Jun 12, 2012
bonnie That's what I use for my Roadster - plenty of time to fully charge while I sleep, even when I come home with a low SOC (state of charge - you'll see that acronym a lot on this forum). Added benefit, when we did a small music event here, the various musicians were thrilled to have the outlet for powering amps, etc.�
Jun 12, 2012
Bardlebee Nice! Yeah I plan on installing solar panels as well so I may have to look into the possibility of it charging my car. Though I most likely will restrict it to my houses energy as I don't think it would be able to handle both.�
Jun 12, 2012
Discoducky I'm expecting the cost to install 14-50 in my garage to be no more than $200 based on what others have said and I don't think it will require a new breaker box.�
Jun 12, 2012
kevincwelch The cost is not substantial.
I received two quotes to upgrade the interior electric with a new 100 amp subpanel, a 40 ft conduit to our detached garage, a 100 amp garage subpanel, and NEMA 14-50 plug (50 amp) for about $1700.
The plug alone is inexpensive.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2�
Jun 12, 2012
ElSupreme Well running copper a good distance can be expensive. But if your plug is near your breaker panel it shouldn't be that costly. Wire will probably be at least half their material cost (even if your plug is about 10' from your breaker panel.�
Jun 12, 2012
widodh Yes, copper is expensive!
I needed 20m (60ft) of 5x 6mm2 cable to my garage, that was EUR 400,00 worth of cable! That's excluding the extra breaker and other materials.�
Jun 12, 2012
bonnie Yep, my installation was closer to $700 - but I had the plug installed in the garage about as far away from the breaker box as possible. I'm just that way.
Seriously, it's in the perfect spot for me - center column between the two garage doors. I can easily plug in my Roadster no matter which side I park on, back in or pull in. And easily reached by people parking outside (or musicians needing the outlet).�
Jun 12, 2012
Tommy I see Tesla is recommending the wall mounted connector vs the mobile connector if your daily commute round trip is over 80 miles. The 80 miles seems low given the mobile connector can charge 31 miles/hour and most utilities offer low rates for at least 5 hours of off peak charging. I would like to know why 80 miles was chosen vs 100 or even higher.�
Jun 12, 2012
jkirkebo You bought from the wrong place
<�240 from here:
http://elby.no/Kabel-og-Ledning/PFXP-Kabel/PFXP-kabel-500V-CU-5G6-0mm2-MR-OE-18-0mm-Hvit-met�
Jun 12, 2012
heems I have a Nema 10-50 plug in my garage. I don't see that on the new charging page (which btw I find very helpful). I am guessing I need an electrician to convert it to a Nema 14-50?�
Jun 12, 2012
strider Yeah, I have a 6-30 which isn't listed on the Model S page. Here are the Roadster adapters: Universal Adapters - Available in North America Only (charging) Tesla Motors
I'm hoping they have the same for Model S. Though it won't be too much trouble to change the 6-30 out for a 10-30.�
Jun 12, 2012
kevincwelch Yes...they'll have to rewire it I believe. NEMA 10-50 is a three wire (hot-hot-neutral) and isn't grounded. NEMA 14-50 is four wire (hot-hot-neutral-ground). I believe there is a 10-30 adapter for the Roadster, possibly Model S.�
Jun 13, 2012
Tommy I hope it's not faux pax to answer one's own post; however the site now shows over 100 miles daily round trip commute as Tesla's recommendation to install the wall mounted connector. That mileage makes a lot more sense.�
Jun 13, 2012
Trnsl8r They can heeeaaar youuu....�
Jun 14, 2012
Arnold Panz So I was excited to call Solar City to ask them about setting up my HPC, and possibly getting solar panels on my roof (after all, I live in the "Sunshine" State). I went on their website and under "States" it lists the places Solar City operates. Here is the complete list:
Arizona
California
Colorado
Connecticut
Hawaii
Massachusetts
Maryland
New Jersey
New York
Oregon
Pennsylvania
Texas
Washington D.C.
Is it just me, or does this list seem small? What percentage of reservation holders actually live in states where Solar City has operations? And, even if technically they list "Texas", do they do everywhere in Texas, or are they just in one or two big cities?
I'm curious to hear what others in non-Solar City states plan to do -- I will probably look for my own electrician because it seems like all Solar City would be able to do for me would be to refer me to someone in Florida, and I'd have no idea how they'd select someone.�
Jun 14, 2012
Citizen-T Yeah, I know. I keep checking back every so often to see if they are in NC yet. If it is any consolation, they are growing extremely quickly. I'm sure that getting a presence in all 50 states is high on their priority list.�
Jun 14, 2012
jerry33 I don't know about the small towns in Texas, but I called them to see what they would do. In Texas you have two options:
1. Pay the entire 20 year lease up front.
2. Purchase the equipment. (No one does this with Solar City as far as I know).
So for me pay $8000+ to save 40% of my $150 to $250 electric bill didn't seem worth it. I'm not sweating the coal because I have the wind power option (even though it's somewhat of a scam).�
Jun 14, 2012
Andrew Wolfe That works out to about a 7% return on your $8000. Better if electric rates rise over the next 20 years. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me these days.�
Jun 14, 2012
jerry33 But that's also about 9% of the amount I need to purchase the Model S. I was hoping that there would be a pay as you go or with a smaller amount down. The Solar City website indicates they have plans like that, so that was the expectation that was set. Those plans aren't available in Texas.�
Jul 5, 2012
gg_got_a_tesla Just entered into a contract with SolarCity to get a NEMA 14-50 outlet installed in my garage. As my main panel is 100A-capable and is neatly located on the outside of the garage wall where I need the outlet to be, SolarCity deemed it a simple enough install that'd not require a main panel upgrade. The cost is $450. Had I needed a main panel upgrade, it'd have been $2,650!
The whole process was straightforward:
- Sent an email to [email�protected] and got a call back from a rep who took down some initial info including about which Model S battery pack I'm going for and estimated car delivery date (I said early November).
- The rep then sent out a simple fill-in-PDF survey that asked some questions about the install location, the main panel and the sub-panel.
- I returned the filled-in survey by email along with pictures of the panels, the 100A breaker switch and the garage itself.
- At a time of my choosing, had a followup call with a specialist who had reviewed the survey and the pictures. We talked about daily commute distances and agreed that a 14-50 rather than an HPWC was good enough or me. The specialist gave me the cost estimates on the phone and followed up with an agreement by email (for an install without upgrading the main panel) that I could e-sign. This agreement had estimated install date ranges that are about 3 weeks out as of today.�
Jul 5, 2012
JohnEC That's pretty interesting. I contacted SolarCity too and went through the same process as you did. I figured I would get a reasonable price from them as they did my solar panel install and electrical panel upgrade a couple years ago. They came back with a quote for $750 for an outlet less than 20 feet from the panel. I wasn't too happy with that so I got another quote from a local electrician at $649.
I ended up doing it myself for about $125 in parts and wire form Home Depot. It was a pretty easy job. Working with the #6 wire (hard to bend) being the toughest part.�
Jul 5, 2012
gg_got_a_tesla Strange! Zipcode-driven quotes?!
Don't have the stomach or the skills for doing it on my own; will plod on with SolarCity...�
Jul 6, 2012
JohnEC
Maybe, but I can't imagine Concord being much different from Newark. If they had quoted me the $450, I never would have considered doing it myself.�
Jul 6, 2012
Rifleman I had my 14-50 outlet installed a few months ago. I had an electrician at my house installing some new lighting, and figured while he was here, I might as well take care of the Model S too. The total to have it installed was about $250, but I did not have a long wire run (about 10 feet from the box to the plug). For my needs, the 14-50 is the perfect outlet, no need for a HPC.�
Jul 6, 2012
artsci I'm ready: New Tesla S and Chevy Volt Outdoor Curbside Level 2 Charging Station
![[?IMG]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/blogger_img_proxy/AEn0k_tR9dk_7MjoBhZmN_B_o-3J6O6A-7hW8wLRIDihq4ygLGzMXB2OBTCUeJ6zSxR3MXrI-nQgH9Gtdtk-XegjPRmha0H3y688eyPUQCCA_t_Mpon1Mpqf4WSG5Geum7AQ2wOKh3-mSe6ju2U=s0-d)
�
Jul 6, 2012
MikeK I'm just finishing a home remodel, and since I knew the Model S was coming, the electrician wired my RAV4-EV charger with fatter-than-required wire. When the Model S arrives, it will be a simple matter of swapping the old charger for a HPWC.�
Jul 6, 2012
Longhorn92 I am in a non-Solar City state (Illinois) and e-mailed [email�protected] to see what they said. They referred me to their preferred electrician in Illinois (Mr. Electric). I haven't yet received a quote but will. I also plan on getting a couple quotes from local electricians.�
Jul 6, 2012
Arnold Panz Good to know. Let us know how it goes. I'm curious to see if Solar City's referrals are competitive and reputable. In Florida it's always questionable when you hire someone to do this type of work so I'd love to have a quality recommendation, but I have no idea how Solar City would have selected these preferred electricians in states they don't operate.�
Jul 6, 2012
gg_got_a_tesla Angie's List may be worth tapping into?!�
Jul 6, 2012
MarkR With excess solar PV capacity at home and at the office, plus 50amp NEMA 14-50 outlets in both settings, I'm happy and ready . . . now I just need the car!�
Jul 7, 2012
Sousaphil
Nice! I'm having Solar City evaluate my roof for panels. I like their option for buying power from them. They retain the ownership and the maintenance risk of the panels, I get cheap, clean power!�
Jul 7, 2012
MarkR Good move! There are some clear advantages to renting the panels from SC (or another vendor), but you might want to check out the tax and rebate implications of ownership.
This website may help: DSIRE - Database of State Incentives for Renewable Energy - Arizona Solar Center - Your Guide to Solar and Other Renewable Energy Sources in Arizona
PM me if I can be helpful.�
Jul 19, 2012
efusco Out here in the Missouri boonies I also had no Solar City service....but today I got a call telling me that they're going to start servicing this area soon and that I would be able to get service installed prior to my Model S arriving ! He was a bit evasive on details, but said they were finalizing agreements with a local service & promised a call back with more info next week.
This is exciting news, would Love the option of PV power!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD�
Jul 19, 2012
Liz G If you have Ameren you may want to check out their incentives. We are getting a 9kW system, which costs $35K but after all the rebates and tax credits only going to cost a net $2k.�
Jul 19, 2012
efusco We're in a coop, not Ameren.
Would like to hear what all credits and rebates you got though as I'm not aware of any Missouri credits.�
Jul 19, 2012
xhawk101 Amazing the lack of options here in the sunshine state! I am putting in nema 6-50 outlet myself but would love leased solar option.�
Jul 19, 2012
brianman Arnold's post was on 06/14.
Today is 07/19 and they have added:
- Delaware
- Washington
�
Jul 20, 2012
Robert.Boston The Tesla UMC supports NEMA 15-50, so that would be a better choice for your installation.�
Jul 27, 2012
Vger We are not yet committed to getting the new HPC, but I want to at least know really what we would be dealing with (the spec sheet is "light" to say the least!), so I emailed the customer support team and got this fairly prompt response:
�
Jul 27, 2012
brianman I'm not sure whether I'd prefer to have the HPWC installation before or after I get the vehicle. If I get it installed before, then ideally all home charges on my vehicle are via the HPWC from day 1. If I get it installed after the vehicle arrives, then the installation can be tested with the actual vehicle. Does Tesla provide or recommend some way of verifying the installation of the HPWC?
Seeing some of the threads in the Roadster sub-forums about certain vehicles not working well with specific chargers has me somewhat concerned.
Perhaps Roadster owners can provide some insight.�
Jul 27, 2012
contaygious Tesla told me to install a NEMA 14-50. Is that still the best choice for the travel cable?�
Jul 27, 2012
Jkam I just installed a NEMA 14-50 240V/50A outlet in my garage. On Tesla's webpage it suggest getting the 14-50. FYI, it cost me $560 in cash to my electrician to install the outlet about 20 feet from the panel.�
Jul 27, 2012
Vger Most of these problems have to do with 3rd party J1772 charger incompatibilities. Apparently, there is enough "slop" in the standard that issues are possible. I have never heard of (or had) a problem charging from the Tesla-approved equipment.�
Jul 27, 2012
ChadS I'm another Roadster owner that just put a 14-50 outlet in my garage. Like Bonnie, I had 'em put it on the center post for flexibility. In fact I put two, because I have two EVs. The total was about $550 including the new breakers and the 30' of wiring from the corner of the garage.
I didn't buy an HPC. I just leave the mobile connector plugged in to the 14-50, and use that to charge. When I'm leaving on a trip, I unplug it an stick it in the car. Pretty simple and cheap. Although I will say that if I leave really early in the morning, or get back really late at night low on charge and want to charge the car right away, it would be kind of nice to have a spare mobile connector so I could pack/unpack it at my leisure while always having one plugged in.�
Jul 27, 2012
Vger From my Roadster experience, I would say yes, a 14-50 is fine. The resulting 40A supply is plenty to charge the car overnight, even with an 85 kWh battery. Really the only justification for having the dual chargers and the HPC are if you expect to be hosting lots of other Tesla owners. :wink:
[This is meant as a reply to contaygious, forgot to quote their message]�
Jul 27, 2012
brianman Ok cool. That allays, somewhat, my concerns about compatibility / reliability.
Question still remains: How do you test the HPWC itself without a vehicle though? Put another way -- How do I avoid having to risk a 2nd visit by the electrician (when the vehicle arrives)?�
Jul 27, 2012
Andrew Wolfe $600 for mine. Had to go up and around a double garage door with conduit - so probably 25'.�
Jul 27, 2012
Andrew Wolfe When my J-1772 EVSE was installed, the electrician had a tester. If you use Solar City, they may have one for the HPWC.�
Jul 27, 2012
solar powered Jkam, Andrew:
Do the both of you already have 200 amp service to your house? I have a 200 amp overhead line, but the utility meter socket cabinet is only rated at 125 amps. I've had two electricians give me informal estimates of $2,000 to replace the utility meter socket.�
Jul 27, 2012
Jkam Yes I have 240V/200amp service to the meter.
Upgrading from 125 amp to 200 amp will cost more.�
Jul 27, 2012
cinergi You probably won't need to upgrade if you just do the NEMA 14-50. I had 100 amp service and was charging at 40A plus running central air and whatever else in the house.. never an issue. Now, if you're charging, running an electric stove and an electric dryer and the AC at the same time, then yeah, maybe. But you can also just not do that :smile:�
Jul 27, 2012
strider Yes because that is what you'll find at RV parks/campgrounds if you find yourself needing to charge there.�
Jul 27, 2012
solar powered cinergi:
I forgot to mention that I have a 100 amp main circuit breaker panel off of my 125 amp meter socket. No licensed electrician will connect a NEMA 14-50 outlet without upgrading my meter socket.�
Jul 27, 2012
cinergi Oh, just the meter socket? Interesting. I have no idea what mine was (I've since moved to an apartment complex). Seems strange that a meter socket which is rated more than the panel would still be classified as insufficient!�
Jul 27, 2012
mitch672 They have to do a "load calculation", based on what appliances are connected to the service... At least, they are supposed to�
Jul 27, 2012
Andrew Wolfe I have 200A service - but I already have a J1172 EVSE wired in. 50A was all I could add. The house has a 100A subpanel, but the AC, the EVSE, and the dryer are separate. I added a 14-50 to that as well, but they would not add a 100A circuit for the HP charger.
Make them do the calculations. You may be able to add 50A to that panel depending on what else is on it.�
Jul 28, 2012
solar powered Hi cinergi:
Actually, it's additive--I have a 100 amp main panel and I need to add a 50 amp sub-panel to supply the NEMA 14-50 outlet. Both would be supplied by my 200 amp overhead cable drop and my 125 amp meter socket box. 100 + 50 > 125, thus the need for a new meter socket. It could be worse--my co-worker had, to pay quite a bit more to upgrade his underground cable.�
Jul 28, 2012
Andrew Wolfe It is not additive. There are code calculations that are performed. They do not allow for everything to be turned on full blast at once since that never happens.
I have a 40 EVSE circuit, a 50A 14-50, a 60A subpanel for the AC, a 100A subpanel for the house, and a 30A dryer circuit all on a 200A panel and it is within code.�
Jul 28, 2012
digitaltim $650 for the NEMA 14-50 50A installed between the garage doors - 30' foot run in conduit from a 100A sub panel - house overall has two 200A panels since it is all electric.�
Aug 13, 2012
gg_got_a_tesla The SolarCity installers got the job done today while working through some minor challenges posed by the relative locations of the external sub-panel, the PV system inverter that I already had and where I wanted the NEMA 14-50 outlet to be (a third of the way towards the front of the garage just in case I want to back in). They had arranged for the inspector from the city of Newark to come in as well and sign off on the installation. Good job, SolarCity!
Not as pretty as the Tesla HPWC but, blends right into my unfinished garage wall
�
Aug 13, 2012
contaygious Just did my Nema for 500 flat. I thought it was pretty good til I read someone here doing it for 250!�
Aug 13, 2012
Super Gizmo I have a Charge Point charger mounted outside the garage. The Charge Point requires a J1772 connector which comes with the car but it takes longer to charge the car. Since I sold my Volt I am having the Charge Point removed, changing the 40 amp circuit breakers to 50 amp and having a Nema 14-50 receptacle installed outside the garage.
I wonder if the supplied connector cable will work in rain - plugged into The Nema 14-50 receptacle out in the elements.�
Aug 14, 2012
VolkerP GG, I had to use *ahem* advanced image enhancing technology on that black box.
I think the SolarCity installers know what they do when they install the NEMA 14-50 upside down?�
Aug 14, 2012
Odenator Thanks to the previous owners of my new house, I have a NEMA 6-50 plug located almost exactly perfect to charge a Model S. Now, other than to avoid having to have both a 6-50 and 14-50 adapter (to charge at RV parks) for the UMC, is there any other benefit to having a native 14-50 plug verses leaving my current 50 amp plug in place?�
Aug 14, 2012
markb1 That's the normal orientation for NEMA 14-50 (ground prong at the top), and presumably the mobile connector is designed for that orientation, such that the cord runs down the wall. Not sure why Leviton would put their logo on upside down, but they did.�
Aug 14, 2012
gmontem The mobile connector is designed for that orientation.
http://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/downloads/mobileconnector_1450_summarysheet.pdf�
Aug 14, 2012
Todd Burch Speaking of which, I've been having a hell of a time trying to get my 14-50 receptacle finished, and I need some advice. After wiring it up, the wires are so stiff that I can't properly get the receptacle into the junction box. I initially left the wires long and coiled, which enabled me to get the receptacle in the box but I had to bend those wires pretty tightly and I was worried about heat buildup or cracking of the insulation (due to the small radius wire bending). Then I tried shortening the wires, but they ended up being so stiff that I couldn't get the damn receptacle into the box.
That Leviton box looks pretty nice. Does anyone know if it's designed such that it's easier to get the wires into the box without requiring a major effort of strength and wire bending? Any general advice for how to get the receptacle to more easily fit in the junction box would be appreciated. After running the wire and getting the panel all set up, I'd hate to have to call in an electrician just to wire up the outlet itself, but I'm headed that direction. Should be cheaper since much of the work is done, but if anyone can offer advice I'm all ears!�
Aug 14, 2012
Lloyd
Here is something that may help.�
Aug 14, 2012
Tommy I faced the same problem trying to "stuff" the wiring into the junction box.
I went with an RV style outlet box such as this at HD
50 Amp Temporary RV Power Outlet-U054P at The Home Depot
For my transition junction box going from attic wire (romex) to conduit I used a 6"x6"x4" junction box also from HD.
I quickly discovered that using #6 wire requires a large junction box: Here are two sites to help you understand the size needed:
Box Fill Calculations | Code Basics content from Electrical Construction and Maintenance (EC and M) Magazine
CM | Box Fill Calculations
I came up with needing at least a 42 cu. inch size box. Note: The top picture is my junction box, it's size is 144 cu in. I have no idea how one fits an outlet and wiring in a box sized at 42 cu. in.
P.S. I changed the outlet to a hubell as I thought it better quality which required me to modify and enlarge the plate hole a little bit.�
Aug 14, 2012
gg_got_a_tesla Sorry about the washout; it was quite a bright day and that's the best that my poor iPhone camera could do.
Yes, as gmontem pointed out, SolarCity is in sync with Tesla on the ground-up orientation. And, to cater to the impending demand from would-be Tesla owners in the SF Bay Area (there were 30+ 14-50 install orders just in the past week), SolarCity has apparently opened up a separate office up in Berkeley (as opposed to their Foster City HQ) to take care of these installs and any followup support. They were already backed up by about 3 weeks in install time when I put an order in. I'd urge Bay Area folks to contact SolarCity soon if you are planning on going with them and if you are going to get your Model S by the end of this year.�
Aug 14, 2012
AndyM I installed my shiny new 14-50 outlet in the wall this weekend for $40 (yes, forty dollars) in parts (free labor) + permit fees.
�
Aug 14, 2012
mitch672 You must have free wire as well, I only bought 20' of 6/4 and spent a total of about $100 for the SquareD 2 pole 50A breakers, wire, the Leviton 14-50R receptacles, boxes and cover plates... Of course I installed 2 sets of them, but one is right below the garage new 125A subpanel (18" of wire)
BTW at Home Depot, it costs less to buy 6/4NM (which contains (3) #6 conductors [red/black/white] and (1) bare #10 for ground), than to buy the equivilant in THHN, which is what I normally would have used for 3/4" SCH40 PVC... I just removed the outer jacket to make pulling the wiring into the pipe and making it easier to pull around the sweeps.�
Aug 14, 2012
AndyM My run was under 5 feet from the panel, and that was nearly 50% of the cost of the project. The longer you go, the more expensive it gets, and fast. I'm lucky my panel is near the corner of the car with the charge outlet.�
Aug 14, 2012
Super Gizmo I saw on Home Depot link for this RV connector that it was weather resistant - meant for outdoor installation. Is the Tesla supplied connector cord weather proof? Can you plug into this outlet outside in rain?�
Aug 14, 2012
jerry33 Normally the ground is at the top. It's interesting that Leviton made the Industrial Grade 061-55050 with the ground on the bottom.�
Aug 14, 2012
Robert.Boston Yes, you can plug in the UMC in any weather. Certainly, RVs do so! And I've confirmed with Tesla that the UMC can be operated outdoors in all weather.�
Aug 14, 2012
Super Gizmo Thank you, Robert.�
Aug 14, 2012
mitch672 This is what I have outside of my garage, for EV guest charging:
50, 30, 20 amp Surface Mount RV Power Outlet Box - RV Park Supplies
�
Aug 14, 2012
Jrhodesmd I was warned today by my rep to install a 14-50 and not to rely on my HPWC being available when I take delivery of my car. Evidently they are having some problems and it is currently not available. This hopefully will only affect those sig holders and will get worked out by the time gen production comes around.
Also a little disappointing, it is no longer going to be the color of your car - they will all be brushed aluminum....�
Aug 14, 2012
aviators99 How do you guys know the amperage of your drop line, meter plug, and breaker box? Is there a trick, or do I need to get an electrician out?�
Aug 14, 2012
MitchL It's usually labelled right on your main breaker. So, a 200A panel would have a big 200A breaker on it, and smaller breakers feeding the circuits in the house.
It would be highly unusual for your main drop line to have a higher capacity than your breaker panel, particularly for overhead lines. Sometimes they'll oversize your main breaker a little for direct burial, but that's not common.
Your electric bill also most likely has an indication of your service level.
/Mitch.�
Aug 14, 2012
Doug_G It would be pretty trivial to change the 6-50 plug to 14-50 and be done with it.�
Aug 14, 2012
brianman News! First I've heard of this. Wonder how long before they update the pictures:
Model S Options and Pricing | Tesla Motors
Charging Model S | Tesla Motors
�
Aug 15, 2012
spatterso911 Well, I've finalized plans with SolarCity for PV install. I spoke with a rep today, working on the details for the HPWC and a 14-50 plug. I'm thinking ahead, since a Model X is coming later on.
They are swapping my 200A box out for a 225A box. I already have 2 subpanels, one in the garage, one in the backyard.�
Aug 16, 2012
contaygious That hpwc does look pretty bad ass, but I'll take 60 inch oled tv instead and save some money�
Aug 16, 2012
Charged_Up You can get an extension box to fit over the standard box to give you more depth - that 's what my electrician did- and it was even harder for him because I overspecced the wiring so I could install higher amperage than a nema 14-50 later if I wanted to. Don't have one now, but pm me yor email and I'd be happy to shoot you a picture...�
Aug 16, 2012
Charged_Up You can get an extension box to fit over the standard box to give you more depth - that 's what my electrician did- and it was even harder for him because I overspecced the wiring so I could install higher amperage than a nema 14-50 later if I wanted to. Don't have one now, but pm me yor email and I'd be happy to shoot you a picture of my setup...�
Aug 17, 2012
dmunjal I already have a Leaf and am getting a Model S. Are there any benefits to combining them into a single outlet?�
Aug 17, 2012
spleen How would you charge both with only 1 outlet? We are planning on having 2 EVs (Leaf (currently own) and Model X) and are planning on putting in 2 x 14-50 outlets on two separate 50A breakers.�
Aug 17, 2012
dmunjal I already have a dryer outlet that I use with an EVSE upgrade for my Leaf. What I meant to ask is if I could use this for the. Model S or will I need another outlet.�
Aug 17, 2012
mcornwell Yes, you could unplug your EVSE and plug the Tesla UMC into the dryer outlet (I assume you mean a NEMA 14-50 receptacle), or if you don't mind slower charging, you can plug the EVSE into the Model S with the J1772 adapter that the Model S will come with.�
Aug 17, 2012
spleen I think it depends on how many miles you plan on driving. A dryer outlet is normally 30 amps rated, which works out to 24 amps continuous draw. That's approximately 18 miles/hour in recharge speed for the S. If you plan on driving 54 miles/day, you could recharge that in 3 hours and then switch out the cord to your Leaf EVSE and finish recharging the Leaf overnight. Personally, I'd be worried that I would forget or there would be an occasion where I'd need both cars charging at the same time, so I think it's safer to have 2 outlets, 2 circuits but if you think that you can make it work, it's certainly possible to do it with just the one dryer outlet.�
Aug 17, 2012
dmunjal I also have a 120v in my garage and my EVSE works on both. I could charge the Model S with the 240 and swap the Leaf from the 120 as needed. Both cars will be driven about 60-80 miles a day and I'll have the cars there at least 10 hours a night. I'm trying to use the existing receptacles as much as possible without having to call an electrician.�
Aug 17, 2012
spleen Then that should definitely work. I'm still doing all my Leaf charging on 120V with the Nissan supplied EVSE.�
Aug 17, 2012
Super Gizmo I am keeping my Charge Point charger (I had installed for a Volt I sold) outside the garage wall and going with Solar City to install a weatherproof Nema 14-50 outside the garage next to the Charge Point for $450 plus any permit fees. A local electrician quoted $255 to replace the Charge Point with Nema 14-50 but I decided to keep the charger and pay a little more to go with Solar City. The main supply panel is within 10' and is rated 400 amps. They will have to move some breakers because all slots are full. I have two AC units and a 5.2 kw solar system taking up some of the slots. There is a sub panel in the pantry for kitchen appliances and some other outlets in the house with several open slots but it is too far from the outside of garage wall.�
Aug 23, 2012
Morristhecat Darn!
I had the electrician over today to install my nema 14-50 box. The car won't be here until the spring, but since he is working on other stuff, we figured he may as well do this. Any way, we had previously checked that there is room on my breaker panel (which is pretty old) prior to him getting all the parts he needs. But now that he is opening up the breaker panel, there isn't enough room amongst all the wires already in there to install this big fat new wire! He tells me that there is absolutely no way to make it work. My only option is to get a new breaker panel with more room inside it! What rotton luck! A breakout box apparently won't do he tells me. Anyone else run into this?�
Aug 23, 2012
contaygious My breaker box was too small as well so my electrician just ran a dedicated line directly from the source instead.�
Aug 29, 2012
teslasguy I'm installing a 100 amp line from my basement panel to a 100amp subpanel in the garage.
The I'm running a 50amp line from the subpanel to the back of the garage (garage entrance) where I'm having a 50amp 14-150 NEMA outlet installed.
This will give me all I need plus provide easy access for installing another 50 amp outlet if my wife gets an EV.
It is about a 45' run from my basement panel to where the subpanel will be installed in the garage, and then about another 30' run from there to where the NEMA outlet will be installed.
Quote from Solar City was $1400. Quote from my normal electrician was $1060.
Getting this quote from Solar City wasn't easy. The rep is swamped and took vacation in the middle.
Overall about two weeks for final quote from Solar City.
But more than anything I just don't like the impersonal, cookie cutter style of Solar City.
They never came to my house to see first hand what I want, and the project description in the agreement they emailed me isn't at all what I described, even though the rep's email was fairly on target.
I'll be going with my regular electrician.�
Sep 1, 2012
chmod a+wrx It's interesting how that works out.....
I talked to 4 electricians about what it would cost me to do the upgrades....three of them came to my house and all gave me quotes that were within $300 of the other.....the one contractor who didn't come to my house and asked me a series of questions over email quoted me almost twice what the others quoted.....
I think sometimes you just need a more personal service and for someone to actually come out and scope things out!!!!�
Sep 1, 2012
wycolo Take a photo of your service box with the cover off. It'll almost be as good as being there. I've been looking at service boxes for (scribbles on back of envelope) 55 years- gaak!! We'll have fun 2nd guessing your guy!!
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Sep 3, 2012
Morristhecat Ok wycolo, here is a photo of my box with the cover off (somehow it rotated 90 degrees left).
The electrician says that the mess of wires at the bottom (right) is why I can't install the wire into this box. There are some physically large breakers that can be replaced with physically smaller ones, so there is room in the panel amperage wise to install the new wire, but not space wise. I am thinking rather than bring the big fat wire in from the bottom, why not bring it in from the top(left) or the side(top/bottom)? If a smaller ground wire needs to go into the bottom, that should squeeze in there somehow, shouldn't it? He went ahead and wired in the nema 14-50 to my parking stall, and brought the fat wire to my box, but hasn't tied it in. I want to figure this out first, and perhaps hire a different electrician if it will save me $2k on installing a whole new breaker box. Thanks.
contaygious - What is a dedicated line direct from the source? Are you having to install a whole new breaker box and wire from the pole?�
Sep 4, 2012
Lloyd You have 6 full width breakers. You have room in the box if the panel has the capacity with your other normal usage. I'd say find another electrician and get another opinion.
Lookign again at the photo, you have a relatively light gague aluminum wire feed. This may only be a 50 amp subpanel and be at or over it's capacity already.�
Sep 4, 2012
jed-99aggie Had an electrician out today. SolarCity does not operate in Houston, so their recommended partner Mr. Electric was out for the quote.
Electrician confirmed that my main panel had ample feed and capacity for a NEMA 14-50 outlet. With the main feed lines inside the box, it may even be possible to support the HPC if I was interested (unconfirmed was if the wire from the meter back to the transformer was heavy enough). If not sufficient, it would require digging and laying new wire all the way back to the transformer (the ballpark quote was $3100 in case anyone wants a comparison).
My job seemed fairly straightforward. To install the NEMA 14-50 on the opposite wall of my garage, on the pillar between two garage doors (~30' run 6 AWG) and the 50AMP breaker I was quoted $640. There was possibly some conduit, two access panels for in-wall access, as well and roughly 2 hours of labor.
I recall reading a few jobs posted here in the <$300 range. Was your wire run that much shorter, say just a few feet? Was the wire run done completely inside the wall or did you have the job completed with conduit?
Has anyone else found any other points of consideration in selecting the location of the outlet? Between the two garage doors seems like one of the most flexible locations.
Thanks for your thoughts and continued input.�
Sep 5, 2012
bbmertz I received a quote from Solar City today for a similar simple outlet installation in the Los Angeles area. $750 for installation of a 14-50 NEMA outlet, a 50 amp breaker in an existing panel and running a 25' line from the panel to the outlet at the back of the garage. Quoting process was done quickly and professionally over the phone after I emailed an EV survey specifying my requirements and current electrical setup, along with photos of the breaker panel and outlet location in garage. I was quoted a slightly lower price by a local electrician, but am likely to go with Solar City given their partnership with Tesla and likeliness to stand behind their work. I was immediately emailed a contract to sign, but am delaying doing so until I am ready for installation closer to the end of the year when my Model S is hopefully delivered.
Note that the quoted price excluded county permit fees (for which an estimate was not immediately available, but may range from $75-$200). Is it typical to have permit fees added on top of the work estimate?�
Sep 5, 2012
gg_got_a_tesla @bbmertz, SolarCity didn't charge extra for the city inspection for the 14-50 install in my garage last month. It was all done for the $450 that they quoted initially; I had just a few feet worth of cord run btw. My review and pics are a few posts up on this thread.
I'd encourage you to go ahead with the install sooner than later. There was a 4+ week lag between when I signed the contract and when they could schedule the installation. OTOH, summer's usually a busier period for them than Fall...�
Sep 6, 2012
neroden Morris -- get an electrician who's willing to rearrange the wires in the box. There aren't *too many* wires, they're just arranged suboptimally.
This is a tedious process (all the lights will go out...) and will take many hours of high-paid electrical work, but you'll end up with a cleaner box.�
Sep 6, 2012
wycolo > here is a photo of my box with the cover off [Morristhecat]
As Lloyd said!
Looks like its fed with 4ga Alum wire good for 55 Amps max!!. You need new wire feed from meter & a new 200 Amp box which will provide much needed elbow room. This setup is below marginal; time to enter the modern age.
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Sep 14, 2012
neroden Ooh, right. I didn't notice the small aluminum feed. Bad. Look to see if that's actually a subpanel (is there a main panel hidden away somewhere else?)
If not, be aware that buyers will avoid buying your house until the electrical service is upgraded; I, for instance, rejected a house because it had only 50 amp service. It really is very substandard nowadays, and you can find a lot of stuff on the web saying "don't buy a house with less than 100 amp service".
This is something worth fixing *regardless* of whether you're getting an electric car, assuming you own your house and have substantial equity in it; it will both make you happier and increase the resale value immediately.�
Sep 21, 2012
johnnyS Southern California Edison has lower rates if we install a second meter for car charging. Has anyone installed a second meter to take advantage of lower rates?�
Sep 22, 2012
dsm363 A second meter was talked about a little here but not sure if this is the information you're looking for or not:
Time-of-Use Service VS Standard Service dilemma for Los Angeles DWP?�
Nov 13, 2012
PureAmps I just wanted to give a shout out to Solar City. I posted this earlier on the TM forums:
Solar City just installed a NEMA 14-50 outlet in my garage today (SF Bay Area). The work was performed by a very friendly and professional crew and at a very good price. They showed up on time, got the job done quickly and even did a thorough job cleaning up after themselves. I think my garage was cleaner after they left!
Here's a shot of my new "gas pump":
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Nov 16, 2012
GenIIIOwner What options do I have for any EV if it would stay outside and never be in my garage?�
Nov 16, 2012
Robert.Boston NEMA 14-50 plugs are regularly used at RV parks; there's no reason you must be in a garage to use one safely to charge your Model S.�
Nov 16, 2012
strider If you'll always park in the same place (like your driveway) then I would get the HPWC and have it installed on a pedestal. This is the most expensive option but is the cleanest. Otherwise you could have a 14-50 in an outdoor enclosure installed (like Robert was saying) and you could leave the UMC in your trunk and plug it when you get home.�
Nov 17, 2012
GSP I would not plug and unplug a 14-50 every day. The plug and socket are not rated for 10,000 mate/unmate cycles like the J1772 connectors (and presumedly Tesla's proprietary connector). I also would recommend turning off the breaker when plugging or unplugging a 14-50. RV park enclosures have the breaker right next to the plug to make this convenient.
I agree an HPWC is the best solution for an outdoor installation. If you use a 14-50 and UMC instead, I would leave it plugged in most of the time.
GSP�
Nov 17, 2012
Robert.Boston Considering that I can replace a 14-50 receptacle for under $14, I'm not too concerned about wearing one out! I can buy a lot of those for the cost of an HPWC.�
Nov 17, 2012
GenIIIOwner Yes, but if I buy a car with dual on board chargers am I able to take use of them with NEMA 14-50? What cord and/or how would I connect the car to the wall?�
Nov 17, 2012
Cottonwood I agree that the 14-50R is inexpensive and is easy to change, but do put some value on your time to do the change. There is also the plug side of the 14-50, but that is even easier to change and you can get that from Tesla. If I were to do this, as mentioned earlier, I would get one of those weather proof RV park enclosures with a built in 50A breaker. On those dark and stormy, wet nights, it would give me peace of mind to turn off the breaker before I made the connections.�
Nov 17, 2012
ElSupreme You will be able to charge your dual charger car just fine. But the NEMA 14-50 plug would limit your charge rate where it wouldn't matter if you had dual chargers or not. You need an EVSE to fully take advantage of the dual chargers. Either the Tesla HPWC or other 100A 240VAC EVSE.�
Nov 17, 2012
cinergi Just be aware that even tho you can replace the plug cheaply, you won't necessarily know when it has broken down past the safe point - e.g. Heats up and sets fire to your house.
I left my roadster UMC plugged in on a live circuit at all times except a major snow storm (mostly so I could snow thrower it) - I lived in an area where I felt comfortable leaving it out. Could maybe find a way to lock the cord down if that's a concern.�
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