Thứ Năm, 26 tháng 1, 2017

Model S Prototype part 1

  • May 9, 2011
    Grunky
    Went to the Seattle Tesla dealership to see the Model S prototype on tour.

    The Model S Design Prototype Tour: Seattle, WA | Events | Tesla Motors

    Here's my impressions

    - This car is WIDE
    - ~4200 lbs - yikes. Combing that with brake regen - the back tires are expected to last ~10k miles, which is similar to the Roadster. Ugh.
    - Brembro brakes were recommended for those with the 300 mile bat pack. Why? The extra weight just begs for more braking power.
    - Prototype had the same tire sizes on the fronts as backs - Alpha and beta will have different size tires
    - The prototype had near zero leg room in the back seat. They mentioned the Alpha and beta will have more leg room. I sure hope so!
    - Tesla is scheduled to open a satellite sales store in Bellevue, WA "soon-ish". The Seattle Tesla dealership will be predominately for service.
    - Upgrading the battery pack will add ~10k per upgrade. So ~57k for 160, ~67k for 230, and ~77k for 300 mile battery pack
    - After 8 years the you loose ~5-10% range per year
    - I'm _VERY_ concerned about the interior. In much the way the Roaster had a cheap interior, history is repeating itself. Its very bland and the leather looked cheap. With so many people geeking out over the 17 inch monitor the aesthetics/creature comforts of the cabin are left profoundly underdeveloped.
    - Panoramic sun room was really cool
    - Retractable door handles we're covered with fingerprints!!! Normally this would NOT be worth mentioning, however if your CONSTANTLY showing them off because they're retractable - thats the first thing people will notice.
    - The red/cinnamon color is ... well ok. Color is very subjective.
    - repeated charging from a 440V charging source WILL damage the battery. 220V is strongly recommended for everyday charging.
    - doors looked very think and heavy

    The biggest buy question I had was "If Tesla was able to quickly iterate with the Roaster - why shouldn't I wait till 2015/2016 when the Model S 1.1 or 1.5 is out?" I got the response of "We've learned alot from the Roaster and we'll get it right the first time around".

    Overall the big picture was really encouraging. However, polishing needs to take place. Hopefully the Alpha and Beta runs will address. Totally support early adopters, but for me, I'm gonna wait until Tesla has learned from few years of 'S' production under its belt before committing.
    �
  • May 9, 2011
    AnOutsider
    Sort of off-topic, but I'm surprised they're still ferrying this thing around given that it's essentially out of date.
    �
  • May 9, 2011
    Todd Burch
    -With respect to the interior, I wouldn't be concerned. I suspect the final interior will look very little if at all like the prototype. After all, it IS just a prototype. It's mainly meant to showcase the exterior of the car and infotainment screen--everything else was likely just temporary "filler". Plus, the prototype used a Roadster battery/PEM and a Mercedes chassis...so you can't judge interior room from it at all.

    -I'd be very surprised if the tires only last ~10k miles. I suspect we're looking at something closer to the target lifetime of other tires in its class, like the BMW 5-series. The Model-S is NOT a supercar like the Roadster. I think 10k life for tires would kill off a lot of customers...and don't think Tesla will make that mistake.

    -My expectation was that Brembo brakes were standard...but that's just conjecture.

    -Regarding the comment "After 8 years the you loose ~5-10% range per year" that sounds like hogwash. If the sales folks told you this, they are misinformed. You'll start losing range on day 1--although granted it will not start out at a high rate.
    �
  • May 9, 2011
    Adm
    There is a video on youtube which shows the interior of the prototype and it doesn't seem cramped at all. Also, everything on the interior still seemed to be "under contruction", so I guess we'll have to wait for the beta version to see what Model S is really going to be like.

    �
  • May 9, 2011
    strider
    RE: tire wear. I'm just over 5k miles on my Roadster and my tires still look brand new. So YMMV.
    �
  • May 9, 2011
    Doug_G
    I had to replace my rears at 5k because they were bald. I interpret this to mean that strider isn't having enough fun.
    �
  • May 10, 2011
    strider
    That's what everyone keeps telling me but although I don't do any sport drives (just a commuter car so far) I do accelerate fairly often. I've given tons of rides to people at work and each time do at least 2 Performance mode standing starts. It's not a Sport and the AD07's are running at the higher "economy" pressures but otherwise they just seem to be wearing really well.
    �
  • May 10, 2011
    Doug_G
    Well your car, and your usage, sounds a lot like mine. I guess I just have a heavy foot.
    �
  • May 10, 2011
    clea
    and canadian asphalt ...
    �
  • May 10, 2011
    Doug_G
    Canadian asphalt is more abrasive?
    �
  • May 10, 2011
    clea
    I believe i read somewhere that there were some differences (i.e. using the concrete variety) to better handle the winter but if not i am sure it deteriorates faster because of the winters. But then again my impression could be skewed because i even think i feel a difference in the roads when i cross from the quebec side to the ontario side ...
    �
  • May 10, 2011
    clea
    now you got me thinking about the differences of asphalt surfaces and how they affect tire wear and i found this simple table (from Help and Tech Articles | Interco Tire) which shows the mileage estimate of 40000 mile rated tires when running on different surfaces ...

    Surface Type Miles

    Smooth Asphalt 40000
    Coarse Asphalt 36000
    Concrete 28000
    Extra Coarse Asphalt 24000
    Country Road 20000
    Crushed Stone 8000

    This begs the question of is there any way to find out the general surface type of asphalt in a region?
    �
  • May 19, 2011
    clea
  • May 19, 2011
    tomanik
  • May 19, 2011
    clea
    If you are from cowtown, I believe you should have gotten an invite to the private party for reservation holders. Check with your rep to see if you might still be able to make it ...
    �
  • May 19, 2011
    tomanik
    Yes one would normally expect as much however CRM still does not appear to be a strong suit of Tesla yet.
    �
  • Jun 6, 2011
    Doug_G
    Heading down to Toronto tomorrow for the Model S Owner's Preview of the on Wednesday. There's a similar event for reservation holders on Thursday.

    The regular display: The Model S Design Prototype Tour: Toronto, ON | Events | Tesla Motors

    This will also be my first Roadster road trip. Second leg will be interesting because it is close to the range of the Roadster at Hwy 401 speeds. Sure will be a lot easier when they get that HPC installed in Kingston.
    �
  • Jun 8, 2011
    Doug_G
    Just back at the hotel after the Owner's Preview. Hans, Sarah, Eli and Mark were there from Tesla. Met quite a few owners including Jaff, David, David, and Wendy (apologies for any names I forgot). I counted ten Roadsters in attendance, including the Toronto demo car - definitely the largest collection ever in Canada (there are only 50 or so). They lined up some Roadsters (including mine) on the grass at the front of the building. The demo car was doing test drives.

    The Model S prototype, of course, looks gorgeous. The front grille looks very similar to the latest Alpha pictures, with a grille at the top and plastic at the bottom... I wonder if they updated it?

    I asked about the charge port. The victim of my queries admitted that he knew where the port was going, but they weren't allowed to say yet. I guess they want to make a big announcement at some point. He did confirm that it was a proprietary connector, but he promised that "I would really like it". He said that J1772 doesn't support enough current for the fast charge capability. He did say the plug adapters would actually be adapter modules rather than cables -- that sounds very promising.
    �
  • Jun 8, 2011
    PopSmith
    That's good to hear. I guess that (unofficially) means they're changing the position from it's current location on the Alpha (and Prototype?) model(s).
    �
  • Jun 8, 2011
    stopcrazypp
    So they aren't going for a dual socket like the Leaf, but rather for a single proprietary socket. I wonder how similar it will be to the J1772 extension for DC charging.

    I wonder what kind of anti-theft measures they will have for the adapter (will the adapter fit under a cover on the car, will there be locking)?
    �
  • Jun 9, 2011
    widodh
    A adapter module seem fine with me as long as all connectors fit fine.

    Was there any word on 3-phase/IEC 62196-2-2 (Type 2/Mennekes) charging?
    �
  • Jun 9, 2011
    Doug_G
    Sorry, didn't think to ask as 3-phase isn't widely available in Canada.
    �
  • Jun 9, 2011
    KBF
    Seriously? When they said that there would likely be colors available only to Sig's I was assuming we'd have MORE options, not less, than general production. Where's my British Racing Green?? :O
    �
  • Jun 9, 2011
    richkae
    Wow only 2 color options for the signature Series? ( I don't count black and white, ugh and double ugh )
    That might make me drop my signature reservation and go back to the general production.
    �
  • Jun 9, 2011
    ckessel
    Just because you don't count black and white hardly means they aren't choices. Personally, I prefer black for my car color.
    �
  • Jun 9, 2011
    Doug_G
    More tidbits

    We've yet to see the final version of the grille, so the controversy can continue...

    The front grille is a strictly cosmetic structure, and in fact the "hated" dome on the early alphas is actually more aerodynamic.

    The smaller grilles at left and right are actually what are used for cooling. If the front grille really was a grille it would vent into the "frunk" (front trunk), which is why the real vents are located at the bottom.

    An observation:

    The grille looks nowhere near as large in person, as it does in the photos. This may be partly due to the low camera angle, and maybe wide-angle lenses. But seeing the car in person it doesn't look as dominant, mainly because it's down at your knees.
    �
  • Jun 9, 2011
    richkae
    I was being facetious, either 2 choices or 4 choices, when I think of the premium "fully loaded signature", I don't think "limited color choices"
    �
  • Jun 10, 2011
    Adm
    It makes sense that limited colors are offered. There will only be 2000 (?) Sig's made and Tesla will probably want them to be the same as much as possible to make production a little bit easier. This also a reason why P's with 300mi pack will follow. This way they can produce maybe 4k 300mi battery packs before having to worry about the other packs. Let's not forget they are starting up a completely new production facility.
    �
  • Jun 10, 2011
    Charged_Up
    95k?

    that might be a deal breaker for a few vs. 80ish previous indication.

    :eek:
    �
  • Jun 10, 2011
    smorgasbord
    I hope they find a way to reduce the glare on that 17" touchscreen. This is the second video I've seen that shows quite a bit of glare.
    �
  • Jun 10, 2011
    Doug_G
    I wouldn't take anything I heard as gospel, so let's wait and see.
    �
  • Jun 10, 2011
    mpt
    Sounds like a module might be something that is placed in the car behind the 'fuel flap' and has the socket on it so you can buy a module with a Tesla female, J1772, Mennekes, ChaDeMo, etc. and use DC, Single or three phase as available.

    Fingers crossed.
    �
  • Jun 10, 2011
    DaveVa
    Agree - I think that 95k would be way to high for a car that has a base price of 57k.

    Tesla has said that they can be profitable on the base model - it makes no sense to add 38k of options to make it "Signature" to what was supposed to be a well appointed car to start with. I know that battery pack is a 20k, but I had really hoped that that 20k was already a "package" upgrade not just the battery.
    �
  • Jun 10, 2011
    William13
    The uncertainty about price, color options, and options I may not like are why I have two reservations but will only keep one. The red is my second choice after British racing green. $95,000 is more than I feel ready to pay sight unseen. It is also more than my brother's Nissan GTR. The Betas better be incredibly good to justify this price. For 15k to 20k more than the general production it needs an awfully lot more than the previously announced special signage, exclusive colors, and being fully loaded.
    �
  • Jun 10, 2011
    ckessel
    Yea, 95k is a no sale for me. I was going to upgrade to the Sig, but on hearing that, I'm back to waiting. The original reports were in the $80k neighborhood, so that's a pretty big rise in price. Even if that was $80k after rebate and $95k before (so $87.5k after), that's still a significant increase. I'm also afraid of what that means for a fairly loaded regular model S. At a $77.5 base price for the 300 battery, I was figuring no more than $87.5 for a fairly decked out version.

    I'm getting a bit of sticker increase fatigue. First number is $57k and bigger batteries are more. I wasn't prepared for the amount of increase for the batteries, so going from 50->70k (after rebate) was a huge shock, a 40% jump for double the battery range. This latest Sig price rumor is yet another bump more than I expected.
    �
  • Jun 10, 2011
    Lloyd
    Remember that prices listed previoulsy were after rebates. So if the Canada and US price is the same it is likely not after rebates. So add rebates back to the base price for the US version, and you're back to about $10K of extras which is not outrageous. Let's see what they are going to include for this before everyone gets into a huff!!
    �
  • Jun 10, 2011
    Todd Burch
    I know most of us waiting for the Model S don't have much else but to jump on every bit of information that's passed out, but as Lloyd said, let's not get into a huff. I've heard so much conflicting misinformation from sales folks that it's dizzying. Unfortunately, we just have to keep waiting for the facts... cursing.gif
    �
  • Jun 10, 2011
    smorgasbord
    Yes, let's put this in perspective. The $50K car is $57K minus the $7.5K Fed tax rebate. If we consider the Roadster battery was rumored to be about $35K of the Roadster's cost, then another $20K, or 66%, for 87% longer range is pretty darn good. My guess is battery technology is getting better and cheaper, these things are lining up just fine.

    $57K + $20K is $77K, versus the $94K being bandied about for the Signature series. What might we get for that? Looking at existing Roadster options and what we know of the Model S, it's not unlikely that Model S options would include things like premium paint, the panorama sunroof, the rear facing seats, premium/executive leather interior, upgraded stereo/nav capabilities, solar glass, paint armor, and forged wheels.

    On the Roadster, premium paint is $2K, forged wheels are over $3K, executive leather is almost $8K, infotainment is $4.5K, paint armor is $1.5K, solar glass is $0.5K. That's almost $20K of options right there. And that's not accounting for the sunroof or rear seats, or that the Model S has a lot more leather area to upgrade, more glass to solarize, and more bodywork to armor. Things like paint armor may be options even on the Model S Signature, and apparently all Model S's include the 17" screen (but maybe not all the nav functionality, for instance), so this isn't nearly an apples to apples comparison, but I think it does show that $17K more for a fully decked out Model S is not only not outrageous, but perhaps is too good to be true.
    �
  • Jun 10, 2011
    Todd Burch
    Couple things to mention:

    1. A fully loaded BMW 550i is around $90k, I believe.
    2. I've been told by sales that they expect the sigs to be around $80-85k....so who knows?

    Roadster may not be a great comparison for pricing. Model S is mass-produced, Roadster is not. Roadster is a supercar, Model S is not (it's just a super car...). I can't imagine paying $4.5k for a sound system upgrade when the touch screen is already included in the base price. 3rd party alternatives would certainly be cheaper.

    Tesla has to be careful not to price themselves out of the majority of the luxury market and back into the supercar price range.

    Time will tell.
    �
  • Jun 10, 2011
    Doug_G
    "Module" was my word for it... they just said adapter. But they were clear that it is not a cable. As long as they don't cost a bomb this might be a very good way to do it.

    Interestingly they still won't say where the charge port goes. I think they want to make a big splash with it. Should be interesting.
    �
  • Jun 10, 2011
    vfx
    The Sig Roadster also had a special color. 40 percent of them sold were in that green.
    �
  • Jun 10, 2011
    PopSmith
    In my opinion it all depends on what's included at that price point.

    My examples might not be the best ones but the Porsche Cayenne ranges from $48K for a base model to $107K (before options) for a Cayenne Turbo. The Panamera starts at $74K and goes to $173K for a Turbo S (or $136K for a Turbo). Porsche probably sells a lot more Cayennes than anything else in their lineup and the majority of those are probably <$60K. What I'm trying to get at is as long as Tesla equips Model S with standard features for its price segment having a range-topping version available for those that want one (at ~$90K) shouldn't be much of an issue.
    �
  • Jun 10, 2011
    smorgasbord
    Fair enough. I just went to bmwusa.com and got these prices for upgrades on a 535i sedan:

    prem leather: $2450
    prem hifi+nav+park dist+rear camera+heated front seats+ipod connector: $4900
    prem paint: $550
    HUD: $1300
    panoramic moonroof+wood trim+autodim mirrors: $2100 (for an X5)

    I wouldn't be surprised if the 17" touchscreen effectively locks out options for 3rd party nav and sound head units.
    �
  • Jun 10, 2011
    ckessel
    Exactly, all those options totaled are ~$11,500. From the Model S base price: 57.5k + 20k + 11.5k = 89k. I've heard numerous times the Sig, after rebate, is about 80k and 89k before rebate is fairly close to that. 95k before rebate isn't. I've also heard tell, I think from Roadster owners(?), that the Sig package generally is slightly cheaper than if you got all the options separately. All of which makes me wonder what all is involved in the 95k number.

    I'm hoping 95k is just a misstatement. As Todd said, that's getting in the super car range, not the Infinity/BMW/Lexus market. Comparing it to the Porsche doesn't work. Tesla has said an EV car in the Model S range is comparable to a ICE car $10-20k less in price due to EV effeciencies. Comparing the model S to the Porsche $60-100k is comparing to the wrong niche when considering the EV vs. ICE price adjustments.
    �
  • Jun 10, 2011
    vfx
    Price also reflects exclusivity. Some might say it is price-less.
    �
  • Jun 10, 2011
    cinergi
  • Jun 11, 2011
    PopSmith
    Please forgive me if I'm misinterpreting your post. Yes, over the life of a car, an EV is going to be much cheaper to own. That is very much a fact and of no need for discussion, really. That being said I don't think someone buying a $50K+ vehicle is too concerned about that. When it comes to comparisons, off the top of my head the only $30-$40K cars that might be cross-shopped with Model S are an Acura TL or TSX, both of those vehicles are in the $35-$45K range.

    Regardless, Tesla will probably sell more base (or nearly-base) Model S' than anything else. This is simply due to the fact that when prices are lower more people can afford it. In other words, even if the Signature series Model S turns out to be $90K+ it shouldn't affect sales much so long as they keep the base Model S at $50K post-credits/rebates.

    As for the Porsche comparison, I just picked them because their cars vary greatly in price for even a single model. What I was getting at is that adding a 300-mile pack alone to a base Model S is a 40% cost increase. Porsche does something similar with packages that increase performance and I haven't read many complaints about that practice. :redface:

    This is definitely true. However, limiting the number of Signature series cars automatically makes it exclusive, even if the price wasn't much more than that of a "base" Model S. In my opinion the reason for the Signature models being high priced is two fold. First, they are fully-loaded (AFAIK) and, second, Tesla might be trying to grab a bit of extra cash from "early adopters" with the Signature series (note: that's pure speculation on my part).
    �
  • Jun 11, 2011
    gg_got_a_tesla
    To give a rather crude analogy (with an automotive bent!) from another industry, the Acer Ferrari laptops (recently, the Ferrari One) are priced at a level way higher than the sum of their parts, primarily for the branding and exclusivity. There is indeed a market - albeit limited - for such products. And, Tesla isn't doing any injustice to the Clooneys and Dicaprios of the world that are now ready to trade in their roadsters for something that they could haul the family(?) in ;-)

    To each, their own, I suppose. Personally, instead of the Sig, I'll take the base Model S with the 160 mile pack plus a Nissan Leaf, thank you very much :-D
    �
  • Jun 11, 2011
    widodh
    Could you do us Europeans a favour? Ask again about IEC 62192-2-2 (Type 2) and 3-phase charging?

    About the price, converted to Euro's I guess a Sig would be somewhere around 70k, pretty reasonable imho, a luxurious 5-series costs the same here (due to taxes).
    �
  • Jun 11, 2011
    cinergi
    Added to my list. BTW, how do you pronounce Mennekes?
    I'm having trouble finding information on that connector/plug (I don't see it on the Mennekes site). Do you have a link to some information about it?
    I suspect they won't know the answer, so I want to be as informed as possible about it and maybe even pass along a link or printout or something.
    �
  • Jun 11, 2011
    ckessel
    You'd be very mistaken, at least in my case. Price is a big factor and I do my research. I know a lot of software folks that could afford something like this, but they're like me and run the numbers and weigh pros and cons. There's a non-trivial number of detailed oriented people like me that do think about ICE vs. EV and what's a comparable car with that taken into account.
    �
  • Jun 11, 2011
    Norbert
    Yes, I'm sure there is a large number of people who would usually not spend that much money on a car, but would be willing to do so if they can expect to later get some of it back due to savings in gas and maintenance. These would otherwise wait for a more affordable Tesla or a larger range Leaf, before switching from ICE to EV.
    �
  • Jun 11, 2011
    smorgasbord
    For these very speculative guesstimates, $6K is well within the margin of error. We don't even have an options list for the car. For instance, the ones I listed that you refer to don't include the rear facing seats. That's $1700 more on the BMW X5. And, so now we're down to about a $4K difference, which is in the noise.

    Tesla needs to find the sweet spot for pricing - too high and they won't sell enough, too low and they won't make enough money on each. I know I'm not qualified to perform a proper market analysis, but there are smart people who do this thing for a living. Any of them here?
    �
  • Jun 11, 2011
    widodh
    Men-ne-kus, but that's how it's pronounced in NL.

    The full information about the plug: IEC 62196 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    It 'talks' EVSE as well, just like the J1772 plug, except the fact that the "Type 2" plug supports 3-phase, which is the standard in Europe. I just walked over the local market here, spotted 4 3x32A (22kW!!) sockets which are being used by the market for cooling and heating.

    Some pictures of the plug:
    * http://zooi.widodh.nl/ev/mennekesplug.jpg
    * http://zooi.widodh.nl/ev/tech/charging/VDE-AR-E_2623-2-2.jpg
    * http://zooi.widodh.nl/ev/tech/charging/mennekes-ev-plug-300.jpg
    * http://zooi.widodh.nl/ev/tech/charging/banner07-evbox-mennekes.jpg

    Last picture: L1, L2 and L3 == The three phase connectors

    In general, the plug supports 1-phase 63A or three-phase 63A, although the current available plugs go up to 32A.

    More information about three-phase electricity: Three-phase electric power - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    As Europeans we simply want a three-phase charger in the Model S, otherwise we'll be limited to 32A :(
    �
  • Jun 11, 2011
    Doug_G
    You shouldn't draw any firm conclusions from any of this; I'm told several of the items are very much up in the air at this point. As has been pointed out by others, if you talk to different people at Tesla you often get different answers! We'll have to wait on a formal announcement.
    �
  • Jun 11, 2011
    widodh
    True :)

    I think that is the major downside now, the lack of information.... We all want to know what kind of charging the Model S will support, 1-phase/3-phase/DC, who knows? But we should just keep 'hammering' on Tesla, hopefully they'll release this information soon.
    �
  • Jun 11, 2011
    stopcrazypp
    Keep in mind Tesla plans to be profitable mainly through the options. I think they said they have to average about $75k for the Model S to make a decent margin and become a profitable company (and much of that margin will likely have to go paying off loans, administrative costs, and also the stores/rangers). That means there has to be a significant amount of cars that cost more than $75k if they ever hope to average that much.

    As for the charging port, it would be most ideal if they implement an early version of J1772 DC (or something similar). It sucks that an adapter is still required even though J1772 is already adopted. Although they still have international concerns (supporting Mennekes in Europe), so the adapter may end up the cheapest/most flexible option.
    �
  • Jun 11, 2011
    dsm363
    Is the adapter supposed to be a fixed (but removable with tools) part of the car? If it's something that Tesla can switch out in the field for different uses and countries, that wouldn't be that bad as long as it fits under the charge door and gives us both level 2 and 3 charging either through one or two ports.
    �
  • Jun 11, 2011
    Lloyd
    http://shop.teslamotors.com/collections/charging/products/j1772-connector
    �
  • Jun 13, 2011
    PopSmith
    I don't think that is known at this point. My guess is that you are correct, it will anchor into the charging port and is only removable with the correct tools. I don't think we'll know for sure until much closer to Model S' launch, however.

    When Doug spoke with someone at Tesla they said it wasn't a cable, though. My guess is that Tesla found (or is working on) a way to shorten and combine the plug ends. Kind of like this HDMI-to-DVI adapter but for J1772 and Tesla's proprietary connectors.

    �
  • Jun 14, 2011
    Doug_G
  • Jun 14, 2011
    Doug_G
  • Jun 14, 2011
    Jaff
    Hey, the BuzzBuzzHome company car looks just like mine!

    Wait a minute...that license plate looks familiar...:biggrin:
    �
  • Jun 14, 2011
    Doug_G
    :eek: You better check your garage!
    �
  • Jun 15, 2011
    BuzzBuzzHome
    D'oh. It must have just been a dream!! But in all serious, one of the founders of BuzzBuzzHome is thinking about an electric car (currently owns a hybrid). He loves the S-type, but needs a new car sooner than next year.

    Any suggestions?

    Awesome looking car! Love it in white.
    �
  • Jun 15, 2011
    Jaff
    Thanks! :smile:

    I'd rent a jalopy until the Model S is ready...anything else available in the current EV market won't come close to a Roadster nor a Model S...a bit of patience now would reap major satisfaction in the long term imo...

    �
  • Jun 15, 2011
    BuzzBuzzHome
    Thanks Jaff! Much appreciated. I for told him your comments.
    �
  • Jun 15, 2011
    ckessel
    If he wants a nice car, I imagine there are 12-18 month leases available. Or, he could just buy a good used car, like an Infinity or some such, and sell it when the Model S comes out.
    �
  • Jun 17, 2011
    mnx
  • Jun 17, 2011
    PopSmith
    Thanks for the pictures, they look great. Also, I noticed the plate isn't a manufacture plate but it doesn't have month-and-date stickers which means it isn't (legally) being driven on public roads. :confused:
    �
  • Jun 17, 2011
    Doug_G
    They're not driving it. They're trucking it around. It only drives under its own power to get it inside the building.
    �
  • Jun 18, 2011
    PopSmith
    That makes sense with being "just" a prototype, I still find it interesting that they would stick a plate on it since it's only a prototype (and isn't driven on the street).
    �
  • Jun 19, 2011
    TEG
    That original proof-of-concept demonstration prototype was apparently based off a production car (e.g.:Mercedes) chassis, so the plate could be real, and registered to the original vehicle.
    I may be legal to drive it as simply an EV conversion. But the lack of registration stickers perhaps suggests otherwise.

    I think we have seen that same car sometimes with manufacturer plates driving on the street. But, yeah, they don't seem to drive it a whole lot. One of a kind probably never to be replaced.
    In any case, we have seen evidence that they swap plates on that vehicle from time to time.
    �
  • Jun 20, 2011
    mpt
    Isn't that 'The' prototype? Used to be white, used to be a Merc before it went under the knife? Has a roadster battery and power train welded into a hole underneath, has the VDS in the center arm rest?

    I'm fairly sure there'e only one. We could always mount a 'prototype' watch :)
    �
  • Jun 20, 2011
    qwk
    The white one had no drivetrain/interior. It's in a museum now. The grey one had a roadster drivetrain and got repainted red.
    �
  • Jun 20, 2011
    TEG
    Yes, as QWK said.
    The White 'roller' was the one that went into the Autodesk design museum.

    The Silver/Gray -> Red one has been used to give some selected test rides, but seems more relegated to static display duties now.

    With Alphas and soon Betas on the Road, I think its' job is nearly done.
    �
  • Jun 20, 2011
    Doug_G
    After the final (South Florida) stop on the tour, it is going to a museum.
    �
  • Jun 20, 2011
    EV_de
    no european stopover ?
    �
  • Jun 20, 2011
    Doug_G
    You really think they're going to fly it over?
    �
  • Jun 20, 2011
    vfx
    Don't forget the ill concieved- giving it to an EV friendly reporter waaaay too early.
    �
  • Jun 20, 2011
    TEG
    Yes, of course Mr. Neil tends to tell it like it is.

    What does he end up saying in "Revenge of the Electric Car?" (Aside from "going to lose his shirt" comment in the trailer.)
    �
  • Jun 20, 2011
    vfx
    Has anyone here on TMC seen the film?
    �
  • Jun 20, 2011
    dpeilow
    Why not? The white one came over to Frankfurt in 2009.
    �
  • Jun 20, 2011
    clea
    wouldn't it be better to wait a couple of months to do a tour with driveable betas instead?
    �
  • Jun 20, 2011
    TEG
    Tomsax at least...
    �
  • Jun 21, 2011
    mpt
    I saw the film at Tribecca.

    Dan Neil opens and closes the film; one good quote goes something like "Regular cars are like a bittersweet treat, I still love them but I know that I can never own one again."

    The quote about Elon loosing his shirt was out of context... on purpose, Dan Neil was quoting others.

    See the film if you can, there's a fantastic bit at the beginning where the whole audience gasps, one of those communal, 'Did he really say that?' moments.
    �
  • Jun 21, 2011
    mpt
  • Jun 21, 2011
    NEWDL
    Want to see the movie so bad... guess Akron, Ohio just isn't that big of a market LOL

    Waiting patiently........
    �
  • Jun 21, 2011
    mpt
    Autumn for the general release I believe. I have a quote of $8-10k for a TMC private screening. Let's all meet in Akron!
    �
  • Jun 25, 2011
    cinergi
    I went to the event today ... I may have to go back tomorrow because (long story) I lost the pictures and videos I took.
    Tesla's keeping the charging information close to their chests -- I couldn't get much information but I didn't talk to everyone about it.
    They estimated 150-200 people came through today. Pretty steady stream of people.
    The Model S is smaller than I thought it would be (pretty normal sedan size ... not like big boat 4-door). It's beautiful. But very prototype so really it just tells you about approximate size and what they're able to dream up for design -- and that tells me they're able to build a beautiful car.
    �
  • Jun 25, 2011
    woof
    Hey cinergi, I guess I missed you. I looked in the parking garage for that orange glow but didn't see one.

    The S certainly is beautiful. Seeing it "in the flesh" only increases the desire.

    --Woof!
    �
  • Jun 26, 2011
    dpeilow
    Wouldn't it be cheaper to just block book a regular screening?
    �
  • Jun 26, 2011
    doug
    But you'd have to wait all summer.
    �
  • Jun 26, 2011
    JRod0802
    I went to see the Model S prototype this morning in Boston. There were a couple of Roadsters outside, along with the Boston Tesla sales rep Don MacNeil. He's a great guy. I dropped your name, Cinergi, when talking to him (I hope you don't mind). He brought up your "Five Dollar Story" :)

    I asked about the status of the Betas, and I heard from one of the people there that the Betas are already in production (with a few of them having already rolled off the line), but the test-driveable Betas won't be out until this December. I didn't think the first Beta would be done until the end of the Summer. Maybe he was mistaken.

    Other than that, I couldn't really get any new information about the Model S from the guy I was talking to. I asked about the location of the charge port. The conversation went like this:

    Me: So that's where the charge port is, right? (pointing to charge port on the Prototype)
    Tesla Rep: Yup. I don't know where it's going to be on the final model, but that's where it is on the prototype.
    Me: You don't know, or you can't say?
    Tesla Rep: I can't say.

    So I don't know where it is, but now I can say that I know someone who knows where it is :)

    I also took a few pictures:
    Two Tesla Roadsters.jpg
    Very Orange Tesla Roadster.jpg
    Tesla Model S Prototype.jpg
    �
  • Jun 26, 2011
    Norbert
    Unless he meant he can't say whether he knows or not... :)
    �
  • Jun 26, 2011
    dsm363
    Are you sure you're not just quoting the movie 'Dave'? =)

    Dave: The president and the first lady... what is that? How long has that been going on?
    Duane: I can't say.
    Dave: You mean, you don't know, or "you can't say"?
    Duane: I can't say.
    �
  • Jul 22, 2011
    AnOutsider
    From: Model S: Designing the Perfect Endurance Athlete | Blog | Tesla Motors

    So I guess the light pipe tail lights are coming back... maybe that'll make it look less like a mazda (which are nice, but Tesla needs to stand on its own)
    �
  • Jul 22, 2011
    NigelM
    The Model S prototype is coming to Sarasota! :biggrin:
    �
  • Jul 28, 2011
    Arnold Panz
    Model S prototype coming to South Florida. Here are the details:

    Owner Sneak Preview in South Florida:
    August 6th / 9am - 12pm

    South Florida Open House:
    August 6th - August 9th / 10am - 6pm
    Tesla South Florida
    1949 Tigertail Blvd
    Dania Beach, FL 33004

    Miami Open House:
    August 11th - August 12th / 10am - 7pm
    August 13th - August 14th / 10am - 4pm
    Wachovia Financial Center
    200 South Biscayne Blvd
    Miami, FL 33131

    I'm not sure how there's a "sneak preview" for owners from 9-12 on Saturday and the "open house" starts at 10 am the same day, but it's great that it's going to be in the store for 4 days, and then even better that it's getting 4 days in downtown Miami. The Wachovia (n.b., shouldn't it be Wells Fargo now?!) Financial Center is the heart of downtown Miami and most of the big law firms, bankers, hedge funds etc. are either in that building or within walking distance of it. Having it there (I presume either in the lobby or just outside) is a great way to garner a lot of publicity with a lot of well-to-do potential Model S buyers.
    �
  • Jul 28, 2011
    AnOutsider
    Seeing a car that'll be at least twice-removed from the final version :(

    I still think this is all unwise.
    �
  • Jul 28, 2011
    Arnold Panz
    Perhaps, but most people have never heard of Tesla and/or the Model S, so to see something that's 90%+ like the final production version and gets more name recognition for Tesla among the demographic that they're trying to attract I think is a good thing. Only car junkies will notice the minor differences, and they/we are already well aware of Tesla and the Model S. This is trying to draw attention to people who don't know the first thing about Tesla.
    �
  • Jul 29, 2011
    AnOutsider
    Fair enough, you make a good point
    �
  • Jul 29, 2011
    gg_got_a_tesla
    Yes, indeed. Some of my fellow supposedly "in-the-know" techies here in Silicon Valley still seem to think that Tesla's upcoming successor to their Roadster (that they do know about) is going to be more like a golf cart! I've had to show them the proto's pics and give them several reference points (such as its size that's comparable to a BMW 5-series and so on) to convince them. So, yeah, seeing is believing for many folks!
    �
  • Jul 29, 2011
    Slackjaw
    Agree completely on that - we were at the event in Princeton last Saturday and two things struck me above and beyond the beauty of the prototype and all the "inside TMC" stuff on this thread:
    • For most of the attendees, these were the first electric vehicles they had ever seen up close. Some were Prius owners, none I spoke to were EV owners unless you include Roadsters, and I think I only met one other Roadster owner. Bear in mind this was not the owner preview but the mass market paperback version of the event.
    • The event was 50% Model S preview and 50% Roadster ride & drive (& sales). There were two demo cars there and they were getting pretty heavy use for test drives. I saw a lot of Tesla Grins on people getting out of them! I parked ours right next to the two demo cars because it looked cool but sort of regretted it when people started to crowbar the doors because they thought they were stuck (really, it was just locked). Having said that, it was great to be able to share my love of this car with some interested potential owners face-to-face.
    I also gave a few test rides (not test drives) to strangers while I was hanging out there, as it wasn't very busy but the setting was beautiful for driving around. After the event I went to visit a few friends in the area, let them drive the car a bit, and (as a result of their heavy feet) had to go back for a charge. I had the treat of seeing the proto-S driving around the parking lot a little bit while they were maneuvering it for charge on site. It was nice to see it actually driving a bit on electric power. They only plugged it into a 110. Then we had a ten minute mini Roadster Rally as I drove with the demo cars to a generous owner's house to charge from his HPC and his NEMA 14-50 (in parallel). Took a few pictures, nothing exactly ground-breaking but I'll try to edit a few of them into this post a bit later.
    �
  • Jul 29, 2011
    shark2k
    @Slackjaw: I wanted to go to that but I had a prior commitment. Sounds like it was a good time and I would have loved to go.

    -Shark2k
    �
  • Aug 3, 2011
    NigelM
    The prototype will be coming to the Sarasota Yacht Club on August 20-21st. It's right around the corner from my house; PM me if anyone needs to find a charging station (I have a NEMA 14-50 socket if anyone needs it).

    Sarasota City offers 4 free L2 charging stations at the municipal multi-story car park on Palm Avenue - They are ClipperCreek J1772 points powered by a rooftop PV array. You will need your Tesla adapter there.
    �
  • Aug 19, 2011
    NigelM
    The prototype arrived in Sarasota today. There's probably nothing for me to add to the thread in terms of comments now but.......It's a gorgeous car and even if the design has developed along the way it's beautiful enough to want one immediately! :biggrin:
    �
  • Aug 21, 2011
    benji4
    Just got this from an email from my mom who is in Las Vegas now... Kind of amusing! Wish I could get a chance to see it....

    "Oh, I forgot to tell you an interesting thing I saw. Just as we were getting ready to leave the Circus Circus RV park for good, a covered trailer that said TESLA on the side pulled by a Town & Country or something with Calif. license plates pulled into the site right beside our motor home. The man then opened the side and back doors of the trailer. I saw an amazing black car inside and asked about it. He said it is the "Next Generation" Tesla that will be available to the public next year. He said he brought it to test drive in downtown Las Vegas because of all the stop and go driving here. I said it was very beautiful and said I hoped he wouldn't get any dents in it!!! (I told you how scary the traffic is here. I'm getting used to it though. One just has to sprout eyes in all sides of the head and drive defensively.)"
    �
  • Aug 22, 2011
    marco2228
    This is picture from the invite for the test drive event.
    The front looks different.
    bottom3.jpg
    �
  • Aug 22, 2011
    roblab
    Yeah, just guessing, but it's probably the Beta. Looks like the Alpha with more finish. NOTE that the picture does not show charging port! :)
    �
  • Aug 22, 2011
    NigelM
    It's under the tail light, mystery solved...see the other thread
    �
  • Aug 22, 2011
    Todd Burch
    The more I look at it, the more I think that fog light vent is Photoshopped...
    �
  • Aug 22, 2011
    TEG
    Actually I think the whole picture is just a rendering. They have some nice rendering software... Almost looks real.
    �
  • Aug 22, 2011
    Todd Burch
    I think you may be right TEG. Everything looks a little too clean and pristine.
    �
  • Aug 22, 2011
    gg_got_a_tesla
    Most probably is. But, if it's not true to what we are going to see on Oct 1, won't we all throw a hissy fit?! ;-)
    �
  • Aug 23, 2011
    Doug_G
    Hmmm... maybe the cars at the event will be renderings, too... Tesla has invented the holodeck!
    �
  • Aug 23, 2011
    gg_got_a_tesla
    That one can ride in?! ;) Beats Star Wars for sure!
    �
  • Aug 23, 2011
    Kevin Harney
    Holodeck was actually Star Trek :)
    �
  • Aug 23, 2011
    vfx
    Fake.

    No dirt, scratches or reflections. Dull surface. All that of course could be done in "cleanup" on a white cyc photo shoot car but there is a certain lack of weight in the suspension, or tires.

    Also missing things that make a car real world like a valve stem, window joint paint, grill surface warping/reflections and Todd's observation.

    A good look at the wheel is the best tell.

    Nice lighting though.
    �
    • Người đăng: vào lúc

    Không có nhận xét nào:

    Đăng nhận xét

    Đăng ký: Đăng Nhận xét (Atom)