teslamotorclub: Custom Aluminum Rotors

I came across this post of a guy who has made custom 2 piece aluminum rotors for the Elise. I emailed him to see if he'd be down to make some in a 5 lug for the Roadster. He custom makes the hats so its possible. And they're aluminum so lighter but also they won't rust.

Group Buy: Two-Piece Slotted Rotors - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
NEW THREAD = Group Buy: Two-Piece Slotted Rotors - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community

Here's a used set to show you how they wear:

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wiztecy said: ?

I came across this post of a guy who has made custom 2 piece aluminum rotors for the Elise. I emailed him to see if he'd be down to make some in a 5 lug for the Roadster. He custom makes the hats so its possible. And they're aluminum so lighter but also they won't rust.

Group Buy: Two-Piece Slotted Rotors - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
NEW THREAD = Group Buy: Two-Piece Slotted Rotors - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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Color me curious and interested.... Price?
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wiztecy said: ?

I came across this post of a guy who has made custom 2 piece aluminum rotors for the Elise. I emailed him to see if he'd be down to make some in a 5 lug for the Roadster. He custom makes the hats so its possible. And they're aluminum so lighter but also they won't rust.
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Want. But the rotors aren't aluminum. Only the hats are. I would also worry about the hardware to attach the hats to the rotors. The Elise only needs 4 wheel lugs because it doesn't see the kind of torque that a Roadster does. The Roadster is much heavier and would probably need more of those small cap screws holding the two parts together.
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Thanks Henry for the correction on that the hats are aluminum and the disc surface is cast/steel. I also was thinking the same and it caught my eye as well about the size of the hardware on how the hat's were attached to the rotor disc. We can talk to him about that and if we have an idea of what we want we sure can pass it along to him for feedback. I also have to ask for how deep/wide the grooved slots are. Might benefit to go deeper/wider. This helps the brake dust to escape and a place for the heat/off gassing to go. But they might also be just right where they are as is.

So Dave got back to my email today and here's what he had to say:

"Yes, I made those rotor sets. Happy to run a batch if you want to put together a group buy. To hit a 'good' price for the GB, we needed to hit 10(40 rotors) cars back then. I'm guessing we will be similar with the number but everything has gone up on cost by about 20% since then so take that into account when you send out feelers. Many of the folks who bought rotors also bought more aggressive brake pads at the same time, so we may want to bundle those as an option."

Here's the cut & past of his pricing back in early '07:

The pricing Dave put together is per set (four rotor-assemblies) and excludes shipping:
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Option 1 (Basic Setup): $998 per set of four. Total weight savings (all four corners): 5lbs. Cost per replacement rotor without new hats: $145. This option is $200 cheaper than replacing all four stock rotors, reduces unsprung/rotating weight by a significant 5lbs, and the replacement rotors are less than half the cost of OEM replacements.

Option 2 (Lightest Setup): $1158 per set of four. Total weight savings (all four corners): 10lbs (attributable to using a rotor with slightly larger internal venting). Cost per replacement rotor without a new hats: $185. Replacing all four rotors costs about $50 less than stock, but cuts unsprung/rotating weight by twice as much (10lbs!), and the replacement rotors are still less than two-thirds the cost of OEM replacements.

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Today's prices :
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Option 1 -- Cost for all 4 rotors adjusted for 2014 prices(20% increase): (998+199.6): $1198
Option 2 -- Cost for all 4 rotors adjusted for 2014 prices(20% increase): (1158+231.6): $1390
(Need 10 people buying the full set to get the discount)

Feel free to shoot ideas and interests here on this thread and we'll see where we go!

We'll also have to change the title to something more accurate since the entire rotor is not aluminum, don't want to mislead people.
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Related other thread:
EBC Rotor Possible Upgrade and Inquiry - any idea on the specs of our rotors?

I have encountered some Roadsters with upgraded brake systems. I don't know all of the details, but know that they were "one-off" & very expensive, so probably not worth tracking down, but thought it was worth mentioning that others have been down this road before.
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That was me

I like the idea of a two piece rotor design. But EBC would be cheaper for sure and you'd get the slotted rotor design. Last word I received from EBC was that they wanted all the dimensions of the Roadster's front and rear rotor and lug spec. They didn't want to do an new design / machine work for us even though its close to the Elise. Anyone have an idea if the Lotus Europa or Evora has similar dimensions and wheel lug specs?

So Dave just mentioned he'd like to see a set of rotors first to get the dimensions to ensure they're the same as the Elise. Does anyone have a extra front and rear we could send out? If not does anyone live close to or in Portland Oregon? That's where Dave's based.

Thanks!
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Henry, I missed this pic. It was on the Lotus link. It looks like the Hats are secured rather well. He has the orientation the allen head on the inside of the hat. They look like the right size and just would like to confirm he's using hardened bolts (have to inquire on the grade). If you look close it appears he also has safety wired the allen bolts together (by tying 2 together) so they can't back out :

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I love these. Also Aluminum dissipates heat better.

Yes the rotor material must be steel, but I like these a lot.

Is this a reputable place that can make new rotors to fit the Aluminum bits in a few years?

EDIT - Answer was included above about rebuildability. Not about who this guy is or how long he will be around.

Does he make cross drilled pieces?

Best,

T

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wiztecy said: ?

Henry, I missed this pic. It was on the Lotus link. It looks like the Hats are secured rather well. He has the orientation the allen head on the inside of the hat. They look like the right size and just would like to confirm he's using hardened bolts (have to inquire on the grade). If you look close it appears he also has safety wired the allen bolts together (by tying 2 together) so they can't back out :
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No doubt he has wired these for safety. Surprised he is not using ARB's, but old school is good too, just might affect balance at high speed.
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wiztecy said: ?

That was me

I like the idea of a two piece rotor design. But EBC would be cheaper for sure and you'd get the slotted rotor design. Last word I received from EBC was that they wanted all the dimensions of the Roadster's front and rear rotor and lug spec. They didn't want to do an new design / machine work for us even though its close to the Elise. Anyone have an idea if the Lotus Europa or Evora has similar dimensions and wheel lug specs?

So Dave just mentioned he'd like to see a set of rotors first to get the dimensions to ensure they're the same as the Elise. Does anyone have a extra front and rear we could send out? If not does anyone live close to or in Portland Oregon? That's where Dave's based.

Thanks!
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I'm in the Portland, OR area with a 2.5 Sport. I'm kind of overwhelmed for the next month or so as I finish a class, but around the middle of December or later, I would be happy to meet up with this fellow and show him a Roadster. I'm assuming all the measurements and testing he needs to do is non-destructive
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adiggs said: ?

I'm in the Portland, OR area with a 2.5 Sport. I'm kind of overwhelmed for the next month or so as I finish a class, but around the middle of December or later, I would be happy to meet up with this fellow and show him a Roadster. I'm assuming all the measurements and testing he needs to do is non-destructive
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Thanks adiggs! No rush so that works. Rather take our time on these and do it right. Also good to have a connection with a custom fabricator too! I'll forward you his contact info and address in a PM. Yes, non-destructive testing will be conducted.

TOBASH said: ?

Is this a reputable place that can make new rotors to fit the Aluminum bits in a few years?

EDIT - Answer was included above about rebuildability. Not about who this guy is or how long he will be around.

Does he make cross drilled pieces?

No doubt he has wired these for safety. Surprised he is not using ARB's, but old school is good too, just might affect balance at high speed.
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Well as for his reputation, he made these for the Elise back in 2007 and its 2014 and he's still in business so that should say something. Will search more on his name to see if there's any negative reviews but so far his reputation has been pretty good on the Lotus Forum. I think the rotor disc must be from some other manufacturer and he's sourcing the part and making the hats fit. As for the safety wire throwing the wheel / rotor off balance, any weight imperfection close to the rotation of the wheel has very little effect to the overall balance of the entire wheel. We could ask about fitting some other disc of choice, can ask why he chose this one.

As for the cross-drilled rotors, we can ask. But I personally hate them. I've always read that they cause the rotor to crack right from the drilled area. And from my experience they just clog up with brake dust so any thing good they did do such as offgassing/dissipating heat now has been taken away. I've always found slotted to be the best choice for rotors. Retains strength, gets rid of heat, gas, and whisks away brake dust.

Do a search on google for "drilled rotor cracking" and view all the pics. Here's one I pulled that looks as close to our rotor on the Roadster. Notice it has slots as well. No cracking around the slots, only on the drilled sections:

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wiztecy said: ?

Thanks adiggs! No rush so that works. Rather take our time on these and do it right. Also good to have a connection with a custom fabricator too! I'll forward you his contact info and address in a PM. Yes, non-destructive testing will be conducted.

Well as for his reputation, he made these for the Elise back in 2007 and its 2014 and he's still in business so that should say something. Will search more on his name to see if there's any negative reviews but so far his reputation has been pretty good on the Lotus Forum. I think the rotor disc must be from some other manufacturer and he's sourcing the part and making the hats fit. As for the safety wire throwing the wheel / rotor off balance, any weight imperfection close to the rotation of the wheel has very little effect to the overall balance of the entire wheel. We could ask about fitting some other disc of choice, can ask why he chose this one.

As for the cross-drilled rotors, we can ask. But I personally hate them. I've always read that they cause the rotor to crack right from the drilled area. And from my experience they just clog up with brake dust so any thing good they did do such as offgassing/dissipating heat now has been taken away. I've always found slotted to be the best choice for rotors. Retains strength, gets rid of heat, gas, and whisks away brake dust.
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Agree with everything you said, but note I mentioned balance at "high" speed. The higher the speed the closer the weight needs to be perfect, and weight imbalances closer to the center manifest.

Once upon a time, in another life almost, I needed to balance my rotors on my '79 T/A LTD. 10'th Anniversary Ed. because I had issues at 115 and not lower. I couldn't get the shimmy to go away after checking tires, rims, brakes, bushings, tie rods, rear axles, bearings, etc... Finally I had a friend at a speed shoppe get me new rotors. First set of rotors were NOT warped, but turned out there were just a couple of ounces of steel stuck in a vent. Problem disappeared with new rotors. Damned Ol' Injun!

It is obvious you know your stuff, but little imperfections become evident the closer to 3 digits we get.
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TOBASH said: ?

Agree with everything you said, but note I mentioned balance at "high" speed. The higher the speed the closer the weight needs to be perfect, and weight imbalances closer to the center manifest.

Once upon a time, in another life almost, I needed to balance my rotors on my '79 T/A LTD. 10'th Anniversary Ed. because I had issues at 115 and not lower. I couldn't get the shimmy to go away after checking tires, rims, brakes, bushings, tie rods, rear axles, bearings, etc... Finally I had a friend at a speed shoppe get me new rotors. First set of rotors were NOT warped, but turned out there were just a couple of ounces of steel stuck in a vent. Problem disappeared with new rotors. Damned Ol' Injun!

It is obvious you know your stuff, but little imperfections become evident the closer to 3 digits we get.
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There's not enough weight in those wires to cause any balance problems. They are also balanced before shipping and I wouldn't be surprised if he assembles them with wire before balancing. He has a great reputation with the Lotus community and has sold A LOT of these rotors to people who drive very fast.

My fear has more to do with the number of screws, not whether they will back out. The Roadster has a lot more torque applied to the rotors when the brakes are applied because it's heavier than a lotus. He's using grade 8 (hardened) cap screws but they can still shear. I've read the Lotus thread about these rotors and the guy knows his stuff. If he thinks it's safe then I would trust him but I'd like to get his opinion. I also want his opinion on whether they rust as easily as the stock rotors.

He was selling them for $1207 for a set of 4 back in 2008 before getting too busy and turned it over to a retail aftermarket supplier (I know the feeling!). Assuming 20% increase that's only $1,450 per set which is very reasonable and less than Tesla charges for rotors that aren't as good. Nobody bought the heavier ones. I want some if he thinks they're safe on a Roadster.
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Dave came back and it was around $1400 he's estimating for all 4 rotors:

"Once you get an idea of the interest I can get together price estimates. $1400 a set would be a guess-timate if they are similar in size to the Elise, lower weight and better braking with correct vaning for the air flow and slotted to clean the pads."

Very good point Henry about shearing off the bolts. I'll add you to an email I have with Dave so you can ask some technical questions on the rotors.

Dave does fabrication for other cars as well. Here's what he said when I asked him about where he sources the rotor discs:

"Most of our car parts are prototyped in house and we do final assembly/QC for CNC'd parts. The rotors are made to my specification and cast/machined in the US."
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UPDATE:
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Henry and myself have been communicating with Dave regards to the rotors. We're modifying the design of the rotors a bit. For one we need to be confident that mounting of the hat to rotor disc will hold up to the Roadsters increased weight and torque of that of the Elise. For that Dave will be adding two more mounting points, so instead of 8 hardened bolts he's going to use 10. That's the same amount of bolts that he uses for the Acura NSX rotors (which he also makes).

The second requirement we were looking for were corrosion resistant rotors. We looked at using different alloys/materials but they were not cost effective, wore too quickly as apposed to the steel, or not within reach of the suppliers we have access to. Henry had an idea of targeting what Chevy did with the Volt, they use a Ferritic Nitro-Carburizing (FNC) process which basically injects and atomizes Nitrogen into a very hot (750F+ degree oven) that gives the steel a durable hardened surface, basically a coating. With this process the hardened surface is really good at repelling corrosion such as rust, but also as an extra benefit the rotor surface becomes amazingly hard so they don't wear down as fast. I did some research and calling today and found a company in San Jose who does this FNC (steel heat treatment) process. I talked to the contact, indicated our requirements and expectations and he confirmed he can do this job for us. Treating all the rotor discs with the FNC treatment. He also indicated he can add another process if we like to help prevent corrosion which is an additional oxide process they'd put the discs through. Its black oxide, you'd see this with gun barrels and steel machine parts that are prone to corrosion. I do believe this will wear off eventually, so the disc braking surface will be prone to this. The venting of the rotors of course will benefit from it. I have to ask more to see really what happens here as well as cost.

I passed this idea as well as the FNC contact I had made to Dave where he agreed this sounds like the route to go in terms of making the rotor corrosion resistant. It should be the cheapest way to go as well vs. using another alloy and the most durable one as well.

The next step is to have Dave measure the front/back rotors to get the exact specifications. He wants to guarantee the disk has the same geometry as the Elise rotor. Adiggs has graciously volunteered to help us here since he lives in the area. So sometime in the middle of December, if this still works, he'll drive over to Dave's shop. They'll have to jack up the Roadster and remove the front and rear wheels so Dave can get accurate measurements.

Since we're adding the FNC process and possible black oxide process the cost will go up some. But I truly believe the final outcome of the rotor be quite a bit better. I don't see this process being too extreme in cost, but I've never done it so I really don't know. But we'll try to do it as economical as possible. Such as to piggy back on another FNC job since the rotors don't take up all that much room in an oven.

So to make this worthwhile as well as cost effective to get a group rate we need a target of 10 sets of rotors. So a set would include both front and rear cast steel discs that have gone through the full FNC heat treatment process bolted to their aluminum hats which are nickle plated. We can discuss the black oxide coating and I can further inquire regards to the price increase.

I know I'm interested in purchasing a set, Henry is interested in a set. I don't know if TOBASH is interested in a set. So if you have interest in the group buy let us know so we can keep moving forward. Thanks!

Also floating around changing the title to this thread to, "Custom Brake Rotor Upgrade - Group Buy". Better suggestions for a title are welcome.
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I'm in! It's looking like the price will be less than what Tesla charges for replacement rotors. But these will be much better. They'll be lighter by 10 lbs which is most important in rotating unsprung weight, much more corrosion resistant, and GM's research reported slightly better braking power. Thanks to wiztecy for getting this going.
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This question is probably a bit off topic, but related - the change in rotors would go well with the Carbotech brakes/brake pads, would it not? I ask as I've never been one to tweak my car, but for some reason, I'm thinking it worthwhile / fun for the Roadster. And the way I read things, that's one of the bigger upgrades for little money that makes a difference in how the car drives.

I'm at least considering getting in on this (probably with performance driving school next summer too ...).
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adiggs said: ?

This question is probably a bit off topic, but related - the change in rotors would go well with the Carbotech brakes/brake pads, would it not? I ask as I've never been one to tweak my car, but for some reason, I'm thinking it worthwhile / fun for the Roadster. And the way I read things, that's one of the bigger upgrades for little money that makes a difference in how the car drives.

I'm at least considering getting in on this (probably with performance driving school next summer too ...).
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Yes. Actually Dave recommended changing out the pads to a high performance pad which they did on the Elise forum, but we already found we like the CarboTechs so they'll work very well with these rotors. I agree that this is one of those upgrades that will make a huge difference in the way the brakes feel and perform. Also in going this route we can always have new rotor/discs made up without being dependent on Tesla. And braking is one of those components on the car that is never bad investing in, the better and quicker you can stop the better off you, others, and the Roadster is in the long run.
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Would you recommend messing with this while car is still under warranty? I'm interested as well.
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dsm363 said: ?

Would you recommend messing with this while car is still under warranty?
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I'd be shocked and amazed if it had any affect on your warranty. We've all replaced our pads already and they didn't complain about that (except they won't install them for us). You can always put your old rotors back on. The new rotors will be better quality, and race-track tested on a car that's heavier than the Roadster. Seems like everybody wins.

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adiggs said: ?

This question is probably a bit off topic, but related - the change in rotors would go well with the Carbotech brakes/brake pads, would it not? I ask as I've never been one to tweak my car, but for some reason, I'm thinking it worthwhile / fun for the Roadster. And the way I read things, that's one of the bigger upgrades for little money that makes a difference in how the car drives.
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Can't find it now but when GM researched the FNC treatment they found shorter stopping distances in wet weather, and after the rotors would normally have formed a thin layer of rust. This is because they are more corrosion resistant so they don't get as much rust build-up which is important for any EV. They should work great with the Carbotech pads.
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The Elise rotors are not the same castings as the Tesla. The Tesla hubs are larger so the center portion of the rotor is also larger. Shouldn't be a problem if the aluminum hats are made to fit. The biggest problem I see is that the rear rotors on the Tesla are about an inch bigger in diameter than the front, while the Lotus uses the same front and back.
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MLAUTO said: ?

The Elise rotors are not the same castings as the Tesla. The Tesla hubs are larger so the center portion of the rotor is also larger. Shouldn't be a problem if the aluminum hats are made to fit. The biggest problem I see is that the rear rotors on the Tesla are about an inch bigger in diameter than the front, while the Lotus uses the same front and back.
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Interesting. I always thought they were the same. One thing that Dave did for the Lotus rotors to save weight was to reduce the dimensions in the rear to match the path of the pads (+1mm) which is about 5mm less than the full inside and outside diameters.
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I had a discussion with Martin Eberhard some time back where I mentioned how bad the Roadster's braking was, saying they're borderline dangerous. He indicated that the Roadster's braking system was beefed up/bigger than the Elise. I was perplexed since the pads/calipers were the same and the rotor's didn't seem that much larger. But now I guess he was talking about the larger rear discs. Makes sense now, however still not adequate to stop safely. Kinda silly going larger on the rear rotors with such skimpy rear calipers and pads. Surprised they didn't go 1" larger in the front as well where the pads and calipers are acceptable in their size. I personally have seen warping on the rear rotors of the Roadster and this makes sense if the calipers are working as hard as possible, but with such a small foot print they'll generate more heat. Hence where the slotted rotors with the aluminum hats will help dissipate and expunge the heated gasses better than stock.

Thanks for letting us know!
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I've had my Roadster about 6 weeks. Have rad many negative posts about the brakes. I've tried many rapid stops on quiet streets and freeway off ramps, going from 60 to zero as quickly as possible. Brakes seem good to me compared to my most recent Porsche, an '09 Cayman. As far as I know my Roadster has the stock pads. It has just under 14K miles on it.
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The brakes on the Roadster don't bite with the stock pads, they rather gracefully glide it to a stop. They also won't be there for you when a hard stop is needed. The CarboTech AX6 pads feel like airbrakes in a sense on an F-15. They bite hard when you need them to. I love having confidence I have much improved stopping power over stock while driving in traffic.

A true test on the braking system is to go 60-80mph, put the Roadster in neutral and then try bringing it to a full stop. That'll give you a pretty clear picture of how well or not those brakes bring you to a stop.

I do notice when I use the brakes hard and longer such as on windy roads pushing it, I feel the rotors are the next limiting factor and feel the braking system is still not functioning up to par. Especially compared to the Roadster's performance and handling. I feel a proper sports car must have brakes that are at least comparable but realistically should be better than the performance of the engine/motor/handling of the vehicle. Proper braking is fundamental to the handling and safety of both the driver and the vehicle itself.

As for comparison, the brakes on the Roadster are far worse than the Cayman in terms of true stopping distance.

The 2010 Roadster stops from 80mph to 0mph in: 210ft.
The 2006Cayman S stops from 80mph to 0mph in: 190ft.

That's a 20 foot difference!!! 20 feet can easily allow you avoid or create a collision.

The 2009 Lotus Exige S 260 Sport stops from 80mph to 0mph in: 196ft.

*Note that the 2009 Lotus Exige S 260 is lighter than the Elise (which the Elise is lighter than the Roadster).

2006 Cayman stat (can't find an '09 spec):
http://www.roadandtrack.com/cm/roadandtrack/data/RT_2006-Porsche-Cayman-S_data.pdf

2010 Roadster stat:
2010 Tesla Roadster Sport - Road & Track

2009 Lotus Exige S 260 Sport stat:
Lotus Exige S 260 Sport vs. Nissan Nismo 370Z - Road & Track
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Have you tried "emergency style" stops in wet weather?...I found the stock pads incredibly bad when it's raining...

ecarfan said: ?

I've had my Roadster about 6 weeks. Have rad many negative posts about the brakes. I've tried many rapid stops on quiet streets and freeway off ramps, going from 60 to zero as quickly as possible. Brakes seem good to me compared to my most recent Porsche, an '09 Cayman. As far as I know my Roadster has the stock pads. It has just under 14K miles on it.
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Worst-case scenario... Drive in the rain, let the car sit overnight so you have nice rusty rotors, and THEN try to do an emergency stop. With the stock pads you'll be in trouble. This is the biggest advantage of AX6. One braking operation and the rotors are cleaned off.
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Doug_G said: ?

Worst-case scenario... Drive in the rain, let the car sit overnight so you have nice rusty rotors, and THEN try to do an emergency stop. With the stock pads you'll be in trouble. This is the biggest advantage of AX6. One braking operation and the rotors are cleaned off.
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That squishy slidey feel the first time or 2 hitting the brakes when the rotors have had an opportunity to get wet is just miserable. I've learned to plan for it, what with driving the car through the winter in Portland, but that doesn't mean I remember every time. That's entirely the wrong feel to get back from the brakes.
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I'm in for a super light set.

Best,

T

P.S. - PM me all the information for the order.
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TOBASH said: ?

I'm in for a super light set.

Best,

T

P.S. - PM me all the information for the order.
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Ok, will keep you in the loop about the progress.

As MAUTO indicated, you can look at the drilled holes (5 of them) in the rotor and notice the front has more rotor than the back which shows the front is bigger than the back.
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Bump in the thread and another confirmation that slotted rotors are better than drilled:

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He expressed an opinion, "slotted better than drilled", without actually saying WHY he has that opinion.
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Doug_G said: ?

He expressed an opinion, "slotted better than drilled", without actually saying WHY he has that opinion.
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Doug_G, this comment goes back to a conversation earlier in this thread where I was asking if this gentleman could drill and slot, and he provided pictures of cracks through the drilled holes. His opinion was that slots alone are superior as holes crack and fill with dirt, making them dangerous and useless.

I'm not sure I agree, but I hope this makes things clearer about where he is coming from.

Best,

T
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Yes, it would be better if he actually stated why they were better. For me, I believe I mentioned this before, slotted allows heat as well as other elements to off-gas, it also allows brake dust to be taken into the slot then blown away after it exits the pad and makes the revolution around. As for drilled, I've seen many pics of drilled rotors cracking which appear to be mostly from the larger drilled holes. As for the Roadster the drilled holes offer a place for the brake dust to collect, they block, and then become very limited for offgassing. And my theory when its raining is that all this dust turns to muck / slime which then pours all over your rotor limiting the braking ability when wet.

I'll try to find some metrics if any on slots vs. drilled performance.

I've also put slotted rotors on my Dodge truck which I also increased the rotor size and placed better pads on. Before the truck could barely stop itself, faded hard upon heavy breaking with no load in the truck. I now feels bite and stop better with my 2300 pound camper loaded, then another 600+ pounds of camping weight/food/water. No fading and pure bite. When braking if feels like I could have the camper fly off! However in that case there were 3 things I did change out. But all three I feel are essential for proper braking of a vehicle. Also it was a standard disc brake upgraded to slots on my truck.

[Update]

Here's a good link / write-up on the comparison between flat, slotted, drilled, slotted + drilled, as well as floating rotors. Its interesting they note that drilled rotors are best in rainy / wet conditions:

http://www.zeckhausen.com/How_to_select_brake_rotors.htm

Smooth rotors offer the quietest operation, lowest dust and longest pad life. If you have a luxury car that is not driven aggressively, this may be your best choice. Often used by endurance racers who need to survive a 24-hour race without a pad change and are willing to give up some performance to achieve that. Typically these are the lowest cost option. Some premium products, such as Centric Parts High Carbon rotors, are available with directional internal cooling vanes (there's a left and a right side part number), even though the factory rotors may use straight vanes. See "Which Way? How to properly install plain, slotted or drilled brake rotors" for more details.

Slotted rotors offer improved bite (initial onset of braking) and slightly higher friction level than smooth rotors. Slots prevent reduction in friction due to pad outgassing or brake dust trapped between pads and rotors. Pad coefficient of friction is maintained over the lifetime of the pads, since slots shave away glaze formation and expose fresh pad surface each time brakes are applied. Slotted rotors are by far the number one choice for cars used in competition or open track events. Best choice for heavy trucks and SUVs, particularly when extra bite is needed for towing. Disadvantages include slightly reduced pad life, some low frequency rumble and pedal flutter when braking hard from high speeds. If the slots are improperly machined all the way to the outside edges, then rotors may develop cracks sooner than plain or properly slotted rotors.

Drilled rotors offer slightly more bite and friction than slotted rotors. As with slotted rotors, pad coefficient of friction remains consistent over their lifetime. Wet bite is improved over plain and slotted rotors, so these may be the best choice for areas with heavy rainfall, like Seattle or Singapore. Weight is reduced by about 0.2 pounds per rotor, depending on size and drill pattern. Disadvantages include possible uneven rotor wear, typically concentric groove formation, although this is mostly an aesthetic concern. A major disadvantage is accelerated formation and spreading of cracks under racing conditions. For this reason, drilled rotors should be avoided for track cars, unless required by the rules. A common piece of misinformation is that they have lower performance than smooth rotors, due to reduced surface area and are for looks only. This is false.

Slotted & Drilled rotorsoffer a compromise, midway between the benefits of slotted rotors and drilled rotors. These are fine for street applications, but should be avoided for track cars. For the first time, slotted & drilled rotors are starting to appear on some cars as delivered from the factory, including models from BMW and Mercedes.

2-Piece Floating rotorsconsist of an iron "friction ring" assembled with float hardware to an aluminum hat or mounting bell. These are available slotted or drilled. 2-Piece rotors offer substantial weight savings over the 1-piece rotors described above, as much as 10 pounds per rotor, depending on the specific application. The design allows the outer friction ring to expand as it's heated, without being constrained by the center section. This prevents rotor "coning" and subsequent tapered pad wear and spongy pedal. Because the center section and friction ring are fabricated from dissimilar materials, conductive heat transfer is reduced, lowering wheel bearing temperatures dramatically. Outer friction rings may be replaced when worn, while reusing the center hat, at substantial cost savings. Click HERE for more details on the hardware and assembly of StopTech floating rotors. For track cars, these are absolute best choice and should be used when available. A disadvantage is significantly higher initial cost. For street cars driven in high-salt/chemical environments, corrosion between the iron friction rings, aluminum hats, and float hardware may lead to reduced product lifetime. This can be mitigated by flushing the brakes with water frequently or swapping back and forth between "summer" and "winter" brakes.

�

I can certainly agree that drilled rotors are problematic for track use. The drill holes are where the cracks start. In fact it takes just a couple of track days with my C6 for hairline cracks to start forming around the drill holes.
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Here's an informative video on the benefits of a 2 piece floating rotor which these rotors are we're looking to have fabricated. He also goes into describing about what a full floating rotor is which is used in supercars. Interesting seeing the slotted not drilled rotor used in the supercar rotor design( drilled not used due to cracking I'm sure). It appears they went smaller in size with the slots, more of them, not as deep but wavier. The two piece rotor offers the benefit of preventing warping of the rotor since the heat becomes more evenly distributed across the disc as well as the benefit of keeping heat away from the wheel bearings. Slotted rotors are recommended for vehicles that are carrying more weight. I can contest on the improvement it makes with my truck. I do believe the Roadster will benefit from its design, since I feel we're pushing the braking system of the Roadster WAY too hard.

The Roadster's braking system is based on the Elise which so much lighter. 739 pounds lighter! Every pound of weight counts when to stopping, it has lots of energy moving forward that needs a counter-action. So we're trying to stop 739 more pounds with basically the same braking system as what's spec'd in a lighter equipped car! The CarboTechs helped out a good bit, but there still needs much improvement in this area. Rain is an issue, at least for me. Stopping in the rain does not match the car's acceleration. Also when you really do drive the Roadster spirited the rotors do show significant signs of needing improvement. With braking its money well spent.

tesla roadster weight - Google Search

2011 Tesla Roadster

Luxury vehicle

Body style: Convertible

Horsepower: 288 HP

Curb weight: 2,723 lbs

Payload: 550 lbs

2006 lotus elise weight - Google Search

2006 Lotus Elise
Luxury vehicle

Engine size: 1.8L

Horsepower: 190 HP

Curb weight: 1,984 lbs

MPG: 24 city / 29 highway

Fuel tank capacity: 10.6 gal

2,723lbs-1,984lbs=739lbs

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Wiztecy - put me on the list, rather than just thinking about it. My wife and I've been talking about it and what with driving the Roadster daily through the winter rains here in Portland, we've decided this moves from nice-to-have to must-have
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Thanks Adiggs!

So I have the following who're committed to the rotor set:

-Hcsharp
-Tobash
-Dsm363
-Adiggs
-Wiztecy (me)

Anyone else? Once these are being made its a done deal and I'm sure we won't be making any more hats. We can however have more disc's needed as they need to be replaced.

Honestly, this is the best place to put your money. When it comes that you can't brake in time, its done and the damage easily will exceed the cost of upgrading your braking system.

Also these rotors should remedy the rear warped rotors of setting / pulling the emergency brake when parking the Roadster while the rotors are hot.

Lastly look at the benefits of having a reduction in "unsprung" weight, the weight we're saving by making the hats aluminum. Some benefits are better response from the suspension since less weight has to be dampened as the wheel comes up, improved acceleration and braking since the rotating weight has significantly been reduced.
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Wiztecy:

Will Tesla install these in one of their SCs, or will everyone be doing themselves or using their local garage? I'd be interested, but, over here in Hong Kong, I'll be relying on the local Tesla SC to help me install. I will also ask them direct, but wondered what other folks will do.

Appreciate input/thoughts.

Thanks.
Volta.

wiztecy said: ?

Thanks Adiggs!

So I have the following who're committed to the rotor set:

-Hcsharp
-Tobash
-Dsm363
-Adiggs
-Wiztecy (me)

Anyone else? Once these are being made its a done deal and I'm sure we won't be making any more hats. We can however have more disc's needed as they need to be replaced.

Honestly, this is the best place to put your money. When it comes that you can't brake in time, its done and the damage easily will exceed the cost of upgrading your braking system.

Also these rotors should remedy the rear warped rotors of setting / pulling the emergency brake when parking the Roadster while the rotors are hot.

Lastly look at the benefits of having a reduction in "unsprung" weight, the weight we're saving by making the hats aluminum. Some benefits are better response from the suspension since less weight has to be dampened as the wheel comes up, improved acceleration and braking since the rotating weight has significantly been reduced.
Click to expand...

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Any chance the vendor is willing to roll model S rotors into the group buy? Obviously the rotors are completely different and would basically double the vendor's workload (design, Fab, etc), but it would significantly increase their guaranteed buys.
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Volta said: ?

Wiztecy:

Will Tesla install these in one of their SCs, or will everyone be doing themselves or using their local garage? I'd be interested, but, over here in Hong Kong, I'll be relying on the local Tesla SC to help me install. I will also ask them direct, but wondered what other folks will do.

Appreciate input/thoughts.

Thanks.
Volta.
Click to expand...

Hi Volta,
I would have to say to be safe that Tesla won't install any aftermarket part on Tesla. However it can happen, such as with the Carbotech brake pads. So you'd have to first inquire to see if they'd do both the pads and rotor. If not, the next best place to take the Roadster is to a Lotus Elise mechanic that has a good reputation. The brake system is basically identical. Feel free to PM me if you have any more questions.

bxr140 said: ?

Any chance the vendor is willing to roll model S rotors into the group buy? Obviously the rotors are completely different and would basically double the vendor's workload (design, Fab, etc), but it would significantly increase their guaranteed buys.
Click to expand...

At this point it would be more of a distraction, but possibly in the future after these have rolled off. I don't think there's an issue with braking on the S, at least not like the Roadster. The S's braking system was designed for the S's weight from the beginning, the Roadster's braking system was not, it was for a car that was 740 pounds lighter hence the need for the rotors in order to stop safely in all types of driving conditions.
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I suspect that some Tesla service centers (or individual Rangers) will be willing to swap pads, perhaps on the QT. That is a trivial and very safe modification.

I doubt any would take on rotors.
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wiztecy said: ?

At this point it would be more of a distraction, but possibly in the future after these have rolled off.
Click to expand...

Understood.

Yes, for S owners its almost exclusively an unsprung/rotating mass thing. The brakes are plenty good for normal, spirited, and emergency braking.
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Doug_G said: ?

I suspect that some Tesla service centers (or individual Rangers) will be willing to swap pads, perhaps on the QT. That is a trivial and very safe modification.

I doubt any would take on rotors.
Click to expand...

Tesla in Long Island will not. Silly really.

The stock pads are weak. They really should allow some non-factory upgrades to allow for safer modifications.

IMHO.

Best,

T
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Hi Wiztecy - put me in for two sets!

Thanks for putting this together,

-Jonathan

wiztecy said: ?

Thanks Adiggs!

So I have the following who're committed to the rotor set:

-Hcsharp
-Tobash
-Dsm363
-Adiggs
-Wiztecy (me)

Anyone else? Once these are being made its a done deal and I'm sure we won't be making any more hats. We can however have more disc's needed as they need to be replaced.

Honestly, this is the best place to put your money. When it comes that you can't brake in time, its done and the damage easily will exceed the cost of upgrading your braking system.

Also these rotors should remedy the rear warped rotors of setting / pulling the emergency brake when parking the Roadster while the rotors are hot.

Lastly look at the benefits of having a reduction in "unsprung" weight, the weight we're saving by making the hats aluminum. Some benefits are better response from the suspension since less weight has to be dampened as the wheel comes up, improved acceleration and braking since the rotating weight has significantly been reduced.
Click to expand...

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visionik said: ?

Hi Wiztecy - put me in for two sets!

Thanks for putting this together,

-Jonathan
Click to expand...

Yeah, if I'm not too late, put us down for a full set too.
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I had a vehicle with aluminum (or something similar) brake rotors on it. If any of the members here ever owned a Rav4-EV they had them also. They were very light weight and the rotor and hat were a one piece design. I bought a spare set for the car as I was worried that they might be hard to get after the vehicle went out of production as they were specific to the EV. I remember that during the design of the EV model, Toyota was trying to maximize the vehicle range and one of the things was to reduce the rotational mass in the driveline---therefore the lightweight rotors. The rotor surface was extremely hard---after 40K miles there was no wear or marks on the surface. The factory pads caused the rotors to squeak on many owners cars but someone found that changing to a different pad (Raybestos quiet stop II) eliminated the problem. As they were aluminum, there was no painted surface on the hat section to deal with and no corrosion either. Tesla engineering should find out how those rotors were made and look into that type of design to address several problems at one time.
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Reading through the Roadster 3.0 blog post, I don't see enough information to answer this question - only enough information to cause the question to arise: will Roadster 3.0 package changes be effected by the presence of the custom rotors we're looking at doing?

Of course it gets simple if it's a package deal and we can pick and choose the pieces we want. I don't have an answer - only a detail that I plan to keep an eye on as we get more details.
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I was thinking the same thing. Don't know what to expect from Tesla, they mentioned that they're reducing drag from the braking but have no mention of an improvement with its performance when its used for braking. If it was the big brake upgrade they were working on over a year ago, I would think for sure they'd mention that it greatly enhances the stopping characteristics too.
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As someone who recently purchased the extended service agreement I would be hesitant to purchase these at this time. Wiztecy always has amazing information on improving the Roadster and I would go in if it wouldn't violate the ESA.
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bart513 said: ?

As someone who recently purchased the extended service agreement I would be hesitant to purchase these at this time. Wiztecy always has amazing information on improving the Roadster and I would go in if it wouldn't violate the ESA.
Click to expand...

Changing the rotors should not have any effect on the warranty. If anything it helps out the car, less heat transferred to the wheel bearing since the hat is aluminum. Cast will transfer the heat more directly to the wheel bearing, and heat dries out grease then kills the bearing. I've had it happen before on a Mercedes. Never will I buy that crappy car again unless its the forever living Classic! 1999 E300 Turbo Diesel. Wheel bearings didn't have enough grease, at 80k miles one side dried out, catastrophic failure, and completely and left me stranded in the middle of no-where. Called a friend to take me home, next day had to bring my air tools and grinder to cut the inner race of the bearing that was welded onto the front axle due to the intense heat. Cleaned it up, put a new bearing on and away I went. Was a Japanese bearing on a German car. The Japanese don't know how to make bearings, Germans do. But for some reason I presume saving a few cents, Mercedes (partly owned by Chrysler) put Japanese bearings in. Anyways, pulled off the opposite wheel and the grease was so minimal that it heated up and dried out. Hence why the other side failed was my conclusion. Too much grease is bad, not enough grease is really bad. There has to be enough in there for the known heat generated so it does not dry up and damage the bearing. When your wheel does not spin, and nobody is around, you really start to think about a proper design and also how many other people are out there stuck in this condition, possibly worse, over an over looked spec and QA evaluation.

But as we know with Tesla, each service center is different. Some are very cool and understand cars very well as well as the dynamics of them. Others go by the "Tesla" book. So best thing to do is ask someone you know well there.

Also will be going over to my friend's place who has the previous "unreleased" Tesla brake upgrade to take a gander at it. I believe its a dual piston front caliper. I don't recall if they did anything to the rear calipers which I feel it needs it more there than the front. Also don't know if its a drilled or slotted rotor, most likely they did drilled.

I still want to move forward with these rotors, and those who don't want to commit and go in I understand. Just let me know via a PM and I'll remove you off the list. From the performance I've seen from slots this should clean up the braking very well and what I feel is safe and to what the Roadster can demand in all weather conditions. I'll also get some details from Dave the fabricator about the before and after performance from Elise enthusiasts who're running them. We should see a better outcome since we're trying to stop more weight than the Elise and that's the area where slots work very well at. And if we want to move to a bigger front caliper that's dual piston that should be doable as well. There's a bracket for the Elise that allows this.
�

I remain committed to these rotors. If there is another caliper option, please PM me the information or post it here. I HATE THE TESLA STOCK BRAKES!!! THEY ARE UNSAFE IN SUCH A FAST AND HIGH END CAR!!!
�

Please add me to the list for the upgrade. Thanks!
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Thanks Tobash!

Also added Roadster08 to the list.

Special Thanks to Adiggs who took his time to meetup with Dave the Fabricator who needed to measure the rotors for the project. Will update once we get new status.
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wiztecy said: ?

Thanks Tobash!

Also added Roadster08 to the list.

Special Thanks to Adiggs who took his time to meetup with Dave the Fabricator who needed to measure the rotors for the project. Will update once we get new status.
Click to expand...

Oh the sacrifice, driving out into the hills and through the twisty bits, to meet up with Dave and talk about Roadsters

Happy to help, and from the conversation we had while Dave was measuring things out, I think it was important for him to see a Roadster and the braking system in person (even if a whole bunch of the conversation was him educating me!)
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Adiggs/Wiztecy: Do you have the measurements of the rotors? From trying to find an aftermarket replacement rotor, I believe there is the possibility that the Roadster uses the same rotors as a Saab 9-3 or Pontiac Solstice/Saturn Skye. These have a 5x110mm bolt pattern and Brembo has a nice online catalog with dimensions of all their available rotors. Another possibility is the Opel Speedster. I have included a diagram of the rotors for a Speedster to see all the measurements that Brembo has.

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Fabrizio said: ?

Adiggs/Wiztecy: Do you have the measurements of the rotors? From trying to find an aftermarket replacement rotor, I believe there is the possibility that the Roadster uses the same rotors as a Saab 9-3 or Pontiac Solstice/Saturn Skye. These have a 5x110mm bolt pattern and Brembo has a nice online catalog with dimensions of all their available rotors. Another possibility is the Opel Speedster. I have included a diagram of the rotors for a Speedster to see all the measurements that Brembo has.

View attachment 67935
Click to expand...

Hi Fabrizio, I don't have the measurements, but David - the fabricator Wiztecy has been working with - got a whole pile of measurements from the rotors on my Roadster earlier in the week. The only one I remember is that 5x110 bolt pattern and how unusual seeming that was to him (so he remeasured at least 3 times to confirm).

I suspect that you spotting something in the wild with the same measurements, along with the rest of this technical drawing might be of help to David.
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The characteristics we're targeting with the custom rotors are:

a) substantial lower rotational mass due to the aluminum hats - this will improve the Roadster's ability to accelerate, brake, and add overall efficiency which in theory should improve range. Handling also should show improvement. How much? We'll have to find out for ourselves, but these are all the benefits of lowering rotational mass at the wheels/rotors.
b) slotted disc design - better braking in the rain as well as a true way of expelling brake dust from the pad
c) Due to the 2 piece design with the cast rotor ring and inner aluminum hat, heat is evenly distributed and with that heat dissipates faster. Also less chance of the rotor of warping.
d) putting the cast discs into a special treatment to make them corrosion resistant so rust is very minimal when its raining - copying the Volt process

David who's the fabricator is also looking into other options to increase braking, he's doing some research to see if larger pads can be used on the Elise calipers, etc... I'll see what he comes back with.

Interesting enough, there's lots of brake rotor and "big brake" options available for the Elise, however many hardcore guys racing the Elise from the Lotus forum asked David to make these rotors for them and have been very happy with them. So following their footsteps I feel very comfortable this will be a choice where we'll see great results without a big brake uprade.

I don't think we need to go crazy with a big brake on the Roadster for street driving since the Carbotechs work great, it just needs one more notch better so the Roadster can stop safely in the rain and also to be consistent in braking when the Roadster is driven in a spirited manner.

Earlier on I looked at EBC slotted rotors, the guy was helpful and said if I sent him measurements of the rotor he'll cross-reference to see what cars they match up to for both the front and rear. Although they're slotted rotors at a very inexpensive price, I just wasn't sold on them. I don't know if the Saab 9-5, Opel, or other cars have a wide variety of high performance rotors. I don't think there is, I tried doing a quick search and didn't find anything all too exciting.
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The Roadster was engineered with a lot of off-the-shelf parts. With GM's relationship with Lotus, it is not surprising to find GM parts on the Roadster. I had confirmed that the bolt pattern for the rotors and wheels is 5 x 110mm. In doing a internet search I found that the Cadillac Catera, Chevy Cobolt/HHR/Malibu, Pontiac G5/G6/Solstice, Opel Speedster, Saab 9-3/9-5/900/900S and Saturn Astra/Aura/L/LW/Skye all have the same bolt pattern.

On another post, the diameter of the rotors are listed as 300mm front and 310mm rear. AP Racing made the OEM rotors/calipers/pads on the Roadster and they make 2 piece racing rotors in the 300/310 mm diameters (slotted, drilled & slotted/drilled). Here is a diagram of the 300mm rotor with dimensions.

If David can share the measurements he took from Adiggs' Roadster, it would help locate the sourced part for the rotors and then from there, we may be able to find replacement parts that meet our performance needs and save us money (such as these).

Of course, who knows what new changes to the brakes for 3.0 will entail.
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The AP Racing 2 piece rotors for the VX220 are a direct fit. They come in several sizes. http://www.vx220parts.com/products/category/2/braking-systems/
This whole thread about custom making something that already exists from the OE supplier puzzles me. The Lotus guys might want to save a couple hundred bucks, but I think most Roadster owners want OE parts.

FYI -you can buy a set of four (yes FOUR) generic Centric 308 mm slotted rotors from Ebay for $181 shipped. The rear are a direct fit (the loss of 2mm dia. is of no concern as the rear pads are 1mm from the edge already, as is the 1mm thickness). Just install a 3/16 washer under each front caliper bolt and you're done-instant wet weather brakes. I take the AWD STI if I need to go out in the rain, so the damp/rusty brakes problem never bothers me.
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I was considering this set http://www.vx220parts.com/products/show/21/1498/full-brake-upgrade-package/ for the Speedster/VX220, but I think I will wait for the 3.0 spec and price first.
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That wont work. The VX220 stock rotors are the same as the Lotus-288mm. I know that the Tesla rear spindles have the caliper mounting holes machined further outward to use the 310mm rotor. I cant remember exactly how the front was. The VX220 must use the Lotus spindles.
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Here's the latest information I have on the custom rotors from Dave who'll be fabricating them. Great news, Dave came in under his original estimate. We're looking at $1032 plus the cost of the metal treatment for a set of 4 slotted rotors:

--------------------
"I will get a quote on the hats next week, looks like the iron friction disks and mounting bolts, assembled will be $158 each if we do smooth rotors, add $18 each if you want slots. (8) 5/16" grade 5 fasteners will increase the strength from the Elise sets I have made in the past by 54%, should be more than enough to offset the 40% increase in weight of the Roadster. Fasteners will be safety wired post assembly.

4 rotors w/fasteners, assembled, smooth $632+treatment
4 rotors w/fasteners, assembled, slotted $704+treatment

My plan is to use the same hats on all 4 wheels to get the cost down for these parts, 40 of the same parts will be ~30% less than 2 set of 20 parts. The increased weight should not be a big detractor for street cars. As a reference in 2008 when we did the last big batch of Elise rotors, cost for the hats were $85 each with nickel plating. I would guess we can get sets of 4 for about $400 for loose planning.

I will close the loop with the treating company to get an idea of cost and lead time for their part of the project."
--------------------

So the latest estimated cost would be:

Slotted Rotors: $704 for 4 slotted rotors + $400 for the 4 nickle plated aluminum hats = $1104 for the complete set plus the cost of the metal/rust treatment.
Smooth Rotors: $632 for 4 smooth rotors+$400 for the 4 nickle plated aluminum hats = $1032 for the complete set plus the cost of metal/rust treatment.

I see no reason personally to run smooth rotors. But if that's something you desire, its an option, just let me know if you want smooth. Otherwise the choice will default to slotted.

I'll ask Dave what type of payment he accepts. I know he has a business, possibly he can accept credit cards. Otherwise I can ask for his paypal account and we can send the money that way.
�

This is a response I received from AP Racing when I inquired about replacement parts:

Good Afternoon

Thanks for your enquiry.

The pad set number (4 pads) for the Tesla calipers is CP5119D50KX-T4139.

The caliper part number (RH/LH) is CP5134-6/7T0.

The discs (�300x26mm) are CP6552-102/3SD: LOT .

These are AP Racing part numbers but you will need to contact Tesla to order the parts.

Thanks & Regards
�

wiztecy said: ?

...
I'll ask Dave what type of payment he accepts. I know he has a business, possibly he can accept credit cards. Otherwise I can ask for his paypal account and we can send the money that way.
Click to expand...

When he did this for the Elise and NSX owners he didn't accept credit cards or PayPal unless you paid the processing fee - about 2 or 3%. He accepted checks. Keep in mind these figures are a preliminary estimate and don't include shipping and corrosion resistance coating. The order also has to be pre-paid.

He owns a machine shop and has a great reputation in the Lotus community. He's been involved in racing for a long time and has a wealth of information about braking systems.

I'm looking forward to this. It will provide better braking and performance. Lighter un-sprung weight = better acceleration and handling.
�

I interested as well, please add me to the list. Thanks!
�

TSLAVP16 said: ?

I interested as well, please add me to the list. Thanks!
Click to expand...

Great! Confirmed and added.
�

Might be interested as well, however, I do a lot of driving in rainy conditions too. As wiztecy posted in #33, drilled would be the way to go then. Could it also be possible to have Dave the Fabricator make a set that's drilled instead? Or would that just complicate a group buy?

Further, (potential dumb question alert) is an upgrade of the pads mandatory with these new rotors, or could I stay with the orginals?
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GVTesla said: ?

Might be interested as well, however, I do a lot of driving in rainy conditions too. As wiztecy posted in #33, drilled would be the way to go then. Could it also be possible to have Dave the Fabricator make a set that's drilled instead? Or would that just complicate a group buy?

Further, (potential dumb question alert) is an upgrade of the pads mandatory with these new rotors, or could I stay with the orginals?
Click to expand...

I don't think Dave wants to touch drilled rotors, he only gave 2 options which were smooth or slotted. Best option I feel would be slotted.

As for upgrading the brake pads, even if you chose not to go with these custom rotors I suggest personally its mandatory alone to upgrade your pads to what we've found to work very well with the Roadster which are the CarboTechs. You can read up on the pads you can go with, the AX6 which are the streetable / autocross compound or the street compound BobCat 1521. You can also try other pads if you like, but these have yielded fantastic results on the Roadster. If you do go with the custom Rotors and you already are running the Carbotechs, you can use the existing pad as long as your previous rotor was fairly smooth (to ensure the pad is smooth) and that pad is not cracked (which I see no reason it should be. The stock pads are known to crack / break apart). Finally, I would then do the bed-in process with the new rotors. Either way, existing or new pad the bed-in process will need to be performed on the new rotors. I would guess if the brake pads had any type of grooves from the rotor you could shave/sand that down as well. I'm going to use my existing Carbotech pad I'm running on the stock rotor which is smooth / no grooves, and sand down the pad to get a nice surface working for the bed-in process when the new rotors go on.

With the new rotors we're looking to do two heat treatments (to prevent corrosion/rust), the first with be the nitrogen treatment, the second will be the black oxide. The nitrogen treatment is basically the same thing they do on the Chevy Volt and leaves a sand blasted look / grey color on the rotor. Results have shown that braking in wet conditions have improved using this process on the rotor. The second and final coating will be a black oxide, this is the coating you see in the EBC slotted rotors, it looks anodized. This too has been shown to improve braking performance in the rain. It also will offer a nice look and protect the rotor.

So in the end we should have a slotted cast rotor that's all black including inside the veins, and then a nickle plated inner aluminum hat. Should look pretty sweet and perform even better.
�

Was impressed with the Nitrogen research you did and the black final coating sounds fantastic. I can imagine how the black performance wheels will look with these black rotors.

wiztecy said: ?

The nitrogen treatment is basically the same thing they do on the Chevy Volt and leaves a sand blasted look / grey color on the rotor. Results have shown that braking in wet conditions have improved using this process on the rotor.
Click to expand...

Somehow missed the 'braking better in wet conditions' part when reading about the Volt-treatment, but sounds even better. We got some Volt's here as well so I'll check out on their rain performance and report back with a n=1 test result.
�

All, we have the final pricing and we currently do have the 10 rotors required to make this production run happen. Please let me know if the list is correct, meaning if you're on it that you're still committed and the quantity is correct or if you're interested in a set and would like to be added to the list.

We're looking for the total price to be: $1,595

This will include:
-Aluminum inner hats that will be nickel plated added for corrosion protection
-Cast steel outer steel rotor - slotted design
-FNC (ferritic nitrocarburizing) metal treatment - is a series of case hardening processes that will diffuse nitrogen and carbon into the steel rotor surface. This will help prevent corrosion as well as help performance in wet braking conditions. This will be the 1st coat of the rotor surface.
-Black oxide - a metal treating process that adds a corrosion resistant coating to the rotor's surface. It is found to also help with performance of braking in wet conditions. This coating will be the last and final coating on the rotor.
-Rotor assembled using hardened bolts that are safety tied to prevent any chance of the bolt from backing out while in use.

Below is a picture of what a rotor looks like with the black oxide coating. Note this is a random 1 piece slotted rotor I pulled from the Internet. The rotors we're making are a two piece design, where the aluminum hat or inner part of our rotor will have a shiny nickel finish and the outer cast steel disk will have black oxide outer finish:

As for weight of the 2 piece rotor compared to the stock rotor, we won't have that until the rotors are made. What we can say is that they will be lighter than the stock rotors. Dave offered a lighter option where the hat sizes would be different from the front vs. the back. This then drives up the cost of production since two hat designs and runs need to be executed. Cost went up $500 / set. Dave also indicated he could make them full-floating, again driving up the cost significantly. We wanted to keep the cost down but add as many benefits as we could at the current price point. We're at the same cost as the stock Telsa rotor but with many many more advantages that will aid in performance as well as overall durability. So I feel its a great value for the performance that'll be achieved.

I have the following list with those who're interested in one or two sets of rotors. Please verify that this is correct and also if you want to add, remove, or change the quantity ordered in the list. Once the order has been closed and production has started, we won't be able to change the order. I also don't see us making another run of these disks again. One thing is that the Roadster does not really wear through rotors, so this will be most likely the last and only set you'll ever need. I contacted Dave to see if that we ever did need to have the outer steel disk ring made, that he would be able to make those for us in the future. Again I don't see us having a need for this.

Here's the current list as of 1/08/2015:

-Hcsharp: (1 set)
-Tobash: (1 set)
-Adiggs: (1 set)
-Wiztecy: (1 set)
-visionik: (2 sets)
-ggr: (1 set)
-EMF: (1 set)
-Roadster08: (1 set)
-TSLAVP16: (1 set)

I hope I didn't miss anyone, if so please let me know.

Total sets of rotors to be ordered: 10
*Note: 1 rotor set = 4 individual rotors (2 front rotors, 2 rear rotors). Both the front and rear rotors will use the same exact aluminum hat which allows a lower cost in production and final pricing.

As for time, Dave indicated 12 weeks from when the funds are received to complete the order.

As for payment this is what Dave indicated:

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Checks for payment works great for me, that way there are no fees, great for everyone! Get the ball rolling and use my address below for the checks, make sure everyone includes:
$1595 check or money order
shipping address
contact phone number
contact e-mail address

I will contact each individual when the rotor sets are ready to ship and we can arrange payment for shipping at that time, CC or PP payment.
--------------------

So on our side, we need to make sure the list is correct and add anyone new who's interested in a set. Once that's done/finalized, we then will coordinate a time frame to send Dave a check or money order as well as your contact information. I'll then have Dave confirm via email that he had received your order, and when he has received the 10th payment to let us know he's moving forward with production. After he's done with the production run and the rotors are assembled he'll email each person on the list indicating their rotor set is complete as well as the exact cost of having the rotor shipped to you. Payment for shipping the rotors would then be paid to Dave via money order, check, credit card, or paypal. Once shipping payment is received by Dave he'll then ship out your set of rotors.

If you have any questions feel free to respond to this thread or PM me.
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One suggestion wiztecy - I would take this most recent post out to a new thread, as we're moving out of the realm of possibility and into the "we're doing this" realm. A new thread might have the beneficial side effect of drawing others that have been on the fence into action.
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I'm not backing out or anything, but wondering... doesn't the 3.0 upgrade include changes to brakes? Might we want to hold off on this purchase until details become available?
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adiggs said: ?

One suggestion wiztecy - I would take this most recent post out to a new thread, as we're moving out of the realm of possibility and into the "we're doing this" realm. A new thread might have the beneficial side effect of drawing others that have been on the fence into action.
Click to expand...

Will do, just need to come up with a catchy title! Will contact the mods when I do. Thanks!

ggr said: ?

I'm not backing out or anything, but wondering... doesn't the 3.0 upgrade include changes to brakes? Might we want to hold off on this purchase until details become available?
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Thanks for not backing out ggr

We really don't know what the upgrade will be for the brakes. One thing I can say, it won't be cheap and it won't be $1600 either. I'm also certain they're not going to put the rotors through a single let alone a double metal treatment process to prevent corrosion.

If people want to wait it out that's fine. But those who're committed and already know they don't want to move to what Tesla is offering, we can start to get the ball rolling.

I don't want to rush or pressure people either, just want to keep things moving forward.
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Is Dave not willing to do a second batch in the future if there are enough people? That way the people who want to see what the 3.0 upgrade offers will get a chance as well. Thanks.
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dsm363 said: ?

Is Dave not willing to do a second batch in the future if there are enough people? That way the people who want to see what the 3.0 upgrade offers will get a chance as well. Thanks.
Click to expand...

If you can get 10 people again in the future and he has time available he may be able to, but its not guaranteed. I was lucky to get him at a time where he wasn't too busy with his other commitments and businesses.
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Rotors

How long should these rotors last? How does that compare to the standard rotors?

Thanks.

David
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ViperDoc said: ?

How long should these rotors last? How does that compare to the standard rotors?

Thanks.

David
Click to expand...

Since we don't use our brakes as much as a traditional car our brakes and rotors will last longer. Dave told me that since the CarboTechs have such great initial bite that a trade off is that they'll also wear the rotors faster. Honestly I don't at all see significant wear on my rotors after putting the CarboTechs on and look almost exactly as what they looked like when I had the rotors cold cut when the Roadster had 6,000 miles. That's when the CarboTechs went on. I don't see any grooves in the rotors and the CarboTechs are running flat across the rotor. I now have 40,000 miles on my Roadster. Dave also said since we don't use our brakes as often that they should be the last set we'll need on the Roadster, hence why he was pointing to the full floating and super light option that would have ran $3,000.

What will wear off over time will be the metal treatment that we're layering on. The first to go will be the black oxide where the brake pad rides on the disk, the next will be a tougher layer which was done with the FNC process, but that one is more durable than the black oxide. That should take some time to get though both of those. And even so, you could pull the disks off the hats, throw on your original Roadster rotors, and have the disks re-treated. They just need to be cleaned up very well so the surface has a good area for elements in the process to bind to.

Lastly if you do find you need another set, say you're racing at the track every weekend, the entire rotor does not need to be replaced. Only the outer cast disk. The inner aluminum hat is re-used. So that will be cheaper to replace, then you're under the cost of what replacing a single stock rotor would be from Tesla.

Henry, adiggs, and myself have been communicating together with Dave for over the past month asking questions, getting measurements, asking more questions, so I want to send a special thanks to those guys in helping to move this forward.
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Here to report back on the Volt brakes. They did some excellent braking when I tried to 'hurt' the car. So the Ferro Nitrogen treatment on their rotors, to me, looks fine!

Wondering though, could combining a second treatment affect or somehow adversely interact with the first treatment? Have the factories offering the treatment made any comment on that?
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ViperDoc said: ?

How long should these rotors last? How does that compare to the standard rotors?

Thanks.

David
Click to expand...

He said "This will be the last set of rotors you'll ever have to buy for your car." Based on the comments in the Lotus forum, he's right. And most of those comments were from racers who beat their rotors pretty hard. My OEM rotors often have a thin film of rust from washing the car a lot and general wet weather. The nickel-plated aluminum hats will never rust. While the friction disks can still rust, they are far more resistant to corrosion.

I'm pretty excited about this upgrade. Here are the benefits I expect:

Lighter with resulting performance improvement

Vastly improved corrosion resistance. No more rusty rotors.

Slightly improved braking when wet, no brake fade and pad loading from rust.

Longer lasting than OEM rotors for about the same price.

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Adding ViperDoc to the list.

Current list as of 1/09/2015:
-Hcsharp: (1 set)
-Tobash: (1 set)
-Adiggs: (1 set)
-Wiztecy: (1 set)
-visionik: (2 sets)
-ggr: (1 set)
-EMF: (1 set)
-Roadster08: (1 set)
-TSLAVP16: (1 set)
-ViperDoc: (1 set)
--------------------
Total sets: 11
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All,
Here's the address and information to send the checks to Dave. Once he's received the 10th payment he'll start moving forward with production.

**Please include and indicate your TMC member screen name with your payment**

Make the check payable to Dave Levy and mail to:

ATTN: Dave Levy
Cedar Ridge Fabrication
15707 NW McNamee Road
Portland OR 97231 USA

Phone: 503-621-9670
Fax: 503-621-9670

Dave also gave me his cell phone which I don't think we need, nor do I want to post it due to web scrapers and privacy. However if you need it feel free to PM me.
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Will be putting my check in the mail today or tomorrow! Looking forward to receiving these, wish they would come sooner!
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Roadster08 said: ?

Will be putting my check in the mail today or tomorrow! Looking forward to receiving these, wish they would come sooner!
Click to expand...

Awesome, Thanks! I'm also looking forward to it as well. Washed my Roadster yesterday and the stock rotors instantly turned to rust.
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Got my check filled out - putting it in the mail today.
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adiggs said: ?

Got my check filled out - putting it in the mail today.
Click to expand...

Great Adiggs! Sent mine out as well. Other members also PM'd me to say they sent their payment in the mail, so thanks a bunch everyone.

Dave the fabricator wanted to ask if anyone wanted to have a set of CarboTech brake pads bundled with their rotors. I don't know what the interest is but if we have enough interest Dave will contact CarboTech to see what type of deal they can pass along to us. If you have interest in this, let us know as well as if you would like the AX6 Autocross or Bobcat 1521 Street compound. Once I see how many are interested via this thread or PM I'll forward that off to Dave and see what the pricing comes out to be. I'll be running the same AX6 pads I put on at 6,000 miles, they still have plenty of life left and wearing flat so there's no need for a new set. I'll just sand down the pad surfaces and bed them in again when the new rotors arrive.
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wiztecy said: ?

Great Adiggs! Sent mine out as well. Other members also PM'd me to say they sent their payment in the mail, so thanks a bunch everyone.

Dave the fabricator wanted to ask if anyone wanted to have a set of CarboTech brake pads bundled with their rotors. I don't know what the interest is but if we have enough interest Dave will contact CarboTech to see what type of deal they can pass along to us. If you have interest in this, let us know as well as if you would like the AX6 Autocross or Bobcat 1521 Street compound. Once I see how many are interested via this thread or PM I'll forward that off to Dave and see what the pricing comes out to be. I'll be running the same AX6 pads I put on at 6,000 miles, they still have plenty of life left and wearing flat so there's no need for a new set. I'll just sand down the pad surfaces and bed them in again when the new rotors arrive.
Click to expand...

Yes, I'd be interested in that. I would just have to go out and buy them anyway, and I'd be likely to screw up and buy the wrong ones.
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I mentioned this separately in email, but I'm also interested in the 1521 CarboTech street compound pads; I'm always in for saving a few bucks, and will be changing pads at the same time the new rotors go on (so a package deal, like ggr, saves me the opportunity of getting the wrong pads )
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wiztecy said: ?

Great Adiggs! Sent mine out as well. Other members also PM'd me to say they sent their payment in the mail, so thanks a bunch everyone.

Dave the fabricator wanted to ask if anyone wanted to have a set of CarboTech brake pads bundled with their rotors. I don't know what the interest is but if we have enough interest Dave will contact CarboTech to see what type of deal they can pass along to us. If you have interest in this, let us know as well as if you would like the AX6 Autocross or Bobcat 1521 Street compound. Once I see how many are interested via this thread or PM I'll forward that off to Dave and see what the pricing comes out to be. I'll be running the same AX6 pads I put on at 6,000 miles, they still have plenty of life left and wearing flat so there's no need for a new set. I'll just sand down the pad surfaces and bed them in again when the new rotors arrive.
Click to expand...

I would also be interested, was going to get new pads at the same time. Dave is awesome!
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Carbotech

Roadster08 said: ?

I would also be interested, was going to get new pads at the same time. Dave is awesome!
Click to expand...

I would be interested in a set of pads to start new all around. I would go for the Carbotech AX6, though my current set have seemed to wear fast (and I don't drive aggressively). Carbotech already offered a small discount if you mentioned the Tesla Motors Club�if Dave gets a better deal that would be awesome. I am going to be needed new pads soon, so I hope the rotors can be fabricated in the near future!

My check went out s few days ago.

David
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I'm in too. Thanks.
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LAST CALL: Please send payment now to be included in this Custom Rotor Order

All, this is the last call to be included in this custom rotor group buy we have going. If you have any technical questions or would like to have a discussion please use this existing thread. However to be included in this production run/order, please communicate that in the thread below:

LAST CALL to ORDER: Custom Tesla Roadster 2-Piece Slotted Rotors

**If you have not sent your payment, please do so ASAP or you will be removed from the list**
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Im interested in a set of light weight aluminium Rotors, what do they weigh? what improvements have people experienced in performance, handling acceleration? any times etc? has braking improved? any drawbacks?
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Here's the thread for the 2 piece rotor order: Now Shipping: Custom Tesla Roadster 2-Piece Slotted Rotors

I don't have the numbers but they are buried in one of these two threads and if you search them you should be able to find the difference in weight, the weight that's lost is due to the center hat that's usually made of cast steel made of aluminum and its all about unsprung weight. As for times nobody did any comparisons and its not something that you're going to shave seconds off your 0-60 times by one single improvement. However when combined with other things like forged rims, adjustable suspension, and like what I did put in monoball bushings, then everything starts to work together and become improved by the reduced weight. Biggest improvement is braking, no more uncertanties when braking at high speeds or pushing your braking hard through twisty turns which begins to heat your rotors / pads and reduces your braking performance. CarboTech pads were a great improvement over stock, but honestly, they're just a band-aid to the real issue, the braking system that was / is flawed from the stock Roadsters when you push the car the way it was designed to be, a supercar.

After installing the CRF 2 piece rotors I had asked Titanium Dave to make for us Roadster owners, based upon the design he was using for those racing the Elises/Exiges on the track, all that uncertainty of will this car stop when its being pushed are gone. For myself there's no more to do here with the braking system for daily street driving where you push the car hard and mild track use with the Roadster.

Its the cheapest insurance policy as well and why risk smashing up the Roadster on an known under-designed braking system that should have been flagged from the beginning, where any repair of the Roadster will cost you $3k or more and invest in a nice set of 2 piece custom slotted rotors.

Lastly the Roadster will need rotors sooner than later since it will start warping them if ran with the stock pads for too long, mine warped in the rear at only 6k miles! The OEM replacement cost from Tesla is around the same price of what it costs to buy these 2 piece custom rotors.
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wiztecy said: ?

Here's the thread for the 2 piece rotor order: ...
Click to expand...

He's talking about aluminum rotors including the friction disks, not just the hats.

There was a short discussion here a few years ago about possibly making some custom aluminum rotors. The manufacturing process sounded difficult (read expensive). They have to be cast from a special alloy that has a higher melting point than most aluminum variants. In the end they didn't sound like they'd be worth it.
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teslamotorclub

Thứ Bảy, 28 tháng 1, 2017

Custom Aluminum Rotors - A possibility part 1

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