Oct 3, 2015
AnOutsider Starting this thread as this is the vehicle that many seem to cross-shop with the X and I thought it might be useful to have a singular place for discussion (and off topic dumping ground for us mods :wink.
I must also confess to being curious myself. I'd seen the XC90 at a car show and liked it very much. The center screen was nice and the interior definitely felt luxury. I didn't know Volvo was serious though, and wrote it off as a nice concept put out there to distract from the Model X. Glad to be wrong.
I configured one of the e models online, and our options maxed us out 80,705. That was for a nice, luxurious interior, exterior color we both loved, HUD and all the active driver assist stuff the Model X should have. No SW updates and insane launches, but for a family hauler? I think it's good. No FWD, but after I showed her the reveal video, my wife didn't like them much in any case.
So,those cross-shopping, what ticks the boxes for you? What will you end up choosing?�
Oct 3, 2015
Vitold 
�
Oct 3, 2015
AlMc Until I dropped my SigX reservation I had not even considered the Volvo. We had an XC90 years ago as our 'family hauler' and felt it was underpowered and ate through rear tires. However, with all the attention it has garnered in the last few days on TMC I will check it out.
Thanks for starting the thread.�
Oct 3, 2015
MorrisonHiker Another nice "feature" if you order any Volvo is that with the Overseas Delivery program, you get two fee tickets to fly to Sweden to pick it up at the factory. They also include a night at a hotel, some local transportation, a meal, factory tour and initial insurance and registration fees so that you can drive your new car around Europe for up to 6 months. When you are done, you can drop it off and they will ship it to the US. I was waiting for the plug-in XC90 T8 for quite some time and almost ordered. Then the S70D was announced and I started looking into Tesla. The range on electric for the XC90 isn't as good as it could've been but it would probably work for the commutes of most drivers. It definitely had tons of storage and really comfortable seats that actual fold flat!
�
Oct 3, 2015
Yggdrasill I'd definitely cross-shop the XC90 T8 and the Model X. But because of the EV incentives here, the XC90 T8 starts at 967k NOK, whereas a Model S 70D starts at 586k NOK. The starting price for the Model X is unknown, but it wouldn't surprise me if the XC90 T8 ends up starting at 40% more than the base Model X.
Thus, the XC90 is out of my price range.�
Oct 3, 2015
SwedishAdvocate If anyone is wondering where Vitold got that quote from:
2016 Volvo XC90 Crash Tested by Euro NCAP, Guess the Overall Score - Video - autoevolution�
Oct 3, 2015
MorrisonHiker In the US, the XC90 T8 would actually be cheaper in most cases. It still qualifies for some state and federal tax incentives. I don't remember the exact number but I think they would total around $10600 in Colorado (of which about $4600 would be federal) vs. $13500 for a new Tesla or $6000 for a used Tesla.�
Oct 3, 2015
SwedishAdvocate And more importantly:
�
Oct 3, 2015
Fanatic Crash bom bang! Looks like the Model X is way better from the reveal pics. The big battery pack gives so much stiffness to the chassi that it won't bulge.�
Oct 3, 2015
AlMc Just priced one out. I will go check one out today. I feel a little 'dirty' doing it but it may prove to be an excellent alternative to waiting months/a year+ for the X to come out with the utility that my family uses (needs) in our family/work vehicle.�
Oct 3, 2015
X-Wing T8 Buye Beware & IIHS Side Crash Result
While still one of the safest vehicle out there period, the new 2016 XC90 actually did worse in the Head HIC-15 measure in the side crash test than the previous gen for both the driver and passenger.
Head HIC-15 is 233 and 82 for the 2016 XC90 driver and passenger. For the 2014 it is 61 and 28 respectively.
Unfortunately we don't have the numbers for Tesla Model S/X to compare to, for this test and other tests (full, moderate, small frontal... etc.). Less vehicle deformation does not always lead to less injury.
Also for the perspective XC90 T8 PHEV, it should be noted that because the rear axle is driven completely by the electric motor. There is only 20% power going to the rear wheel at best.
The XC90 is also on my list, but I will skip the T8 and opt for the T6 instead.�
Oct 3, 2015
Yggdrasill I know it is cheaper in the US. If I was in the US, my choice would have been made much harder, but I think I'd still go for the Model X over the XC90. The utility is definitely better, as well as the interior details and such, but for me, it's simply a half measure. It still lugs around an outdated ICE, and I refuse to spend such a large amount of cash on an outdated technology.
The XC90 T8 does recieve some incentives here; a base XC90 T6 starts at 1,021k NOK, while the XC90 T8 starts at 967k NOK. In the US, the XC90 T6 starts at 50k USD, while the XC90 T8 starts at 68k USD. The incentives the XC90 T8 recieves, however great, just aren't enough to put it in the same price range as the Model X.�
Oct 3, 2015
SwedishAdvocate �and how often are you going to go sideways with your Volvo into a 100% solid pole with a massive supporting structure (!)?
Pro tip:
If you ever are going to drive it on ice, then mount a spare set of these winter tires on it:
Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 SUV - The most advanced non-studded winter tire technology for drivers of SUVs / Nokian Tires
If you can affort that car, then you can afford a spare set of dedicated winter tires.�
Oct 3, 2015
Merrill Personally I do not think this is a good comparison, the X is a Bev and the Volvo is a hybrid. Also I'm not thrilled with the redesign of the new XC90.�
Oct 3, 2015
MorrisonHiker I know what you mean. I really want to get away from ICE which is why I stopped considering the XC90 in April. Based upon the reveal, I might consider it again and delay going BEV until the Y is out.�
Oct 3, 2015
X-Wing Was the Model X test also done by Euro NCAP or using the same test standard? Unless they are, you cannot compare the results.
Most importantly it is the actual injury risk measure that matter.
Anyways, here the Tesla presentation slide, but given their recent behavior I will remain skeptical until we have more concrete data and real world results.
�
Oct 3, 2015
Discoducky So I configured an XC90 with just about everything that has value for me (and that is everything except the body effects) including the hybrid option. Configured PDF is here: http://1drv.ms/1LpyiHw
What is has that I value for the price over Model X that would keep me from buying a Model X as I hope it will be available on Model X eventually (does that make sense?)
1. The Volvo XC90 spec page is hard to navigate and I can't find answers to my questions so I'll just list the questions
Questions:
1. How far can it go on electric only?
2. Don't see a towing package, maybe I missed it, how much can it tow/rated/class/whatever...
3. How much ground clearance?
4. How fast 0 to 60? Rollout or no rollout, I don't care and I don't care about HP, I know some do, but not me, IMHO it doesn't matter, micro rant off
5. Why can't I get non-silver wheels? Grrrr
Lot's of good stuff on the XC90, check out the PDF!�
Oct 3, 2015
Yggdrasill 5000 lb towing capacity as standard and the T8 does 5.6 seconds on 0-62 mph without rollout, at least. Not sure about the others.�
Oct 3, 2015
Discoducky thanks!
�
Oct 3, 2015
X-Wing How often do you need to drive more than 80miles per day? How often do you need to carry large items that require the 2nd row to fold down? Just because the situation occurs rarely doesn't mean that it is not high desired.
Absolutely agree with you on the winter tires by the way. All-Season is fine when it is just cold and dry, or maybe even wet. But once you have snow and ice, there is imply no comparison.�
Oct 3, 2015
DougH The XC90 hands down. It is truly amazing.�
Oct 3, 2015
Krugerrand Tesla has never been misleading with the safety of their vehicles. Ever. There's no data to suggest they'd be misleading with the X. Safety is the most important thing to Elon and to Tesla, and has been since day one. Customers had to wait for their P85Ds because the next gen seats they'd planned to put in those cars didn't safety with 5*'s. If ever there's a sure thing it is that the Model X will ace NHTS's crash tests.�
Oct 3, 2015
GregTexas
The problem is Overseas Delivery for the XC90 has been sold out for months. They told me maybe next year there will be more allotment.�
Oct 3, 2015
AnOutsider So about the same towing as the X, and .2s faster in the 0-60 over a non-performance X (I believe that was 5.8 IIRC)
Have you driven the latest model?
My wife is very interested in that as well, but just about every thing we looked at said excludes XC90. How does that work anyway? They say free airfare and hotel stay, but I assume it's rolled into the (then-higher) price of the vehicle?�
Oct 3, 2015
mikevbf The Volvo plug in is the only other car I have considered getting other than a Model X. The reason I started even looking at it is that the closest Tesla Service center is 100 miles from me and Tesla seems to be changing their policy for Ranger visits. I am worried that my choices when The MX has a warranty issue are I will have to either pay $600+ for a ranger visit or lose a day at a service center. Where as, a Volvo service center is about 18 miles from me and I can get a loaner or get picked up by my wife and live with one car. The reasons I am still leaning toward a Model X is that I believe its low center of gravity and thus cornering performance is going to be significantly better. I doubt the Volvo or any CUV (outside of the Porche) comes any where close to the handling of a Model S like the the X does. The other reason I lean toward the X is electric range. At best from what I have gathered so far it will have 25 mile range on all electric. That does not even cover my day to day. I am completely willing to to pay more and not have second row folding seats, if Tesla will cover in warranty ranger visits. Until their ranger policy becomes clear as regards my situation the Volvo stays on my radar.�
Oct 3, 2015
JohnSnowNW I will point out again, as I did in a previous thread, C&D returned 27MPG over a 90 mile drive, with a full battery. I haven't run the numbers but that seems to be around ~18MPG after you run out of "juice."
That's a bit hard to swallow, if you do much driving over the 20 mile EV range C&R also achieved. Of course, it will still be efficient for many.�
Oct 3, 2015
MorrisonHiker The price of the vehicle is fixed and LOWER than the price you would pay for a car at the dealership since it didn't have all the dealer markup. No haggling involved. Here's the price list http://www.flyvolvo.com/XC90T8MY16.pdf�
Oct 3, 2015
Freshies XC90 PHEV info
I have been looking at an XC90, but decided against it. It's a nice car, but limited in terms of it's electric mode.
The answers to your questions are as best as I know--
1. 10 to 20 miles with a 9.9kWh total battery capacity. But the electric motor only drives the rear wheels and the ICE only drives the front. Thus, to be in AWD mode, both the ICE and the EV motor must be in use.
2. 5,000 pounds.
3. 10.5"
4. 0 to 60mph in 5.9s with both the ICE and EV motors. EV alone, it's apparently slow, and if you press the accelerator too hard, the ICE will turn on.
Ultimately, we decided not to get the Volvo, even though it looks great. The EV part just looks too constrained. I fear that if we were to get it, the ICE would turn on too much for my liking, especially as we live on the top of a steep hill. I own a Volt now, and a battery capacity smaller than what the Volt has would drive me nuts.
A better option may be the Audi Q7 PHEV, as it's supposed to have a decently-sized 16kWh battery. However, it still hasn't been announced for sale in the US.
Even though there are issues with the Model X, we decided to put a deposit down for one, as it does not look like any car manufacturer is interested in making a 7-seater EV anytime soon. Even the future Audi E-Tron Quattro Concept only has 4(!) seats, and won't be delivered until at least 2018.
�
Oct 3, 2015
tonyinc I wanted to wait on the X. I too am trying to mull it over. At least with the T8 you can believe what the specs/capabilities of the car are. They published all the specs months ago.
This is what is so frustrating. I REALLY REALLY want the X, but after YEARS of waiting, the specs/capabilities/deliveries are still left to people in forums to guess at... and the car has already been released.
Very close to just forgetting about the X and deciding if the S will work for me or if I should go with the T8.
After years for coulds and shoulds and "probably in the future", and the same after the "launch" the disappointment I feel that it probably (who knows really) won't meet my needs, is immense and I don't think I could take any more. If I hang in there and it ends up being another year for my production res # to come up, I could not take it. Meanwhile my old SUV stays around when it could have been replaced with something much better.
I hate to describe it as heartbreaking, but that's kind of what it feels like. At some point Tesla will not be able to treat their loyalists like this let alone the car buying public in general.�
Oct 3, 2015
gfb107 The Model X 90D does 0-60 in 4.8 seconds, while the P90D does it in 3.8 seconds. See Model X | Tesla Motors
So the Model X 90D is actually 0.8s faster than the XC90 T8�
Oct 3, 2015
Sparky We did the Overseas Delivery for an XC90 a few years ago. Of course demand was lower for the XC90 then. Four of us traveled to Gothenberg, Sweden in late June, just before the factory closed for re-tooling.
The price was list minus a small factory incentive offered at the time.
Arrangements through Volvo's Overseas Delivery people.
No up-charge for the tickets on Scandinavian Airlines. Two of the four tix were paid for and they offered 2-nights stay in a nice Radisson Hotel in town as well as a car to the factory the next day.
Factory tour, lunch of Swedish meatballs, and a showroom where our car was waiting for our inspection.
They set us up with a European DVD for the Nav and I paid 80 Euro for insurance for a month of travels around Europe.
Great vacation. Dropped the car off in Munich and flew home. Picked up the car at the same local dealer about 6 weeks later.�
Oct 3, 2015
peteyswift I think the question may be, if you were to pick a "2nd best SUV" what would it be
The XC90 I saw in a parking lot looked pretty big with lots of useful space, not sure what the cargo comparison with the MX is though. Other things that have got me thinking about the XC90:
1) Fully loaded, it would be $20k less than a pretty loaded MX (estimate), with less wait for delivery
2) The T8 could get about 20 miles on EV mode and my work "commute" is about 6 miles/day round trip
3) Biggest road trips for the family car, we've found, to be ski trips and more rural areas (as kids get older) and wife still does not like the "delays" of charging, certainly at a non-Supercharger. Destination charging is hit/miss and we are not at the point where we alter our hotel based on charging availability.
4) Interior lux level on the Volvo has got to be top 1 or 2; really nice, imo.
5) The XC90 has some very stylish, fresh trims and wheel options
6) Still haven't bought into the whole falcon-wing door thing; and the kids have done fine with slowly opening the passenger doors and getting in/out of our Model S. Certainly, for those using baby carriers, etc, the Model X rear entry would be pretty convenient.�
Oct 3, 2015
X-Wing As I pointed out earlier, that part really bothers me. Only 20% of the max 400hp system power can be send to the rear axle.
Not just the interior. The leather key fob is awesome. Also they already have working semi-autonomous driving (aka Auto Pilot).
There is still something about the Model X that feels special to me though and not because its BEV.
�
Oct 3, 2015
AnOutsider Good discussion all. What started off as idle musings has us contacting our local dealership to go check out a 2016 XC90. Not the electric version, but certainly worth a serious look.
She's amazed they'll cover your flight overseas with no crazy markup�
Oct 3, 2015
MorrisonHiker Here's the price list for the non electric T6: http://www.flyvolvo.com/XC90MY16.pdf�
Oct 3, 2015
MX458Dave I went and looked at this vehicle. It is beautiful. It's definitely my close second choice at this point. Leather feels great, screen works well, wood inlay is amazing. I'm also torn about the "hybrid", with the annoyance of lugging the ICE around, vs not worrying about charging on trips. The e range would cover half my commute. Tough choices. Still leaning towards X, despite the unknowns and higher price etc.�
Oct 3, 2015
Beryl Love Volvos (had one for 15 years) so I had to peep at it. Besides the design (Volvos are never pretty), I'm unimpressed by the range. If it had at least a 50 mile range, I'd see it as viable competitor.�
Oct 3, 2015
mikevbf I can not locate that other thread. Would you please provide the C&D or C&R link. Thanks�
Oct 3, 2015
JohnSnowNW I didn't give the specifics in the other thread, just commented on its poor efficiency...but here is the link to the article:
2016 Volvo XC90 First Drive Car and Driver�
Oct 3, 2015
mikevbf Thanks. Here is the exact quote from C&D:
"A full battery charge should deliver about 20 miles of pure electric driving range. In our hands, the XC90 T8 reported an average of 27 mpg over a 90-mile drive that began with a full battery."
It does not sound like they actually tried to see how far they could go in all electric, but rather estimated it. If I were to own this vehicle, I would want to drive it in all electric 90% of the time. I wonder how the car feels and behaves with its 90 hp electric rear motor? It would be hard to believe, it could come any where close to the Model X without dipping significantly into the gas engine which as the article points out creates its own handling issues related to FWD cars.�
Oct 3, 2015
Lyon I find it quite interesting that this thread should pop up today. My wife and I tested an XC90 yesterday and are going back today with the kids to see if they're able to get into the third row without help and if the carseats fit.
Things we liked about the Volvo:
- Heads up display
- Wife likes the styling
- Sensus system is actually pretty easy to use.
- Kick foot under the rear to open the rear hatch
- Fuel economy is alright for a vehicle of that size.
Things we didn't like about the Volvo:
- Cupholders in the rear are kind of a joke
- 1 (ONE) USB port in the whole car (as far as I can tell)
- No option for captain's chairs in the second row
- Fuel economy is just alright for a vehicle of that size.
IMO, the T8 isn't really worth the extra money given the low battery range.�
Oct 3, 2015
X-Wing Plug-in hybid XC90 matches Tesla for acceleration
Not sure if its the 85D or rwd 85 they compared to. But perhaps I dismissed the XC90 T8 drivetrain too quickly.
I still think the new XC90 front end design is somewhat questionable.
"Volvo claims the 5,000-pound (PHEV model) XC90 matches or surpasses the acceleration of a Tesla Model S for the first three seconds when you tromp the throttle. In the chart above (acceleration in meters per second per second on the vertical axis, time in seconds on the horizontal axis), the Tesla (red line) starts quickly, but the XC90 jumps ahead within the first half second and remains ahead until about 3 seconds. The old V8 XC90 (blue line) is shown for comparison. Volvo rates the XC90 T8 at about 5.6 seonds 0-60 mph, within a second of the Tesla�s time."
�
Oct 3, 2015
Johan The XC90 is a very nice car, especially the T8.
But I've seen some of the new ones in traffic: the front grill is about as far off on the other side of the scale, design wise, as compared to the MX.
It's a matter of esthetics I suppose.
�
Oct 3, 2015
AnOutsider I'd actually prefer the XC90 front to the X.
That said, we went and saw it and coming from a Q7, it's just too small. The OSD sounded great and it was cheaper than buying the car here in the states (and you get a vacation on top!), but the rep we spoke to said to expect 17 miles all electric range and that's it's best to drive in hybrid mode.
In the end the small second row and wimpy cup holders sealed the deal. Very nice, but not for us.
On the way back we stopped at another dealer, but that's another thread -_-�
Oct 3, 2015
1208 Euroncap tests for S and XC90, reveals why Elon focused on side pole as that was a downfall of the S.
�
Oct 3, 2015
rogbmw We have both an X and an XC90 T8 on order. We ordered the XC90 this past summer (July I believe), and have a delivery date of mid December. I priced the X and the XC90, and both configured pretty close to the same ended up with the XC90 T8 being almost to the $ of being $30,000 less than the X. We ordered our X on the reveal night several years ago. The X has a federal tax incentive of 7,500, and the XC90 T8 is just under $5000. We have driven the XC90 a couple of times, and came away very impressed. The Sensus touch screen works well too. Plus, Volvo and Tesla are both known for their safety. We just have to decide which will be best for us....�
Oct 3, 2015
loganthefirst You're absolute that we still receive our $6000 state credit on our taxes even when purchasing used? This may sway me to look at used Model S' rather than wait for my Model X "70D" option for another year...Thanks for the info. Also would you be able to provide me with your tax contact you use to file every year in a personal message? I need someone who understands EV incentives. Thanks!�
Oct 3, 2015
andrewket I don't know what the stats are now, but in 2010 Volvo said buyers who took delivery in Sweden through the program were 90% likely to buy another Volvo in the future. Correlation vs causation? Who knows. They see it as an investment in future sales.�
Oct 3, 2015
MorrisonHiker The Colorado tax credit is good on used cars that have not been previously registered in the state of Colorado. There are several other threads that mention the tax credit and how it has been used successfully on used cars but it can take several months before the refund is received. There is actually a used car dealer up near Boulder that "imports" used Chevy Volts from out of state and promises they are eligible for the state tax credit.
I haven't actually claimed the tax credit on a used car yet (but may if I go for a used D). I actually file my own taxes with TurboTax and on the state's tax website. I'll search and see if I can find the other threads that I found reporting success.�
Oct 3, 2015
Dwu0212 Canceled my X reservation and ordered a xc90 t8, will be here end of the year�
Oct 3, 2015
X-Wing While the lab tests can reveal particular area of weakness of each car (e.g.2016 XC90 has less than spectacular HIC-15 performance on IIHS side test), the Model S and the XC90 for that matter are still some of the safest vehicles money can buy.
Your post did led me to something interest and I can see why Elon choose to show the side pole test in the Model X presentation.
The stiff underbody structure really helps in the pole test. You can see how the model S tilt to a much larger angle compare to other vehicles in this test.
For the side mobile barrier crash test, because it largely misses the stiff underbody tray. Intrusion into the cabin is more pronounced.
p.s. Euro NCAP updated the side pole test for 2015 to an even tougher standard (32 vs 29km/h and comes in at an angle), so the result is not directly comparable to the XC90 by the way.�
Oct 3, 2015
SteveG3 This does not matter to everyone, but it does not seem PHEV's allow performance car (or even average) acceleration AND zero emissions at the same time. A BEV like a Tesla simply offers a combination of strengths other drivetrains cannot.�
Oct 3, 2015
1208 The windscreen didn't break in frontal test...
�
Oct 3, 2015
X-Wing It appears that Model S actually performed worse on the injury measures compared to Q5 and XC60 despite having much less cabin intrusion in the pole test.
Link to NHTSA report for Model S.
Since the supercharging letter, P85D rated motor power and 0-60mph roll out saga, I became a little bit more skeptical of Tesla. Looks like my earlier suspicion is not without ground.
I still want the Model X though, can't quite explain why. Must be the Falcon door and the frunk.�
Oct 3, 2015
Yggdrasill This has to be the S85. The Model S P90D Ludicrous has around 1.1 G for the first 3 seconds, or 11 m/s^2. The Model X P90D Ludicrous should have a bit less, maybe around 9 m/s^2. I'm thinking the Model X 90D will most likely stay above XC90 T8 across the entire range, though not by much.�
Oct 3, 2015
Jeeps17 I priced a well-equipped XC-90 PHEV on the Volvo Canada site, came to $96K before taxes.
Not sure I would spend that much for an ICE ever again... but that's me.�
Oct 3, 2015
kaneda The XC90 was in our sight to replace our aging Volvo until We started to look into Tesla and the MS won hand down for us.
I had a close look at the car at the Geneva auto salon back in March and I was disappointed by the quality of the interior of the XC90. I had already ordered my TMS a month before the show so my impression was certainly biaised ...
Maybe Tesla is not much better, but for a similar price (in France) we get to drive one of the most formidable car on the planet :love:�
Oct 3, 2015
darthy001 Hmm... This thread is really surprising to me in terms of which users are seriously considering this car. I really hope that Tesla reads this...
Personally I will never buy anything with a dino-engine again after enjoying my two lovely EVs for the last couple years. For me its 100% drivetrain related. Dont have the environmental gene yet to be honest, but simply love they way an electric car drives!
At the same time I am very happy that I cancelled my X-reservation and bought a P85D instead since I would never have bought the X with the info available now. Hoping for a serious X-facelift in 3-4years when I fear my small boys have grown out of the Model S rearseats.
But a hybrid with a wimpy little electric motor comparable to that in my VW e-up! ? Come on guys! Please dont
Tesla: bring out those foldable/reclinable captains chairs�
Oct 3, 2015
X-Wing At the risk of sounding like a Volvo sales person, I think you mean AFTER tax. Note the 3rd line in price section is tax. An absolutely fully loaded XC90 T8 is $89,000 before tax in Canada.
I would speculate that a Model X 90D similarly equipped will be at arround CAD$145,000. This is based on a loaded Model S 90D plus another $6000 estimated Model X premium. Not sure if I had want to spend that much on a EV.
Just kidding, of course I plan on getting the Model X once they work out the initial kinks.
�
Oct 3, 2015
CarlK No way would I ever buy another ICE and much less a Volvo. Wouldn't be seen dead in one of those stodge cars but that's just me.
Don't be so naive. No one is serious (I hope). It's just used as a bargaining chip like it's been used a few times before.
�
Oct 3, 2015
EternalChampion The Volvo looks nice, and I'm sure that those who buy it will be happy. But I can't imagine going back to a gas station again. It seems a little "rotary phonish" to me.�
Oct 3, 2015
EchoDelta I think many folks on this thread are serious and despite still having hopes for Model X in future iterations, are choosing the Volvo now.
I'd hate to go back to a PHEV and hear the ICE turn on again :-/ but it's better than a full ICE on most driving patterns�
Oct 3, 2015
ZachShahan I haven't test driven the XC90 T8 yet, but I think it's worth noting that I've driven the Outlander PHEV and the acceleration is so much weaker than a Tesla that I think it's a huge sacrifice. Even considerably weaker than a Leaf or Zoe, iirc. Just one of many factors, and may not matter to some, but it is hard to compare these PHEVs with pure electrics on drive quality -- not even accounting for other factors.�
Oct 3, 2015
CarlK To me any car with an ICE is an ICE car. Anyway I can't stop people from doing anything but I would still buy the X even if Tesla just put stools in the second row. That said I do think the pedestal seat is one of the greatest things in a car and I'm sure I and my passengers will appreciate it.�
Oct 3, 2015
Hugh Mannity the XC90 has an ICE, not on my radar and never will be�
Oct 3, 2015
ZachShahan If you're concerned about the ICE for performance reasons at all, I'd really recommend test driving it or something similar before buying. I've been a proponent of PHEVs for years, but they are certainly not BEVs. I recently test drove an Audi A3 e-tron right after a Renault Zoe, and I was hugely disappointed in the drive quality of the e-tron... which was supposed to be much better. Was also disappointed in the drive quality of the Outlander PHEV... though it was surely better than any pure gas SUV.
Using the gas is something that would annoy me, but it's not just about using gas -- the drive quality is considerably different (i.e., worse). And compared to a Tesla... not even the same league, imho.�
Oct 3, 2015
X-Wing You certainly could've done more research.
The Nissan Leaf does 0-60 in 10.2 seconds in Car and Driver test. The Outlander PHEV officially does 0-60 in 11 seconds with 200bhp.
The Volvo does 0-60 in 5.6 seconds with 400hp. Volvo even claimed that it accelerates faster then Model S 85 as mentioned earlier.�
Oct 3, 2015
ZachShahan And it's not even about offering "performance car," as it loses the awesome powerful and smooth acceleration of a pure EV. It doesn't feel "performance."�
Oct 3, 2015
Vitold In electric only 'mode' XC90 will probably take close to 20 seconds, if not more, to go from 0-60.�
Oct 3, 2015
ZachShahan Yes, very true. It' almost 3am here and I was lazy looking up/sharing the numbers.
But reiterating my point, the A3 e-tron acceleration (7.6 seconds) felt like total crap compared to the Zoe I drove ~30 minutes earlier (8.2 seconds). The e-tron was supposedly better but felt much worse. I just recommend that anyone considering the XC90 T8 (or any PHEV) test drive it first, or at least get a good sense of how PHEVs feel vs pure BEVs.
I do think the XC90 T8 is a very good-looking vehicle. I'm sure I will write a lot of nice things about it. I imagine I will recommend it to people who are sure they don't want a Model X for one reason or another, but I will *strongly* recommend test driving and getting a good sense for the differences in acceleration they'd experience on a regular basis.
And, of course, consider how willing you are to visit the gas station again on a regular basis....�
Oct 3, 2015
JamesPolk According to EURO NCAP, the XC90 is superior in every category. Both are 5 stars, but you still have significantly better ratings on the XC90. Stop using pictures to judge a vehicles safety.
Official Volvo XC90 2015safety rating results
Euro NCAP | Car Details
It's unfortunate the Model S is still waiting on automatic emergency braking and other tech safety features. Tesla is trying to innovate with these bio-weapon filters and "sculptured" non-folding seats, but can't get the core necessities working.
Both of these are great vehicles, but need to decide which fit your needs. Model X was expected by many to be better in this regard.�
Oct 3, 2015
Vitold
Colorado's Electric-Car Credit: Applies To Used Cars Too
�
Oct 3, 2015
X-Wing XC90 T8 Buyer Beware
Funny you said that, because that happens to be quite relevant to the XC90 T8 PHEV.
I was look at the XC90 Brochure and unlike the T6 which has a 71L/18.8 gallon fuel tank, the T8 PHEV version has a tiny 50L/13.2 gallon tank.
That is down right pathetic and I can see that being a deal breaker to people.�
Oct 3, 2015
AnOutsider There are a lot of people that are happy with the Model X? There are many who aren't. If you are happy and not interested in cross shopping, why enter a thread on that topic to shake your head at those in it?�
Oct 3, 2015
Stoneymonster The Model S has AEB and several other sensor-based safety features.�
Oct 3, 2015
X-Wing As I was doing some research on the XC90, it turns out that Volvo actually does have a pretty advanced air filtering system as well.�
Oct 3, 2015
Krugerrand
Is it normal to compare safety test results of a sedan to a SUV/CUV? Don't the two by their difference in body shape mean crash test results are likely to be different? For example, one would expect rollover to be easier achieved in an SUV/CUV vs a sedan.�
Oct 3, 2015
JohnSnowNW I didn't notice the small tank...seems like the T8 might not get much more than 300 miles per tank, on road trip. Ouch.�
Oct 3, 2015
Magus For obvious reasons, this is a hilarious post. This is what happens when you make comments on which you really know nothing about. Embarrassing.�
Oct 3, 2015
DougH You can also sign up to be a member of VCOA and get A Plan Pricing which is employee pricing. I saved roughly $6000 by doing so.
Volvo Club of America - Volvo Club of America�
Oct 3, 2015
luca A lot of Volvo employees�
Oct 3, 2015
X-Wing Tesla actually did it during the Model X event as a reference point. We don't have actual stats for the Model X by an independent 3rd party (e.g. IIHS, NHTSA, Euro Ncap...etc) at the moment, so they were using Model S stats. I have no affiliation with these people, don't even have an account there.
Note that Model S actually has the least intrusion, but despite that the actual body injury measures were not nearly as impressive and actually worse in many measures.
Perhaps this slide is more of a marketing gimmick rather than a representation of actual safety. This is not to say that the Model S/X are not safe, however.
- - - Updated - - -
What are you talking about? Sounds like you are the one that drank the Kool-Aid to me.�
Oct 3, 2015
stopcrazypp There is a very obvious factual error the OP made that was already pointed out in regards to AEBS.�
Oct 3, 2015
trils0n The Euro Ncap website says the is no AEBS, and Tesla didn't get credit for having it. I guess when it was tested it wasn't a standard feature like now.�
Oct 3, 2015
stopcrazypp Digging through the NCAP site it says ratings among different classes and even different years can't be compared:
http://www.euroncap.com/en/ratings-rewards/best-in-class-cars/2014/
However, the thing is for 2014, the Model S was the only car in its class. And digging back to the old thread, the Model S got dinged for a passenger airbag that bottomed up during the test, but was fixed afterwards.
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/37913-NEWS-5-star-safety-rating-from-the-European-New-Car-Assessment-Program-%28Euro-NCAP%29%21%21�
Oct 3, 2015
Krugerrand Context is important. It wasn't used as a straight up comparison, they did not compare the S directly to the Q5 or XC60. The S was compared to the X to add credibility/significance to the X score.
They did compare their (Tesla's) X results vs one of the other SUV/CUVs (I don't recall which one they showed a picture of). And yes, *minor* injury rate in the X may be higher in that direct comparison with the other SUV/CUV, HOWEVER - and this is the context - because of the SIGNIFICANT protrusion of the pole in the other SUV/CUVs means serious injury AND death rate would be higher. I don't know about you, but I'll take a concussion and whiplash over crushed limbs, punctured organs et al.�
Oct 3, 2015
stopcrazypp To be fair to the others, I don't think the intrusion was enough to crush limbs or puncture organs. I imagine it would be noted on the test if that was the case. It is true however, we should wait for X numbers before comparing.�
Oct 3, 2015
Krugerrand I'm referring to the comparison photos provided. It's going to hurt a lot more in the other SUV/CUVs.�
Oct 3, 2015
Andex23 The last time we test drove a Volvo they had some crazy lockout system that prevented any use of the navigation system while driving, regardless of whether a passenger was in the car or not. That, in and of itself, was the deal breaker and we have never looked at another Volvo. Same can be said for lexus too. Has the Volvo nanny state changed in the last few years?�
Oct 3, 2015
CarlK Just like people who are not interested in the X anymore but choose to stay on the X forum.�
Oct 3, 2015
DougH I have never owned any Volvo that blocks the nav from working while in motion.
- - - Updated - - -
Just like people that are not looking to buy a Tesla but still comment in the For Sale section.�
Oct 3, 2015
ohmman This might become this xkcd comic.�
Oct 3, 2015
Lyon We test drove the XC 90 T6 today. The only part of the new Sensus system that turns off when you're in motion are some of the vehicle settings. You can enter addresses while in motion.
It's a fantastic car in many ways and pretty average in many others. It's got ONE USB port.... in the whole car.�
Oct 3, 2015
engle Model X vs. XC90 T8
I moved my long post comparing Model X BEV to Volvo XC90 T8 Plug-In Hybrid from the X Sig cancel thread here where it belongs:
Full disclosure: TSLA stockholder since 2012. Own no stock in Volvo's parent holding company.
Volvo is owned by Chinese-automaker Zhejiang Geely Holding Group, aka Geely [source: Wikipedia.org]
Personally, as an American citizen, I would buy a Tesla before I would EVER even consider buying a product from a company that is owned by a Chinese firm. It's nothing personal. In fact, my wife is Taiwanese-American. I spent 3 weeks in China this past May touring the country. I had a great time except the major cities are so polluted I wondered how anybody can live there.
IMHO, Americans need to support our American economy and American manufacturing jobs. Geely has already started exporting Chinese-made Volvos to the USA:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/20/asia/shanghai-auto-show-volvo/
They don't manufacture anything in the USA:
http://www.ask.com/business-finance/volvos-manufactured-a01f671a0263da62
unlike 10 other non-US brands:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automotive_assembly_plants_in_the_United_States
I've bought and leased Mercedes SUVs that are built in Vance, Alabama.
Out of curiosity, I checked out this Volvo XC90 T8 Twin Engine Plug-in Hybrid.
Volvo XC90 T8 Plug-In Hybrid Compared to Model X Pure BEV:
- T8 has a 400 hp 2.0 liter direct-injected turbo & supercharged internal combustion engine I certainly don't want polluting the environment whenever it kicks in. Nor do I want to have to go to a gas station to fill it up, or pay the dealer to service it.
- Both can tow 5,000 lbs.
- T8 electric-only range is 25 miles which is a joke, and it also says "save mode allows for optimal charge of battery while driving ensuring battery energy level provides about 12 miles of pure electric driving". Impressed! (not) X P90D range is 250 EPA, while 90D is 257.
- T8 has Start/Stop Tech to turn off engine at traffic lights so you don't pollute the environment when you're not going anywhere. So does my Mercedes. ICE desperation!
- T8 has Air Suspension option, but no GPS-based automation like the X.
- T8 Interior Air Quality System (IAQS) "removes 70% of fine dust", and they also "vent out emissions before drivers enter". The X doesn't have any "emissions" to vent out, and Elon said they could not detect anything inside the X cabin with their system: "it is almost like a hospital operating room".
- T8 has "Roll(over) Stability Control (RSC)" which I'm sure they need since they don't have the X's very low center of gravity
- T6 EPA is 20 (City)/25 (Highway)/22 (Combined). X 90D is 90 (City)/94 (Highway)/92 (Combined). X P90D is 89 (City)/90 (Highway)/89 (Combined).
- I didn't see any published T8 safety ratings?
- T8 0-60 mph: 5.9 sec. X 90D: 4.8 sec. X P90D: 3.8 sec., 3.2 sec. with Ludicrous Speed Upgrade
- T8 is missing many other X features that are too numerous to list here. Are there any XC90 T8 features missing from the X?
Volvo XC90 T8 base price is less expensive, but like most things in life, you get what you pay for.
This vehicle will be minor competition for the X, which I believe will eat Benz ML, GL; BMW X5, X6; Lexus RX/GX/LX; and Audi Q7's lunch. On Tues. night, I felt lucky to watch Elon's presentation standing right next to GeorgeB. He said (paraphrasing): "I know those guys in Germany and Japan are watching this right now and they are very, very unhappy." [and then he smiled]
That said, as a TSLA stockholder since 2012 :biggrin:, I hope they come to their senses and offer a folding second row seat option while they still have this long reservation queue so they can address this important use case that seems quite significant judging from TMC posts.�
Oct 3, 2015
peteyswift I think way too many people here are taking this as an actual comparison. There is no debate that the Model X outperforms the XC90 on most/all fronts. It's just hard to justify two $120k cars (eg if you already own a P85D) in a household sometimes. So you've got to look for an alternative with the least compromises...�
Oct 3, 2015
kf93 The XC90 outperforms the X on a number of important issues for potential buyers. The seats fold flat in both rear rows for a nice large cargo area, and you can put a roof rack on there with very little loss of range. It's also cheaper and probably available earlier than the X. The T8 does come with a range penalty of a smaller gas tank and no spare tire because of the battery. it's more of a performance model/around town driver than a true road trip version, but I've been considering it for a year or so now since I first started researching options to replace our 2007 Odyssey. In the end it was narrowed down to a GL350, X, or XC90 and back in February when I needed to order, only the GL350 was available to purchase. I'm keeping my X reservation just in case, but I'll certainly be driving the T8 when it gets to the local dealership, because we eventually need another 7 seater for the family within a couple of years. Unless you are hard core EV or nothing else, it's certainly a reasonable alternative to consider. If you are only looking at pure EVs, then Tesla is the only one to consider IMO, the other are just too small, no charging infrastructure or are just not visually appealing to me.�
Oct 3, 2015
engle Agree that second row fold flat is a use case TSLA missed and should offer later on. (After all the high-profile TMC Sig X cancellations that want this feature, they'll probably start the design next week.)
My opinion differs on the roof rack. X has a accessory hitch (not the 5,000 lbs. optional hitch you pay for) that can hold 6 pairs of skis, forget how many snowboards Elon said(?), or 4 bicycles. You can still open the rear hitch with it attached. A child connected it during Elon's demo. I've skied for years and it's going to be a lot easier to put the skis on the rear accessory hitch than on top with a roof rack. I believe the aerodynamics will be a lot better, too.
One of the vehicles I drove while waiting 3.5 years for the X was a 2012 ML350 BlueTEC, 20 City, 27 Highway, 22 Combined for the 2012. It was a solid choice for a stopgap if only 5 seats are needed while waiting -- good Driver Assistance Package with distronic plus, pre-safe brake, active blind spot assist and lane keeping (a joke) assist. I business leased it. I had to replace it at the end of April, 2013 when my lease ended and the X was delayed again. I could have extended the lease by 6 months, but that wouldn't be enough to get my X. I decided to single pay lease a relatively inexpensive E350 gas ICE (used as taxicabs in Germany), and accumulate the savings for a possible upgrade to X Performance for a second mid-life crisis vehicle. :biggrin:
My first was a 2007 CLK 550 Cabriolet with a 5.5-liter V8 (382 hp) that did 0-60 in 5.1 seconds with paddle shifters. I used to think that was fast until Tesla started making cars!�
Oct 4, 2015
ankitmishra In my opinion this thread is extremely questionable. Why is there a thread filled with details of another car in the Model X sub-forum? According to my comprehension this sub forum is to talk about X. If poster's who aren't interested in the X anymore want to buy another that's fine, but why are they discussing it in the X forum? I hope its not some excuse like "Hope Tesla sees this and we force them to ad features we want".
- - - Updated - - -
Wow!! May I remind you this is X sub-forum, its not a cross shopping sub forum. This is a place where people and owner come to read about Model X. According to my opinion (I maybe wrong) if a person who is not interested in X anymore needs to post where he finds the car he is interested in rather than use the X-forum for the car he like. If you are happy with XC90 or any other car, want to help people to buy XC90 or any other car and are not interested in X why create a thread in X forum about it? (Its my opinion, I am a new user and certainly if majority of users are ok with this then its fine. Though I will still disagree with this use of X forum (not that anyone cares about my opinion though).)�
Oct 4, 2015
engle There's a Forum Where you can go Discuss XC90 and this is not it
I agree with you, ankitmishra. Anyone who wants to learn more about or discuss XC90 can go here:
http://forums.swedespeed.com/forumdisplay.php?5020-XC90-(2016-)
We haven't been going to Audi, Benz, BMW, Lexus, etc. SUV/CUV forums and hijacking them by adding threads discussing how the Model X is superior to them all! :biggrin: They'll all learn soon enough when the see their first X in the wild with the FWD's open and talk to the owner.
Come to think of it, I think I'll post my earlier Model X vs. XC 90 comparison and "some Volvo's are made in China and none in the US" rant over there to see how they respond.�
Oct 4, 2015
Yggdrasill I think it's completely fine to *compare* the XC90 and the Model X in this forum. If the thread was only about the XC90, then it would fit better somewhere else.
It is an actual comparison. I'd say the XC90 T8 and the Model X have their pros and cons, but they are certainly competitors.
Pros, Model X 90D:
- All-electric
- Free long-distance for life
- Better safety (maybe not active safety features, Volvo is good at that)
- Quieter
- Smoother ride
- Better air filtration
- More performance
- Falcon wing doors
- Windscreen
- Low center of gravity
- Larger touchscreen
Pros, XC90 T8:
- Better looking (debatable)
- Better cargo utility
- Convenient use of roof rack/box
- Better reliability
- Cheaper
- Somewhat faster long distance travel
- Greater attention paid to interior details
- Sunroof
- 6000 lb towing in Europe
- Better navigation
- Active LED headlights (follows road)
After thinking about it, I'm personally not convinced by the XC90, but is it a worthwhile comparison? Definitely.�
Oct 4, 2015
tenstringer009 Precedence has certainly been set in the past for these types of discussions to happen in the model-specific sub-forums. Here are similar threads all in the Model S one (to name a few):
S vs. 5-series: Model S vs BMW 5 Series
S vs. S6: Can't decide between Model S or Audi S6
S vs. Fusion Energi: Ford Fusion ENERGI or Model S ...
I've spent a lot of time on other car forums as well (I'm a car guy by nature, not just an EV guy), and trust me, all of the other forums have similar threads (FJ Cruiser vs Wrangler, Sequoia vs Suburban, Pilot vs Highlander, etc.). I think it's completely reasonable to have a thread for people who were originally thinking of buying the Model X but are now considering something else. I'm sure part of it is people do want Tesla to take note and consider making some changes, and if that's the case, why is that such a bad thing? What's the worst that could happen? Tesla incorporates some of the 'pros' of competitor's vehicles into the X? To me, that sounds like a good thing for Tesla.
I think 99% of us on here want Tesla to succeed, but for some, the Model X has missed the mark in a couple of key ways which is making them consider other vehicles. What people like AnOutsider is doing is helping those who also maybe had the XC90 on their shopping list understand how it stacks up against the X.�
Oct 4, 2015
Yggdrasill How many 12V plugs does it have? The brochure says there's power in each row. A 12V plug becomes two USB ports with a $2 adapter.�
Oct 4, 2015
Matias Yggdrasill, You say Model X will be quieter than XC90. Of course when driving slow, but I'm not 100% convinced it will be quieter in highway speeds. Premium cars don't have any audible engine noise in highway speeds because noice from tyres and wind cancels it out.
About the safety I would say we don't have any independent results. Results which were shown in launch event were done by Tesla itself.�
Oct 4, 2015
Yggdrasill I think the start-stop function of the PHEV will be an order of magnitude more annoying than any potential tire and wind noise in the Model X.
We can of course discuss the safety aspect, but I'm personally completely convinced the Model X will be a safer car, for the following reasons:
- Less chance of rollover. Absolutely no way an XC90 can compete with a 600 kg battery pack and most of the drivetrain placed below the wheel hubs.
- In the Model X, you're not sitting on 50 liters of highly flammable liquid.
- No ICE in the front crumple zone. Maybe the testing won't show the complete benefit of this, but it's there. The Model X might for instance have a 10% chance of injury from 20-80 mph, while the XC90 might have a 5% chance of injury from 20-50 mph, and then a 50% chance of injury from 50-80 mph. The testing would show that the XC90 is twice as good, while it actually isn't in real life. The real life capabilities of the Teslas has been proven in the real world since the launch of the Model S. The only way to die in a Model S is to drive off a cliff or not wear your seatbelt.
My one worry is if the massive windscreen is more dangerous when it comes to moose collisions, but I suspect it doesn't make a huge difference.
�
Oct 4, 2015
Matias What annoys you is of course 100% subjective. I had 3 years Audi Q7 with start-stop function and it did not annoy me a bit.�
Oct 4, 2015
Yggdrasill Of course. All sound considerations are subjective. (Relevant question: If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it - does it make a sound?)�
Oct 4, 2015
AlMc It is not that people don't have interest in the X anymore. I would still be holding my reservation if the SUV met my needs in an SUV. TM will probably come out with a folding seat option but is it really 'soon' ( 3-6 months ) or Tesla 'soon' (6-12 months). If my current ICE SUV goes DOA one day I have to have alternatives if the X I am waiting for has not been produced. Many people, myself included, have been nursing their ICE SUV along waiting for the long delayed X to come out so we can get go all EV.
Beating the dead horse: We all made at least two 'assumptions' based on the limited information coming out of TM: First, the prototype showing a folding second row (no word to anyone that it would be different until Mark posted his config page, then confirmed by contacting TM) and Second, towing capacity: James Chen indicating up to 10K towing ability and he is not just anyone at the SC or that you reach on the '800' number at TM.....�
Oct 4, 2015
AnOutsider Also, aside from my personal interest, as a moderator I noticed more and more posts about the XC90 in various Model X threads, and having a singular thread helps corral that. Indeed, I've already seen one or two posters move their discussion here and out of other threads.
As for using the thread as a bargaining chip... For what? Tesla is likely to offer folding seats down the line, this thread isn't going to force that (I also think the X is more spacious than the XC90 for passengers anyway). We are passing on the XC, but did send our cancellation request in, so there's nothing to push Tesla on. We'll revisit the X in about half a year and see where things are.�
Oct 4, 2015
SwedishAdvocate [snip]
And:
I�m not a mod, but I�m guessing it's kind of hard to think of sub-forums for everything.
Anyway... Is there really a problem here?
What do you think the end result from a thread like this is going to be? I�m guessing on more informed customers. And I�m also guessing that most of the folks who are in the market for a new vehicle this size are going to choose the Model X.
Here are few threads where people compared the Model S to other vehicles. They all resulted in sales for the Model S.
Can't decide between Model S or Audi S6
Racked with indecision...
"Tesla is a Novelty Vehicle"...�
Oct 4, 2015
X-Wing I am constantly amazed by this forum. Your numbers are pure conjectures with no scientific basis and no supporting data. I am sure the automotive industry and insurance industry will be really interested in hearing how the these tests does not translate into real life.
Here are some data for the last gen XC90 from IIHS on driver death rate.
Disclaimer: No, I do not work for Volvo. I harshly criticized the small XC90 fuel tank.
Just another perspective vehicle buyer that is trying to be objective about a major purchase. Of course, I have been doing lots of research since the Model X unveil. Just wanna share my findings with this forum.�
Oct 4, 2015
SwedishAdvocate And isn�t it even more complicated than that?
Do we know if some people used any of the vehicles where people died to commit suicide by driving off a cliff or into rock wall etc?
- - - Updated - - -
First: When talking about Volvo Cars it�s important to separate Volvo Cars from Volvo Group.
AFAIK there aren�t (even) any significant Chinese minority ownership in Volvo Group.
But now that I�ve clarified that�
Maybe I�m splitting hairs here, but it�s actually even worse than that�
Volvo Cars is in fact owned by the Chinese state � which as we all know isn�t exactly a beacon of democracy�
Imagine how that feels for a Swede� :crying:
Source: Volvo V60 Plug-in Hybrid - Post #2 | TMC�
Oct 4, 2015
Yggdrasill I haven't said the XC90 is unsafe. But it has an engine in the crumple zone. In some situations that will affect the safety. Both the XC90 and the Model X can be expected to be extremely safe.
I thought that criticism was odd. The fuel tank is plenty big enough. I'd probably be covering around 60% of my milage with electricity, so with 4k miles/year on gas, and ~250 miles per fillup, that's 16 fillups per year.�
Oct 4, 2015
X-Wing Absolutely it is more complicated than that and both the Model X and XC90 are likely going to be the safest vehicles that one can buy. I said exactly that many time before.
What I find comical and even fanatical is that some on this forum will outright dismiss any positive aspects of a competing vehicle or to ignore actual data and form conclusions that is not based on science but conjectures out of thin air.
Also, let's not forget Saab. My eyes are literally getting wet.:crying::crying::crying:�
Oct 4, 2015
SwedishAdvocate I personally wonder if Tesla had moose collisions in consideration when they decided to make the current windscreen on the Model X standard. As this Elk/Moose Crash Test with that old Hyundai demonstrates, moose collisions are actually one potential accident type where a taller SUV vehicle has a significant safety advantage over a regular sized vehicle like a sedan or a station wagon � if the SUV has a conventional windscreen that is�
- - - Updated - - -
I know the feeling. :crying:�
Oct 4, 2015
X-Wing 1. First of all, we both agree XC90 and Model X are very safe cars. But the lack of ICE does make for an interest point.
I absolutely agree that Tesla in theory has a better starting point in designing frontal crumple zone. Have they done a better job protecting occupant in frontal crush is an entirely different matter. They certainly have with the Model S.
But let's not forget that automotive manufactures have decades of experience dealing with having an ICE engine up upfront (most of the time) and have done works to mitigate the effects.
Also interesting is how cargo in the frunk will affect the results. E.g. empty frunk vs 2 rims, vs 2 sets of golf clubs?
2. As to the small XC90 T8 fuel tank. A simplified comparison, the T6 has a longer range on long highway trips (18.8 x 25mpg = 470 miles). Even on a full battery and assume 20 mile EV range, the T8 needs to do (470-20)/13.2 = 34.1mpg on the highway to match the range of the T6.
Even without the parasitic lost of a conventional AWD system, I don't think the heavier XC90 T8 PHEV can do 34 mpg on the ICE. Yes, fueling a 50L tank takes just minutes, but combined with the limited amount of power that can be sent to the rear. The T8 seems less impressive and more of a compromise.�
Oct 4, 2015
FORGIVEN Well let me start off by saying my grammar is not the best, however I would like to contribute to this thread in hopes that I might be helpful J. I am not here to slam either car, just simply here to give my opinion, which is exactly that�. Just an opinion. J
My wife and I found out we were having twins in 2013 and that�s where our journey started. We were hoping to find the perfect SUV for a growing family. Like anything else It was a lot of money that we were going to spend so there was much research needed to be done. Soon as I caught wind that tesla would make an SUV I was ecstatic! Our current vehicles were a Volvo S40 and a little pickup and we knew these vehicles were only temporary. Anyone with children knows how much space kids require. So when the time came to reserve a model X we did!
Fast-forward and our kids were 11 months and outgrew the smaller car-seats and there was absolutely no room. It broke my heart because I knew what that meant; I had to cancel my reservation. I never faulted Tesla for the delays that took place becasue I agree with Elon�s philosophy of not putting out a product unless it is perfect. All that to say we ended up purchasing someone�s canceled 2016 XC90 reservation this last August. Out of the door it cost us around $76,000. We then had Mike at Appearance Solutions in Sacramento put Opti-Coat plus and a Full X-pel Ultimate package on it. I have driven the Vehicle 2500 miles and consistently get 19-20 city and 28-29 highway. I believe the interior quality is top notch, and all the features are fantastic. I really think Volvo executed this vehicle very well. The only thing is, It is not a Tesla.
There is not a day that goes by that I wish I would have held off just another 8 months. We cannot afford to trade in later for a Tesla, because this vehicle took most of our savings� and the amount we would loose on resale just would not make sense. Maybe in 15 years we will have enough saved again to buy the Model X. I believe the Volvo is only second to the Model X. Now with another kid on the way the model X�s space would be a tremendous help. Our twins stroller does not fit behind the 6[SUP]th[/SUP] and 7[SUP]th[/SUP] seat of the Volvo, but with the model X�s measurements out now, I know it could definitely fit behind the Model X�s 6[SUP]th[/SUP] and 7[SUP]th[/SUP] seat. Also having thee kids in car-seats the Model X�s 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] row configuration would make it so much easier on my wife to get the kids in and out of the vehicle. As of right now the Volvo is quite difficult to work with three large car-seats.
Finally when I factor in gas savings, and over all the cost of future parts for my XC90 the Tesla just makes sense. After test driving the Tesla, there is just something special about it that I just don�t get when I drive my Volvo. I Am trying not to sound ungrateful, but I truly wish I would have waited, or even rented another car Until My X came in. Now I have to live vicariously threw other owners J I still day dream that someone will offer me $70,000 for MY Volvo and I can still get my X. All this to say IF you are cross shopping the XC90 please just stick with the Tesla Model X, because although the Volvo is a wonderful SUV, it is not a Tesla and you will REGRET it. This is just a letter trying to keep you from making the mistake I made, a mistake I constantly regret�..�
Oct 4, 2015
EarlyAdopter To anyone considering cross-shopping the XC90 T8 plug-in hybrid with the Model X, I would highly recommend you test drive both a Volvo with a 4 cylinder start-stop engine and a Model S (since the X isn't available for test drives yet) to comapre the engine/motor experience.
I have a Model S, my wife has an XC60 with a V6 engine. I find her car quite nice, and that engine smooth and pleasant.
However, I recently drove a Volvo service loaner with a 4 cylinder start-stop, hybrid engine and I thought it was terrible.
Rough, lots of vibration, the whole car shuddered whenever it sprung back to life when lifting off the brake at a stoplight. Absolutely annoying. Nothing remotely like the totally smooth, quiet, Bentley V12-like experience of the Model S/X drivetrain.
No way I'd pay $80,000 for a car with a 4 cylinder engine, even if I was willing to accept buying another car with an ICE.�
Oct 4, 2015
Mtbtailor That' s the reason I'm considering the Merc GLE Hybrid's 6cilinder gas engine . Scheduling a testdrive.
But will wait till I can also test a Model X�
Oct 4, 2015
Lyon One up front and one in the second row. I tried to look for one in the third row but didn't find one. They're may be one in the cargo area.
Yeah, 12V USB adapters are great, I just prefer not having a kludge in a car that's new for 2015. Also, the 12V and USB up front are buried in the center console storage under the armrest.�
Oct 4, 2015
AdamSM Here's a write-up I did of my comparison (for my purposes, which may not match yours) of the available information on Model S vs. Model X vs. plug-in hybrid Volvo XC90 a few weeks ago:
Tesla Model S, without jump seats in the back: This is a big, 5-seat sedan. With the panoramic roof option, there's lots of space in the front seats. (Without, I'm too tall, so it's a little uncomfortable--this is true for many cars.) The back seats have a fair amount of space--3 big adults across would be very tight, although possible for short trips. I bet one adult, one young teen, and one child would be okay, which means that it would be pretty good throughout the likely usage life-time. (If we have to get a new car in 9 or 10 years, that's fine.) Has a great short-trip range (over 200 miles), and can be used for long-distance travel with free recharging on the road... but the network of Superchargers still has some serious problems (most notably the long barren stretch of I-80 in Pennsylvania, for our purposes), so we would often need to take a meaningfully longer route (say a 14 hour drive instead of a 12 hour drive) with lots of reasonable (half hour ish) stops to recharge along the way--it could easily add several hours of total travel time to a 12 hour trip. Available in all-wheel drive. Excellent safety--good but not necessarily best around crash avoidance (Autonomous Emergency Braking system, adaptive cruise control, lane departure warning, good camera system, inconveniently located but present blind-spot warning), excellent crash test results, ridiculously good avoidance of roll-overs, excellent subjective crash avoidance handling in Consumers Reports testing. Also extraordinarily expensive (roughly twice the cost of the Ford Fusion Energi, three times the cost of some of the small cars), but within the range that we could afford, although it would certainly bite into the money we have for other things. Has a very high awesome factor.
Tesla Model S, with jump seats in the back: this adds two small rear-facing child seats in the hatchback area. The upside is that, while the kids are small enough to use them, a seating pattern like 2-2-1 or 2-2-2 is likely to be very comfortable. It also makes guests feasible (say, an adult friend, their child, and our whole family all fitting in the car at once) Downsides: less storage space even when folded up; we'd probably need an external storage pod on the roof for long-distance travel with the seats in use, which has efficiency costs and adds extra expense; some kids get motion sickness when facing backwards; some reports that those seats can get very (perhaps dangerously?) hot. Otherwise, the same as the Tesla Model S without jump seats.
Tesla Model X: We don't have full details on this yet, but it's a roomier, bigger Model S. It would cost a little more, but frankly, an extra $5000 of cost isn't likely to break the bank. Somewhat less efficient than the Model S (maybe 10% less efficiency and range at a given point). Should have lots of space--7 adult seats (2-3-2), where 2-2-2 should be very comfortable and 2-3-2 may still be comfortable. All wheel drive standard. Safety information not available yet. (ETA: Tesla says internal safety testing shows extraordinarily good safety results, but no external crash test data is available yet.) We would probably get a delivery in the first half of 2016, which is late but would be okay--but the delivery could be delayed. New orders are looking at the second half of 2016. I expect it to be comparably safe to the Model S, but perhaps less so because of higher center of gravity (but perhaps not meaningfully so, because the battery pack is still most of the weight and evenly distributed around the bottom of the vehicle).
Volvo XC90 plug-in hybrid SUV: This is a mid-sized luxury SUV (i.e. a very large vehicle) that is a plug-in hybrid. It's supposed to have an all electric range of 25 miles or so. It looks like it may have anemic power in all electric mode given the size of the vehicle--I don't need the (stupidly good) acceleration of the Model S, but I'd rather not have worse acceleration than my current Prius. An 87 horsepower electric motor is not a lot to move a 5000 lb. vehicle. It seats 7 adults--probably quite comparable in space to the Model X, but perhaps a little roomier. It's not clear how efficient it is in EV mode. Some reports suggest 59 mpge, which isn't very good, but some claim in the ballpark of 100 mpge, which is comparable to the Tesla Model S. Official numbers aren't out yet. It's basically not available yet, but supposed to be available real soon now--I view it as comparable to the Model X in this regard, but it might have a faster progression to wide availability. It has probably the best crash avoidance technology of any vehicle I've looked at, and the ICE version does extremely well on crash tests (better than the Model S in some regards, at least in the European crash tests), but it gets good but not great marks on roll-over avoidance (it's a top-heavy SUV, after all). It is a gas guzzler in non-EV mode--with the ICE providing the power, it gets about 25 mpg highway, 20 mpg city, which is pretty terrible. It's a little cheaper than the Tesla (probably 10% cheaper in the configuration we'd get, although maybe a little less once tax incentives are taken into account), but in the same ballpark--my belief is that the total cost of ownership, counting gas for long road trips, would be a little higher than the Tesla. All wheel drive is standard--I'm not sure if it can do all wheel drive in EV mode, though, so that may require using the ICE when driving around in snowy conditions.
---
My take away is that the Volvo XC90 hybrid probably is much less green than it appears to be. I suspect, but we'll need to do a test drive to confirm, that the electric mode is very hard to use for routine travel, so even driving a local commute is probably often going to involve some gas usage. And the ICE is not efficient, so if it kicks in to add acceleration or to go up a hill, the overall efficiency probably drops a lot. Plus, any long-range travel will be very inefficient, running around 25 MPG. If I can test-drive a XC90 hybrid, I will do so, but I currently think it's entirely the wrong car for me.�
Không có nhận xét nào:
Đăng nhận xét