Chủ Nhật, 1 tháng 1, 2017

Audio: Testing audio formats part 1

  • Jul 3, 2012
    brianman
    I was considering bringing a USB key with me for the Amped event. Any of the audiophiles out there care to suggest which formats to test and recommend some quick and free tools that will produce most or all of the suggested formats?
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  • Jul 3, 2012
    Tommy
    I use Max
    Max from sbooth.org

    and Audacity
    Audacity: Free Audio Editor and Recorder

    on my mac, both are free source.

    Flac or wav files if you're an audiophile; I would be surprised if Tesla has enough space for these to properly demonstrate their potential.
    �
  • Jul 3, 2012
    brianman
    I should have mentioned: My house is free of Apple hardware at the moment. I'll need x86, x64 or Hyper-V-compatible VM.

    I'm not looking to evaluate potential/quality so much as "will it decode and play the format at all."

    For example, I'm betting WMV (with any internal codec) is a no-go.
    �
  • Jul 3, 2012
    Tommy
    Here's where the window version of Audacity is: Audacity: Download
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  • Jul 3, 2012
    ElSupreme
    Might as well test WMA lossless! I have all my music in that format.
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  • Jul 3, 2012
    Larry Chanin
    I was told by a TMC member that the Model S does not support Flac. I believe he spoke to a Tesla representative. Checking this would be useful.

    Larry
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  • Jul 3, 2012
    Todd Burch
    I expect that uncompressed/PCM formats (like .WAV) are not supported.

    Also, I expect that the audio formats that lean more toward the Apple side (such as AAC) are more likely than the Microsoft side (such as WMA). In fact I think someone mentioned that AAC is or will be supported.
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  • Jul 3, 2012
    shokunin
    As stated on the Tesla Model S specs page:

    200 watt, seven speaker stereo system with AM/FM/HD radio. Supports MP3, AAC, and MP4 music formats. System includes four speakers, two tweeters and one center channel speaker. Flash memory storage for up to 500 songs.

    I would be surprised if the stereo could not handle uncompressed .wav. As the system would have to uncompress the formats internally to PCM in order to play the music anyways. Problem with .wav and PCM formats is that they lack tagging capabilties that other formats have. I'm wondering if it could handle anything higher than redbook 44.1/16bits, then again with the lossy compression, it's probably not worth it...
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  • Jul 3, 2012
    kevincwelch
    I think a reasonable question would be whether it will decode music downloaded from the iTunes store, which is AAC format, but with DRM. For obvious reasons, many players will be incapable of decoding these AAC files. (There are commercial ways around that.) I'm not sure how many people actually have their music encoded in AAC format that isn't from Apple.

    Personally, I have mp3 and flac. Shame flac isn't supported...
    �
  • Jul 3, 2012
    SByer
    Media Monkey can reflect whole trees into other formats and keep them sync'ed, if it comes to that.

    (Says the guy that still has to re-rip his collection into FLAC).
    �
  • Jul 3, 2012
    Warrenbonz
    I was told by a Tesla employee that although WAV is not listed on thier website in the Model S specs as supported that it is in fact supported. This is after the Tesla employee checked with corporate. I was also told FLAC is not supported. (BTW, I'm the TMC member Larry referenced above :) )
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  • Jul 3, 2012
    Bound466
    I know Tesla said they wouldn't support FLAC, but come-on Tesla.. You will have the quietest cabin in a premium sedan class. Why only WAV???

    Brianman, if you have a FLAC file, and time to test it, it would be interesting to test it none-the-less.
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  • Jul 3, 2012
    gmontem
    I just sent an e-mail to Tesla Motors requesting for FLAC support. If you guys seriously want FLAC, I recommend you do the same.
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  • Jul 3, 2012
    brianman
    At Home With Elon Musk: The (Soon-to-Be) Bachelor Billionaire - Forbes
    Sounds like Pink Floyd might be a good choice for source material. I'll grab one of the tracks from Dark Side of the Moon.
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  • Jul 3, 2012
    rbergquist
    + 1 on FLAC. Or worst case an app that can handle it.
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  • Jul 3, 2012
    ahimberg
    I just want good bluetooth a2dp support, everything i listen to is on my phone and for audiobooks I only want one current play position.

    Has anyone seen/tried the bluetooth audio support?
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  • Jul 3, 2012
    Odenator
    I don't know, but having an on board flash drive for mp3's seems to be so antiquated. Early 2000 VW's had an optional hard drive where the old multi-disc CD changer were located. Seems like a waste to me. I have all my music (more than 500) on my iPhone. I have no intention of uploading only some of my songs to its limited storage capacity. Just put in a 30 pin connector (like in the Roadster) or an option to connect any smart phone and leave that choice to the consumer. I know that there will be bluetooth for streaming audio but installing flash memory looks to me like an added expense that Tesla didn't need to include. It feels like if Apple kept 3.5 floppy drives in the iMac.
    �
  • Jul 3, 2012
    Odenator
    Oh and to the OP, I like AAC better than mp3 as a format and it is supported by the Model S.
    �
  • Jul 4, 2012
    NigelM
  • Jul 4, 2012
    jerry33
    On a long drive, playing from the car's flash drive means that you don't have to have your phone plugged in to keep it charged. Because a lot of car chargers cause the "charger is incompatible" message intermittently, and also cause the phone's battery to heat up way more than the 120V charger, it seems like a reasonable plan both for convenience and cellphone battery life--both kinds of battery life. (I am so looking forward to not having to plug the phone into the cassette adapter.)
    �
  • Jul 4, 2012
    jcadman22
    +1 for MediaMonkey users - The feature that I most want the Model S to support would be the ability to emulate an iPod. I use the MediaMonkey iTunes plug-in to synch tracks from my tightly organized MM library into iTunes just so I can use the dead simple Apple device synch for all devices. I would love to have the wi-fi synch capability in the car so it would just show up as another device in iTunes when it' on my wi-fi network.
    �
  • Jul 4, 2012
    howabout2
    Presumably the USB ports are out of the way in a fashion that would allow you to essentially permanently plug in a 128 or 256GB USB stick? If so, that's how I plan to compensate for the relatively paltry in-car storage.

    (Frankly I hate it when capacity is measured in the "songs" unit since I have no idea what that means. 500 songs is what exactly? 2.5GB? My MP3-encoded music is roughly 5MB/song.)
    �
  • Jul 4, 2012
    jerry33
    +1 Capacity should be stated in gigabytes or terabytes.
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  • Jul 4, 2012
    ManuVince
    +1

    And I think it is listed in number of songs, because of the very poor data storage capacity the car has (in today's standard where you can buy a 32Gb flash drive for 30$), doesn't look very appealing.
    In the end I don't care much about that. But it really puzzles me... Why so few? It doesn't cost anything...
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  • Jul 4, 2012
    kevincwelch
    I hate it as well.

    When manufacturers do this, they probably calculate it based on encoding of 128 kbps, which any reasonable person would be able to tell the difference between this and CD-quality music. Most of my music is encoded at 192 kbps or 256 kbs, and more recently since space is not an issue so much, 320 kbps.

    Roughly, in 128 kbps, the song is as large as it is in minutes. Roughly. So, a 3:30 song is about about 3.5 Mb. 500 songs at 128 kbps is about 1.75 GB. So, the car probably has about a 2 GB capacity before formatting. At a 320 kpbs encryption rate, a 4 minute song is about 10 Mb. Assuming my rough math is close to accurate, a 2 GB storage device will hold 175 songs with higher encryption.

    For the flac lovers out there, a 4 minute song is about 25 Mb. So, you're gonna fit about 70 songs on there.

    Of course, I stopped doing math about 20 years ago, so I could be completely off...
    �
  • Jul 4, 2012
    jerry33
    My best guess is that it was the specified four years ago when the specs were first made--and the size would have been reasonable--and no one has bothered to update it because they were busy with higher priority items.
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  • Jul 4, 2012
    Andrew Wolfe
    I think it is very likely that the system uses an SDHC card for storage. The limit is 32GB. Moving to SDXC can require a different controller on the processor chip. Tegra 2 did not support it - but at least some versions of Tegra 3 do - so it should be upgradable. I think Tegra 3 was a late-stage upgrade so that could explain it.
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  • Jul 4, 2012
    dsm363
    As long as the upgrade path is relatively easy and cheap, I don't think most people will mind the initial weak storage space.
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  • Jul 4, 2012
    kendallpb
    I've bought non-Apple AACs, and RIP'd all my CDs as AAC. Anyway, FYI Apple hasn't sold DRM'd music for quite some time now, so while folks who've used the iTunes Store for quite some time (like me) have some DRM'd AACs from Apple, that's really a thing of the past. (You can "upgrade" to non-DRM'd + higher quality tracks, not that I'd waste money doing that.)
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  • Jul 4, 2012
    kevincwelch
    Didn't know that, kendallpb.

    I usually buy from either the band itself or from Amazon.
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  • Jul 4, 2012
    brianman
    Ideally one of the various converter apps would have a feature: "convert to set of precanned formats for testing a new device".

    In the absence of that, a set of human recommendations of formats to include (some in the thread are a start) combined with an app that can easily do a bulk export of set of user-specified formats in batch.

    Audacity and MediaMonkey don't seem to have that. I'll try doing a few manually, but batch is more reliable and strongly preferred.
    �
  • Jul 4, 2012
    brianman
    Manually sucks, but it wasn't terribly RSI-inducing. Here are some that I've converted so far...

    MediaMonkey
    1. FLAC0
    2. FLAC6
    3. FLAC8
    4. MP3ABR160
    5. MP3ABR192
    6. MP3ABR256
    7. MP3CBR128
    8. MP3CBR320
    9. MP3VBR160
    10. MP3VBR256
    11. OGG2
    12. OGG5
    13. OGG10
    14. WAV22050M
    15. WAV22050S
    16. WAV44100M
    17. WAV44100S
    18. WAV48000M
    19. WAV48000S
    20. WMA_ABR
    21. WMA_CBR1
    22. WMA_CBR2
    23. WMA_VBR
    24. WMALossless
    25. WMAProABR
    26. WMAProCBR1
    27. WMAProCBR2
    28. WMAProVBR
    29. WMASpeechCBR1

    Audacity
    1. AIFF
    2. GSM_6_10
    3. MP2_160
    4. MP2_192
    5. MP2_256
    6. MP2_320

    Audacity needs some additional downloads or configuring for ffmpeg so I didn't bother with it.

    Any additional formats requested (and tools suggested to produce them)?


    NOTE: I've limited the filenames to alphanumeric 8.3 to avoid potential "sensitivity" in the Tesla file support.

    USB key 1: 4GB FAT32, all the formats above
    USB key 2: 128MB FAT, a subset of the formats above
    �
  • Jul 7, 2012
    brianman
    Update:
    My Tesla co-pilot was accomodating, but we only had time to test the smaller FAT key. It seemed to play all the formats that I through at it, which included at least one of FLAC, MP#, OGG, WAV, and WMA. I'm not 100% sure it didn't "skip reject" some (because I was driving while she clicked through them) but it definitely did not "stall for a few seconds" reject any of them.

    Also note: the prototype at Bellevue mall (a) doesn't have a USB port and (b) has the wireless locked down. So no additional testing could be done there.
    �
  • Jul 7, 2012
    Jason S
    Was it pretty easy for her to find the files and just skip through them?

    Thanks for the testing!
    �
  • Jul 7, 2012
    brianman
    I didn't see any "explorer" style user interface. She was just clicking the next button through them, giving about 5 sec of play time each. (Same song in different formats.)
    �
  • Jul 7, 2012
    Bound466
    Very cool, thanks Brianman for checking that out. Very promising. Did it show you the file type on the screen as she played each file?

    I wonder if had the system only found 2 or 3 file types it recognized (out of the whole lot), but kept cycling through the same 2-3 files, it might appear that its playing more than just the 2-3 it recognized. Especially if you didn't see the file type being played.
    �
  • Jul 8, 2012
    gmontem
    It is probably playing only recognized file types, skipping those using unsupported codecs like FLAC. I think future audio tests should use recordings of yourself speaking out the audio codec used, e.g., "If you can hear this, Model S can play two channel 24-bit 96 kHz FLAC."
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  • Jul 8, 2012
    brianman
    Typically when formats are rejected by devices I've tried in the past, there's at least a few seconds where it tries and then aborts. I didn't see signs of that. Not definitive, but optimistic.

    And, yah, if I do the test again I'll try to have different content in each encoding so that it's easier to analyze.
    �
  • Jul 8, 2012
    kevincwelch
    Thanks for the update.

    When you were playing the songs, did the ID3, etc. tags display the appropriate information (including album pics) on the screen?

    I am very curious to see if the display comes up with a list of folders (as in Windows Explorer or my Garmin) from which you can touch and select.
    �
  • Jul 8, 2012
    Jason S
    Could just do some negative path testing -- rename a text file or two as ".MP3" and watch it barf or skip.
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  • Jul 8, 2012
    Andrew Wolfe
    Different hardware controller, so it becomes a software issue. I would not be surprised if it can handle a USB drives over 32GB.
    �
  • Jul 8, 2012
    shokunin
    Does anyone know if there's playlist support in the model S?
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  • Jul 8, 2012
    Andrew Wolfe
    Must be. Any $20 generic MP3 player has playlist support.
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  • Jul 8, 2012
    brianman
    One of my passengers said yes to the track names.

    As for the album pics, I wasn't looking at the full display so I'm not sure.

    Sorry for the incomplete info.
    �
  • Jul 8, 2012
    Larry Chanin
    Hi Andrew,

    Speaking of MP3 players, I have no experience with portable digital media players. Can you or others please explain whether an MP3 player whould be superior to a flashdrive in playing files on the Model S's sound system? For example, say the Model S can't recognize Flac files, could an appropriate MP3 player that does recognize Flac files do the decoding and route it to the Model S's sound system?

    Thanks.

    Larry
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  • Jul 8, 2012
    Larry Chanin
    What about multi-channel audio formats?

    The Sound Studio Package has a 12 speaker Dolby ProLogic 7.1 system. Is a Dolby decoder simply upmixing stereo to 7.1, or does the system actually accept 5.1 or 7.1 discrete audio? If it does accept multi-channel audio, I wonder which muli-channel audio formats it supports?

    Perhaps this is a dumb question, but how does one go about feeding multi-channel music to the system? Via a flashdrive or MP3 player? I have a few Blu-ray concerts. I imagine there would be some hurdles to overcome in feeding them to the system.

    Larry
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  • Jul 8, 2012
    1ton
    Sounds like there are a lot of audio options. Ideally I would like to play from Spotify - which shouldn't be a problem since it is Internet based...I just wonder if Spotify would charge you. When you use Spotify on your desktop it is free but on mobile device it's a subscription fee.

    I too would love a Bluetooth option to link my iPhone to the car with an interface.
    �
  • Jul 8, 2012
    NigelM
    Recommended reading: http://www.teslamotors.com/models/features#/interior
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  • Jul 10, 2012
    kendallpb
    I've never used a system like this, so it's interesting to hear how they usually work. If I wrote one, I'd have a list of well-known extensions that I knew I couldn't handle, and skip those without trying (e.g., why try a .wma file if as the developer you know you can't handle it); I'd only "try" files that had (a) known good filename extensions (blah.mp3, blah.aac, blah.wav, etc.), (b) completely unknown ones (like "blah.abc"), or (c) no extension (like "blah").

    Sorry, back seat programmer here...well, front seat, really. ;-)

    Anyway thanks for testing and reporting back! I love these nuggets of info.
    �
  • Sep 24, 2012
    Todd Burch
    Just received from my Tesla rep:

    Sounds like he didn't get my question.
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  • Sep 24, 2012
    KBF
    So, most of my audio files are mp3's from the late 90's, and are fine with my crappy laptop speakers, headphones, etc; I am planning on re-ripping my CD collection in lossless for the Model S. I have a MacBook Pro but I also can boot Windows if necessary. Should I use iTunes for ALAC, or is should I go with FLAC (and what ripping program is best)? At this point I may just wait until I hear about whether ALAC will be supported, unless FLAC is better in some way (they are both open-source now, as I understand it). Some of you are talking about multichannel files; since I haven't encoded anything yet, are there certain settings I need to be aware of? I actually am a big music-lover (and a multitude of genres, including classical - I teach music part-time and perform, in addition to my various other occupations), but just haven't chosen to spend the $$ for a good system (since my wife doesn't care that much). Now that I will have a nice setup, I plan on taking full advantage of my personal "studio". :)
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  • Sep 24, 2012
    ElSupreme
    I use WindowsAudio Lossless (.WMA) for all of my CD rips. I have used FLAC in the past but I my digital audio player wouldn't play nice at the time.

    I did have a program that would convert one format to another in bulk sets pretty quickly. I don't have any idea what it was called though. It was a Linux application. You should be fine picking any lossless format. As you should be able to use those as a base to convert to whatever you want from there on out.

    I believe that Zune software was kind enough to convert all my FLAC lossless to WMA lossless. I am almost positive that it wouldn't be kind enough to convert them back. But that was about 5 years ago so I may be misremembering some things.
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  • Sep 24, 2012
    pilotSteve
    Not to be an Apple 'fanboy' but you can purchase the iTunes Match service (which grants you rights to Apple's full quality version of all your songs, even those you rip'd from CDs), then re-download everything as AAC, high bit-rate MP3 or whatever you want. With a google search you can find out how to 'delete' then 're-download' all your songs in the new higher quality format. Something to consider. I did it with my large collection of CDs that I had only in medium quality MP3 and now have everything in AAC.

    �
  • Sep 24, 2012
    v12 to 12v
    Is this a small victory? (yes on FLAC, but a blank stare on discreet)

    I just learned that my favorite group got permission to re-release their music in FLAC and just made it available for download. But it is discreet, of course.

    Should I assume it will not play properly based on that response and pass on it? I already paid for hard copies in DVDa 5.1 and BluRay but they are copy protected.
    I just can't see spending money on mp3 due to the quality.
    �
  • Sep 24, 2012
    AndyM
    Some of us have tested FLAC format. For two-channel, it works well. ALAC might work too, but I haven't tested them on the cars in Tesla's demo inventory yet (others on the forum may have, and my memory sucks today). The majority of your CDs are very likely two-channel. You'd know it for sure if they weren't: they wouldn't play on cheap equipment like a discman.

    If you choose to rip into either format, it's very likely to play well in Model S without a problem. If it doesn't, you have "gold masters" to encode later to lossy formats that are known to work. And that can be automated so you don't have to swap discs for days. If you start ripping now, you might be done by the time your model S is delivered. :)

    If your hearing is less-than-a-perfectionsist's, like mine, you probably can choose a lossy format. Unless you have a reference studio close at hand, you would have to be really good to pick out the lossless from lossy-format audio playback. I personally can't. There will be others who say they can. It's a personal choice. MP3 or AAC at 320 kbps or better, will likely make you very happy. The iTunes Match idea from pilotSteve intrigues me... It sounds like a GREAT way to fetch high-bit versions of music without breaking open a single CD case.
    �
  • Sep 24, 2012
    KBF
    That sounds intriguing. I'll check it out. After researching and some tests, I'm guessing AAC should be doable for me (although the real test will be in my S) . I have a few really good CD's I'll use a lossless format just for posterity's sake.
    �
  • Oct 1, 2012
    rcc
    Can someone with a production car test if Apple Lossless format is supported? Sadly, to me the difference between 320 AAC and lossless is like night and day -- even (or especially) through a pair of noise-cancelling headphones on an airplane.

    Which is why Apple Match is a complete waste for me: Apple Match music is encoded in 256 kbps AAC. I'm thrilled if it works for you but unfortunately, it's not a solution that is workable for me.

    Thanks!!
    �
  • Oct 1, 2012
    dsm363
    I tried converting a FLAC file I found online to a .m4a file and it didn't seem to play on my Model S.
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  • Oct 1, 2012
    sublimaze1
    I guess this is one time when being around jets my whole military career is going to pay off. I am good with 192 and even up to 320 (which most of my music is). But above that, I really can't tell the difference. I mean, sorry that the highs aren't any crisper anymore, but that's the deal that comes with grey hair and teenagers. But that doesn't preclude the fact that I have a 32GB micro SD card in a micro reader all ready to plug in.
    �
  • Oct 1, 2012
    dsm363
    If someone has a way of getting some of the uncommon audio formats to me (Dropbox share folder or something like that) then I can try them out. ALAC doesn't seem to work.
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  • Oct 8, 2012
    W.Petefish
  • Oct 8, 2012
    MikeK
    .m4v? Really? I would expect .m4a (MPEG-4 Audio), but I thought .m4v was "MPEG-4 Video"

    Also, .m4a does not uniquely describe the codec of the file. Both AAC and ALAC (Apple Lossless) files are .m4a. AAC plays, ALAC does not, so far as I know.
    �
  • Oct 8, 2012
    AndyM
    I've added added WAV and FLAC multichannel to the sheet.
    I've linked to your document in the FAQ. :)
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  • Oct 8, 2012
    AndyM

    MPEG-4 is a container format, not an audio CODEC, to be precise. The Model S will correctly handle MPEG-4 containers, and the support for the audio inside those containers is going to be a separate list. I can't wait to get my car to spend a few hours putting this debate to rest. :)
    �
  • Oct 8, 2012
    dsm363
    If someone can provide samples of the various audio formats we still don't know about then I or someone else can put them on a USB drive and try them out. I tried the ALAC and that didn't work.
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  • Oct 8, 2012
    AndyM
    Making the sample files - at least collecting them - is what takes the longest amount of time. Unless a pro audio engineer around here has some reference files they'd be willing to "loan"...
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  • Oct 8, 2012
    MikeK
    I personally tested WAV, AIFF, MP3, AAC and ALAC. All of them played fine except ALAC.
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  • Oct 8, 2012
    W.Petefish
    Mistype. Sorry.
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  • Oct 8, 2012
    dadaleus
    The sheet says WAV multichannel is a Yes. Is this true??? After it failed to play my FLAC multichannel I assumed any multichannel was a no go. I can't find a reference to this in the thread.

    Now I just need to figure out how to make a WAV multichannel and I'm giving this a shot!
    �
  • Oct 8, 2012
    Larry Chanin
    Hi Jason,

    Try this for a start:

    Multichannel 7.1 and 5.1 Wav Test Files

    Larry
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  • Oct 8, 2012
    dadaleus

    ARGH! It plays but only channels 1 and 2 play. The other channels are simply missed. Had you or someone else tried this with a different result?

    So bummed. Was really excited there for a minute.
    �
  • Oct 8, 2012
    Larry Chanin
    Hi Jason,

    Like everyone else I've been following the threads that said someone had tested this during a Tesla test drive, but I was a little skeptical. If they were playing music they may have been listening to matrixed surrounds without realizing it. I think this test with voiced channels would provide more definitive results.

    I won't be getting my car for about 3 - 5 weeks. I'll give it a try then, but I'm not expecting much.

    Larry
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  • Oct 8, 2012
    v12 to 12v
    I was temporarily thrilled, yet skeptical, regarding the discreet multichannel news as well.

    I am concerned about George Blankenships response regarding the sound system though. I got the impression that he thought that the premium system is adequate as it stands.
    I hope they plan to continue working on it so that it will play discreet multichannel music formats.
    �
  • Oct 9, 2012
    W.Petefish
    Has anyone tried to make and play a playlist?

    EDIT: MODs:Can we sticky this thread and put a Wiki entry w/ the link to the spreadsheet at the front?
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  • Oct 9, 2012
    sublimaze1
    has anyone hooked up a bus powered hard drive to their USB to see if:

    (a) it will power up and read the mp3/aac/wav/etc. files

    and

    (b) if all the files are represented? (I had a Ford Sync in my truck that only allowed about 22,000 of the 80k songs to be read - sure, why do you need that many? I know, I know).

    Thanks
    WJ
    �
  • Oct 9, 2012
    dadaleus
    WJ, I haven't tried. But was thinking of it myself. I might try next weekend.

    Has anyone tried playing a DTS surround file? I'm not even sure what kind of audio container I can put that in or what program to do it in. I might play around but thought someone might know. This in the never ending pursuit of the sliver of hope that we might be able to get discrete surround to work.

    Maybe going slightly off topic, but I'm also confused about something with Dolby Pro-Logic. I can't find anyway to find out if a CD or song actually has a Pro-logic matrix. And it's hard for me to even tell by ear (which may cause some to argue it's a moot question, but I feel like if I actually knew I was getting what I'm supposed to then I could figure it out.) I also can't figure out how to create a Dolby ProLogic matrix when converting a discrete surround file (Flac or WAV) to stereo. Anyone here know or can point to a website that explains? In theory I'd think this is a problem others would have addressed. But I suppose anyone who cares enough has equipment that can play discrete surround, so no one tried to make Prologic surround anymore. (Except us with the Tesla surround problem.)
    �
  • Oct 10, 2012
    W.Petefish
    Apparently it can't read playlists... although I haven't tried all formats. (tried that w/ some plain text files last night exported directly from iTunes.)

    I'll try the hard disk presently.
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  • Oct 10, 2012
    sublimaze1
    results?
    �
  • Oct 10, 2012
    gmontem
    How about multi-channel LPCM?
    Sent from my HTC Titan using Board Express
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  • Oct 11, 2012
    W.Petefish
    No for NTFS formatted drives. IDK for others, some wouldn't even spin up.
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  • Oct 11, 2012
    sublimaze1
    Thanks. Looks like just a big SD card and call it a day.
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  • Oct 12, 2012
    shark2k
    How about formatting the HD to Fat32?

    -Shark2k
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  • Oct 12, 2012
    dadaleus
    I'm using a 64GB card from here I got for $40. Holds an awful lot of songs, even with many lossless. I suppose you could even use both USB ports, but then you'd not have all the songs together. (I've tried: You browse USB1 and USB2 separately.)
    �
  • Oct 15, 2012
    ElSupreme
    I tested WMA files while at the Dania Beach store. They worked flawlessly. And updated the spreadsheet.

    EDIT: And now I have this USB stick with a bunch of music on it, and sadly nowhere in my car to plug it in to play it.
    �
  • Oct 15, 2012
    sublimaze1
    I decided to go micro.

    I purchased a 32GB micro SD and a USB reader that is the size of my thumbnail. It protrudes from the port about 5mm.

    Now, the card is a class4, but I'm not streaming and a half second load time doesn't bother me. My only concern is that when in the belkin hub at home, it gets awfully warm. But at work, in the Dell, it doesn't. So I'm hoping for longevity whilst in the car and not running warm.
    �
  • Oct 15, 2012
    dadaleus
    Discovered that .m4a aac files play, but .m4a Apple Lossless do not.

    Also, flac woks up to 48khz / 24bit or 96khz / 16bit but not 96khz / 24bit.

    Strangely a .mp4 video file plays, but you can only hear it. (No video output obviously.) Discovered that by accident when there was a file from work on the USB stick I was testing with.

    Still haven't found a way to play discrete audio. :-(

    And just a clarification on the spreadsheet: Multichannel .wav does play, but it only plays the first two channels. (Unlike multichannel flac which wouldn't play at all.)
    �
  • Oct 16, 2012
    kevincwelch
    I was going to get a number of small USB drives, but I went your way as well.

    Both were purchased on Amazon. The USB reader and the Class 10/UHS Class 1 64 GB microsd card. Incidentally, the XC card works fine in the HC reader. I haven't benchmarked anything, so it probably doesn't take full advantage of the XC capabilities. I could always buy an XC specific reader.

    Warning: This thing is small! I'm sure if I dropped it between the seats of the Model S it would be gone forever.
    �
  • Oct 16, 2012
    dadaleus
  • Oct 16, 2012
    v12 to 12v
    Thanks for keeping us updated on the discrete situation. I haven't purchased any new music and I won't be until I hear how all this plays out.
    I came close to buying a load of multichannel FLAC files a week or so ago. I'm lucky I didn't it appears. I wouldn't have used them for anything but the car. I already own the music in hard copy that is copy protected.
    �
  • Oct 16, 2012
    MikeK
    I posted that above as well, based on experience at the PA test drive event. Sorry to hear it's still the case. :-( I would really like support for Apple Lossless, as it's a format I use a lot. I don't think the quality is needed in a car environment, but it would just save me the hassle of having to create different versions for the car. The codec is now in the public domain, so this should be a straightforward addition for Tesla as they refine the audio system.
    �
  • Oct 16, 2012
    rcc
    Like many people, I travel with an Ipod and I use Apple Lossless format exclusively. The difference is like night and day even with a $100 pair of headphones driven by an ipod.

    So I'm sure there is an audible difference in quality between 320 AAC and Lossless in a Tesla. It will certainly show in the upper midrange and treble.
    �
  • Oct 16, 2012
    dadaleus
    The Lossless issue is easily solved. Once you put all your songs on the USB stick, just use XLD to convert them in place to FLAC. FLAC is of identical quality to Apple Lossless and no quality is lost in the transcoding since these are lossless formats. XLD is freeware--just Google it.
    �
  • Oct 17, 2012
    rcc
    Good point. I run Windows, not Mac OS but I'm sure I can find a windows Apple Lossless to FLAC converter. Thanks!
    �
  • Oct 18, 2012
    v12 to 12v
    I've seen several suggestions regarding music storage. Yet I am not clear on what is best for the Model S Sound Studio.
    USB? SD? mini SD? micro?
    �
  • Oct 18, 2012
    sublimaze1
    Storage. Okay, you are asking storage. Well, the port is a USB, so your final connector will have to be USB.

    Now ...

    You can get pretty much any solution (SD, SDHC, SDmini SDmicro, even MSproDuo) as long as your reader is USB

    Now(2) ...

    The class of the storage device will render your access time results to vary (e.g. a class10 SD16 in a quality USBreader is going to zip right through the songs, while a SDHCmicro32 class2 in a chinatek reader is going to be quite a bit (relatively) slower.

    Petefish has already determined that a powered platter (e.g. a USB external hard drive) no workee.

    Hence, as far as storage, it really is up to you. Look, style, color (colour), size ... your call.

    Cheers
    WJ
    �
  • Oct 18, 2012
    v12 to 12v
    You gave me the answer I was looking for if I read you right. There is only a USB port, nothing else, correct?
    �
  • Oct 18, 2012
    sublimaze1
    C'est vrai. (that's true).
    �
  • Nov 12, 2012
    brianman
    Did anybody ever put together a wiki or FAQ entry listing the confirmed formats? As my vehicle approaches, I'm curious about which lossless formats are known to be compatible thus far (my source material is direct-from-CD uncompressed WAV files).

    Update: Post 84 has a link to some of the confirmed formats.
    �
  • Nov 13, 2012
    pilotSteve
    slightly OT, but large music libraries on a USB that only play in alphabetic order are kind of useless for me, regardless of the audio formats supported! Until Tesla add playlists, folders, shuffle, etc. to the built-in player I plan on using bluetooth from my iPhone.

    Yes I know how awful that audio connection is, but when driving I don't plan on having a pocketful of thumb drives, each with its own playlist!
    �
  • Nov 13, 2012
    ggr
    Hmm, I don't know how you approached it, but I copied my iTunes directory (after converting the few files that weren't already mp3s) to a USB, and I can select by artist, album, etc. just fine.
    �
  • Nov 13, 2012
    dadaleus
    The only things I had to convert were Apple Lossless files, and once I copied the iTunes music directory I just used XLD to recursively convert the Apple Lossless files with FLAC (and delete original).

    However, I would like a better way to skip to a particular letter. I have 10,000's of songs on there and I literally have to flick down about 100-200 times to go through the entire list of artists or albums, even within a genre like Alternative. It needs something like a list of letters down the right hand side you can press to skip to the desired letter in the alphabetical list. And I'd love to have shuffle.
    �
  • Dec 7, 2012
    JakeP
    Has anyone tested Audible Audiobook (.aa) format for playability? These are notoriously finicky with DRM issues and on what devices they can be played back. But they are definitely something I want to be able to listen to on long trips.
    �
  • Dec 8, 2012
    brianman
    You mean like this? ;)
    AlphabeticalIndex.png
    �
  • Dec 14, 2012
    Ceilidh
    I am setting up a USB drive to use in my car when it arrives. I too have to convert a large library from apple lossless to FLAC on my mac then transfer it to the USB stick.

    Thank you all for the reference to XLD. I do want to make sure I have my settings correct, however.

    When I go to preferences in XLD and select FLAC, I am sliding the compression to "none," then leaving "Custom Apodization Functions" unchecked. Padding defaults to 4 kb, and by default the "OggFLAC" box is unchecked, while the "Allow to embed cue sheet" and "Set OggS filetype" are both checked.

    If I leave it set up like this, is this the best way to retain sound quality while having files that the Model S recognizes? Just making sure I did this right.

    What's confusing me is I don't know anything about FLAC or Ogg and I thought that Ogg was a different file type that the Model S does not recognize but now I'm thinking I just have no idea what I'm doing and don't want to mess it up.

    Thanks for any tips.

    Cheers.

    ---

    So I ran it like this and noted that only some of my albums were converted. I am assuming that the program scanned the folder, found only the lossless file types, and converted those to FLAC, leaving AAC files as is? Is that correct?

    Cheers.
    �
  • Dec 14, 2012
    Lyon
    Okay, forgive me if this has been answered before but I'm struggling here.

    I have an iTunes music folder that contains subfolders for each artist and each artist subfolder contains album subfolders. Most of these are in Apple's .m4a format.

    I'm hoping to find something that will allow me to simply select the top level music folder and then basically tunnel into each subfolder and convert the files into something playable in the Model S. Doing this manually would be a royal PITA.

    I'm using a mac.

    Any suggestions?
    �
  • Dec 14, 2012
    Larry Chanin
    Hi,

    I just started experimenting with portable audio files and I don't know much about the details of iTunes folder structure. However, I just copied the .M4a files from my iTunes folder on my Windows-based laptop and placed them in the root directory of a thumb drive and they played flawlessly in my Model S. Apparently the Model S obtains the cover art via the Internet. On one occasion it selected the wrong cover art for the Beatles Love album, but nevertheless the files sound great.

    It also plays .flac files flawlessly.

    Larry
    �
  • Dec 14, 2012
    Lyon
    You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. More importantly, you've saved me oodles of time! Thanks!
    �
  • Dec 14, 2012
    Larry Chanin
    Pardon a rookie question, but how can one tell if cover art is stored in the file? In my case I use M4a files. When I use the iTunes application or Media Monkey on my computer with these same files I do get the correct cover art for the Beatles Love album. I figured there was an additional graphic file on my computer that was not transferred to the USB thumb drive.

    Anybody know how to force the correct cover art on when playing on the Model S?

    Larry
    �
  • Dec 19, 2012
    William3
    Ugh. More examples of Tesla's bad programmers. Here's the deal: Album art shows up if you sort by "song" or sort by "artist". If you sort by Folder (essentially sorting by filename) then you won't get album art or artist names. I'm getting less impressed each day. The Slacker & TuneIn apps seem like they are missing a lot of features of the web version. Also, if you play a WAV file from the USB thumbdrive then you won't get any transport controls.
    �
  • Dec 22, 2012
    MikeK
    .m4a can be either AAC or Apple Lossless. Model S can play AAC but not Apple Lossless at this time. iTunes will tell you what the codec is if you get info on a track.
    �
  • Dec 23, 2012
    ClearwaterBchSteve
    I ripped a selection of my favorite CDs to small form factor 16GB USB stick using FLAC 24bit @44.1Khz sampling rate. I have had no problem browsing by the various methods and album art is properly displayed. It's a small list of songs (500), but it only took the Model S a couple of seconds the first time the stick was inserted to catalogue the files. Selecting a file begins playback instantly and the sound quality is perfect (lossless). Keep in mind, FLAC is only about a 2-1 to 3-1 compression so the files require substantially more storage space than 128KB mp3's which are usually about 10-1 compression. Using the format I chose should provide for about 40 albums (600 songs) per 16GB of storage space.

    I prefer Dolby Surround off. The Model S was delivered with software version 4.0. Personally, I feel the quality of the amplifiers and speakers is worthy of a "high-end" car audio system as long as the source material is good. "garbage in, garbage out". A good audio system will make good material sound great and bad material sound worse.
    �
  • Dec 23, 2012
    dsm363
    I wouldn't necessailry assume Tesla has bad programmers. The UI for the car works very well. It might simply be a factor of time to market. They are slowly releasing updates to address these issues. There are still many missing features and lots of work to do. I agree the media apps and Nav need most work.
    �
  • Dec 23, 2012
    jerry33
    +1 Even the best programmers can only program so much in a day.
    �
  • Dec 23, 2012
    Ceilidh
    You mean not all programmers are like Hugh Jackman in Swordfish?!

    cheers. :)
    �
  • Dec 23, 2012
    jerry33
    LOL. Not all programmers are even like me :)
    �
  • Dec 23, 2012
    brianman
    Only Hollywood programmers are like that.
    �
  • Dec 23, 2012
    William3
    Time to market. Hmmmmm. They've been working on it for 3 years. Not impressed.
    �
  • Dec 24, 2012
    pilotSteve
    Its all about the Risk/Reward ratio as I recall....
    �
  • Jan 2, 2013
    NigelM
    Mod Note: Un-sticking this thread and adding Tags to optimize searches.
    �
  • Jan 3, 2013
    GreenMonster
    Hello, I'm new to this thread, so pardon me if this question has already been answered. I've had my Model S for a few months now and have yet to get my iPod to work when plugged into one of the car's USB jacks. At the time the car was delivered, I was told that this issue would be addressed in a future software update to the vehicle. Does anyone know when this update is coming? Seems very strange that a vehicle with this much technology is unable to play the world's most popular portable media player. (Note: I also own a Roadster and the iPod plays fine in that vehicle, which makes this even more strange.)
    �
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