teslamotorclub: Very sad... Fatality in a Model S on the 405 part 1

7-year-old girl dies, 13-year-old in critical condition after 405 Freeway crash in Seal Beach

Wow, this is terrible. Who would think they would get creamed by a drunk driver at 9 in the morning on the 405? My condolences to the family.

It is very sad to read this when we hear so many amazing stories about how being in a Model S saved a life. Its stuff like this that makes me hope we get to Level 4 autonomy soon. Take these sorts of a-holes out of the driver's seats.
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DUI is the worst on road, He should be prosecuted with murder.
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Terrible story
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So sad.
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Sad.

privater said: ?

DUI is the worst on road, He should be prosecuted with murder.
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Agreed.

And people who get caught driving under the influence without crashing should be charged with attempted murder.
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Sadly odds are this wasn't his first DUI and the BAC will be shockingly high for someone to get behind the wheel. Especially considering the time of day.

https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/811654
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Horrible. But the exact reason I said I would never put my kids in the trunk of my car. Have always been surprised that those rear seats were even approved being that they are in the crush zone of the vehicle. Not blaming Tesla at all. It's just physics. Not enough room from the passenger to the rear of the car in a high speed rear end collision. At least in the back seats, the occupants are facing away from the oncoming danger and have the added protection of the seats at their backs with room to push forward. No such possibility in those rear seats. Had hoped i would never have to read about this, but this was my exact fear in those seats and exactly why I did not get them in my car. Prayers and condolences go out to the family of those lost. I pray that parents will learn from this and not subject their kids to this location of ANY car. Again, nothing to do with the Tesla other than the fact that they're one of the few that offered this seating configuration.
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If proven to have been drunk, the driver will absolutely be charged with a minimum of vehicular manslaughter and more likely 2nd degree murder.
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luvnMyTS said: ?

Horrible. But the exact reason I said I would never put my kids in the trunk of my car. Have always been surprised that those rear seats were even approved being that they are in the crush zone of the vehicle. Not blaming Tesla at all. It's just physics. Not enough room from the passenger to the rear of the car in a high speed rear end collision. At least in the back seats, the occupants are facing away from the oncoming danger and have the added protection of the seats at their backs with room to push forward. No such possibility in those rear seats. Had hoped i would never have to read about this, but this was my exact fear in those seats and exactly why I did not get them in my car. Prayers and condolences go out to the family of those lost. I pray that parents will learn from this and not subject their kids to this location of ANY car. Again, nothing to do with the Tesla other than the fact that they're one of the few that offered this seating configuration.
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Why do you think they were in the trunk seats? Article just said the girls were in the back seat. Plus, a 13 year old seems too old and big to be in the jump seats.
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Condolences to the family of the victims. Hopefully the elder daughter will be okay.
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mhan00 said: ?

Why do you think they were in the trunk seats? Article just said the girls were in the back seat. Plus, a 13 year old seems too old and big to be in the jump seats.
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It doesn't look like that car had trunk seats - trunk seat vehicles have a solid support structure in the back, which isn't visible here - it crumbled like it is supposed to.

However, if the front seat driver had minor injuries and the rear seat passengers both had critical injuries it is possible that the rear seat passengers weren't wearing seat belts. Pure speculation of course.

Here are some larger pictures and it appears as if the rear seat is still intact and latched:

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.. the DUI suspect, who was driving a Chevrolet Tahoe, was in the fast lane when he swerved into one of two carpool lanes,..The suspect, who was not immediately identified, insisted on being taken to an area hospital for evaluation

The suspect, Adam Kanas, 36 of San Clemente. You know why he insisted on being taken to the hospital for evaluation? He will plead mental incapacity defense. The jackass had enough sense to make such a decision, but not enough sense to not get behind the wheel, drunk, at 9AM.

.. The more I learn about people, the more I like my dog.
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it was a seriously hard hit, clearly at a very high rate of speed. i don't know if the kids were in the far rear seats or just the back seats. if they were in the back seats, then they had a better chance. Clearly if that's the case, there's no doubt the result would have been the same for the 7 year old if they were in the far back and likely the 13 year old wouldn't have made it as well. Regardless, those far rear seats scare the heck out of me. I just couldn't put my kids back there. With as bad as this accident was, almost certain nobody in the far rear seats would have survived. Again, not placing any blame on anyone other than the idiotic drunk driver. Just saying, there's no doubt that occupants are less safe in the far rear seats than they would be in the front or regular rear seats. So, just my personal preference, nobody would be riding in my trunk with the car in motion.
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Zero tolerance for drunk drivers and their selfish,thoughtless and irresponsible lives. And I'd throw the book at any establishment and friend that contributed to his condition too.

My heart aches for this family.....their world is shattered, and our world should be utterly ashamed of our lax DUI laws.
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Yeah, they certainly are lax. Here, the legal limit is 0.2, and if you're over 0.5 you lose your licence for minimum a year and might go to prison, over 1.2 and you'll lose it for 2-5 years and get a minimum of 21 days in prison. There's also a fine equal to 1.5 months income on top of that, for 0.2 and above.

Anyway, really tragic accident. (Can you really call it an "accident"? "Homicide" seems more appropriate.) Can't wait until autonomous driving becomes standard.
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luvnMyTS said: ?

it was a seriously hard hit, clearly at a very high rate of speed. i don't know if the kids were in the far rear seats or just the back seats. if they were in the back seats, then they had a better chance. Clearly if that's the case, there's no doubt the result would have been the same for the 7 year old if they were in the far back and likely the 13 year old wouldn't have made it as well. Regardless, those far rear seats scare the heck out of me. I just couldn't put my kids back there. With as bad as this accident was, almost certain nobody in the far rear seats would have survived. Again, not placing any blame on anyone other than the idiotic drunk driver. Just saying, there's no doubt that occupants are less safe in the far rear seats than they would be in the front or regular rear seats. So, just my personal preference, nobody would be riding in my trunk with the car in motion.
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Except if there was a head on collision in which case the rear facing seats may be the safest place.. Every accident is different and depending on the impact any area can be safer than another
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AMPUP said: ?

Except if there was a head on collision in which case the rear facing seats may be the safest place.. Every accident is different and depending on the impact any area can be safer than another
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And serious head on and side collisions are more frequent. Rear Enders happen all the time but they are usually much lower impact.
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Tragic.
Prayers for this family.

Because the DUI driver was in a Tahoe, the height of the bumper areas do not align.
The rear of any car is not designed to be hit at a high rate of speed by a higher mounted bumper.
-- Looks like in this instance the Tesla does not have the benefit of structural rigidity that the skateboard design gives the car if the DUI vehicle had been in a traditional car height vehicle.

In addition to the two girls, the father was also injured and taken to the hospital, so this was a very high speed impact.
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Even the Civic that got tagged by the Tesla in secondary contact after the S got rear ended shows pretty significant damage, which tells you the impact of the Tahoe must have been very severe.

"Adam Kansas, a 36-year-old man from San Clemente, was arrested on suspicion of Driving Under the Influence and booked into Orange County Jail, Joy reported."

That guy needs to be tossed in rape-you-in-the-@$$ prison with the key thrown away. It's a shame the death penalty is not an option.
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luvnMyTS said: ?

Clearly if that's the case, there's no doubt the result would have been the same for the 7 year old if they were in the far back and likely the 13 year old wouldn't have made it as well.
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You can't say that for sure - cars with the rear facing seats at the back are built in a different way (they have a solid bar across the back), so the collision impact will look very different on them.

Most likely the rear would be much more intact, and the front would have a lot more damage. Of course in that case, ALL occupants of the vehicle will suffer more deceleration G's.

So if the car had rear-facing seats installed (doesn't look like it did), it's likely there would have been even more injuries - even if those seats weren't in use.
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deonb said: ?

ALL occupants of the vehicle will suffer more deceleration G's.
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.. and perhaps the car in front?
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No matter how safe a car is I don't think fatalaties can be prevented 100%. What a shame for that family. Life can be taken in an instant because of fools like him
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This is a very sad story. I cannot imagine the anguish the father is feeling.

I think it is very important to try to stick to the facts of the accident as reported when trying to understand what happened. The Tesla was in the HOV lane but it's speed is unknown to us. The Chevy Tahoe clearly hit it from the rear mostly straight on, based on the photo. A Tahoe weighs approximately 5400 lbs. A Model S weights about 4800 lbs. For the Tahoe to inflict such severe damage on the rear of the S it must have been traveling much faster than the S. That is an extremely difficult scenario to fully protect rear seat passengers from.
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I read somewhere that the boron reinforced rear bumper are rated to withstand a rear accident differential of 55mph. I don't remember where I read it, or if Elon said it at some point, but if that's true, I have no issues about putting my kids in the rear seats.
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deonb said: ?

You can't say that for sure - cars with the rear facing seats at the back are built in a different way (they have a solid bar across the back), so the collision impact will look very different on them.

Most likely the rear would be much more intact, and the front would have a lot more damage. Of course in that case, ALL occupants of the vehicle will suffer more deceleration G's.

So if the car had rear-facing seats installed (doesn't look like it did), it's likely there would have been even more injuries - even if those seats weren't in use.
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This is tough to say. While a better match in bumper height would mean more immediate force transfer to a reinforced rear bumper and thus more acceleration of Tesla plus occupants on impact, this would be better than what appears to have happened with the Tahoe going up and over the back. The two cars are fairly similar in weight (Tahoe is about 5500LBS). Increasing the secondary front impact in this scenario would not be as dangerous given the Tesla's advanced front-end crash protection, front airbags and very long front crumple zone.
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Ugh. I can't imagine.

As tragic as this is, the Tesla may have saved the life of the father and the second daughter.
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A few more details

BREAKING: San Clemente Man Named in Tesla Crash that Kills 7-year-old
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This is truly tragic. I don't have words for this loss.
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twonius said: ?

A few more details

BREAKING: San Clemente Man Named in Tesla Crash that Kills 7-year-old
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On no, I just saw the Tesla drivers name. He's a silicon valley guy and well known in the tech community. Oh this is just awful.
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DFibRL8R said: ?

This is tough to say. While a better match in bumper height would mean more immediate force transfer to a reinforced rear bumper and thus more acceleration of Tesla plus occupants on impact, this would be better than what appears to have happened with the Tahoe going up and over the back. The two cars are fairly similar in weight (Tahoe is about 5500LBS). Increasing the secondary front impact in this scenario would not be as dangerous given the Tesla's advanced front-end crash protection, front airbags and very long front crumple zone. View attachment 190341
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Whats surprising for me in the photos is that the frame rails don't crumple so they end up focusing energy into the other car.
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"Reports state that 36-year-old Adam Kansas of San Clemente, who was driving Tahoe was "swerving in and out of lanes" and crossed double yellow lanes near Seal Beach Boulevard exit on the 405 Northbound."

The Tesla family was from Northern California, Hillsborough...
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NikeWings said: ?

On no, I just saw the Tesla drivers name. He's a silicon valley guy and well known in the tech community. Oh this is just awful.
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I'm always weary of connecting the dots on names from a report. A friend of mine's brother is pretty well screwed if you google his name.

There was another guy in the med school class behind him with the same first and last name who was caught for abusing animals. So while this poor guy is out volunteering for MSF he starts getting email death threats.You only know it's not him from the picture.
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deonb said: ?

However, if the front seat driver had minor injuries and the rear seat passengers both had critical injuries it is possible that the rear seat passengers weren't wearing seat belts. Pure speculation of course.
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The 7 year old would have still been required to be in a booster seat. The chance of the kids not being bucked in is really small.

The seatbacks of the rear seats sit above the wheels. The crash damage shows the Tahoe pushed beyond that, especially on the passenger-side of the vehicle. That's going to be bad, seatbelt or no.

Really sad. Makes me want to go hug my little guy.
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My Scion FR-S for totaled on May 1st by a drunk driver. Thank god it happened while the car was parked and I was away surfing. Had it happened a few minutes prior when I was getting ready to go in the water I would likely have been injured.

That happened in OC as well. I can confirm the feel that justice is too lax. In my case the driver I believe was charged for a misdemeanor. That is despite the fact that according to a witness he was trying to flee the scene (but thank got could not as his car was too damaged).

I never really thought about drunk drivers until this. My only conclusion from it is that anything can happen and there is not much we can do but just hope not to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.
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Owner said: ?

The Tesla family was from Northern California, Hillsborough...
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I'm guessing this is the guy: Don Geddis

My friend was recently hit by a drunk driver while riding his bicycle. It was only by luck that he survived without any major injuries. The driver took off after checking to make sure he wasn't dead but was later apprehended. The driver's BAC was 3x the legal limit, he was driving while drinking a 1/5 of liquor and had a bag of weed on him; it was 4/20/2016 (420).

Anyways, turns out that he is the son of the former police chief of our city and his mom was the former chief press officer for the New York State police. His uncle was also the former police chief as was his grandfather before them.

They successfully kept it out of the press for a while until my friend, the victim, called the local newspaper. They ran one, small story and no other outlet picked it up. The family immediately sent the kid to rehab in Florida and he is now back currently pending trial.

Unfortunately, it is rather routine to plea out a DUI hit-and-run where there is no fatality on your first offense. And it sounds like that is what will happen in this case. Sad that it would take my friend to be gravely injured or killed for this asshat to get the punishment he deserves.

Son of ex-Albany police chief Tuffey faces DWI after cyclist hit
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jfoxny said: ?

I'm guessing this is the guy: Don Geddis

My friend was recently hit by a drunk driver while riding his bicycle. It was only by luck that he survived without any major injuries. The driver took off after checking to make sure he wasn't dead but was later apprehended. The driver's BAC was 3x the legal limit, he was driving while drinking a 1/5 of liquor and had a bag of weed on him; it was 4/20/2016 (420).

Anyways, turns out that he is the son of the former police chief of our city and his mom was the former chief press officer for the New York State police. His uncle was also the former police chief as was his grandfather before them.

They successfully kept it out of the press for a while until my friend, the victim, called the local newspaper. They ran one, small story and no other outlet picked it up. The family immediately sent the kid to rehab in Florida and he is now back currently pending trial.

Unfortunately, it is rather routine to plea out a DUI hit-and-run where there is no fatality on your first offense. And it sounds like that is what will happen in this case. Sad that it would take my friend to be gravely injured or killed for this asshat to get the punishment he deserves.

Son of ex-Albany police chief Tuffey faces DWI after cyclist hit
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The article is paywalled. Oh well, journalists gotta eat too i guess.
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Max* said: ?

I read somewhere that the boron reinforced rear bumper are rated to withstand a rear accident differential of 55mph. I don't remember where I read it, or if Elon said it at some point, but if that's true, I have no issues about putting my kids in the rear seats.
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Elon said it. And he mentioned that it would withstand a hit by a semi going 55mph faster. Of course, there's nothing the rear bumper can do if the car behind goes over and on top.
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Boourns said: ?

As tragic as this is, the Tesla may have saved the life of the father and the second daughter.
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Given the impact absorbed by the Tesla, I wonder if the it also saved the lives of the people in the Honda Civic ahead of it.

I know there are a ton of Tesla drivers out there, but I can't help feeling like we're sort of an extended family. That, combined with the death of a child and the likelihood that this was caused by someone driving a tank like a Tahoe while intoxicated makes me feel positively ill.
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Sad story.

Every accident and the optimal car setup for that accident is different. So the added rear stiffness of the 7 seat variant might increase deformation and acceleration for the front 5 seats in case of being rear ended by a "normal" car. It might just have helped in cases of being rear ended by a "non standard" high and heavy SUV, as you need significant energy absorbtion capability in the upper part of the rear structure.

So bottom line is that it's utmost sad, and the faster we get active safety features and full autonomous driving mainstream the more lives will be saved.
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Wasnt there a tesla here that was hit in the rear by a tractor trailer and drove it home. It was pretty convincing that the rear area was safe.

Sad to hear about this family. Prayers go out to them!
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Fezzik said: ?

Wasnt there a tesla here that was hit in the rear by a tractor trailer and drove it home. It was pretty convincing that the rear area was safe.

Sad to hear about this family. Prayers go out to them!
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It won't ride up on a car because it has a bumper at the right level for both crash protect and aerodynamics, versus a car design for suburban curb-hopping.
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buckerine said: ?

Of course, there's nothing the rear bumper can do if the car behind goes over and on top.
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Based only on the few photos available, that appears to be what happened. The Tahoe has a relatively high bumper and it was obviously going dangerously fast and out of control (since it initiated the crash the Tahoe driver was clearly not "in control"). It appears to have overrode the Tesla rear bumper and impinged into the rear trunk are, with tragic results.
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My condolences to the family.
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ecarfan said: ?

Based only on the few photos available, that appears to be what happened. The Tahoe has a relatively high bumper and it was obviously going dangerously fast and out of control (since it initiated the crash the Tahoe driver was clearly not "in control"). It appears to have overrode the Tesla rear bumper and impinged into the rear trunk are, with tragic results.
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It looks to me like he smashed into the back and everything in the back crumpled. It doesn't seem as if the tahoe crashed on top.
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This is so sad. They are our neighbors. He's a great guy, active in the school board. The 13 year old sister is in critical condition. She is a classmate and friend of my son. When they were in first grade, she was his "girlfriend".

Furious that someone would DUI, particularly at 9:30am.

Give those that you love a hug.
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I appreciate all the expressions of sympathy. I did not have rear-facing trunk seats. My daughters were in the normal second row, with their seat belts on. At the time of the accident, my car was stopped on the freeway (as was the traffic ahead of me). I believe the car that rear-ended me was traveling at roughly normal highway speeds.
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Also, my younger daughter, who was killed in the crash, was 10 years old, and about to start 6th grade in middle school next Monday.
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Don Geddis said: ?

Also, my younger daughter, who was killed in the crash, was 10 years old, and about to start 6th grade in middle school next Monday.
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Even though we don't know each other, my thoughts are with you and your family.
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Thoughts and prayers go out to you and your family in these difficult times Don.
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Don Geddis said: ?

I appreciate all the expressions of sympathy. I did not have rear-facing trunk seats. My daughters were in the normal second row, with their seat belts on. At the time of the accident, my car was stopped on the freeway (as was the traffic ahead of me). I believe the car that rear-ended me was traveling at roughly normal highway speeds.
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Very, VERY sorry to hear of your loss and my sympathies to you and your family.

Tesla owners/fans are a close knit group and so when someone is involved in a tragedy it feels like we lost one of our own, even if we have never met.
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My heart goes out to you and your family.
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I am so sorry for your loss. My condolences to you and your family.
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Don Geddis said: ?

Also, my younger daughter, who was killed in the crash, was 10 years old, and about to start 6th grade in middle school next Monday.
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Don, I don't even know how you can type these messages. While they are appreciated, please know that our hearts are broken over the news and your loss. If there is anything the Tesla family can do, please let us know.
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Very sorry for your loss! I can't imagine having to go through this since I have 2 young kids myself.
Condolences to your family.
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Extremely sorry for your loss. My heart just sank when I read the headline. Absolutely tragic.
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Don, I am so sorry for your loss.
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I can only wish you a speedy recovery Don, and my heart goes out to you and your family... As others have said, we are a special family of Tesla owners, who will feel each other's pains.... an emotional pain which disturbs me greatly for your loss. My thoughts are with you.
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My condolences to you and your family Don.
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Don - so sorry to hear about your loss. I have 2 children and can't even begin to imagine what you must be going through right now. Thoughts and prayers with you and your family.
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Don, my thoughts and prayers are with you and your family. I hope your elder daughter's condition has improved and is stable.
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I can add nothing but a "Me too" to the sentiments expressed before me. This tragedy makes all our hearts ache.
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Deepest condolences
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Reading this from across the pond with a tear in my eye. Deepest sympathy for your loss and wishing your other daughter a speedy recovery.
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What a senseless waste. The guy was drunk in the middle of the day. Not driving on empty roads (not that that's an excuse) but I hope they throw the book at him.
You can see in the 2nd photo on pg1 that the number plate (and evidently rear of the car) has been seperated from the base and driven up and almost horizontal. There's then a high chance that some part of the metal pushed through to the rear passenger seats of the cars injuring both children.
<rant> The high bumpers of SUV's makes me very glad in Europe that trucks are far far less common. People buy these large SUV's often as status symbols with no thought about safety of pedestrians, other road users, cyclists, pollution (eg. benzene - a petrol additive is a carcainogen at 1 part per billion - there is no safe limit).
With their high fronts they make the bumper ride up into the passenger cabin - missing the floor of most cars. The make pedestrian collisions more likely to be fatal (obvious really where a normal car might hit the legs, waist) a taller car with a high front is likely to hit the trunk or head - making even low speed collisions more likely to be fatal... then (and a contributing factor must be their height + weight) you often hear about people reversing over their family members on their own drive! In Europe I think they banned "bull-bars" for this reason.
The mass of the Tahoe (5600 pounds - 2.5 tons) is even more than the Tesla. Then you have a lot more kinetic energy to stop.
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WannabeOwner said: ?

.. and perhaps the car in front?
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Each collision would become significantly less intense.
People can survive momentary G's in the 50's and low 100's. I've seen studies on this. eg. a 50mph car coming to a stop in about 1m can lead to that g force. But that's survivable (providing you're wearing your seat-belt). A compromised car interior is more likely not.
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Don Geddis said: ?

Also, my younger daughter, who was killed in the crash, was 10 years old, and about to start 6th grade in middle school next Monday.
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My god - am so sorry to hear of your loss. With 2 daughters myself I can't imagine what you must be going through. I'm touched to see the sympathy from the community both here and in your home town. Finally - I hope they prosecute the other driver to the full extent of the law. I really feel high SUV's are not safe for other road users - and being driven by a drunk are a lethal weapon.
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I'm sorry about your loss.
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luvnMyTS said: ?

Horrible. But the exact reason I said I would never put my kids in the trunk of my car. Have always been surprised that those rear seats were even approved being that they are in the crush zone of the vehicle. Not blaming Tesla at all. It's just physics. Not enough room from the passenger to the rear of the car in a high speed rear end collision. At least in the back seats, the occupants are facing away from the oncoming danger and have the added protection of the seats at their backs with room to push forward. No such possibility in those rear seats.
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I've seen the entire backseat area of a car smashed by a drunk driver... that's not a guarantee of safety either.

Also the passengers in question were in the back seat not rear facing trunk seats.

It's terrifying that drunk driving accidents can happen at seemingly random. Even in one of the world's safest cars, passengers still aren't safe from people who shouldn't be driving.

I hope autonomous cars come as soon as possible and there's widespread adoption, especially for people who have a propensity to drink.
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Don - you have my sincerest condolences. I wish you and your daughter the best in your recovery.
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Your family is in my thoughts and prayers. I hope that your daughter is doing better and that you are also recovering. I echo what was said above in that if there is anything we can do, then reach out to us.
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Don Geddis said: ?

I appreciate all the expressions of sympathy. I did not have rear-facing trunk seats. My daughters were in the normal second row, with their seat belts on. At the time of the accident, my car was stopped on the freeway (as was the traffic ahead of me). I believe the car that rear-ended me was traveling at roughly normal highway speeds.
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My heart breaks for you and your family. I am so sorry.
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Don, as a father of two daughters myself, I am very sorry to hear of your loss. My deepest sympathies to your family.
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So sorry for your loss. I hope your older daughter is okay and makes a full recovery.
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Don Geddis said: ?

I appreciate all the expressions of sympathy. I did not have rear-facing trunk seats. My daughters were in the normal second row, with their seat belts on. At the time of the accident, my car was stopped on the freeway (as was the traffic ahead of me). I believe the car that rear-ended me was traveling at roughly normal highway speeds.
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Very little I can say to mitigate your pain, but offer you a poem I learned a long time ago:

People so seldom say
I love you
and either it's too late
Or love goes
So when I tell you
I love you
It doesn't mean I know you'll never go
only that I wish you didn't have to.
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Don Geddis said: ?

I appreciate all the expressions of sympathy. I did not have rear-facing trunk seats. My daughters were in the normal second row, with their seat belts on. At the time of the accident, my car was stopped on the freeway (as was the traffic ahead of me). I believe the car that rear-ended me was traveling at roughly normal highway speeds.
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My sympathies are included also. Just so heartbreaking.

Its good to know your feeling well enough to read this forum. Thanks for letting the public also know the details of the incident to avoid unnecessary speculation.
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I can't even begin to wrap my head around the emotions you must be experiencing right now. Words feel meaningless. I just want to reach through the computer and hug you.
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My deepest sympathies to you and your family. If there's anything we in the Tesla owner / enthusiast community can do to help, please let us know.

Bruce.
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I would also like to extend my deepest sympathies to you and your family. Absolutely horrible.

I wish I could come up with something more to say but am unable...

Jeff
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Don,

What a terrible tragedy. I imagine you felt hopeless in that kind of situation when you are stuck in traffic and something comes barreling towards you at full speed. I echo others in that I am here for you - please let me know if there is anything at all I can do to help.

Brent
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So sorry Don.
Obviously the Tesla family from Coast to Coast and around the world is thinking of you and your loved ones as you face this tragedy.
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I am so sorry for your loss, as a father of 3 young children, this is extremely sad. I hope your older daughter gets better.
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As a father of 2 young children, I am heartbroken hearing this story. My prayer is with your family.
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My condolences to you and your family DG. I could definitely see the TMC community here coming together to do a charity drive or event to honor your daughter's life.
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As a father and tesla owner, I deeply feel sorry and am shocked.

My deepest condolences to Don Gedddis and family.
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Really sad to hear about this, Don. We all hope your elder daughter's condition improves soon. Our thoughts are with you and your family.

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Blessings & condolences to the Geddis Family.

Man charged in crash that killed 10-year-old girl; had prior DUI conviction

A man suspected of driving under the influence in a freeway crash that killed a 10-year-old girl on the I-405 in Seal Beach on Monday was on probation for a prior DUI conviction, authorities said Wednesday.

Adam Kanas, 36, of San Clemente was charged on Wednesday with one felony count of gross vehicular manslaughter while intoxicated with a prior conviction, and three felony counts of driving under the influence of drugs causing bodily injury.

Prosecutors said Kanas was allegedly driving under the influence of cocaine and opiates at about 9:20 a.m. Monday when his 2013 Chevy Tahoe swerved left over the double-yellow line into the carpool lane and struck the rear of a 2015 Tesla near the Seal Beach Boulevard exit on the northbound I-405.

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Me too. I know your pain, lost a daughter. I hope your other daughter recovers fully.
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Don,
Deepest condolences. .may your 10 yr old rest in peace and your elder daughter recover fast.
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Doug_G said: ?

So sorry for your loss. I hope your older daughter is okay and makes a full recovery.
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Ditto here. Not my words and not an exact quote, but fitting...

When a child loses a parent, they are orphaned. When an adult loses a spouse, they are widowed.

There are no words for someone losing a child.
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MoeSzyzlak said: ?

A man suspected of driving under the influence in a freeway crash that killed a 10-year-old girl on the I-405 in Seal Beach on Monday was on probation for a prior DUI conviction, authorities said Wednesday.
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This tragic incident should cause us to evaluate the laws that don't go far enough to regulate light trucks in my opinion.

Why is anyone on probation for DUI allowed to drive a tank like the Tahoe? Seriously, driving anything heavier than a moped should be outlawed after a DUI conviction! Driving is a privilege and driving a "light truck" should be restricted only to those citizens who have demonstrated through their pristine driving records and a special permitting process that they can be trusted by the rest of the driving public to operate these dangerous (heavy, mis-matched bumper heights, prone to roll-over) machines.
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Wow. That is terrible. This guy shouldn't have even been on the road. I don't even have the words...
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I don't know why these stories get so much traction.

Actually I do....but I care not to change the subject.

I know good news does not sell, but I would love to see some threads about good news.
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It does make me wonder how strong the back of all cars are - most safety test videos normally show a front, off-centre front (to simulate a country road with no barrier type road collision) and side impact - and cars have improved massively in the last 15 years in these areas. But I can't recall any showing a rear impact. Is it even part of the test?
Secondly - as you probably all know if a Tesla is sold with the rear facing jump seats then it has its rear section strengthened with an extra reinforcement beam. I can't help thinking that a similar collision would cause less damage to the rear of the car - and probably help rear-seat passengers too. A stronger cage and the inertia would act more to shove the car forward than damage the car. Does anyone know the height of the extra reinforcement beam - is it fitted higher up? Maybe Tesla could look to strengthen this part of the car too?
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googlepeakoil said: ?

Secondly - as you probably all know if a Tesla is sold with the rear facing jump seats then it has its rear section strengthened with an extra reinforcement beam. I can't help thinking that a similar collision would cause less damage to the rear of the car - and probably help rear-seat passengers too. A stronger cage and the inertia would act more to shove the car forward than damage the car. Does anyone know the height of the extra reinforcement beam - is it fitted higher up? Maybe Tesla could look to strengthen this part of the car too?
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This is how things look under the bumper cover. I installed an eco hitch to carry bikes and to install you remove both the regular steel (black) bumper and the high strength boron steel (body color). Maybe there is additional structural reinforcement deeper in the back of the car also but I'm not sure. Photos show both bumpers removed on ground then the boron reinstalled over the hitch and finally the regular steel bumper.

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IIRC new models (D models and newer?) don't require additional reinforcement for the rear jump seats. Apparently the added rigidity is already in all newer models? Can anyone confirm?
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Caligula said: ?

IIRC new models (D models and newer?) don't require additional reinforcement for the rear jump seats. Apparently the added rigidity is already in all newer models? Can anyone confirm?
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I've heard that speculation, but I don't believe it's true. I think the speculation started when people were able to get the RFS retrofitted at about the same cost as buying it from the factory ($3k I think? $3.5k?). The speculation ensured in that thread that they must have come reinforced, and I believe (and I could be remembering wrong) the OP came back and said that the $3-3.5k included adding additional reinforcements as they would do in the factory.
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The pictures of the Tahoe show its front reinforced bumper and frame acting as a battering ram right into the cabin of the the Model S.

In a head on collision you have 2 reinforced frames going head to head absorbing impact. The Model S did what it was designed to do and crumple, unfortunately it seems that the Tahoe's reinforced bumper did not and pushed its way forward.

My blood pressure rises and am emotionally upset just seeing the pictures of the guy and the fact he had a prior DUI. May Kendra rest in peace and pray for a speedy recovery for both Kayla and Don.
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Don Geddis said: ?

Also, my younger daughter, who was killed in the crash, was 10 years old, and about to start 6th grade in middle school next Monday.
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My family and I were saddened to hear of your loss and can't imagine how painful it is. You have our deepest sympathy.
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DFibRL8R said: ?

This is how things look under the bumper cover. I installed an eco hitch to carry bikes and to install you remove both the regular steel (black) bumper and the high strength boron steel (body color). Maybe there is additional structural reinforcement deeper in the back of the car also but I'm not sure. Photos show both bumpers removed on ground then the boron reinstalled over the hitch and finally the regular steel bumper. View attachment 190580
View attachment 190581 View attachment 190582
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In your pictures, the flatter body-colored beam is the reinforced bumper. My car does not have this reinforcement (or rear facing seats) as verified when my Ecohitch was installed (TeslaPittsburgh.com: My Baby Gets Back: Torklift EcoHitch Review)

The regular steel bumper is what all cars have. That said, it doesn't seem like it would be difficult to obtain and add the reinforcement beam for those who desire to do so. I thought about it when having my hitch installed but reasoned it would stiffen the structure and pass through forces rather than absorb them.

I don't think anything can be done to prevent the kind of devastation a stopped car will experience when rear-ended by another vehicle at highway speeds.
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Don, I am so so sorry. Reading this thread brought tears to my eyes. Your loss is unimaginable. Condolences to you and your family.
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Newscutter said: ?

I don't think anything can be done to prevent the kind of devastation a stopped car will experience when rear-ended by another vehicle at highway speeds.
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Something like this on the back?

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In times like this one wishes drawing on the wheel or quartering and butchering were still permissible sentences.

Unfortunately the neoliberal left forgets that there is a segment of our population who live instinctively and thus the only effective deterrent is the fear of death. Look at Europe, a driver like this will get his identity protected and released for good behavior in 5 years.
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Here's a pic from the scene of the accident taken by one of the passengers from the Honda that was hit from behind by the Tesla. That passenger says they were traveling at a speed of about 5 mph when they were hit, so it stands to reason that traffic was at a near stand still when the SUV came barreling up from behind at a high rate of speed and crossed into their lane. Here's an excerpt from a FB post of that passenger and his account of the accident:

"I almost died yesterday on the 405 Freeway because of a reckless, drunk driver. I was riding with XXXXXX and XXXXXX in a black Honda Civic, sitting in the rear passenger seat. We were coming to a stop in the carpool lane, riding 5mph, just chatting and listening to reggae. Then out of the blue, we hear a car honk right behind us, a loud crash, then in a split second, an even louder BANG came from our very own collision. Everyone in our car was fortunately alright. However, the family behind us was not. We look over to our left hand side to see a black Chevy Tahoe, completely Smashed into the Tesla that was originally behind us. Behind the wheel of the Tesla was a father that had blood all over the back of his head. Because of shock, the father was moving on autopilot, without any reaction on his face, attempting to save his two unconscious daughters, whom were pinned between the car seats and the Chevy Tahoe. One daughter behind the drivers seat was 7 years old, stuck next to her was her 13 year old sister. The drunk driver in the Tahoe was alive, physically unscathed, and frantically pacing back and forth. To our surprise, the CHP showed up to the scene no longer than 10 seconds from the horrific collision. Turns out they have been receiving reports and phone calls of a black Tahoe swerving in and out on the 405 freeway, and were already in the pursuit of the drunk driver. The CHP, Fire Fighters, and employees of MR. C Towing spent the next 15 mins trying everything they could to pry out the door and save the 2 little girls stuck in the Tessla. After pulling out their bodies, they said that the 7 year old girl did not make it. The 13 year old, although breathing, was still unconscious and was put into critical care. The father, which I don't think was even conscious during the entire ordeal, was placed on a stretcher and sent to critical care. I remember the drunk dunce behind the wheel of the Tahoe was being interrogated by the CHP right next to me, and was asked the question as to why this happened. The idiot says, "I was late and in a rush." He was cuffed, and was taken to jail.
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Romottola said: ?

Here's a pic from the scene of the accident taken by one of the passengers from the Honda that was hit from behind by the Tesla.
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I am chilled to the bone. I can't visit this thread any more. Peace to all.
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Romottola said: ?

Here's a pic from the scene of the accident taken by one of the passengers from the Honda that was hit from behind by the Tesla. That passenger says they were traveling at a speed of about 5 mph when they were hit, so it stands to reason that traffic was at a near stand still when the SUV came barreling up from behind at a high rate of speed and crossed into their lane. Here's an excerpt from a FB post of that passenger and his account of the accident:

"I almost died yesterday on the 405 Freeway because of a reckless, drunk driver. I was riding with XXXXXX and XXXXXX in a black Honda Civic, sitting in the rear passenger seat. We were coming to a stop in the carpool lane, riding 5mph, just chatting and listening to reggae. Then out of the blue, we hear a car honk right behind us, a loud crash, then in a split second, an even louder BANG came from our very own collision. Everyone in our car was fortunately alright. However, the family behind us was not. We look over to our left hand side to see a black Chevy Tahoe, completely Smashed into the Tesla that was originally behind us. Behind the wheel of the Tesla was a father that had blood all over the back of his head. Because of shock, the father was moving on autopilot, without any reaction on his face, attempting to save his two unconscious daughters, whom were pinned between the car seats and the Chevy Tahoe. One daughter behind the drivers seat was 7 years old, stuck next to her was her 13 year old sister. The drunk driver in the Tahoe was alive, physically unscathed, and frantically pacing back and forth. To our surprise, the CHP showed up to the scene no longer than 10 seconds from the horrific collision. Turns out they have been receiving reports and phone calls of a black Tahoe swerving in and out on the 405 freeway, and were already in the pursuit of the drunk driver. The CHP, Fire Fighters, and employees of MR. C Towing spent the next 15 mins trying everything they could to pry out the door and save the 2 little girls stuck in the Tessla. After pulling out their bodies, they said that the 7 year old girl did not make it. The 13 year old, although breathing, was still unconscious and was put into critical care. The father, which I don't think was even conscious during the entire ordeal, was placed on a stretcher and sent to critical care. I remember the drunk dunce behind the wheel of the Tahoe was being interrogated by the CHP right next to me, and was asked the question as to why this happened. The idiot says, "I was late and in a rush." He was cuffed, and was taken to jail.
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And here's what the Dad who was driving the Tesla posted in response to the passenger's detailed account of the accident:

Don Geddis I'm the dad that was in the Tesla. Thanks to XXXXX for posting his story. I don't have any memories of the impact itself, or for some minutes afterwards, so it's nice to hear an eyewitness description about what was happening. I remember thinking that I might want to honk my horn. Perhaps, from Jeff's description, I actually managed to do it. I was discharged from the hospital yesterday (with a skull fracture), but my daughter is still in the PICU.
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Romottola said: ?

Here's a pic from the scene of the accident taken by one of the passengers from the Honda that was hit from behind by the Tesla.
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Looking at the new photo, the main cabin/rear seat area looks pretty intact. I am surprised by the outcome in terms of severe injuries in light of the appearance of the car and the fact that it was a rear impact (full disclosure I am an EMS and emergency physician so have seen my share of collisions and injury patterns over the years).
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As a father this is unimaginable. That picture is horrifying and seeing the picture of the drunk driver that killed this mans child makes it that much worse. So sorry for your lose.
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Echoing many others, it sends chills down my spine. As another father of two young children who are frequent passengers, also a midnight silver metallic Model S...I can't even begin to fathom the emotions. Prayers and condolences to the family. I know that after reading this thread last night, I hugged my 4 year old a little longer last night.
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This makes me sick. I'm so sorry, Don.
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Yet another dad of two young boys here.

What you are going through is incomprehensible. It's a parent's greatest fear. Wishing you the strength to carry on and hoping your elder daughter recovers.
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DFibRL8R said: ?

Looking at the new photo, the main cabin/rear seat area looks pretty intact. I am surprised by the outcome in terms of severe injuries in light of the appearance of the car ....
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From the pictures of the Tesla after it was loaded on the flatbed, it appears to have not been hit squarely. The compression on car's structure on the passenger side rear was past the mid-line of the rear wheel-- quite substantially more intrusion than what the driver's side rear experienced. Which is makes sense if you consider that the truck was reported to have swerved from roadway to the right of the Tesla, that it would have hit the rear at an angle to that corner of the Tesla.

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This thread just makes me VERY VERY VERY sad. I was resisting leaving a comment since I had nothing I could say to make things better.

But .. I am hoping the few words I write here may cause a behavior change in some of us. Even if it does in one of us, it's still a win.

Looking at the facts,
The suspect Adam Kanas, 36, had a prior DUI conviction. He was on probation.
Now he may get 41 years to life - assuming his slime bag attorneys have a soul and conscience left in them.
He was probably having a great time drugging, knowing it was a risk and a bad idea, but he thought it'd be OKAY.
Seconds later he is looking at jail for rest of his life. Not to mention the hurt he caused to others who had nothing to do with this.

So ....

1. One brief mistake can completely ruin your entire life.
2. One brief mistake can completely change the life of many, who had the judgement to not make such a mistake.
3. Be careful people. Many of us are sensible enough not to drink and drive, but stats show texting and driving is just as bad.

So, don't be stupid. Don't do it. Be careful. Think about who you may hurt, and if you are too damned self centered, is that text or drink or distraction or show off in your ludicrous worth being behind bars for rest of your life? Or being injured or maimed?

I say this, as another fellow Tesla owner, was doing something incredibly stupid with autopilot. Seriously, all I ask of you is, don't be stupid on the road, please.
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My condolences to you and your family Don.
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Don Geddis said: ?

I appreciate all the expressions of sympathy. I did not have rear-facing trunk seats. My daughters were in the normal second row, with their seat belts on. At the time of the accident, my car was stopped on the freeway (as was the traffic ahead of me). I believe the car that rear-ended me was traveling at roughly normal highway speeds.
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I lost my mother recently and I imagine losing a daughter could only be worse. I'm sorry.

I hope your car's seatback wasn't involved in your daughter's death. There's been a lot in the news lately about automakers failing to make front seats safer for back seat occupants in rear-end collisions.

Auto safety experts demand NHTSA action on seatback failures - CBS News
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I have read few threads over the years that have evoked a tear in the eye, but this is one of them.

Condolences to Don and his family for this unspeakable tragedy. Words are not enough.

I can only hope that asap, additional safety measures are implemented across the board - for example, speed governors for vehicles driven by DUI offenders would seem reasonable, not to mention mandatory breathalyzer interlocks.

I doubt all cars on the road will have collision avoidance features in my lifetime, but every single thing we can do in the meantime is the essence of a moral imperative.

This thread should be mandatory reading for every auto industry executive, engineer, and lobbyist. Not to mention for all legislators. Annually.
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Don, my condolences to you and your family. My thoughts and prayers go out to your older daughter for a speedy recovery.
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As the father of three girls, I can't even comprehend what this father is going through. So, so, sad. It makes my heart break and all the more tragic since it was so easily prevented by simply calling a cab. We all know when we get in a car after drinking we risk killing someone. It's the same as firing a gun into a crowd. I hope he spends a long, long time bars contemplating what he did to this poor family.
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This is tragic. But looking at the car makes me question the wisdom of the rear-facing seats. I remember one reason for not putting a wayback seat in most cars is that is the crumple zone. Looking at this picture confirms this. Will the reinforcement that comes with the rear-facing seat be strong enough?
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mdobin said: ?

This is tragic. But looking at the car makes me question the wisdom of the rear-facing seats. I remember one reason for not putting a wayback seat in most cars is that is the crumple zone. Looking at this picture confirms this. Will the reinforcement that comes with the rear-facing seat be strong enough?
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I'm not sure that there is any standard passenger car that could have done better in this horrific collision. The Tahoe had it's bumper above the Model S bumper and over-rode it. If the bumpers were aligned, maybe this would not have ended so tragically. The optional rear facing 3rd row seats are not the issue.
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As I sit reading this I have tears streaming down my face and my heart aches for you.

I too lost a daughter (infant) many years ago, so I understand how difficult this time must be for you.

My prayers for you and your family.
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teslamotorclub

Thứ Bảy, 14 tháng 1, 2017

Very sad... Fatality in a Model S on the 405 part 1

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