Jan 31, 2013
kinddog Wondering if, after showing the car to friends and/or family, there are any uncomfortable questions or conversations like:
"wow great car, how much did this set you back?"
"this model was about $85k"
"uhh... wow... okay... didn't know Initech paid so well for those TPS reports."
"uhh... yeah, so... wanna get some pizza?"
i mean, this car should come with a bumper sticker that says "I am either a historically irresponsible financial decision maker - or - I have more money than I possibly know what to do with. You decide."�
Jan 31, 2013
Robert.Boston My answer is "The base model costs about $50 grand after the federal tax credit." Outside the family, it's no one's business to know what I paid for the car. Talking about money isn't polite.�
Jan 31, 2013
efusco I just say "It's a high end luxury car, but Tesla's planning on making a more affordable version that just about anyone can afford in a few years." I admit that it's far outside my usual car budget but that I believe in and want to support the technology and that this is THE car I've been waiting for for 7 or 8 years and want to support the company that finally built it.�
Jan 31, 2013
mfarendt Or use the quote from Ferris - "It is so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up."�
Jan 31, 2013
kinddog 
�
Jan 31, 2013
contaygious I get snarky "how much did that coat you?" comments sometimes. Probably more often then I think considering I can't hear people talking with windows up and music on.�
Jan 31, 2013
FlasherZ I say the following:
"Here's how I paid for it... first, the US gives us $7,500 in a tax credit on federal taxes; Illinois (as broke as we are) gives us $4,000 in a rebate. I'll save $40,000 over 150,000 miles in gasoline compared to my Suburban or Traverse. So now the car comes down to about $50,000 - as well-configured as it is. Normally, I keep cars for 5 years or so; instead, I stretched my Suburban to nearly 10 years now, and my wife stretched her Imapala to 8 years...so rather than buy new cars, we saved the dollars and invested them in this car. I'm still making an investment in our future -- in electric cars -- but in a few years, Tesla will have this down to a car that practically pays for itself over the life of it."�
Jan 31, 2013
bonnie +1 That's how I've always handled the question when asked about my Roadster ... Sport ... with carbon fiber ... and and and. Only twice has someone said, 'but how much did THIS car cost?'. I've just smiled and repeated the cost of the base model. Or that this car isn't manufactured anymore. And then move onto the Model S and Gen III.�
Jan 31, 2013
ElSupreme I get that question all the time. I used to try to beat around the bush and say it starts at 50k and what not. Now I sort of sheepishly say it costs "85 grand ... but I save $300+ in fuel every month, I get 12 grand in rebates, ... but it is still a stupidly expensive car."
It isn't hard to look up the price. It is fairly obvious I got the 85kWh pack. You are at 80k right there. It isn't like they wont find out. It is fairly obvious it is a stupidly expensive car.
My wife has a bunch of friends and acquaintances that are way more wealthy than I am. And I was the kid on full scholarship at the high end private school in Tampa for 4 years. And I generally am not jealous of what they have at all, as long as they are gracious about their wealth and toys. I have no animosity towards them. I think this is a pretty common feeling so I don't worry about it as much. I used to but not really anymore.
Not to mention I am highly educated, have a professional job, and am really good at what I do (and pretty much everyone else can see that). I am young and don't have kids or other large expenses (I bought a cheap house) why not splurge on a car. Plus in Atlanta having a flashy car is not that uncommon, so that helps a bunch.
At work it is a little delicate about price but they are going to sit in my car, I'll punch it, and then they will think I got the performance unless I tell them otherwise.
The people who care how much money you make are the people who are going to go look up the cost online.�
Jan 31, 2013
kinddog I totally agree. Unfortunately most other people's parents did not do as good a job raising them as ours did us.
Still tough economic times, and haters gonna hate whether they bring it up to you, or just think it in their beanie little heads behind your back. Or get in the car with their spouse to go home and all be talkin smack about you to make them feel better about their own pathetic lives.�
Jan 31, 2013
ToddRLockwood I would simply direct them to some parallel territory... "It's in the same price range as a top-of-the-line Audi or BMW."
Funny, it's the opposite problem when you drive a Ferrari. People assume that the car cost you a million dollars, when you might have paid $50K for it.�
Jan 31, 2013
Arnold Panz I get this question a lot. Most people are pleasantly surprised to know that at its most expensive it's about $100k. Just based on looks alone people figure it's in the Maserati/Bentley price range. Truth be told, most people, when you tell them it's all electric, goes up to 300 miles on a charge, show them the frunk, explain that it's faster than a Porsche or BMW M5 etc. etc., they're shocked that it's "only" $100k (or less).
When people ask about the price of my specific car, I non-answer the question by talking about total cost of ownership -- no oil changes, no transmissions that can die, no gas to pay etc., and say that for the 5-7 years I plan on having the car, it will cost me the equivalent of a $40-$50k car, and for the 40 kWh or 60 kWh versions it's even cheaper to own over the long haul. That discussion usually gets them distracted from the specific price of my car.�
Jan 31, 2013
jbherman If I choose to answer this rude question (it depends on how well I know the person asking and if it's a business or personal relationship), I either say "it's expensive, but competitively priced for what you get" or "similar to a Porsche Panamera, but the performance and investment are better in the end." If I'm feeling truly offended, I might just say "what's your income and I'll tell you if you can afford it?!" I haven't gone that route yet!�
Jan 31, 2013
NigelM Same here.
My response is that "...prices go from 50 something to over 100..." then if the follow up comes asking about mine specifically I just say that "...well, I couldn't resist all the extras..." and smile. If my wife gets asked she just says "I don't know, my husband bought it for me as a gift...", that gets a few chuckles and an occasional jaw-drop.�
Jan 31, 2013
Discoducky Tell them about your great PenFed loan rate!�
Jan 31, 2013
Joel +1. That is my response. Verbatim.�
Jan 31, 2013
carrerascott "Cheaper than the most expensive Audi's, Mercedes, etc."
or
"It cost me $0 in gas."
�
Jan 31, 2013
SCW-Greg Everybody has a vice. Some it's skiing, jet bikes, boating, traveling, a 2nd home... some all the above. For me it's this car.
If it was any other car it may not pencil out, but it's the only one solves so many problems at once. If I'm going to put money down, I couldn't think of a better place, or for more pure enjoyment than this.�
Jan 31, 2013
dave The problem is that currently the car IS a toy for the rich... If you can't afford a top end Audi or BMW you can't afford this car either. We've justified the price tag to ourselves for various performance/political/environmental reasons, but the car is still very expensive and out of the reach of most people.
I am the one person in my family circle who has worked his butt off, got a decent job, and can (barely) afford this car. I'm finding it very awkward now to explain the price tag to friends and family. As much as I justify it, the reality is that none of them could afford it, regardless of how much of a "value" it is, or how good it is for the environment, etc...
Part of the problem is that I didn't think the car would be so stunning in person. (I bought it without ever seeing one). I was thinking it would be more of a "stealth" car, but everyone goes nuts when they see it, drooling over the door handles, etc. I'm not a big fan of all the attention its getting so far.�
Jan 31, 2013
Mike_Schlechter I basically explain that I started saving for this car before it was even announced, and that I accept the high upfront costs being offset by low ownership costs - much like my PV system. And, like my PV system, I financed it, so it isn't as if I laid down all $80k at once.
When I told a guy who stopped me on the street my cost was around $80k, he said it was about $120k less than he thought the car was. There are a ton of cost perception issues out there, and as an early adopter of green tech I am fairly used to this dance.
Also, I totally agree the actual costs is a private matter, and haven't told anyone but my wife the actual cost I paid out upfront or financed.�
Jan 31, 2013
gg_got_a_tesla I find it particularly awkward when my coworkers come to know of the car that I'm driving. Many of them are polite enough to not talk about price (and are smart enough to go to the Tesla website to look it up).
If it's personal friends posing the question "what were you thinking?!!", I simply come back with "you only live once!"�
Jan 31, 2013
SCW-Greg I think a lot of us are in exactly these shoes Dave. Could the money go to improving your net worth, in investments that yield returns, etc. Or just plain old splurging on something like this. But this car is *not* a Panamera, a 750iL, CL550.
For many of us, it's getting over, getting used to, not living a quiet, low key existence. One that doesn't blatantly call attention to yourself. That we may be perceived as "flaunting" this thing.
You simply just shouldn't be too worried about what others think of you.
IMHO�
Jan 31, 2013
Eric from NE "If you have to ask..."�
Jan 31, 2013
ElSupreme Well I disagree on a couple of points. I could not afford a $80k Audi A7. The fuel costs would put me out. The operating costs of the Tesla are significantly less than a comparable car. The 40kWh car over 5 years is about equal to buying a $35-40k BMW 3 (or Subaru STI) if you include the rebates out there. And it gets even cheaper the longer you hold onto cars. And sure buying the performance makes the car a 'toy'. But a lot of people are using the S as their workhorse daily driver.
I agree it isn't an every(wo)man's car but it certainly isn't in the 'toys for the rich' level. I wouldn't consider myself 'rich'. Upper middle class most definitely. But I live fairly frugally, and saved a bunch for this car. It really is about priorities. And well I have messed up priorities where I think sinking a ton of money into a sweet ride is a good idea.�
Jan 31, 2013
jackie I am really glad this thread has been started and so many brave people have been honest. I was beginning to think my american cousins (a UK way of looking at the USA) were all too rich. Instead I have now found out that you are just like us on this side of the pond. Hard working and really buying (literally) into the EV dream.
I had a similar problem about the price when I went to buy my baby-Jag. I live in the Netherlands we pay way over the odds for ICE cars due to too many taxes. I explained to the salesman that I was concerned about what my customers would think when I turned up in such an expensive car. He then told me a story from one of his customers. The man was also concerned about how it would look to his customers. However his excuse was going to be that his wife had come into some money.
It's been a few years since I bought the Jag and I am getting near the age where my accountant is finding it necessary to point out that life is short and I can afford to enjoy it. Being a nose-to-the-grindstone sort of person I haven't been looking up too much but I have started to notice that many of my idols are passing away and with ages close to and sometimes below mine.
So my excuse is "My accountant told me I had to buy it" and if they ask the price I guess I will just say it depends on the model - I can give you the website address if you want. And by the way the idea to buy into pure EV was originally mine but it is my husband who is now insisting it should be a performance version and in red.�
Jan 31, 2013
ElSupreme Yes this too! Very well said. I have gotten over trying to justify anything over crappy econobox. Many people at my work drive them because they are the best 'transport units' but a 'transport unit' is not what I want. A Prius, Versa, Focus, Fiesta are 'transport units'.�
Jan 31, 2013
brianman "It's more than I wanted to pay, but worth more than I paid. Did you want to reserve one?"
The question flips them into a defensive posture if they were previously in an offensive posture.�
Jan 31, 2013
Mike_Schlechter I don't share that sentiment. I'm not "rich" but I would say I'm comfortable (of course, living in the NY Metro my salary may be high by many standards, so too are my costs of living). My wife and I are quite frugal, but we do spend on things we see the value in. We save, and plan, and then plan and save some more so we can afford things like the Model S (or at least afford part of it and get a loan for the rest). I can't remember the last time we went out for an extravagant dinner or bought a bottle of wine that cost more than $20. Our vacations generally involve a tent, and our weekends are not spent shopping just because.
Like @SCW-Greg we can barely afford this car, and only because we have worked really hard, and saved a lot along the way. Yes, this is an extravagance that is far from the norm for us. Yes, this is a car that is not tenable for most people, but to presume extreme wealth isn't really fair.�
Jan 31, 2013
ckessel I start with the base model price and comment that after gas savings it gets in the range of a decked out Camry, then note that the price ranges to about 2x with all the long range battery options, pano roof, performance and such though for the most part you can't visually tell the base model from the decked out model. I also typically note I was in the market for the base model, but through some happenstance had some one-time events that I chose to put towards upgrading the car.
If the first step is them thinking they might like Product A, the second natural step is wondering if they can afford it. I don't take offense to them liking Product A and I'm not going to take offense at the natural follow-on affordability question.
People ask each other about costs all the time, albeit sometimes via implication. "How much was it to fly to location X for vacation? Did you get that jacket/shoes/shirt/whatever on sale? Great wine, is it a special occasion thing or something you could break out regularly?" It's an indirect compliment in a way. They aren't asking the price because they think it's an ugly piece of crap and you were a fool to get it at any price. They're asking because they liked your taste.
My limited experience in talking with people about Tesla is that dodging the price question frequently leads to some combination of:
1) Suspicion, leaving them more poorly inclined to Tesla than before the conversation started.
2) Indignation, by dodging some folks feel I'm questioning their financial status or pulling a variant of the "If you have to ask you can't afford it" meme.
I'm generally a fan of the sunshine policy. The light of truth outweighs all other factors. If someone is bothered by facts, that's outside of my control.�
Jan 31, 2013
sp4rk Ok, kinddog ... seriously ... it's time to change your avatar!!!
Luckily I report to me ... and only my accountant knows my finances, (oh, and the IRS) and like others have said, I never discuss money. I was brought up (UK style) to see it as being "gauche".�
Jan 31, 2013
wycolo "TESLA T_E_S_L_A They're on the Internet." End of discussion. This way they go home with at least the name memorized.
If they already knew the name then they already know the answer and are just chit-chatting. So change subject or better, just drive off into the sunset, using restraint if at all possible.
--�
Jan 31, 2013
Raven Suburbans/Tahoes/Escalades dominate where I live so I tell them it costs the same as a well equipped Chevy Suburban and they give that "oh, that's not bad" look and move to the next question. Of course that's after the tax credit but who's counting?�
Jan 31, 2013
sp4rk I think the extreme wealth angle is exaggerated ... but ... I usually see a car as costing one 10% max of one's living allowance. So if you go with the all decked out model, call it $100k, then for a 5 year note (80%), call it $1,500 a month, or $180,000 annual income? Am I wrong? Plus the downpayment.
I also suspect that a significant number of these are being bought "cash". But what is cash? And with loans as low as 2.5%, it can be cheaper to borrow than to "cash in" a position in a mutual fund portfolio that's making 12 point over the year? And if you using a HELOC, the interest is tax deductible.
Homes are what? 28% allowed for PITI? (Prinicpal, Interest, Taxes and Insurance) ... but two in a house?
So, loaded, I still see this car as viable for a "lucky" 1% still?�
Jan 31, 2013
ElSupreme Except that 1% is (or was a year or two ago) ~$350,000 for a single individual. Or $~550,000 for a household. There is a lot of slop between $180,000 and $550,000. Probably at least 9% would be my guess.
And only 10% of living income is pretty low. Many lower income people spend way more than that. Hell I bet most people earning under $50,000, with a car, have their fuel bill be >10% of their living income.�
Jan 31, 2013
Jdcleary Perfect! Absolutely correct message and I plan to use it.�
Jan 31, 2013
shady I used to get that a lot at Gas stations when my MR2 Spyder was new. I guess I'll not have that problem when my S3 arrives
I think I'll go with " Well, you can go extreme and spend over 100K, or you can do what I did and buy the base model for around 50K and just add the options that are really important."
Obviously, I'll leave out the fact that most of the options were really important to me�
Jan 31, 2013
Teslawisher I'm not a fan of non-answers. Reminds me of politics. While I agree it is rude to ask such a question, if you are going to ask me, I'll tell you. Your perception of my answer is your problem. You have no idea how I live, save, plan, how many scratch-off tickets I've won, inheritances, wife who earns significantly more, second job, etc. etc. etc. And I'll follow up with all the benefits that I see in buying it.
However, if you don't like divulging how much you've paid for whatever reason, I'd say: "It's on the expensive side, I prefer not to say specifically (that's the direct answer to the question). But, let me tell you this..." and then go into the cost of ownership, belief in the company, environment, that you've saved, etc.
Of course, the thread was meant to ask owners (which I, unfortunately am not, yet), so my apologies for posting my 2 cents.�
Jan 31, 2013
Arnold Panz Dave, I'm very sympathetic to your problem. I have been most surprised by the fact that 70% (or more) of the people who ask about the car have no idea what Tesla is, they just love the way it looks and assume it's a super-high end luxury automobile. I've spent a lot of time in and around Florence (I frequently have work near the CVG airport), and can only imagine how much a Model S sticks out like a (beautiful) sore thumb. In Miami, it's quite common to see luxury and/or unique cars regularly, so people just admire them and move on, but a Maserati, Aston Martin or Bentley (for example) would probably get a lot more attention where you live than they do here.
I like Evan's suggestion of changing the discussion to Gen III and gearing it away from the cost of the S.�
Jan 31, 2013
raptorweb I normally mention that it starts around 50k after tax rebate and that when I paid off my last car I put my normal payment into savings for a future car. That and I always mention I have low overhead that normally redirects the question away from the car price and into exactly what that means. :tongue:�
Jan 31, 2013
Robert.Boston Good point -- the answer has to be tailored to the audience. In talking to my CEO, who drives a Panamera and knows precisely how much I make, an answer like "about the same as a nicely fitted Audi A7" is a good answer (or "less than your Porsche" but that would border on rude....) Random guy on the street? My answer above, "starts at $50k".�
Jan 31, 2013
carrerascott I have a 1980 Ferrari 308. Cost me $20k. Filled it up recently and guy came over and said "What does that cost, about $250k?"
Since people like pics...
�
Jan 31, 2013
kinddog two-tone for the WIN, SON!!! Magnum P.I. til i die....
love the 308. used to daydream about that car like crazy when i was a kid. and the Testarossa. and the 911. and the 959. and the F40. and the Countach.�
Jan 31, 2013
stevezzzz "Question and answer is not a civilised form of discourse."
. - Stephen Maturin
But I usually give the "$50K for the base model" answer and move on to talk about the low operating/maintenance costs and the solar PV system on my roof; if their eyes haven't glazed over I'll mention gen III.�
Jan 31, 2013
sp4rk Pic was necessary ... 'round these here parts ... no photo, didn't happen.�
Jan 31, 2013
Tesla 940 With the Roadster I would just say it starts at $110k. If the person said anything like "must be nice" my reply was usually, I don't have kids and I don't have to support anyone but myself. Those that know me generally know that I have some rental property - decades of investing pays off.�
Jan 31, 2013
gregincal I always say "about the same as a BMW 5 series." If you include the M5 as a comparison for the perf, it's generally true. BMW's are a dime a dozen around here, so it doesn't raise too many eyebrows. It avoids talking about actual money, and if they know how much a 5 series costs then they follow luxury cars. If they only have a vague idea that's fine too.�
Jan 31, 2013
nrcooled I also find it rude that people ask and also find that a LOT of people ask about the price I paid. I give the same response as Robert.Boston.
I have never asked how much someone has paid for a car because it's none of my business. If I'm interested in the pricing I will simply go online to find the pricing and go from there.�
Jan 31, 2013
rbt3 I am going to say less than my last car, (2010 Porsche Panamera 4S). Anyone who asks this question needs to look it up for themselves and it is really not their business to know what you pay for anything. We have the right in this country to spend our hard or easily earned money on whatever legal purchases we want. We want Tesla Model S's!�
Jan 31, 2013
hans "Less than any comparable gas car" sometimes followed by "and worth every penny".�
Jan 31, 2013
Eric from NE I mostly don't either. It just depends on "how" I was asked, you know? You can usually tell if someone is asking because they are genuinely interested or if they want to start an argument. In uber-red state Nebraska, I've been on the defensive quite a bit since the election and the Romney comments. I try to brush it off as much as possible but there are still those that just want an argument.�
Jan 31, 2013
Al Sherman My wife and I were just discussing this today. I drove a Prius for over 5 years. It didn't bother me at all when people thought "oh he's just a tree hugger." It didn't bother me at all when they thought "oh, that's a shame that all he can afford is a Prius." I've loved the car and have been proud to own/drive it. Along the same lines; It wont bother me a bit to be driving a +100k MS. For me it's the car I've been waiting for. The obvious next step for me after the Prius. I bought all the bells and whistles that the Prius had to offer. I did the same with the MS because I was getting the car anyway/always and I could. I'm gonna love this car, and be proud to drive it. Being able to afford the price has nothing at all to do with that pride.
I do however sometimes wish I was better at explaining (as so many here are) why it is so awesome, and such a quantum leap forward.�
Jan 31, 2013
Trnsl8r I was worried about driving my car to work for this particular reason, but really have found it to be a non-issue.
And nobody, that I'm aware, has been jealous. Most are congratulatory. Few people ask how much it is, and those who ask I tell them that it starts in the 50's. If they ask about mine I say (honestly) about 90. They have eyes to see with, they have usually asked about the range, so it's super easy to look up the price on the Internet anyway. Might as well just say it up front. Being coy was never my strong suite...
My neighbor (drunk of his ass at the time, but still) blurted out "you know what, good for you!" and went on with a bunch of why-nots, you worked hard, you deserve it, etc. (And he thoroughly enjoyed his test ride.)�
Jan 31, 2013
smorgasbord Well, that saying is not only so 19th century, you're misapplying it.
First, today everyone knows what you paid for your house AND what it's worth today. Thank Zillow for that. And anyone can easily find out what a car (or any manufactured commodity) costs with a simple search. Your resistance only hides things from people that are too lazy to find out for themselves.
Second, that saying applies to what you earn, not what the things you buy that you take out in public cost.
Most people asking what a Model S costs are interested to know in case they might want to buy one. They're not passing judgement on you. And if they're are passing judgement, then what do you care?
I completely judge people who judge people based on how much money they earn/spend.�
Jan 31, 2013
Jaff I usually just deflect comments like these by saying (to the effect) that "it's financed over 7 years and the bank will lend money to anyone who can fog up a mirror"...
If they keep pressing, I just state the range from about $60 to $120k...this is the way I handled such inquiries about the Roadster....
�
Jan 31, 2013
andrewket I had the electrician who was installing the 14-50's in my garage ask me how much the car cost. I'll admit I wasn't prepared for the question. I ended up saying "a lot, but I'll save money on gas."
A�
Jan 31, 2013
ElSupreme You aren't kidding on that. I got my loan through my bank. Who I also have a mortgage with. When I went in to close my loan I kept getting asked if I wanted to buy 2 cars, or another house? And she was deadly serious! Which baffled me because they should have seen how much of my income would be dedicated to payments back to them. And if they looked at my banking accounts they would see that I would be paying them more than I deposit*.
* I have two banks and split my paycheck between 4 accounts. Don't ask but there is a method to my system, ... (i think, i could just be crazy).�
Jan 31, 2013
richkae Why not just say: "It costs about as much to own as a <blank>" and then fill in the blank with an appropriate vehicle for your audience. You can pick just about any ICE car that costs $20000 less. I would usually say "It costs about as much to own as a BMW 5 series."
Because then you lead in to the TCO discussion and how much 100000 miles of fuel will cost you in the long run, which is what is important anyway.
If someone is asking you about the price, and what they really want to know is if they can afford one, you need them to think about TCO and not sticker price.�
Jan 31, 2013
Jaff Agree with you 100% on this El...the Model S is a good car that is affordable for middle class to UMC folks ...no one should be apologetic for the fiscal benefits of hard work and risked capital, despite what the media and socialists think.
�
Jan 31, 2013
gregincal Even the sticker price is very comparable to 5 series (once you've deducted the tax credit for the S). A fully loaded 550i is 82K and a loaded non-perf is 92K. The M5 is 90-105K and the S perf is 88-104K. Since the base price for the 5 series is 48K it captures the range very nicely.�
Jan 31, 2013
anticitizen13.7 I don't own a Tesla... yet. But if I was fortunate enough to own a Model S, I would also not be shy about discussing both the initial cost and the total cost of ownership. It's a good chance to let people know the benefits of EVs: substantial savings on money spent on fuel & low level of required maintenance.
That's tough. If someone gave me a hard time about a Tesla for "political" reasons, I'd probably turn the tables on them, and ask why they were attacking capitalism, entrepreneurship, innovation, American manufacturing, and wealth. Then I'd ask them if they thought they had the right to tell me how I spent the money I earned.�
Jan 31, 2013
FlasherZ I spent a good amount of time rehearsing my responses to those types of criticisms when Liz and I were showing our cars at the St. Louis Auto Show. I got the usual handful of haters but most people were willing to listen. One guy was incorrigible about solar companies sucking off the teat of the government, yadda yadda, and I just basically had to step away from him and let him vent and move on. Another gentleman came up and said "is this the car company Obama gave all the free money to that makes them overseas?" I had to correct him that no -- that was Fisker -- that these Model S's were born in California, that the government assistance was a low-rate loan that was being paid back faster than expected, and that Tesla was putting 3,000 people in California to work. That shut him up and made him ask about the car!�
Jan 31, 2013
Velo1 I had a friend ask "how much", to which I replied 100%. He seemed satisfied or got the message.�
Jan 31, 2013
strider I say that it follows BMW 5-series pricing. It starts at $50K and goes up to $100K depending on performance, same as a 5-series.�
Jan 31, 2013
Rodolfo Paiz More accurate would be to compare the regular MS with a 535 GT (Gran Turismo), which is also a four-door with a hatchback. That model has a 2011 base price of $53K, and a fully-loaded price of $84K or so... and it's probably gone up in the last two years since we bought it. It's exactly the same price range, and even the dimensions are all within six inches of each other.
On the whole asking/telling thing, I'm not shy about discussing prices. Because my ideal goal is to educate, I start out with the "base $50K" comment and show how it's superior to ICEs in every way I can think of. But I do note that larger batteries mean longer range, and that batteries or options or performance can push it up to about $100K. I mention that it's priced comparably to a BMW 5-series and how amazing it is that Tesla's first production electric car came in that cheap. I'll keep talking Tesla as long as they'll let me. But if someone asks how much mine cost, I tell them.�
Jan 31, 2013
Arnold Panz I have had plenty of "haters" who ask about the "Obama loans" (actually, the program is from a law passed in 2007), and generally thinking I'm a tree-hugging enviro-commie for buying an EV. My response is always the same -- whether your issue is the environment, national security or the funding of America's enemies, there is no good reason not to love EVs. I point out that every time they fill up their gas tank, they are (indirectly) giving money to some of the worst regimes in the world. We might not buy oil directly from Iran, for example, but the price of a barrel of oil is set globally, so demand from the US only increases prices for everyone who exports tons of oil (Iran, Russia, Venezuela, Syria etc. etc.).
I had one right-wing friend, who is absolutely convinced that global warming is a giant hoax perpetrated by Al Gore, tell me that he hates environmentalists so much that he'd never thought about this aspect of our use of oil, and he was going to look into a hybrid or EV for his next car! Even (or especially) in deep, dark red Nebraska (and other places like it), these arguments work because they're easy to understand and 100% right on the merits. This is why Tesla has done a remarkably good job of not being seen as a particularly environmental company -- they want to appeal to everyone left and right and in between, and there's good reason for everyone to support them.�
Jan 31, 2013
aronth5 As someone who is waiting for the Gen3 I wonder how many people will be asking how much it costs?
I bet the question will come up frequently even 3-4 years from now.
I'm still waiting to see my first MS in the wild and will be sure not to ask how much it costs. It will be much
for fun to ask what firmware version they are using:smile:�
Jan 31, 2013
Nikoli The first rule is don't talk about it. The second rule is don't talk about it. At least that's how I'm trying to cope, and no eye contact.�
Jan 31, 2013
Sigma4Life I just tell them the truth and let them hate.�
Jan 31, 2013
toto_48313 I usually say that I place my order in march 2009 when I was about to change my 2002 Saab 9.5 that I finally kept until I got my model S. So my old 40,000$ car last 4 more years than initially plan, and I had those 4 years to save enough to buy the MS.
On the top of that, now I'm starting saving on gas, so buying it make me save money since I place my reservation.�
Jan 31, 2013
toto_48313 another answer for those asking for the price of the CAR, my answer is: Car? I just bought a computer that have wheels..." and they usually doesn't come back to the price question.�
Jan 31, 2013
bonnie mod note: some posts have been moved to snippiness . If you were an innocent bystander and got moved with the rest, well ... be careful who you hang out with.
- end of public service announcement, please carry on -�
Jan 31, 2013
SCW-Greg Thanks Bonnie.
My last answer eluded to staying above any snippiness you might encounter, answering the public with class (hopefully). I want to help Tesla succeed, for many reasons, one of which so ill have a place to get it serviced in 5 years. So I try to act as an ambassador for them.
Like ElSupreme' s signature suggests.�
Feb 1, 2013
AustinPowers Really? Come over here for a change. We talk about car prices all the time. No big deal really. Perhaps Germans are more car-crazy (which I doubt) or more relaxed about such things (which I doubt even more), but I for example know the exact prices my colleagues, neighbours and friends paid for their cars as they do the price of mine. What is the problem of telling someone the car cost 90K Euro? They will either say "wow, great car, I knew it would be expensive" or "phew, EV or not, that is too much for my liking". Upon which you can start explaining about savings in energy etc. Or you can just leave it at that. And in the unlikely event that they have money to burn they might even say "hey, that sounds like a bargain" ;-)
I have always encountered Americans as very open and friendly, even if they didn't know me at all. Far more relaxed than us Germans. Are some really so uptight like you describe/infer when it comes to talking about something as generic as car prices?�
Feb 1, 2013
Kaivball I usually say it was cheaper than my Ferrari...
�
Feb 1, 2013
Kaivball Well, man made global warming is a hoax but that's a subject for another thread.
I think the issue is that the government shouldn't be in the business of funding private companies, period.
Solyndra, disaster.
A123, disaster.
Fisker, disaster.
Billions of tax payer money wasted.
But that's also a subject of another thread
In general, the right answer is to say the car ranges from 50k to 100k.
The novice can't tell them apart anyway.�
Feb 1, 2013
yobigd20 Agreed here. This was my scenario. My previous car before the S that I just got rid of was a Range Rover Evoque Dynamic. I think the final cost including taxes was around $57,000. I had put $5k down and had a loan for around $52k 2.75% for 60 months - payment was $937/month. I do 90% highway driving, and the Evoque was rated 28mpg. I drive roughly 3000 miles/month. The ACTUAL mileage I got from the Evoque was about 20mpg (side note: that really ticked me off). At $4/gallon for premium fuel, I was spending $600+/month on gas. Now my cost per month was $937+$600=$1537.
Now lets look at the total monthly cost for the Model S. For me, where I park daily has free charging. I will most likely charge there, not at home (when the mobile app is out, I'll probably set it up to slightly charge/warm up the vehicle right before I leave every morning). So essentially, "fuel is free". Total cost for my pretty much loaded P85 is $103k (no EV sales tax in NJ). Lets assume I put no more money down besides the $5k reservation, so I finance $98000. If I go for a 72 month loan (I know, not exactly apples to apples), but I think it's relatively easy to get a 72 month loan at 2.49%. That monthly cost is now $1466, cheaper than what I was paying for the Evoque. I could also probably do an 84 month loan at 3.49%, That's now around $1316/month. Not bad for a car that costs almost double what the Evoque was costing me. (side note: I'd love to see if I could get that lower, anybody know any banks offering good 84 month loans?)
This doesn't even take into account that I won't be needing to pay for oil changes or brakes either and the myriad of parts on an ICE car that could break that I no longer need to worry about. Even if I do the same 60 month loan, while total monthly price would be slightly more, I'll still save a TON over the life of the vehicle (and I plan on having it at least 10 years).
My point is simple - for me, ESPECIALLY TCO over time, even though the Model S is almost double in price what the Range Rover was, the total cost of ownership is actually A LOT cheaper. THAT is how I can afford a $100k car. I mean come on, price of the Evoque +$7200/year every year I owned that car? Over 10 years that's $57k+$72k=$129k. LOL. Ridiculous. (besides, the Range Rover would NEVER last that long anyway, so I'd have to buy a new car there too before end of 10 years haha.) And all this still doesn't even factor in the $7500 fed rebate or the home charger rebate either, so really the savings are even more than I've pointed out above.�
Feb 1, 2013
Trev Page Wow, this kind of thing is still going on? I'm in Canada and I can assure you that would NEVER happen. The banks and tight-wads with debt-service ratios and adverse to all risks. I'd love to have a Model S and I talk about the car all the time but reality sets in that we'll only be comfortable with a GenIII price range when they come out in a few years.�
Feb 1, 2013
kinddog whatever... the government has been subsidizing businesses and industries for the past century. the internet wouldn't exist without government subsidies for the small businesses who helped get it off the ground. most pharmaceutical advances too. ever heard of Lockheed Martin? Northrop Grumman? think they don't get any government money (that is NOT paid back, unlike Tesla?).�
Feb 1, 2013
bonnie Mod Note: Let's keep the politics off the thread, guys. I'm not in the mood to be moving posts.
�
Feb 1, 2013
jhs_7645 ^This
I think it's important to be honest and very matter of fact about the price range of the Model S as it can be purchased from Tesla, as well as discussing Tesla's plans for future lower cost cars, but not your specific car. It assumes the best (people are asking because they might want to know if it is something they could possibly afford). I've never had anybody push it past that and ask how much *my* specific car cost. I personally don't consider it rude to ask how much the cars cost in general, but I do think it's rude to ask how much I paid for the car.�
Feb 1, 2013
sp4rk Not sure I can without sneaking a peek at a VIN and referring to my cheat sheet ...
Only tell tale sign is "Signature" Red ... and with mine I may even fool a few of my "peers".�
Feb 1, 2013
scriptacus To be fair, don't you need to count loan interest in your TCO? The $98k/84mo @ 3.49% adds over $23k... The $52k/60mo @ 2.75% only adds just over $7k. That puts the MS only about $9k cheaper over 10 years, instead of $26k. In this case (long term loan) the higher up front cost for a more expensive vehicle isn't necessarily as cheap as it might seem.
That said, there are a lot more factors to consider ($600/yr maintenance, battery replacement, rising gas costs, etc...) that make it difficult to calculate the true TCO. In the end I think it makes to most sense to just buy what you can afford, and whatever makes you happy. For me that's pretty clearly the MS.�
Feb 1, 2013
ModelS1079 Answers I like and will borrow upon:
This answer addresses our desire to share the value of owning our Model S without being pimped to show our wallet:
- - - Updated - - -
That is Art. Brilliant.
- - - Updated - - -
This works well. Is accurate and let's the friend, relative and potential Tesla owner start to think about the fact that maybe they could actually buy one. If they can...
Reading this thread reminded me, though: isn't this just the greatest car to own? Lucky I am. What a blast.�
Feb 1, 2013
shady Another option:
Stranger: Nice car!
Me: Thanks
Stranger: How much did you pay for it?
Me: Ah, you want to know if you can afford one don't you?, it's not surprising. How much do you make a year?�
Feb 1, 2013
LonePalmBJ I'm a newly minted Model S reservation holder (new as in yesterday) but my current ride is a Fisker Karma. I get the question all of the time, and it's very awkward. Unlike the Model S, the price range for the Fisker is much narrower, starting at 103K and topping out around 120K with all of the boxes checked. I haven't yet found a graceful way to answer, so my reply is typically "don't ask" if I can get away with it, or "about a hundred" if I can't and then let it drop. I don't bother trying to talk about tax incentives or gasoline savings. The fact is, you don't buy a Karma, or a P-85 S for that matter, to save money. The people who ask "how much", especially as their first question, usually aren't interested in any of my real drivers: Cool technology, supporting a new company trying to do something hard, environmental responsiveness, design, the cool factor, scarcity, reducing dependence on foreign oil, etc...
I think I'm switching to the Ferris Bueller response though.
Brent
//First post. Be Gentle.�
Feb 1, 2013
Lloyd I just tell them that this model starts at $52K after credits, and give them the website. That seems to keep most happy and should increase the traffic to the Tesla site!�
Feb 1, 2013
hans ... "it's a bargain at twice the price! I love it."�
Feb 1, 2013
Krugerrand How you feel about being asked and how you answer is based upon your personal perception of money, how you think the world perceives you, how you think the world perceives money, if you or your family struggled financially, if they didn't, current or past hard times, easy times and things of that nature.
Point being, there's no right or wrong answer, but if you're uncomfortable then you might want to consider why that is and perhaps change your thought process since clearly it's a question people are going to ask.�
Feb 1, 2013
carrerascott "It's cost me many, many hours of hard work."�
Feb 1, 2013
mlascano Welcome to TMC, LonePalmBJ.
When it comes to the price question, I am with those who give a straight answer: I tell them 50 to ~100K, point them to the website, and if I sense they are interested in the technology I even expand on the 10K jumps from one battery pack level to another plus the perf option, and go into the whole TCO discussion. "Comparable to the BMW 5 series" also comes across nicely if I don't have time to expand, plus I give them the website.�
Feb 1, 2013
hans
I like that one. I'm gonna use that.�
Feb 1, 2013
kinddog
great first post! thanks for sharing.
good to have Fisker folks here. with the Karma being even more exotic looking, and higher in price, i can definitely imagine it must have been worse.�
Feb 1, 2013
HFh My students in my class asked me that and I said, "I'd tell you but I want you to like me."
I did get someone asking me that at a stop light after I told him everything about the car. His response was unprintable.�
Feb 1, 2013
Larry Chanin As a founder of a Tesla club I sometime get questions from prospective members essentially asking me to talk them into pulling the trigger. Sometimes the person will ask what I paid, and even ask how I went about paying for it. If asked I will answer them directly, regardless if it is considered rude.
Despite being one of Tesla's biggest fans I really don't play car salesman and I don't try to minimize the fact that this is an expensive car. I never try to make value judgments for others. I just let them know my personal perspective.
I tell them that I consider the extra money I spent over competing ICE vehicles as a contribution to a worthy cause, coupled with the indulgence of a guilty pleasure.
Larry�
Feb 1, 2013
Orthonos For those who are calling it a rude question, I disagree even if I do find it slightly awkward. If someone is pressing for the cost of yours I would consider it rude/gauche, but pretty much everyone I speak with are interested in the general answer - usually because they are now intrigued and are thinking "Hmmm, very cool, maybe..." I usually answer "It starts at 67 thousand (Canada); it's set to compete with BMW 5 and 7 series" which gives them a reference and ballpark. They are generally happy with this.�
Feb 1, 2013
lightly I haven't even gotten mine yet and people ask me all the time when am I getting my Tesla and how much will it cost? Including my employees which is awkward.
I've used many of the explanations previously stated like "Well without the cost of gas & maintenance it can be affordable..." or "starts at $50K but Gen III will be in the 30's" and "buying it with Nana's inheritance....."
But when I get the car in two weeks I can't wait to wave my hand and say "These aren't the droids your looking for"
Well it worked for Obi-Wan...:wink:�
Feb 1, 2013
yobigd20 Well I'm glad you're not my financial advisor. Your math is WAY off. That would only be $12.5k in interest, not $23k.
I understand what you're saying though. But soon Lithium Ion batteries will be a fraction of what they cost now (especially after the fed's commitment to lowering these battery costs announced this week), and seeing that gas will probably cost triple in 10 years closer to $11-$15/gallon (fyi gas is already over $11/gallon in Europe if you weren't aware of that, it's only a matter of time because it reaches that level here), the TCO of an EV is not just tipping but rather landsliding over to being sooo much cheaper than ICE over the years.�
Feb 1, 2013
brianman Ooh, I like this one. "Roughly 11k man-hours. But I make better than minimum wage, so somewhat less."�
Feb 1, 2013
scriptacus My bad, the random loan interest calculator I googled appears to just be way off. (Simple Loan Interest Calculator). There's still a $9k difference in interest between the two loans though.
I hope you're right about battery prices, because the current costs eat up a pretty significant portion of the gas savings. I also imagine EVs will be subject to some form of highway use tax in the coming years since current gas taxes fund much of the highway infrastructure.�
Feb 2, 2013
hans "I got a great deal on it. I got them to throw in free gas...for life!"�
Feb 2, 2013
johnnyS Someone asked about my electricity bill. I mentioned that Chevron stopped sending me bills the month after the model S came. When I asked I say it starts in the 50s and goes up but there is a California rebate and federal tax credit and no worries about gas costs. If I keep the car long enough it will save us money
- - - Updated - - -�
Feb 2, 2013
hans I always put this one into perspective. "I used to spend about $XXX / month on gas, and now I spend about $YY on electricity". It gets the thought process going on just how much we spend on gas over the lifetime of a car.�
Feb 2, 2013
ItsNotAboutTheMoney Gas is not $11/gallon in Europe. Gas plus gas taxes are $11/gal in Europe. There is a HUGE difference between the effects of the two.
There's really only 1 way that US gas prices could rise that high in 10 years and that's a fundamental technology improvement in nanotechnology manufacture in next couple of years that would allow multiple dramatic improvements in energy technology that would allow a high price. Quite simply, the global economy is so dependent on petroleum that there is effectively a price cap because a high price sends the world into recession, lowers demand and causes the price to fall. Only a shift away from petroleum in key sectors would allow the price to rise without bringing down the world economy. Besides, petroleum prices are already high enough that use of GTL technology is expanding.�
Feb 2, 2013
Daniel Scherer I commute 20,000 miles per/year for work and get mileage reimbursement. Between that and the fuel cost difference from my prior vehicle, the difference is making my monthly car payment. I'm also holding Tesla stock which I hope will make it to about $250 per/share so I can get a couple more Tesla's by 2016. I'm a Fleet Maintenance Manager with a major retailer with 350 truck drivers. Every single one of them has stopped by to see the car and they love it. They understand my math and motivation and say its cool! Several company executives have come to see me with their Audi's and MB's. My company has installed 4 separate 14-50 outlets for me at our various Distribution Centers and are allowing me to plug in at no charge.�
Feb 3, 2013
blakegallagher Here is a crazy idea ... maybe the guy asking how much is set you back is interested in buying one .... heres another crazy shocker ... maybe he was brought up that it was not rude to talk about money .... maybe thats ok and it does not make your parents better than his .... maybe some people would think your upbringing was antiquated and your uptight attitude about sharing price info is only turning people off to Tesla because it makes you look like snob ..... then again ... maybe not ...�
Feb 3, 2013
Al Sherman Yeah. I grew up in a family that asked "how much?" on everything from a candy bar to a car. My wife who comes from a totally different background thinks this is somewhat "unusual" and finds it very amusing. We've even made a game out of it when my parents come to visit. Counting how many times we hear the question. What I've learned is that people who do this can have so, so, so many different reasons for asking. Their own pathetic lives not withstanding. :smile:�
Feb 3, 2013
Trnsl8r Sir, you got reputation points from me for that one.
I know this is a cultural difference to some extent, but consider how much efforts many of you go through just trying to think of ways of getting out of the question (such as reading 11 pages of forum answers), is it worth it? To reiterate, here's what I do:
- How much are those?
- They start in the upper 50's.
- How much was yours?
- I have most of the options, so 90.
Done. Then we can go on about GenIII, range, superchargers, tax incentives, etc. What I have found is that most people that go through this Q&A are genuinely interested in the car and how much it is - they're not interested in me (yeah, disappointing, I know), not how much I make, not how I was able to pay for it. And I do the same thing myself about other things such as houses, trips, whatever, because I try to stay informed and up-to-date.
Give askers the benefit of a doubt... I have yet to run into jealousy. Closest I got was an old buddy that just looked at me and said with a smirk and soft voice "you f---er", but that's just how we talk.�
Feb 3, 2013
kinddog ouch, Blake. very ouch... :redface:�
Feb 3, 2013
Elshout I tell them what it cost, most are somewhat surprised at the amount, then I thank them for providing part of the $7,500 Federal tax credit and if they live in California I thank them for contributing to the $2,500 check I received recently.�
Feb 3, 2013
dsm363 I tell people who complain about the $7,500 that it is $7,500 dollars of my money I am not sending in, not taking money from them.�
Feb 3, 2013
rlawson4 I tell people my tax dollars are paying for 2 Aircraft Carrier Battle groups in the Gulf protecting the oil supply and 7000 dead Americans and 50000 plus wounded Americans and almost 2 Trillion Dollars and it shuts most people up.�
Feb 3, 2013
Kaivball I tell people if they are part of the 47% they need to shut up.
Just kidding.�
Feb 3, 2013
kinddog nicely done. permission to use...�
Feb 3, 2013
Psullivan I am amazed how often I am asked this question and coming from just driving 2 Honda Accords over the last 20 years it was a bit hard to get used to. My new answer for my Sig Red with almost everything in it is:
It is over $100K but this is my mid-life crisis. It is much cheaper than a divorce.�
Feb 3, 2013
rlawson4 Anytime. I usually say it when questioned about the tax credit.�
Feb 3, 2013
bonnie I should mention that several neanderthals, after asking the awkward question of 'so how much is it?', then have asked first if it's my husband's car, quickly followed by 'so do you work for Tesla?'. My answer is typically, 'no, why?'. With a subtle snort.
One young guy, waiting for the owner of the Tesla outside of Whole Foods, asked all sorts of questions about the car, then said, 'So you're not who I expected to come out to this car.' Oh? 'Yeah, I thought it would be a guy and someone ummm much ummm ...'. Right. Not older and female. He's going to go far in life!
Yes, really.�
Feb 3, 2013
brianman A few thoughts on the above:
1. Fun convertible sometimes is automatically associated with "male mid-life crisis".
2. Automotive enthusiasm is generally more male dominated in terms of numbers.
3. I have yet to see a post on this forum of a wife trying to convince her husband why she's not crazy for wanting a Tesla. We frequently see the reverse.
So this doesn't surprise me in the least.�
Feb 3, 2013
bonnie A Tesla is a cure for a mid-life crisis, not a symptom.�
Feb 3, 2013
Kaivball Lol
�
Feb 4, 2013
ElSupreme I did a little song and dance with my Tesla after the Super Bowl last night. Was my 11th in a row at the same party. Had a bunch of college friends there. I did the little starts at $60k. I got the $85k version. Got all the 'rob a bank' jokes. But my one friend, the accountant, did my justification for me. Good job, hard work, smart (they all know that one) no kids, and 'cheap' house = Disposible income. And that it really wasn't all that of a stretch to actually purchase one. Then I looked around and everyone there (except one unmarried friend) had kid(s) or a kid on the way.
Throw in the fact that I get $12.5k back in rebates, and I save ~$300 a month in fuel, and I made a 'car payment' for ~3 years to a savings account, they all sort of lit up. I don't expect any of them to go out and buy one tomorrow. But they all got the picture.�
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