For long road trips, we take the S550; just more comfortable on long hauls, all the creature comforts and ride quality. If you made me choose between them, I'd take the Model S, my wife would choose the S550.
I think I like to sum it up this way, if I want to 'drive' I choose the Tesla; if I want to 'ride' I choose the S550.
�
Feb 23, 2016
brianman IYO, what makes the P85+ a better sports car than the P85D?�
Feb 23, 2016
boonedocks
Our 7 also has the rear executive seats option. Our 8 & 9 year old children have become completely spoiled by them. That's why we ordered the rear executive seat package for our 85D as well. BTW they do miss the heated / cooled / massaging seats when we don't take the 7 out. Ahhhhhh spoiled babies Lol Lol Lol�
Feb 23, 2016
desant89
I think he thought the p85+ was the best ever, and then the p85D came out, and then he had to get that as it was even better.�
Feb 24, 2016
Niclas IMO, because of big motor and RWD and plus-suspension.�
Feb 25, 2016
desant89 ok, I just got back. Very tough decision. Right now leaning towards keeping the Alpina. Not driving a ton, the gas savings will not be a huge deal for me. If it were an even up trade, I may consider it just to have one, but considering that this would cost me about 20k on top of my Alpina, I am just not sure it is worth it. I liked the car, but as you all said, it is very plain inside. No storage ( I would get a console for sure), seats were ok as far as comfort. Then another thought is that even though I know a car is HORRIBLE investment, I have to wonder as of today, which will depreciate faster. Just throwing things around. Once you get going about 50, the car being electric becomes significantly less noticeable. Obviously it does have me thinking a lot though.......Overall I understand why people buy them, I think they are definitely overpriced, but I get it. And I still may own one soon!�
Feb 25, 2016
jaguar36 Keep in mind that the price drops considerably when you consider the $7500 tax rebate and the lack of sales tax in NJ.
A new Tesla will depreciate significantly faster than a 3 year old BMW though.�
Feb 25, 2016
kwhftw 
Like i said i had both at the same time and it's not even close. the only thing i like better about the tesla is carpool lane access. now im an s-class and tesla guy like dude above.�
Feb 25, 2016
jerry33 If you drive the Tesla for a month and then go back, whatever you were driving before will seem broken. This is not so apparent when going to the Tesla but it's very apparent going the other way.�
Feb 25, 2016
jaguar36 I disagree. I went back to my BMW and remember just how much I like the noise it makes, the seats, the handling and general driving position.�
Feb 25, 2016
FloridaGary I agree. Good description and comparison.�
Feb 25, 2016
kwhftw
lol maybe if you were driving a bucket before.�
Feb 25, 2016
Nototrader I must say. After all the hype of this thread, I'm a little let down. It started out very strong!
�
Feb 25, 2016
Jaff This ^^^.�
Feb 25, 2016
desant89 I am let down the most for real. I think reading and reading had my expectations too high. The not having interior storage, and simpleness of the interior was tough for me. I know its a different car, but if you are going to get the same type of money, I expect the same level of quality. I know the tech is there, and understand that, but the motors and batteries put together likely cost half of what a BMW or Mercedes engine cost. Given that, I feel as though there were too many other corners cut inside. If it was extreme luxury inside, I would not be having this conversation, and would be driving my Tesla right now. I had so many people here telling me I was crazy for even thinking about trading an Alpina B7 in on a Tesla. But I just thought they had no idea due to not experiencing a Tesla so I gave it a shot. I am not knocking the car, just saying as for creature comforts, it has a long way to go compared to it's similarly priced competitors. Something in me still wants one, just can't give up what I have for it. If I had a step or two down of a car now, I would do it in a second.�
Feb 25, 2016
ecarfan I think you have that backwards. The Tesla drivetrain -- battery/inverter/motors -- cost far more to manufacture than a BMW or MB engine, primarily because at this point the battery pack is an expensive item. Over time the cost of the pack will decrease and it will really drop in a few years when the Gigafactory is in high gear by around 2018 - 2020.
Yes, Teslas are expensive and they lack some of the luxury frills that other high end cars offer. If that is a big issue for someone then it's not the car for them.�
Feb 26, 2016
desant89
As consumers, we can buy a motor and batteries for a Tesla for under 20k. I'd bet its double to get A BMW 7 series engine with twin turbos, and whatever else is a must have to run a gas engine. I am just talking drive train. Has to be more than double.�
Feb 26, 2016
ecarfan I was talking about the production cost of a Tesla drivetrain (motors/inverter/battery) compared to a typical BMW/MB ICE (not a twin turbo 7 series engine, not sure why you picked an extreme cost example). The Tesla drivetrain costs a lot more to manufacture.
I am skeptical that a Tesla owner can buy a replacement drivetrain for under $20K.�
Feb 26, 2016
3s-a-charm Sorry to hear about your disappointment. I can understand because as some pointed out the two cars are barely comparable. Alpine B7 is smooth, powerful, luxurious and exclusive. Tesla although also smooth, powerful and somewhat luxurious the interior does look like it belongs in a $60k car - not a $130k car. That can be difficult to give up for some.
The decision for me was about weighting - I put more weight into the technology, smooth (insane) power, low maintenance, no gas station pumps, and an overall feeling of "understated luxury" that says "look at this great car" without having to hold my nose in the air at the same time. It's a more approachable car and (from my experience) is more broadly respected than an expensive BMW.
In the end just do what's right for you. After one year with my P85D, the only ICE I would consider is a convertible (but only because Tesla doesn't make one), or a light-weight sports car as I miss tossing a light car around corners sometimes. Other than that there is no fathomable reason for me to want any more than what I have now. It has been a very enjoyable experience.
Let us know which way you end up going.�
Feb 26, 2016
S'toon Fair enough. If it's not for you, it's not for you. Different people have different metrics of what they want in a car.
Some people have predicting a revamp, given the improvements in things like storage space in the Model X. Tesla seems to spring these things out with little advance warning.�
Feb 26, 2016
desant89 I chose that car because that is the same price range as the Model S. A 3 series would not be apples to apples since my main gripe is the class of vehicle according to price. I am sure Tesla has heard this a ton, and will make the cabins a bit more luxurious soon. As I said before, If i had a lower level car right now, I would easily see myself buying the Model S. However, getting rid of what I have now to get into the Tesla seems like a downgrade at this point. I was taken by the technology, but I am sure once that wears off, I am left with what I feel should be a 60k vehicle.�
Feb 26, 2016
ecarfan I would not be so sure of that.
What many many Tesla owners, and EV owners in general, find after owning their car for awhile is that every other car they drive (non-EV) feels archaic and antiquated: last century technology.
The instantaneous torque, astonishing acceleration, and silky smooth performance DOES NOT GET OLD.
ICE cars are what seem old.�
Feb 26, 2016
Max* While I agree with you, I think he was referring to the non-plush interior of the Tesla compared to some of the other higher end ICE's�
Feb 26, 2016
SDRick We were in a very similar situation with our 2012 7 series as the lease was ending last October. I fell in love with Tesla's electric drivetrain and torque. The instant torque was not a big deal for my wife so there was little upside for her. For even money, I may have persuaded her toward the Tesla even though it would've been a step down in her eyes. Unfortunately, it was not close to even money. We leased a 2015 7 series (about $98,000 sticker) for $910\month plus tax with no money down.
A similarly equipped and sticker priced Tesla was 4 or $500 more a month (no money down) and as many stated before, the luxury, creature comforts, particularly the seats, are not in the same class.
That said, I still want a Tesla. The two cars at the top of my list are the Tesla and a Corvette ZO6 to replace my 2009 Z 51 Corvette, which by the way feels like a slow noisy dog compared to the Tesla. If I was going to add a six-figure vehicle to my stable it would be the Tesla first and then perhaps the ZO6 Corvette.�
Feb 26, 2016
boonedocks 2ecarfan. I love my S85D and wouldn't give it up at for any car made today. With that said I understand @desant89's point of view completely. His and my BMW HAVE A 0-60 of 4.1 or better and absolutely insane performance even after that. Even tho my Tesla is insane off the line, after that it's not a fair game anymore with the BMW tromping. Add that to the fact that at 75mph my BMW is 10dB quieter than my Model S and has an interior that can not be touched. My BMW has more than 120k miles and has never nor now had a squeak or rattle or vibration. If you haven't owned one it is tough to be a critic.
With all of that said I would never give up my MS. It is different and unique in its own way and I have grown to love those things�
Feb 26, 2016
jeffro01
^^This...
I'm sure that Tesla has lost some sales over the less than equal interior quality versus the cars Tesla compares the Model S to. I just simply don't care. I will never by another car with an ICE. Ever again. End. Of. Story... Combine that with the shenanigans that GM is trying to pull in Indiana, and other places, it's my desire to never buy another car from a third party dealer again either. So... It's Tesla for me or walking, and I ain't walking...
Jeff�
Feb 28, 2016
AustinP This thread was quite compelling, like a good story, where one (me anyway), was expecting a happy end. Of course, happy end to me, hoping for a new Tesla owner. It may be this is OP's happy end to not go for the Tesla.
Still... Maybe you need to also factor in what was key to me, and probably to others. Buying the Model S is investing in the only company with a strong commitment in changing our civilized countries' impact on every creature's comfort. Not only when sitting in a luxury car. :biggrin:
I bought the car, stepping up from an Audi A4, so as OP said, a no brainier in terms of comfort probably. :tongue: Except even a modest Audi A4 has storage and console. I also fell puzzled that buying this car, It would mean stuff and kid's stuff laying around. It's not, and the kids love the car. In the end, and it's often hard to explain to my friend still driving A6 or Bmw 5 or Maserati how different an electric car is. There is really no going back.
And back to my main reason, I have this personal satisfaction that I take, very modestly, part in something important. Important to me anyway�
Feb 28, 2016
mobe I am in the minority, but I think the interior in The model S is fantastic. It is so clean and harmonious. As the old commercial used to say, " It's got everything you need and nothing you don't".
For me the attraction is that they made it so clean and uncluttered.
When it is powered off there are no gauges and no controls visible.
Like the spaceship on "Independence Day", until it powers up it is an mystery as to how it could function.
To me the interiors in most of the so called higher end luxury cars resemble a bordello. " hey let's see if we can work in carbon fiber, and leather and titanium trim and alcantara. Ooooo, oooo, throw some wood in there too, and neon lights"! " oh yeah, it must have at least 987 individually lit buttons for that 1980,s commercial aircraft cockpit look"! YUCK!
Simplicity and clean design are the ultimate luxury.�
Feb 28, 2016
heems I for one don't get OP's line of reasoning. He's basically saying all cars of the same price point should have comparable interior. Seems reasonable no? Let me stretch that logic and see if it still holds in a little thought experiment. A go cart with anti-gravity (i.e. No wheels) that costs the same as the precious Alpina. Now s/he would complain and whine how the go cart is missing all the bells and whistles. Yet the dang cart flies on air (and folks would be buying them like nuts)! See my point? What's under the hood matters. It's all one package. You can't pick and choose parts of a car to compare. Otherwise the logic seems flawed to me. Model S is a computer on wheels. Alpina is a dinasour with a diamond studded saddle. But hey it's the diamonds that count no?�
Feb 28, 2016
skilly Kind of reminds me of the Ferrari 360 Challenge cars....no carpet, door cards, and if you want a radio thats extra, but its the most expensive and most sought version of the 360.
With that said, the MS could step it up a little in its offerings for its finishes. The premium leather option still leaves a LOT to be desired; some of the creature comforts considered standard in that luxury class are missing (LED headlights; cooling seats; a CENTER CONSOLE. massage options etc etc). I agree that this is cutting a new category in the car market, but its also wanting to play in that field of 7series and S class buyers. In some comparisons it kicks butt and others it looks like it showed up at a black tie affair with a nice suit adorned with Converse Allstars to finish the look.
How about basic storage in the cabin?? Its great to have two trunks but when I want to store more than a wallet and sunglasses I have to think it through...WHY didn't they consider storage in the door cards - thats hardly luxury and without a center console, seems like a no brainer...these are the things that make me wonder if the original designer had spent any time in a car at all, let alone a luxury spec car....but I digress....�
Feb 28, 2016
lolachampcar mobe
Actually, you are not.
I come from a long line of BMWs (Seven and, mostly, M5s). That ended in 2013 with my first MS. When I first got the car, I was put off by all the "air around me" and lack of the most basic of things I was accustomed to like storage, buttons and cup holders. A month later and I was thinking man the BMW is clostrophobic inside. All that big car on the outside with so little space on the inside. I was also grateful for all the crap collectors being gone. All those storage spaces simply collected crap (in my case). I've really come to appreciate the open airy nature of Model S and do not ever see myself going back.
I really can not blame those that see Model S at a disadvantage over 70 mph. I seldom drive in a spirited fashion above 70 mph and, when I do, well that is what the McLaren is for.
It is a new world and one definitely not for everyone. We have been trained to value certain things in a car. These things are those that can be improved, altered or upgraded model to model so that is what is marketed to us and that is what we crave. Model S has something else to offer and that something else is where all the value (and cost to produce) is placed.�
Feb 28, 2016
heems Bingo!! Nicely said.�
Feb 28, 2016
Speedeamon Hello, I'm new to this site but I test cars and write about it. I tested he 2013 Alpina B7 back then and I was disappointed because the handling was so-so and the steering feel was not like any BMW I've ddriven in the past. Perhaps that was the first electric steering. At the limit, I felt a hint of under steer and body roll that bothered me. On the other hand The M6 Gran Coupe was a real BMW and one thatt I would consider. Except I now have a P90D with Ludicrous. It not only handles well and is very stable in corners but instills confidence in driving it hard. What I miss is the snarly exhaust sound�
Feb 28, 2016
desant89 I get it with the Alpina steering, but I don't think most people are getting one of those to road race. I like the soft steering that it has. My whole think is basic essentials inside. Its a family sedan with not cupholders for the kids, not center console or sunglasses. This would be find when cars were first being invented, but since we are so far alond, these are very basic expectations. As for Driveability, I drove a 90D. Being that my Alpina also has X drive, the performance was nothing to speak about when I drove the Tesla, I noticed how abrupt (in a good way)the acceleration is, but again no more than my current vehicle. In talking about luxury sedans, I know there some that do, but we are not really quarter mile racers here. For me the power on the highway nudges out the low end torque as far as importance in this kind of vehicle. I agree with the M6 comments as I also have an M6 vert right now that I am keeping. I am not bashing the Tesla. I do like the car. If I still had my Audi A8L, I would have no issue making the change. I just cannot get past the interior, and basic things that are missing. The drive was so hyped up ahead of time that is was actually underwhelming to both myself, and my wife (again 90D). BMW has a smoother ride, faster, and way more comfortable. I am actually mad that I have the BMW if that makes any sense............. I will remain active in here as everyone in here is great, and also due to the fact that I will own a Tesla.
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Well fortunately, we are talking about family sedans in the post 100k range. So there are expectations. If the ride were better, faster, and more comfortable, I would agree. Given that a family sedan is used to haul a family around, I guess I am expecting too much for my money. I think the technology points are way off in you comments too. I have distronic, and have in my past 4 cars and never use it. I do not think I would be using autopilot, although it is cool, when driving with my children on the highway. However, I will use a cooled seat in the hot summer. Or if my back is sore, a massage can also be nice. I am giving the Tesla the edge on it breaking new ground with technology. The mix is see highly advanced futuristic technology with extremely lacking convenience features that are standard in ANY car. We cannot talk about performance as what is under the hood is not seen, and my car is faster in every aspect than the car that I drove. Even if it were a P90D, I am sure it wins in 1/4, but will get eaten up highway so that comes down to preference. As far as exclusiveness, you can come to your own conclusion. I am not saying an Alpina is the best car in the world. Of course there are much better. I am just comparing a car that I know about to another one that I test drove last week. NOBODY wanted to love the Tesla more than me. I am in a tech field, and live for technology which is why I know I will own on at some point no matter what. However I am not ready to say it is the best thing since sliced bread at this point.�
Feb 29, 2016
Roamer It depends on what you are looking for. The P85D can win drag races while being driven by a 16 year old putting on makeup. Don't get me wrong I enjoy the incredible integration of all the various technology and how it all works together to make the car an incredible machine.
The first time the P85D pulled me thru a tight turn I realized it wasn't a car that required skill to enjoy driving. So my opinion is the P85+ provides the ultimate in real driving experience. Staggered wheels with a big motor driving you forward and steering wheels on the front that can be finessed. Sometimes driving means you actually get to/have to drive the car.
Maybe a comparison between a front drive errand runner and a rear drive muscle car. The P85+ feels and handles like a traditional performance car. Perhaps I am a little nostalgic for the days when you had to drive and control the car. I recall driving my Dodge Viper SRT 10 when it first came out. It was pure animal that had to be tamed and driven. It was never easy to drive and also was never boring. The only driving aid was anti skid brakes. You actually have to drive cars like that.
So yes I enjoy the P85D but find if you want to feel the wheels in a turn you can't beat the P85+.�
Feb 29, 2016
jaguar36 Why are you comparing the performance of the mid-range Tesla (which starts at ~$80k) to a BMW that starts at like 50% more? A P90DL would be a much more apt comparison and it will kill the BMW in acceleration at any speed, off the line (3.2 vs 4.3 0-60) or on the highway (1.8 vs 3.3 50-70mph).�
Feb 29, 2016
lolachampcar Roamer,
My PD is just as lively as my P+; I'm just going faster in the PD�
Feb 29, 2016
desant89 I agree in the quarter it will win by almost a half second (2013 BMW Alpina B7 xDrive Long-Wheelbase 0-60 mph 3.8 | Quarter mile 12.0 from zeroto60times.com). From 50+, I don't think that would be the case. I have watched tons of races. And every one that the Tesla won looked like if it went a few more car lengths, it loses. Just being realistic here. My point was that the performance is not a night and day difference. And for passing power on the highway where everyone is already doing 65-70, the two vehicles will not even be close. And you are right, I previously stated I did not drive the best one, and that would be a better comparison on the performance side. However my main complains with the lack of interior quality and convenience would still be the same. Then again, I am not looking at a brand new Tesla either. Take a year or two old, and the Tesla cost more still. And that is comparing the best model. Mine is a 2013 and right now probably worth 75k having every single option. As of now, I cannot get a P85D for anywhere near that price. I figured maybe I eventually find one for 90k. Maybe have to take 70 for mine. Just does not seem to be worth the 15-20k difference to me. Money aside, the vehicle felt like a downgrade. I am trying so hard to not sound like I am bashing Tesla here as I am not in any way, but at the same time am being realistic and responding to comments. I like the car. It just did not take me by storm likely due to what I currently own, and a few others that I have in the past. I am not the guy who is attached and want to keep my car forever either. I am 42 and have owned over 50 of them, so that not whats holding me back in any way. I do appreciate all the input though from everyone here. I am hooked on this forum and will continue to read it daily. And as previously stated several times, I will own one at some point.�
Feb 29, 2016
jaguar36 The data shows the Tesla crushes the B7 from 50-70mph. 1.8s for the Tesla is better than every car under a million bucks. The 2011 B7 is 3.2s.�
Feb 29, 2016
jpwe10 See this. Ludicrous definitley makes a big difference at passing speeds. And this is a ludicrous P85D, not even a ludicrous P90D, which is even slightly quicker: One Week in to Ludicrous�
Feb 29, 2016
SwedishAdvocate So you have two children, and reside in New Jersey�
Are the following factors in yours and your significant others decision to get, or not get a Tesla (or any other battery electric vehicle):
1. Man-Made Climate Change � which as of today has caused a global mean sea-level rise of ~ 9-10 inches since ~1880 which is already impacting Miami, and also was a factor in the so called �Superstorm Sandy� flooding of NYC in 2012, and the flooding of New Orleans in 2005. And which is causing the current drought in California.
2. National Security. The gasoline you�re filling the B7 and the M6 with is contributing to funding the �Islamic state�, Iran, Russia, Saudi Arabia et. al� With a Tesla that money could be spent supporting US made energy instead.
Why not �at least� sell the M6 (or preferably the B7 as that probably has the worst gas mileage�), and replace one of them with a Tesla Model S?�
Feb 29, 2016
desant89 2011 B7 has 40 less HP thank my 2013. Although I am sure that's not a huge a difference. 50-70 is a highway entrance speed and not relative to me. However I would love to compare on the highway from 70+. Given that the Alpina has nearly a 40MPH top speed advantage, I was thinking it wouldn't be close from 70 on. From reading in here that was the biggest downfall for the Tesla even the upgraded ones, although improved. But here we are comparing it on the highway to a car built to be driven on the Autobahn.....Either way, again performance was not my biggest issue. I am sure the 0-60 is insane, but the Ludicrous puts it even at a higher price disadvantage when searching for pre-owned.
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I actually thought about the M6, but with my equity position on the low side, it didn't make sense to get rid of it and double my cost. I am for being green, but not my total reason for change. There are a million to one gas powered cars sold compared to electric (likely exaggerating there). I know we use electric to power these which does affect environment. I am sure the affect of repairs on a Tesla does not affect the environment, but certainly does the economy when charging 20k to repair a fender (insurance rate hikes etc.). I never questioned my children's safety in the Tesla as I know it is amazing in that category. Only the faith in the car steering itself with them in it. Not knocking anyone who does this, and I am sure it is better when you are experienced with it, but on our test drive, it was going to head into a median if we didn't react. If it causes one accident that causes harm to anyone, it is not worth having to me.�
Feb 29, 2016
SwedishAdvocate There seems to be an easy fix�
Just steer the car yourself. Especially since currently no premium car manufacturer offers a car that can drive itself (!)
I�ve been hand steering automobiles since I�ve got my license some 21 years ago. It�s worked like a charm this far�
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And since I�m such a curious little Swede�
What could possibly be more important than the future of your children?�
Feb 29, 2016
desant89 I understand some people are more extreme than others on this topic, and I will not head in that direction here. If you feel that your car purchase helped save our children, I commend you on that. When I see electric cars are 2-1 vs gas, I would expect a difference with maybe our children's great grand children. If I were truly green, I'd buy an inexpensive electric car that is not overly priced, or 10x the repair cost of another similar vehicle so that I can both be green, and help the economy. I can definitely protect my children's future more by forcing them to have better eating habits, and eating 100% organic also. Like I said, some are more extreme than others.�
Feb 29, 2016
AndreyATC OP,
Any variation of speed that keeps you out of jail is significantly faster/quicker with Tesla
P90D traps at 118mph vs 116 and full second sooner then Alpina
So any reasonable high speed pull is still faster in S
And this is before we even go to conversation on how ICE has to rev and downshift before it gets going
In real life, pretty much at any speed you'd be looking at Tesla's rear end
As for your kids, they'd be pretty happy to exchange comfort of their seats for personal roller-coaster�
Feb 29, 2016
Roamer And I am very confidant you are doing it much better than I can. I always enjoy your comments and perspective on performance driving.
I have a neighbor that has raced the Viper comp coupes for many years. After he finished mocking and ridiculing my silly electric car I asked him if he would lower his standards and tolerate a test drive. We live in a rural area with some nice divided roads with a few sweeping curves. I had him do a full stop heading into a sweeping turn, then said put it on the floor and don't let up until you can't take it. At 110 mph he let off and said "What the hell is this thing, holy s__t. You know the typical reaction...... Can't wait to do it again after I get the ludicrous upgrade installed.
So so yes the PD is incredible.�
Mar 1, 2016
desant89 Makes sense. I have been reading since you posted this and I see it. I just was not really looking at a p90D. Just way too much money for just speed really. I know it is a decent car all around, and I truly wanted to be blown away by it. I just could not get past the mid level interior, and lack of simple things inside. I am probably a few years away from getting one at this point. I want to see what Apple, and google does with their vehicles. Also what happens with Lithium as I know it has skyrocketed due to the high demand. Right now, Tesla has the only beautiful electric car that people do not mind being seen in. I have a feeling there will be some competition really soon that may help save us money, and bring the prices down to where they should be.�
Mar 1, 2016
cab One important to thing to keep in mind is the nature of big high performance, high torque engines is that they too have lots of torque. In addition, they tend to be pretty dang smooth and have very nice automatic transmissions. At part throttle acceleration (i.e. 99.99% of driving), they too feel pretty effortless when it comes to acceleration. Are they single speed, electric smooth - nope. However, we aren't comparing the Tesla to a Camry or an Accord here. The "driving experience" delta is surely still there, but just not as dramatic as it is in some of the comparison we see here on TMC. Indeed, my wife's cars is a Volvo XC60 with 325HP and 354 ft lbs of torque. When we take it in for service, we usually get a loaner with about 75 less HP and 100 ft lbs less torque. The loaner is "fine", but one of the most pronounced differences is the downshifting the lower torque engines require for passing maneuvers (often dropping more than one gear) vs. her car. Her car sometimes requires a downshift and sometimes does not. The torque just carries it. Now, do I like that her car seems to be perpetually out of gas - uh, no. I actually find the cost of filling up to be less annoying than simply having to do so all the time! (Note: full disclosure: I do not own a Tesla, but owned a Volt for 3 years, and have had several high horse V8 cars).�
Mar 1, 2016
AndreyATC Apple and google might be years away if any.
I'm so happy i ditched my 90K Audi and 100K X6M for Tesla, which is my second now, and I've been die-hard BMW fan for years
You can always wait for latest and greatest, but honestly, MS is the latest and greatest IMHO
It may lack some features and finish, but it well makes up with other things
I just came back from 12hr trip towing (yes, MS was towing 1500lb worth of load) and realized that i wasnt beat up at all after such long journey
I used Autopilot 90% of the way and it REALLY helps to get from one point to another safely
Also huge item on my list, i can pre-heat or pre-cool my car from my phone.
It works really well when you have extreme cold or heat season, or dont feel like removing ice/snow from your car
You spend hours on gas stations when you take whole year into the picture
List goes on
Bottom line for me is - i dont even miss any extra features of my ICE cars
With what Tesla has to offer, those fine automobiles become ice age items�
Mar 1, 2016
zzzspeed I am 42 also and go through cars a lot. I just got the P90D model S a week ago and love it. I came from a modified newer Audi S6 which had over 600hp and was amazing with luxury, amenities and performance. I was looking at the new 750, S class sedan/coupe, S8plus, and Range Rover SC. I ruled out the 7 series after a few test drives because the S class was just much better for what I want. I would not even look at Tesla because everytime I sat in one at the mall, it was just so meh! My friends (car enthusiast) said you have to test drive it, it is like nothing else. So before pulling the trigger on a S class, I took the family to test drive it. We then ate lunch, wife said get this over all the others, it is amazing. I agreed and put deposit on it.
It drives just as smooth as the S class, is much faster and enjoyable to drive, has more usable tech and yet lacks the interior luxury I love. I don't mind though. For me it was the best choice, and we are so impressed that my wife now wants to trade in her minivan for the model X.
BTW I have a McLaren 12C and I don't even care to drive it anymore. I will be keeping it for my track days, but as I used to drive it to the gym, I would rather drive the P90D. Its probably because its my new toy for now, but that says a lot.�
Mar 1, 2016
eye.surgeon I would agree with you that if a luxurious interior is a high priority you'd be better off keeping what you have. Many of us came from far more luxurious vehicles, a Range Rover in my case, because the luxury wasn't as appealing as the EV experience. But it's not for everyone. The next gen Model S, if Tesla lasts that long, will no doubt be far more competitive in this area.�
Mar 1, 2016
desant89 I agree 100% with the fact that they will improve. Of course some of us buy cars, and will make it sound like the best things ever due to us having it at that time. Then we move on to something else that is the best thing ever again. Once Tesla improves in comfort, I will definitely be in. In mine, and my wife's opinion, previously having a couple of 7 series(and currently the B7), and an S class in addition to an Audi A8L, the ride was not even close as far as comfort, and I did test drive a 90D with air suspension. I rank the Benz 1st, BMW 2nd, Audi 3rd in that mix. I even had a Hyundai Equus which I loved that I put 2nd to the Benz (burned oil, lemon law buyback). Part of it was due to the seats in the Tesla i'm sure, but it just did not glide like the others. I am into performance, and if I would buy one now, it would be mostly for that. Another thing that I fear is that since the luxury electric class is so new (one company right now), and the fact that I feel it is way overpriced right now, I do not want to be stuck way upside down in something I am eager to get out of in a year.�
Mar 1, 2016
Roamer I love the clean simple and functional interior of the Model S and now the X. I can't stand to sit in the dodaded and over trimmed supposed luxury cars. Lots of useless buttons and bells. Give me clean simple function. It is so serene to road trip in a Tesla.
My first reaction to my first S was almost shock at how simple and functional it was. Now I like it and don't feel like I am in my grandmas living room like when I sit in other car fake cluttered up pretend luxury interiors. More buttons to me just means less effort was put into functional design of the controls.
Old habbits can be difficult to change. I now really like clean and uncluttered.
What you drive should be what you like. Drive what makes you happy. I don't think I could ever go back to driving a dodaded up boat. So I drive what I like also. I can breathe easy with my Teslas. Number five should deliver in a few weeks. Resale is not an issue since we never let them out of the family. I have a really long hand me down waiting list.�
Mar 2, 2016
desant89 I agree to an extent. You pay more to sit in first class on a plane to be comfortable. In this case, I feel like I am paying for it, but not getting it. I do get where simple can be better, but I just expect to pay for simple.�
Mar 2, 2016
Roamer For me the next gen S seats and the perforated seats on the X solved the comfort issues completly. Both are very comfortable on road trips. We recently did an 800 mile + one day round trip in the X. The trip included three hours in LA rush hour traffic to go 30 miles. That delay made it a really long day. Between using auto drive for almost the entire drive and the X perforated seats the trip was very comfortable. My wife commented that she was surprised how nice the over 12 hours in the car turned out. I think the five Super Charger stops also helped prevent tired butt and seat fatigue.�
Mar 2, 2016
SDRick
I can appreciate simple as well although for some functions I prefer a hard button rather than a computer screen. Buttons aside, some of the luxury that euro fans appreciate are things that are not immediately obvious or visible. Things like seat comfort and function(s), soundproofing, soft close doors and interior materials are expected or at least should be offered especially north of six figures.�
Mar 2, 2016
boonedocks @SDRick I think you said it perfectly. I would also be willing to bet that most of the people responding in this thread have NOT owned a maxed out with all the options BMW 7 or Mercedes S. There really is no comparison or way to portray the level of comfort and luxury of these class of cars. As I have stated I have 22K miles on my June '15 delivered Model S85D and would not give it up for any other car available today. With that said, we still take our BMW AH7 out on date nights and long"er" trips because it is one of the most comfortable and luxurious cars available. When NOT in A/P mode in my Tesla, the BMW is still the easiest and best driving car I have ever driven. I feel comfortable saying and backing everything I have said because I DO have 120K miles actually IN that car. If you have ever flown coach and then flown first class in a first class seat, that is a good example of the difference in the way the seats feel and comfort of BMW 7 compared to a MS 85. I am not knocking our Tesla's at all and as I have stated over and over, for my daily commute purposes, I would not have any other car than my MS I have now.�
Mar 2, 2016
desant89 I think you said it perfectly. I agree that most fans likely have not owned one, and driven enough in a 7 Series or S-Class to have a clear understanding of the difference. It is far beyond looks. I have zero attachment to any brand. I had a 7 series, sold it and got an S-Class, sold it and bought an Equus (which I loved by the way), that was a lemon law buyback, next got an A8L, then this time an Alpina B7. Just showing how I can care less about the brand. Heck, I bought a Hyundai luxury car and it was my second favorite to the Alpina. I was so excited to test drive the Tesla. It is all I talked about for a week before it happened to everyone. When I drove it, although not a P, I loved the electronics and technology, I was let down by the comfort and ride of the car not to mention the missing amenities. Anyone who compares the ride of this car to an elite luxury car is way off. Again, it does not ride bad, just not close to those upper echelon vehicles. What bothered me just as much as that it cost as much as those vehicles.�
Mar 2, 2016
3s-a-charm Good point about the buyer demographic. I think a majority of Tesla Model S owners came from "lower end" cars and stretched for the Model S because they felt it was revolutionary, etc. I feel that most who have owned luxury cars for years (in the $130k+ range) would find the Tesla Model S pretty... bland. I'm generalizing here to get the point out that the Model S interior luxury and fit/finish is not as good as most other cars in that price range.
My own opinion: I feel there are way more benefits to the Model S and I probably wouldn't spend $150k on a new S-Class because it doesn't seem that much more advanced than say a 5-series or E-Class for the price. The Model S is worth the price just for the overall driving experience and technology... (to me).�
Mar 2, 2016
hidbigo I have a friend who explained (rationalized) her Model S purchase thusly: "I'm buying a $60,000 car and 'donating' $30,000 to EV research." This made her feel better about the poshness gap with comparably-priced luxury sedans.�
Mar 2, 2016
joetz When you drove the tesla, did you give it full throttle? Because "I loved the electronics and technology" sounds like someone who has never driven the car or at least not driven properly. I've driven all the german cars you own and the torque and smooth power deliver make a german V12 or twin turbo V8 feel a cro-magnon era powertrain. Noisy, rough, weak, and slow to respond. They can't compete with an electric powertrain. The other day a BMW m4 tried to overtake me and by the time he was in the right gear and on boost, I completely smoked his ass and he was several car lengths behind me.�
Mar 2, 2016
tonglaji This is what I will be thinking when I get my MS!
I am a current BMW 5 owner. We frequently go out on lunch trips in a co-work's MS85 with air suspension. In a few times that we took my 5 out, most co-workers would comment that it rides better than the MS85, although the MS85 owner disagrees
It is funny that most MS owners will always default back with the torque advantage in comparison. There is the full spectrum of driving dynamics to compare, straight-line acceleration is just one data point.�
Mar 2, 2016
Nototrader I agree. I have been lucky to own many expensive beautiful cars. My wife never cared for expensive cars and would never care about driving a new S class Benz. However, she is in love with her new model s even though she is probably obvious to its insane 135k price tag. I think it's still missing a few key features but none that can't be added thru software updates. And the next gen seats are pretty comf! We merging onto a highway last night from 0-80 in about 4 seconds with zero effort is priceless.�
Mar 2, 2016
scott jones I had a Tesla and crashed it and a Hyundai Genesis at the same time and I would say the interior and comfort of my 2009 genesis was superior to my $100,000 Tesla and I promised myself after crashing the tesla that I would not buy another one until the interior matches the price tag. currently it does not come close. I'm also waiting for the next battery which I believe will be better and cheaper because of the giga factory and the next sensor suite which will be required for autonomous driving.
theres also the problem with depreciation. It's massive partly because of the interior looking far cheaper than the price tag. It's even worse for the top tesla, which depreciates quicker, although it basically looks identical to the lowest model�
Mar 2, 2016
desant89 I floored it several times. Again, it Was a 90 d which cannot beat either of my cars. And with my tuned m6, I'd love to meet up with a Tesla in a straight run, corners, highway or whatever. I get the instant torque, but let's not get carried away. It's a high torque electric car that is fast. Any sports car pulls on it after the 1/4 mile. I don't care about trap speeds. Ive raced and beat several cars that trapped higher. Can't down talk superior cars. I like the Tesla, but I feel it has a long way to go to be at the 100k plus level.�
Mar 3, 2016
joetz
That must be one hell of a tune because in the real world my dad's M6 grand sport is was nowhere near as fast. In controlled conditions, in the right mode, with a stop watch it could turn in some great numbers and beat a top of the line tesla. In the real world if an opening appears in traffic, the Tesla will absolutely leave it for dead while the DCT figures out what gear it needs to be in and the driver waits for the turbos to build boost (yes there is lag even though it's much less than turbos in the past). I haven't even tried a tesla with ludicrous mode, but I imagine the difference would be even greater
I do agree with you that german fit and finish and material quality is vastly superior though.�
Mar 3, 2016
desant89 I have an MSR intake and a tune with got me to 700HP. I have watched several races online, and even when the Tesla wins (which it does not on all of them) the other vehicles are rapidly closing. Just for peace of mind, I would love to be at highway speeds cruising, and then race one just to see the difference. No doubt amazing torque and insane off the line power, but since most of us do not drag race often, I prefer the highway speed passing power and acceleration. Kind of got off course here though. The power was not in any way the reason I did not buy one. The points that we do agree on are the ones that stopped me at this time. I am a fan and will continue to be active in here every day. When they refine the Model S, which we know they will, I will buy one.�
Mar 3, 2016
R3D-83 IMHO most typical BMW (and basically all German luxury brand) drivers biggest problem would be the range with the Model S. The rated range of Model S is ~300 miles. Now, it's hard to reach even for the most eco-conscious driver. In Europe there's a stereotype about Germans which is like "they paid for the whole gas pedal, so they use it all the way down". Not just on the Autobahn, everywhere. They like flooring the cars, they like accelerating & fast driving. (But this is true for most big premium/luxury car owners over here. The first accessory that they buy for a new car is a radar jammer.�
Mar 3, 2016
desant89 That could not be further than the truth for me. I prefer a soft ride, and extreme comfort which the reason I have had them all. If I drive it, and it has a ride similar to a 50k car, I expect to pay that price. I would sacrifice the speed of the Tesla for it to be more comfortable to drive. Or should I say buy a lower model if it were more comfortable. Range means nothing to me as I work from home. I have not driven anywhere further than 250 miles in years. It's like paying 400k for a 2br 1 bath home when you can have a 5br 3 bath home for the same price. Of course I am exaggerating a bit, but you get the point. Every BMW owner or similar in here has stated that they do not compare in a lot of ways, and quite a few still kept there other car. Of course the Tesla has a fun factor to it which is liley why it gets driven more. Also the major advantage of no gas. Just not enough for me at this point.�
Mar 3, 2016
R3D-83 Please, don't take it as a personal offense! This is just a generalization, based strictly on European experiences. And as always, there are exceptions, you may be one of them. But as I said, this is a general stereotype over here, so it's not only my opinion. E.g. my father's friend average daytime driving speed with an E-klasse is about 150-180 kph on better quality regular roads (with 90 kph limit), but even I do 120 kph on these low traffic roads sometimes, even though I do not consider myself "being a Schumacher".
Anyway... This might be one reason why Tesla's not succeeded in Germany yet.�
Mar 3, 2016
desant89 I agree. I definitely would not even consider one in Germany. Cannot imagine driving with no speed limit. Has to be crazy. Highway speed is so much more important there.�
Mar 3, 2016
Nototrader im not particularly partial to any one brand, but I must say that I find the model s to be an extremely smooth ride...and I've owned 8 bmws (all models) over the past 15 years. I just eventually got bored of the same look so I had to look elsewhere.
It also seems like you are really in love with your alpina. I'm not sure why you are even looking at other cars. I used to own a 750 which I know is slightly different and eventually grew bored of it and felt like an old man driving such a huge feeling car.�
Mar 4, 2016
desant89 I think it being an Alpina takes away the old man feeling that you refer to which I totally understand.
I do love the Alpina, and it would rank first in my list as to vehicles I have owned. However, it is listed on Ebay right now. I am always looking for change. Hard to not like these top end cars, but as you stated, you do eventually get tired of them no matter what. That was part of the lure to the Tesla for me. You wake up, and there may be changes. I will be getting something else soon, but as of right now, it will not be a Model S. I just cannot justify the cost of the top model that I would have to have. I may steal like a 2015 Equus right now as they are relatively inexpensive (owned an 2011 in the past and loved the car), and sit back for a year or two to see what changes come along with electric cars, then make the move.�
Mar 4, 2016
jaguar36 Your choice of an Alpina confuses me. You claim to want a soft luxurious ride, but the Alpina has a sportier, harsher suspension than the standard BMW 750.�
Mar 4, 2016
desant89 Totally different suspension than a regular 7 series. I drive on comfort+ all the time. Last 7 I had was an 07 so I am sure it's different now. I have not driven a 13+ normal 7 series to compare. However, what I can tell you is that the Alpina drives significantly smoother than the Tesla in every aspect. Smooth roads, bumpy roads etc. If it did not, I would lean towards buying the Tesla. My goal was to test drive and buy a Tesla. I wanted nothing more than to love it. Just didn't go that way.�
Mar 4, 2016
Nototrader I'm not sure what price range you are in. You should take a p90d out for a drive. If you like it, then get a used p85d. I doubt you would be disappointed. Maybe second time is a charm.�
Mar 26, 2016
Alex77789 About the quality of driving: I drove two of the models and liked Alpina more. It has smoother handling and acceleration is bigger. Judging by all the criteria I should say that these two cars are both awesome, but BMW Alpina B7 is better. But tastes differ)))
I've found a nice article, by the way. In case you want to know more about the cars--> Zero To 60 To Luxury: The Fastest Classy Cars In The World�
Mar 26, 2016
mkjayakumar Different definitions of luxury and creature comforts. For folks that define luxury as plush interiors, wood every where, amazing interior storage space and dozens of sleek buttons -they should stick to the old world.
To me there is a new definition of luxury that is gaining ground : smooth amazing acceleration, comes with a free chauffeur that drives you around instead of you driving the car, always starting every day morning with 200+ miles and never having to go to a gas station.
That is my definition of luxury. How less stressed I am at the end of a long commute is far more important than those plush interiors.
Recently I drove from Houston to north of Dallas around 280 miles, and I was amazed at how fresh I was with Tesla AP driving me more than 80% of the way.
No amount of plush interiors and bells and whistles would come close to that level of luxury.
The benefits of EVs are hard to explain, but has to be realized by living with it for a month and then you are hooked. You will then laugh silently at those 'luxury ICE' drivers.�
Mar 26, 2016
sorka Um, the Tesla D cars have 31.6 cf of storage space vs the B7's 17.7 cf.....almost double. And that's with both cars having all seats in place. Once you fold the seats down, the Tesla goes to 63.4 cf which is 4 cf more than the SUV we replaced with Tesla.�
Mar 26, 2016
Laserbrain In decades I have never ever seen someone with a radar scanner in Germany. Could be because here they are totally illegal - or very well hidden (from the police.... from the T�V....from the Ordnungsamt... from the car service centers... - from sight). I think even the possesion is already illegal...
And if you say that the Germans like to floor the gas pedal everywhere, this clearly shows that you have never ever been to Germany.
O.k. at least you mentioned that you are just spreading a stereotype. I hope it is just ignorance and not something else that drives your posts.
Nope. Most of the people do not drive faster than 80-95 mph on the unrestricted parts of the Autobahn (even if their cars go easily above 120 mph).
BTW, when you go faster than 80 mph you loose part of your insurance coverage and if you crash at 80+ mph - even if it is 100% the fault of someone else, you get part of the guilt because you where going faster the 80 mph (130 kmh Richtgeschwindigkeit).
And BTW, most parts of the Autobahn has a speedlimit of 62 or 75 mph.
Oh, and flooring a Dodge Hellcat in the unrestricted parts of the autobahn burns 35 liter gasoline per 62 miles which costs 1.50+ Euro per liter in Germany. So you would pay a dollar per mile for gasoline alone and your expected range would be 124 miles.
Normal people with half a brain don't drive like this on the autobahn. Idiots go that fast and there is a good chance you will encounter some of them autobahn. But luckily they are the minority.
And on-topic:
I think the Tesla is better than the BMW because it is silent and has smooth, linear acceleration and you can fill it up at home. Plus, it is simply more exciting (even though the ride is more relaxing). You are driving the future.
It comes down to whether you want to ride a horse with John Wayne or ride the TARDIS with Dr. Who. I would choose the future and the future is Tesla.�
Mar 26, 2016
Soundchasr My last 3 cars have been a 745Li, S550 and A8L. Before I learned about the Model S, I was planning to go for a new 750. I love the comfort and amenities of those 3 cars. Unfortunately, the MS can't compare to them in those areas yet...
However, the MS is a different animal and although we lose some of the creature comforts we gain a different experience that goes beyond what any other car on the road can offer; the MS is changing the world. I think that is what is attractive to a lot of people. On top of that it is a damn fine automobile. Sure, it's far from perfect but it really is quite an achievement. It has some amazing technology.
I've decided to lease the MS and give it a try. Three years isn't that long and if after that time my body aches for the comforts of the German cars I'll be grabbing the latest 7 series. For now, I'm planning to jump into the Tesla world and see what it's like. If I buy the 7 now I'm just buying another car, but by getting the MS I feel like I'm becoming part of history in the making.�
May 1, 2016
once a car guy Okay. I'm late to this but...had an 06 750 '13 750 now a tesla. the tesla is cool for many thing but it is no 750. the tesla is more of an amusement park ride with the neck snapping instantaneous offline acceleration.the seven is a more predictable car to drive. find the tesla will bobble accelerating out of a tight corner i think this has more to do with the steering setup than the cars real stability. I like the tesla for many reasons but also find it a a pain in the ass some days. The seat position for the driver in most cases has the butt of the driver behind the b pillar. This creates problems getting into the car as you have to go in ass first and a pillar is so low the it is difficult to contort into the car. What is strange is that I only noticed this after buying it and not during the test-drive guess i was just excited.now once you are in the car both the a/b pillars create huge blind spots. An entire person can easily disappear behind the a pillar.The screen that was so cool at first blush I find very distracting as I constantly need to look at it to make adjustments to the cars status. Whereas I could learn a conventional cars buttons very quickly and not need to look at what I was doing.My wife mostly drives the car as it was going to be for her but typically i would drive if we were together. This is not the case with the tesla.She drives as i find the car too much work to enjoy the benefits especially on short drives. I will still drive if we are going to be on the road for 20 minutes or more. When we had the sevens i drove overtime. Fortunatley I still have a 1m/m3(e46) a couple 2002tii/ 2 914's/ 300hp vanagon and wife has a couple 1965/6 mustangs in case i need the buttons to fumble with over the uber slick tesla. would i do it again? yes. but I would certainly have the seven as well and will probably get a b7 just cause. oh and if you see a ms with b7 21" wheels that'd be me�
May 2, 2016
sorka There are a litany of common complains with the Tesla but the items on your list are not things I've seen on anyone else's list including mine. I've never experienced any "wobbling" when accelerating hard out of a corner in my P85D nor any of the other items on your list. Itss like you're talking about a completely different car.
And of course you're late. You just joined and this is your first post ever.�
May 2, 2016
RogerHScott I, too, shall be a voice in the wilderness. Prior to my MS, the favorite car I've owned was an Acura Integra GSR. I loved Acuras.
After driving that into the ground we got a TSX -- which seemed like the closest available at that point. While certainly a nice car,
we never loved it the way we loved the GSR -- it just wasn't as fun to drive, even though it was undeniably more comfortable and "high end". Acura has moved away from sporty, efficient, more tech-oriented cars. When it came time to look for a new car we didn't even
look at any current Acuras. When we test drove the MS it was a "this is what I'm talkin' about!" experience -- a much "purer" driving
experience. Do I wish they weighed about 1500lbs less? Sure. Fwiw, I find the next-gen seats to be very comfortable for driving.
I don't know if I'd install them in my living room, but my living room doesn't involve "gee force"�
May 2, 2016
RogerHScott I don't think it is correct to assume that complexity is correlated with cost. I expect to pay for "good",
and in my eye simple is good. Ymmv, of course.�
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