teslamotorclub: Gonna bail - anyone else? part 2

bonnie said: ?

I totally get what you're saying. When I purchased my Roadster, it was for performance. I didn't buy into the environmental argument. Because there were a lot better ways I thought I could spend that money to help the environment than buy a performance car. Right?

Someone on the forum pointed out to me the influence I'd had at the large number of events I'd attended, showing that performance electric sports car. Thousands of people had seen it. I know there have been a LOT of sales of electric cars because of it. (Even some people here on the forum.) I've certainly held countless conversations about what we each, individually, can do to help reduce our carbon footprint because I own that fun car.

So yes, it is a ridiculous amount of money. Each one of us has our own reasons for buying what we buy. I tell my children that I'm spending their inheritance and, they'e told me 'well, you've earned it'. (Love them!) But don't ever think that your purchase of one of these cars or a more inexpensive version doesn't have a wider impact than just driving it, because it does. People see it on the road. They ask you questions at the supermarket. It becomes 'normal'. And they think about how it would fit into their life.

Individual decision. But a global impact.
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I love this post.
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Cancun2ndhome said: ?

I am new here and think these cars are cool as hell. However, I can't really put my mind around spending so much money, so I was drawn to this post. I don't mean to get too personal, but is everyone buying these wealthy or is it the same old deal of being able to "afford the payment" even though their retirement is in question? I think the amount of families living paycheck to paycheck is around 75%. And I swear I am not trying to be holier than thou, I just am boggled by the purchase of something $100k that will be worth half that in 3 years? How is this a benefit to anyone's family?

And I saw some in here spoke of how they will tell their kids about how they helped save the planet. Really? They do realize that it produces tons more emissions to produce a new car than drive an older one??? If you really want to make a difference then get or keep a car that has already been produced. Funny how we rationalize our wants. I want one, and believe I can really afford it, but financially it is such a leap!
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It isn't easy to explain what drew me to Tesla, but I will say that I think some people (myself included) have an emotional response to a Tesla Model S and/or X that defies logic and turns otherwise sane and rational people into giddy and effusive emissaries of the brand and its products. I won't use the term "fan boys" (or "fan girls") due to a somewhat negative connotation, but it's not far off from that. I haven't lost all objectivity, but I do give the company more leeway (non-folding seats on the X, for example) in pursuit of the "greater good."

I started hearing about and researching Tesla in late 2012/early 2013, liked what I was seeing and bought some shares in the company in March, 2013. Over time, I bought more shares, test drove a P85+ (loved it!), heard about the X and reserved one in mid 2013, sold some shares and bought a few more. Since then, I've been an avid follower of the company and its products.

What appeals to me about Tesla is, well... everything. The car is 100% electric, which appeals to my eco-conscious side. Our current car is a 10-year-old Highlander Hybrid which was the first car we bought new, for similar environmental and practical reasons. A Tesla is quicker than any car has a right to be, fits 5-7 people plus gear comfortably and handles like a sports car. It is probably the most technologically advanced car ever created. The 17-inch touch screen controls virtually every element of the driving and passenger experience. It adjusts its attitude/height for ideal aerodynamics. It even gets regular over-the-air updates that keep making the car more and more awesome. And those falcon wing doors? Yowza!

Then there's Elon Musk. He can be a bit abrasive, probably gives most of his employees conniptions, is about as arrogant as they come *BUT* he's a visionary who wills impossible things into existence, and doesn't settle for "good enough." Everything he's doing, from solar power to electric cars to reusable rockets, to missions to Mars appeals to my SciFi-loving, environment-respecting, adventure-seeking, technology-exploiting, underdog-rooting, establishment-challenging nature. I dig what he's doing, and I support his and Tesla's missions. And like ohmman and others have said, I'm voting with my dollars.

A $100K+ car is a bit of a stretch, but it's not impacting my retirement nest egg or wiping out our cash cushion, or dooming my kids to less-than-ideal education choices. Sure, having an ultra-expensive electric-powered car is impractical on the one hand, but eminently practical on the other. And it's sustainable. Which I like. Our roof isn't large enough for a solar power system that can provide 100% of our power needs (thanks to NYC fire codes) but the system we do have up there offsets a lot of our electricity usage, and the rest of our power we buy from renewable sources so I feel pretty good about my soon-to-be-delivered wind, water and sun-powered car.

And if my friends think I won't shut up about Tesla now, just wait until they see me in a few months when I finally take delivery of my Model X! But then I'll take them for a ride... and maybe they'll finally understand?
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When I was looking for a car, I felt I was going to stretch for a car in the $40k-$50k. I wanted a Tesla, but it was just too expensive in principle. After looking for cars in that range, I couldn't find anything I liked that gave me the performance. I wanted a hybrid, just to feel like I was doing something for the environment. I installed solar with the thought of getting the Tesla, but after 3 orders and cancels, I couldn't do it. Finally, looked at all the options and basically said, if I stretched to a 60-70k car, then in the longrun a Tesla might be fine along with the benefits. So I finally went through with my order. Looking back, I love the car. It's still expensive, but I wouldn't want anything else. So I'm really hoping the III is spectacular and ends up in the $40k-$50k range for the next car, because I'm fairly certain I can't be like Bonnie and own the 3 best Tesla's around, even if I could financially, it would just be too much money to put into 2 cars....

Cancun2ndhome said: ?

I am new here and think these cars are cool as hell. However, I can't really put my mind around spending so much money, so I was drawn to this post. I don't mean to get too personal, but is everyone buying these wealthy or is it the same old deal of being able to "afford the payment" even though their retirement is in question? I think the amount of families living paycheck to paycheck is around 75%. And I swear I am not trying to be holier than thou, I just am boggled by the purchase of something $100k that will be worth half that in 3 years? How is this a benefit to anyone's family?

And I saw some in here spoke of how they will tell their kids about how they helped save the planet. Really? They do realize that it produces tons more emissions to produce a new car than drive an older one??? If you really want to make a difference then get or keep a car that has already been produced. Funny how we rationalize our wants. I want one, and believe I can really afford it, but financially it is such a leap!
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russman said: ?

When I was looking for a car, I felt I was going to stretch for a car in the $40k-$50k. I wanted a Tesla, but it was just too expensive in principle. After looking for cars in that range, I couldn't find anything I liked that gave me the performance. I wanted a hybrid, just to feel like I was doing something for the environment. I installed solar with the thought of getting the Tesla, but after 3 orders and cancels, I couldn't do it. Finally, looked at all the options and basically said, if I stretched to a 60-70k car, then in the longrun a Tesla might be fine along with the benefits. So I finally went through with my order. Looking back, I love the car. It's still expensive, but I wouldn't want anything else. So I'm really hoping the III is spectacular and ends up in the $40k-$50k range for the next car, because I'm fairly certain I can't be like Bonnie and own the 3 best Tesla's around, even if I could financially, it would just be too much money to put into 2 cars....
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Actually, right now Bonnie only has the Roadster. She never got a Model S (that I know of), she sold her Sig X Number 2 and is waiting for her new Founder's X.
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Cancun2ndhome said: ?

I am new here and think these cars are cool as hell. However, I can't really put my mind around spending so much money, so I was drawn to this post. I don't mean to get too personal, but is everyone buying these wealthy or is it the same old deal of being able to "afford the payment" even though their retirement is in question? I think the amount of families living paycheck to paycheck is around 75%. And I swear I am not trying to be holier than thou, I just am boggled by the purchase of something $100k that will be worth half that in 3 years? How is this a benefit to anyone's family?
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All new cars, in every price segment, depreciate radically in the first few years. Tesla's depreciate the same as similar luxury cars. This has been extensively discussed on TMC many times, and the data supports it.
It was only recently that Tesla started selling CPO cars and they are a great way to get one and save significant money, if that helps you.
I do not consider myself "wealthy" but it all depends on what one measures oneself against. I do feel fortunate. My 2013 new Model S cost double what I had ever paid for a car. It was worth it. Only you can decide if it's worth it to you.
And as others have pointed out, buying a new EV and selling your old car doesn't mean your old car is junked, someone else will get use out of it for many years and your new EV is far cleaner than your old car. Remember, all cars get junked eventually.
Even Teslas won't last forever, but my bet is they will last far, far longer than the average ICE and create far less pollution during that time. So that benefits everyone's families. Think about it...and don't buy a vehicle that burns dead plants and heats up the atmosphere we all depend on. That benefits no one!
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roblab said: ?

If your present insurer wants to gouge you, and you let them, it's your fault. Every insurance company tries to jack up rates if they think they can get away with it.

SHOP AROUND. There is nothing magical in a name. My insurer is one I never heard of, yet they pay of better than others I have had, and charge less. Often, even hinting you will go looking, your insurer will drop prices.

The biggest insurance cost is insuring lives. Tesla is the safest car in the world. My rates are just a little bit more than what they were when I drove a 2009 Prius.
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Pretty silly to assume someone wouldn't shop around for insurance. And no, the largest insurance cost isn't insuring lives as part of automobile insurance. The amount of lives/claims is very small compared to the amount of damage and total loss claims for vehicles. Guess what percentage of US car crashes are fatal? 0.0055 percent.

The Tesla is an expensive vehicle that is expensive to repair and is easily totaled. I wouldn't believe a $100K+ Tesla would be insured for "just a little bit more" than a $30K Prius unless proven. Makes absolutely zero financial sense for the insurance company. Unless your Prius rate is somehow ridiculous to begin with.

My $104K Tesla on Order will cost MORE to insure than my brand new Dodge Viper. A largely carbon fiber, high HP RWD sports car. That is the case with USAA, Geico and Progressive. And that is with a perfect driving record.
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I don't mean to get too personal, but is everyone buying these wealthy or is it the same old deal of being able to "afford the payment" even though their retirement is in question? I think the amount of families living paycheck to paycheck is around 75%. And I swear I am not trying to be holier than thou, I just am boggled by the purchase of something $100k that will be worth half that in 3 years? How is this a benefit to anyone's family?
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We live in a time of massive income inequality, so sure, too many people live paycheck to paycheck. The vast majority, unfortunately.

But by definition, there are 3.19 million Americans living in the top 1%, which are those with assets of around $9 million or annual household income over $400,000. Tesla has sold how many, 50,000 total cars in the US? The total addressable market is MUCH higher, even at that lofty financial pinnacle. Those in the top 5 percent are making $210,000 per year. Are they part of Tesla's potential market? I'd guess so, and that puts the potential market at nearly 17 million. Then, of course, there's the overseas markets..

Now not all wealth will be drawn to Teslas. They are big in tech-centric Silicon Valley and socially conscious Hollywood. Heck, the Twitter IPO minted 1,600 new millionaires. Facebook's another thousand. Lots of money flowing around SF, SJ, and East Bay more than happy to choose Teslas over Lambos or other traditional high-cost cars. I'm in that boat. I'd never consider a Bentley or Maserati or anything like that. Not even a Beemer or Benz. My current car is a cheap Mazda, and if Tesla wasn't around, I'd likely splurge and get a Subaru WRX, a $30,000 car. But I'm a technologist, a gadget freak, and an environmentalist, so talk about a win-win!

Compare that, say, to Texas energy wealth. I'm sure those guys have zero interest in a car that makes their product obsolete. God knows they don't care about trees or clean air! New York Wall Street wealth has a deep tradition of expensive German luxury brands. And they still wear suits. So tradition is quite important in that world.

All gross generalizations of course, and exceptions abound. But point is that while not all wealthy people are potential Tesla customers, there's still a hell of a lot of them who could be who still don't own Teslas or even know the company exists. We're all still on the bleeding edge, here.

In any case, I don't give a rat's ass about depreciation. I'm keeping my future X as long as it'll keep running. If I wanted an investment, I'd buy some stocks, not a car. The car is a thing that gets me and my family from Point A to Point B, except that in a few months, I'll be doing so without contributing a single pound of CO2 into the atmosphere (100% solar powered).

And if I give Tesla a little boost in its efforts to bring the Model 3 to the masses, well then, so much the better!
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MrBoylan said: ?

It isn't easy to explain what drew me to Tesla, but I will say that I think some people (myself included) have an emotional response to a Tesla Model S and/or X that defies logic and turns otherwise sane and rational people into giddy and effusive emissaries of the brand and its products. I won't use the term "fan boys" (or "fan girls") due to a somewhat negative connotation, but it's not far off from that. I haven't lost all objectivity, but I do give the company more leeway (non-folding seats on the X, for example) in pursuit of the "greater good."
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Pretty much word for word what I think too. Before I got obsessed with Tesla I would not have considered spending 50 let alone 100 grand on a vehicle. It's more than the sum of it's parts. "Non Tesla" people don't get it.

This purchase will certainly affect the pay cheque for awhile but it won't put me in the poorhouse!
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bonnie said: ?

I totally get what you're saying. When I purchased my Roadster, it was for performance. I didn't buy into the environmental argument. Because there were a lot better ways I thought I could spend that money to help the environment than buy a performance car. Right?

Someone on the forum pointed out to me the influence I'd had at the large number of events I'd attended, showing that performance electric sports car. Thousands of people had seen it. I know there have been a LOT of sales of electric cars because of it. (Even some people here on the forum.) I've certainly held countless conversations about what we each, individually, can do to help reduce our carbon footprint because I own that fun car.

So yes, it is a ridiculous amount of money. Each one of us has our own reasons for buying what we buy. I tell my children that I'm spending their inheritance and, they'e told me 'well, you've earned it'. (Love them!) But don't ever think that your purchase of one of these cars or a more inexpensive version doesn't have a wider impact than just driving it, because it does. People see it on the road. They ask you questions at the supermarket. It becomes 'normal'. And they think about how it would fit into their life.

Individual decision. But a global impact.
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Love the initial post and the response from Bonnie!
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Marcos said: ?

We live in a time of massive income inequality, so sure, too many people live paycheck to paycheck. The vast majority, unfortunately.

But by definition, there are 3.19 million Americans living in the top 1%, which are those with assets of around $9 million or annual household income over $400,000. Tesla has sold how many, 50,000 total cars in the US? The total addressable market is MUCH higher, even at that lofty financial pinnacle. Those in the top 5 percent are making $210,000 per year. Are they part of Tesla's potential market? I'd guess so, and that puts the potential market at nearly 17 million. Then, of course, there's the overseas markets..

Now not all wealth will be drawn to Teslas. They are big in tech-centric Silicon Valley and socially conscious Hollywood. Heck, the Twitter IPO minted 1,600 new millionaires. Facebook's another thousand. Lots of money flowing around SF, SJ, and East Bay more than happy to choose Teslas over Lambos or other traditional high-cost cars. I'm in that boat. I'd never consider a Bentley or Maserati or anything like that. Not even a Beemer or Benz. My current car is a cheap Mazda, and if Tesla wasn't around, I'd likely splurge and get a Subaru WRX, a $30,000 car. But I'm a technologist, a gadget freak, and an environmentalist, so talk about a win-win!

Compare that, say, to Texas energy wealth. I'm sure those guys have zero interest in a car that makes their product obsolete. God knows they don't care about trees or clean air! New York Wall Street wealth has a deep tradition of expensive German luxury brands. And they still wear suits. So tradition is quite important in that world.

All gross generalizations of course, and exceptions abound. But point is that while not all wealthy people are potential Tesla customers, there's still a hell of a lot of them who could be who still don't own Teslas or even know the company exists. We're all still on the bleeding edge, here.

In any case, I don't give a rat's ass about depreciation. I'm keeping my future X as long as it'll keep running. If I wanted an investment, I'd buy some stocks, not a car. The car is a thing that gets me and my family from Point A to Point B, except that in a few months, I'll be doing so without contributing a single pound of CO2 into the atmosphere (100% solar powered).

And if I give Tesla a little boost in its efforts to bring the Model 3 to the masses, well then, so much the better!
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That's exactly my point of view! This is a stretch for me (paying cash) but it's an opportunity to make a difference and I expect this to be nearly my last car (though I may upgrade the battery in some number of year cycle)

Peter+
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EboMike said: ?

Regarding money - it's just a decision everybody has to make individually. You have a certain income, you have a certain budget. Some people like to spend the majority of their paycheck on a fancy car because they enjoy driving. Some people have a lot of money to spend. There is a wide variety of reasons why people are getting one, just loving nice cars could be one.

As for the environmental benefit - well yes, there is a huge benefit. We had a Highlander for the past 10 years, and in that time, we've pumped 3963 gallons of gasoline into it (slightly more, there were 7 instances when we forgot to log pumping gas). The Model X will be powered almost entirely by our solar panels. We'll easily offset the cost of producing the car. Not to mention that there will be no emissions as we drive, so we do our part to keep the air in our residential area cleaner and keep the noise level down.
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How do people afford to buy a Tesla? It�s a question I often pondered. I have gone through so many financial models to justify buying a Tesla but could not come up with a single sound justification to spend 100K+ on a car � until I realized it�s not a financial decision (for me)�it�s a lifestyle decision. And lifestyle decisions are often in conflict with sound financial decisions. Once I realized this, I reserved a Model X the same day.

I am one of those people who were suckered into buying a timeshare. But even after 24 years of owning one, I still don�t regret getting suckered into it (except of course initially). We have so many beautiful memories of spending time with the kids in different parts of the country. And the kids now being adults are making their own memories. We parents don�t even get to use the timeshare anymore. And that is priceless to me. This is what changed my thinking from considering Tesla as a financial decision to a lifestyle decision.
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vjlvjl said: ?

How do people afford to buy a Tesla? It�s a question I often pondered. I have gone through so many financial models to justify buying a Tesla but could not come up with a single sound justification to spend 100K+ on a car � until I realized it�s not a financial decision (for me)�it�s a lifestyle decision. And lifestyle decisions are often in conflict with sound financial decisions. Once I realized this, I reserved a Model X the same day.

I am one of those people who were suckered into buying a timeshare. But even after 24 years of owning one, I still don�t regret getting suckered into it (except of course initially). We have so many beautiful memories of spending time with the kids in different parts of the country. And the kids now being adults are making their own memories. We parents don�t even get to use the timeshare anymore. And that is priceless to me. This is what changed my thinking from considering Tesla as a financial decision to a lifestyle decision.
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Friends of mine who shake their heads at my Tesla purchase believe it's a "lifestyle" decision, but I didn't look at it that way.

I recognize that there's no economic basis whereby the car saves me money, what with the major up-front cost and the costs of HWPC+installation, service, huge insurance fees, etc.

I justified the purchase because I believe in the mission of the company, and want to support that mission. I believe in hastening the adoption of more sustainable forms of transportation and energy use. I bought into the argument that the early phases of Tesla's mission require successfully selling high-end cars to help "pave the way" for a more affordable car, the Model 3, and subsequent models (which I hope include a Ford F150 competitor).

Now, the economic argument for me was justified by buying lots of TSLA stock in 2012-13. Some of it I used to pay for the car in 2013, but the majority I'm holding for at least 5 or more years.
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Cancun2ndhome said: ?

I am new here and think these cars are cool as hell. However, I can't really put my mind around spending so much money, so I was drawn to this post. I don't mean to get too personal, but is everyone buying these wealthy or is it the same old deal of being able to "afford the payment" even though their retirement is in question? I think the amount of families living paycheck to paycheck is around 75%. And I swear I am not trying to be holier than thou, I just am boggled by the purchase of something $100k that will be worth half that in 3 years? How is this a benefit to anyone's family?

And I saw some in here spoke of how they will tell their kids about how they helped save the planet. Really? They do realize that it produces tons more emissions to produce a new car than drive an older one??? If you really want to make a difference then get or keep a car that has already been produced. Funny how we rationalize our wants. I want one, and believe I can really afford it, but financially it is such a leap!
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Its really not as expensive as you think when you factor the cost of the gasoline that you would have been putting into your Gasoline engine (ICE). I tell a story of my old pickup truck I'm still driving. I paid $19,000 for it new. Since then I have put 225K miles on it. That equates to about 14,500 gallons of fuel. At an average price of $3.25 per gallon, thats over $45,000 in fuel!
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One thing frequently not mentioned in the threads justifying our financially questionable decisions is this: IT'S FUN TO DRIVE !!!! I have a 2013 S85 -- 28,000+ miles--yes-it's had problems-service has been remarkable-& ranger was expensive. I love driving the car. My wife's X has been configured. Doubt that I'll ever buy another ICE (selling my 2002 Tahoe with 160,000 miles-a great car). I think it's dangerous for people to test drive a Tesla--we have enough problems with drugs in this country. Peace rf

p.s. another demographic--old folks who probably are going to buy one more car in their life, want to have fun, buy American, and don't want to leave everything to the kids.
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rick said: ?

One thing frequently not mentioned in the threads justifying our financially questionable decisions is this: IT'S FUN TO DRIVE !!!! I have a 2013 S85 -- 28,000+ miles--yes-it's had problems-service has been remarkable-& ranger was expensive. I love driving the car. My wife's X has been configured. Doubt that I'll ever buy another ICE (selling my 2002 Tahoe with 160,000 miles-a great car). I think it's dangerous for people to test drive a Tesla--we have enough problems with drugs in this country. Peace rf

p.s. another demographic--old folks who probably are going to buy one more car in their life, want to have fun, buy American, and don't want to leave everything to the kids.
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I'm in that same demographic, rick. But the things that really swayed me to buy the most expensive car in my life were the safety for my grandkids and the (anticipated) ease of putting my granddaughter into her car seat. So after test driving a Model S, we signed up for the Sig X sight unseen.
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I went all in although I was really hoping for second row folding seats. If I am lucky they will provide them right before my production so I can switch. If not then the day after and no retrofit.:cursing:
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aesculus said: ?

I went all in although I was really hoping for second row folding seats. If I am lucky they will provide them right before my production so I can switch. If not then the day after and no retrofit.:cursing:
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I'm fairly certain that the Model X will *never* have second row folding seats. It would be way too big of a design change now.

Hell, the Model S never got rear cup holders despite loud protests.
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aesculus said: ?

I went all in although I was really hoping for second row folding seats. If I am lucky they will provide them right before my production so I can switch. If not then the day after and no retrofit.:cursing:
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EboMike said: ?

I'm fairly certain that the Model X will *never* have second row folding seats. It would be way too big of a design change now.

Hell, the Model S never got rear cup holders despite loud protests.
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my belief is that we do see a folding seat option with the X. I may be wrong but I am willing to delay configuration for about six months to see. I accept that my needs in a CUV/SUV are not the same as others but current configurations can not replace the U in my current ICE SUV.

congratulation aesculus! I will be interested to read your reports once you have yours!
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AlMc said: ?

My belief is that we do see a folding seat option with the X. I may be wrong but I am willing to delay configuration for about six months to see...
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Not a bad idea to wait awhile. If Model S had the same comfortable seat as the Model X and the larger windshield, it wouldn't be a question to enjoy Model S.

I do like sitting higher in traffic, but comparing the two will continue to help decide what to enjoy. Both designs have their advantages.

What would I change in Model X at this point:

- Interior overhead lighting: Five leds and two leds are grouped together with a single opaque cover. Reminds me of a 50's dome light with no direct light to read. Perhaps a clear cover would help. (This alone makes using X during the day and S at night an attractive idea! More daily range too!)

- Rear interior surfaces: All surfaces should allow scuffing without visible marking.

- Headlights: Feature the smooth light of Model S headlights, the Model X headlight reflector patterns on the road is distracting.
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I joined the bailed club.
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lolachampcar said: ?

I joined the bailed club.
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Curious as to the why if you don't mind sharing?

Jeff
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vjlvjl said: ?

How do people afford to buy a Tesla?
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I am a simple federal employee. I cant afford a Tesla.... on paper. Put those pennies in a jar for a while and anything becomes affordable though.
Better question... why do people buy a Tesla? Many here will talk about electric vehicles and zero emissions. tinm says " I believe in the mission of the company, and want to support that mission. I believe in hastening the adoption of more sustainable forms of transportation and energy use." Rick says " IT'S FUN TO DRIVE !!!!" Farmerdave has safety on his mind "the safety for my grandkids and the (anticipated) ease of putting my granddaughter into her car seat."

We simply wanted to enjoy a true luxury car while we still could. Each of the above are all pluses.
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jeff,

lolachampcar said: ?

It is a combination of a lot of things. It is part "why?" in that the X is so much bigger than the S but really does not offer that much more space/utility for us. We rarely need seven people seating and, when we do, it is not five plus two smaller people so we would likely end up taking two cars. Even folding down the two rear seats, our S' feel like they have more storage (with their rear seats up). I also fear the electrically actuated items on the car. Neither my wife nor I have sun roofs simply to avoid the electrically actuated nature and the potential for water/wind leaks. I've had to fix sun roofs in the past and even the best of them are a nightmare.

Lastly, its also a little bit of disillusionment with the whole idea. There was a time when I would look for an excuse to move my current Tesla into the secondary market and generate another new car sale. That time has passed which puts even more burden on the X to be a reason to make a change. We will likely replace my wife's current S with an S90D at some point. She got one as a loaner when her drive unit was being replaced and has yet to stop talking about it
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Cancun2ndhome said: ?

I am new here and think these cars are cool as hell. However, I can't really put my mind around spending so much money, so I was drawn to this post. I don't mean to get too personal, but is everyone buying these wealthy or is it the same old deal of being able to "afford the payment" even though their retirement is in question? I think the amount of families living paycheck to paycheck is around 75%. And I swear I am not trying to be holier than thou, I just am boggled by the purchase of something $100k that will be worth half that in 3 years? How is this a benefit to anyone's family?

And I saw some in here spoke of how they will tell their kids about how they helped save the planet. Really? They do realize that it produces tons more emissions to produce a new car than drive an older one??? If you really want to make a difference then get or keep a car that has already been produced. Funny how we rationalize our wants. I want one, and believe I can really afford it, but financially it is such a leap!
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No, can't agree with logic that its better for the planet to drive an oil-burner. If everybody adopted your logic, nobody would ever buy an electric right? Because there are billions of cars in existence and it would take generations to drive them all into the ground, all the while they're killing our planet. No, we need to buy electrics and junkyard the ICE vehicles. Your argument reminds me of someone who said solar panels weren't green because it took so much energy to build one. Bad logic.
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lolachampcar said: ?

jeff,
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My bad... Thanks for reposting.

Jeff
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no bad (it was a completely different thread) and no worries
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I joined the "bailed" club. Had been going back and forth, a real rollercoaster. Was very disappointed after the so called launch. Then got excited, frustrated... finally my wife decided to order it last week. And today we cancelled the order and switched it instead get a second Model S.
Basically the Model X is at the same time too big and too small. It's insanely wide on the outside, but with the thick FWDs not all that wide on the inside where it matters. Storage capacity is ridiculously small given its size. But what pushed us over the edge is that we still have no idea when we'd get it. And that the quality of the ones that have been delivered so far seems to be extremely hit and miss. I have personally seen 5 different Sig Model X and every single one had serious, serious fit and finish issues.
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rick said: ?

One thing frequently not mentioned in the threads justifying our financially questionable decisions is this: IT'S FUN TO DRIVE !!!! I have a 2013 S85 -- 28,000+ miles--yes-it's had problems-service has been remarkable-& ranger was expensive. I love driving the car. My wife's X has been configured. Doubt that I'll ever buy another ICE (selling my 2002 Tahoe with 160,000 miles-a great car). I think it's dangerous for people to test drive a Tesla--we have enough problems with drugs in this country. Peace rf

p.s. another demographic--old folks who probably are going to buy one more car in their life, want to have fun, buy American, and don't want to leave everything to the kids.
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Amen to that!
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dirkhh said: ?

I joined the "bailed" club. Had been going back and forth, a real rollercoaster. Was very disappointed after the so called launch. Then got excited, frustrated... finally my wife decided to order it last week. And today we cancelled the order and switched it instead get a second Model S.
Basically the Model X is at the same time too big and too small. It's insanely wide on the outside, but with the thick FWDs not all that wide on the inside where it matters. Storage capacity is ridiculously small given its size. But what pushed us over the edge is that we still have no idea when we'd get it. And that the quality of the ones that have been delivered so far seems to be extremely hit and miss. I have personally seen 5 different Sig Model X and every single one had serious, serious fit and finish issues.
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Dirk...'Say it ain't so'................But, I totally get your reasoning.

Additional: Now...If Ohmman cancels too it is definitely time to bail on TSLA as well.:wink:
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dirkhh said: ?

I joined the "bailed" club. Had been going back and forth, a real rollercoaster.
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These are all valid concerns, especially regarding the width and the storage space - I've been a bit worried about those myself, we already have trouble fitting our two cars in the garage. Would be interesting to hear some thoughts from some of the X owners here, just to get some different points of view.
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dirkhh said: ?

I joined the "bailed" club. Had been going back and forth, a real rollercoaster. Was very disappointed after the so called launch. Then got excited, frustrated... finally my wife decided to order it last week. And today we cancelled the order and switched it instead get a second Model S.
Basically the Model X is at the same time too big and too small. It's insanely wide on the outside, but with the thick FWDs not all that wide on the inside where it matters. Storage capacity is ridiculously small given its size. But what pushed us over the edge is that we still have no idea when we'd get it. And that the quality of the ones that have been delivered so far seems to be extremely hit and miss. I have personally seen 5 different Sig Model X and every single one had serious, serious fit and finish issues.
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Sorry to see you go. Perhaps we closed our eyes to this possibility, but with every passing day I wait for my delivery, these issues are weighing more and more on me! Quality ought not be hit or miss ..or attributed to luck. I hope Tesla can quickly address the fit and finish (and functional) issues before they get out of hand! Longtime Sig reservation holders, mostly devout Tesla supports and purist brand ambassadors, deserve better!
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I am not sure if I ordered the coolest car ever or the next Edsel or Delorean. Time will tell.
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aesculus said: ?

I am not sure if I ordered the coolest car ever or the next Edsel or Delorean. Time will tell.
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Tesla has been very very good in the past with trying to fix the issues with the cars. The problem is that fit/finish is hard to fix. So my Model S P85D happens to have a driver door that sticks out about 5mm. They tried to adjust it and then declared it "within spec". That doesn't make it an Edsel or Delorean - it's just something we worried about, given our experience (but then, we might get unlucky again and have the same problem with our third Model S).
I want to be clear: I don't think this is going to be a bad car. After all, we clicked "order" a week ago and just reversed that decision. But the more we thought about it the less it appeared this was the right choice for us right now. And who knows, maybe in a couple of years we'll trade in one of our Model S for a 2018 Model X.
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I purposefully put my reservation in very late (Jan 2015) so they would have a number of cars under their belt by the time they got to mine. I never expected them to take so long to get into production nor have so many people defer until they actually sat in one (a good idea in my opinion). Since I decided to gamble a bit I ordered a few weeks ago and jumped way out ahead of where I was supposed to be.

My guess (WAG) now is that I will probably be somewhere in the 4,000 to 5,000 range when I originally thought it would be more like 15,000. I sure hope that's enough time for the bugs to be worked out and major refinements to take place.

My Edsel comment was more about features than build quality. The car is crazy cool but I can see tons of issues not only in things breaking, but in how well the average person would associate with the car. Hopefully it's more like the MB 300 SL Gullwing instead of a Delorean.:smile:
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well the model s is up to 100k vin and its still having some of the issues the first models had (panel, sunroof, DU and little window leaks) so its doubtful that 5k wont have issues.
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Anyone can click my profile and read the posts in various places about my early VIN quality. Even though some complained bitterly about my first reveal of the initial issues, I was clear that the reason was to help Tesla Motors and early buyers.

1. Tesla Motors for quality improvement.
2. Buyers to see how their more recent vehicles are better than the early VINs.

I will know the differences when I see the Model X in the Tesla Store. Those production models will be the quality standard to measure from. One of the reasons I have taken photos of all my Model X Signature issues is to clearly compare the differences after Tesla corrects or does not correct, then compare with later production. This will help if someone isn't satisfied with the newer production and I can point out how much better it is.

Since both of my Model X and S Signatures can be compared as I view them together, I have found that the Model X Signature door, hood, and trunk gaps are narrower than on Model S Signature. That IMHO, may be why some early buyers of Model X Signature reported better build quality than Model S Signature. The Model X Signature seats are much more comfortable than Model S Signature, but my older seats still look new, while Model X seats appear to have some age marks with the creases in the leather.

Right now Model X sits in my garage while I continue to happily drive Model S Signature with version 7.1. I don't want to answer questions in public with a car that has an inoperative falcon wind door and broken seat mover. Unlike the past, a call to Tesla now only logs the issue. No quick over the internet software fix or reset that is downloaded as in the early days of Model S (at least for this car.) They did grab the logs from the vehicle for documentation since the Model X will go in for the first round of repairs in a few days.

Where do I stand on the Gonna bail issue? That answer will be on how much better I enjoy Model X Signature over time. I have started a list of what I like about Model S and X for comparison. There is a great deal to like about Model S. I originally decided to hold onto Model S Signature during the HOV sticker wait time for Model X. I have since decided that if I keep both, Model S P85 is perfect for around town and night drives, while Model X P90DL is for the highway adventures.

For those who are on the "what shall we do?" side of decision making and worry a lot, IMHO, I would suggest delay without loss if you can.

Signature order? IMHO, if economically possible, don't trade-in if you would later wish you hadn't. Don't lose 40K. Take delivery, get all the repairs needed, and then decide what vehicle to keep and what to sell.

Production order? IMHO, If possible, wait for Model X to appear for test drives at your Tesla Store. If you can't wait, don't worry, IMHO, there will be eager buyers for Model X if you need to sell later this year, especially if you discount your usage.

Switch to Model S? IMHO, an excellent decision if you don't need the higher profile, additional seating or towing package. The latest Model S vehicle seats are more comfortable than my original Model S seats. I can list more wonderful reasons to purchase Model S another time.

Imagine how I felt after taking delivery and later in the day parked in the Tesla parking lot for a few minutes. Some wonderful customers visiting the Tesla Store walked over for a look at my vehicle. I demonstrated the doors and seats as best I could, and the early VIN quality was showing. Their comment was, "They told us to wait a year, the quality would be better!" Now keep in mind, there is a year wait anyway, so it is understandable that someone in the store might say that to keep a future customer happier about waiting. But I knew it was true, it is better to wait if you don't need the Model X right away. In my case, I had already waited almost 47 months!
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My wife and I faced two issues and they were radically different.

The first was technology risk. I understand why Tesla is going down the full automatic door option as they need to make it down this learning curve for (what appear to be) future plans. I fear involvement in that curve for the same reason we have never ordered sun roofs in our cars. It is simply one more piece that can break. I lump the gadget risk in with the initial quality risk and have a high degree of confidence that Tesla will get it sorted. That level was high enough to order the X in support of the company and to play with the newest toy even though both of us are very happy with our S'.

The second issue was the one that drove the demise of our order. There is a marginal increase in utility with the X over the S in some areas and a marked reduction in others. Drop the rear seats in the S and you literally have a huge space to pile junk. I dropped the seats in the X and it really was no better and may have been less than the S. I then sat in the rear seats and felt hemmed in by the sides of the X which were quite thick. Perhaps the chargers had to be moved to the side walls to increase vertical space, I simply do not know but those side walls are intrusive.

One of the above can and will be addressed by the Tesla team over time. The other is a function of the design and will come down to a matter of taste.
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Mark Z said: ?

Imagine how I felt after taking delivery and later in the day parked in the Tesla parking lot for a few minutes. Some wonderful customers visiting the Tesla Store walked over for a look at my vehicle. I demonstrated the doors and seats as best I could, and the early VIN quality was showing. Their comment was, "They told us to wait a year, the quality would be better!"
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And this is why I try to be very careful when discussing potential early quality issues on this forum. There are many contributing members who have already taken delivery and are dealing with their SCs. It doesn't help to have a chorus of people talking about waiting or delaying deliveries. You can make that personal decision based on the information, but announcing it outright seems a little unfair to people like Mark Z. Imagine a friend purchased a home in a subdivision you were considering, and you heard of some issues in those homes. Indeed, your friend was dealing with the builder on them. I doubt you'd want to say "yep, that's why I'm waiting."

lolachampcar said: ?

The first was technology risk. I understand why Tesla is going down the full automatic door option as they need to make it down this learning curve for (what appear to be) future plans. I fear involvement in that curve for the same reason we have never ordered sun roofs in our cars. It is simply one more piece that can break.
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There is certainly some risk. How much remains to be seen. I recall the days when power windows and power locks were discussed the same way, but they've proven to be extremely reliable. I wouldn't consider a car that was missing either of those items today. I've also had a power sunroof in all of my cars for the last 18 years and haven't had an issue. Doors, of course, are a much larger undertaking. We'll see.

lolachampcar said: ?

The second issue was the one that drove the demise of our order. There is a marginal increase in utility with the X over the S in some areas and a marked reduction in others.
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I believe this is one of the most powerful arguments in this thread, and it was phrased best by AlMc a while back. Paraphrasing: "The Model S was a no-compromise sedan, but the Model X requires some compromise." There is nothing to "get over" with the MS - for a sedan especially, the utility is amazing. With the MX, some people (but not all!) need to adopt some compromise.
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dirkhh said: ?

I joined the "bailed" club. Had been going back and forth, a real rollercoaster. Was very disappointed after the so called launch. Then got excited, frustrated... finally my wife decided to order it last week. And today we cancelled the order and switched it instead get a second Model S.
Basically the Model X is at the same time too big and too small. It's insanely wide on the outside, but with the thick FWDs not all that wide on the inside where it matters. Storage capacity is ridiculously small given its size. But what pushed us over the edge is that we still have no idea when we'd get it. ....
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The emboldened points factored into my decision to get a Model S. I didn't know about the storage capacity at the time but since seeing the Model X, I concur.

That stated, the Model X has lots of nice things that I wish the Model S had. If I regularly drove with more than 3 people at a time, I would have been glad that I waited.
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I'm purchasing the Model X for many reasons, maybe different than some. I want to be all electric and since I have a Classic Model S I really wanted the dual motor which was not available in 2013. I want to be able to go to the snow and haul my big dog, do not need tons of space inside do not care that I cannot put stuff on the roof. I feel that what ever problems I have with this car Tesla will fix them. Probably will not get my X til end of the year so most issues should be addressed. I have been very happy with my Model S and have had very few issues in the last 2-1/2 years. The X will be for my wife to replace her ML430 which I cannot wait to get rid of. So there is always a trade off when purchasing anything, the fact that Tesla even exists is amazing. I hope that everyone who has the early cars and has issues will get everything taken care of, I'm sure it is frustrating to wait so long and then not be able to drive your car.
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ohmman said: ?

And this is why I try to be very careful when discussing potential early quality issues on this forum. There are many contributing members who have already taken delivery and are dealing with their SCs. It doesn't help to have a chorus of people talking about waiting or delaying deliveries. You can make that personal decision based on the information, but announcing it outright seems a little unfair to people like Mark Z. Imagine a friend purchased a home in a subdivision you were considering, and you heard of some issues in those homes. Indeed, your friend was dealing with the builder on them. I doubt you'd want to say "yep, that's why I'm waiting."
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I think it's a balance. There are many things that I wouldn't post publicly (and some of them I have shared with you in private, ohmman). I don't want people who came to a different conclusion than I did to feel bad about their decision. And I certainly don't want to make people like Mark Z or Bonnie feel bad, who so generously share with us.

But on the flip side, I think TMC should roughly represent what people think and do - if all we post here is "pro-Tesla", then TMC no longer helps people make informed decisions (and basically has lost its value to me).

So no, you won't see me post "ha, suckers, enjoy the looong wait for your stupid **** cars!" - because that's not right, and it's not how I feel. I guess I have documented enough of the journey to this decision to show how conflicted I am. I loved the car when I first sat in it (thanks, Kittylitter). I think the FWD are an engineering marvel and would have loved to have them and to show them off. I think this car will make a lot of people happy. But for us, right now, given the other factors I've mentioned before, switching to a Model S was the right decision. And I would claim that it's also important to document that in order to give a somewhat realistic picture here on TMC.
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ohmman said: ?

And this is why I try to be very careful when discussing potential early quality issues on this forum. There are many contributing members who have already taken delivery and are dealing with their SCs. It doesn't help to have a chorus of people talking about waiting or delaying deliveries. You can make that personal decision based on the information, but announcing it outright seems a little unfair to people like Mark Z. Imagine a friend purchased a home in a subdivision you were considering, and you heard of some issues in those homes. Indeed, your friend was dealing with the builder on them. I doubt you'd want to say "yep, that's why I'm waiting."
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To me that is a pretty silly stance. Putting blinders on never helps a situation. Knowledge is power. I'd expect people to be adults and know the cold, hard facts of a situation.
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Zybane said: ?

To me that is a pretty silly stance. Putting blinders on never helps a situation. Knowledge is power. I'd expect people to be adults and know the cold, hard facts of a situation.
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I think you're misconstruing what I said. I am not suggesting that people with issues don't post them. That's the knowledge/"cold, hard facts" part of the equation. I'm just suggesting a bit of consideration. If someone has seen/been delivered a MX and they have commentary on facts, by all means they should share it.
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I just want everyone to make the best decision based on their needs, finances and required reliability. We know that the Tesla EV performance is best, so that must be weighed with the decision.

If you have the time to deal with any reliability issues and you love the Model X design then go for it.

I would have one major question for those waiting for a production Model X. Are they including the dark tinted windows in the back? If I was walking into a Tesla store and taking test drives in Model X, I would want to sit inside examples with and without the tint. Another choice is the dark or light headliner. Seeing the vehicles will help those who are on the fence on what to purchase. I would say that seeing the vehicles in person is a major reason to wait if there is uncertainty in the decision making process.

It seems odd, but the lack of window tint may be the major reason I enjoy driving Model S so much. Having the light headliner in S and the dark headliner in X could be another. But with less than 300 miles on the odometer, I need more time to enjoy Model X.

UPDATE: Today I did enjoy more time in Model X and this is a good place to mention it. On a bright day, the darker tint isn't so dark. I saw more out of the rear view mirror than some of the photos show. I do enjoy the higher profile and visibility is good on the sides and of course, the front windshield. Comfort is great and I am still learning new things each day.

I stopped by the local Tesla Store to get a key fob protector. No luck on that front, but several Tesla Product Specialists were on hand to serve the customers. Enough staff were on hand, that they were able to take turns and examine my Model X. For some, it was the first time they saw the X in person. They were pleased to see the lighted mirror in the visor because several Model S sales were lost due to that missing feature. They enjoyed climbing in and out of the back seat and how much easier it is than Model S. (I have found ways to enter the back with no scuffing, just grip onto the 2nd row seat headrest as a handhold for stability.) We enjoyed talking about the quality improvements and how Tesla would make things right.

The Tesla Product Specialists were trained in something I didn't know about and can't find in the manual. The FWD can be opened or closed manually if necessary. The release is well hidden but it does work. I tried it on my broken door at home. Sure enough, you can push the door further up than normal travel. Takes a bit of effort, and there is no warning if you get it near an object. Manual closing was interesting. I gently closed the door, but it seemed ajar. I pushed the top down, and the bottom pulled in. Seems the bottom latch remains operational, even though the movement circuits in my broken door were not operational. It is comforting to know that with some special effort, the doors could be opened if there was no other way out. While no tools are required, I would not recommend trying it, and that is why I won't mention the hidden release location here (don't look for it, it's even hidden after you remove a special panel from the inside). Call Tesla Motors if you need to know. There are other parts in the area that could be damaged, especially when the panel is removed or replaced, and I don't want to be responsible for that.

One more thing was checked out at home, and that is the 2nd air mover for the rear seats. A second fan system is controllable at the touchscreen and is very powerful with vents for each rear seat passenger. While the 2nd row center seat gets the air from the front console, the other 4 locations can get blasted. This is great news for summer heat and multiple passengers. Everyone should be happy. The air intake is at the rear hatch on the left. Have fun finding that and don't let kids toss objects into the hole!

Another treat was finding the towing eye at the back of the Mobile Connector bag. The Owner's Manual says in is in the front trunk, but now you know where to look. Check the Model X Owner's Manual for all the details on using the towing eye if you are stuck.
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ohmman said: ?

I believe this is one of the most powerful arguments in this thread, and it was phrased best by AlMc a while back. Paraphrasing: "The Model S was a no-compromise sedan, but the Model X requires some compromise." There is nothing to "get over" with the MS - for a sedan especially, the utility is amazing. With the MX, some people (but not all!) need to adopt some compromise.
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From a utility standpoint the MS does not compromise, but the MX does. That is frustrating because it should be the other way around.

However from an ingress/egress and comfort position, the MX is way above the MS. I really wanted the MX to be the best of both worlds but it isn't. The MS was just not going to work for me so I had to settle for the MX with compromises.

I suspect in a few years the MX or maybe the M3Y? might be the better car. In the mean time I will try to get the MX to work out. Its not like I am going to really suffer. :smile:
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My order confirms tomorrow. I have been debating but think i'll stay in. The car is flashy for my inner city Chicago neighborhood. The falcon wing doors are weird, overly complex and likely a maintenance nightmare. Emotional approach and my love of technology is beating out the rational thoughts. Now the waiting begins..
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As the OP, for the record (not that anyone really cares as some have pointed out), I did get my deposit back and will be picking up a different brand vehicle when my current lease expires in March. I'll definitely consider a Tesla in the future (my wife is due for a new car soon). Right now with gas prices being what they are (transient, I know) and the economy looking to flounder all year until at least election time, I don't feel like sinking $100K+ is the right thing to be doing for us. If the market continues to fall, I'd rather invest that $100k and rake when it bounces back. No disrespect to anyone buying, I still want one and think they are fantastic vehicles - their value is certainly worth more to some than others and it's nice to see so many demonstratively proud of theirs.
In the meantime, I'll continue to lurk and learn.
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It was a hard decision for us, but we decided to go ahead with our Model X purchase. I have reservations about some of the design choices (falcon doors, non-foldable 2nd row seats, immobile middle seat headrest, panoramic windshield) and concerns about reliability. I am also unsure about the long-term viability of Tesla Motors as a company. Despite these issues, we are going ahead because the Model X is the only option for an electric AWD SUV that seats 6/7 people for the foreseeable future. I told my wife that this will either be our best car decision we've made or our biggest mistake, heh.

I am happy that we ordered the 6 seater--the inability to carry skis in the vehicle and the poor rear-view mirror visibility in the 7 seater would have been big disappointments.
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Freshies said: ?

It was a hard decision for us, but we decided to go ahead with our Model X purchase. I have reservations about some of the design choices (falcon doors, non-foldable 2nd row seats, immobile middle seat headrest, panoramic windshield) and concerns about reliability. I am also unsure about the long-term viability of Tesla Motors as a company. Despite these issues, we are going ahead because the Model X is the only option for an electric AWD SUV that seats 6/7 people for the foreseeable future. I told my wife that this will either be our best car decision we've made or our biggest mistake, heh.

I am happy that we ordered the 6 seater--the inability to carry skis in the vehicle and the poor rear-view mirror visibility in the 7 seater would have been big disappointments.
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Total echo with all your points at my household too. I will save you a place in the doghouse if it turns out we were wrong.:smile:
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aesculus said: ?

Total echo with all your points at my household too. I will save you a place in the doghouse if it turns out we were wrong.[emoji2]
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Exactly the same story in my home. [emoji1]
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Mark Z said: ?

The Tesla Product Specialists were trained in something I didn't know about and can't find in the manual. The FWD can be opened or closed manually if necessary. The release is well hidden but it does work. I tried it on my broken door at home. Sure enough, you can push the door further up than normal travel. Takes a bit of effort, and there is no warning if you get it near an object. Manual closing was interesting. I gently closed the door, but it seemed ajar. I pushed the top down, and the bottom pulled in. Seems the bottom latch remains operational, even though the movement circuits in my broken door were not operational. It is comforting to know that with some special effort, the doors could be opened if there was no other way out. While no tools are required, I would not recommend trying it, and that is why I won't mention the hidden release location here (don't look for it, it's even hidden after you remove a special panel from the inside). Call Tesla Motors if you need to know. There are other parts in the area that could be damaged, especially when the panel is removed or replaced, and I don't want to be responsible for that.
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I believe this is publicly available under the first responders page. The release is behind the speaker according to that document.

I disagree wholeheartedly that this needs to be a secret. I have a family and own a rear-facing model S. It was priority number one for me to learn everything about manual release for doors not just in the back seat, but the manual release for the trunk. We teach EVERYONE in our family and have them PRACTICE the manual release. I want us to be prepared and knowledgeable in the event of an emergency and loss of power. In fact the car is designed to disconnect high voltage in the event of an accident, it is very feasible that the 12V will fail in such an event as well.

My wife ordered, confirmed, and received her VIN � but we did not confirm until we verified there were manual releases in the trunk AND FWDs. Why the trunk in the Model X? Well she chose the 7 seat option and after sitting in the back row at the Model X Reveal event, it was made clear to both of us that in the event of a power failure (12 V), we wouldn't "fit" to reach the falcon wing doors with the 2nd row seats in the way. More so with the new headrests that don't move and the seats don't flip down without electricity you would be unable to climb OVER the 2nd row seats. Your only exit option would be the rear trunk. At first we got scared as the public first responders document did NOT have a manual release listed for the trunk on Model X (and still does not). However, someone shared their Model X Owners Manual PDF on dropbox and indeed we learned the location of the manual release and felt confident enough to confirm the order.

The very first thing we'll do when we get the Model X home, is have everyone practice the manual releases of each exit in the vehicle and their strategy for exiting in the event an emergency takes place. So I disagree with you and encourage everyone to put a plan in the back of their mind, consider practicing it, so that you are prepared � hope you never need it.
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mymacbook said: ?

I believe this is publicly available under the first responders page. The release is behind the speaker according to that document...I disagree wholeheartedly that this needs to be a secret...We teach EVERYONE in our family and have them PRACTICE the manual release...
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I was attempting to save everyone's speakers from fingers and hands poking holes in the speaker cones.

Enjoy finding the small wire to pull for the release and placing the rounded wire end back into a position that doesn't rattle.
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Another X => S conversion

dirkhh said: ?

I joined the "bailed" club. Had been going back and forth, a real rollercoaster. Was very disappointed after the so called launch. Then got excited, frustrated... finally my wife decided to order it last week. And today we cancelled the order and switched it instead get a second Model S.
Basically the Model X is at the same time too big and too small. It's insanely wide on the outside, but with the thick FWDs not all that wide on the inside where it matters. Storage capacity is ridiculously small given its size. But what pushed us over the edge is that we still have no idea when we'd get it. And that the quality of the ones that have been delivered so far seems to be extremely hit and miss. I have personally seen 5 different Sig Model X and every single one had serious, serious fit and finish issues.
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Tl;dr = Add me to the list of people who converted a long-standing Model X reservation to a Model S order, for reasons similar to @dirkhh.

A shade under three years ago, my wife and I were admiring a Model S in the local Tesla store. We lamented that our family of six would be too large for the car, given that our youngest would likely be outgrowing the rear-facing seats in short order. The salesperson responded, "You know, Tesla's next model will have room for seven adults, and it's scheduled to be out at the end of next year [2014]." Ten minutes later we had a deposit down on a Model X; U.S. Production sequence number in the 2800 range.

For most of the past three years, we waited patiently to see a Model X, even after losing the WA state sales tax exemption last June. All along we heard everybody who had a Model S describe it as the best car they'd ever owned. This impression was reinforced by a Model S test drive last fall. And then at the end of November, we got the Model X "Invitation to Configure" email. But we decided to wait to order until we could see the car in person and ideally take a test drive. We knew we weren't getting the P90D, so we were going to be waiting until "mid 2016" for the car regardless.

Finally, a few weeks ago, we got to see a Model X in person, courtesy of a public showing by one of the first Sig owners in our area. And it looks like a fabulous car. Tesla has put a lot of what they learned from Model S into Model X, and it shows. We were ready to place our order, but we had some concerns that were continuing to hold us back from committing. We decided, and then we wavered. We figured we'd probably wait another month or two to test-drive the X and do the "garage fit" test at home as a final step before ordering.

And then after further consideration, we decided to get the Model S instead. Why?

When we originally reserved a Model X back in 2013, we viewed it as the eventual replacement for our aging minivan. But echoing @dirkhh's comments above, the Model X is not a minivan replacement. It's the size of a minivan (but wider) on the outside and the size of a mid-sized SUV on the inside, comparable to the Acura MDX that we used to own. The third row is nice but nowhere near as big as in a minivan. And there's no exterior storage solution for the Model X that compares to our Thule roof box in cost and ease of use.

In a similar vein to #1, the oft-stated concerns about the lack of folding or removable middle-row seats.

Our oldest is heading off to college in the fall, so the number of times we need room for more than five is shrinking fast. This had been a key factor in our choosing Model X over Model S.

Seeing a Model X in person hit home that it's still a "v1" effort, even if it borrows heavily from the Model S, esp. in the powertrain and chassis. Some of it is fit-and-finish, and some is feature content. I look back at all of the changes that have been introduced to Model S during the past three years that are not backward-compatible, and I expect that the same will happen with the Model X. Personally I'm just not cut out to spend this much money on a v1.

As soon as we reached this decision, we knew it was the right one for us. And last week, we went into the Tesla Store and replaced our Model X reservation with a Model S order.

As part of this we're keeping our minivan as a backup vehicle for another year. If during this time we love our Model S but decide that we still need the 6-7 passenger capacity, we can revisit this decision then. Getting a Model X will only get easier if we can wait.

All of this said, we're thrilled to be getting the Model S and congratulate all of you who are sticking it out with the Model X. I know I will feel a twinge of jealousy the first time I pull up behind one in a parking lot and see the falcon-wing doors opening.
�

Ugh, as the world's biggest Tesla fan, I didn't expect to cancel my Model X order but it looks like that's where I am now. Going in and out of our driveway is tricky even with our tiny little Highlander. We live in attached house in NYC and getting in and out requires navigating around my neighbor's car, backing up next to her car then driving straight up a narrow common driveway with concrete walls on both sides. I confirmed our X order in December but the width has been a nagging concern. So my DS was nice enough to get me a Model S for an overnight test drive from the Mt. Kisco store. Getting the car in and out, even with the backup camera was way too stress-inducing, particularly for my wife, who didn't even want to attempt it. We could fit (barely) with the S, but with the extra 4 to 5 inches of the X, it just wouldn't have been doable. The proximity sensors on the S were almost useless in this situation as they don't have the necessary precision. They kept telling me to STOP in no uncertain terms even though there were still a few inches of clearance. And yeah, the power retracting mirrors do help, but since the back haunches of the S are wider than the front, I had to put the mirrors back out to make sure the back fenders were clearing the wall.

So driving a Tesla was fun while it lasted: taking my hands off the wheel and feet off the pedals on the Grand Central Parkway while Autopilot chauffeured us around, leaving gas-powered cars in the dust at a traffic light, just because I could, geeking out over the massive 17-inch touch-screen control panel and "filling up" just by plugging in. But it looks like I will have to defer those Tesla dreams until they make something smaller (Model 3 or Model Y), or we move. Hey, anyone want to buy a nice 3-BR house in Astoria?

Anyway, I envy you all with the space and am looking forward to owning a skinnier Tesla one day. Peace out!

�

MrBoylan said: ?

Ugh, as the world's biggest Tesla fan, I didn't expect to cancel my Model X order but it looks like that's where I am now. Going in and out of our driveway is tricky even with our tiny little Highlander. We live in attached house in NYC and getting in and out requires navigating around my neighbor's car, backing up next to her car then driving straight up a narrow common driveway with concrete walls on both sides. I confirmed our X order in December but the width has been a nagging concern. So my DS was nice enough to get me a Model S for an overnight test drive from the Mt. Kisco store. Getting the car in and out, even with the backup camera was way too stress-inducing, particularly for my wife, who didn't even want to attempt it. We could fit (barely) with the S, but with the extra 4 to 5 inches of the X, it just wouldn't have been doable. The proximity sensors on the S were almost useless in this situation as they don't have the necessary precision. They kept telling me to STOP in no uncertain terms even though there were still a few inches of clearance. And yeah, the power retracting mirrors do help, but since the back haunches of the S are wider than the front, I had to put the mirrors back out to make sure the back fenders were clearing the wall.

So driving a Tesla was fun while it lasted: taking my hands off the wheel and feet off the pedals on the Grand Central Parkway while Autopilot chauffeured us around, leaving gas-powered cars in the dust at a traffic light, just because I could, geeking out over the massive 17-inch touch-screen control panel and "filling up" just by plugging in. But it looks like I will have to defer those Tesla dreams until they make something smaller (Model 3 or Model Y), or we move. Hey, anyone want to buy a nice 3-BR house in Astoria?

Anyway, I envy you all with the space and am looking forward to owning a skinnier Tesla one day. Peace out!

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Sorry to hear that. I can see a model3 in your future though! :wink:
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AlMc said: ?

Sorry to hear that. I can see a model3 in your future though! :wink:
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That's a distinct possibility. For now, we really like having seating for 7 though. And it's really unlikely that will be in the cards for the Model 3 or the Model Y. And owning two cars just doesn't make sense in the city (at least not for us).

We may not live in this house forever though - could trade it for two in the suburbs. But, other than the narrow driveway, we kinda like living in the city.
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MrBoylan said: ?

That's a distinct possibility. For now, we really like having seating for 7 though. And it's really unlikely that will be in the cards for the Model 3 or the Model Y. And owning two cars just doesn't make sense in the city (at least not for us).

We may not live in this house forever though - could trade it for two in the suburbs. But, other than the narrow driveway, we kinda like living in the city.
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear that it will not work out. Though a far cry from a Model X, you might consider the up and coming PHEV Pacifica which would carry 7 and drive locally in all electric.
�

Wow. So so sorry. All I can think about after seeing your pictures was:

Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall
Click to expand...

�

aesculus said: ?

Wow. So so sorry. All I can think about after seeing your pictures was:
Click to expand...

Brilliant. I can empathize with the poster as I am stuck with a 1923 garage that was built for a Model T not a Model S or X, but hopefully a 3.
�

Am hoping not to bail, the wife is concerned the X will be too large. We shall see what it's like if we can book into the local test drive event next month. Fingers crossed!
�

MrBoylan said: ?

Ugh, as the world's biggest Tesla fan, I didn't expect to cancel my Model X order but it looks like that's where I am now. Going in and out of our driveway is tricky even with our tiny little Highlander. We live in attached house in NYC and getting in and out requires navigating around my neighbor's car, backing up next to her car then driving straight up a narrow common driveway with concrete walls on both sides. I confirmed our X order in December but the width has been a nagging concern. So my DS was nice enough to get me a Model S for an overnight test drive from the Mt. Kisco store. Getting the car in and out, even with the backup camera was way too stress-inducing, particularly for my wife, who didn't even want to attempt it. We could fit (barely) with the S, but with the extra 4 to 5 inches of the X, it just wouldn't have been doable. The proximity sensors on the S were almost useless in this situation as they don't have the necessary precision. They kept telling me to STOP in no uncertain terms even though there were still a few inches of clearance. And yeah, the power retracting mirrors do help, but since the back haunches of the S are wider than the front, I had to put the mirrors back out to make sure the back fenders were clearing the wall.

So driving a Tesla was fun while it lasted: taking my hands off the wheel and feet off the pedals on the Grand Central Parkway while Autopilot chauffeured us around, leaving gas-powered cars in the dust at a traffic light, just because I could, geeking out over the massive 17-inch touch-screen control panel and "filling up" just by plugging in. But it looks like I will have to defer those Tesla dreams until they make something smaller (Model 3 or Model Y), or we move. Hey, anyone want to buy a nice 3-BR house in Astoria?

Anyway, I envy you all with the space and am looking forward to owning a skinnier Tesla one day. Peace out!
Click to expand...

Would using summon make parking in the space any easier?
�

MrBoylan specifically said that the sensors were useless and telling him STOP. Guess what component is used by the summon feature?
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Yuri_G said: ?

Would using summon make parking in the space any easier?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't think the sensors are fine enough to navigate these tight spaces, even with Summon. On the S, the display kept saying STOP with a loud beep when I still had some clearance. I couldn't test summon because I couldn't pair my app with a car I did not own, but I don't think it would actually do the trick. The trickiest part isn't driving up the driveway - that part we could manage, maybe even with an X (with the mirrors folded). It's backing up at an angle into the small amount of space between my neighbor's car and the wall that is trickier. And that's the only way to make the corner around the wall. That's actually much tighter than the driveway itself. And they already leave about as much space as they can.
�

You know. You could just replace your house and keep the Model X. :smile:
�

aesculus said: ?

Wow. So so sorry. All I can think about after seeing your pictures was:
Click to expand...

After reading that all I can think of is...

�

MrBoylan said: ?

Ugh, as the world's biggest Tesla fan, I didn't expect to cancel my Model X order but it looks like that's where I am now. Going in and out of our driveway is tricky even with our tiny little Highlander. We live in attached house in NYC and getting in and out requires navigating around my neighbor's car, backing up next to her car then driving straight up a narrow common driveway with concrete walls on both sides. I confirmed our X order in December but the width has been a nagging concern. So my DS was nice enough to get me a Model S for an overnight test drive from the Mt. Kisco store. Getting the car in and out, even with the backup camera was way too stress-inducing, particularly for my wife, who didn't even want to attempt it. We could fit (barely) with the S, but with the extra 4 to 5 inches of the X, it just wouldn't have been doable. The proximity sensors on the S were almost useless in this situation as they don't have the necessary precision. They kept telling me to STOP in no uncertain terms even though there were still a few inches of clearance. And yeah, the power retracting mirrors do help, but since the back haunches of the S are wider than the front, I had to put the mirrors back out to make sure the back fenders were clearing the wall.

So driving a Tesla was fun while it lasted: taking my hands off the wheel and feet off the pedals on the Grand Central Parkway while Autopilot chauffeured us around, leaving gas-powered cars in the dust at a traffic light, just because I could, geeking out over the massive 17-inch touch-screen control panel and "filling up" just by plugging in. But it looks like I will have to defer those Tesla dreams until they make something smaller (Model 3 or Model Y), or we move. Hey, anyone want to buy a nice 3-BR house in Astoria?

Anyway, I envy you all with the space and am looking forward to owning a skinnier Tesla one day. Peace out!

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Bummer! So sorry to hear!

I know how excited you've been to get your X. This must just be a gutting realization.

Sounds like you just need to buy your neighbors' place so you have more room! ;-)
�

Why don't you just move? Sounds like a joke, or sarcasm (?) I assure you, I'm completely serious. :frown:

oh, now I see you are already on it. Good luck!
�

I felt claustrophobic just by looking at that driveway!
�

I understand the disappointment, Chris. I know how much you were looking forward to it. Hopefully we see something *amazing* on March 31st..
�

MrBoylan said: ?

Yeah, I don't think the sensors are fine enough to navigate these tight spaces, even with Summon. On the S, the display kept saying STOP with a loud beep when I still had some clearance. I couldn't test summon because I couldn't pair my app with a car I did not own, but I don't think it would actually do the trick. The trickiest part isn't driving up the driveway - that part we could manage, maybe even with an X (with the mirrors folded). It's backing up at an angle into the small amount of space between my neighbor's car and the wall that is trickier. And that's the only way to make the corner around the wall. That's actually much tighter than the driveway itself. And they already leave about as much space as they can.
Click to expand...

Might it be possible to trade parking spaces with your neighbor?
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MrBoylan said: ?

Yeah, I don't think the sensors are fine enough to navigate these tight spaces, even with Summon. On the S, the display kept saying STOP with a loud beep when I still had some clearance. I couldn't test summon because I couldn't pair my app with a car I did not own, but I don't think it would actually do the trick. The trickiest part isn't driving up the driveway - that part we could manage, maybe even with an X (with the mirrors folded). It's backing up at an angle into the small amount of space between my neighbor's car and the wall that is trickier. And that's the only way to make the corner around the wall. That's actually much tighter than the driveway itself. And they already leave about as much space as they can.
Click to expand...

There is a specific setting to allow summon to navigate tight spaces. But yeah, it looks and sounds like it would be a very tight fit one way or another. Hope it works out for you.
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MrBoylan said: ?

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Looks like my parking area, you should put outdoor carpet on the walls

Tesla Summon - YouTube
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MrBoylan said: ?

Yeah, I don't think the sensors are fine enough to navigate these tight spaces, even with Summon. On the S, the display kept saying STOP with a loud beep when I still had some clearance. I couldn't test summon because I couldn't pair my app with a car I did not own, but I don't think it would actually do the trick. The trickiest part isn't driving up the driveway - that part we could manage, maybe even with an X (with the mirrors folded). It's backing up at an angle into the small amount of space between my neighbor's car and the wall that is trickier. And that's the only way to make the corner around the wall. That's actually much tighter than the driveway itself. And they already leave about as much space as they can.
Click to expand...

I wonder if a future software update (7.2?) will be able to handle this situation???
�

Warrenbonz said: ?

Might it be possible to trade parking spaces with your neighbor?
Click to expand...

If it were any of the other neighbors, yes. This one? No. Definitely No. Plus even parking directly at the bottom of the driveway, without needing the complicated turn, the S was pretty close to scraping the walls. The X is almost 5 inches wider. I can't subject my wife to this, and she'd be the one doing most of the local driving in it. She was too nervous to even try getting out with the Model S. Also, so often we have to deal with double-parked cars on the narrow streets in Queens - we ourselves have to do this a lot when picking up/dropping off the kids and their friends. Navigating something that's actually wider than a Hummer H2 around these streets isn't a comforting prospect. If the sensors had a higher degree of precision, it might work, but that won't stop my X from getting clipped by other cars when they're trying to get around me. I loved that putting the car in park automatically retracts the mirrors, reducing the width, at least by a few inches. And I fully expect the side view mirrors to be removed entirely (replaced by low profile cameras) once that antiquated regulation is abolished. But I have to deal with what's available now.

When it was just a number on a screen, it seemed like it would work, but when I actually got hands-on with the S, it became clear that I was living in denial. Size matters. Again, I think the X is an amazing vehicle (as is the S). But it just won't work for us in our current living situation.

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MikeL said: ?

Why don't you just move? Sounds like a joke, or sarcasm (?) I assure you, I'm completely serious. :frown:

oh, now I see you are already on it. Good luck!
Click to expand...

Not serious about moving. We've been in this place for about 15 years, in the neighborhood for 25. We like it here. The kids like their schools, we're close to my wife's family, etc. Moving just to buy a car is a little too wacky, even for me (and even for this car). At this point, I'm leaning toward waiting for a Model 3 (assuming it's narrower!) and holding onto the Highlander for when we need to haul 7 people around. It would be tight to keep two cars back there, but our *other* neighbors are actually quite friendly and accommodating.

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ohmman said: ?

I understand the disappointment, Chris. I know how much you were looking forward to it. Hopefully we see something *amazing* on March 31st..
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+1. And hopefully something real and not just photos or renderings.

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DougH said: ?

Looks like my parking area, you should put outdoor carpet on the walls
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They're not my walls!

Tesla Summon - YouTube
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Oh, you've got gobs of space there! By the way, nice to give your S such a cushy platform. Is that AstroTurf?
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MrBoylan said: ?

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Does that slope rise up to ground/road level? If it does you could always fill that in to road level and have the slope start in the parking area.
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1208 said: ?

Does that slope rise up to ground/road level? If it does you could always fill that in to road level and have the slope start in the parking area.
Click to expand...

Yes, the driveway does slope up to road level in the front. But that driveway is not my property. In NYC, many houses are attached to other houses on one or both sides. In my case, a block of 5 houses are attached and our house is in the middle. The owner of the property on the end owns the driveway. By law, they must provide access to the other property owners so that we can access our parking spots/garages using this driveway. They can't build out their own house footprint beyond the initial footprint as that would impede our access.

But I don't think your suggestion would be feasible anyway. If the entire driveway were built up to road level, we would need a really steep ramp from there down to the parking spaces/backyards. All of our houses have back doors and garages back there at "ground level." But ground level in the back is about 5-6 feet below ground level in the front. So the gradual slope of the driveway makes sense.
�

Is anyone else concerned that there are three Model X's on Ebay right now? All of them have very low miles. Do you think this this any indication that people are not loving the car? Also, if there was a high demand you think these cars would sell quickly at even 10,000 or even more over sticker. I was told I am getting my car in the next couple weeks and this certainly makes me have second thoughts... Currently have an S.
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MichealW said: ?

Is anyone else concerned that there are three Model X's on Ebay right now? All of them have very low miles. Do you think this this any indication that people are not loving the car? Also, if there was a high demand you think these cars would sell quickly at even 10,000 or even more over sticker. I was told I am getting my car in the next couple weeks and this certainly makes me have second thoughts... Currently have an S.
Click to expand...

People just like money.
�

MichealW said: ?

Is anyone else concerned that there are three Model X's on Ebay right now? All of them have very low miles. Do you think this this any indication that people are not loving the car?
Click to expand...

They love the idea of making thousands of dollars by quickly flipping the vehicle they waited for years to buy more than they love the idea of actually owning the car.
They aren't selling their new X because they don't like the car. They like the idea of making a profit.
�

MichealW said: ?

Is anyone else concerned that there are three Model X's on Ebay right now? All of them have very low miles. Do you think this this any indication that people are not loving the car? Also, if there was a high demand you think these cars would sell quickly at even 10,000 or even more over sticker. I was told I am getting my car in the next couple weeks and this certainly makes me have second thoughts... Currently have an S.
Click to expand...

Car Scalpers. They'll turn a profit and then buy another X.
�

Short answer - no. Not concerned at all.
�

ecarfan said: ?

They love the idea of making thousands of dollars by quickly flipping the vehicle they waited for years to buy more than they love the idea of actually owning the car.
They aren't selling their new X because they don't like the car. They like the idea of making a profit.
Click to expand...

I guess I'm surprised that its not going for more. 10,000 over for a wait that long is kind of a deal in my opinion yet nobody seems to be jumping on it... I heard Range Rovers black on black were going for 35,000-50,000 over sticker at one point.
�

MichealW said: ?

I guess I'm surprised that its not going for more. 10,000 over for a wait that long is kind of a deal in my opinion yet nobody seems to be jumping on it... I heard Range Rovers black on black were going for 35,000-50,000 over sticker at one point.
Click to expand...

I think it's a valid question. I don't know the answer - but a $10k bump is better than a $20k loss as far as I can tell. I think it's better to rely on the real reviews from owners here, though. Guessing based on eBay listings is a pretty indirect way of gathering information. I know the early builds are having some issues; maybe new owners like the idea of pocketing a few grand and getting a car that's ready out of the box.

For now, I'll just continue to casually (cough, cough) peruse the MX threads and get my data that way.
�

ohmman said: ?

I think it's a valid question. I don't know the answer - but a $10k bump is better than a $20k loss as far as I can tell. I think it's better to rely on the real reviews from owners here, though. Guessing based on eBay listings is a pretty indirect way of gathering information. I know the early builds are having some issues; maybe new owners like the idea of pocketing a few grand and getting a car that's ready out of the box.

For now, I'll just continue to casually (cough, cough) peruse the MX threads and get my data that way.
Click to expand...

"casually" like Great White at an all-you-can eat seafood buffet.
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Bgarret said: ?

"casually" like Great White at an all-you-can eat seafood buffet.
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Hey! I resemble that remark! :redface: :tongue: :wink:
�

For those interested, it looks like I will be getting a refund for the $5K deposit, even though I confirmed my order almost two months ago. I got an e-mail today that the refund was being issued and I'm assuming it's for the full amount. $1K of that will be going down for a Model 3 on March 31. Let's hope that one is not as wide as the S/X.
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MrBoylan said: ?

For those interested, it looks like I will be getting a refund for the $5K deposit, even though I confirmed my order almost two months ago. I got an e-mail today that the refund was being issued and I'm assuming it's for the full amount. $1K of that will be going down for a Model 3 on March 31. Let's hope that one is not as wide as the S/X.
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Chris, that is good to hear. So bummed you cannot get the X to fit, so more waiting for the 3. Maybe you should move out here to California and to the country where there is lots of room.
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Merrill said: ?

Chris, that is good to hear. So bummed you cannot get the X to fit, so more waiting for the 3. Maybe you should move out here to California and to the country where there is lots of room.
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Yeah, moving has become a topic of some discussion lately, though not that serious. I do like the Bay area. But we wouldn't have to go that far to find open spaces. It's just that parts of NYC have some exceptionally tight spaces. There are wide open spaces in NJ, PA, CT, NY state. Even within NYC as you get a bit further out things open up a bit. Even within our neighborhood there are houses with driveways and garages in the front that wouldn't require the gyrations that we currently need to do to park. But personally I just hate moving and all that entails, and can't justify doing that for a car.
�

MrBoylan said: ?

But personally I just hate moving and all that entails, and can't justify doing that for a car.
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That sounds far too reasonable. Mods, can we limit MrBoylan's access to TMC - it appears he's using logic to evaluate his Tesla decisions.
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ohmman said: ?

That sounds far too reasonable. Mods, can we limit MrBoylan's access to TMC - it appears he's using logic to evaluate his Tesla decisions.
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LOL. Yeah. maybe I should be banned. What was I thinking? I should just sell the house and live in my X (but wait, the seats don't fold so how will I fit my bed?)
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MrBoylan said: ?

LOL. Yeah. maybe I should be banned. What was I thinking? I should just sell the house and live in my X (but wait, the seats don't fold so how will I fit my bed?)
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We just met with our builder and are replacing our dual garage doors with a single one, mounted closer to the ceiling, with a wall mounted opener. Why? Well.. we can't have anything interfere with the doors..
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MrBoylan said: ?

LOL. Yeah. maybe I should be banned. What was I thinking? I should just sell the house and live in my X (but wait, the seats don't fold so how will I fit my bed?)
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6 seater, plenty of room for a slightly modified army cot to run the length.
�

MrBoylan said: ?

Yeah, moving has become a topic of some discussion lately, though not that serious. I do like the Bay area. But we wouldn't have to go that far to find open spaces. It's just that parts of NYC have some exceptionally tight spaces. There are wide open spaces in NJ, PA, CT, NY state. Even within NYC as you get a bit further out things open up a bit. Even within our neighborhood there are houses with driveways and garages in the front that wouldn't require the gyrations that we currently need to do to park. But personally I just hate moving and all that entails, and can't justify doing that for a car.
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What about the weather and great wine!
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ohmman said: ?

We just met with our builder and are replacing our dual garage doors with a single one, mounted closer to the ceiling, with a wall mounted opener. Why? Well.. we can't have anything interfere with the doors..
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Nice. Can I keep my X at your house?

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Merrill said: ?

What about the weather and great wine!
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You make an excellent case. I have a friend in Nicasio (Marin) and a brother in Oakland. Plus all the nice Teslaphiles in the Bay area so there would be good company too.
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MrBoylan said: ?

Nice. Can I keep my X at your house?

- - - Updated - - -

You make an excellent case. I have a friend in Nicasio (Marin) and a brother in Oakland. Plus all the nice Teslaphiles in the Bay area so there would be good company too.
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I grew up in Larkspur not far from Nicasio, maybe ohmman can build a bigger garage and you can live there.
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I saw yet another article today about issues with the MX making me more reassurance that my decision to move on was a good one though I didn't come to gloat. Sorry for those that are having problems or are still in limbo waiting. Glad to hear at least Tesla is providing good customer service.
Early-build Tesla Model X SUVs face quality issues
�

Several little problems. Worth it though... Amazing car! I also had an earlier S and I expected this...
�

Historically there are problems with the first year of any model car no matter who manufactures it. I'm glad that Tesla always makes things right and that there are so many early adopters.
�

teslamotorclub

Chủ Nhật, 1 tháng 1, 2017

Gonna bail - anyone else? part 2

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