Dec 8, 2012
goaliemanshark Does anyone else's car fog up like crazy? Is it just the weather?
My headlights are even fogging! It's annoying!
Also unrelated, did your cars come with a frunk cargo net?�
Dec 8, 2012
Jason S Cars came with frunk cargo net.
Both my cars (the ICE and the S) fogged up pretty bad yesterday. Then again, it was foggy out too.�
Dec 8, 2012
AnOutsider I got the front net, but no license plate frame. Yes though, my windows fog up a LOT.�
Dec 8, 2012
darthy001 Do you have aircon on when getting this fogging?�
Dec 8, 2012
goaliemanshark No aircon.
My DS seems to think I shouldn't be getting a Frunk cargo net. I'll email Tesla.
I'll take some pictures. The fogged headlights don't look great. I thought headlights are sealed. The are fogged from the inside. As does my rear view camera, gets really wet too. Rain-X?�
Dec 8, 2012
Jeeps17 If your windows are fogging in your temperate climates, I am not encouraged as to how it will be in winter... Not much worse than windows covered with frozen water vapor on the inside of the car, especially if it occurs despite using the ventilation system / A/C.
Anemic ventilation / defrosting ability would be one of the few things that would make me consider cancelling my reservation...
Say it ain't so!�
Dec 8, 2012
darthy001 Ah ok. I always have aircon on to avoid fogging. Havent seen fogging in any of my cars due to this.�
Dec 8, 2012
goaliemanshark The defrosters work great, but the headlights fogging on the inside is real problem!�
Dec 8, 2012
FlasherZ The chemicals coming from the new materials are placing a coating upon the windows that absorbs moisture and fogs up. Paper towels and a good glass cleaner should help quite a bit. I noticed the fogging at about 600 miles or so and it fogs much less if you keep the inside of the glass clean.�
Dec 8, 2012
brianman Yes, in about 45 deg weather. If I tap the rear defroster all is well, but with that unlit and "Auto" for all the other Climate Control it fogs up. Also, when it's 40-50 the auto fan speed isn't fast enough to keep me warm.�
Dec 8, 2012
Jason S This! The windshield interior is much clearer where I've been able to wipe it clean. (Bit hard to get to the very front of it.)�
Dec 8, 2012
dtich um, yeah, headlamps should be sealed... anyone else having this condensation on the inside issue? this is a 'replace headlamp assembly' thing if ever i heard one..�
Dec 8, 2012
Doug_G The Roadsters had fogging headlight problems in spades until they came out with improved units. Presumably they've learned from that experience so maybe you've got defective or improperly installed units?�
Dec 8, 2012
Jason S Headlamps should be clear imho. Haven't noticed foggy headlamps on our S.�
Dec 8, 2012
dtich s'what i'm sayin....�
Dec 8, 2012
goaliemanshark Interesting. Maybe it's just me!�
Dec 8, 2012
cinergi The interior of the Model S fogs easily because it's so well sealed. You need to run the fan and/or A/C.
I don't see it being an issue in the Winter -- it's just that it's really easy to increase the interior humidity; when the exterior temp is 45F, the heat and fan barely runs, so it fogs up. That will likely not be true in <32F conditions (which is so far what I've observed).�
Dec 9, 2012
Robert.Boston It occurs to me that people should check whether they are on recirculate or fresh-air. Humans emit a great deal of water vapor.�
Dec 9, 2012
brianman Funny, last time I mentioned recirculate most of the replies said it has nothing to do with defogging. Until the Texas folks chimed in.
�
Dec 9, 2012
Lloyd
Ugly bags of mostly water!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paH97dYR6Lg
�
Dec 11, 2012
strider frunk cargo net is standard for sigs, optional for GP's.�
Dec 11, 2012
Lloyd Where do you order one?�
Dec 11, 2012
EarlyAdopter Ugh. Season 1. Oh, the pain! Make it stop!
Back on topic, in order from most fogging to least fogging:
(Most fogging)
1. Recirculate with A/C compressor off.
2. Outside air with A/C compressor off.
3. Recirculate with A/C compressor on.
4. Outside air with A/C compressor on.
(Least fogging)
If your windows are fogging up, check that A/C is on, even if you're heating. If that still doesn't work, make sure recirculate isn't on.
The headlights are just fubared. They should never fog.�
Dec 12, 2012
efusco R77 got it without asking.
Evan, Via Tapatalk�
Dec 12, 2012
darthy001 Finally did a testdrive here in Oslo today. Temp was -7C and i noticed halfway that the rear window fogged up completely and then followed by the front window. It went away within seconds by using the defroster, but I have to admit i find it strange that it happened at all. Did not notice if the AC was on since I was so focused on enjoying the way to short ride..
As a comparison I drove to the tesla store and back in my 2012 VW Tiguan and had no fogging whatsoever in the exact same conditions.�
Dec 12, 2012
ElSupreme 1 and 2
or
3 and 4
could be swapped if it is raining, or otherwise very humid outside. My GTI seems to suck in water/humidity when it is raining.�
Dec 12, 2012
mknox Really? I've seen no listing for that as an option or its price.
The last car I bought (a hatchback) showed a cargo area carpeted mat as "standard equipment" in the brochure, but my car was delivered without one. I argued with the dealer for quite a bit and was told that the brochure was "out of date" and that the mat was now an extra-cost option. Never did get the mat. I guess changes like this are kind of "the norm".�
Dec 12, 2012
sublimaze1 Woo hoo! Freebie for me !!!!
______
As for the fogging, left front window does quite often. None now that the temp has dropped, but I expect it to return.�
Dec 12, 2012
strider That's what our DS Ian told us when I asked about it at factory delivery last Sunday (12/9). He said that we'd be able to buy it on the website or at a store "soon".
Guess they were still in "Sig mode" for the early folks like Evan and they included it.�
Dec 13, 2012
GSP My Volt seems to fog up easier than other cars as well. The defroster works well, but uses a lot of energy.
Cracking the windows 1/2" helps.
When not running the defrost or A/C, directing air flow to your feet, instead of the windshield, when turning the car on will keep humid air from the ducts from hitting the cold windshield.
GSP�
Dec 13, 2012
sp4rk Ditto my Leaf! Wonder why EV's fog up more than ICE's?�
Dec 13, 2012
Zextraterrestrial I have a net too, It keeps beer/ cider in it's place ;>�
Dec 13, 2012
goaliemanshark This was my headlight last night...
�
Dec 13, 2012
eledille I have a trick to deal with fogging: I put a couple of 500 g bags of silica gel desiccant in both my cars. It doesn't completely remove fogging, but it helps prevent ice on the inside of the windows, and it also absorbs some of the moisture from the floor etc. They absorb a couple of hundred grams of water each before they have to be regenerated.
The downside is that I have to remember to bake the bags in a microwave oven every week or so. I still find that to be less of a hassle than wiping moisture off the windows or scraping away the ice. Might be worth a try.�
Dec 13, 2012
JakeP Cargo net is in the TeslaShop today, $49. No idea why we are discussing it in the Fogging thread!
Model S - Functional Tesla Motors�
Dec 13, 2012
strider I use the well in the rear for that. Closing the frunk is a pain
The OP asked 2 questions in his first post�
Dec 13, 2012
FlasherZ It's still very beneficial to wipe off the layer of "gunk" that accumulates on the inside surface of the windows as all the new materials in the car give off their manufacturing gases. You'll find it fogs up far less often when you do this.�
Dec 13, 2012
Zextraterrestrial Especially with a beer in your hand
I put my cover in the rear well in a 'large' fashion last week and haven't dealt with it yet. Maybe I'll wash my car and put it on it again.
Fogging - my headlamps had a tiny fog in them after they had been on for a while then parked for a while
interior windows are difficult. I put rain-x anti fog on the inside and I can see where I missed it. Seems to work ok. At least it is a little better�
Dec 13, 2012
Nikoli Wait, there's no cargo net standard?
[sigh] my bank account hates me ( or will in a couple days time )
|
V�
Dec 13, 2012
gmontem
My brown non-Sig Model S comes with a frunk cargo net.
Sent from my Nokia Lumia 920 using Board Express�
Dec 13, 2012
Robert.Boston Ditto; my non-Sig has a cargo net included, separating the "slot" at the back of the frunk from the main area.�
Dec 14, 2012
eledille Right, I'll remember that when I finally get mine. Thanks�
Dec 14, 2012
goaliemanshark Emailed Tesla, they confirmed that the cargo net isn't standard.
I'm not happy about this... Talk about nickel and diming!
They also said they would forward my picture to the service center. Dunno what that's gonna do, I'll just go there myself.�
Dec 14, 2012
MikeK Cargo net for the frunk is on my due bill. It would be really annoying if Tesla started to nickel and dime customers on stuff like this. The "parcel shelf" is already ridiculous at $250.�
Dec 14, 2012
calsailor Hey, looks like Tesla has 'made it' and is joining the ranks of the big boy automakers.
$50 for a $5 net for $100k car.
Congratulations Tesla!�
Dec 15, 2012
pilotSteve Uhh my Sig came with the front net installed, I didn't ever ask for it I just assumed it was standard. YMMV I guess.....�
Dec 15, 2012
Francis Lau I was told by my DS that the frunk cargo net comes with the parcel shelf; which is on due bill for me.�
Dec 15, 2012
teslasguy I wasn't home when the trucker dropped off my car. Where did you find the "due bill" some refer to?
P1117 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk�
Dec 15, 2012
pilotSteve Aha, I have a due bill Parcel sheld. So it's the special Frunk net why the Parcel Shelf is so expensive�
Dec 15, 2012
gg_got_a_tesla Probably inspired by their Silicon Valley neighbors, Apple, and their $49+ adapters�
Dec 15, 2012
napabill P-83 got a net, without asking.�
Dec 17, 2012
Robert.Boston Back on-topic....
I thoroughly cleaned the insides of my windows on Saturday morning. This substantially eliminated the fogging problem I had had on first delivery.�
Dec 17, 2012
Zextraterrestrial Last night I cleaned my windows inside and out w/ windex then put rainx on the outside & rainx anti-fog on the inside. Seems pretty awesome now. Cleaning the windows well before and wiping them thoroughly after applying rainx seems to be the key to it working good.
I breathed 'heavily' on one of the interior windows to try and fog it but it wouldn't :smile:
I'll really see how it works on Friday when I have my two 'steamy' dogs in the car on Friday ( for 6+ hours!)�
Dec 25, 2012
retinadoc Brilliant solution Zext. I love this forum for the creative problem solving that it generates. I hope Tesla follows it as closely as I do.�
Dec 26, 2012
SigGuy I was pretty excited about this solution until I searched it and saw the Amazon reviews for this product. Looks like most people are unhappy with the results and say it makes the windshield looks permanently foggy. Sounds like we have one local report of success here, have others tries this product with the MS? Anyone else able to share results? I'm scared to try this given the amount of negativity on Amazon.�
Dec 26, 2012
Lloyd I applied Rainx antifog today and as long as you apply it evently with a clean paper towel it appears very clear. If any streaks appear as it dries, you can buff it with the drying paper towel you used to apply it with.�
Dec 26, 2012
Todd Burch I still think a lot of this has to do with offgassing from the manufacturing process. Particles adhere to the glass and serve as condensation nuclei for water droplets (fogging). That's why many are reporting improvement after cleaning the windows.�
Dec 26, 2012
kevincwelch Sound like a reasonable conclusion. But aren't some drivers noticing measurable differences in airflow when comparing driver side to passenger side? That seems like the issue. Otherwise offgassing would be a bilateral problem for the windows.
Sent via Tapatalk.�
Dec 26, 2012
Todd Burch Yes, that could certainly be contributing. Don't have my car yet so can't participate in that discussion.�
Dec 26, 2012
EcoHeliGuy RainX anti fog is one of those products where less is more. And you buff it back off. Most people try to apply it as a coat.
When not applied properly it pretty much looks exactly like the problem people are having with the model s now.�
Dec 26, 2012
4sevens.com Theres no way off-gassing would create THAT much fogging... if it were passengers would probably be choking from the chemicals.
Keep in mind that if you have a car full of people - 5 adults - thats 5 heat and humidity generating "entities" and with temps near freezing outside it's easy to have issues with fogging. It takes a strong AC and heater system running full blast to clear out the air.�
Dec 26, 2012
mknox This is a problem that has been largely solved by the auto industry. I live in S. Ontario, Canada where temps can range from 100*F in summer to -20*F in winter. I often travel with 4 or 5 passengers, including those with snowy boots in the winter, and have never had fogging problems in any of my cars for years. One little trick I use when I know I'm more susceptible to fogging is to turn the fan speed higher and use bi-level (floor and dash vents). Typically "Auto" wants to keep heat to the floor and lowers the fan speed as the car warms up.�
Dec 27, 2012
Todd Burch Sure there is. (I'm a former meteorologist who has studied cloud seeding and...well...fog...)
The off-gassing is not the direct cause of the fogging--but the indirect cause of at least some of it. (Can't quantify how much since I don't yet have my car). If you can smell "new car smell", there are plenty of offgas particles in the cabin that can serve as condensation nuclei. Couple those with the cold window surface, and boom. Water droplets.�
Dec 27, 2012
screebo On manual, the defogger works fine but not in Auto Climate control. I'm told one of the next FW updates will address Auto mode doing a better job of defogging. Auto mode will need to run the A/C more often and a higher rate of fan speed as well as duct selection for the Auto mode to keep up with "wet jacket" related fogging. The A/C running full bore is needed to remove the moisture from the cockpit when the inside air is saturated with moisture. My latest FW update came Christmas day and is now version 4.1.�
Dec 27, 2012
FlasherZ Exactly. This is why you don't want to use those stupid "smell pretty" containers of gel-laden crystals. All they do is off-gas and create a coating on the inside of the windshield (like off-gassing of new materials) that creates a condensation surface.�
Dec 27, 2012
RDoc I'm not convinced at all about outgassing being a significant cause of persistant interior fogging. No new car I've owned (since I stopped driving Alfas) has ever had a problem clearing interior window fogging or even ice/frost on the outside once the engine warmed up. These are all New England cars.�
Dec 27, 2012
Todd Burch It depends on the materials used. Again, I don't have my car so I can't verify, but based on other reports that cleaning the window properly significantly reduces the fogging, condensation nuclei would be the major culprit.�
Dec 27, 2012
FlasherZ As a person who has had his car since last month, I can tell you that cleaning the interior surface of the window significantly reduces the fogging that happens in the interior. There is a coating that forms -- and you can see it when you wipe it off -- that is attracting the moisture.�
Dec 27, 2012
Robert.Boston Even though I mostly buy new cars, I've never had a car this new. Typically cars have spent weeks in transit and/or on dealer lots, giving them time to off-gas. My Model S was still in the factory four weeks ago, so continuing off-gassing is to be expected.
In any case, even if it's not a full/permanent solution, cleaning the windows seems to help.�
Dec 27, 2012
strider Excellent point RB. I would say most new cars are months old, not just weeks, especially if they're built out of country.
Cleaning the windows makes a huge difference. I've also found you can manually select the defrost and floor vents and set the A/C to ON and it makes a huge difference. I like the defrost/floor option as I hate the air blowing in my face - it dries out my eyes.�
Dec 28, 2012
darthy001 I dont think this i a valid "excuse" to be honest. My current VW Tiguan was custom built and I got it delivered just two weeks after it was produced. I have never seen a hint of fogging in it. Not even fully packed with 5people in it and -15C outside. AC gets rid of all fogging without breaking a sweat�
Dec 28, 2012
goaliemanshark Well I picked up my S at the factory hours after it left the production line. They cleaned it before I got it. Significant new car still resides with the car, weeks after I got it. Off gassing is causing a lot of the fogging! All of it? Probably not. But a lot�
Dec 28, 2012
GSP When comparing the Model S to cars one has owned in the past, please consider the EVs appear to fog more than ICEs. I have to run the defroster in my Volt more than my past ICE cars. It seems to fog up significantly more. Leaf owners have reported the same (probably earlier in this very thread).
ICE cars have plenty of waste heat that reduces fogging.
GSP�
Dec 28, 2012
Doug_G My Roadster does not have fogging problems any worse than any ICE that I've owned...�
Dec 28, 2012
strider The car may have been ASSEMBLED two weeks before you got it but I doubt the seats and all the plastic moldings were produced only 2 weeks before you got the car. Tesla's factory is extremely vertically integrated with injection molding, seat production, etc happening right on site and as-needed.
I also think that in Auto climate mode Tesla is being stingy with the A/C to keep power consumption down. On my Corvette and Subaru if you put the car in Auto it would run the A/C full-time. In the Model S if I turn the A/C to "On" then no fogging occurs.�
Dec 28, 2012
darthy001 You might be right about the difference in productionstyles.
As a sidenote I experienced heavy fogging during my 15minute testdrive here in Norway and thats why I'm following these threads so carefully. It really caught me off guard since I havent seen that since the early 90s in anything remotely close to being a new car...
I believe that the car I drove is at least 3months old now, and it must have been cleaned numerous times during its life so far being a democar that was sent to Germany sometime in october or earlier. Far more cleaning of such cars as compared to what normal people would do on their own personal cars.�
Dec 28, 2012
Al Sherman I understand that a lot more folks are not having this problem than are. I also understand that even people that are having this problem still love the car. Still, this is clearly a problem and NEEDS to be fixed. I believe (and hope) it will be.�
Dec 28, 2012
Zextraterrestrial The car is very well sealed. And I disagree, but I'm not in snow or ice. I had 2 dogs (70-100 lbs) and my wife in my S and temps between 35 and 50 F. Fogging wasn't bad on my 600 miles of driving in rain. I turned the front defrost on 68-69 w/out AC when the front window had a hint of moisture beading on the lower passenger corner (not fog)
+ my car has less fogging issues than it did when it had the new car smell�
Dec 28, 2012
rcc Agree with the comments on manufacturing. Tesla builds as much as it can on-site. The car seats are done by an outside firm but Tesla insisted that the Tesla seats had to be built on-site to make coordination efficient and fast. So they are.
I got my car two days after it rolled off the line. The "new carpet" smell was really really intense. Lots and lots of outgassing. A week later the smell is mostly gone and the outgassing has reduced but both are still there.
The heating may need some more A/C in the mix too but I think we're going to need some time to let the outgassing calm down before we know for sure.�
Dec 28, 2012
mknox There was another thread (which, for the life of me, I can no longer find) where someone noted that the Tesla Design Studio photos now show what appears to be side window defogging vents on the A-pillars:
I stopped by the Toronto store today, and neither the White store model nor the Grey test drive car have them:
I wonder if Tesla has been quietly listening and have made modifications to the design? If so, would Tesla retrofit existing customers' cars, or is this just something we may see going forward?�
Dec 28, 2012
Doug_G My car doesn't have them, either.
Might be the other way 'round... was originally going to have them then didn't do it.
Regardless they are needed.�
Dec 28, 2012
dsm363 My Rangers said he would look into if ducting was already there and if it would be something they could add easily or not later. Sounds like they decided not to do it for some reason though.�
Dec 28, 2012
contaygious In sf I hardly ever used my defogger before, but already used it a few times in the s even coming out of my garage. Hope it is fixed somehow.�
Dec 28, 2012
eelton I think it's correct that the A-pillar vent was originally planned, but then dropped. It's visible in this prototype model S:
BulletTrain BulletBlog by JakeE: Tesla S. Prototype with Iron Man
�
Dec 28, 2012
AnOutsider And the signature badging and the original lacewood I loved�
Dec 28, 2012
mknox Dammit! They have a Beta in the Toronto store, and I forgot to check that one out! Oh well, another excuse to go back to the store :smile:
One other thing I did while I was there was to turn on the defrost and run my hand across the vent. I noticed two things: The airflow seems to only come from the center portion of the grill, and because of the grill's style. it just seemed to blow out without being particularly directed at the windshield. When I got back to my own car, I noticed its defroster vent is only in the center portion of the dash, but it has (fixed) directional louvers that do direct the airflow at and across the glass. (I also have the side window vents too).
Unrelated, but the store's car had firmware 4.0 and I noticed that the drop down for the driver profiles gets blocked out by the backup camera screen. Only the backup camera, though. It drops (properly) on top of other screens in the top frame.�
Dec 28, 2012
FlasherZ This happens if you have more than one Homelink entry as well, but it's fixed in 4.1, the camera screen drops below any open menus.�
Dec 28, 2012
stopcrazypp Don't have a Model S or EV (yet), but I just had fogging happen in my ICE car (it's probably one of the coldest winters I have experienced in the Bay Area outside temps about 45 degree F, plus it was raining). Basically having the AC blasting at the windshield was effective, even with the temperature set to cool (no heating, because like another poster, I don't like the stuffy feeling). I pressed recirculate to reduce the A/C load (big mistake it turns out) and immediately the window fogged. I had to turn the fans to max for a long while before the windows cleared.
Basically the A/C is most important because it dehumidifies the air (humidity causes fogging). Heating might make things worse unless the temperature is set really high and the hot air has a good "shot" at the glass such that it actually warms the glass (because fogging is caused by the glass being colder than the air inside the car). And whatever you do don't use recirculate, because it keeps all humidity all inside the car.�
Dec 29, 2012
EcoHeliGuy my jeep Cherokee also had only a center vent. I can tell you in Alberta winters full of passengers. Defog could not clear about 8 inches in from pilar edges. It did not have A/C thou.�
Jan 19, 2013
Jeeps17 I just had very useful series of e-mail exchanges with Kimbal Musk, George B, and Joost de Vries concerning the new ventilation ducts, and winter tires - specifically whether bi-annual tire swaps are included in the annual maintenance in Canada (which I posted in the Canada - Winter Tires thread). The gist of the information is below.
I must say that I have been thoroughly impressed by the level of interaction these three busy individuals have shown in addressing my concerns, taking the time to reply promptly and personally to a single customer. I made sure to note this in my replies to them.
Quoted from Joost de Vries:
"Regarding the windshield defroster functionality (or lack thereof), we got the 1st prototype parts last week and we have been testing them in a �30c cold weather chamber to make sure they will do the job. The good news is they do and we should have parts available late next week. I have requested my Service Managers to start reaching out to existing customers in the affected areas to schedule a service appointment to do the change. For new vehicle builds into Canada it will be a Service fix before delivery as the final production tooling will kick off only later this year. The retrofit on the defrosting is pretty straightforward. We loosen the A pillar trims left and right, lift out the dashboard top, remove the mesh screen. Insert the new directional air flow pieces, install the new mesh screen and reassembly the dashboard top and A pillar trim. It'll be less than an hour work. I am confident our customers will regard this issue as resolved once they experience the new venting system."
Unfortunately the tooling for the new ductwork will not be ready for my car's production (est. delivery march-april), so it will be a retrofit for me. Still great news !�
Jan 19, 2013
Doug_G Awesome news - I gotta say, that is really fast turnaround!�
Jan 19, 2013
znino It is good news because we all need this to work properly but I hate the idea that they are going to open things up and go into the dash. In my experience, once that is done, the car will never be as tight and you can expect new vibrations or rattles to appear. Unfortunate but what can you do?�
Jan 19, 2013
Lloyd I don't think that is the case with this car. It is meant to be easily taken apart and maintain its integrity. I believe everyone will be happy. This is not your standard GM or BMW dash!�
Jan 19, 2013
JohnQ Great new and thanks for sharing. I'm in the same Mar/Apr timeframe and disappointed it won't be done on the line but at least it will be done before delivery.�
Jan 19, 2013
ToddRLockwood They didn't read the directions! It helps to keep a spray bottle filled with plain water nearby. When you get to the final buffing stage, you're supposed to wet the glass slightly before buffing with a paper towel. That removes the haze. When treating the outside of the windows, it's a good idea to repeat the entire procedure. Rain-X is amazing in a hard rain.
- - - Updated - - -
The cargo net has been reduced to $20.
- - - Updated - - -
Great news about the dash ductwork upgrade! This is the real solution to the fogging problem.�
Jan 19, 2013
Hank42 So, is this being treated like a recall, or a Technical service bulletin? In otherwords, will it be deployed to the existing fleet of of 2000 or so Model S's in the wild and at what cost?�
Jan 19, 2013
JakeP As Doug states above, it is likely a very small fraction of the current ownership in environments with winter conditions that this is an issue.
Florida people chime in, but straight humidity sounds like it is easily controlled by setting climate controls in a certain manner (perhaps outlined by NigelM in an earlier post).�
Jan 19, 2013
Doug_G I'm sure Florida isn't an issue. All they need to do is turn on the air conditioner and any fog will disappear in seconds.�
Jan 20, 2013
Thinker Hi all
As an EV driver (Think City - 2008 model) in cold and wet climate, I have the following experience
1. Make sure to use the ventilation setting to fresh air, and NOT recirculation
2. Airflow is more important than heath, but here in Norway it is also cold, so heating is on anyway (-15C today)
3. My Think does not have AC, but if I had, it is true it does take away humidity.
4. However, my Think does have heated front shield (window) which is fabulous, particularly with ice and snow. A few minutes on, and all is gone, and no fogging either.
Bottom line, one small product improvement (optional, as only "required" in cold places�
Jan 20, 2013
JohnQ Perhaps, but people move north and cars get sold. I would expect this fix to be applied across all vehicles, regardless of location, until the modification is placed into production.�
Jan 20, 2013
mulder1231 Yeah, this retrofit should be on the to-do list of the first annual service check, for those in the not so cold climates.�
Jan 20, 2013
dsm363 I want it but don't mind waiting. Have never seen it here in Texas of course.�
Jan 20, 2013
Robert.Boston Great news on the vent improvements. New Englanders will want this; although our winter conditions haven't been very wintry this season, February and March are often snowy, wet, and high humidity.�
Jan 20, 2013
wycolo > It is meant to be easily taken apart and maintain its integrity. [Lloyd]
Says who?? Just sayin' . . .
--�
Jan 20, 2013
znino I agree. Says who? Tesla? I don't think factory assembly is the same as service center assembly. Ever. And the more you fiddle with any assembled product the more it becomes loose over time. I have seen it with top of the line Mercedes cars and see no reason why or how tesla would have designed anything that can avoid this. It's just a shame that a brand new $100000 car has to be opened up for a modification such as this. Frankly I kept hearing about how much winter testing they did with the car. I expected that any issues that are so consistent and widespread would have been caught prior to final design.�
Jan 20, 2013
dsm363 Most cars don't go from drawing board to delivery in 3 years though so they did a very rapid development. I would think the Model S this time next year will be slightly more refined and by 2015 will have many of the features people expect in this price point.�
Jan 20, 2013
Doug_G I've seen a Model S interior partially disassembled by a Ranger (not mine, it was visiting from out of town, and I offered a place to work so our friendly Ranger wouldn't freeze!). The clips that hold the interior panels on are quite robust, but are also mounted so as to be tighter than is usual. As a result the clips often break when the panels are removed. The Rangers come equipped with lots of spares for that very reason. The tight clips mean the panels don't rattle.�
Jan 20, 2013
Jeeps17 I had an unpleasant experience with an Infiniti (otherwise fantastic car) that had a faulty ECU and required the dash to be worked in. After that was done, I definetly noticed more squeaks, especially in winter.
In this context, I asked Joost de Vries about it, and again he replied promptly (big props to him, on a sunday!):
Quoted from Joost de Vries:
"Regarding production vs. service. The BIG difference between Tesla and our industry colleagues is that we own all our service centers and every person that touches our cars is employed by Tesla
and working on a salary rather than flat rate times. This unlike every other car manufacturer where a local dealer is a private company that may or may not decide to keep their technicians trained by their various franchise OE's and normally pays their technicians on a flat rate time which fosters the need to 'hurry up' rather than fix a car correctly.
There really is no difference between service building a car in Quebec vs. the factory building a car in Fremont. It is the same people with the same processes. All service technicians worldwide
have worked in the factory, and are trained on the repair and build processes.
This particular retrofit is a very simple straightforward change of a few components, and we see no issues with this in the field. The timing of final production parts will be months away as the tooling lead time is simply not a matter of weeks but many months.
I hope this allays your fears regarding your Infiniti experience."
Given the above, and the info reported by Doug_G, I consider my concerns allayed, and will give Tesla the benefit of the doubt.
So far I am a very satisfied customer, who just happens to not have his car yet...�
Jan 20, 2013
znino Then I too am relieved and will give them the benefit of the doubt. I suspect that the build design for the S was far more scrutinized than what was present with the Roadster (Lotus?). The Rattles and squeaks on the Roadster are plenty and with every time they touch the dash it gets worse. My hopes with what has been said is that the S will behave completely differently.�
Jan 20, 2013
dsm363 The Model S is ten times better than the Roadster in the squeaks department so am glad they can address this issue for everyone too.�
Jan 20, 2013
adurstewitz FYI - Fogging is really bad here in NC while its raining. Have had to setup the blowers to stay on the front window.�
Jan 20, 2013
CanuckS#69 Personally, I can see where this issue might not have come up in testing. I'm an hour north of Toronto and have driven in plenty of snowy and cold conditions. I've only experience fogging once, quickly cured by increasing fan speed and shifting to fresh air. I did note the problem with the defrost setting returning to different settings than before engaging it, so I've left my fan speed high and airflow to the windscreen on.
One difference that might be significant is that I dislike the "new car smell" produced by off gassing and thus left the car in my garage with the pano open for the first week. My car also sat for several weeks before I was able to pick it up due to health issues.
I'm definitely interested in the proposed fix, but I don't have any serious concerns besides minor firmware fixes with the current performance. When I read of others with actual ice forming, I have to think that there may be other variables involved.�
Jan 20, 2013
Dr.Ling Greatest idea ever.
People in snowy and icy places really hate scraping ice while waiting for the car to heat up. Electric car-cabin pre-heaters (and engine-block heaters) have a huge market up here in the northern countries for that very reason.
If Tesla offered heated windshields, and of course the opportunity to remotely turn the heat on / timer-system for pre-heating (how's the progress on that by the way?), I and many others would gladly pay for it. Not that Tesla are having any trouble attracting orders from Norway, but nonetheless....�
Jan 20, 2013
mknox Curious about "shifting to fresh air". Every car I've owned has defaulted to fresh air unless Max A/C is selected in the summer. Using "Recirculate" in the winter is a sure-fire way to get window fogging. Is Mode S defaulting to "Recircuate"? That would sure explain all of the fogging we're hearing about.�
Jan 20, 2013
znino I cannot. It is a problem that has been reported plenty and almost across the board. Consider yourself lucky if you have not had it. They are testing a car for production. That is not done by taking it on two hours of driving in cold weather. It is hours and hours of tests at different temperatures and humidities. Whatever...as long as they fix it.�
Jan 20, 2013
Doug_G It's humidity. My second road trip was at -12C and nearly 100% humidity (snowstorm). After about 1.5 hours the ice was thick enough I couldn't see anything through it, and had to stop to buy a scraper. This wasn't an isolated incident as I have used the scraper on several subsequent days.�
Jan 20, 2013
ebbrey A heated windshield would make alot of sense in cold climates for this car. Combine it with a heated steering wheel too and you could save alot of energy during winter, instead of full on AC
Crossing fingers and toes for some "new" options for the EU version, tho highly unlikely�
Jan 20, 2013
mulder1231 Benefit of the doubt? That doesn't sound like you're all that convinced. Personally, after reading that fantastic reponse from Joost de Vries, I have complete fate in the capabilities of Tesla service people in the field.
Tesla is the greatest car company with a far superior business model. :love:�
Jan 20, 2013
NigelM Fogging disappears in about 1 second, but we're right in the middle of our dry season at the moment.�
Jan 20, 2013
Jeeps17 Mulder1231,
I was also very impressed with the rapid and forthcoming responses I got from the Tesla execs, but unlike you I do not see "giving them the benefit of the doubt" as a negative, rather they have not lost my confidence that they can resolve this issue without creating new problems (for example, squeaks and rattles after reassembling the dash). As I posted previously, I am still a happy customer.
However, IMHO this fogging issue should have been picked up during the cold weather testing... but Tesla realizes it is a real problem, and is quickly taking steps to correct it.
Thus the situation is not optimal (i.e. problem fixed during testing, customers never affected), but its ongoing resolution is still very good (and enormously above average when compared with their automotive competitors).
Agree with your :love: Tesla !
:biggrin:�
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