May 24, 2015
chriSharek So the local TESLA STORE let me take a P85D home for my birthday since I ordered mine earlier that day. We went to the grocery store this morning and on the way home, I pull up to a light and a Deputy Sheriff pulls up next to me (pole positions and his lane ends in 1/4 mile). NOT in insane mode, I floored it - right up to the speed limit of 45 mph. I absolutely blew the doors off his cruiser.
Apparently, he didn't appreciate that. He pulled me over.
He asks me for my name, address, and date of birth and heads back to his cruiser.
Comes back and says he could cite me for an "unsafe start" @ $160 ticket. But, is citing me for not having my driver's license - $110 ticket, but will be $10 administrative fee if I can go downtown with my DL and show it.
But, here's the kicker. He wrote the ticket for another person that lives up in St. Pete! Some poor guy also named Robert (I go by my middle name Chris) up in St. Pete now has this on his record! Different name, different address, different date of birth than what I spelled out for the cop! I'll head downtown on Tuesday and hopefully get it straightened out.
Thought everyone here would appreciate this story. I'm 3 months away from my Model S and I've already gotten pulled over! I haven't had a ticket in 5 years!�
May 24, 2015
dsm363 Congrats?. Crazy story. Did you floor it or just normal quick start.
�
May 24, 2015
mynameisjim Why would you do that?�
May 24, 2015
AnOutsider Unsafe start? I could see display of speed, but my S always seems pretty controlled. Unless you floored it of course, then I could see some tail-wagging.
Either way, not something I'd do right next to a cop, unless he gave me the nod and grin.�
May 24, 2015
TexasEV As a soon-to-be Tesla owner, one of the first things to know in telling Tesla stories is there is no such thing as a "local dealership". You bought the car at a Tesla store. That's one of the great things about Tesla-- direct sales, no dealers.�
May 24, 2015
ecarfan I can't believe you did a max acceleration run (even in Sport mode that is very quick in a P85D) right next to a law enforcement officer on a surface street. That can easily be interpreted as reckless driving.
You are lucky the fine was relatively small.�
May 24, 2015
caddieo This^^^^. I , too, am puzzled as to why you would do this especially since his lane was due to end and he had to shift. Does not reflect well on other Tesla owners/drivers.�
May 24, 2015
Cosmacelf It completely sucks, but most cops simply do not see the humor in anything that might even remotely be construed as challenging their "authority". Be glad he didn't call for backup and started shooting up your car. While some cops are great and cool, you never know when you'll get an *******, and *******s with guns who believe they have the right to use it are not to be trifled with.
There was another story here of a person gunning it on a freeway on ramp with a cop near them - same result, they were pulled over, but in that case the cop just wanted to chat.
So yeah, totally within the law, and you would have been able to fight the unsafe start BS (but of course, not the driver's license thing), but it isn't worth the risk of a situation that spirals out of control.�
May 24, 2015
MarkR The cop wasn't "losing to a Model S" because he wasn't trying to race . . . even up to 45mph. I'd say you just lost to a cop . . . even in a P85D.�
May 24, 2015
Johan U R crazy dude. Could have lost your licence for a long time if the cop was in the mood for it. Just because you're below the speed limit doesn't mean you can accelerate as fast as you like, on a public street.�
May 24, 2015
gg_got_a_tesla Yeah, poor choice to accelerate like that in such a scenario. With a cop anywhere in the vicinity, I'm the very-well-behaved-kid-on-the-block.�
May 24, 2015
Max* I bet the OP didn't expect this outcome from his thread.�
May 24, 2015
capt601 Another thing to add to the list " only in Florida".�
May 24, 2015
artsci This is so right. Always be courteous and polite, and especially give cop cars the right of way. You "road raged" the cop -- not good.�
May 24, 2015
SW2Fiddler Happy Birthday.�
May 24, 2015
Phil K This is unwise to say the least. The cop could make it a very memorable birthday of you.�
May 24, 2015
Ugliest1 On the other hand, I have no problem passing a cop who is travelling 5mi/hr under the speed limit - even though often there are 50 cars behind the cop who it seems are either in a rally or too scared to pass a cop ever. My passing, however, is very carefully cruise-controlled right at the speed limit or maybe 1 mi/hr faster. :scared:�
May 24, 2015
Just a Reader At least the Tesla doesn't backfire, so no reason for the cop to start shooting because he felt "threatened".�
May 24, 2015
SeminoleFSU Exactly. People are getting shot interacting with Police in less stressful situations. Don't be an idiot and taunt the Police State, you could end up paying a lot more than $160 federal reserve notes�
May 24, 2015
BoerumHill Is this common? Has anyone else had this experience?�
May 24, 2015
SeminoleFSU This�
May 24, 2015
chriSharek I thought there was only a limit against a specific velocity (speed limit) not acceleration!
- - - Updated - - -
As I've ordered the 85D, I was keeping it in Sport mode (NOT the INSANE) mode. I did floor it though. He was so pissed when he came up to my window. It took every ounce of control in my body to not laugh.�
May 24, 2015
AB4EJ Do you also provoke rattlesnakes?�
May 24, 2015
chriSharek Yeah . . . I'm so very lucky.
- - - Updated - - -
Why would buy these cars and not use them! Come on!?
- - - Updated - - -
And when you drive your car slowly, I feel THAT reflects poorly on other Tesla owner/drivers (LIKE ME).
To each his own.
- - - Updated - - -
Thanks! I appreciate that! The point of the OP was to share the fact that despite my every effort to be as courteous and polite and provide EVERY ounce of information, he still got it wrong. THAT is called Karma.�
May 24, 2015
LetsGoFast With no wheel spinning and assuming you stayed under control and within your lane the entire time, I suspect he'd have a hard time selling this ticket to the judge.�
May 24, 2015
supratachophobia I fully support both this man's giant lithium balls and his poor judgment. This is what makes America great.�
May 24, 2015
SW2Fiddler Well yeah, the evidence is that upon consulting over the radio, no ticket was issued for unsafe start. DL Missing was all the deputy had. (Maybe a lil' ego bruise?)�
May 24, 2015
breser You must have perfect reactions then. Even with a fair amount of practice on a road I usually go 55 on I can't floor it up to 55 in my 85D without going over half the time.�
May 24, 2015
Johan Related story of mine:
When my car was quite new I took it to a car wash and washed it by hand. Took a detour on the way home, to get the moisture off the brakes. It was late and no traffic so I floored it then put the car in N and did some hard braking. This way coming towards a roundabout. As I enter I see a cop car coming in to the same roundabout from opposite. Looking in the rear mirror I see him circling 360 and taking my exit. I drive carefully and he follows me all the way home. No lights or sirens, just following. Just as I slow down in front of my house he flashes his blue lights and they come up. (No guns - police officers here have guns in a locked compartment in the car but they must request armament from dispatch/command and this is only sometimes approved).
"Do you know why I pulled you over?"
"Yes officer, I accelerated a bit quickly before but I don't think I went too fast (I was doing at least twice the speed limit).
"You were going way too fast but I was unable to measure your speed. Your fine would have been in excess of 5000 NOK ($800)"
I explained about drying my brakes after the wash and apologizing at the same time. He seemed uninterested.
"Are you married?" He asks
"Uhm... Yes I am". Where is he going with this???
"Promise me you'll buy your wife a nice gift worth what the fine would have been. Drive safely. Good night"
Whew.
I did by my wife a nice wallet the next week when I was traveling�
May 24, 2015
vvanders I'm sorry but I'm with caddieo here, what did you expect would happen when you floored it infront of a cop? If you're looking for support in driving like a hooligan I don't think you'll find it from the large majority of TMC drivers.�
May 24, 2015
chriSharek That's how I felt too. Very subjective. No "burn-out" which is what the law actually says. He was just pissy because he lost - well, got his @$$ handed to him, actually.
It's a good thing I'm "only" getting the 85D.�
May 24, 2015
ecarfan Wow, the police in Drammen, Norway, are very reasonable and courteous. Yet another reason why I like Norway.�
May 24, 2015
sorka In CA, you would have been cited for "exhibition of speed" CVC 23109. I assume each state has their own equivalent. What probably factored into you not getting a ticket is that the MS made no tire noise or engine noise and probably confused the cop or at least didn't piss him off like if you'd been in a Hellcat doing the same thing in which case you'd been hauled off to jail.
But seriously, you did this next to a cop? Did you think it wouldn't piss him off? If it was next to me and I could have pulled you over, I would have made up all kinds of crap and thrown the book at you.
It's too bad there's no such thing as a ticket for arrogant stupidity which is what you should have actually been cited for.�
May 24, 2015
chriSharek That is hilarious! ROFL!�
May 24, 2015
sorka Yea, because accelerating to 45 in 2.8 seconds would have pissed him off less than 2.0 seconds�
May 24, 2015
AmpedRealtor Police officers don't get pissy because another car can out-accelerate them. Police officers get pissy when people break the law. It seems it was your ass that was handed back to you in the end.�
May 24, 2015
S4WRXTTCS I think you win the award for doing what we've all thought about doing, but either knew better or were too nervous to do.
So congrats.
It's also additional proof that tickets should be proportional to income. That way the people with more clout can feel the pain of all the laws we have equally. The display of speed/unsafe-acceleration is meant to curb street racing. It's meant to crack down on people "showing off". It's also meant to prevent accidents at lights because people routinely run red lights after they've switched. So you have to give a bit of a buffer and slowly accelerate and then punch it.
I got pulled over years, and years ago for a display of speed and I was driving completely normal. Sure I wouldn't have done that had I seen the SUV cop behind me, but I didn't. I had an Audi S4 that had biturbo's and I was addicted to hearing them spool up. It was also on a 55mph highway (well okay 45mph, but then +5/+10 buffer before cops will bother with you).
I didn't feel it was unsafe, but I was 20 something at the time so pretty much nothing felt unsafe.
I don't feel as if it's a good law because enforcement various wildly. The OP didn't get a ticket for it, and I didn't get a ticket for it. I do know in other forums people do get tickets for it.
This law also fails to recognize improvements in technology. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if an 85D or P85D pulled away from a stop under TACC control at roughly the same rate of acceleration as I was doing with a 2000 Audi S4 when I got pulled over.�
May 24, 2015
chriSharek That's funny too! A ticket for "arrogant stupidity". I love it. I haven't gotten a ticket in years. Just the fact that he pulled me over was hilarious. Too much fun.
Here's the selfie I took while pulled over!
- - - Updated - - -
Outside the US, the police are respectable, reasonable, level-headed, and approachable. I'll NOT say what I'm thinking about how they are here . . . cs�
May 24, 2015
breser CVC 23109 also let's them immediately seize the vehicle and keep it for up to 30 days.
Though in this case they'd release the car to Tesla immediately because of the following
�
May 24, 2015
chriSharek Did anyone actually read the post? I didn't get the ticket. The deputy was so ignorant that he wrote it for the wrong guy!
Although I could probably walk away from this without doing a thing, I will be rectifying it on Tuesday and paying my $10 administrative fee.�
May 24, 2015
dsm363 Glad you got away with it but could have been a very expensive lesson.�
May 24, 2015
AMPd Exhibition of speed, is a no-no
regardless if it's only up to the speed limit�
May 24, 2015
Yggdrasill "Exhibition of speed" sounds like an offense you would find here in Norway. Seems well aligned with the Law of Jante, which is a side of our culture here, sadly.
But luckily there's no punishment for an "exhibition of speed". Instead reckless driving is punished harshly, as well as speeding. Mere acceleration doesn't break any law.
Still, I probably wouldn't floor it if a cop car was three feet away.�
May 24, 2015
Gra55h0pper Congrats? I wonder how many "get out of jail free cards" you were blessed with in your life. Suggest to use them sparingly. I guess lesson-learned is that next time you decide to provoke cops for the mere fun of it ... carry your driver's license!�
May 24, 2015
Electricfan You couldn't walk away from it without a guilty conscience. If you have one. Looks like you might, since you repeated twice you would not let the poor innocent victim suffer for your stupidity. I pulled in front of a truck the other night, and once we were both off the highway I saw it was a sheriff. So, not saying I don't do stupid things also, but its sure easier to see them when other people do them. But the people on this forum are a little self-righteous for my taste, by and large. You definitely picked the wrong forum to share a "I pissed off a cop" story. Although I guess you know that now! LOL!
I think its going to be harder than you think to straighten out the mess you made (oh, I get from your comments that you blame the cop who ticketed the wrong guy, but its your mess, like it or not). I hope you stick with it and make sure the innocent guy is cleared.
Hmmm. I guess I find myself on the side of the self-righteous on this one.�
May 24, 2015
igotzzoom Other than the high price, I actually think the Model S would make a good police car. I'm surprised the Fremont PD doesn't have at least one token one with a D.A.R.E. wrap on it to take to schools & community events. :smile:�
May 24, 2015
Yggdrasill I agree, though the Model X would be even better.�
May 24, 2015
Alysashley79 I hate to say this because I'm a speed demon in my S. But. THIS is why people like me have gotten pulled over twice for "speeding" and gotten a very high ticket like $615 last time and I was behind a logging truck going 60mph. (And the speed limit was 60mph) He said at least five times "well if you didn't drive one of these fast cars"�
May 24, 2015
aronth5 Are we sure about that? Posting on a public forum could have unintended consequences:smile:�
May 24, 2015
bonnie It appears most people were only asking 'why would you deliberately bait a cop?' & no lecturing about speed. Nothing self-righteous about that. Most of us DO enjoy the acceleration of our cars (I've gone through far too many rear tires on my Roadster as a result) ... but try to enjoy that benefit without deliberately getting pulled over. Boggles the mind.
My thought exactly. Photo, confession, AND name.�
May 24, 2015
ddimit Are you 18? You deserved to have to book thrown at you. You got off light, count your blessings and grow up a bit.�
May 24, 2015
Wshowell Jerk move:
1. To do it
2. To post it
3. To brag about it
4. To defend 1-3�
May 24, 2015
AlMc I just put this on my list of why we need improvements in the 'valet mode'.�
May 24, 2015
DFibRL8R Yeah, I thinks it's strange that Tesla limits top speed in their loaners but not acceleration.�
May 24, 2015
Larry Chanin Hi Chris,
Well, you now hold the club record.
Prior to this episode the previous record was to get a warning ticket within 17 hours of having the car delivered.
Getting a ticket 3 months BEFORE getting the car is going to be a hard record to beat.
Larry�
May 24, 2015
yobigd20 This thread is getting much more attention than it deserves.�
May 24, 2015
deonb As far as I understand, exhibition of speed comes into play when the driver is one-of:
a) Engaged in a race against another vehicle, or against a clock/timer - not the case here
b) Doing it to impress or show off to someone - hard to argue that it's the case here
Some states also add:
c) Driving a vehicle to or beyond its limit - the car wasn't even on insane mode, which is provable from logs, nor did the wheels slip
So the cop may have written a ticket, but I'm not sure if it would be able to stand up in a court.
I kind'a wish one of these would make it to court though - would be interesting to see a case of these "fast" starts that are still way under the car's real power. "Yes judge, I know I was driving like Michael Schumacher in a souped up Ferrari F40.... but that only means I was driving conservatively to increase my mileage!"�
May 24, 2015
Canuck Ha! The same thing happened to me. I was driving home about 1:00am from my cabin and just came off the highway onto a road by a small airport (so no cross streets) and I was doing about 100km/hr in a 60 zone when pulled over. I'm always polite to cops and I apologized and explained that I just came off the highway and lost perspective of the speed. Plus I said that it wasn't unsafe since there were no crossroads or driveways. He told me to wait, went back his car, wrote out the entire ticket, then wrote "WARNING" across it and gave me both copies only if I agreed to take my wife out for dinner with the money I saved. I happily agreed.
Then the next weekend when we were driving that same stretch of road my wife joked that she hadn't got her dinner yet and if she saw the cop she would tell him to give me that ticket!�
May 24, 2015
breser I looked at the California law. Exhibition of speed is a separate offense under the same law from racing against a vehicle or a clock.
In other parts of the law it points at 23109(c) as the definition of what exhibition of speed means for example:
But I can't find anywhere they actually define what the heck an exhibition of speed actually is in the law.
Searching for Exhibition of Speed you can find legal sites that define it like this one:
So it seems that it's much broader that what you're suggesting.�
May 24, 2015
Cyclone In one of the Model S Pictures threads, a forum member posted photos of his Model S with covert blue siren lights on it. No clue whether the PD/Sheriff's office owns his or he simply had lights installed on his personal vehicle for official duty.�
May 24, 2015
brucet999 Not to worry, valet mode limits the car to 80kW of power; 0-60 in something like 8 seconds or some such boring time.
An in-depth look at Teslas new Valet Mode for the Model S�
May 24, 2015
MartinAustin My P85 is the first car I've had that was able to jerk away from the traffic light with alarming speed. I'm usually able to hassle the oncoming cars that think they are "squeezing through the yellow." Hardly anyone actually accelerates as fast as a Tesla does, and when I see people squeezing through the yellow, they're still in the intersection finishing up their business when their oncoming traffic (including me) gets to see a green light. However, I don't floor it in town, because generally, I'm putting myself at some level of risk due to not being able to survey the entire intersection for cars that may be doing a full-on "running of the red." Generally if you wait a few tenths of a second you are going to be able to do a much better survey of the situation before proceeding. This also happens to be the same type of acceleration that ICE cars do, because even when their drivers are going as fast as they can, they don't really move off that quickly.
I have been known to floor it from the traffic light when I'm in the middle of nowhere, or, I can see all the lanes leading into the intersection, and they're clear. Other drivers are the "random unknown" that you have to take into consideration.
So if you floored your P85D at a greenlight, perhaps you failed to exercise due diligence as a defensive driver - i.e. making sure the intersection was completely safe to enter - since someone else might have been running it and you'd be crashing into them.
That said, thanks for being so self-effacing that you still posted your story, as it was certainly fun to read�
May 24, 2015
brucet999 At least until criminals learn that all they have to do is flee at 90 mph until the cops run out of battery.�
May 24, 2015
breser I know you've got a smiley on there but... ICE vehicles have their limitations on range as well. Law enforcement doesn't just have one vehicle to give chase with. If you're going 90 mph and running the cop out of fuel you've probably crossed into other jurisdictions, who will have more vehicles.�
May 24, 2015
deonb
But that's exactly what I said
�
May 24, 2015
breser I read your a) and b) as being anded together, but looking back that's not what you meant. At least in California's law your a) isn't an Exhibition of Speed but rather a Speed Contest. Same penalties but different charge so I realize this is a rather semantic difference.�
May 24, 2015
brianman Actually, I think this is overstating it. I think most officers get pissy when you are doing something dangerous, unsafe, etc. The distinction: breaking the letter of the law (going 1 over the speed limit) doesn't really upset an officer, but going 75 in a 25mph zone is something different entirely.
Similarly, the officer had a lane restriction situation imminent and you made it "interesting". I've had similar situations with BMWs and such in the lane next to me with traffic blocking their lane. Could I make them slam on the brakes? Sure. But I don't -- it's unsafe for them, or me, or both, in the end.�
May 24, 2015
Scotty I was driving my pickup truck with a full size ARO cap on it (and California License plating) through South Carolina a dozen years ago, when I came up on a South Carolina State Trooper driving 5 mph below the limit. I had my truck on cruise control on exactly the speed limit, so slowed down, in case there was road conditions, upcoming accident scene, etc.... After following behind him for a couple of miles, I hit cruise resume, passed him, and pulled in ahead of him. He then turned on his lights, and pulled me over. He stated that he was pulling me over for not signalling my lane change ahead of him, but he would not be citing me. I ALWAYS signal lane changes. He then asked if I was driving from California, on I-75, and would I consent to opening up my bed cap, for no particular reason. Yup, that's what he said.
I later did some checking, and found numerous instances that this maneuver was performed on out-of-state drivers without a real probable cause, or to avoid the so-called profiling allegations, particularly on the I-75 corridor.
So, I NEVER speed up (even to the posted speed limit) to pass a pokey law enforcement vehicle I also have to say 'Hooray for GoPro and smartphones'.
Scotty�
May 24, 2015
Phil K It's about doing the right thing and making the right decision, not necessarily about legality.
Like crossing a road. The driver should stop at the red light but that doesn't mean you can just walk without looking when the pedestrian crossing light turns green. The driver would lose in court, but you lose your life.�
May 24, 2015
JRP3 I appreciate the urge to challenge authority on occasion.�
May 24, 2015
CalDreamin Sounds like the OP violated Florida 316.191, a misdemeanor. The penalty includes a fine of $500-1000 and revoking the person's drivers license for 1 year.�
May 24, 2015
cwerdna Yep... when I lived in WA, when a coworker (w/a pretty powerful car) gunned it multiple times, I mentioned that coworker was in danger of getting ticketed. My coworkers laughed and didn't think that was possible.
I then cited that example where I had gotten pulled over in California many years ago from "taking off too fast" from a stop a sign. I didn't know a cop was around, but knew that cops often waited near there, watching for people not making complete stops.
What was I driving? A white 1993 Dodge Caravan (minivan) w/142 hp 3.0L Mitsubishi V6 engine and (IIRC) 3-speed transmission (not the beleaguered 4-speed Ultradrive). That's not exactly a muscle car even back then, let alone now.
Fortunately, the cop let me off.
Years later, I'd became aware of that CVC.�
May 24, 2015
caddieo Ditto for me on a 2-lane road where I would actually be overtaking him. On the multilane interstates, however, I will do it as long as I am in the middle of a pack of cars doing the same thing.�
May 24, 2015
breser Washington doesn't have a exhibition of speed law like California does.
We have the following laws.
Due care (catch-all for anything imprudent, I put .400 here because the relevance here is mostly the similar due care language):
RCW 46.61.445: Due care required.
RCW 46.61.400: Basic rule and maximum limits.
Racing is Reckless Driving (with the weirdest wording I've ever seen, I really don't quite get the meaning of this):
RCW 46.61.530: Racing of vehicles on highways — Reckless driving — Exception.
Advertising of unlawful speed (which is somewhat amusing to me as well):
RCW 46.61.535: Advertising of unlawful speed — Reckless driving.
There used to be an excessive revving law for state parks that was an Admistrative Code but was repealed in 2009. But I suspect that didn't apply to your situation.
I imagine that you might get a due care ticket which is a $42 ticket for something like what the OP posted. Doubt you'd get a ticket for revving an engine at all here. Of course there may be local ordinances that are more restrictive.�
May 24, 2015
S4WRXTTCS I'm a little confused.
Where in what I wrote did I say you got a ticket?
No, you got a warning. I don't care about the ticket he wrote for the wrong guy because that wasn't what you were pulled over for.�
May 24, 2015
Khatsalano ... when you own a Tesla, you become one of our ambassadors.
Why would you do this?�
May 24, 2015
tga aka, "Can't outrun a Motorola"�
May 24, 2015
S4WRXTTCS Now that I think about it I don't know a single person who has gotten pulled over for this ever getting a ticket for it.
I hope I never get pulled over for this again, but if I ever do I'm going to be sure to ask him about what ordinance it is specifically. I checked all the RCW'd and I don't see it on any of them.
I think the cop just made up the whole bit about "excessive acceleration" when I got pulled over years and year ago for it.�
May 24, 2015
richkae Take it to a racetrack, auto cross, or drag strip.
There is no other responsible way to get your money's worth.
I don't understand anyone who buys a powerful sports car and doesn't do that.�
May 24, 2015
Mr X
Yes you can. I do it all the time and there is nothing unsafe about it.
I've taken off on cops to the speed limit and none have ever pulled me over.
0 to the speed limit is legal everyday fun.
Funny story, the cop clearly is a d*ck!�
May 24, 2015
sorka Yup. I do the same thing.....................in my Prius. If I'd done that next to a cop in my P85D, they'd pretty much have to pull you over.�
May 24, 2015
Andyw2100 You can somewhat legitimately criticize the OPs actions, and the possible ramifications for the other car, and even what could have happened if the other car had hypothetically contained a family with kids. But dragging the "innocent bystander" who wound up with the ticket into this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. There is no way the OP could have foreseen someone else, with a similar name, getting a ticket as a result of his actions. Criticizing him for that, by writing, "I'd also be pretty pissed to be the innocent bystander with a false ticket in my name" is just silly.�
May 24, 2015
stopcrazypp You obviously got lucky. You can be cited under 23109(c) for "exhibition of speed". Exhibition of speed refers to acceleration at a rate that is dangerous or unsafe (regardless of speed limit).
More details posted by others:
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/47791-Cops-don-t-like-losing-to-a-Model-S!/page6?p=1018559&viewfull=1#post1018559�
May 24, 2015
cmu5p youre right. not op's fault. I'd be pretty pissed at THE COP.
But for OP to seem pleased that he "didn't get the ticket" and some poor unknowing stranger did (could be me, could be you) - funny for him. Wouldn't have been funny for said stranger. Good OP can redeem himself by correcting the error.�
May 24, 2015
Andyw2100 OK, I see.
As for the OP being pleased that he didn't get the ticket, I could be wrong, but I didn't read it that way. I read it as him poking more fun at the cop, who he was annoyed at, for getting it wrong. Below is what he wrote. He even refers to the guy as "some poor guy."
�
May 24, 2015
wallet.dat picardfacepalm.jpg�
May 24, 2015
ryanjm It's a shame that such a beautiful car is going to be wasted on the dummy OP.
Worse, he's clearly learned nothing, and only seems to revel in the attention he's getting in this thread (which I am now contributing to, I realize).
Enjoy your new car, OP. Sigh...�
May 25, 2015
cwerdna Yep, and as I posted at Cops don't like losing to a Model S! - Page 8 I've been pulled over in CA for "accelerating too quickly" from a stop sign in a 142 hp V6 totally stock inside and out 1993 Dodge Caravan.�
May 25, 2015
Yggdrasill With the exhibition of speed definition: "VC 23109(c) is commonly referred to as �Exhibition of Speed.� To prove this charge, the prosecutor must prove that you drove a motor vehicle, and while you were driving you accelerated or drove at a rate of speed that was dangerous and unsafe, in order to show off or make an impression on someone else", I would think the threshhold for getting a ticket in a Model S shuld be fairly high.
When is acceleration dangerous? It's certainly not dangerous when coming out of a light, in a straight line, with no tire spin and no drama. Which is what happens *every* time with a Model S, even in insane mode. Now if you yank the traction control fuse or something, sure, ticket away. I'm sure many people have gotten tickets they should have challenged in court.
Personally, I use every horsepower available to me when accelerating. Currently that's not extremely much (90 hp I think), yet I still pull away from pretty much all other cars at the lights. When I get my Tesla, they will be *gone*.�
May 25, 2015
kennybobby That's a good find on the FL statute that covers racing on highways-- (2) a person may not: Drive any motor vehicle, including any motorcycle, in any race, speed competition or contest, drag race or acceleration contest, test of physical endurance, or exhibition of speed or acceleration or for the purpose of making a speed record on any highway, roadway, or parking lot;
And if you do it again they will take your toy away:
Any motor vehicle used in violation of subsection (2) by any person within 5 years after the date of a prior conviction of that person for a violation under subsection (2) may be seized and forfeited as provided by the Florida Contraband Forfeiture Act. This subsection shall only be applicable if the owner of the motor vehicle is the person charged with violating subsection (2).
Plus the law is pretty rough on spectators or passengers in a vehicle that is racing too--beware selfy-video-posters...�
May 25, 2015
JRP3 I do hope that the self righteous commenters here have never exceeded the speed limit on public roads or accelerated faster than necessary, since that would be rather hypocritical. I can fairly certainly say that we've all broken laws on public streets, this guy just happened to get caught, and posted about it. And quite frankly quickly accelerating up to the speed limit is probably less dangerous to others than exceeding the speed limit, which people do all the time.�
May 25, 2015
bonnie I think, for the most part, that posters are just a bit gobsmacked that the OP would choose to bait a cop in the way he did. And then, of course, as this forum does ... it has devolved into what exactly he could be cited for, specific laws and interpretation. Because that's what we *do*.
- - - Updated - - -
... and JRP3, you know you're on my list of 'forum members I like'
-drops mic-�
May 25, 2015
JRP3 -picks up mic- So pointing out self righteous behavior is self righteous? -places mic down carefully so as not to damage it-
(...and I like you too :smile�
May 25, 2015
dsm363 Did it have the fake wood trim racing stripe on the side? Probably made it look quicker than it is�
May 25, 2015
chriSharek Yeah. All good. I'll head downtown tomorrow to try to straighten this out. Why else would I be holding a ticket TO someone else and WANT to pay it if I wasn't telling the truth - I hope the courthouse people understand that.
- - - Updated - - -
I'm 43 but act 18 sometimes I suppose. Life is too short. WAY too short - that's also why I ordered my MS Saturday!
- - - Updated - - -
the loaners aren't in valet mode, so I'm not sure what your question/concern is. Acceleration is clearly not governed for the loaners although the max speed is limited to 80.
- - - Updated - - -
AMEN!�
May 25, 2015
dsm363 Mod note: few posts moved to snippiness�
May 25, 2015
chriSharek Either you or the cop was incorrect, because he cited a $160 ticket for the "unsafe start".
- - - Updated - - -
And I'm sorry if I created a thread that didn't belong. I had just ordered my MS, got a loaner for the first time, enjoyed the heck out of it (maybe too much), and thought the story was worth sharing. Sorry to create a mess of a thread if so. cs
- - - Updated - - -
Dude, even the cop told me to take it somewhere off the beaten path if i wanted to test the car out. Get off the soapbox.
- - - Updated - - -
Right. The fact that the cop got it wrong after I spelled out my name, address, date of birth, and everything is just unfathomable! I am heading down to the courthouse tomorrow to take care of the ticket - no doubt. Just amazing that the cop was that ignorant or incompetent that he couldn't find my record. I suppose this is why we're supposed to carry our licenses at all times.
As far as the lane ending for the cop - it's about a mile away. Us locals know that lane ends down the road. There was plenty of road for him to merge. As a matter of fact, he put his lights on and pulled me over before we were even to that merge area of the roadway. So, I was absolutely not being a jerk about not "letting him in" - again, I was going the speed limit of 45 and he could have easily passed me and merged over. He just wanted to flex his muscles because his doors were completely blown off by a car that doesn't use a drop of gas. That's all.�
May 25, 2015
ecarfan That is definitely not "all". The officer had no intention of racing you or making any attempt to see which which car was quicker off the line. Police don't do that. You are imagining that scenario. You were cited for violating a traffic law. Which based on your own description you clearly did.�
May 25, 2015
Kandiru OP, this reminds me of my days as a fresh wetback in MA. A friend would give me his car to drive
as long as I took him to work and back. He was in a senior position and always behind schedule so
he told me that the for the BMW 7-series the law said yellow is equal to green. Cop pulled me over
on red and gave me a ticket using my Bulgarian DL while he tried to roughly latinize the
cyrillic characters. After he left we laughed until we saw double, then tore it up.
Needless to say I always stop if I see the yellow light come since then, although I may need surgery
on my right foot, it gets heavier all the time�
May 25, 2015
markb1 He didn't just happen to get caught. He intentionally did it in front of a cop.�
May 25, 2015
Ugliest1 This reminds me of the thread someone started a year or so ago about the Tesla Dilemma: do I boot it through the yellow to make the light, or do I stop to get the fun of the 0-to-X acceleration?�
May 25, 2015
cpa Slightly digressing here: I don't know the traffic citation environment in Florida, but here in California, it SEEMS that most traffic violations are written for speeding and cell phone/texting/seatbelt violations. (I have not received a ticket in 27 years.) Running red lights, failure to stop, unsafe lane changes, etc. do not appear high of the list of citeable offenses any more. I theorize as follows: The legislature has not raised the statutory fines for traffic violations in over 40 years. (Most base fines are $35.) However, the legislature created a judicial committee that meets periodically to assess add-on penalties, court costs, court construction repayment, appearance fees, etc. Speeding tickets are around $350-$500 depending on jurisdiction, but the basic fine is still about $35.
When fines were cheap, most violators did not bother to fight the ticket; they just ponied up the cash or went to traffic school. As a result the citing officer rarely had to kill a whole day in court. I have been told that the appearance dates are generally on the officer's day off, or before his shift, so are overtime hours. In any event, speeding and the cell phone/seatbelt violations are EASY for the officer to prove if the driver decides to fight the citation, as the officer has hard evidence with his radar gun or easily-obtainable cell phone records. However, many traffic violations are quite subjective as has been pointed out above. Officer: "You are exhibiting unsafe acceleration." Driver: "But officer I never exceeded the speed limit." These are much harder for the citing officer to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt," so perhaps the traffic officers are less likely to cite as they wind up spending wasted time in court that results in dismissal of the citation. They would much rather have a 95% success rate on traffic violations than a 40% success rate. Hence, warnings are issued to make drivers think twice for a day or two.
But, I am not a cop, and I could easily be wrong!�
May 25, 2015
stopcrazypp I think the main factor is because it's very rare situation that someone tries to out accelerate a cop. So probably most cops have little to no experience writing such tickets (the stature is sufficiently vague that it's hard to tell when it is citeable; I think the only obvious case is if you leave tire marks on the pavement or chirp your tires). That combined with what you mentioned (other violations are much easier to prove) means most cops probably don't bother to write such a ticket.�
May 25, 2015
thegruf slightly reluctantly joining this thread of entirely predicatable counterpoints, however
Assuming T/C on and no loss of traction, can somebody please define at what rate of acceleration does this "unsafe start" law apply?
I guess the inevitable answer is not faster than the police cruiser next to you, but is that really a basis for sound law?�
May 25, 2015
chriSharek thegruf, I agree with you completely. I didn't chirp the tires, leave a mark, or wave at his as I left him in the dust. I was simply enjoying the car for what it is. Otherwise, why would we (Tesla or anyone other manufacturer) make a car that can go fast?
- - - Updated - - -
And what law was that, ecarfan? I accelerated too quickly? Is that the law? And "too quickly" according to whom? COMPLETELY subjective.
The law I broke and was given a ticket for (even though it was written out to the wrong person) was that I didn't have my license with me. Now, that I understand. This "unsafe start" is absolutely bogus and everyone here knows it.�
May 25, 2015
stopcrazypp The law is sufficiently vague to give the cop and judge a lot of leeway in determining this. Obviously any loss of traction can be used against you (although there are reasonable causes for losing traction unrelated to acceleration). However, yes, out accelerating the car next to you (esp. by a large margin if you are flooring it) can be the basis for such an infraction. There is no specific rate of acceleration defined in any of these laws, but accelerating at a rate similar or quicker than most supercars, I think most officers and judges can say that is unsafe acceleration on public roads.
And I think intent matters too. If you have good reason to use lots of acceleration (for example to avoid a hazard on the road) I don't think such a citation would stick. If the only apparently reason to do so is to show off, then that's obviously a different case.
The other infraction can be for a speed contest (and that applies regardless of speed limit also). So the impression that you are safe just because you stay below the speed limit is obviously not true.�
May 25, 2015
thegruf I'm with you on most of this.
Racing/competitive driving for sure
But how the heck do you define how much acceleration you can apply 50%/75%/95%?
Speed can be measured, competitive/bad driving can be video'd, there are no widely used enforcement tools for acceleration to my knowledge.
To me this seems poor law, I suspect it was primarily intended at drivers buring rubber off the line, and is now being apparently applied dependent totally on "judgement" and is unquantifiiable in any rational way.
This isn't supporting bad driving, but I do get irritated at poorly conceived laws and the sense of unfairness and loss of respect for enforcement they generate (we have a good few of these in the UK too).�
May 25, 2015
Lerxt You are lucky he didn't shoot you on the spot! This seems to be the season for it in the U.S....
It would seem to me that the Sherriff would be the least qualified to determine whether the acceleration was unsafe.�
May 25, 2015
cwerdna Nope. The "wood" on the side were for earlier generations, apparently (per Dodge Caravan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).�
May 25, 2015
markb1 Do you have a reference to a case where cell phone records were pulled for a simple infraction? If there's a more serious charge, especially a felony charge, sure. But traffic infractions in California go to traffic court, where the cases are typically not heard by judges. Very little preparation is put into these cases. I doubt anyone would go to the trouble of getting a warrant for cell records in this situation.�
May 25, 2015
JRP3 I think if one were to actually be cited for unsafe acceleration it would be reasonable in court to ask what your recorded rate of acceleration actually was and what rate of acceleration is allowed by law. Since I suspect no value would exist for either, and assuming no other evidence available, the ticket would likely be thrown out.�
May 25, 2015
breser In most states the only time these sorts of wishy washy moving violations are handed out is as a plea deal for a DUI stop. In California they use Exhibition of Speed. Up here in Washington, Due Care.�
May 25, 2015
Xenoilphobe Revenue for the city - -just another BS tax...�
May 26, 2015
chriSharek So I went downtown to the courthouse today to pay the other guy's fine and was told I couldn't. I had to go to the Sheriff's Office to get it corrected first.
I walked down to the Sheriff's Office. The officer who wrote it has to change it. He doesn't work until tomorrow, so I have to wait.
I did ask the clerk if I was to walk away if this would go against someone else's record and she did confirm.
So, for all you "you shouldn't have done that" posters in the thread, know (1) that I'm trying to do the right thing and (2) I'm having to waste my time tracking down the idiot cop's mistake. Thought you all might appreciate that.�
May 26, 2015
MartinAustin Consider it appreciated�
May 26, 2015
LetsGoFast This is why I said that the case will be kicked by the judge without evidence of loss of control, weaving or tire spinning. Merely accelerating quickly is not going to be held to be "unsafe" in any jurisdiction.
This is not a remotely permissable definition of "safety." If the traffic code being cited is Florida 316.154 (the only reference to "start" in the traffic code for Florida), you only have to start the car in a situation with "reasonable safety" which is even more permissive than simply "safety." Furthermore, the statute refers to a parked vehicle, so any citation for acceleration from a traffic light might fail on that basis as well.
It would be an even harder sell on the drag racing section cited earlier, which is so poorly written with regard to exhibition of speed compared to traffic code elsewhere that I seriously doubt anyone could be convicted without some kind of multi-car contest.�
May 26, 2015
GreenT No ... I doubt anyone appreciates it ... you've already dug yourself a VERY DEEP HOLE and now you choose to further insult the cop who was doing his job!
What you should have said was - the cop whose action, in your opinion, was idiotic.
And to what another person here contributed ... you are supposed to be setting an example, being an ambassador ...
I suggest you lay low, VERY low, for a months as your reputation here is likely very tarnished. (Not that the real world cares ... this is only TMC.) But, please, if you meet people at SuperChargers, don't tell this story ...
If reputation points were still awarded, I'd hate to see the shade of red you would have earned.�
May 26, 2015
chriSharek If I was trying to brag or be a jerk, I would walk away from this entire situation - and because of the cop's incompetence, I would walk free and clear. HOWEVER, I AM trying to do the right thing and get it fixed, regardless of the County's inability to correct THEIR problem.
And lastly, GreenT, I don't know anything about reputation points. I haven't a clue - I've only been here since February. If I'm getting dinged for being honest, then so be it. I can't apologize for being honest.�
May 26, 2015
bonnie Even if the ticket is thrown out, it appears that the "idiot cop" you baited has extracted his justice and you are paying a price.
Still, for the life of me, can't figure out why you'd choose to take on a cop. Just ... no.�
May 26, 2015
cmu5p bonnie, you are my hero. I want to be you when I grow up.�
Không có nhận xét nào:
Đăng nhận xét