Nov 9, 2013
yobigd20 Sorry. Previous car was a Range Rover Evoque. Premium fuel only. Averaged 19mpg. I drive 1100+miles/week.
Doing the math, spending $4/gallon for premium fuel (even higher in other parts of the country) plus oil changes will always end up costing more than an electric car given enough mileage. You could get a Nissan versa at $11k and that'll still cost more than a $100k loaded Model S over time, albeit with many many many miles. That is my point.
Now, that being said, the total cost for me for the RR plus sales tax was about $62k. Try doing 1000 (rounding down) miles a week in at 19mpg for $4/gallon. That about $11k/year in fuel. At 300Wh/mile that same distance would be 15,600kW. If you pay CA .05/kW that'd cost you $780 vs that $11k. If you are near a supercharger perhaps it is all free. If you have solar perhaps it is all free. If your work has charging perhaps that is all free. I actually charge 50/50 (half at work for free, half at home). My rate is .17c/kW total. That comes out to about $2600 if I charged 100% at home. Since i do 50/50 my real cost is only $1300 for that mileage/year. That translates to roughly $10k a year in gas savings. Oh yeah, that doesn't even factor in the oil changes I would have needed in the ICE, nor the $230/month I save in green pass ezpass tolls. So that's at least another $2760 savings a year on top of the other $10k.
Add that up plus the original cost of the vehicle - $62k RR +$13.7k/yr vs $102k P85 ($95k after rebate) + $1.3k/yr, honestly in 3 years the total cost of ownership for me will be cheaper than if I had kept the RR.
Now the Prius' MSRP might be cheaper, and it has "ok" fuel efficiency. But after about 6-7 years...
suddenly the $100k P85 is looking cheaper than a Prius or any other car for that manner. (An if you had base S85 obviously even moreso)
Most people don't actually add all these numbers up and realize the true total cost of ownership.....
So if given the choice between buying and driving a Prius for 7 years vs a Tesla Model S, and factoring in that the Prius' total cost of ownership is more than the Model S, what would you choose? IMO the Prius isn't cool enough to justify the extra expensive over the Model S. Nor is it faster. Nor is it silent. Nor does it handle like a sports car. Nor does it have [insert cool ass Tesla feature here].�
Nov 9, 2013
neroden And there you go. The most crucial factor in TCO of a pure electric car vs. a hybrid vs. a gasoline car is how much you drive per week. The Model S has a high TCO if you don't drive much per week (like me), but if you drive a huge amount (like you), the Model S *CAN* pay for itself in fuel savings.�
Nov 9, 2013
David_Cary Except that at 50k miles/year, the Tesla will depreciate fairly quickly and you haven't factored that high depreciation in.
I'll guess you keep the car 2 years and a 2 year old Model S with 100k miles is probably worth 50% of new at best. So going with the original title, the depreciation is $47k. It is really really hard to get a Prius to depreciate $47k.
Guessing the battery can go 150k miles and you can keep the car and pay $40k every 3 years to replace the battery at $13k per year battery cost.
As a general rule in 2013, battery depreciation roughly equals gasoline cost. Now you can compare a 10mpg car to a Tesla and win out but you can never beat a 50 mpg car.
Make your comparable car a 535d at 30 mpg. Fairly fast, comfortable, luxurious and your diesel bill for 50k miles is closer to $7k. Very hard to come up with a scenario where battery depreciation is less than that.
Oh but the battery warranty! I don't believe degradation is covered so when your range is 50% of new at 150k miles, Tesla will say that is normal - and they are right. I'll bet that 130 miles of range won't get you 1100 miles per week - unless you supercharge almost every day - that would be fun....
Solar is never "free" just prepaid. If you have excess capacity and lose it, you made a bad financial decision in the past. Supercharging everyday or frequently would be a time sink. I suppose there are a few people would could be fully productive the entire time they are charging and driving to the charge station - but most probably can't.�
Nov 9, 2013
neroden Depreciation is only a guess at this point. A wild-ass guess.
You've done the calculations wrong. If I'm not mistaken, yobigd20 was assuming *no* residual value for the cars in his comparison. Think about it again. You might come out with better TCO if the Prius has a higher residual value than the Model S, but do you really believe that's possible?
Really, even a very expensive electric car can pay for itself if you drive an enormous number of miles but can tolerate the low range. Almost all of us do not drive nearly enough, of course.
As for your other assessment, you're assuming the model S battery will die extra-quickly. Does the high usage of the batteries make the batteries wear out faster? Well, maybe? Who knows? Nobody's owned any of them long enough to be sure, so that's a risk, certainly.
However, there's some evidence that the batteries retain most of their viability even after a very large number of charge cycles -- so we'll see. It seems almost certain that the rest of the car will last longer than a comparable gasoline car. My guess is that the battery will last a lot longer than you think it will. But we're both guessing.
Now, here's the final point: *if you don't need a long range* then it may be just fine to have batteries with 50% of range. So again, the ideal candidate (economically) to buy a Model S drives a very large number of miles but in very short loops to and from home. Say, multiple 120 mile trips every day. Most of us don't do that, but for the rare weirdo who does, it makes economic sense.
Sure, diesels do better. But where do you fill it up? :wink: Diesel cars are far more annoying to "charge" than electric cars and diesel *isn't* universal at gas stations.�
Nov 9, 2013
yobigd20 Correct. I assume $0 residual value in very car I have ever owned. Any $$$ I get when selling it is pure profit to me lol
Exactly. Elon stated a few months ago that one of their test cars has over 500,000 miles on it and still running strong. Roadster owners also experienced much better battery capacity than had been stated in specs. I expect very little battery degradation to occur based on mileage. Elon knows this too, which is why they've stated over and over again not to worry about the battery.
Hey! You just called me a weirdo! lol
My commute is 100+ miles each way daily. So 200+ miles/day plus weekend driving. I actually met a roadster owner a few weeks ago that does 130miles each way , so 260 mile daily commute (I thought I drove a lot!) and he's seen no battery or degradation issues.
I did range charge a few weeks ago around 25000 miles and got 265 miles rated range. So I'm also seeing 0 degradation. Running great! Except for that balloon squeal whine when I punch it that still needs to get fixed lol�
Nov 9, 2013
jerry33 Why would that be? Seems to me that you would gain just as much during trips as close to home.�
Nov 9, 2013
Nathan Smith Well...
I listed the MSRP for the Prius (you quoted it) as 39K, which I got from thier website. Also looking at my calculations, you are $35K down after 5 years. We can argue about price of gas, oil changes vs maintence plan, and other maintenance cost after both cars are out of warranty; the end result is the TCO between these two vehicles aren't going to come close until after year 10 given the Tesla is being driven 120-150 miles a day.
I also take exception to reducing TCO by *free* sources of electricty (outside of the superchargers which are part of the cost of the car) as SOMEONE is paying those cost. If your employer is paying them for you, great for you - but don't take that away from the cost of operating the car. The ezpass thing you also mentioned is very area specific (having been through most of the country with the military, I haven't seen that exception outside of CA). And as mentioned, you prepaid for electricy from your solar arrays.
I am a proud owner of my Model S - but I make no bones about the purchase price dwarfing any savings I get in fuel vs cars I previously owned (ie: honda). And people try to make that leap a lot. Now for your Range Rover, which is a much more expense and inefficient vehicle the math work out better. But of course you also went from a SUV to a sedan.�
Nov 9, 2013
yobigd20 I said 1100 miles a week. 200 mile daily commute plus wkd. So my calculations are correct.
And besides, the difference between me paying 100% vs 0% in electricity is negligible compared to the price of gas. Even if I paid 100% at my current rate I'm still saving over $10k/year. Total cost of ownership for a Prius is still more expensive than a Model S.�
Nov 9, 2013
Nathan Smith Please forgive me if I am slow (I am known to be that at times),
but I thought your calculations were done against a Range Rover (19 miles/gallon and requires expensive gas) not against a prius (50 miles/gallon not the expensive gas). Could you please clarify for me?�
Nov 9, 2013
RoverS again... if you have to crunch the numbers to this extent -- it means you CAN NOT AFFORD IT!!!
stop trying to rationalize it.�
Nov 9, 2013
liuping I know many people whoa can easily afford a Tesla, who like to "crunch the numbers". Interest in the TCO of a car is not a sign of lack of wealth.�
Nov 10, 2013
SwedishAdvocate Have you read the thread?�
Nov 10, 2013
yobigd20 it doesn't matter what kind of car you compare it against. electric cars will always have lower TCO than any ICE car.�
Nov 10, 2013
David_Cary And that statement just shows that some people can't listen to rational thought or they are really prone to hyperbole.
While it is possible if the battery lasts for more charge cycles than any other prior Li battery and you drive a lot, the TCO will be better. But in the vast majority of driving situations, a Tesla will cost more over time than a Prius. Obviously the driving experience is vastly different but it comes at a price.
Even just little things like the $600 maintenance charge per year that can get a Prius 7500 miles in gas. The interest on the $70k upcharge at 2% is $1400 a year or 350 gallons or 17,500 miles per year. Just interest + maintenance gets a Prius 25k miles per year or the 97th percentile of driving distance. Maintenance on a Prius - less than the electricity charge even if you charge at work half the time.
Depreciation is nearly always the highest component of TCO. It is really hard to recover from a $95k depreciation schedule.�
Nov 10, 2013
Nathan Smith This stateement is just flat out wrong. I know we all love our cars, but come on. Let's start with a definition, shall we?
TCO - The TCO concept is widely used in the transportation industry. For example, the TCO defines the cost of owning an automobile from the time of purchase by the owner, through its operation and maintenance to the time it leaves the possession of the owner. (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_Cost_of_Ownership )
Thus if I keep my Model S for 4 years, I can't see any realistic scenario where I could drive enough to even make the TCOs close. And that's ignoring depreciation. Even if you are saving $10K a year in energy, the numbers aren't close. BTW: 50K miles a year would cost $4k in fuel for the prius (50 miles per gallon, $4 per gallon gas), so you can't even save the 10K at that amount of driving. If we continue on this examination - It goes back to my earlier post... You would have to own the Model S a MIN of 10 years and drive it 50K per year to even get the TCOs close.�
Nov 10, 2013
jerry33 The Prius also costs $600 per year to maintain. That's assuming you actually do preventive maintenance and don't just change the oil and drive it into the ground. The main difference in operating costs is tires. From my numbers (based on 146,689 miles of 2004 Prius driving).
Fuel: 5 cents per mile (based on the actual cost of gas that I purchased. My lifetime average was 59.7 mpg).
2004 Prius MPG from the logbook:
2003-2004 -- 50.8 mpg 17,628 miles
2005 -- 52.6 mpg 14,688 miles
2006 -- 56.3 mpg 16,174 miles
2007 -- 57.3 mpg 18,384 miles
2008 -- 59.9 mpg 21,755 miles
2009 -- 61.4 mpg 16,177 miles
2010 -- 65.2 mpg 12,134 miles
2011 -- 66.9 mpg 11,272 miles
2012 -- 69.2 mpg 16,212 miles
Another way of looking at the numbers:
2004 Prius delivered Oct 15, 2003.
12 months prior to Oct 2004
Gas: $466.13 Miles: 13,333 $/mile: $0.0350
Cost of gas based on 16,000 miles: $559.37
12 months prior to Oct 2005
Gas: $686.77 Miles: 16,631 $/mile: $0.0413
Cost of gas based on 16,000 miles: $660.71
12 months prior to Oct 2006
Gas: $708.38 Miles: 14,716 $/mile: $0.0481
Cost of gas based on 16,000 miles: $770.19
12 months prior to Oct 2007
Gas: $825.08 Miles: 17,963 $/mile: $0.0459
Cost of gas based on 16,000 miles: $734.92
12 months prior to Oct 2008
Gas: $889.01 Miles: 15,855 $/mile: $0.0561
Cost of gas based on 16,000 miles: $897.14
12 months prior to Oct 2009
Gas: $774.33 Miles: 20,641 $/mile: $0.0375
Cost of gas based on 16,000 miles: $600.23
12 months prior to Oct 2010
Gas: $613.65 Miles: 14,589 $/mile: $0.0421
Cost of gas based on 16,000 miles: $673.00
12 months prior to Oct 2011
Gas: $522.04 Miles: 10,606 $/mile: $0.0511
Cost of gas based on 16,000 miles: $817.71
12 months prior to Oct 2012
Gas: $857.03 Miles: 16,024 $/mile: $0.0535
Cost of gas based on 16,000 miles: $855.75
Up to February 26, 2013 fill
Gas: $259.00 Miles: 5,458 $/mile: $0.0475
Cost of gas based on 16,000 miles: $759.25
Model S delivered Mar 2, 2013. Stopped logging the Prius.
Maintenance: 7 cents per mile (includes tires). Total maintenance cost: $10,161.95.
For the Model S, fuel is 2.5 to 3 cents per mile and maintenance will be under 7 cents per miles because the amount of driving per year will likely be higher. However, the maintenance doesn't include tires in this case.
Basically, the Prius will cost me less to drive than the Model S. But so what? The Prius also costs less to drive than a Mercedes or BMW.�
Nov 10, 2013
David_Cary I am shocked you could actually spend $600 on a Prius maintenance.
My only comparable is 80k miles on a Honda Civic. I did 8 oil changes, synthetic at $50 a pop - $400. I bought some tranny fluid and did myself but I'll give you $200 for that.
So on an HCH it was $600 - for 5 years. Sure I am not counting tire rotations and alignments. For a lot of people that is fair given location from Tesla SC but we can add that in at 2 alignments and 4 rotations - $200. Sure it probably should been double. So you get around $1000 for 5 years.�
Nov 10, 2013
huntjo Of course model S will sometimes calculate to have higher TCO than a Prius...
It is larger
It is a premium sedan that seats 5 adults and 2 kids
It's performance is sick, and the tech is futuristic.
Why is this even debated? The cars are in different classes. What you probably mean to do is compare a Prius with a Leaf which is comparable functionality.
As for my answer to the OP: I couldn't justify a $95k car... So I got a $112k car, lol�
Nov 11, 2013
jerry33 I have no idea. The only real question is how much more. I don't think it's all that much more. About the same as a Prius compared to a Camry.�
Nov 20, 2013
DanielG My old Prius with 187k miles got a bit long in the tooth. Was casually looking around for options with the following parameters:
- >100 miles/gal: check
- reasonable safety (no Smart): at the time (Jan 2013) NTSB rating was not out yet, but the frunk engineered for safety due to lack of engine made a big impression.
- needs to accommodate trip to the hardware store. Check.
My main concern was that it was too ostentatious. But as overall cost for long term ownership is comparable to a Camry (some online calculator somewhere), that is not that bad. Additionally, nerds support nerds. I am not a car guy, but I appreciate folks standing up for what they believe in and to experiment with something new.
In pure $ and c it may not make sense, but as this is not a major concern for me, I went for it. Just a regular 85, reasonably loaded, but nevertheless. Don't regret it a second.�
May 2, 2014
AC1K Quite simple, since I am single, I just got one........ actually its much more complicated
now normally i wouldn't spend more than $40K CAD on a car, my old vehicle was $32K CAD
so for me to buy a new vehicle it must be an upgrade to my old vehicle in nearly every way, my old vehicle is as follows
2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe
306HP
Regular oil and Regular fuel
6 Speed
RWD
Limited Slip Diff
25MPG (what i get city driving)
Bluetooth/USB/VoiceCmd/etc
>4.5 Star crash rating
>5yr powertrain warranty (this was half accomplished as the pack has an 8yr warranty)
so to upgrade i would need all of those specs to be better, but more than >300 HP & >25MPG made the Tesla the only real upgrade as no other car could accomplish that.
The only upgrade to RWD would be AWD, im never going to a FWD again.
I was very skeptical about going back to an automatic, the 6 speed is not really about "gears" but speed control, precise power delivery and the reduction of brake use, that being said, nothing comes close to how the Tesla is setup.
Oil and Fuel? lol no brainer
crash rating? yep, nothing comes close
now the money is a big problem as I am just a "Helpdesk Guy" at the time of looking for a new car i was making $64K/yr, all normal financial advice would say no, but i still wanted to make it happen since this is my chance to contribute to a change for the better.
I still had a mortgage of ~$100K but no payments on the genesis so i just went "full throttle" paying off my mortgage before putting a down payment on the Tesla
Cut all expenses literally except cell phone and internet (no going out period, no eating out)
cell phone plan is $35/mo unlimited calling/data on Wind Mobile, internet was $50/mo
got another side job fixing computers, unlocking blackberries, misc computer related stuff
eventually i got it down too...
100% of my main jobs paycheck going to the mortgage
100% of any gifted money from birthdays and Christmas went straight into the house
50-70% of my side job's income going to the mortgage
sold everything in my house i didn't touch in 3 months (computers, furniture, stuff around the garage)
nearing the delivery of the Tesla i sold my Genesis to my Dad since he wanted to drive a stick shift again, it was a big chunk off the mortgage with that one.
offered to wash peoples cars for $15 on my drive way (no soap of course but i made those cars look like it just came out of the factory)
the rest was for utility bills, house and car insurance and food
I was able to clear the mortgage in about 15 months, but cheated and put a despot on the Tesla around the 9 month mark, but now i am mortgage free with only $70K owing on the Tesla after 1 year, so i think i'm doing good, original purchase price was $121.5K CAD.
Once i pay off my car ill try and buy another Tesla for my parents, or the other way around, ill buy one for myself and give my old Tesla to my parents like i did with the Genesis, this is assuming the new Tesla has AWD, 600HP, etc, etc.
In the end, TOTALLY WORTH IT.�
May 2, 2014
sub You brought this thread back from the dead. Nice job though, you made the commitment and sacrificed to get the car and normally buying a car that cost that much on your salary would be a bad idea, but you clearly have the discipline to get it paid off quickly and have it not be detrimental to your long term finances. If my wife and I were that willing to sacrifice everything as you did the car would be an easy purchase. I'm in debt pay off mode but also like to have a big cash reserve, makes sleeping at night much easier.
If the rest of this year stays on track I want to get a good look at and test drive the X. If we decide we like that X I may be willing to put down a deposit, the long wait will actually be a good thing. We have already put 14k miles on our latest car in ~6 months so the Tesla would cut costs there, my concern is there are still not enough superchargers even in California to make it work worry free, need 3-4 more in Norcal, there are not many in the central valley and zero in the foothills/east side of the state.�
May 2, 2014
jthompson I'm going to own this car for 20 years (my last car, a 1987 IROC Z, I owned for 23 years!), so at $5000 a year it's a bargain!�
May 2, 2014
nakedsushi I'm not a big car person at all, but after the test drive, I _must_ have this car. I'm passing my current car (2013 Prius) on to my husband, he's going to sell our old 2005 Corolla. I plan to never buy a car for myself ever again. I also hate taking cars in for service/oil change, so the cutdown on service on the MS was a plus for me.�
May 2, 2014
DieAbetic Same boat here, but I also some student loans to still pay off. Wife and I make enough to swing the financing if we put 10-20%+ down, but we need to keep our emergency cash reserve to sleep at night. Going to put down a reservation on a Model X, and keep in touch with Tesla rep just in case an inventory Model S pops up sooner with everything we want at a decent price.
I like the S (and I'm impatient), wife likes the X. Wife usually gets what she wants... lol�
May 2, 2014
gavine So did the OP buy one or not? The suspense is killing me.�
May 2, 2014
GDH If the bank approves it, it's justified!....that's my motto!�
May 2, 2014
bareyb sub is the OP. Sounds like he's waiting for the Model X.�
May 2, 2014
scaesare How do you justify a $95K car?
�
May 2, 2014
Madartist @sub: In case you haven't discovered this yet, here's a recent thread and story about "why a Model S is cheaper than a Honda Odyssey." From a financial standpoint, buying a new car, any new car, is not the best use of the financial resources. Having said that, most of us brought a Tesla simply because WE LOVE IT.�
May 2, 2014
Skotty From my point of view, it's not just buying a car. It's investing in the future of all mankind.
For sustainability. For moving emissions off the streets. For reducing unnecessary noise. For reducing emissions due to efficiency and the growing ability to use clean energy sources. For advancing the frontiers of technology. For supporting a man and company with a dream of making the world a better place, and not just making more money. To support a man who put his entire fortune on the line for the dream. For something that inspires us. For a company that represents the best in all of us. For a mission that shows our children they can change the world, and a brighter future is within reach.
As an additional bonus, you also get a really nice car.�
May 2, 2014
JonathanD I couldn't justify 95k. That's why I got a 60�
May 2, 2014
eciti.com I can't do any better than that, Skotty. You pretty much read my mind.�
May 2, 2014
Zythryn Damn Skotty, we ought to put that on billboards!�
May 2, 2014
bareyb I'd say Skotty hit the main points for me too. Well said.�
May 3, 2014
StephenM Well said, Skotty. Supporting Elon and his vision is definitely a factor.�
May 3, 2014
jerry33 Skotty's reason was a big factor for me too. Supporting someone who was actually doing something.�
May 3, 2014
MitchL My justification in a nutshell:
- it's a car designed and built right here in Silicon Valley, the way we do things out here.
- I'll be part of the first generation that leaves internal combustion behind.
- powered by the sun, no noise, no emissions.
- my wife amazingly said "yes". Don't know what possessed her, but that part was my favorite
I was a signature buyer towards the end, it was a leap of faith for me but nothing like the early sig and especially the roadster owners who were true believers (thank you, by the way!)
It was absolutely insane for me to spend this kind of money on a car. I've driven minivans the past 15 years. The day we drove the Model S home, all regret about the money vaporized instantly, and I'm never going back to gas. People ask me: "Is that your tesla?" I respond: "yes, that's my first tesla."
/Mitch.�
May 3, 2014
AmpedRealtor +1 Skotty!
I could not justify my purchase on paper. My Prius hit 122,000 miles and I knew it was time to move on. I made a promise to myself in 2010, halfway through my Prius ownership, that my next car would be all electric. In May of 2013, Tesla announced financing for Model S which made it a viable option for me. I started researching it, and those at TM forums will tell you that I had gone through quite a decision making process. In the end, I spent double what I had otherwise considered spending on my Prius replacement. Ultimately for me, it was more important to support Tesla's vision and to live the change in my own life that I want to see in the world around me.
The turning point for me was when, on a whim, I sent an email to Elon Musk asking some questions about the car. The next morning I received a prompt reply from Mr. Musk himself. This reminded me of the time many years ago when I received a personal email response from Steve Jobs regarding an issue with my Mac Pro. The idea that the CEO of Tesla would take a few minutes out of his day to answer questions from a nobody realtor in Arizona instantly sold me on this car, this company.
I paid extra, much more than my financial advisor would say was smart, in order to be an example and show others - including friends and family - that we can do better than oil. If we don't collectively get behind this sort of change, it will never happen. Not everything has to make sense on paper and offer a payback, there are some things that are more important than that and which deserve our financial support. The extra money paid is nothing when you consider that we are helping fund the next generation of transportation for our children and grandchildren, and to help them breathe cleaner and healthier air.�
May 3, 2014
gene I agree with this 1,000%�
May 3, 2014
mibaro2 +1 Skotty.�
May 3, 2014
AbeFromin if you can truly afford it, you don't need to justify anything.�
May 3, 2014
smsprague I did not try and justify the S85 I just ordered, but this got me thinking.
I am a hatchback guy. So that narrows the field. My Model S is $96,000 (tax and 5 year license). License is a big saving in Arizona, a similar car would be $5,000 to $6,000 for 5 years, the Model S is only about $150. I spend about $2,000 a year on Gas. All my electric is Solar and I don't use it all so it will cost me nothing to charge the Model S. So to back into a comparable car based on a 5 year horizon.
$96,000
($7,500) Tax Credit
($5,500) 5 Year License
($10,000) Fuel
$73,000 or at 8.1% sales tax it is about like a $67,500 car.
I only buy hatchbacks so for that I could get a Audi A7 TDI or BMW Grand Turismo. Both nice cars but I will take the Tesla Model S.�
May 3, 2014
MrIanB I am single so I don't have to justify my purchases to no one.
Ian B�
May 3, 2014
Canuck I think the point is justifying it to yourself, whether single, married, divorced, civil union, or whatever else. I'm married but I don't need to justify any purchases to my wife. She knows that when I buy something I have thought it out and vise versa. It's the "thought it out" part this thread is about.�
May 3, 2014
smsprague Agreed as long as you have permission�
May 3, 2014
mgdurand Hm... I had been wanting to build an electric car or motorcycle for decades but never got around to it. Did biodiesel, SVO, etc, etc. Then I got kind of a surprise work bonus, did some research over a few months and bought one. I drive a lot so $110K seemed like an ok thing. I've worked hard my whole life, it's not like I sit around watching TV and just got lucky on real estate or something. So I bought it, and despite my usual thrifty nature have had not one instance of remorse. YMMV.�
May 4, 2014
EarlyAdopter How I justified it:
Model S Performance 85 - $103,000 (in Dec 2012)
minus $7500 federal credit
minus $10,000 in no WA state sales tax on EVs
minus $20,000 in gas savings over the next 10 years
equals $65,500 equivalent gas car.
Value to me over 10 years to never have to take 10 minutes out of my busy day to go to a noisy, cold, smelly, dirty, inconvenient gas station ever again: $100 x 52 weeks x 10 years = $52,000
Final cost of a Model S Performance to me in comparison to an ICE: $13,000.
Value of car I get for the money: $103,000
YMMV, but for me it was a no brainer.
Plus, I'm an engineer and big on efficiency, so an EV motor has a particular appeal to me. I'm also a gear head, so the torque profile of an EV motor also has a particular appeal to me. I also care about the environment, our scarce resources, and conflict over oil, so an EV has a particular appeal to me. The reasons just keep adding up.
How I justified it to my wife - not having to hear me go on and on about Teslas any more.
(Ok, so that one didn't actually pan out after all, since I'm every bit as obsessed after the purchase as before!)�
May 4, 2014
jcadman22 This: And the day was going so well...
I have the rear-facing seats and my kids love riding back there. Besides the Model S being rated as one of the safest cars on road, I now have some proof that my kids sit in practically the safest place in the safest car.
And it's a really great car!�
May 4, 2014
astrotoy If you are a certain age, do you really want your kids to be buying Teslas with your money after your gone (minus 40% over a certain level) when you haven't had the fun?�
May 5, 2014
tliving Since this thread came back to life, here's how I justified it to myself (and the wife!):
Cost Justification a tie? | Tesla Living�
May 5, 2014
Shumdit
I think that's a double negative. Being a high school drop out I could be mistaken.
- - - Updated - - -
Does a BEV get a break on the license costs in AZ?�
May 7, 2014
Footer No matter how rich your neighbor is, he will not have a better car than you. :smile:
I probably skew on the old side of most Tesla buyers. I was wondering if I should wait until all the minor issues are sorted out. Then I realized if I wait long enough I'll miss out on a lot of fun driving.
S85, MC Red, Tan, Obeche Matte, Tech, Parking, Subzero Confirmed May 6, 2014�
May 7, 2014
sub someone answered a few pages back, but yes I am the OP. I actually have been ok passing on the Model S for now until reading these last few pages. When I was trying to make the decision I wasn't completely sure how many miles we would be driving, my wife had just taken a new job where she would be traveling a couple of days a week. We also have had extra travel with my daughter playing traveling sports and this will only increase. We ended up getting a BMW 335 Diesel to get us by, we already have 15,000 miles on it in about 6 months. I think I under estimated how much we would be driving.
That being said and I mentioned this in my last post, where my wife has to travel for work I think there could still be some charging issues. The new Roseville ca Supercharger just opened (I received email) so that helps, but there are not enough superchargers in the Napa/Chico/Ukiah area for some of her trips. Also, Tesla has chosen smartly to put superchargers up on the west side of the state, but i'm on the east side in the foothills so it's not ideal yet.
I agree that we need to get behind Tesla for the future, that is why i'm a shareholder and have struggled with buying a car in this price range. I will own a Tesla, just not sure if it will be in 6 months or 3 years.�
May 7, 2014
CDT I am usually very frugal when it comes to cars. The Model S changed that. The price is and issue for me but I want to keep driving an electric car and the MS is the only one with enough range. The Leaf worked, but it was frustrating to have a great car that was not convenient for 80 mile round trips. The Tesla is a game changer. The stigma of owning such an expensive vehicle will be a problem until pick mine up next week and drive it home on the back roads of Marin. The same roads that I had to watch my speed on with the Leaf. I am smiling already.
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sub,
you will never want to touch a diesel pump again after owning and electric car. Turned in my Leaf 5/3 and can't wait to get out of my gas guzzling Prius. The stench of a gas pump, especially diesel, is very unappealing after not doing it for three years. Yes I have owned a diesel. If you can do it go for the Tesla. I don't thing you'll be sorry.�
May 8, 2014
Pate Interesting, I also drive a Hyundai Genesis Coupe (although 2011 model) at the moment (still a week or two until I get my MS)!
I had already decided I want a Tesla Model S even before I purchased my Genesis (back in April 2011), and the Genesis was actually a planned stepping stone towards MS. My first powerful rear wheel drive car, and also my first vehicle with an automatic transmission, both of which I wanted to learn to handle before getting the expensive MS. Also back in 2011 my previous car was starting to fall apart and it looked like it would take years before the MS would come to Finland.
As for justification, I just think an electric car makes much more sense than a petrol car, and same as you, I did not want to trade down in performance or looks when switching from an ICE car to an electric car, so a Tesla Model S is the only choice. I don't like SUVs, so it will always be either a coupe or a sedan for me, thanks.
By the way, my MS will be my first 4-door car, all my prior cars have been 2-door coupes.�
May 8, 2014
Alysashley79 I owned a Honda Pilot before buying my model S. At the time the pilot did it's job as a soccer mom car. But it was 8 years old and had 180,000 miles on it. It was starting to break down a lot and was getting to the point that it was almost spending as much time at my mechanics as it was at my house. I should also note that I did a lot of in town driving in addition to just putting a lot of miles on my car. To the. Extent of paying between $800-$1000 each month in gas just for the Pilot. So my husband and I sat down looked at all our records and this is how we came to our decision.
Cost of honda pilot new. $30,000 (inc tax and lic)
cost of gas for Pilot over the 180,000 $43,000 (we have a business so we have all the receipts)
Cost of Maintence for Pilot over 180,000 $21,000 (includes Maintence as well as tires)
total for Honda $94,000
so as you can see over the 8 years I had this car I spent more on gas than I did on the he cost of hath car and yes I actually DID spend that much I didn't just plug a random number out here I have every receipt I ever pulled out of a gas machine in my computer filed away for the IRS and honestly was shocked when I put this all together to see that my original $30,000 actually ended up costing me more than a model S would. We realized that we fully into to keep the MS for a long time. We love their and love everything about it so we looked at it like we'd be paying for all the things up front vs paying for it over time. I've already put 15,000 miles on my MS and have had it for 6 months that would be about $6000 I would have spent in gas and I've spent roughly $360 in electricity.�
May 8, 2014
CliffG There's no doubt the financial threshold is something to deal with. But like Skotty, I felt there were more issues to consider, like - ICE vehicles are still using what I think of as paleolithic technology to provide motion: just burning something. Personally, I don't want to think of myself as still being a caveman when it comes to transportation (no references to the GEICO ad campaign, please). I'm pretty sure this opinion could be seen as inflammatory (no pun intended), and I don't want to start any arguments. But there it is.
Also, like others here, I'm on the back side of the hill, age-wise, and had to ask myself: "what are you waiting for?" Deferred gratification has its place, but after a while you've deferred long enough. I've reached that point.�
May 9, 2014
Spencer513 Some of it depends on which state you live in as well. For instance, the state of Georgia has a $5,500 tax incentive as well as the use of the HOV lane. Everyone knows that the HOV lane has added benefits during traffic, even though it may not be financial benefits.�
May 9, 2014
mnx Nice choice in getting the 335d.
That was the car I bought in 2010 while waiting for my Model S to be built.
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May 9, 2014
joefee TDS = Tesla Derangement Syndrome, onset upon deposit for Signature Performance Model S what seems ages ago. No known cure :scared:�
May 9, 2014
republic I didn't have a car and biked everywhere, even during the "polar vortex." Having a car is still optional - it takes just as long to drive and park as to bike to work.
I wanted to spread the word about Tesla and EV technology. Why not? I'm content and have nothing else to spend money on other than charity.�
May 9, 2014
Jeff Miller Up until 2004, I bought only cheap used cars. In 2004 I bought a Prius which lasted me until 2012. At that point, I bought an Audi which I liked driving, but having to fill the dam tank every third day at fifty dollars a pop drove me crazy - after having the thrifty Prius, I couldn't go back to driving a gas guzzler. So I traded the Audi in for a dealer demo Volt. I had been on the waiting list for a Tesla, but decided it was too extravagant. The Volt was functional and uninspiring. After driving it for a few months, I ended up placing another order for a Tesla. I liked what I had read about the company and its founder and wanted to support what they were doing. Also, from a carbon perspective, we need to electrify transportation and Tesla was doing far more to advance that goal than anyone else. Since I've had the car, I no longer understand my hesitation in buying it. It's fun and economical (upfront cost aside) to drive. The Tesla service center has been fantastic - it's easy to get things done. It's nice not having to ever stop and get gas. I can't see ever going back to an ICE.�
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