teslamotorclub: Announcement of new Model S June 9th part 1

There was a Twitter post by a Danish auto news site saying a new Model S will be announced today (around 9:00EST):

AutoWeek on Twitter

The news/rumor was also posted here:

Today a new version of Model S will be announced. � /r/teslamotors

Not sure what to make of it but wondering if it will be a new battery (P100D!) or maybe even Autopilot 2.0?
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Wow....what to do. My 90D with all options with the exception of the subzero package has an estimated delivery date between late July - August. I wonder if Tesla will give an option to add those new features or will they add them in without any additional cost (doubtful, but hopeful). Any opinions?
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Dan1 said: ?

Wow....what to do. My 90D with all options with the exception of the subzero package has an estimated delivery date between late July - August. I wonder if Tesla will give an option to add those new features or will they add them in without any additional cost (doubtful, but hopeful). Any opinions?
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After doing some searching, I was able to find on the Tesla site they will either build per order, cancel the current order and move forward with the new pricing/options. I am not certain if the $500 change order fee is applicable in this situation.
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TorqueIt said: ?

There was a Twitter post by a Danish auto news site saying a new Model S will be announced today (around 9:00EST):
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Autoweek is Dutch. Anyway, I guess they'll put the falcon wing doors on the S
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I haven't visited the design studio for a while, but it is new to me that a 60kw version is sold, and that it can be upgraded to a 75kw via SW (the SW upgrade from 70 to 75 is known)
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Thar she blows.
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My thought is future owners with delivery scheduled in the near future will be badged with 90kw markers but have a 10k option to "unlock" the 100kw battery.

My 90D delivery window was first "Late June / July" but just got narrowed down to "June 12th-June 19th"!

Just reported a 60kw battery as I am writing this:

With Model 3 demand surging, Tesla is bringing back a $66,000 version of its Model S
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Kim.T said: ?

I haven't visited the design studio for a while, but it is new to me that a 60kw version is sold, and that it can be upgraded to a 75kw via SW (the SW upgrade from 70 to 75 is known)
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That's new from today so that was probably what would be announced today.
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Base price is now $66,000 for Model S 60 kWh RWD. Adding the range upgrade to 75 kWh makes it $74,500.
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Upgradeable after purchase to 75... So this is just the same battery, but more software locked? Crazy.
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That's a good move. There's little upgrade incentive moving from 70 and 75 but going from 60 to 75 will be a lot more tempting. While, at the same time, it lowers entry point which could in turn enable Tesla to sell more cowbells upfront.

+1 Tesla
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I'm willing to be that 60 is upgrade-able to 75 via software.
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Note that the new-again S60 is like a reduced S70:
- Supercharging included
- "Infinite miles" battery failure warranty.
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Many of us have been joking that our 70D refresh models were going to be rare, but I didn't think it was coming this soon. We'll see if anything else gets announced though - guess the prohibitive favorite is ventilated seats
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L-P-G said: ?

I'm willing to be that 60 is upgrade-able to 75 via software.
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No betting, it absolutely is. Enable after delivery for $9,000.

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On the website now. No more Model 70 or 70D. Starts at 60, upgrade able to 75 for $8500. You can now get into a Model S for $66,000..or $58,500 after tax credit.
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Does this make the refreshed 70s (that have the option to upgrade to 75) more unique and perhaps more valuable? Thoughts?
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I am a bit curious as to how 10KW adds 22 miles from 60D to 70D, yet 5KW adds 19 miles from 70D to 75D
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Looks like there is new pack offer
Another software limited 75kw?

Good bargain

Order your Tesla Model S | Tesla Motors
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Just saw on LinkedIn that there is a promotion to order a new 60. It takes you to the Tesla Design Studio, where you see the below pic. It then has a option to upgrade from the 60 to the 75.
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This is a smart move by Tesla to bring back the S 60 at a lower price than in the past. In the US it is now $66,000 for a base 60. I think it used to be $70,000.

I think this is the first time that Tesla has lowered the price of the base S. But that price includes features that in mid 2013 cost extra or didn't even exist, for example; active safety, folding mirrors, parking sensors, LED headlights, free for life Supercharging.

The base 60 is quite a compelling car at a great price. Oh, and it's EPA rating is 210 miles, it used to be 208.
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Karynt said: ?

Does this make the refreshed 70s (that have the option to upgrade to 75) more unique and perhaps more valuable? Thoughts?
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Not at all. If anything they are worth less because the base price of Model S went down. Instead of buying a used 70, someone might get a new 60 if they don't have the need for the extra range. Plus both are upgradable to 75 kWh (just different prices to upgrade since the increased capacity is different).
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On LinkedIn, there was a release from Tesla.

Model S 60 & 60D now available starting at $66K ts.la/UYRR

It takes you to the Design Studio for the Model S and has the following options.

Model S 60
Model S 60D
Model S 75 (upgraded 60)
Model S 75D (upgraded 60)
Model S 90
Model S P90D
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This version of the 60 is Supercharge enabled. Not sure if the previous 60 came standard with Supercharging. Pretty good price for someone not wanting to wait for the Model 3.
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70D was $75k
Now it's either 60D for $71k or 75D for $79.5k.

Seems like a price increase to me for those who needed the range of a 70/70D
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So does the pack have the extra cells already in it to enable 75KWh? And if so, are those cells always charging with the others? I would think they'd have to otherwise, they would eventually drain down and go bad. So does that make the charging take longer, even though you aren't getting the benefit from the extra time?
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rcsting said: ?

This version of the 60 is Supercharge enabled. Not sure if the previous 60 came standard with Supercharging. Pretty good price for someone not wanting to wait for the Model 3.
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It did not. It was $2000 to enable it.
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All S60 (CPO or New) are supercharging enabled. When it was the 40kWh battery and then changed to the 60 kWh battery is when they made the Supercharging part of the package. There were a lot of 40/60 owners that paid for the Supercharging, but that has not happened since 2014. All Tesla's come with Supercharging enabled. It is built into the price of the car, and not listed a an additional option. So technically you are paying for it.
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A new model S for $60k after tax credit is a pretty good deal.
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ecarfan said: ?

This is a smart move by Tesla to bring back the S 60 at a lower price than in the past. In the US it is now $66,000 for a base 60. I think it used to be $70,000.

I think this is the first time that Tesla has lowered the price of the base S. But that price includes features that in mid 2013 cost extra or didn't even exist, for example; active safety, folding mirrors, parking sensors, LED headlights, free for life Supercharging.

The base 60 is quite a compelling car at a great price. Oh, and it's EPA rating is 210 miles, it used to be 208.
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Used to be 69.9k according to Wikipedia without supercharging enabled..
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The base 60 with No Pano, Black or White Paint Only, Slipstream Wheels, 10,000 Miles is listed for $66,000 - FedTax Credit $7,500 = $58,500 before Tax/Title....

not bad for someone that wants to get into a Tesla.
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Buckeye2320 said: ?

All S60 (CPO or New) are supercharging enabled. When it was the 40kWh battery and then changed to the 60 kWh battery is when they made the Supercharging part of the package. There were a lot of 40/60 owners that paid for the Supercharging, but that has not happened since 2014. All Tesla's come with Supercharging enabled. It is built into the price of the car, and not listed a an additional option. So technically you are paying for it.
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No so. 60s were originally charged $2000 to enable the supercharging hardware and software. That had nothing to do with 40s which were really 60s.
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plankeye said: ?

So does the pack have the extra cells already in it to enable 75KWh? And if so, are those cells always charging with the others? I would think they'd have to otherwise, they would eventually drain down and go bad. So does that make the charging take longer, even though you aren't getting the benefit from the extra time?
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On the contrary, you will probably see increase in charging speed vs regular 60 S.
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Karynt said: ?

Does this make the refreshed 70s (that have the option to upgrade to 75) more unique and perhaps more valuable? Thoughts?
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Not really, you guys have the same battery as the new 60 even. Just different 70D badging on back for now until you upgrade ;-). Both have a 75kWh battery.

Overall this including larger batteries than sold seems a little wasteful - definitely a unique practice.
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Vitold said: ?

On the contrary, you will probably see increase in charging speed vs regular 60 S.
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Oh, right, forgot about that. So this is interesting...When you charge at a SC to 80%, that would presumably be 80% of 75KWh, which just happens to be 60KWh. So does that mean that you now have essentially a full 100% charge of your "60KWh" battery?? If so, that's a pretty sweet little fringe benefit for the 60KWh MS buyer.
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travwill said: ?

Overall this including larger batteries than sold seems a little wasteful - definitely a unique practice.
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Probably a few things here
1) They must be figuring the take rate will be pretty high.
2) Once the gigafactory is in full swing, they should be able to dramatically cut the cost of production, thus making said upgrade to 75KW pure profit.

It's kinda like on-disc DLC for a video game. Yes, they had to pay development costs and it costs them some money to have it sitting there, but having it at your fingertips makes consumers that much more likely to just pay the extra to access it.
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Order your Tesla Model S | Tesla Motors

New software limited 60kwh design atarting at $66K
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Big surprise. It had never occurred to me that Tesla would go "backwards" in offered battery capacity. It will be very interesting to see how this affects sales. Will the lower entry point encourage more sales? or will the change really result in most sales being 75s, thus raising the average price a bit? Only time will tell...
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I'm selling my 60 in a couple of weeks when my X comes in. I don't know if this announcement is good news or bad news for me.
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CmdrThor said: ?

Or $65,000 with referral link.
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for me website show price 67,200
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Is it the 20700 cells that are going in the Model 3 or still the 18650?

The software limited battery capacity doesn't sound like a very intelligent plan up front as Tesla is still paying a $ per KWH on product that the customer is not paying for unless they enable it. Unless the margins are high enough selling 75KWH of capacity to a customer at the price of 60 KWH.

Maybe this is a test for the Model 3 to streamline production by putting the same hardware on all cars and options such as sound, performance, range, charging speed, supercharging, autopilot, etc. all being software limited options
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isn't this worst for 75D purchases?

If the 75D cost $70K before and now it costs $74,500 with the battery upgrade on the 60?

The funny thing is assuming it's the same battery, you can just set your 60kWh batter to 100% charge (knowing there's an extra 15kwh)
whereas 75kwh owners would normally set their car to 80% charge.

I'm sure I have a few things wrong here....
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I guess that its a good thing I do not work in marketing. This seems like a really stupid move to me.
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This is an absolutely brilliant strategy that Tesla is using... you have to consider this from a few perspective.

Potential to convert Model 3 desperate owner to Base Model S

Potential to convert other owners to an entry Model S today

All Lease return will now automatically becomes 75 kwh and autopilot activated increasing the resale value of used car.

Over the air purchase is more profitable.. as it is cash and not baked into a lease / finance.

These strategies are all in align with our consumer shops.. we shop online and like to lease stuffs..
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Doubt this would be feasible or how it would work and what cost would be, but would be cool if you could just pay a "rental" to be able to unlock the full capacity on as-needed basis. A 60 would fulfill 99% of my driving, but the few times a year for longer road trips would be nice to have the extra range and would be hard to justify the $8500 (or $9000 after delivery) upfront.
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maybe people will finally be able to order their 60D.
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pmich80 said: ?

isn't this worst for 75D purchases?

If the 75D cost $70K before and now it costs $74,500 with the battery upgrade on the 60?

The funny thing is assuming it's the same battery, you can just set your 60kWh batter to 100% charge (knowing there's an extra 15kwh)
whereas 75kwh owners would normally set their car to 80% charge.

I'm sure I have a few things wrong here....
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From a pricing perspective, this is how I see it too-- effectively a price hike on the 70/75 models. Initially, I was frustrated with this, but on further reflection seems like a good strategy to allow more people in at lower price of entry (60kwh) with optional upgrade later.
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gavine said: ?

I'm selling my 60 in a couple of weeks when my X comes in. I don't know if this announcement is good news or bad news for me.
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Pretty sure it is NOT good for current S60 owners looking to sell, unfortunately. A base NEW S60 will be $58,500 after factoring in the fed tax credit. And the new 60 offers waaaay more features than the classic S60s. Good for people looking to pick up a used classic 60, though.
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Doesn't it have the 75 battery . . . maybe not enough people were upgrading from 70 to 75. This makes a bigger difference.
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exLeaf said: ?

for me website show price 67,200
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I think you don't have the referral links.

66K base barebone S60. + $1.2K for document fees = your $67.2K

If you use referrals, you get $1K off the price. So effectively $66.2K.

On the note of the software limited S60/S60D.

I think it can be beneficial to some. Since it's limited, you can always charge to 100% your S60/S60D and not have to worry about battery degradation. On S75/75D, you have to charge to 80%-90% to reduce battery degradation. That equates to 60KWh or 67.5KWh. If you are those type of person that always charges to 80% of capacity, you can get the S60/60D and charge to 100% everytime without ever worrying about battery degradation.

Moreover, those CPO S60 from 2013/2014 are effectively worth less than $40K now IMO because of all the extras you get from buying a SW limited S60/S60D.
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pmich80 said: ?

isn't this worst for 75D purchases?

If the 75D cost $70K before and now it costs $74,500 with the battery upgrade on the 60?

The funny thing is assuming it's the same battery, you can just set your 60kWh batter to 100% charge (knowing there's an extra 15kwh)
whereas 75kwh owners would normally set their car to 80% charge.

I'm sure I have a few things wrong here....
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The 70 was 71,500 as of April. The 75 upgrade was $3000, so exactly the same price.
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ishop4more said: ?

Doesn't it have the 75 battery . . . maybe not enough people were upgrading from 70 to 75. This makes a bigger difference.
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Range Upgrade
Upgrade your Model S with a 75 kWh battery for maximum range. Available as an option on all 60 kWh battery equipped cars, this upgrade increases range by about 19%.
$8,500
Enable after delivery for $9,000
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Colsla said: ?

Used to be 69.9k according to Wikipedia without supercharging enabled..
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Just looked at my MVPA for my 2013 Model S 60...Base price was $57,400 + $10,000 for the 60kWh battery upgrade (from 40kWh)...so $67,400 with no other options (and another $1170 for delivery fee, final inspection etc.) PLUS, I paid another $2000 to enable supercharging and have no power folding mirrors, tech package, heated seats and other sensors. So this new S60 is really a great deal, and I'm happy that Tesla is actually reducing the cost for new customers AND giving them a better vehicle.
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sunilsf said: ?

From a pricing perspective, this is how I see it too-- effectively a price hike on the 70/75 models. Initially, I was frustrated with this, but on further reflection seems like a good strategy to allow more people in at lower price of entry (60kwh) with optional upgrade later.
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I agree because now i'm urgently trying to figure out a way to potentially skip waiting for my model 3 and get a model S. If only they could get the cost down to under $75,000 CDN for a base model, the car would qualify for a huge $14,000 tax rebate in Ontario.

I just tweeted Elon to see if he could get a car version priced under 75 here to be eligible. LOL
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ishop4more said: ?

Doesn't it have the 75 battery . . . maybe not enough people were upgrading from 70 to 75. This makes a bigger difference.
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It does. An after delivery option is available for 9K.
Crazy they put that huge battery in there that might never get paid for.
Would help resale since you can get a big mileage boost if you buy it used.
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This is a wonderful idea. It is an offer to those hundreds of thousands of people on the waiting list for model 3. This interation of the 60 will be a wonderful car at a very good discount. It will perform the same as a 75 for local travel and will work much better than the old 60 for supercharger travel. It will supercharge faster than the old 60, and utilize the bottom of the battery for supercharging, making it charge faster than the 75, for the same number of miles. This is a good deal for the buyer. It also expands model S's addressable market. Well done!
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How long do you thing it will be before we see a Tesla 60 "Jail Break" program that turns a 60 into a 75?
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Already being discussed at Announcement of new Model S June 9th
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No2DinosaurFuel said: ?

Moreover, those CPO S60 from 2013/2014 are effectively worth less than $40K now IMO because of all the extras you get from buying a SW limited S60/S60D.
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They may have to rethink their CPO pricing. Would you rather have this: 60 kWh Model S P12169 | Tesla Motors
or a new S60 for $4k more (after rebate)? You would not get leather, tech, and air suspension. But you get a brand new car with AP hardware + option to upgrade and option to upgrade battery. Not to mention all the over-time standard improvements that have been added.
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KJD said: ?

How long do you thing it will be before we see a Tesla 60 "Jail Break" program that turns a 60 into a 75?
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But then Tesla would just disable your SuperCharging capability and internet connection ability. Probably not worth it unless you got a hold of a savage which probably doesn't have supercharging capability anyways.
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exLeaf said: ?

for me website show price 67,200
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$66,000 is before the $1,200 destination and doc fee. To get the $1,000 off you have to use a referral link.
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With the increase in SuperCharger and the shorter distances between them becoming more normal a 60KWh version is much more viable then before.
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Buckeye2320 said: ?

The base 60 with No Pano, Black or White Paint Only, Slipstream Wheels, 10,000 Miles is listed for $66,000 - FedTax Credit $7,500 = $58,500 before Tax/Title....

not bad for someone that wants to get into a Tesla.
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Or just $52,500 after the Colorado tax credit! Referral credit can lower it another $1000 so with docs & delivery, effectively $52,700 after tax credits!
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exLeaf said: ?

for me website show price 67,200
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There's a $1,200 destination fee. For all Tesla's
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But still no 100D.
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thx1139 said: ?

With the increase in SuperCharger and the shorter distances between them becoming more normal a 60KWh version is much more viable then before.
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Agreed, also the 60 is now available in AWD.

I didn't even consider the 60 when it was first available (lower range, no supercharging, etc.), but if the 60D was available when I got the 70D I'd consider it vs. a 70D (20 miles for $4k), dunno.
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Boourns said: ?

They may have to rethink their CPO pricing. Would you rather have this: 60 kWh Model S P12169 | Tesla Motors
or a new S60 for $4k more (after rebate)? You would not get leather, tech, and air suspension. But you get a brand new car with AP hardware + option to upgrade and option to upgrade battery. Not to mention all the over-time standard improvements that have been added.
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I imagine there will be a significant hit on used 60kWh models both CPO and non-CPO.
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I noticed something else:
Autopilot has been renamed to: Autopilot Convenience Features.

That makes room for a new auto pilot in the near feature.
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Smokkelaar said: ?

I noticed something else:
Autopilot has been renamed to: Autopilot Convenience Features.

That makes room for a new auto pilot in the near feature.
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Or... it separates the included autopilot safety features from the paid autopilot convenience features.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there will be an AP 2.0 or autonomous, or whatever is next. But I don't think the verbiage is a clue.
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I think it's quite brilliant that they've re-introduced the MS 60, with all the new updated features.

It gets buyers in at a lower price point, and the range and autopilot is upgradeable post-purchase.

When the leased MS 60s come back, if they haven't been range increased, Tesla can sell them as CPO 75s. (or range upgradeable 60s -- whatever the needs of the sales are).

I think with this lower price/more features model 60, they'll be able to sell more cars.

Additionally, the new 60 is now cheaper than the price it was at when they phased it out for the 70/70D.
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Max* said: ?

70D was $75k
Now it's either 60D for $71k or 75D for $79.5k.

Seems like a price increase to me for those who needed the range of a 70/70D
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Not totally correct. 70D was $75k only for the pre-facelift model. After facelift, 70D starts at $76.5k
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pmich80 said: ?

isn't this worst for 75D purchases?

If the 75D cost $70K before and now it costs $74,500 with the battery upgrade on the 60?

The funny thing is assuming it's the same battery, you can just set your 60kWh batter to 100% charge (knowing there's an extra 15kwh)
whereas 75kwh owners would normally set their car to 80% charge.

I'm sure I have a few things wrong here....
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The after-facelift version of 70D used to cost $76500. Not $70000.
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I've had my refreshed S70D for three weeks today. I like that I may upgrade to the 75 in the future, should I find the desire and/or need. I think offering the 60 with the ability to upgrade to 75 is really smart, for all the reasons noted in previous posts - opens the market to additional buyers who really want an S but not at the higher price. I think they'll have a pretty good take-rate.
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Pardon if this has been answered before.

So the S60 model will have a 75KW battery software limited to 60KW.

My question is will the S60 (75KW) have the same charging curve characteristics as the 75KW but software capped at 80%?

So an advantage would be much quicker charging to "100%" at a super charger compared to a true 60KW battery?

Another advantage would be having a 20% battery degradation buffer built in?

Can some battery expert confirm?
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erebay said: ?

Pardon if this has been answered before.

So the S60 model will have a 75KW battery software limited to 60KW.

My question is will the S60 (75KW) have the same charging curve characteristics as the 75KW but software capped at 80%?

So an advantage would be much quicker charging to "100%" at a super charger compared to a true 60KW battery?

Another advantage would be having a 20% battery degradation buffer built in?

Can some battery expert confirm?
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I don't think anyone knows until some of the new 60 cars are delivered and someone do testing on it.
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I'm wondering what the experiences of the old model S40 owners with the bigger battery (60kw?) were? I believe those were software capped at 40kw.
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erebay said: ?

Pardon if this has been answered before.

So the S60 model will have a 75KW battery software limited to 60KW.

My question is will the S60 (75KW) have the same charging curve characteristics as the 75KW but software capped at 80%?

So an advantage would be much quicker charging to "100%" at a super charger compared to a true 60KW battery?

Another advantage would be having a 20% battery degradation buffer built in?

Can some battery expert confirm?
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Most of that would make sense, but we really won't know until a car shows up and gets tested. The degradation part will depend greatly on the programming. Unless Tesla specifically designs it to compensate for loss, it probably won't - but you should get the faster SpC charge, the safe 100%, and even regen near 100%.
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Saghost said: ?

Most of that would make sense, but we really won't know until a car shows up and gets tested. The degradation part will depend greatly on the programming. Unless Tesla specifically designs it to compensate for loss, it probably won't - but you should get the faster SpC charge, the safe 100%, and even regen near 100%.
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I figured so, and I agree.

It would be much more complicated to create new software to mimic artificial charging dynamics for a 60kw battery on a 75kw one.
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Saghost said: ?

Most of that would make sense, but we really won't know until a car shows up and gets tested. The degradation part will depend greatly on the programming. Unless Tesla specifically designs it to compensate for loss, it probably won't - but you should get the faster SpC charge, the safe 100%, and even regen near 100%.
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Yeah, need some testing here. Assuming Tesla will still recommend 90% charging since same software as rest of us, thus the 210 miles stated for the 60kWh new version (even with 75kWh battery) will just net 189 rated miles new/max typically at 90%.
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This is a good deal for anyone now in the market for an S. It's vital for Tesla to make delivery numbers to support the stock price.
Demand has softened for the S and the X. This is the response, along with the X off to China earlier than projected.
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I don't know if saving $5k to lose 10kw is such a good deal. How much extra is the 90kw compared to the 70? I thought much more than $500 per kw. We are making a decision as to whether to buy a model s or model 3. I am not too thrilled by this announcement.

I think tesla will recoup its money at resale, and do the OTA upgrade to 75, rebadge the vehicle and voila.
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xav- said: ?

We are making a decision as to whether to buy a model s or model 3. I am not too thrilled by this announcement.
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Why is that? Not great news for investors, but as a buyer, why is that a problem?
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X Yes? said: ?

This is a good deal for anyone now in the market for an S. It's vital for Tesla to make delivery numbers to support the stock price.
Demand has softened for the S and the X. This is the response, along with the X off to China earlier than projected.
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If anything, combined sales/demand have increased for the Model X and S. Just looking at the charts linked to below, average monthly sales for the first several months of 2016 is almost 1,000 vehicles higher than the equivalent period last year (combined for the Model X and S).

2016 January - May:
Monthly Plug-In Sales Scorecard

2015 January - December:
December 2015 Plug-In Electric Vehicle Sales Report Card
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Demand on the X has decreased from the initial 35k ordered, as buyers have postponed/canceled their orders. Sales have increased because they started at 0.

Demand on the S has softened. No company introduces a lower margin product when they are capacity constrained. This is all about keeping the production line rolling, until they release the 3
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I am delaying my Model S on order until AP 2.0. AP 1.0 is a gimmick.
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plankeye said: ?

So does the pack have the extra cells already in it to enable 75KWh? And if so, are those cells always charging with the others? I would think they'd have to otherwise, they would eventually drain down and go bad. So does that make the charging take longer, even though you aren't getting the benefit from the extra time?
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The extra battery capacity doesn't slow down charging. It just reduces degradation. It's a win/win if you have it.

You charge all the battery cells all the time, just to a lower percentage compared to max. You still put in the same amount of energy with no downside.
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dhanson865 said: ?

The extra battery capacity doesn't slow down charging. It just reduces degradation. It's a win/win if you have it.

You charge all the battery cells all the time, just to a lower percentage compared to max. You still put in the same amount of energy with no downside.
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Oh, I see. So the software will just limit how far the whole pack charges...interesting.
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Reeler said: ?

I am delaying my Model S on order until AP 2.0. AP 1.0 is a gimmick.
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That "gimmick" is one that Tesla drivers have used to drive millions of miles already, so they can arrive at their destination relaxed and not exhausted.
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newtman said: ?

That "gimmick" is one that Tesla drivers have used to drive millions of miles already, so they can arrive at their destination relaxed and not exhausted.
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When they have blindspot warning that actually works, autopark starts recognizing things regularly and the "truck lust" is fixed, I will agree that AP 1.0 is nothing more than a perpetual beta gimmick. Until then . . .
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erebay said: ?

Pardon if this has been answered before.

So the S60 model will have a 75KW battery software limited to 60KW.

My question is will the S60 (75KW) have the same charging curve characteristics as the 75KW but software capped at 80%?

So an advantage would be much quicker charging to "100%" at a super charger compared to a true 60KW battery?

Another advantage would be having a 20% battery degradation buffer built in?

Can some battery expert confirm?
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It should superhcarge as fast as a S75 even when software limited to a S60. Win / Win
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I doubt Model S sales are lower now with the refresh, just go to Delivery thread and you will see the VIN's are flying
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Very smart move.

As others noted it increased the price of 75D but does now offer a great entry price. I am now tempted to not wait for Model 3 and make it an all Tesla household.

Would anyone here endorse buying S60 (not D)? I am quite conflicted about that.
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zambono said: ?

I doubt Model S sales are lower now with the refresh, just go to Delivery thread and you will see the VIN's are flying
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True. However Tesla has ramped up the line to meet guidence. Possibly sales are not keepingup with potential production. Delivery times seem to be dropping and are now near the minimum practable for. Producing a special order car, which allmost all are.
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sukhi said: ?

Very smart move.

As others noted it increased the price of 75D but does now offer a great entry price. I am now tempted to not wait for Model 3 and make it an all Tesla household.

Would anyone here endorse buying S60 (not D)? I am quite conflicted about that.
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Remember also that the non-Ds have a bigger frunk.

The price of the 75D is exactly the same as it was yesterday -- 79,500.
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So the top speed is 130MPH for the new 60 model. Upgrading to the 75 doesn't show any top speed increase... I just took Delievery of the 75 before the 60 came out and my top speed is 140MPH. Just something I noticed. I don't ever plan on going that fast. My max is 70 or 75 to get max range.
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ishop4more said: ?

maybe not enough people were upgrading from 70 to 75
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Can't quite see why anyone would...
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Jason Shelton said: ?

I don't ever plan on going [140 mph]. My max is 70 or 75 to get max range.
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But that would be the only reason to keep below 140 mph
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I discounted the rumour when it first came up a couple of days ago. I must admit, I was wrong.
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X Yes? said: ?

Demand has softened for the S and the X
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Citation?
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Reeler said: ?

I am delaying my Model S on order until AP 2.0.
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In other words, indefinitely.
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dhanson865 said: ?

You still put in the same amount of energy with no downside.
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Well, there's the whole hauling around 25% extra battery weight thing
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Also agree this is smart move by Tesla--I would expect this might also siphon off some impatient Model 3 reservation holders that were looking at higher end configs.
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sukhi said: ?

Would anyone here endorse buying S60 (not D)?
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Well, there are always going to be people for whom the 60 price is right at the top of what they can afford, so
for them the D is kind of a non-starter. As to whether those who can afford the D should spring for it, I'll just say
that I'm certain there are people who could be perfectly happy with the non-D and do other fun things with the
money they'd save.
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mshuang said: ?

Remember also that the non-Ds have a bigger frunk.

The price of the 75D is exactly the same as it was yesterday -- 79,500.
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With the refresh front-end, I am pretty sure all frunks are the same size now, even with or without the bidodefense HEPA filter option. I'm sure it was to streamline production and part supply to have common parts.
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mshuang said: ?

Remember also that the non-Ds have a bigger frunk.
Trish
The price of the 75D is exactly the same as it was yesterday -- 79,500.
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Actually I was told by Tesla that all post refresh Frunks would be the same size - smaller than the past D Frunk to accommodate the HEPA filter that premium package cars have.
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Can't see why anyone wouldn't think this is a great move by Tesla. Lowers the price point to attract many more buyers (including myself) who otherwise wouldn't buy a Model S because of the cost. It's now just in the price zone that I would be comfortable spending. Now need to decide if I'll hold out for Model 3 or take the plunge on an S. I love the fact that if I find 210 miles of range isn't quite cutting it that I can later upgrade to greater range by unlocking the full capabilities of the battery pack.
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Zaphod said: ?

With the refresh front-end, I am pretty sure all frunks are the same size now, even with or without the bidodefense HEPA filter option. I'm sure it was to streamline production and part supply to have common parts.
Click to expand...

Apparently I can't type fast enough on my phone.
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RogerHScott said: ?

Citation?
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I'll try to explain (hopefully this does not get removed for snippiness)

Model S: The citation is: this announcement. No company launches a lower margin product (previously offered at a higher price) , when demand is strong enough to support current higher margin products.

Model X: The order book has been reduced/cancelled due to buyers waiting to see if problems can be fixed. So the Chinese now get theirs ahead of schedule.
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Karynt said: ?

Does this make the refreshed 70s (that have the option to upgrade to 75) more unique and perhaps more valuable? Thoughts?
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Tesla Model S & X platform have so many variants (especially Model S) that it's almost, but not quite, that each car is either unique or only has a handful of peers, as peered through the lenses of regional variety. Of course, if you do a factory insider list of all exactly the same models, I'm sure there's more correlations, but I'm just saying from a second-hand used market perspective, it will be hard to micro-specify exactly what you want and come up with a large list of identical cars; used Tesla buyers will have to search with search engines that allow "kind of like this" searches, rather than ultra-specific searches.
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Zaphod said: ?

With the refresh front-end, I am pretty sure all frunks are the same size now, even with or without the bidodefense HEPA filter option. I'm sure it was to streamline production and part supply to have common parts.
Click to expand...

This is correct. I have the refreshed 70D and didn't opt for the premium upgrade package. My frunk size is reduced to the same size as those with the package.
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RogerHScott said: ?

Well, there's the whole hauling around 25% extra battery weight thing
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Nope, you are hauling around the same weight as the 2012 Model S pack. The cells hold more energy for the same weight.

You could argue that Tesla could make a new pack that weighs less but they have not done so. That means the 25% extra weight argument is either a misconception or a strawman argument.

If they put a 90 or 100 kWh pack in it and software limited it to 60 then you'd be hauling around the extra weight. But the weight difference isn't just capacity1/capacity2. You have to check the weight of the pack in an actual car with all the cooling/bms/pack frame and you'll find the supporting pieces make the weight difference less than the capacity difference as a percentage.

Tesla only makes 2 pack sizes at a time for the Model S/X and thus the there are only two pack weights no matter what kWh they are labled as holding.

So 2012 60 kWh pack weighs about the same as 2016 75 kWh pack
and 2012 85 kWh pack weighs about the same as 2016 90 kWh or 100 kWh pack (whenever they decide to release it)
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Smart:

Lower entry - I admit I only test drove/bought when the 70 came to market and got me thinking - then chose the 85D

Convert 3 placeholders to owners - surprised there is no specific buyback option presented to placeholders

CPO gold: as mentioned by others, Tesla can take your 60 in trade and sell it as a 75 Autopilot(with lightly used battery) at no new cost to them

WTF?:

I can't get over the feeling that this is Tesla ransomware. What's the cost to Tesla of releasing the full capacity? Close to nothing, right? Maybe the battery retains a little more capacity for resale. I guess "market value" will be the justification for the $8500 ransom. Leaves a bad taste.

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X Yes? said: ?

I'll try to explain (hopefully this does not get removed for snippiness)

Model S: The citation is: this announcement. No company launches a lower margin product (previously offered at a higher price) , when demand is strong enough to support current higher margin products.

Model X: The order book has been reduced/cancelled due to buyers waiting to see if problems can be fixed. So the Chinese now get theirs ahead of schedule.
Click to expand...

Not snippy (at least, IMO), but not terribly convincing, either. I think you may be oversimplifying Tesla's motives here.
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There's no ransom going on here at all - you can either enjoy access to a fantastic car at a lower price point, or not.

kmtl said: ?

Smart:

Lower entry - I admit I only test drove/bought when the 70 came to market and got me thinking - then chose the 85D

Convert 3 placeholders to owners - surprised there is no specific buyback option presented to placeholders

CPO gold: as mentioned by others, Tesla can take your 60 in trade and sell it as a 75 Autopilot(with lightly used battery) at no new cost to them

WTF?:

I can't get over the feeling that this is Tesla ransomware. What's the cost to Tesla of releasing the full capacity? Close to nothing, right? Maybe the battery retains a little more capacity for resale. I guess "market value" will be the justification for the $8500 ransom. Leaves a bad taste.

Click to expand...

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travwill said: ?

Not really, you guys have the same battery as the new 60 even. Just different 70D badging on back for now until you upgrade ;-). Both have a 75kWh battery.

Overall this including larger batteries than sold seems a little wasteful - definitely a unique practice.
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However, whatever it seems, I don't think it is wasteful:

I'm not in possession of the numbers, but nonetheless, here's some numbers to consider:

Larger capacity batteries used for the same capacity allow more cushion.

That cushion may allow the battery to last longer.

That cushion is also useful in the group of people with less money to spend: their tighter margins may also confer tighter performance demands by those users, putting relatively more wear and tear on the battery, and essentially making more cushion built in a good thing for them.

Fewer battery sizes allows some streamlining and some savings due to streamlining.

The increased cushion can be used for value at the end of life of the battery pack, somehow. For instance, battery components have more life, or more quantity, or both. (Batteries get reused at end of vehicle pack life, e.g., in Tesla Energy.)

The ease of upgrade as your situation changes is valuable.

If all 6 points above assist Tesla and the marketplace in making available a lower cost product for those who need that, then this will help the consumers.

Thinking about that last point, it seems like Model S is streamlined enough in the factory that Tesla has an abundance of confidence in producing that car now. They're essentially daring buyers to increase the demand a little. But a lot of this just seems like right-sizing to me, since Tesla can, and it is better for everyone. I've always expected the possibility of continual adjustments in available battery options from Tesla, and will continue to expect it. I think this will just be normal.
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kmtl said: ?

I can't get over the feeling that this is Tesla ransomware. What's the cost to Tesla of releasing the full capacity? Close to nothing, right? Maybe the battery retains a little more capacity for resale. I guess "market value" will be the justification for the $8500 ransom. Leaves a bad taste.
Click to expand...

This is actually smart on Tesla's part. Some added revenue down the line, could support resale values, gives the customer a later option of more range. It will be interesting to see how long it takes some hacker to find the key to "unlocking" the range.
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kmtl said: ?

I can't get over the feeling that this is Tesla ransomware. What's the cost to Tesla of releasing the full capacity? Close to nothing, right? Maybe the battery retains a little more capacity for resale. I guess "market value" will be the justification for the $8500 ransom. Leaves a bad taste.
Click to expand...

When you download a free app with restricted functionality do you think of it as "ransom" when you have to pay to unlock the
remaining capability? This is 2016 -- the idea that only physical objects have value is obsolete. The value of a Tesla is a combination
of the physical unit, the programming, and their "licensing" of some subset of that to you. It's a free world -- no one's forcing you to
enter into that license.
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X Yes? said: ?

It will be interesting to see how long it takes some hacker to find the key to "unlocking" the range.
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As hinted at in an above comment, longer than it will take Tesla to totally shut down that car, turning it into an expensive, though lovely, lawn ornament.
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X Yes? said: ?

This is actually smart on Tesla's part. Some added revenue down the line, could support resale values, gives the customer a later option of more range. It will be interesting to see how long it takes some hacker to find the key to "unlocking" the range.
Click to expand...

I agree that it is smart...on balance, but to me the consideration of value is critical. I expect a more expensive product to have more content, not just be more capable.
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Thứ Tư, 4 tháng 1, 2017

Announcement of new Model S June 9th part 1

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