teslamotorclub: A sad tale of how not to sell cars (???)... part 1

So the wife gets a new job, decides with the bonus, she'll buy a new car. Her brother just bought a Panamera, and she has decided that is the car.

On the way to the Porsche dealer, I talk her into stopping by Tesla - being very aware of the car, I think in the $90K range, it would fit perfectly - she doesn't want to stop, she's sure about the Panamera. I get her to stop by Tesla. We meet a nice guy who gives us a tour around the car - the more she hears, the more she's clearly liking it. I explain we are getting a Panamera - but really like this Tesla. He gets coworker to give us a quick drive as passengers around Fashion Island. Very nice knowledgeable guy who explains everything you would want to know about the thing. After the 5 minute ride, she now REALLY likes the car. We thank him, and head out to Porsche.

At Porsche, we get a great tour of it's features etc - then she drives it. Afterwards, she says she didn't like the feel/drive-but liked the Tesla.

Next day, we go to CARMAX - just because they had 3 Panameras on the lot - and it would give her another shot at the Panamera (which I was pulling for). Drove it a few miles, and again said she didn't like the ride.

Now for the "how not to sell cars" part.

We have 1.5 hours to kill - so I call Tesla to figure out the logistics. The girl who answers starts talking about the car, I quickly explain our experience the day before, and with the Porsche - she says come on down. I tell her we need to schedule a test drive (which we were told before could be done) - she cuts me off and says 'woe' - you can't drive the car. My wife says "what????" listening in on our conversation... She goes on to say we can put down $5K, then maybe in 2 months we will get a call to schedule a drive when we formally order the car. She goes on to say that there are too many people who want to drive the car that have already put down deposits (???)... Wife goes "that's crazy" - I was ready to put down any amount, and order the car - lets go to Lexus.

So off to Lexus we go - she sees a ES300 hybrid, looks at it, gets a quick test drive - coming from the Porsche, this thing rides amazing, it's quiet, it's comfortable - it's green (40MPG) - she really likes it.

So we go from $88K Porsche, to $88K Tesla, to $48K Lexus. We were going to buy something this weekend - she would have waited the 6 months for a 80kW Tesla - but now that's out, and now I'm trying to talk her into an XJ Jag...

Bottom line, I know there's a line of people wanting to drive who have put down deposits. She would have only needed 5 minutes in the car to verify what we saw as passengers - it was a slam dunk - Tesla shareholders need these slam dunks - not deposit holder drives. 5 minutes for $90K seems like a no brainer in the big scheme of things... The other intangible - my wife works in a VERY high net worth world - there's no telling how many more Tesla's could have been sold...
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Here is what George Blankenship (VP Of Sales and Ownership) had to say on this issue:

Tesla Store Experience - Page 3

GeorgeB said: ?

Hi everyone,

As for test drives, this is a damned if you do, damned if you don't issue. I'm glad the message given was correct...that we are currently doing test drives for "reservation holders only." This in and of itself is often seen as being snobby. I hear about it all the time. At the same time, I also get messages from reservation holders saying it's not fair that anyone without a reservation can get a test drive before they do. This is a very fine line to walk, but we are trying our best to do so everyday. We have a limited number of test drive cars. Some stores do not even have one. The test drive cars we do have are used almost exclusively for reservation holder test drives. We backfill empty slots, when we have them, with people who have just made a reservation or who are ready to make a reservation and the only thing standing in their way is a test drive. It is a very fine line to walk, but one we walk everyday. Absolutely no excuse for being snobby, but this is often times seen that way.
GeorgeB
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Sadly, it is Tesla policy not to give test drives to individuals who do not have deposits on the car.
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This is an unfortunate tale. I hope GeorgeB gets to read it. It's a tricky business dealing in cars at this level. Ferrari dealerships have been dealing with this for years. A young rock star or dot-com genius walks in without an appointment, and to a salesman he/she looks like a dreamer, not a buyer. It's a little trickier with Ferraris because dealers generally don't have demonstrator cars. They have to use actual inventory for test drives.

Tesla has been using the $5K deposit as a measure of how likely you are to be a buyer. Given that the deposit is 100% refundable, Tesla must feel that it's not asking too much.

Perhaps Tesla could simply require that a test drive is set up in advance. Showing up for the test drive at the appointed time might show enough due diligence to weed out the dreamers.
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I don't see how they can't do both. Catch up on test drives for res holders (I would think this was already done), then entertain test drives from new folks. Perhaps this situation is a specific state where Tesla can't act as a dealer.

In any case, it's a sad story.
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If they had time to give a ride, why not time to get a drive? With more cars out there now, I figured this would be changing. It's unfortunate since it comes across a bit snobbish and like a hard sales pitch.
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AnOutsider said: ?

If they had time to give a ride, why not time to get a drive? With more cars out there now, I figured this would be changing. It's unfortunate since it comes across a bit snobbish and like a hard sales pitch.
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Indeed.

I thought I had heard they started giving test drives to prospective reservation holders last month or earlier? Of course I'm Tesla's home territory, but Orange County shouldn't be that far behind. Anyway, could definitely had been handled better, even a gentle "would you mind putting down a deposit before the drive?" could have given this story a different ending. (Well, it doesn't sound like it has an end... yet..?)
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I don't think the 5k was the hurdle here... The problem is that they were told they could have a test drive in a couple months!

Trnsl8r said: ?

Indeed.

I thought I had heard they started giving test drives to prospective reservation holders last month or earlier? Of course I'm Tesla's home territory, but Orange County shouldn't be that far behind. Anyway, could definitely had been handled better, even a gentle "would you mind putting down a deposit before the drive?" could have given this story a different ending. (Well, it doesn't sound like it has an end... yet..?)
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She goes on to say we can put down $5K, then maybe in 2 months we will get a call to schedule a drive when we formally order the car......
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They should set aside most of the times just for reservation holders but leave a few slots open for people with genuine interest in Tesla.
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I agree it would, and will be nice when Tesla can offer test drives to anyone.
However, I also don't want people deciding to buy a Tesla, or any other BEV in an afternoon. I want everyone considering a Tesla to be well educated about the differences with an EV and to have considered it carefully.
I would hate for anyone to spontaneously decide to buy a Model S and then get buyers remorse because it didn't meet their expectations.
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I say put down the $5k and schedule an appointment immediately to test drive the car. I know she said two months or whatever, but that's not reality. They should allow you to test drive the car the instant you become a reservationist. I understand it's odd and inconvenient and not the way other dealerships work, but that's what the entire ownership experience will be anyway, so you should get used to that. If buying new technology from a start up car company trying to change the world doesn't make you want to go through a couple extra hoops, then perhaps this isn't the right car for you.

I do think/hope that in a number of years (Gen III?) the purchasing/owning experience will be more typical, but right now it is anything but.
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George (or whomever is responsible for this decision) is wrong on this one. That's just foolish, unless the demo cars are being driven all day long. I doubt they are. If they are, and sales are being lost because of this policy, then produce a few more demo cars and put them in stores. Really. What Tesla's doing is just completely foolish.

EVERYONE with a reservation has had the opportunity to test drive. If they haven't been able to yet, that's not Tesla's problem, and they shouldn't be sacrificing sales because of it. (REALLY?!??!? That's ridiculous.)

I'm sure everyone with a reservation wants Tesla to survive as a company, so they can be around in a few years to service the car. I just don't see the "damned if you do" part.

At the very least, Tesla should've taken your information down and scheduled you at the first available slot where the car would be sitting idle.
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+1 Just what Todd said!
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There has to be a way to limit those who want to test drive for the fun of it and have no real interest in buying. Can you imagine how many folks would line up for a test drive even if the could never afford one? I agree that once a reservation is made, a test drive should be available quickly (within a week).
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dsm363 said: ?

They should set aside most of the times just for reservation holders but leave a few slots open for people with genuine interest in Tesla.
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+1 Absolutely.

I see this as a major issue as they ramp up production and need to find lots of new buyers not only this year but 20,000 more each and every year thereafter. After the initial surge of knowledgeable Tesla fans are served this first year or so most people in the general population will probably not to be willing to put down $5,000 to simply get a test drive. I thinking about somebody like my father who just bought a Porsche 911. To a traditional car buyer like him it would feel like being asked to buy a TV before you've even seen the picture (while being reassured that it's a risk free venture because the price is fully refundable). While it might indeed be risk free it is also a hassle and it will feel like a big commitment for someone simply trying to assess the vehicle.

I think the current system will no longer work when the backlog is taken care of and the time from order to delivery is 2-3 months because the "refundable period" for the reservation could be very short. Basically, you will be given the chance to lock in a configuration very quickly after placing the reservation if there are not thousands of cars ahead of you in the queue.
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Well, to keep things in perspective, that quote from GeorgeB is a few months old. Still, I find it perplexing that test drive scheduling remains so restrictive. That's got to change, and the sooner, the better.

Hey, here's an idea (all considerations of insurance and liability aside): current S owners could volunteer their time and their cars to give occasional test drives to 'qualified' prospective buyers referred by the local store. It wouldn't be for everyone and you'd have to be able to say yea or nay for any reason when the store called to see if you could do one, but some number of folks surely have the time and the inclination to help preserve their investment by providing this service. Yeah, it's probably unworkable for a whole host of reasons, but we're used to thinking outside the box: we're Tesla owners. :wink:
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stevezzzz said: ?

Hey, here's an idea (all considerations of insurance and liability aside): current S owners could volunteer their time and their cars to give occasional test drives to 'qualified' prospective buyers referred by the local store.
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(Todd's hand goes up). Pick me! I'll do it for a nominal commission!
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Todd Burch said: ?

George (or whomever is responsible for this decision) is wrong on this one. That's just foolish, unless the demo cars are being driven all day long. I doubt they are. If they are, and sales are being lost because of this policy, then produce a few more demo cars and put them in stores. Really. What Tesla's doing is just completely foolish.

EVERYONE with a reservation has had the opportunity to test drive. If they haven't been able to yet, that's not Tesla's problem, and they shouldn't be sacrificing sales because of it. (REALLY?!??!? That's ridiculous.)

I'm sure everyone with a reservation wants Tesla to survive as a company, so they can be around in a few years to service the car. I just don't see the "damned if you do" part.

At the very least, Tesla should've taken your information down and scheduled you at the first available slot where the car would be sitting idle.
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According to GeorgeB's post, test drives are given to people who are ready to put down a deposit but "the only thing standing in their way is a test drive." It seems as if the employee who denied cardriver and his wife a test drive misspoke? I have experienced a similar type of snobbery as well at some stores. It seems as if at times Tesla retail store employees feel as if they are doing you a favor by allowing you to purchase a vehicle. I bet this is regional, Southern California stores get a lot of foot traffic and it is hard for employees to determine who is for real and who are just lookers. Regardless, this is very un-Apple store like.
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A few data points on this topic-

I have an S reservation (X too, but I doubt they look at that.) I emailed the DC store on Friday and asked if I could come at noon on Saturday for a test drive. I received a reply within an hour confirming the time. Both my wife and I were able to drive the car. The Tesla rep/store manager (Julie) was great. She ended up spending 90 minutes with us. There were several other sets of people in and out during the 90 minutes I was there, and I saw at least 3 other test drives. Julie mentioned that during the week they are far less busy.

It might be a bad comparison - Cali to DC. But from what I saw over the weekend, it shouldn't take "2 months" to get a test drive.

A
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i'd let someone drive mine if they were serious about buying one. she's amazing
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At least at the Park Meadows Mall Tesla Store (south of Denver), they are pretty flexible about letting people who seem to have a genuine interest in a Tesla have a test drive before they put down a deposit. That was what I was able to do with no problem whatsoever about six weeks ago. After the test drive, I immediately forked over $5K and made a reservation. Reservation holders get priority (as they should), but it is usually possible to get a test drive without one, although you might have to wait a little bit.

I would say that most people who are seriously looking at a Tesla (and can actually afford one) can probably come up with the $5K to make a reservation. You can always just cancel the reservation and get the deposit back if you really don't like it after the reservation.

Long-term, with Gen III, Tesla will probably need to modify this policy and/or have more demo vehicles available to avoid this issue as they try to go more mainstream. They also will need to improve the delivery and communication process compared to where it is now.
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Todd Burch is absolutely right. I highly doubt the demo cars are solidly booked for test drives every single day for the next two months.
The problem is not so much George's policy, but the attitude of the sales rep who was restrictive rather than accommodating. If she said "please put down a refundable deposit and I'll book you into the next available spot or tell you when there's any idle time and we can squeeze you in" that would have been much less off-putting.

I have a co-worker who was able to commit to a reservation after a test drive. That's what a test drive is for!
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c&d,

If the Tesla store won't allow your wife to test drive, send me a PM. I'd be happy to give you and your wife test drives in mine.
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This definitely seems to be more of an issue with some of the sales people than others, and I definitely think there needs to be a memo on this. The answer should be to schedule a test drive at an open time (weekends are busy and probably should be reserved for holders). I think at this stage expecting people to reserve before test driving no longer makes sense, and everybody who did has already had a chance to test drive. It's probably fine to schedule the test drive a little further out for non-reservation holders (I mean like a week out), that should test their interest. I actually had no problem test driving a car back at the beginning of October when cars first became available without a reservation. The car was free and they said to go ahead.
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So it seems not to be the policy companywide, but perhaps there are a few uppity sales folks out there. They need to go.

To the OP, it's a shame you passed on the car because of a bad apple. It really is a marvel to drive!
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I put my deposit down in July 2012 and got my notice to order in mid-December, right before a trip home to Orange County for Christmas. I'm mostly in Dallas where there isn't a store location. I walked into the same Fashion Island store you visited on a Saturday morning right before Christmas and probably spoke to the same young woman who you spoke to. I did tell her that I had a deposit, and before I could even ask for a test drive (I hadn't driven one yet), she offered a slot just 20 minutes later. Very friendly and accommodating, though I didn't know you had to have a deposit down to schedule a test drive with little notice. I likely would've finalized my order whether I could drive it or not, but the test drive made it a no-brainer. The driving experience really is spectacular.

I'm 34 and have owned 29 cars, so I'm an exceptionally good client to a handful of local salespeople that I like to do business with. All of my friends come to me for car advice, and I refer out dozens of deals a year to these contacts. I have bought at least half of those cars on a whim with little notice. Being told that I'd have to come back a day, week, or month later would've resulted in no sale in almost every case. I sell residential real estate, and if someone calls or emails asking to see one of my listings, you better believe they can see it...and I'm not going to tell you next week or next month! You and your wife are in this boat, especially if you also have the patience to wait for an ordered car to come in. Now that the Model S's are more common on the road, Tesla really needs to allocate some extra cars and hire some additional product reps to be available to qualified, serious buyers who want to drive the car and potentially order one. It's how the car business works, and why walk-ins represent a huge portion of every car salesperson's business. It's just a SMART BUSINESS PRACTICE to make vehicles available to test drive when someone is considering spending $60K-110K. Asking them to put up $5000 first (refundable or not) before being able to make a test drive reservation is short-sighted and will cost the company business. We all want to see Tesla succeed in a huge way, so this is very frustrating.

On a side note, I recently had my 911 in for service and got a new, fully-loaded Panamera S Hybrid as a loaner car. I thought it felt bloated, the ride quality was marginal, interior was busy, and the sticker price on it was absolutely outrageous. This is in addition to it just being plain ugly. You can do better, especially at that price point. If you pass on the Tesla, consider a M-B CLS550. I'm giving one up for the Tesla and it's the all-around best vehicle I have EVER owned.
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A hypothetical conversation:

Customer: This car looks great. How much?
Tesla: Well, there's a variety of options. There are 3 different battery sizes...
Customer: Ok, let's cut to the chase. How much for fully loaded?
Tesla: $___,___.
(Customer looks up at the walls.)
Customer: Ok, I'll take the blue. Where do I sign?
Tesla: We can't offer you a car today. We have a reservation list, it's a $5k deposit and will be approximately ___ months before we can have that configuration ready for you to take delivery.
Customer: I have to wait? Lame. Can I pay extra to get it today, or this week?
Tesla: The short answer is no; we're not set up for that in our current business model.
Customer: Hrm. Ok, can I get a test drive?
Tesla: Once you make a reservation, the $5k I mentioned.
Customer: I have to reserve before I can test drive?
Tesla: Yes.
Customer: What if I don't like the car after the test drive?
Tesla: The $5k deposit is fully refundable until/unless you "finalize" (i.e. when we contact you to start building the vehicle when your turn arrives in the production queue).
Customer: So I can give you $5k, get my test drive, and then get my $5k back if I'm unhappy?
Tesla: That's correct.

Now if you're the customer at this point, it seems "a bit weird" but if you're really interested in the vehicle I don't see what the big deal is.

As for the "in a few months, we'll call you for the test drive" -- that needs to be fixed. Pay the store employees overtime to give the person a test drive after hours or something. Just make it happen.
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Todd Burch said: ?

So it seems not to be the policy companywide, but perhaps there are a few uppity sales folks out there.
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My neighbor flew out with his wife to take a factory tour and test drive this past Saturday. We live in Kansas City. He drives a Volt and she is in the market for a new car. They did not have a reservation before they scheduled the trip. They did have one after they completed the test drive.

It feels like that is how it is supposed to work. Their reservation number was approximately 18,500.
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brianman said: ?

Customer: This car looks great. How much?
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Customer: I have to reserve before I can test drive?
Tesla: Yes.
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Now if you're the customer at this point, it seems "a bit weird" but if you're really interested in the vehicle I don't see what the big deal is.
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The problem with your theoretical example is that the customer was interested in buying just based on how it looks, and you view the test drive as more confirmation. While there may be some people like that, and obviously early enthusiasts took it on faith, I assume there are many more (like me) who have no idea whether they are interested in the car until they drive it. Of course, once I drove it I put down my deposit right away. There's no way I would have plunked down even a refundable $5000 without having had a chance to drive the car just on principle.
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Not sure what to say but I feel bad for the couple that got a Lexus ICE instead of this awesome car. I can only relate my experience. I reserved over 6 weeks ago and haven't hear anyting about a test drive. I'm assuming they are not caught up. I'm going to be in South Florida this weekend and I called the Miami store. A very cordial young man named Garrett asked me what time on Sunday afternoon between 1 and 4 worked for me. I said 3 would be perfect and then, and only then did he ask me if I was a reservation holder. I got the distinct impression that it didn't matter for him and I already scheduled the test drive. He seemed to just ask me so he could annotate in the computer that he was giving me a test drive. I could be wrong but it felt as though he was giving me the test drive regardless.
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Not to say that they are the same but you don't get to test drive a new Ferrari at all (to correct an earlier post). In addition, many high end car dealers only allow you a test drive with the salesperson which it sounds like cardriver got. When you don't have an inventory of cars or a $100K claim is at stake it makes perfect sense to me to not allow people without reservations to grab the keys and take off.

95% of cars purchased today are bought from dealer lots. It sounds to me that the 2 month delay would have been a deal-breaker anyways to cardriver.
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gregincal said: ?

The problem with your theoretical example is that the customer was interested in buying just based on how it looks, and you view the test drive as more confirmation. While there may be some people like that, and obviously early enthusiasts took it on faith, I assume there are many more (like me) who have no idea whether they are interested in the car until they drive it. Of course, once I drove it I put down my deposit right away.
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I think you're reading too much into "looks great". What I intended was that they had been looking at the vehicle in the store/gallery, explored the touch panel a little, asked some intelligent questions, etc.

gregincal said: ?

There's no way I would have plunked down even a refundable $5000 without having had a chance to drive the car just on principle.
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Would you have been willing to leave something else as collateral on a $100k vehicle that you just wanted to try out? Honestly, I'm kind of surprised how loose traditional car dealerships are with high ticket vehicles and the general public.
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Kipernicus said: ?

Todd Burch is absolutely right. I highly doubt the demo cars are solidly booked for test drives every single day for the next two months.
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I was in Newport Beach last September and stopped by the Tesla store to see if I could get a test drive. I was told no, they're booked up, have to have a deposit etc. When I told them I actually WAS a reservation holder, they took me for a test drive on the spot. No waiting, no appointment. Clearly they had gaps in their schedule then.
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brianman said: ?

Would you have been willing to leave something else as collateral on a $100k vehicle that you just wanted to try out? Honestly, I'm kind of surprised how loose traditional car dealerships are with high ticket vehicles and the general public.
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I'm a bit confused on this. Tesla only ever allows test drives with the salesperson riding along. Even if you have a reservation, it isn't "collateral" in case you wreck the car or anything. Test drive cars are meant for test drives. That's how you sell cars.

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Shorty said: ?

In addition, many high end car dealers only allow you a test drive with the salesperson which it sounds like cardriver got. When you don't have an inventory of cars or a $100K claim is at stake it makes perfect sense to me to not allow people without reservations to grab the keys and take off.
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Tesla only allows test drives with a salesperson even if you have a reservation. cardriver only got to ride as a passenger, not drive the car.
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gregincal said: ?

I'm a bit confused on this. Tesla only ever allows test drives with the salesperson riding along. Even if you have a reservation, it isn't "collateral" in case you wreck the car or anything. Test drive cars are meant for test drives. That's how you sell cars.
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Not only that, they had me sign a pretty serious waiver and damage disclaimer. Never had to do that at a traditional dealership (not saying it doesn't happen, just not to me).
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Kipernicus said: ?

The problem is not so much George's policy, but the attitude of the sales rep who was restrictive rather than accommodating. If she said "please put down a refundable deposit and I'll book you into the next available spot or tell you when there's any idle time and we can squeeze you in" that would have been much less off-putting.
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As I turned up at a restaurant last weekend, the staff at the door said "we're closed". I asked when they opened and got the reply "10 minutes." It is not what you say, it is how you say it. "We open in 10 minutes, sir" would have been so much better.

The way to sell these cars is to get people into them. That certainly worked for the Roadster - at least for me - and is something I hear repeatedly. I can't believe that Tesla haven't worked their way through the backlog of reservation holders for test drives, yet. The Get Amped tour was months ago. So, that would make this either a policy or a misinformed employee. If policy, I suggest it changes. At 25% profit margin on the cars, there have only got to be 3 of these stories to pay for a test drive car.
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I guess it's the salesperson's job to gauge purchase intent, in a tactful manner. I understand that you don't want to waste time giving test drives to every lookie-loo that walks in, but on the other hand if you put up too much resistance you risk burning all future possibilities with that customer. I don't think Tesla can afford that risk and really needs to be careful who they put in those stores.

Personally I've only had good experiences in the stores, but hearing about these incidents kind of irritates me as a fan and a shareholder.
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Didn't read every thread ... but down here in FLA, you can drop in and test drive just about any time. No reservation required. An appointment may help especially on weekends ... but by and large, they have a car and a sales person ready to go. Very good crew at Dania!
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steve841 said: ?

Didn't read every thread ... but down here in FLA, you can drop in and test drive just about any time. No reservation required. An appointment may help especially on weekends ... but by and large, they have a car and a sales person ready to go. Very good crew at Dania!
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Perhaps the further away you are from HQ, the more lenient the employees are as big brother isn't watching as closely.
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Wow - that's a lot of opinions in a short period - thanks to all...

To address a few statements - we are aware that there is a 6 month wait - though were told that since we are getting the 85kW battery - it likely would be shorter than longer... The guy we talked with - and the one who let us ride along were great and very knowledgeable. It looks like that 'test car' sits in the Fashion Island parking garage - it was a busy weekend, and didn't look like there was a line to use it - and it had like 200 miles left (I agree - that part is silly).

As clearly interested people - there should really be a push to get my wife behind the wheel - she would've been happy to put 10K down on the spot after driving... Her getting the push-off of "wait two months then maybe" didn't sit well - hence the trip to Lexus, and the monkey wrench...

I am more knowledgeable than most on the technology - she just wants a nice car to drive.

Instead of a Porsche this last weekend, at least we are in another week holding pattern - who knows, maybe we buy the Lexus to use for 6 months during the wait - or buy it, wait 6 months for Tesla to get things ironed out...

I agree that Tesla needs to educate some of their store employees. IMHO - it looks like a great car - but this business model cannot sell large numbers of cars. Early adopters are easy targets - it may be best that we wait 6 months to let the dust settle. If I was a shareholder, I'd be scratching my head and wondering how they expect to meet very high sales goals. The Apple idea is nice - but there needs to be a bit more from the car sales side {IMHO}...

There are a limited number of people in the US who are jumping to spend $90K on a new car....
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cardriver: Did you ask to speak with the store manager? Maybe just explain your situation and tell them you know test drives are typically reserved for reservation holders but you are serious about the Model S and your wife doesn't want to put down the deposit until after a test drive. Might be worth a try. Good luck.
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dsm363 said: ?

cardriver: Did you ask to speak with the store manager? Maybe just explain your situation and tell them you know test drives are typically reserved for reservation holders but you are serious about the Model S and your wife doesn't want to put down the deposit until after a test drive. Might be worth a try. Good luck.
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^^ This is great advice. Also, you and your wife should know that this car is a DREAM to drive. Don't let one bad/strange experience get in your way of having this car. I know that Tesla needs to figure out how to get people behind the wheel of this thing but, frankly, if you go with anything else it'll be your loss. It's THAT good a car.
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mark said: ?

There has to be a way to limit those who want to test drive for the fun of it and have no real interest in buying. Can you imagine how many folks would line up for a test drive even if the could never afford one? I agree that once a reservation is made, a test drive should be available quickly (within a week).
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Yes and no. There's this, but I also remember myself almost two years ago in Santana Row, asking to test drive a Roadster while being interested in the S. They explained in a long-winded way that they were very different cars, but I said I just wanted to drive something electric and that I wanted to see what the company could do before putting down my deposit. And they were very accommodating about letting me drive the Roadster although I had already told them I wasn't going to buy it. Well, shortly after I reserved an S, and a month ago I bought a fairly loaded car. If they had denied me the Roadster test drive back then I don't know if I would have made the reservation, at least not then.

The same story could apply for someone today with thoughts on GenIII. First impressions last. Just food for thought...
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I'm with Tesla on this one. No reservation -- you don't deserve a test drive. this is a premium product. most of us bought this car before we ever drove it. Tesla doesn't need to beg for sales.

act as if.
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cardriver said: ?

It looks like that 'test car' sits in the Fashion Island parking garage - it was a busy weekend, and didn't look like there was a line to use it - and it had like 200 miles left (I agree - that part is silly).
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I'm assuming it was the same Blue/Tan car I was able to drive in December? Their retail/test drive set up is also a challenge because of the distance between the stores and parking garages in many of the locations. Test drives pull the employee out of the store for quite a while, which leaves them potentially short-staffed to answer walk-in questions if it gets busy. Perhaps having dedicated store employees and dedicated test drive employees would be more efficient, at least on the weekends and at these shopping mall locations during busier times. It'd free them up for more flexibility in their test drive scheduling. I don't object to the reservation system for test drives, but those without deposits should be able to get a slot within a day or two at most.

Beyond that, it's very hard to filter those without deposits down to determine who is 'serious' or an 'enthusiast' for without illegally discriminating. Think of it like an open house on your home...how do you decide if someone is a qualified buyer or a nosy neighbor before they walk through the door? You can't run their credit or check criminal records on the porch, which is why I don't like open houses and work almost solely on private showings in real estate. Even then, we don't ask people to put up a refundable deposit before they spend 30-60 minutes looking through a house they might buy, even if it costs 20x the price of a Model S. Perhaps some proof of funds or pre-approval letter before a showing on something very expensive or celebrity-owned to weed out the curious/unqualified, but never a deposit! I'm sure Tesla will figure all of this out as time goes on.
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kinddog said: ?

I'm with Tesla on this one. No reservation -- you don't deserve a test drive. this is a premium product. most of us bought this car before we ever drove it. Tesla doesn't need to beg for sales.

act as if.
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Ummmm .... I don't think Tesla looks at this as who deserves or doesn't deserve a test drive. They use reservation status in determining priority, that's all. I'm sure they'd like to give everyone a test drive, if current logistics allowed.
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Tesla should crowd source test drives with existing owners! I know I've let a bunch of friends drive my P85!
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I had a much better experience and scheduled a week-day test drive at the Santana Row showroom in San Jose prior to making a reservation (although I did make the reservation immediately after the test drive). Maybe the difference was that I originally contacted them through the web site and the initial response had been very carefully written. Or maybe I just dealt with a more skilled salesperson.

The gist of the initial email was that the test cars were in really short supply and existing reservation holders would get priority, but if you were just a test drive away from making a reservation then they would try and squeeze you in. This seemed totally reasonable to me and I was able to convince them that I was definitely willing to put down the $5,000 deposit if I liked the car after a test drive. They said the weekend slots were booked up for quite a while, but that a weekday slot was open a few days later so I signed up and snuck out of work a bit early that day.

The test drive was also more involved than a test drive at a normal car dealership. The saleswoman, Sylvia, was great. She answered all of our questions, gave a thorough explanation of the nav system, air suspension, regen, customizable screens on the display in front of the driver, etc., and then let both my wife and I drive both in town and on the freeway. Afterwards, she walked us through all the options, helped us through the reservation, took our picture holding the slightly goofy reservation sign, and emailed us the photo. All told, she spent a solid hour with us. So I think part of the long wait time for a test drive is that they want to take their time explaining all the features of the car rather than get people in and out as quickly as possible.
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I diasagree with only being able to test drive the car if one puts down a deposit, and that you don't deserve a test drive if you have not put down a deposit. I can not tell you how many times I receive offers from Porsche, Caddy, MB and Lexus to perform extended (i.e., 2 to 3 day) test drives of their vehicles with no deposit and nothing more than providing a copy of my driver's license. No salesman accompanying me on the extended test drives. In fact, Porsche is even so nice as to bring the car to my office or home, so I do not have to go to the showroom.

Having said that, I should note that I have reservations on two Model S's, and have taken several test drives of the car. All I have done is call the DC store and schedule a day and time. However, a salesperson allways accompanies me on the test drive and I had to sign a release one time. I should also note that I test drove the Roadstor about 2 years ago; I really was not interested in the car but Tesla insisted that I try it and brought it to my law firm to spend several hours driving. A salesperson accompanied me but I never signed any release form (I was asked to sign a release form the second or third time I test drove the Model S). And in case anyone wonders why so many test drives of the Model S, they were to help me decide between the regular model and the performance model.

The DC store is accommodating. If it is Tesla's policy to limit test drives to those with reservations (and I am not sure that this is the case), the policy should be changed. People do stop in car stores to look and drive cars without necessarly buying at that moment, but intending to narrow down their choices. People want instant gratification. If one can not drive the car, Tesla runs the risk of losing sales. And that does not bode well for all us early adopters.
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The Model S sells itself. All you have to do is drive it. I feel certain that if this IS policy Tesla will rethink it maybe even before they catch up on production. I'm getting the car. I would gladly give up any future test drive so they could sell another one.
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Hmm...I'm expecting mine in Feb/March, 85, non-performance, air, pano, etc. I live in the Bay area and been to Santa Row store multiple times, but I have not had the time to test drive yet. This store is fairly busy on weekends, but during the week, they have lots of slots open. When I called, they had lots of test drive slots open during the week day.

As long as they have slots open, they should allow non-reservation holders to test drive on first come first serve basis--in my opinion.
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jchangyy said: ?

Hmm...I'm expecting mine in Feb/March, 85, non-performance, air, pano, etc. I live in the Bay area and been to Santa Row store multiple times, but I have not had the time to test drive yet. This store is fairly busy on weekends, but during the week, they have lots of slots open. When I called, they had lots of test drive slots open during the week day.

As long as they have slots open, they should allow non-reservation holders to test drive on first come first serve basis--in my opinion.
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Santana Row is one of the places that's good about letting you test drive. I stopped by on my way to work after reading a review of the Model S, and they let me take an immediate test drive because the car wasn't currently in use. Menlo Park seemed a bit stuffier.
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swegman said: ?

I diasagree with only being able to test drive the car if one puts down a deposit, and that you don't deserve a test drive if you have not put down a deposit. I can not tell you how many times I receive offers from Porsche, Caddy, MB and Lexus to perform extended (i.e., 2 to 3 day) test drives of their vehicles with no deposit and nothing more than providing a copy of my driver's license. No salesman accompanying me on the extended test drives. In fact, Porsche is even so nice as to bring the car to my office or home, so I do not have to go to the showroom.

Having said that, I should note that I have reservations on two Model S's, and have taken several test drives of the car. All I have done is call the DC store and schedule a day and time. However, a salesperson allways accompanies me on the test drive and I had to sign a release one time. I should also note that I test drove the Roadstor about 2 years ago; I really was not interested in the car but Tesla insisted that I try it and brought it to my law firm to spend several hours driving. A salesperson accompanied me but I never signed any release form (I was asked to sign a release form the second or third time I test drove the Model S). And in case anyone wonders why so many test drives of the Model S, they were to help me decide between the regular model and the performance model.

The DC store is accommodating. If it is Tesla's policy to limit test drives to those with reservations (and I am not sure that this is the case), the policy should be changed. People do stop in car stores to look and drive cars without necessarly buying at that moment, but intending to narrow down their choices. People want instant gratification. If one can not drive the car, Tesla runs the risk of losing sales. And that does not bode well for all us early adopters.
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I agree with swegman (an I don't often agree with lawyers), but many people are not adventurous early adopters, they want to know what they are buying, and, this is understandable, especially at this price. I doubt that I would have reserved without a drive, had there been demos available when I did so. I think that this is just another example of TM not having figured out the logistics yet. I know delivery numbers are very important to the finance side, but, TM, remember, in the long term, so are sales. Invest a few cars and sell a lot. I for one want you to do so that you will be there for me when I need service and when I want my next cars.
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Shorty said: ?

Not to say that they are the same but you don't get to test drive a new Ferrari at all (to correct an earlier post).
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There are certain Ferrari customers who do get test drives. With Ferrari, the issue is whether they will let you buy the car, even if you have the money. When a new, highly anticipated model is released, there is a long standing pecking order in the U.S., with priority given to customers who have purchased multiple Ferraris over a period of years.
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Todd is absolutely correct. If you have a Ferrari history, you do get to test drive new models.
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gregincal said: ?

Santana Row is one of the places that's good about letting you test drive. I stopped by on my way to work after reading a review of the Model S, and they let me take an immediate test drive because the car wasn't currently in use. Menlo Park seemed a bit stuffier.
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I was in the Menlo Park store in mid-December and asked for a test drive. I was told only reservation holders are allowed test drives, and that there is a two-month waiting list.

What if Tesla had inventory on-hand that could be purchased on-the-spot. Let's just say ~10 cars/week off the production line initially. Buyers would have to pay a premium for these cars; the market will dictate the price, but it's probably around $20K in the US right now. If a reservation holder wants to buy it, they can; maybe they get first dibs.

OR

Suppose a walk-in customer is ready to buy a certain configuration. (This assumes they allow a test drive!) Tesla identifies matching cars coming off the production line and asks the reservation holder if they would accept some amount of money in exchange for being "bumped". Reservation holders with configurations could have already specified, in their accounts, the "bump me" price (kind of like Zillow's "make me move" price), so Tesla would just accept your offer automatically if there's another party wiling to buy your car. Win-win-win situation?
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gregincal said: ?

Santana Row is one of the places that's good about letting you test drive. I stopped by on my way to work after reading a review of the Model S, and they let me take an immediate test drive because the car wasn't currently in use. Menlo Park seemed a bit stuffier.
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I had a similar experience. In October, I stopped by the store and unknowingly talked to the assistant manager. We chatted about several things: range anxiety, superchargers, and how wide the car was. She gave me her card and said to email her for a test drive. Got a test drive the next weekend and that sealed the deal.
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In Chi-town (Oak Brook / Old Orchard), if nobody is currently using the car (basically during weekdays), then they will give you a test drive. Doesn't matter if you have a reservation or not. If it is a busier time (weekends), then priority goes to reservation holders. I stopped by the charging station by one of the stores during a weekday (holiday season) and they were giving test rides to non-reservation holders. So it's really just supply and demand from a timing and test mule availability standpoint.

Side note - if anyone wants to test drive a Model S and you're in the Chi-town area, just PM me and I'll do my best to oblige (with my Model S). However, it might cost you a minor gratuity (I-talian beef sandwhich comes to mind!)
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Trnsl8r said: ?

If they had denied me the Roadster test drive back then I don't know if I would have made the reservation, at least not then.

The same story could apply for someone today with thoughts on GenIII. First impressions last. Just food for thought...
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I was at a party the other day where people were talking about Model S and I told them I'm a reservation holder. The host asked if I could arrange a test drive for him, which I was able to do. Santana Row store scheduled a test drive for him in the late hours a couple of days later. This was mid December.

He didn't have a reservation, nor the urge to get one--he just wanted to experience it. After the test drive, he told the co-pilot that the car was too big for him, that he likes mid-size cars better. I could tell she was a little surprised. But first impressions definitely last--I have no doubt my friend will be among the first to put money down for a Gen III.
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49er said: ?

I was in the Menlo Park store in mid-December and asked for a test drive. I was told only reservation holders are allowed test drives, and that there is a two-month waiting list.

What if Tesla had inventory on-hand that could be purchased on-the-spot. Let's just say ~10 cars/week off the production line initially. Buyers would have to pay a premium for these cars; the market will dictate the price, but it's probably around $20K in the US right now. If a reservation holder wants to buy it, they can; maybe they get first dibs.

OR

Suppose a walk-in customer is ready to buy a certain configuration. (This assumes they allow a test drive!) Tesla identifies matching cars coming off the production line and asks the reservation holder if they would accept some amount of money in exchange for being "bumped". Reservation holders with configurations could have already specified, in their accounts, the "bump me" price (kind of like Zillow's "make me move" price), so Tesla would just accept your offer automatically if there's another party wiling to buy your car. Win-win-win situation?
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Short-term win, long-term lose. The revolutionary and nice part about Tesla is the simplicity. Everybody knows how much the car is, no negotiation, no hassles, no guesswork. Even the demo Roadster cars were simple (deduct $1/mile from list price).

I think this is all very refreshing for the car industry. What you suggest would throw it all out the window. Sorry to come down on an idea, but this would come back and bite them.
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I find it strange that you got a ride in the car but couldn't have a test drive for two months...especially for clearly serious shoppers. Perhaps it depends some on where you are. I actually got two test drives (a fluke, but nice). After I made my reservation, the store gave me an appointment for a test drive the next week.

In the meantime I realized I was going to be near another store in a day. I gave them a call, explained I was a reservation holder and wondered if there was an opening for a test drive. There was and I drove. (I didn't cancel my original test drive appointment :>)

I have only great things to say about the tests. The routes showed the car off in all situations and I was allowed to play with all the controls (plug in my music with USB to test sound system, etc.)

It is too bad that the very way the car is sold at least in some locations, results in a no sale.
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3-4 Months ago I understood tesla strict policy on test drives only for reservation holder.
But now Tesla should supply more Cars for test drives so everyone can take a Test drive.
It really seems that the Model S reservation could be a way bigger success than it already is, esp. given the usual reaction of potential buyers after a Test drive.
So far my impression is that the Test drive really is the selling point and that convinces people that where just passengers without any intention to buy a Tesla but after the test drive they were.

So now with a high production rate it really should be possible to supply more test drive cars to the Tesla stores so everyone can have a Test drive, without any waiting time.

Some people forget that the crowd that is happy to spend 90k on a Car is not used to wait in line esp. not when they want to buy something.

And for the people that a saying "well Tesla doesn't have a demand problem" they forget what kind of impression this test drive policy leaves on potential customers.

Tesla current Test drive policy is one thing where Im very disappointed as a shareholder and as a customer.
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@cardriver

When buying a car, the primary focus should be the car -- the product itself. Yes, in a sense, you are buying into the company and trusting them to "do right by you" (and survive long enough for that to matter).

As far as service and customer care post-sale, my vibe from the forum since joining is that there are isolated cases of "I'm unhappy about ..." that crop up only rarely regarding how Tesla has treated customers after the sale. And in most (perhaps nearly all, not sure) of the cases where there was a strong post on the forum, there was typically a follow-up less than two weeks later reporting that Tesla came through -- often with a very "wow, was I wrong" apologetic post.

Now, regarding sales staff, test drives, delivery delays, etc. -- They've made many mistakes, and there are cases where "company policy" ("no test drives without reservation!" and "ranger fees even for due bill items!") is either 'slightly off' or followed heavy-handedly or too literally. Tesla has shown consistently that they are striving to correct these things and while not making perfect course corrections, in the realm of reality and human imperfection they seem to be doing a pretty good job at it.

IMO, much (perhaps all) of the troubles and drama where Tesla isn't initially meeting or exceeding people's expectations boils down to two things.

1. Young company, experiencing growing pains. As an example, when you find a really good sales person he/she might turn into a store manager relatively quickly. At this point, you have an "in" with your local store because you knew the manager when he/she was "just a sales person". And you get to like and trust that person. Then he/she gets promoted again and moves off "to corporate" or to another store that needs experienced leaders. At this point -- relatively speaking -- your store has "gotten worse" because they then have to find some new sales people, break them in, etc. This is just one type of growing pain that they're undergoing. But I felt it might be a useful example to relate.

2. Overload. When people (and machines for that matter) are running at "100% nominal capacity" for long periods -- and worse if at 125% -- they make more mistakes. Sometimes these are mechanical mistakes -- the wrong part or swapping temporary tags on vehicles -- that can be easily remedied. Sometimes these are social mistakes that result in a lost sale (or cascade of sales due to word of mouth). It's not an excuse for "unpleasant" store experiences, but sometimes it's the explanation. Definitely use the store managers as a resource for voicing your concerns so that (A) they can work to get them addressed and (B) they have an opportunity to "make it right" in some way.

I'm rambling a bit. Sorry for the long post.

I hope you find a good vehicle for your lady and that it serves you both well.
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Seems like some staff in some stores enforce the "no test drive without reservation" rule while others don't. It is certainly easier for them as employees to just follow this rule. Sounds like an argument for commission sales to me. Everyone hates on commissions, but it does motivate staff. It's going to be a while before Tesla can afford to keep a bunch of potential $100k sales sitting around as test drive cars, so the incentives have to be in place to use the ones that exist as much as possible.
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Can anyone in Orange County offer this gentleman and his wife a test drive?
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Cattledog said: ?

Can anyone in Orange County offer this gentleman and his wife a test drive?
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+1 No kidding, come on people! Let's get these people on board. We all know they WANT the car.
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brianman said: ?

They've made many mistakes, and there are cases where "company policy" ("no test drives without reservation!" and "ranger fees even for due bill items!") is either 'slightly off' or followed heavy-handedly or too literally.
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To be fair to Tesla, "ranger fees even for due bill items" was never company policy. Joost confirmed as such. This was the case of misunderstanding or miscommunication during training.
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There has been an offer of a test drive from shokunin, see quoted post below.

shokunin said: ?

c&d,

If the Tesla store won't allow your wife to test drive, send me a PM. I'd be happy to give you and your wife test drives in mine.
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The Newport Beach store is unlike any other store. I made a trip out there a few months ago and the salespeople were very aloof- especially the sales manager. Cardriver it may be worth the drive to the Santa Monica or San Diego store.
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Kipernicus said: ?

Todd Burch is absolutely right. I highly doubt the demo cars are solidly booked for test drives every single day for the next two months.
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Actually, I can believe this. When I visited New York -- admittedly earlier in 2012 (I don't remember exactly what month) -- they said "Our demo car is off in Washington for a show. You can check out our Beta but it's not driveable..."

(Edit: and they had a Roadster, but it was a loaner from an owner, not owned by Tesla!)

Because Sig holders were really upset about late delivery, and because so many people wanted their cars in 2012 for tax reasons, I think Tesla has skimped on construction of demo cars. Also, obviously, Tesla makes much quicker cash from producing cars for reservation holders than they do from test drives. Since the reservation rate is running ahead of Tesla's ability to manufacture, deliver, and service, Tesla actually doesn't have very strong incentives to encourage additional reservations right now. They will have such incentives n a month or two when (one hopes!) they get their act together at the back end.

It's probably time now for Tesla to bite the bullet and produce 20 or so test-drive cars now, so that there's plenty of ability to provide test drives, but I can easily believe that they haven't done so yet, and that the test-drive cars are completely overbooked.
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@brianman,

Agree with your ponts. I tend to take all anonymous forums with a grain of salt.

If a Tesla salesperson has the time to take someone on a test drive then I see no reason why the person can't drive the car (with the salesperson in the car) for a short period if they have proper insurance and licensing in place. Taking the keys is another issue.

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ToddRLockwood said: ?

There are certain Ferrari customers who do get test drives. With Ferrari, the issue is whether they will let you buy the car, even if you have the money. When a new, highly anticipated model is released, there is a long standing pecking order in the U.S., with priority given to customers who have purchased multiple Ferraris over a period of years.
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What I was saying is that Ferrari dealerships do not allow people off the street to test drive cars (like the case in point here). If you are a regular customer then you are right.
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PRJIM said: ?

The Newport Beach store is unlike any other store. I made a trip out there a few months ago and the salespeople were very aloof- especially the sales manager. Cardriver it may be worth the drive to the Santa Monica or San Diego store.
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That was not my experience. The staff there were friendly and helpful. The only "odd" thing was that they were booked solid for test drives until I informed them that I was a reservation holder, and then they took me for a drive right then and there. It sure sounds like they were simply enforcing a "policy" from higher up.
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I've only scanned this thread quickly, but....

Isn't the main problem that there is a 6 month wait (maybe 3-6 month) for the actual car? Seems to me this is an example of somebody who wants the upgrade NOW and not in a few months.

Regarding being able to schedule drives, etc., I agree with everybody -- there are good reasons to schedule for any motivated buyer but a 5k deposit isn't too tough of a barrier to entry. The sales model will tend to gather motivated buyers as opposed to people who just want a nice car really soon. Maybe that's the true design purpose at this point anyhow.

I still think this example buyer isn't going to wait 6 months for their car, so that's the main issue here.
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Jason S said: ?

I've only scanned this thread quickly, but....

Isn't the main problem that there is a 6 month wait (maybe 3-6 month) for the actual car? Seems to me this is an example of somebody who wants the upgrade NOW and not in a few months.

Regarding being able to schedule drives, etc., I agree with everybody -- there are good reasons to schedule for any motivated buyer but a 5k deposit isn't too tough of a barrier to entry. The sales model will tend to gather motivated buyers as opposed to people who just want a nice car really soon. Maybe that's the true design purpose at this point anyhow.

I still think this example buyer isn't going to wait 6 months for their car, so that's the main issue here.
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She wanted to buy a Porsche last weekend - but after looking at the Tesla, and driving the Porsche, she thought she wanted the Tesla. She'll wait the 6 months... We may keep the Prius, or trade it for a Lexus to drive for 6 months, then sell it... I'll call the store and try again...
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cardriver said: ?

I'll call the store and try again...
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Good! Please be specific that your wife is 1 test drive away from buying. Please let us know what happens. I want your wife to have the Model S!
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I don't think it is a 6 month wait anymore unless you want the 40 or 60 battery. I am finalizing a white performance 85 and Tesla is assuring me that i will have the car in less than 2 month. They told me they are currently producing 85 performance models. I think the time period just depends on where you catch them in their production chain.
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cardriver said: ?

She wanted to buy a Porsche last weekend - but after looking at the Tesla, and driving the Porsche, she thought she wanted the Tesla. She'll wait the 6 months... We may keep the Prius, or trade it for a Lexus to drive for 6 months, then sell it... I'll call the store and try again...
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swegman said: ?

I don't think it is a 6 month wait anymore unless you want the 40 or 60 battery. I am finalizing a white performance 85 and Tesla is assuring me that i will have the car in less than 2 month. They told me they are currently producing 85 performance models. I think the time period just depends on where you catch them in their production chain.
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Ahhh, good news then! I'm partial to the 85 perf too; I think the 40Kwh base or the 85 perf are the best values. We have an 85 perf. It is my wife's daily driver and I get it for weekends and vacations.

Take up the offer from a current owner. You'll get all the good parts and bad. The good parts are really really really good. The bad are... at most annoying, imho, and better than any other car I've seen. After 3500+ miles my wife and I are very happy about not visiting any gas stations. And I look for any excuse to drive it. :smile:
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neroden said: ?

Actually, I can believe this. When I visited New York -- admittedly earlier in 2012 (I don't remember exactly what month) -- they said "Our demo car is off in Washington for a show. You can check out our Beta but it's not driveable..."

(Edit: and they had a Roadster, but it was a loaner from an owner, not owned by Tesla!)

Because Sig holders were really upset about late delivery, and because so many people wanted their cars in 2012 for tax reasons, I think Tesla has skimped on construction of demo cars. Also, obviously, Tesla makes much quicker cash from producing cars for reservation holders than they do from test drives. Since the reservation rate is running ahead of Tesla's ability to manufacture, deliver, and service, Tesla actually doesn't have very strong incentives to encourage additional reservations right now. They will have such incentives n a month or two when (one hopes!) they get their act together at the back end.

It's probably time now for Tesla to bite the bullet and produce 20 or so test-drive cars now, so that there's plenty of ability to provide test drives, but I can easily believe that they haven't done so yet, and that the test-drive cars are completely overbooked.
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Test drive cars became available at the end of September/beginning of October. There are a lot more than 20 test drive cars now, and they definitely aren't completely overbooked.
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I reserved my car after I test drove it.
I called Paramus Mall in NJ and talked to manager and he was happy to reserve me for test drive on same weekend and after test drive, I reserved Model S.
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I'm going to get slammed for this but I just have to say it....
This is an example of pure arrogance. Tesla needs to learn how to say yes, pure and simple. Every potential customer is consciously or subconsciously evaluating the quality of the organization they are dealing with. Only hard core early adopter Tesla fans (of which I am one) will put up with this crap.

Find a way to give everyone a ride that wants one period full stop. If you must, cull out the pure joy riders but put everyone else you can possibly get your hands on in the car. You may not need these people right this very second but mark my words; a time will come in the very near future where you will need every last one of them and every one they will rave to about the car.

It is worth repeating as it needs to go to everything Tesla does (trades, deliveries, service, etc.); Tesla, find a way to say yes as much as humanly possible! I want you to succeed.
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lolachampcar said: ?

I'm going to get slammed for this but I just have to say it....
This is an example of pure arrogance. Tesla needs to learn how to say yes, pure and simple. Every potential customer is consciously or subconsciously evaluating the quality of the organization they are dealing with. Only hard core early adopter Tesla fans (of which I am one) will put up with this crap.

Find a way to give everyone a ride that wants one period full stop. If you must, cull out the pure joy riders but put everyone else you can possibly get your hands on in the car. You may not need these people right this very second but mark my words; a time will come in the very near future where you will need every last one of them and every one they will rave to about the car.

It is worth repeating as it needs to go to everything Tesla does (trades, deliveries, service, etc.); Tesla, find a way to say yes as much as humanly possible! I want you to succeed.
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And some of us with a long Tesla history would say that that is exactly what they have been doing. Do you really believe that they are instructing stores to be arrogant? We have countless stories in this forum of them going above and beyond to say yes.

pffffyt.
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I've had mixed responses to requests for test drives while I was trying to decide what to finalize on.

As I learned more about what was happening at the stores, I realized it boiled down to whether the store had cars, whether they were getting slammed for test drive bookings (or having to send cars out for media events/reviews) and they're knowing why you want a test drive.

My suggestion: explain to them why you want the test drive. The people at the stores want to do the right thing. They'll do their best to fit you in, given the other priorities they're getting hit with. But be patient and flexible because weird things can get the way.

For example, at one point I couldn't get the test drive I wanted on a config that only one store had in. This because I wanted time with a non-Perf on a highway and there was road construction on the two different routes to the highway. This meant that a 15-20 minute test drive could easily turn into an hour because of traffic so they had to keep to a glorified "around the block" test drive route until one of the highway access routes was unblocked.
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lolachampcar said: ?

I'm going to get slammed for this but I just have to say it....
This is an example of pure arrogance. Tesla needs to learn how to say yes, pure and simple. Every potential customer is consciously or subconsciously evaluating the quality of the organization they are dealing with. Only hard core early adopter Tesla fans (of which I am one) will put up with this crap.

Find a way to give everyone a ride that wants one period full stop. If you must, cull out the pure joy riders but put everyone else you can possibly get your hands on in the car. You may not need these people right this very second but mark my words; a time will come in the very near future where you will need every last one of them and every one they will rave to about the car.

It is worth repeating as it needs to go to everything Tesla does (trades, deliveries, service, etc.); Tesla, find a way to say yes as much as humanly possible! I want you to succeed.
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i agree with this. I did not take from this they are trying to be arrogant, any regular reader here realizes just how much they pay attention to the consumer. Rather though I agree with the point you 'just gotta make it happen'. if someone displays really true interest (which to me dropping by and phoning afterwards while actively looking for a new car does ) either say can i get your number for a last minute cancellation, or why dont you come by the store, you might have to wait a bit but we will squeeze you in, having an employee come in early or stay late...something.

even be straight up, and explain the situation of minimal cars with lots of people wanting to drive them, and give a 'shortened' test ride.

on the other side of the equation, if this is a common enough scenario for george b to comment on it, then simply there is poor planning and they need to make more cars available to drive. if its uncommon then of course they would not. i am estimating here, but probably an extra 50/100 cars would probably solve this issue, and the cost of adding a few employees ( to give the rides) compared to a few more sales would more than balance out. i also realize this would delay reservation holders cars another 3-4 days, but for someone who was waiting years, i do not think this would be an issue.
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bonnie1194 said: ?

And some of us with a long Tesla history would say that that is exactly what they have been doing. Do you really believe that they are instructing stores to be arrogant? We have countless stories in this forum of them going above and beyond to say yes.

pffffyt.
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Maybe, but there are too many reports (as well as personal experience) that some stores are doing a better job than others when it comes to test drives. I have full faith that Tesla will continue to tweak things to be better, but they need to.
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cardriver said: ?

She wanted to buy a Porsche last weekend - but after looking at the Tesla, and driving the Porsche, she thought she wanted the Tesla. She'll wait the 6 months... We may keep the Prius, or trade it for a Lexus to drive for 6 months, then sell it... I'll call the store and try again...
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Please do call the store again and don't give up so easily. Explain it just as you've explained it to us, and I'm sure you can get a test drive arranged in a reasonable period of time. Keep us posted.
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No I do not think Tesla instructs their people to be arrogant.

Tesla does have a different attitude; the Silicon Valley touch if you will. There are a lot of good things about high tech companies but they are not always in tune with people or the customer experience.

Webster says arrogance is in part "an attitude of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner".. A potential customer comes in and goes for a ride. The potential customer reaches back out to Tesla after having driven the Panamerra and wants to drive the car (remember, it is a husband and wife). They are told they can not because other's have priority. It is not unreasonable to characterize that as an arrogant response when most salesmen would kill for that very opportunity. I know, I know, these are not salesmen...... I circle back to the definition of arrogance.

I am simply asking Tesla's sales/customer interface to do everything in its power to say yes to the customer and put as many people in the car as they humanly can. To do anything less than this is an unnecessary risk to the success of MY company.

cardriver,
Please find a local owner and go visit with them. You will probably find a wealth of knowledge about the car, the company and the experience.
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The "no test drive" was not my experience I called the Washington DC store in late August for a test drive. They said they would have a car in early September. I made an appointment and went in and test drove it along with my wife. I put in my reservation after the test drive. In late December I just popped into the store unannounced to look at interiors prior to making my final selections after receiving my configure email. I asked for another drive while I was there and it was no problem.
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I had no problem getting a test drive during the Get Amped tour--even though I didn't register for the drive.
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In Australia, of course there are no modelS to test drive. However, when I wanted to see what an all electric vehicle was like, our local rep was only too willing to bring the roadster round to my home and gave me a full on test drive with the full knowledge that I was not interested in purchase. He even let me drive around to my sons home, got out of the car and let my son drive with me in the passenger seat! Following that, I did put down my deposit on the S - in April 2011. Last year, in March he had a test drive event in a local shopping centre, to which I was invited by email. Had a second test drive of the roadster with my wife as passenger. She hated the car - too low, sports suspension, hard seat etc., but I loved it!! Now can't wait for S, which alas will only be end of this year, maybe next year;(. Bottom line, the test drive and his attitude got me to reserve!!
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They should keep their policy of no commissions for sold Cars.
But should put a reward system in place of how many People got a test drive, that would motivate the employes to give out as much Test drives as possible and that would finally lead to even more reservations and less disappointed customers.
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TD1 said: ?

They should keep their policy of no commissions for sold Cars.
But should put a reward system in place of how many People got a test drive, that would motivate the employes to give out as much Test drives as possible and that would finally lead to even more reservations and less disappointed customers.
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I would broaden it beyond test drives. Happy visitors should be the goal. Yes, you want them to buy the car, but you'd rather than tell everyone they know how awesome the car and the Tesla store vibe is...so that they buy cars. Reward employees for making visitors happy, and empower them to tell people that they are here to make them happy, not to sell them a car. More specifically, "I don't get a commission on the vehicle but I do get noticed for making your Tesla experience better." As a customer, that's music to my ears.
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Quick update:

I talked to the store again, and this time - they were much more accommodating... Couldn't get a drive on Friday (which is the only time she has to drive - and we're heading to the Sundance festival for Sat/Sun) - then I explained we know a bit on the car from our previous experience, and we only need 5-10 minutes of her driving to seal the deal. I was told that Tesla books their cars for 1 hour blocks (!!!) - and if we only needed a short time, they can work us in Friday... So you'll probably see me posting here a bit more - as I'm sure she'll go for the Tesla....

Odd fact that seems to have traction - Tesla NEEDS to change their store policies - and since they are a store front - my suggestions:

1. McDonald's model - every store should be the same experience.
2. One hour blocks on a cars is (or should I use 'are' - any English majors around - please advise???) plain silly - clearly this leads to GOBS of down time. Use that downtime!!!
3. Empower the employees to make audible calls based on their 'feel' - this maybe is being done - because one employee took us for a 10 minute drive - which is the main thing that changed her mind - the Porsche wasn't the only option

People here keep saying they should have more vehicles - I don't think that matters if you are more smart related to time spent in/on the car. For each of these hour blocks for one customer, I'm sure there are lots of 15 minute windows-a-plenty in each day!

Looking forward to opening our home electrical panel, and plumbing 220/240 to the charger
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cardriver said: ?

Quick update:

I talked to the store again, and this time - they were much more accommodating...
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So glad to hear this cardriver. I really look forward to hearing back, and hope that you and your wife love the car! It really is an UNREAL driving experience!

cardriver said: ?

Odd fact that seems to have traction - Tesla NEEDS to change their store policies - and since they are a store front - my suggestions:

1. McDonald's model - every store should be the same experience.
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I believe this is their intent. I guess the goal hasn't been achieved yet.

cardriver said: ?

2. One hour blocks on a cars is (or should I use 'are' - any English majors around - please advise???) plain silly - clearly this leads to GOBS of down time. Use that downtime!!!
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One hour blocks on cars are... :smile:. Although I'd recommend "A one hour block is..." But anyway :wink:, I completely agree.

cardriver said: ?

3. Empower the employees to make audible calls based on their 'feel' - this maybe is being done - because one employee took us for a 10 minute drive - which is the main thing that changed her mind - the Porsche wasn't the only option
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100% agree.

Enjoy the drive/ride, and please report back. Hopefully Tesla will win back your trust and enthusiasm, but even more so I hope the car captures your attention and doesn't give it back!
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1 hour block sounds reasonable. It's a damn if you, damn if you don't scenario. For someone test driving they'll probably be lots of questions, 5 mins to walk to the car, 5 min orientation, 20 minute drive, 5 min to explain charging, 5 min walk back to the store, 10min to process $5K reservation, and get ready for the next appt. There's no way to schedule 30 min blocks unless they have so many reservations and enough sales associates to stagger and queue up rides that coincide with the return of the previous test drive.
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Swegman,
did you end up with the performance or non-performance model?
how would you compare the 2?
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cardriver said: ?

Quick update:

I talked to the store again, and this time - they were much more accommodating... Couldn't get a drive on Friday (which is the only time she has to drive - and we're heading to the Sundance festival for Sat/Sun) - then I explained we know a bit on the car from our previous experience, and we only need 5-10 minutes of her driving to seal the deal. I was told that Tesla books their cars for 1 hour blocks (!!!) - and if we only needed a short time, they can work us in Friday... So you'll probably see me posting here a bit more - as I'm sure she'll go for the Tesla....

Odd fact that seems to have traction - Tesla NEEDS to change their store policies - and since they are a store front - my suggestions:

1. McDonald's model - every store should be the same experience.
2. One hour blocks on a cars is (or should I use 'are' - any English majors around - please advise???) plain silly - clearly this leads to GOBS of down time. Use that downtime!!!
3. Empower the employees to make audible calls based on their 'feel' - this maybe is being done - because one employee took us for a 10 minute drive - which is the main thing that changed her mind - the Porsche wasn't the only option

People here keep saying they should have more vehicles - I don't think that matters if you are more smart related to time spent in/on the car. For each of these hour blocks for one customer, I'm sure there are lots of 15 minute windows-a-plenty in each day!

Looking forward to opening our home electrical panel, and plumbing 220/240 to the charger
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Good for you! And good luck with the test drive. You're wife will love driving it. I know my wife does not want to give it to me during the week as it is her car.
I know others have mentioned it already but If you need more time with a car, let me know. We are in mission Viejo.
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Seidste1,

I'm gonna get the performance model. Don't really need it, but figured if i'm spending that much money already, might as well go all the way. I also like the feel of the seats and interior better. The salesperson thought the seats were the same in both versions of the car, but I broke my tail bone once and I felt the performance version seats had somewhat better support in that region of the body.

Getting the white and need to decide between tan or gray interior. Have to January 23 to finalize.
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I was under the impression that test drives were now open to non-reservation holders and it had been this way for some time. Maybe it just depends on location and availability of cars, but yeah I think that reservation holders who have already test driven before either at a Get Amped event or a standard test drive at a store should be a low priority in favor of reservation holders who have not yet had a test drive and others who are seriously interested in the car, and I absolutely do think that Tesla should be trying to give test drives to folks who do not necessarily have the intention of putting down a deposit right away. It's a tough call though, because of course, they should avoid giving test drives to people who want nothing more than a joyride.
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brianman said: ?

I would broaden it beyond test drives. Happy visitors should be the goal. Yes, you want them to buy the car, but you'd rather than tell everyone they know how awesome the car and the Tesla store vibe is...so that they buy cars. Reward employees for making visitors happy, and empower them to tell people that they are here to make them happy, not to sell them a car. More specifically, "I don't get a commission on the vehicle but I do get noticed for making your Tesla experience better." As a customer, that's music to my ears.
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Ditto that! My "guy" at the Westchester store was so great that I will go back there for my "X", bypassing two closer store, just so that he can get whatever brownie points he can from TM for selling more cars out of his store.
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shokunin said: ?

1 hour block sounds reasonable. It's a damn if you, damn if you don't scenario. For someone test driving they'll probably be lots of questions, 5 mins to walk to the car, 5 min orientation, 20 minute drive, 5 min to explain charging, 5 min walk back to the store, 10min to process $5K reservation, and get ready for the next appt. There's no way to schedule 30 min blocks unless they have so many reservations and enough sales associates to stagger and queue up rides that coincide with the return of the previous test drive.
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I agree.. I stopped to do some math on the issue about half way through this thread and used 1 hour blocks as my assumption for how long you need to allocate for a test drive. Tesla was able to do better during Get Amped by employing a production line, but even then the test blocks likely averaged ~20 minutes per car, and there just isn't any way to replicate that kind of turnaround at the store level (on a consistent basis).

As to the math, going from memory (which is fallible in my case) I think there were ~13,000 reservations as of the end of September. As of right now there are ~21,000 net reservations worldwide, while ~18,500 of those are in the U.S. (I don't recall the number of U.S. reservations at the end of September, but if the ratio's were the same it would be about ~11,500). Honestly the exact numbers don't matter that much in this case but I am confident enough to get a grasp of what the scale of the problem is. We have maybe 7,000 new U.S. reservation holders in the last 3 months and about ~20 stores (some only recently opened).

Doing quickie math (and not worrying about precision) it seems like each store gets about 3 or 4 new paying customers each day. It looks like it should be manageable, but its important to recall that Get Amped did ~5,000 test drives, which left a legacy of ~7,000 U.S. customers who needed to get test drives through a store. Plus, its fairly obvious that many customers have taken more than one test drive, and it seems likely to me that finalize e-mails would be driving demand for new test drives, and those are going out at increasing rates along with the ramp up in production.

My point is, that fuzzy back of the envelope math is enough to visualize a latent demand of 8-10 test drives per day per store, just from customers who have reservations. Many of those will tend to cluster into weekends and evenings, which would clearly leave those desired times impacted. Obviously, there is time available and stores need to be flexible, but I don't think its fair to assume that the stores have a capacity to offer test drives on the spot to every walk up customer who asks at this point.

As a shareholder I'd love to see more test cars, more press cars, more sales staff, (many) more delivery staff, etc. But as a manager I know these things just don't magic themselves into existence, and Tesla is a company that is bootstrapping itself into becoming an automaker that is competing head to head with Porsche, BMW and Mercedes with the kind of resources that those companies feel comfortable blowing on their racing teams.
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It sure seems like Tesla is now offering test drives to anyone interested. It's right there on the website: Model S Test Drive | Tesla Motors

"Request a Test DriveWhether you're already a reservation holder or are thinking about placing a reservation, sign up below and we'll contact you."

That should standardize the experience.

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gaswalla said: ?

It sure seems like Tesla is now offering test drives to anyone interested. It's right there on the website: Model S Test Drive | Tesla Motors

"Request a Test DriveWhether you're already a reservation holder or are thinking about placing a reservation, sign up below and we'll contact you."

That should standardize the experience.

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I signed up weeks ago. No word from Tesla.
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amazing this thread is still happening...
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It's Friday!
I hope OPs wife loved the car, and I think I speak for all of us when I say "what is your reservation number?"
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cardriver said: ?

So the wife gets a new job, decides with the bonus, she'll buy a new car. Her brother just bought a Panamera, and she has decided that is the car.

On the way to the Porsche dealer, I talk her into stopping by Tesla - being very aware of the car, I think in the $90K range, it would fit perfectly - she doesn't want to stop, she's sure about the Panamera. I get her to stop by Tesla. We meet a nice guy who gives us a tour around the car - the more she hears, the more she's clearly liking it. I explain we are getting a Panamera - but really like this Tesla. He gets coworker to give us a quick drive as passengers around Fashion Island. Very nice knowledgeable guy who explains everything you would want to know about the thing. After the 5 minute ride, she now REALLY likes the car. We thank him, and head out to Porsche.

At Porsche, we get a great tour of it's features etc - then she drives it. Afterwards, she says she didn't like the feel/drive-but liked the Tesla.

Next day, we go to CARMAX - just because they had 3 Panameras on the lot - and it would give her another shot at the Panamera (which I was pulling for). Drove it a few miles, and again said she didn't like the ride.

Now for the "how not to sell cars" part.

We have 1.5 hours to kill - so I call Tesla to figure out the logistics. The girl who answers starts talking about the car, I quickly explain our experience the day before, and with the Porsche - she says come on down. I tell her we need to schedule a test drive (which we were told before could be done) - she cuts me off and says 'woe' - you can't drive the car. My wife says "what????" listening in on our conversation... She goes on to say we can put down $5K, then maybe in 2 months we will get a call to schedule a drive when we formally order the car. She goes on to say that there are too many people who want to drive the car that have already put down deposits (???)... Wife goes "that's crazy" - I was ready to put down any amount, and order the car - lets go to Lexus.

So off to Lexus we go - she sees a ES300 hybrid, looks at it, gets a quick test drive - coming from the Porsche, this thing rides amazing, it's quiet, it's comfortable - it's green (40MPG) - she really likes it.

So we go from $88K Porsche, to $88K Tesla, to $48K Lexus. We were going to buy something this weekend - she would have waited the 6 months for a 80kW Tesla - but now that's out, and now I'm trying to talk her into an XJ Jag...

Bottom line, I know there's a line of people wanting to drive who have put down deposits. She would have only needed 5 minutes in the car to verify what we saw as passengers - it was a slam dunk - Tesla shareholders need these slam dunks - not deposit holder drives. 5 minutes for $90K seems like a no brainer in the big scheme of things... The other intangible - my wife works in a VERY high net worth world - there's no telling how many more Tesla's could have been sold...
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Sorry to hear about your experience with Tesla... I'm sure if you would have driven the car, you would have tried to take the test car itself... Its super cool car to drive!
I think that the particular store manager was a b*tch. He/she should be fired. I went to the store in Long Island during my winter break to take a look at the car. I spoke to the manager there, she was super nice, very respectful, and allowed me to get into the car and play around with it. I told her I would think about the deposit and left that Friday. I called her back the next day, told her that I would like to come in for a test drive but couldn't put give her the deposit that day for personal reasons, but would do so sometime the following week.
She was super nice about it, got me, and both of my parents into the test-drive car and we drove around the town for about 30-45 minutes. We even took the car to an empty parking lot behind a mall and my dad and I started messing with the car (flooring it, slaming on the breaks etc) to test the acceleration/brakes. It was absolutely amazing, I finally reserved the car and now I'm eagerly awaiting my button (based on the other forms it should be coming today!)...

If I hadn't driven the car, I would definitely have gotten a BMW 550xi instead, which fully loaded (with dozens more feature which I would consider "standard" for a class in this range, such as 360 cameras, self-parking etc.) costs 20K less than this car, even after the tax rebate.

I recommend going to another store and getting into the car, you will love it. Based on the post, it seems like you can still afford buying the car even after getting the Lexus.

P.S.
I currently have a '05 Lexus ES330 (my dad's old car), and its pretty nice... Def. not the power I would like, but Lexus does make great cars!
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teslamotorclub

Thứ Năm, 26 tháng 1, 2017

A sad tale of how not to sell cars (???)... part 1

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