Mar 18, 2012
Larry Chanin We put fold-up umbrellas in the door pockets and yes, the little woman uses her passenger side pocket also as a trash can.
I agreed that there is not time to fix this, especially for the Signature reservation holders. I foresee that there will be an up-tick in defections as some of the early adopters realize that soon it will be time to shell out a lot more dough than they have ever considered in the past. These folks will blame the lack of interior storage space for their decision to get back their deposit.
Once we get past the initial ranks of rabid EV enthusiasts and early adopters, and rely on well-healed, "normal" folks to purchase the Model S, if they don't have the necessary bragging rights for the interior to show their rich friends, then they simply won't buy it. This lack of intelligently designed interior storage space is a very serious issue "down the road" when Tesla is attempting to sell more than 20,000 cars per year. The same issue will apply to the Model X when they try to hit their 15,000 planned cars per year.
Larry�
Mar 18, 2012
AnOutsider I agree, except I think it won't only be the rich, it'll be those buying up from their usual price class that can't justify spending more for something that they may perceive as less.�
Mar 18, 2012
Larry Chanin I guess "rich" is a relative term. :smile:
Yes, the point I was making is that many folks that are not EV enthusiasts who purchase a car over $50,000 are dealing with the "show-off" factor. As you point out this is particularly true for folks stretching their budgets. When showing their high priced car to their friends ideally they want to be able to demonstrate how superior the car is in all respects to justify their expediture. They don't want to hear their friends saying, "Yes, very nice, but where do you store your sunglasses? My much less expensive car has interior storage for my stuff."
Larry�
Mar 18, 2012
Charged_Up Larry....
It's not just the show off factor- some of us intend to keep the car for a long time - and good industrial design is a combination of good looks, new features, and useability. I remember my first car- a red Honda accord - came in only three colors and was pretty spartan. But it had a dedicated pocket for change and some wonderful ergonomics in the interior compared to similar u.s. cars. Andvofvcourse it was about $4100 with options.
Tesla has just missed the mark in usability in the interior, some of which can be remedied in aftermarket - but why should it have to be? I put up $$ for a sig reservation and it turns out that the benefits disclosed so far are that I get to pay a premium for a similarly equipped p model - I may not get an option to test drive the car before spending $100k, and I get to spend additional money to fix a couple of stupidly basic design flaws In the interior (is it really possible that the engineer who designed the armrest/cup holder actually sat in the car???). But If I keep the reservation, I get to be a functional beta tester for $100k. That wasn't really what I was thinking about when I made my reservation.
Do I admire what tesla is trying to do? Absolutely. Do I love the idea of electric cars and the benefits to society ? Absolutely. Am I overjoyed at the "customer experience" so far and the communications from the company? Absolutely not.�
Mar 18, 2012
MitchL Hmm. I _am_ overjoyed by the customer experience so far and the communications (then again, I haven't been waiting as long as many of you... and I'm sure you super early folks feel like you've been waiting a lifetime).
I think it's absolutely crazy that Tesla not only shows pictures of prototype cars to customers (and competitors), but also puts them in dealerships and lets people sit in them and play with them, even though they're not done.
I'm trying to remember the last time I got to actually tinker with a prototype from the Big 3, or any of the European or Japanese manufacturers...
Showing their cards so early is a risky move on Tesla's part, but it also helps keep the interest and excitement going at the risk of showing things that many people would conclude are sub-par. They're hoping we will understand.
Having the privilege of watching a prototype evolve into a product is (from my point of view) excellent communication. I hope that Tesla learns a lot watching us hash out our observations and desires. Tesla is trying very hard, I'm sure, to balance what their dreams are with what they can actually build, right now, on time and on budget, and show the shareholders and the board that they really can build a car. The 2013, 2014, 2015 Model S will undoubtably have features that didn't make it into 2012.
Getting back on topic: I voted "I don't care." I'm tired of trying to decide if I "like" the console or not (my Odyssey doesn't have one, the wife's RX300 does), so I give up on fretting over it. I want a _real_ car that happens to be electric, something I can replace 90% of my driving with. I am confident that I will get a real electric car whether or not I have a place to keep my sunglasses when the car is delivered to me.
/Mitch.�
Mar 18, 2012
dsm363 Not really a fair comparison since it's way out of the Model S price range but just got into my Jetta for the first time in a long time and looked at the console. It does have places on the doors for maps but the center console has a small cubby hole area like the Roadster does (I assume where the ash tray used to go) and a very small space in the arm rest which I hear the Model S doesn't have. It should be relatively trivial for the Model S to at least add a small area towards the front of the console space to place items in at least.
I agree with Mitch. No other company would give people this much access to the process. I've been very pleased with Tesla so far. While I don't agree with all of their decisions, I think the Model S will be a great first step.�
Mar 18, 2012
Kipernicus I also noticed that the lower dash to the left of the steering wheel was completely blank - no switches, no storage. Perhaps that area is jam packed with electronics, but if not, that would be a nice inconspicuous place for a junk drawer or sunglass cubby.
This morning my wife had to drive her sister and parents to the airport. Since there was no space up front for her purse, she put it in the back seat. At the airport her mom left with my wife's purse, thinking it was the sister's! I thought if she were in the S and put her purse in the center console space this would never have happened! (luckily she was boxed in by a taxi and her mom ran back to return the purse)�
Mar 18, 2012
Larry Chanin Hi,
I certainly appreciate your point of view in particular since you had more at risk being an early Signature reservation holder. Please refer to my posting in the "The Big Picture" thread on the official Tesla forum which attempts to suggest that there might reason to hope for a more positive outcome for early Signature reservation holders.
Larry�
Mar 18, 2012
Charged_Up Larry...
I don't mean to be over the top on this - I'm still interested, but getting somewhat frustrated - each time I've chatted with Tesla they express interest, ask permission to kick my suggestion upstairs, and then that's the last I ever hear of it. Now we're getting reports that people are being asked to finalize orders etc and a) nobody's driven the car, b) nobody has definitively said "here is what we're doing about the interior issues that have been raised"; c) we've heard zero about safety tests or rc vehicles and, d) its getting hard to believe they will meet their timetable. I've always said in our business (and its true in most) that the one thing that drives customers or prospects crazy is a lack of communication - sometimes it can be sufficient for someone to say - "look, we are aware of your questions, we're working on answers; and we should be able to tell you by xx/xx/xx." Look at the product manager who says, "we're not changing the floor tray" and five minutes later George B says, "well we may offer something later" - someone would appear to be wrong - but who? Look at design studio - "coming this winter" - don't you think Tesla should have put out a notice to people saying "guys, our software guys screwed up, we are a little behind in finalizing interior configurations, and we should have a fully configured website up and running no later than April 1" or whenever. I don't mind attempts to underpromise and overdeliver - we do that all the time. It just feels like they are dribbling out information because it is a mass of confusion internally and maybe nobody really knows? I just feel like Tesla is asking early adopters to take a leap of faith, which is okay at a much lower and much less ambitious price point. But when you are trying to pull customers from Mercedes, BMW, Audi, etc, and at a *higher* price point, you would think that you would really be making efforts to communicate your successes and failures - and that's where my "irked" factor is coming from....�
Mar 18, 2012
bonnie Hot topic.
�
Mar 18, 2012
NigelM I had a feeling it was and that's why I started this thread/poll. I want a family EV and that is over-riding for me; but Tesla also needs to recognize that they are pulling many customers from other marques and so need to decide which issues they will address (or not). Tesla will get a lot of people to make major changes in their driving habits, there's some seemingly "small" issues that can have a big impact on people's habits and therefore their acceptance of the Model S.
P.S. Is that pic: a) part of your new product line? b) Tesla employees after reading TMC for too long? c) a new silicon valley game/sport? or d) a new interrogation technique?�
Mar 18, 2012
bonnie (Tesla employees after reading this thread.)�
Mar 18, 2012
AnOutsider I'm not even sure where to begin with this... Roadster owners may have paid more and had to take a bigger leap of faith. There are only RUMORS that people are being asked to finalize, and if they are true they're founders whom likely have way more info than we do. As for dribbling out info, we have WAY more info than pre orderers of the leaf or any other car by most major manufacturers. Not sure what safety and RC vehicles have to do with the interior discussion, but considering the last estimate we got was that RCs would come I'm April, I don't get the gripe.
I think Tesla has been way more open and communicative than any other car manufacturer I've ever dealt with. I think there's just a lot of antsy-ness (crankiness?) going on here (which seems to be typical after every time new info gets posted). Take a step back and look at the bigger picture.�
Mar 18, 2012
bonnie Amen. My personal experience has been that Tesla comes through on commitments to their customers.�
Mar 18, 2012
dsm363 Their service has been excellent. I can't think of another company where I've been able to e-mail a person I know (not a generic customer service e-mail) and get a response in hours to a day at most.
I agree. At least let them release their release candidate and what their plans are for accessories for the center console area (maybe you'll get to pick one for free, who knows at this point) before things go off the rails any further.�
Mar 18, 2012
Charged_Up Well, maybe I am just having a bad hair day. It happens.
But something inside my little brain says there is something wrong with communications when I go from feeling thrilled at having one of the first electric "luxury" sedans to feeling like maybe I'm going to end of deferring my slot because of a lack of information. Even worse is where my excitement and desire to be evangelical with others about electrics and Tesla in general is waning - and that should be a direct shot across the bow to the company because I am not typically a "first adopter of tech (early-yes, first-no) and I am willing to pay up for something "close" to the feeling of a true luxury vehicle in electric form. Believe me when I say at this price the Model S Signature is not an economic decision particularly because i don't drive that much these days - it's a lifestyle issue, a national security issue, an environmental issue - all of those things. It's just that nobody wants to feel sandbagged when Tesla's goal from the beginning was to say we can do it as well as the big boys in Germany in all aspects, and with a much better drivetrain. So I guess I am saying that I'm just not getting enough hugs - or something metaphorically similar - from the big T.�
Mar 18, 2012
bonnie It's hard to maintain the same level of excitement that was generated at the Model S event. And it's been a long wait. Hang in there.�
Mar 18, 2012
gg_got_a_tesla We might all be suffering from 'overexposure' in general; I know, we are all so involved probably with good reason - high-priced car, startup company, new technology, new factory and so on.
I need to get away from TMC for a few days myself; wife's getting super-annoyed
�
Mar 19, 2012
Lyon I'm going to have to abstain on this one. Unfortunately, just like a poll going on at the official TM forum, this poll leaves out an important 3rd option. I love the open center console idea, however, the fact that Model S has NO enclosed interior storage area that's within easy reach of the driver (sorry, I don't count the glovebox) I would like to see some kind of redesign. I'm left wanting A and B.
As I said over there, I don't think that the options have to be mutually exclusive.
On the TM forum I added an option C and then got yelled at for it. In any event, the format of the poll here makes it more difficult to add another option.�
Mar 19, 2012
Doug_G As I've said before, I prefer the large open storage area. I think it'll be very handy. It will be the place where we will throw miscellaneous things we're carrying like takeout food containers, small purchases, etc. My wife will put a Kleenex box in there, so I'll probably find a black plastic one and Velcro it down to the carpet. I might even Velcro a little trash bin in there.
That said, there are a few things that are really needed (and a comparison my two existing cars):
- A convenient holder for sunglasses. I can't be reaching down next to my feet to find my glasses that have rolled around somewhere in the bin. [In my Roadster I can reach the glove compartment easily - not so in the Model S. My G37 has a flip-down glasses holder up by the sunroof - works very well.]
- A handy little bin to hold change for tolls (for road trips into the USA). It needs to be shallow and wide enough that you can pick up the change. [Big fail on my G37 - has appropriate nooks but you can't get the coins out of them. Roadster is better but you'd have to really control your right foot or they'll be permanently lost under the seat...]
- Better cup holders. The Model S console cup holders look too high and too far back - I have a feeling that acrobatics will be required to pick up your drink. They're also too close together; you won't be able to fit two Starbucks Venti drinks in there without them interfering (yes we are addicts). [Complete fail on the Roadster of course; better positioning on the G37 but also too close together.]
Mind you, I don't recall ever driving a car that succeeded on all three of these very basic items. I think my old Nissan Murano was the closest; the cup holders were great and it also had the sunglasses holder. It also had a couple of big open storage areas on top of the dashboard (of all places) and despite being shallow they were very handy. That's why I'm very open to the big bin.�
Mar 19, 2012
Larry Chanin Hi,
I'm reposting what was posted by a reservation holder yesterday on the official Tesla forum.
Larry�
Mar 19, 2012
Larry Chanin I'm hoping that the reason Geoge is discussing this as a Signature option is because there isn't sufficient time to design and test this retrofit for some Signature reservation holders. By the time we get to deliveries for General Production reservation holders, I'm hoping that this redesigned center console will be a standard option with no retrofitting being needed.
Larry�
Mar 19, 2012
Denis Vinnie With regards to a Center Console, I for one don't have a pusse, never have, never will. However, if I did, I would want to stow it and/or, any other items, laptop, sunglasses, wallet ect. in a secured compartment out of sight (and mind) from would be robbers and vandals that would cause $$$$$ worth of damage breaking in to steal them. Since a transmission(automatic/standard) tunnel and its mecahnical user interface are obsolete in a Tesla, ashtray/ lighter are no longer needed, the unsually deep and wide space between the driver and passenger seats provide for a well designed, ergonomic "form follows function" center console that could be secured by the remote keyless/fob making entry available only to the owner or designated driver. No amount of cognitive dissonance can justify leaving this most convenient, accessible and expansive space unsecured and unutilized, a compartment that would be ideal for a purse, laptop, glasses(sun and otherwise) and valuables. I'm not interested in some low' buck yuck' aftermarket console for my $100,000 vehicle.�
Mar 19, 2012
Norbert
Since you mention "Velcro", I'm thinking of (even if Tesla comes up with good center console replacements/additions) velcro-ing one or two of these onto the door(s). However I'll first hold it there to see if it looks OK. (Or maybe someone finds something similar made out of better fitting material) :
High Road DriverPockets Cell Phone Holder and Car Organizer - CargoGear Car and Truck Accessories
One for sunglasses, and one for garage tickets or so. Now that I know these phone holders exist, I think right at the door is a good place for a few things, for quick access, and for sunglasses these are better than hard pockets with other stuff moving against the glasses (and where you have to first search for them).
EDIT: (Or to the inner side of the console walls below the touchscreen.)�
Mar 19, 2012
NigelM Good find Norbert. I foresee a thread dedicated to console accessories as soon as Model S deliveries start....:biggrin:�
Mar 19, 2012
onlinespending +1 on this! I'm getting the sense that Tesla realizes that the majority of people want at least SOME amount of storage in the car and are making every effort to accommodate us. I sort of hope they realize that their first attempt at the center console was a failure and are going back to the drawing board. Hey, you can't win 'em all! And while post-production inserts for the center console do provide flexibility for everyone, quite honestly the flexibility should have been provided from the get go and standard (a solution that provides ample storage, still maintains a vast open area that highlights the uniquely EV lack of a transmission column, and provides usable cup holders that don't impede on the use of the arm rests).�
Mar 19, 2012
AnOutsider To them, they might not see it as a "failure". I think rather than dragging them over the coals for something that they (and others) likely feel is sufficient, we should be happy that it at least seems they're willing to go back and make good for those that disagree. Again, what other manufacturer would do that?�
Mar 19, 2012
onlinespending Any company who's name alone won't sell their product. It would be foolhardy for them to ignore the wants of the majority of their most ardent supporters, let alone the general public.
And what's wrong with calling them out on what many consider a major drawback of the current interior? I love the Model S (and Tesla) for many reasons, but am not shy to speak up when they seem to have a glaring shortcoming with their cars. And there's no shame if they acknowledge that they failed in the design of the center console (and other interior aspects). Again, not every design they come up with will be well received and as a young company it's essential that they be nimble and work towards correcting those deficiencies.
I think we'd pretty much all prefer (even those that like it as it is) if they simply included a solution from the get go that in no way compromised the existing open space, yet found a way to provide slide out storage.�
Mar 19, 2012
AustinPowers That's the thing that bugs me the most. I always thought "right, this is the Beta, they'll surely change a few things in the interior before launch - the partly shoddy looking build quality, the missing storage space, the manual folding side mirrors, the unusable cup holders, the too short armrest, the missing door-pockets etc. etc."
Now that it seems these things will make it into production as is, Franz's statement becomes completely ridiculous. I mean hey, Elon also owns and drives an Audi Q7. And so he knows what premium build quality and functionality is meant to be. So when he and Franz are saying they want the S to be at least equal if not better than the Audis, BMWs , Mercs, Lexus's etc. on the planet then, sorry, they must be either out of their mind, blind or at least oblivious of the facts.
And as much as I wish Tesla to succeed with the Model S and as a company, now that (at least in Europe) the first generation of the major players' EVs are looming on the horizon, this goal will get ever more difficult. Keeping my fingers crossed though...�
Mar 19, 2012
Todd Burch I may have been the one who started the ranting about the console this weekend, and I've had a few days to sleep on it...so I've come back with some comments after thinking about it some:
1) I think my concern is that there isn't concealed storage. Obviously, there's plenty of storage space in the Model S. I just don't want a big bag of garbage sitting out in the open in the car to detract from its otherwise awesome looks.
2) The front cupholders are not in a great position. I wish there were cupholders in back.
3) I can see that the open space will definitely have its benefits for storing my wife's purse, takeout, retail purchases, etc.
4) I'm a little concerned about arm support while driving and tapping the touchscreen....concerned that bumps will cause my arms to flail wildly and make it difficult to tap precisely on the screen.
I'm glad to hear Tesla may be investigating some sort of modular storage option. I don't need much...and it shouldn't cost a lot.
Having said all that, I trust that testers have put enough miles on the car to explore these issues. since Elon's been driving the car as well, I trust that his discriminating taste has sifted through the major issues.
Although the interior is not quite what I would have preferred, I still can't imagine getting any other car. The fact that it's electric, for me, trumps all else.�
Mar 19, 2012
dsm363 Well said. If you're purely basing this car on the interior quality against $90,000 BMWs or Mercedes then you will likely be disappointed at least with the initial Model S. I still think the quality and interior is fine just apparently not on the same level as those cars at that price range. It is an EV with many other amazing features and driving characteristics. Something that not even a $120,000 ICE can match is never going to a gas station and that has to be worth something too.�
Mar 19, 2012
jerry33 Right. If it wasn't electric, I wouldn't be even looking at it.�
Mar 19, 2012
ElSupreme I hardly ever use my arm rest. I drive a stick so my left hand is always on the wheel. My right hand is almost either on the stick or wheel. The only time I really use the armrest is on long drives and really only for about 5 minutes out of ever hour.
Right now I have 6 credit/debit cards in my center console. It has never really had anything else worth while in it.
The more people are complaining them more I like the interior.�
Mar 19, 2012
Robert.Boston At least the folks up front have cupholders. The complete absence of any anything for the rear passengers is a major gaff. Rear-seat passengers need cupholders plus seat-back storage.�
Mar 19, 2012
Denis Vinnie �
Mar 19, 2012
spatterso911 we figured that was what you meant. Just couldn't ignore the subliminal undertones...�
Mar 20, 2012
AustinPowers That is exactly how it is on my BMW. Compartment on the lower dash left of the steering wheel, size large enough to fit my sunglasses, parking disc clock, and ice scraper. And that's in addition to the door pockets, the glove compartment, two small drawers in the middle of the dash, and three compartments in the center console / armrest. Then again, I don't have cupholders, but not being a Starbucks-maniac I don't really miss them all that much.�
Mar 20, 2012
smorgasbord I was surprised to find a pocket of sorts built in the front of the front seats. At least the Red one (VIN 44 I think) that's at Santana Row for a couple more days has them. They're almost the full width of the seats, and about 6" deep. Probably not a bad place to put your wallet, but coins would get lost. It might be OK for sunglasses, but not ideal.�
Mar 20, 2012
Tommy When I heard Tesla's product manager use the term "negative space" to describe their open console concept I cringed. I can't think of one positive attribute the word "negative" has other than in the medical field where "the results came back negative" is a good thing. Yea, I know there are other examples I'm sure, but to describe something as "negative" is going to take a lot more marketing dollars to convey it's a "positive".
Ok, so anyone want to come up with a better word. My choice is "Free Range Console" Free range - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Pretty much describes what items your trying to store in that open space do.
Don't take too much of what I just said serious, just my brand of humor. :wink:�
Mar 20, 2012
onlinespending haha. How's about "Black Hole". It contains anti-matter, which is kind of like negative-space.�
Mar 20, 2012
bonnie Configurable console.�
Mar 20, 2012
smoothoperator Theft Tray�
Mar 20, 2012
vfx More than that, they already have center inserts in development. This is an advantage of EVs. A great looking factory made matching interchangeable center console that can be swapped out for different customer's needs.
As I noted last Nov it looks like a console sculpt in progress in this picture.
�
Mar 20, 2012
bonnie Thank god you finally weighed in.�
Mar 20, 2012
NigelM Most of the posts have been fair. At least in this thread I don't recall anyone saying they "won't buy the car unless....." and there are no accusations of insanity on either side. The poll still remains with this being of concern to a good majority of reservation holders and Tesla (at least in the form of GeorgeB) has said they are planning to do something. Highlighting things customer's want through this or any other forum is great feedback for Tesla.�
Mar 20, 2012
bonnie I agree, Nigel, most have been fair. But there have also been some getting increasingly worked up in various threads over this issue - and I think it's probably helpful for folks to realize that Tesla might already have been thinking about this. It's good to point out what people aren't currently happy about, good feedback for Tesla. It just needs to stay on an even keel.�
Mar 20, 2012
smoothoperator who are you talking about? that guy from Montreal who thinks the interior is a conspiracy?�
Mar 20, 2012
Steph Haha
If you think marketing gimmics are conspiracies, then yes, it's a conspiracy.
�
Mar 20, 2012
132 In Engles second video from Santana Row George B says "Plenty of room for a console that will be different things".
Different choices here would certainly be the home run. While I like the open space it seems ready made for modular inserts. This is only speculation of course.�
Mar 20, 2012
Robert.Boston More info please! First I've heard of this pocket. My storage needs are very modest -- I'd like to be able to tuck wallet, sunglasses, and a few RFID cards somewhere. This pocket might do. Is it large enough to hold a small water bottle?�
Mar 20, 2012
smoothoperator
Seems odd they would not have these modular inserts on display or even installed on at least one beta?�
Mar 20, 2012
ElSupreme Except these modular units don't need to be delivered by July. They are 'Wish list' items, not 'Punch list' items. As someone that is weeks away from closing out a 3+ year project I am really sympathetic to their plight.�
Mar 20, 2012
132 Saying it will be - different things- ? Its making me more and more anxious about the design studios arrival. I was looking at thr photos someone took of the open space with the carpet removed. Those rounded squares could easily be for alignment�
Mar 20, 2012
smoothoperator I think they are a bit more than "Wish list" GeorgeB said that modular consoles will be an option.
It would be foolish to not have these options available when customers purchase their cars. The vast majority of car buyers are far more likely to select options when they purchase a car.�
Mar 20, 2012
AnOutsider Yup, but time might mean that it's not possible. I can see it being around September before accessories roll out in earnest -- and I think that's OK, as the MOST important thing right now is to roll out the car. Plus, until Sept, it'll be sig and founders anyway, and I'm sure those are the types to come back to buy (or get free?) what they didn't get in the beginning.�
Mar 20, 2012
doug Trying to go through this stuff and I'm in a bit of a loss. Why are you guys talking about wi-fi in this thread?�
Mar 20, 2012
bonnie Because we had no adult supervision.�
Mar 20, 2012
brianman Hah. We locked the adults in the frunk.�
Mar 21, 2012
doug 
�
Mar 21, 2012
doug Moved: ATT/wi-fi whining�
Mar 21, 2012
Adstein Not only that, looks like Saddle leather as well�
Mar 21, 2012
onlinespending Where were those diagrams retrieved from? If these are somehow leaked from Tesla, certainly seems very convincing that we will in fact see an entirely alternative center console to the one that's currently in the Betas (at least at some point). For something like the center console, it's not inconceivable to think that they have been using a makeshift one in the Betas we've seen and have been off developing one that will actually be put in the RCs or final production cars.
And while this certainly looks better than the simple dual-track design they have now, I still don't see how this adds storage of any kind. They still seem to highlight the open area for placing a bag into (which I truly like), but hopefully it also has some compartments for storage.�
Mar 21, 2012
bonnie These drawings were from a Model S promotional booklet they handed out at the factory event last fall.�
Mar 21, 2012
Zextraterrestrial Was there a special promo booklet that they gave you because you have a roadster? I only found the 'standard' promo booklet at the kiosk + all of the little plastic injection molded cars. The center console sketches definitely have lines that match the styling of the door panels�
Mar 21, 2012
Norbert Isn't that for the Model X console?�
Mar 21, 2012
bonnie You're right, Norbert. I remembered seeing it in a promo book. I just pulled out my Model X book and there it is.
So now the question is if it will be interchangeable between models. (Would make sense for efficiency/costs.) Because clearly something is in the works.�
Mar 21, 2012
bonnie Doug's taken a first pass at cleaning up some of these threads. Reposting from another location:
�
Mar 21, 2012
smorgasbord Thanks, Bonnie:
�
Mar 21, 2012
bonnie I'm trying not to like that. But failing.
�
Mar 21, 2012
Norbert Yes, George B said so in one of engle's interviews.�
Jun 20, 2012
malcolm Bump.�
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