Aug 1, 2016
atr2016 I'm thinking of getting the Model S 60 with Autopilot and nothing else -- not even the nicer seats or sunroof.
The only reason I'm considering buying this car, is to ease the burden of a 130-mile commute (north San Diego County to Orange County) plus occasional road-trips up to 1,000 miles (i.e. San Diego to many major destinations like San Francisco, Lake Tahoe, Grand Canyon).
Anybody here who's done the same?
Are you happy with your barebones or near barebones base Model S?
Is there ONE feature that's so USEFUL you would not recommend anyone get a TMS without it?
I could afford more, but prefer not to, hence the hesitation. My personality is such, that every purchase must be justified with a really good excuse
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Aug 1, 2016
jelloslug I picked the pano roof more for the extra headroom. You may not need it though.�
Aug 1, 2016
evzach I am 6'2 and could not sit in the back seat without the sunroof, my head was nearly touching the glass.�
Aug 1, 2016
S'toon Don't let them bully you into getting a pano roof if you don't want one. It's your car, not theirs. I don't like sunroofs either.
I'd do the same, except add the winter package and dual motors, given our winters up here.�
Aug 1, 2016
twonius Depending on what you want to do on road trips the pano is required if you want roof rack anchors.
The black textile seats seem fine and are apparently pretty tough�
Aug 1, 2016
RogerHScott I'm not a 60 owner, so I can't speak to this directly, but it is my strong sense that most of what makes a Tesla awesome is built into
the base models. You're already covering the possibility that AP is a must-have option -- I'd certainly agree that driving a Tesla with
AP is a different, nee' superior experience to driving one without, but even without it still beats most cars on the road.
You might was to see if it is possible to arrange a test drive in a 60 that's not optioned to the max (as most vehicles for test drives are likely to be) and see what it really feels like.
Good luck. I think the new 60 sounds like a great deal and I hope lots of people get them and join the Tesla party.�
Aug 1, 2016
jelloslug I had a local SC find an optionless Model S for me to look at. It was more than "sufficient". I actually like the textile seats a lot and all Model Ses come standard with lots of "stuff".�
Aug 1, 2016
javawolfpack I considered this, except was going to do dual motors (better traction) & pano roof (so I could use a roof rack). The only reason I added more options was more personal vs functional reasons... I'm not regretting the choices but agree the base model Tesla still would be awesome!�
Aug 1, 2016
Model S M.D. If you were going to pick just one option, AP is the one to get! A base Tesla is still a fantastic car and allows you to start driving the future NOW
Good luck with your decision!�
Aug 1, 2016
javawolfpack Worth mentioning there is another recent thread with almost the same question: Critique My Strategy: Blindly Buying the Base Model�
Aug 1, 2016
PtG62901 It is interesting about what floats your boat isn't it? I have had a very successful life defining what makes me happy, and ignoring what other people say. The question is what will make you happy? A Model S is super rare and flashy. What can you afford and what will drive you crazy if you don't have it? For example, if I was commuting like you do, maybe the upgraded stereo system would make me very happy, because all my listening to music would be in the car? My father always wanted a sunroof, but didn't get one until he was in his 60's, maybe that is something you need? I think the base model is a fabulous car, it is quiet, fast, cheap to operate drives great and reliable. I certainly think that 21" rims and leather seats are vanity items. Pretty nice you can upgrade the range with a credit card too.�
Aug 1, 2016
Garlan Garner The reason I believe Tesla offers different versions/options on all of their cars is because they are selling them to more than one type of people. I have absolutely no issue at all with you loving the basic version. I however couldn't fathom spending over $60K for a car ....and not getting everything I want. I would rather go without the entire car itself. However that's just me.
What makes all of this so fantastic is that there are so many people able to get what they want.
Unity in diversity. I love it.�
Aug 1, 2016
PtG62901 All of us who buy a Tesla have a $1000 off referral code. You should find one and use it.�
Aug 1, 2016
javawolfpack Many of us even have it in our signatures, so super easy to find�
Aug 1, 2016
Buddy Signatures do not show up while using my IPhone to browse the site. Not sure if it's a setting but I don't see anyone's dig lines.
Here's my referral code for what it's worth.
Referral | Tesla�
Aug 1, 2016
mikeash The base model is still a great car. You definitely want Autopilot for that commute, but I can't think of any other must-haves.
The 60 might be a bit limiting for your road trips. However, you can try it out and see how it goes, and if it's too limited, you can pay to upgrade to 75 at that point.
I would also get the pano roof, but that's just my taste. You may not care about it. I think it really makes the car a lot nicer, but this is very much a personal thing.�
Aug 1, 2016
DrManhattan This is exactly what I got. No regrets. If I did it over again I MAY get pano roof or the D. But I'm fine with what I got. I thought autopilot was gimmicky but after using it - it's a must have.�
Aug 1, 2016
Snerruc S60 with no options here. No point in autopilot as no roads with limit over 55 and all but 5 mi of them 2 lane. Haven't turned the radio on in at least 2 years. Hate sunroofs. Performance of base version is superior to any other car I have owned. Base car is nicer than my last BMW or Mercedes.. Range will allow me to drive all the way around the island. There's always someone with something better than what you have, so enjoy your S60 and leaving some money in the bank!�
Aug 1, 2016
khalkhin I have a non-D 70. For me, it was definitely the right decision to skip most of the options. You're moving from a clamshell phone to an iPhone, and getting the 64GB model instead of the 16GB model is peanuts compared to the paradigm change you're about to experience.
In my opinion, the great thing about the S nowadays is that the important "options" - safety, supercharging, etc. - are included with the car. The other stuff is more gimmicky, and I feel like you really don't get much more functionality. I've had a loaner with a lot of options I skipped. I realized that I'm not going to use Launch Mode in my daily driving, and that the premium sound system sounds the same with road noise. Save the money and upgrade in a few years, or buy another Tesla for someone special.�
Aug 1, 2016
Ormond I can see buying a base model with AP. It makes sense. Usually I like lots of toys, unfortunately. I don't think that I am going to get a P90D, however. (I'd like too...)�
Aug 1, 2016
RogerHScott The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who think AP is gimmicky and those who've actually used it.�
Aug 1, 2016
STbreaker Agree that autopilot is one of the most important features of Tesla as a brand and is a must have.
I personally would not buy one without premium interior package, but I'm not going to say it's required for everyone.
I do think you need to spend some time in the seats. With a commute that long, you might want to spend extra money on more comfortable/supportive seats.�
Aug 1, 2016
RogerHScott Eh, you live in Kona. You could be driving a rusty Pinto and your life would still be perfect�
Aug 1, 2016
privater @khalkhin is right, switch from normal car to Model S is like switch from Nokia to iPhone, I do lose some convenience with battery life (range), but I gained more from functionality. Then the question is whether to have a 128G iphone instead of 16G? most of the time 16G is enough, and more reasons I choose S60 I explained here: Some exciting observations about the new Model S60 (software limited 75 kWh)
And trust @RogerHScott, Autopilot is essential on my purchase priority list and I use it 90% of the time.
Other than that I'd choose sunroof for better headroom, I have red color and premium package, I'd say the latter one is not essential. But I do love HEPA filter and power liftgate.
BTW, I just completed a 650 miles trip from bay area to Reno for gigafactory opening with my S60, everything is smooth except waiting in the supercharging station.
And Model 3 is a beauty:
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Aug 1, 2016
Ciaopec
I am 6'3" and the head room without pano roof is more than sufficient. In truth, I have not sat in the back yet; no one has yet successfully challenged me to give up the driver's seat.
�
Aug 1, 2016
Garlan Garner I would suggest P90D for you.....then you can look like your graphic - for real.�
Aug 1, 2016
javawolfpack Agree, really looks like a nice car... I know it's a prototype, but I'm still worried about if a roof rack will be possible on it :-/�
Aug 1, 2016
Garlan Garner I don't think you guys know what you are talking about when you talk about base models.
As its been seen before.....this constitutes a base M3. No batteries and no motor. Your $1k deposit pays for the whole car. This is the red M3 that they rolled out during the review. It now has drooping mirrors and everything.
Its the same car as privaters post above: Happy with base Model S 60 with no upgrades?
�
Aug 1, 2016
u00mem9 I'll weigh in, since I recently struggled with the same question. My recommendation is one of these 2:
1) Base model with autopilot only
2) Base model + next gen seats + premium interior.
The reason for the above, is that the textile seats are trimmed in vinyl, and the non-premium interior is trimmed in vinyl on the lower dash, top of doors, door armrests, and console armrests. Choosing premium interior, adds features but also changes the vinyl covered parts mentioned to leather.
If you only want the leather seats, then all that vinyl is a poor match to the nice seat material. Conversely, if you want one of the features in the premium interior, then the vinyl on the textile seats is a poor match for the nice armrests, etc.
The premium interior is a lot of value for the asking price. Price a few Porsche options on their website...I think you can get the HVAC vent louvers covered in leather for $1500
FYI, The base car has front seat heaters, so unless you will regularly have rear passengers or need a warm wheel, I think it's poor value even here in the snow belt.�
Aug 1, 2016
ApauloThirteen Thanks a lot for the pics of the M3. I like the top down hood shot - can finally see the shape of the front from that angle. V nice.�
Aug 1, 2016
eyespii 85D with no other options than autopilot. I wanted to get the car with the best range and didn't want to pay the extra $20k for the P. I origInally wanted the pano roof, next gen seats, and premium interior, but honestly after 1 year and 28k miles, I don't really care. Get the base model if it's what you want - it's still awesome! But you can't skip autopilot.�
Aug 1, 2016
Chopr147 Like most here, I agree. The base model is better than almost (all?) any other car in it's class and up. To me AP is a must have but like the Hawaii guy�
Aug 1, 2016
Garlan Garner One of the reasons I'm getting all options is not because I want them all, however it appears to me that a fully optioned car is very easy to sell.�
Aug 1, 2016
Ciaopec
So I am guessing no OTA battery upgrade�
Aug 1, 2016
Garlan Garner lol. it would be a little difficult.�
Aug 1, 2016
Chopr147 Needs to be foot rolled Flintstone's style�
Aug 1, 2016
RogerHScott Incoming!!!�
Aug 1, 2016
Boourns Others have it covered pretty well but I'll add that the base seats in my S look great even after 53k miles.�
Aug 1, 2016
Garlan Garner Incoming? What does that mean?�
Aug 1, 2016
doofenshmirtz concur in general..i have a cpo 2013 85 and realized after a few months that the 60 would have been more than sufficient. i would get the upgraded seats though, considering you're going to be spending a good chunk of your lifetime in them�
Aug 1, 2016
RogerHScott It is what you yell when you notice an artillery shell, or, in this case, a 90kWH battery pack, falling on you from the sky.
That's what "over the air" means, right?�
Aug 1, 2016
privater Agree on this, if you ordered leather chair, then premium interior will match the leather color you choose. otherwise, I don't know if they will provide color choice on premium interior with normal seats (black only?).
BTW, $1500 premium interior is not a standalone option right now, it's a combo with following add-ons:
It's like $1500 for premium interior like you mentioned before, and another $1500 for other stuff.
The HEPA is good in theory but hard to notice, power liftgate is very useful and led fog lights too.
Quick phone dock is gimmick though.
�
Aug 1, 2016
jelloslug FYI: you only get the leather trim with the Premium Interior Package if you order the next gen seats. I was going to order my car with PIP and textile seats but after I found out that you don't get the leather armrests and other trim I ended up getting the PIP and the next gen seats.�
Aug 1, 2016
Max* This is a bad reason.
1. I would get a car optioned the way I wanted it, not for resale value. You'll be using the car, why would you pay for more options just because you're worried about resale value?
2. If the only reason you're getting a fully loaded car is for resale purposes: you're losing a lot of money. Options get devalued very fast, so essentially you're spending a ton of money on options you don't want/need (today), to later sell it at a huge loss on those options (years later).�
Aug 1, 2016
AndreSF "Happy with base Model S 60 with no upgrades?"
Only you can answer this question... MS70 driver with only 2 options: nextgen seats and titanium color. No AP (tested for 30 days, did not care for it; off to put on my anti-flame suit�
Aug 1, 2016
RogerHScott Reacted "what the..." to the former, only to read the latter, then it all became clear.�
Aug 1, 2016
raysspl I'm very similar too, except I want the P90D with Ludicruous mode & nothing else (no sunroof, no 21" wheels). I do like me some lower CG.�
Aug 1, 2016
anticitizen13.7 One possible strategy is to initially buy the car with physical options only, and then decide later if the "unlocks" are needed. Stuff like the color and motor setup can't be easily changed later. (I acknowledge that wrapping and DYI hacking and installing new motors is possible -- but costly and possibly inconvenient) However, unlockable features are still an option in the future.
So for example:
Take the Model S 60 kWh RWD.
I would upgrade for:
Metallic paint (+1k), Black and white cars are tough to keep clean. Titanium or gray doesn't show road grime as easily.
glass roof (+1.5k), The glass roof is necessary for roof rack attachments.
sub-zero package (+1k). Seat heaters can help preserve energy in the winter.
That's 62k after federal tax incentives.
I have the option to later upgrade:
Battery to 75 kWh (+9k reflecting $500 premium over factory enable)
Autopilot (+3k reflecting $500 premium over factory)
High Amp charger (+1.9k reflecting $400 premium over factory)
That saves me 12.5k upfront, or about 17% of the cost of the car. Based on current use patterns, I don't need these options now or in the foreseeable future. If my situation changes, I can pay for the instant upgrades.�
Aug 1, 2016
Garlan Garner Oh...wait. I'm not worried about anything. Its all good.
I will probably use some of the options. I just noticed on the Tesla website itself that the M6's that are fully loaded ALWAYS go first.
I can afford all of the options. Its fine. I was just about to purchase a MX before the M? exposed itself. I'll just hold on to my M6 till the ? arrives.
I'm not going to change my mind on the resale piece. For whatever reason, people like to buy loaded vehicles. Don't ask me to explain it...they just do. I'm not trying to make sense of it - I just know it to be true. $ $30K for options isn't a ton of money. If I walk away from the M? purchase at $65K....That would be excellent. Again I was just about to purchase a MX that started at $76K.�
Aug 2, 2016
Max* Ah, yes, remind me not to argue with you in the future.
Anyways, whatever floats your boat. I'll repeat what I said, and I'm done with this topic. If you want to spend $30k on options that you want/need/will use - perfect, go for it, more power to you. If you want to spend $30k on options that will depreciate faster than the car does, and you'll never use them, and are only getting them to be able to sell your car for an additional $5-10k beyond base model many years down the road, then it's a silly reason. I know you don't care, but other people do read the forums.�
Aug 2, 2016
Garlan Garner Well there is no sense in arguing in the first place. I didn't call it arguing.
Since he is done with this thread...does anyone understand what he means by....other people do read these forums.?�
Aug 2, 2016
NuG I purchased a S60 with only the autopilot and pano sunroof. Standard seats were recommended to me because we have a toddler. Nextgen seats and air suspension were being considered but ultimately did not see the value of $2.5k for each.
I'm happy with the car so far and do not miss any of the available options we passed on.�
Aug 2, 2016
gavine Had a base S60 for 2 years (sunroof only option). Sold it (did very well by the way) and bought a mostly loaded X90D. While some of the upgraded options are nice, I haven't felt like "how did I survive without this", other than autopilot.�
Aug 2, 2016
Max* Not the thread, the topic. Topic = it's a good idea to buy a fully loaded M3 only due to resale value.
I didn't want someone uninformed coming to read your comment, thinking it's "the" way to do things; let people come to their own informed decision, reading comments from both sides (i.e. I think it's the wrong way to do it). That was the only thing I meant by that.�
Aug 2, 2016
Galve2000 For me the power liftgate is worth the $3000 price alone. and the interior does look a lot nicer with the premium interiors.�
Aug 2, 2016
RogerHScott Yes, he (obviously?) means that the point he is making is potentially relevant to people other than you, so even if you're not interested
in hearing it it is still worth making. Fwiw, I totally agree with @Max*. It is well-known that options depreciate faster that the base vehicle -- so well known that Tesla's buy-back guarantee program explicitly depreciates options faster than the vehicle itself. My recent experience is that the world of used car sales has changed fundamentally with the internet: there is now a buyer for every car; the only
variable is price.�
Aug 2, 2016
Garlan Garner Everyone here provides their opinions. Mine differs from yours....that's fine in my opinion.
I plan on buying a model Y with the possibility of selling or trading in my ?. It is a true fact that a pristinely fully loaded car will sell much faster than a base model. Just like a lease. My assumption is that if you are able to buy a car you are either an adult or you are rich. Neither of which I am terribly concerned about influencing. Again...its a truth. I'm not making it up.
What's the danger? People overspending for a car? People know their budgets.
We are adults.....do what you think is best. I find that this works best for me.�
Aug 2, 2016
Garlan Garner I agree, however depreciation is not a concern of mine. My only point is this: I want to get rid of my car FAST when I want to sell it. I don't even want to put a for sale sign on it. I want it gone. The economics of it is not important to me. I have done many people favors by providing what I know for them are fantastic deals on cars. I'm happy to do it and they are happy to receive it. I have never had anyone ask me about the depreciation of options when they are buying a car from me. For me depreciation is a paper/economic factor. Much like home equity is for the person who never sells their house.
The base Model S of 2012 vs the loaded Model S of 2012. There were 2 of each available on the Tesla website 2 weeks ago. Then last week a 3rd fully loaded came on board. All 3 loaded cars have been sold. The base models are still there. I'm not making that happen. When a fully loaded car is only $5K more ( Depreciated or not) than a base model......the loaded model will sell.
Now you might say that the loaded model cost 30K more when purchased...so the base model seller is making more money on the deal. I really don't care about that. I'm not looking to make money on a sale. I'm just trying to get rid of my car FAST.�
Aug 2, 2016
RogerHScott It is nonsense to say you care about speed of sale only and not price, since you can sell any car arbitrarily fast simply by lowering the price sufficiently. It is always a balance between the two. Also, if you're so concerned about ease/speed of selling, why not just trade it in? What could be faster or easier?�
Aug 2, 2016
Garlan Garner Ok...I see that's as far as we are going to get in this discussion. I'm not going to get into personal insults.�
Aug 2, 2016
Max* That just means the base models weren't priced appropriately, it doesn't prove your point.�
Aug 2, 2016
Max* Logic is useless here!�
Aug 2, 2016
Garlan Garner That's fine. I gave the perfect example of the cars moving off the Tesla site, but......I just say....that's fine.
Maybe its true that Tesla isn't pricing their base model cars appropriately. I'll go with that. ( and I'm not trying to be facetious )�
Aug 2, 2016
Garlan Garner I believe where we differ is economics. It seems to be an overwhelming factor in EVERYTHING now a days. There are those in this thread and the MX thread that don't care about losing money. For some people dropping a penny on the ground is nothing - because they have millions of other pennies at their disposal. So trying to sell something worth 10 pennies isn't worth the work. Just get rid of it.
The same holds true for nickels, dimes. quarters, and for others dollars and for others - hundreds of dollars.
I am very thankful that I am at the financial point in my life where I'm not trying to salvage the price/value of options in a car. Absolutely...I can drop the price of my car with full options down to a car with no options to sell it. However without the options as a bargaining chip...I would have no leverage. Lets say I lose money selling options when I sell the car ...... so what? Give me a person selling a base car and a person selling an optioned car. The person with the optioned car will set the price for the base model. If the optioned car drops its price to the base model price....then what is the base model seller going to be forced to do? I want the leverage is all I'm saying. I use options as a leverage to sell quickly. I could easily say....I'll drop my loaded optioned car to a base model price if I want to move the car. The base model car owner will just have to sit there and keep trying to sell. The problem is that loaded Teslas are lined up for sale - floating right above base level pricing. See....the options are depreciating, not the price of the cars. The base model Tesla isn't depreciating fast enough to compete with the depreciation of the options of a loaded model.
Base model MX - $79K
Loaded MX - $140K
1 year later ( year old MX - same car)
Base model MX - $60K
Loaded MX - $80K
You can see this plain as day on Ebay.
Which is going to sell first? The Loaded MX of course. The person with the base model may have spent their last dime trying to buy a base model MX and is more than likely going to have a difficult time selling it for what it's worth because of those faster depreciated loaded models. Sure the loaded model depreciated, but who cares? There is nothing you can do about it. The depreciation is like dropping a penny on the ground for many folks. Others? It may break their bank. I understand that. There are MANY MANY people in this forum who are willing to take the loss to get rid of the car. Affluent people can do that. The price of Tesla cars are comfortably residing in the affluent neighborhood of pricing. ( coming down with the M? of course ).
My point is this: If you are "struggling" to get a MS or MX understand what kind of people you are owning a car with. I told my son this very thing. Do what you want to do, but understand where you are going and who you are playing with. Affluent folks play a different game. Don't be scared, just be aware. They can sacrifice thousands where you can't sacrifice a dollar. Do what you want...just be aware.
BMW8 and AUDI8 neighborhood. ( people who drop hundreds on the ground without having to blink - figuratively of course ).�
Aug 2, 2016
Garlan Garner At first I was unclear as to how Tesla was able to convince so many "hundred-airs" to buy a $60K car - WITH NO MARKETING. They have no commercials or anything when a few years ago it hit me for real. Its EV.
The predominant class of people that is listed in all of my Solar Magazines and such ( I own a solar farm ) being environmentally conscious are "hundred-airs". Not that there is anything wrong with that at all. The confusion on my part was "Are they financially overextending themselves for the environment"? I suppose they might be.
Now I can fully understand why Affluent people do it with such ease - They can afford it.
I stood in line ( second in line) on 3/31 at the Chicago Tesla store and asked that question to everyone I could. There were some "hundred-airs" in line that owned base model S's. They all said that they were initially justified purchasing a Model S beyond their means using their "concern for the environment card" - which is why they were in line for the M?. They have to get rid of their MS and didn't want to buy a Chevy or Nissan EV. I asked them - so how is the selling going? They indicated to me that they couldn't sell their MS because they would have to sell it for less than what they owed on it.......(see above post) because the optioned cars are priced so low.
I have a close buddy in the same predicament.�
Aug 2, 2016
Max* I lied. I'm back.
No, we differ in logic. And understanding of supply and demand.
Completely wrong. Your leverage is price. You can drop the price of the no-option car and sell it FASTER than a fully optioned car.
But that goes back to your analogy of pennies, and you seem to talk-the-talk with regards to not caring about pennies, but based on the above comment, you don't walk-the-walk.
No, the market sets the price of the base base.
Again, no, market sets the price. If ONE person with a fully optioned cars drops their price it does NOTHING for the base model. If EVERY person with a fully option car is forced to drop their price (i.e. market), then EVERY person with a base model will be forced to drop their price.
For someone who doesn't care about pennies, you can just as easily trade the car into a dealership and not worry about leverage.
Also, price is leverage, not options.
Again, 100% wrong. The base model owner can drop their price too. Just like you did.
Supply and demand.
That's Tesla's CPO problem. That's not the market. Tesla is trying to get as much money as they can. Instead of looking at CPOs (for someone who doesn't care about pennies, you shouldn't be looking at CPO's in either case), you should be looking at the private sale market.
Isn't that what I said many many many posts above? So you agree with me. Great!
Again, not correct. Stop looking at the CPO site. That's not the market value of the Teslas. The base model depreciates at the same amount, options depreciate at the same amount (look at Tesla's old trade in value), if Tesla is trying to sell you a base model for more than the market dictates, it'll sit there and not sell.
Don't look at the LIST price on ebay. I can list a Model X for $250M, doesn't mean that's valid. Look at sale prices, you'll see that no one wants to buy a $60K Model X that's 1 year old, as that's an unrealistic price. If they drop it to be more realistic, then it'll sell. But the depreciation is still less. $140k-$70k = $80k in depreciation in 1 year. $79k - $49k (if I drop a Model X to $49k, it'd be gone in 3 seconds flat) = $30k depreciation 1 year.
You're proving my point for me!
That's a strawman argument, I will not go there.
We can agree here.�
Aug 2, 2016
Max* Also, to be clear (in case it's not), I'm not saying you shouldn't get a fully optioned car. Do whatever you want.
But the logic that a fully option car is faster to sell is false. And the logic that a fully optioned car depreciates less is false too. Paraphrasing your reply a few pages back "these are facts"�
Aug 2, 2016
Garlan Garner LOL - you are back.
Base model MX - $79K
Loaded MX - $140K
1 year later ( year old MX - same car)
Base model MX - $60K
Loaded MX - $80K
That's happening - Fact. You can't deny it. See CarMax and Ebay and the Tesla website.�
Aug 2, 2016
Max* See below.
Now to the rest of it...
I'm not sure what your point is... I made 2 statements, which one are you disagreeing with? Did you also miss my big reply in the post above?
Statement 1 - But the logic that a fully option car is faster to sell is false.
Reason - Supply and Demand. Just adjust the list price of the base car, and it'll sell in a heartbeat.
Statement 2 - And the logic that a fully optioned car depreciates less is false too.
Reason - Using your made up numbers, $140k-$79k = $61k in depreciation in 1 year. Are you telling me that a fully optioned car will depreciate LESS than a lower optioned car (i.e. base model $79k - $61k = $18k. seriously? Are you seriously arguing that a base model X would cost $18k or LESS?)
Show me links of sale prices, not list prices, and we can have a good discussion, also please clarify what we're discussing. Otherwise you're trying to argue supply and demand based on list price. That's now how economics works.
I explained the fallacy in your disagreeing with statement 2 below:
P.S. Putting fact after something doesn't make it so! Not fact.�
Aug 2, 2016
eyespii I side with Max here. The notion that a fully optioned car will be easier to sell than a base model car only holds true if you don't price the base model car appropriately. Drop the price enough on the base model, and it'll sell just as quickly. Case in point - I have a perfect condition base 85D. If I listed it at $35k, it'll sell before I hit the post button. If I listed it at $75k, the other 85Ds with more options will of course sell first.
There's an argument to be made however that people who buy luxury cars simply don't want an un-optioned base model. But I think the tesla buyer is a bit different, as there are enough of us that care about the techiness/environment/EV-ness of it over opulence to make even the base models a worthy purchase.�
Aug 2, 2016
Max* I agree that there is a smaller pool of people who want un-optioned luxury (general, maybe not Tesla) cars as compared to those who want optioned luxury cars.
If that's his argument, then I can agree with this. But with that being said, I can either underprice or overprice either category, and my "time" to sell will be impacted regardless of options.�
Aug 2, 2016
GoTzillaR Where do you see a 1 year old Model X for $80K or $60K??? There is no 2015 Model X.�
Aug 2, 2016
Garlan Garner The only way to stop this is what I've decided to do. I'll have to take the high road. Enjoy.
�
Aug 2, 2016
Max* Fact.�
Aug 2, 2016
dgpcolorado Regardless of what one thinks of it, if one lives in a place where AP would be utterly useless � as I do � it doesn't make much sense to pay extra for it. YMMV.�
Aug 2, 2016
STbreaker I suppose it depends on how often you take the car outside of where you live. If you do a lot of highway driving and road tripping, it's probably still worth it even if it's not so useful in your immediate area.�
Aug 2, 2016
twonius The nice thing is you can always get it later. It's a $500 penalty though so it'd be painful to not get it and then activate it after the first month.�
Aug 2, 2016
ArtC I really want a model 3, but my "itch" is getting stronger and my patience is getting weaker every day!
I'm thinking if I get a 60 with a couple of options(AP +??) and keep it until I can get the model 3, trade in the 60, it'll be about right. Not sure what the trade in value will be in 18 months. Anyone have an idea on trade in values? If it's more than the cost of the 3, do I get a refund?
Inquiring minds want to know.�
Aug 2, 2016
Model S M.D. I don't know much about the projected resale value, but I do know the S60 will be a combination of most of the cars in your signature:
Awesome acceleration (Corvette)
Efficiency (Prius)
Storage/Carrying capacity (Prius and SUV)
High tech/touchscreen/software updates (iPhone/Android in your pocket)
�
Aug 2, 2016
fsubrett48 One thing you can keep in mind is maybe getting the model S now. Keeping it for the 2nd generation of the Model 3 and then trading it in. From everything I've read and seen, the first generation S and X have had the most issues and as they have progressed so has the build quality.�
Aug 2, 2016
RogerHScott It is my belief that this will become an increasingly common refrain. After the real (i.e., not just to "friends and family") launch of the 3
is delayed a couple of times, and/or the initial shipping volume is a tiny trickle, the few voices will become a chorus. This is the basis of
my Used Ss Will Become Hot Commodities theory.
The new 60 deal seems really tempting. There's another thread going on right now about how satisfied someone is likely to be with a
base model 60 and the consensus seems to be (unless you're @dgpcolorado
every other option (depending, somewhat, on where you live). Personally, unless money is super tight I'd also spring for the next-gen
seats, which are really nice. But even without them you've still got a Tesla
What makes you so sure you'd want to swap your S for a 3 at that point? You just might become rather attached to it, though no one
on these boards could attest to that.�
Aug 2, 2016
JPUConn If I didn't already own one with some options I might consider less options for my first tesla but I'm spoiled now. The S60 was introduced right before I took delivery and I thought about losing my deposit and going with the 60 but passed.
For me the must haves:
- pano roof
- AWD
What I would kick myself for not ordering:
- next gen seats
- air suspension (love it on my car)
- cold weather (I live in CT)
- blue paint (if I'm ordering new that's my preference)
- auto lift gate - though this may be standard now?
Add it all up and it was easy to keep my CPO S85 under $50k vs spending close to $80k on a new car before incentive.�
Aug 2, 2016
Boourns This is so true. My S was supposed to be my waiting for a 3 car, but honestly aside from AP temping me I want to keep my S. It's a large car, but it does not drive like one and the storage/cargo capacity is phenomenal.�
Aug 2, 2016
Krypto Kat I hope your'e wrong..
I hope your'e right.�
Aug 2, 2016
ArtC That's what I'm afraid of
I'm used to a smaller car(Prius) and my garage is rather small(ish). I guess I'll have to take a couple more test drives to see.�
Aug 2, 2016
heysteveh I have read many posts on this board by people who think the opposite, i.e. that the used S's resale value will plummet. The reason I have seen most often given to back this up is that the Model 3 will begin to siphon off potential pre-owned Model S buyers. Sure, there might be some of this going on, but this line of thinking misses the bigger picture. We have already seen the beginning of this bigger picture after all the Model 3 reservations. What has happened? Many of these Model 3 reservation holders have already purchased CPO's and in some cases NEW Model S's. The introduction of the Model 3 has brought Tesla onto the radar for hundreds of thousands of Model 3 reservation holders, with more to come! This is a HUGE pool of people, many of whom will end up sooner or later in Model S CPO's or new S's. Sure, some potential S CPO buyers will buy a Model 3 instead, but some potential Model 3 buyers will buy S's instead (both CPO and New). The key to my theory that the resale for the older S's will not plummet lies in the FACT that the overall pool of potential buyers has increased exponentially BECAUSE of the Model 3. If the resale value of the older Model S's plummets, my guess is it will be due to potential buyers shying away due to expensive repair costs for all the high tech & luxury items on the cars as they age and are no longer under warranty.�
Aug 3, 2016
fallen888 I was in exactly the same boat. I gave in and ordered a S60 with blue paint and pano roof as the only add-ons. I'm sure I'll enable the AP in the future as well, but wanted to keep my monthly payments super low for now.
I hope the vinyl will last for a long time. That's the only concern.�
Aug 3, 2016
Chopr147 "Many of these Model 3 reservation holders have already purchased CPO's and in some cases NEW Model S's."
That is me right there. My itch became impossible to ignore so I ordered the S60D
As far as my reservation goes: I will take a wait and see attitude. I now will not be in a rush for the 3 and most likely will delay ordering until my wife's Lexus lease is up in late 2018. I am going from a large car ,Yukon XL and need the space so the S fills the bill
The only option I may miss is the power liftgate but $3000 is a bit much. As it is this was somewhat of an expensive impulse buy because I could have lived with the Yukon for another 2 years. I know I will have NO regrets once that beautiful car is delivered!�
Aug 3, 2016
Garlan Garner Let me ask a question;
If the M3 was available today: Would you buy a base MS or a loaded M3? Pretty much same price.�
Aug 3, 2016
Chopr147 Hmmm.......simple question not an easy answer. It's just not in my DNA to get a base w/o some options. I like what I like
But, for an answer : I guess I would have to say a loaded Model 3.�
Aug 3, 2016
TSLATed I just took delivery of a new base S60 with only two options: Red color & Autopilot. Very happy with my decision for the following reasons:
- Plenty of Superchargers all over the state of Florida (where I live) making long distance travel >210 miles hassle-free
- No need for Cold Weather package needed in Florida.
- I practically never used the sunroof in my Infiniti G37, so I didn't feel that I'd miss not having one in the Tesla.
- My car is for commuting, so no need for the 21" wheels / tires since I'm mostly interested in long tred life.
- The $1000 referral discount works out to be a greater discount (in terms of percentage) when applied against the lower-cost S60 vs. a high-end model or configuration
- I was able to see a used 2013 S60 with base seats and >60k miles prior to ordering. The seats still looked perfect / like new. With two kids, I didn't see the need to upgrade to leather, only to have destroyed by the little ones.
- The base sound system sounds great to my ears.
- Acceleration is fantastic in S60. I previously owned a 2013 Infiniti G37 Coupe and the new S60 "feels" significantly faster, even though it's technically about the same.
- Interior materials (dash / headliner / door panels / steering wheel / etc) all seem very high-end, even in the base model
- No matter which Tesla you purchase, you become an instant celebrity. Practically every day I have random people coming up to me asking questions, looking in amazement, and wanting to just chat about Tesla. It's actually pretty fun!
�
Aug 3, 2016
javawolfpack For me this would depend on factors such as storage... the M3 is an unknown and if it can't support a roof rack or other way to carry bikes then it's a no-go for me. Especially as I'm a 1 vehicle kind of person... Now if it supports a rack then a fully loaded M3 w/ a longer range, faster 0-60 time, etc would definitely be preferred.�
Aug 3, 2016
Mattzilla How did you get all black inside without getting the premium package required for the black headliner?�
Aug 3, 2016
Max* They changed that a couple months ago, it's now a standard option.�
Aug 3, 2016
Mattzilla What!? That's awesome.�
Aug 3, 2016
dgpcolorado Yes, that's an important consideration. I am hoping that a tow hitch will be an option. That, in turn, would allow the use of a hitch mount bike rack. Perhaps too much to hope for, but we will see...�
Aug 3, 2016
RogerHScott The only reason we would ever user our Outback for trip travel would be because (only) it can hold the 4-bike carrier we use. I'm not
holding my breath that the MS will ever be able to take 4 bikes on the back.�
Aug 3, 2016
javawolfpack I might be able to get 4 bikes on the roof... I only have two bike racks on my current rack. But they'd have to be lighter weight bikes to be in the weight allowance... plus would add significant drag :-/�
Aug 3, 2016
fallen888 You can design it that way now - I did it on July 23rd.
�
Aug 3, 2016
hapadakara I got a base 60 with no options. Totally loving it.�
Aug 3, 2016
twonius I was really thinking hard about the premium pack. Even the sales person didn't try very hard to sell me on it.
I did get next gen seats but for $3k I'll lift my own tailgate and have a bit less leather and LEDs inside. A weekend with my friend's lexus really turned me off the concept of a power liftgate anyway.
Also I'm hoping I can retrofit a full-size frunk from an old S since I don't have dual motors or the HEPA filter. Maybe once the warranty expires.�
Aug 3, 2016
TaoJones That last part is of significant interest. One of my hesitations to "upgrade" is the loss of my full sized frunk with microwave and excellent microwave bag.
Today's Model S frunk is not a frunk. It is a microfrunk. Can't even fit a set of golf clubs therein. Not even for a miniature golf course - think about that for a moment.
I don't need AWD. In the end, I'll probably get both AWD and BDM/HEPA solely because if I'm going to lose the space anyway I might as well maximize the loss. Plus I live in Los Angeles County which entails air quality so poor as to equate with a half-pack of cigarettes a day.
In the end... Harrumph.�
Aug 3, 2016
twonius Yeah I think my ideal car would've been one of the 375 Unicorns (P85 with AP) but the last time I saw one up for sale it was about 15k more than what I'm paying for a new car.
The S still has tons of cargo volume even without the frunk. With the big frunk it's just unprecedentedly large. Short of a full size suv I can't think of anything that hauls as much as a classic S (and I used to drive a volvo 240). We had 4 people skiing for a week with one and still had room to stop in Germany and buy cases of cheap booze.�
Aug 4, 2016
??ELECTROMAN?? Is the frunk the same size on the two wheel drive as the AWD? I thought by not getting the front motor that my frunk would be the same size as the classic S frunk. What the frunk?�
Aug 4, 2016
Zaphod With the redesigned front, they are now the same between D and non-D. Making common parts makes best sense from a manufacturing view.�
Aug 4, 2016
twonius If it's still possible it looks like a pretty straightforward job.
The only problem i see is whether the new hood is compatible with an old frunk seal. Also they may have relocated some components into the space of the old frunk.
�
Aug 4, 2016
??ELECTROMAN?? Damn that sucks. I guess I should have looked under the hood. "Making common parts makes best sense from a manufacturing view." Yeah but there is already a bunch of different parts. Why make us lose a bunch of usable cargo space? Sorry I'm off topic again. I'm a newb.�
Aug 8, 2016
twonius Just picked up the car Saturday and drove from Berkeley down to San Diego. We took Route 1 through Big Sur, but i'd recommend topping up in Monterrey. We did a short one there and it would've been a bit less stressful if we'd just sat there for an extra 10 minutes. New car + Twisty road = inefficient driving. We still made it to the next stop with about 8% but I had to sweat it a bit.
No regrets on battery size though. What i realized is that assuming sufficient supercharger density, after your first stop you're basically limited by the charging speed, not battery capacity, and the extra 45 or so miles the 75 gets usually won't get you to another supercharger.
Of course there's going to be some tipping point here but I don't think we would've saved much time with a 90, we might've been able to skip one short top up to make it to Gilroy but if I'd been able to charge overnight I could've skipped that one as well.�
Aug 8, 2016
RogerHScott Fine, fine, that's all well and good but you left out the most important part: was it awesome? Are you now irredeemably in love?�
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