Thứ Ba, 3 tháng 1, 2017

Model 3 Notchback Trunk - Deal-Killer? part 2

  • Apr 3, 2016
    Tigr2003
    I also would prefer a lift back design for practicality. But this is NOT a deal breaker for me.

    My main reason for reserving and eventually buying a Model 3 is the fact that I will no longer be paying for gasoline. And no longer be held hostage by the oil corporations. And not adding CO2 to the air, etc. That's reason enough to me.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    DaveVa
    I think this would be a great option to offer. Power lift gate option for those that want a Model-S type back end.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    eye.surgeon
    Do you have a panoramic roof? have you read about the technology Tesla uses in the panoramic glass? And FYI the solid roof in Model S isn't steel o_O
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Oxxyyd
    I totally agree. Tesla should really rethink the hatch solution or risk loosing a lot of European customers.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    doublejj
    Tesla will have 1mil pre-paid deposits buy the time they go into production....I don't think it will be an issue for quite awhile. Europeans better adjust to trunk living if they want a model 3.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Tennisballer

    Neighbour does and I have taken many trips in it I know it is not steel it is aluminum which dissipates heat even better than steel. The R value on glass is never going to be as good as a solid object not in today's technology. Imagine if your house was filled with skylights it would be insanely hot. The best Windows for houses still let in more heat than the solid parts of the house. The solid roof reflects the sun the glass roof lets it in if you don't understand that then I don't know what to say lol.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    yesup
    Not going to happen. Elon has just confirmed that the current design is to improve headroom for the rear passenger.

    Elon Musk on Twitter
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    stopcrazypp
    Yeah, as I mentioned, based on the chassis model shown in the presentation, it is unlikely there will be a surprise hatchback version of the Model 3 in "part 2" unveiling. This type of comment confirms it. However, I do hope they make the trunk opening larger.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    DrManhattan
    Is this sarcasm? I don't understand what you're asking.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Weezer Fan
    FYI...looks like the rear seats will fold down.
    Screen Shot 2016-04-03 at 3.42.09 PM.png
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    DaveVa
    Seats will definitely fold down. Otherwise the "fitting a surf board" that was mentioned at the reveal would not be possible.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    NeverFollow
    That's right, but there is a fixed horizontal metal shelf under the rear windows
    limiting the trunk volume even if the back seat is folded down.

    For example, you will not be able to put a dog box,
    and inserting a bicycle will be a very difficult task.

    Having a hatch like the Model S would have been much more practical.
    I think this will be a deterrent for many people, especially in Europe where the majority of car are midsize hatchback..

    [?IMG]
    [?IMG]
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    DrManhattan
    There will be a hatch back in the future, but not now. Whats all the fuss about? They're not going to suddenly change their mind and make it a hatchback, and that is not what the majority of buyers want. Patience....
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Ulmo
    I think:

    * Roadster is just sporty for a driver and passenger, and even owners report trouble getting in and out as drivers.

    * Model S is just for two adults in front and two very small people (children or adults) in middle row, and small children in back with optional rear facing seats. Model S is relatively easy to get in and out of in front seats.

    * Model X is for two normal sized adults in front, two smaller sized adults in middle row or three not-large children (perfect for growing family), and one slight adult and one to two not-large children in rear, possibly one full sized adult/large child in rear if a captains' chair (6 seater) model so can stick legs forward between seats. Model X is very easy to get in and out of in front seats.

    * Model 3 is trying to make this a more practical seating arrangement by making 5 adult-sized seats, something that basically the other 3 models Tesla has released have struggled to do. I think the Model 3 might even be better than the Model S, and maybe even better than the Model X, for 5 large adults. But, proof is in the pudding. I'd still like to know more, both about the Model 3 and the Model X, which I haven't spent a lot of sitting time in in the rear two rows, due to limited availability.

    I used to commute in the rear of a small BMW as a 13 year old teenager. It was MISERABLE. I always hated that car. Being stuck in a car with bad room for me even as a child was AWFUL. I have never bought a small car since then, and yet, the large car I own now still has miserable back seat room. I applaud any effort given to fixing the rear seat problem. And since Tesla is trying to go to a much huger market, solving this problem of size for a large percentage of the population is a really good thing.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Roadrunner13
    That part of your statement is surprising.
    Model S has plenty of room for 2 to 3 adults in the back...I'm quite sure it has more room than the model 3 will ever have.
    For example, I'm sure the 3 won't be as large and doubt the cockpit could be any longer than the S.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Craig9080
    Half of the cars I have ever owned have been hatch-backs and I love them. That being said I have since realized that for many tasks, if you are part of a multi-car household, it is worth it to have one of the other cars be a SUV or truck. Now having an X and a 3 in the garage would be quite the collection.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    igotzzoom
    A bit of hyperbole from EM, I think. There's no way a conventional trunk is better for camping, bikes and hauling bulky/awkward items than a hatchback. Unless the rear doors open up a full 90 degrees, and the rear seats do some pretty epic configuration gymnastics.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Autolycus
    He didn't say it would be better. He said it would be able to fold the seats down and would be fine for sleeping in.
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  • Apr 4, 2016
    Pasinger
    As an European (from Munich) I hope for a hatchback in the future, therefore I am dissapointed. As beautiful as the design is, i need the versatility. And headroom on the backseats is not so important for me, as in most cases only 1-2 persons are in my car. I could live with all, even no speedometer, but not with this little trunk opening.
    BTW: I estimate about 80% of my neighbours have also hatchbacks or SUVs.
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  • Apr 4, 2016
    yesup
    European's love of hatchbacks and wagons are well known.
    Inexplicably, hatchbacks and particularly wagons simply don't sell in US.

    As of the end of 2014, Europe accounts for 17% of Tesla sales, Asia 20%, while North America is 62%.
    So you can understand why Tesla would choose a sedan version as the first model for Model 3.
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  • Apr 4, 2016
    AustinPowers
    The available pictures of the Model 3 trunk look as if the opening is just as large as that of my current car, if not even a bit larger.
    So I am perfectly fine with how Tesla designed it.
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  • Apr 4, 2016
    deonb
    The main competitors to the Model 3 in especially Europe, is the BMW 3-series, Mercedes C-class and Audi S4. They don't come in hatchback, but instead all have a regular trunk, and a station wagon configuration.

    Just from driving on the roads there, I didn't get the impression that station wagons outsold regular trunk versions of those vehicles. They're of course much more common there than over here though, but it's not a majority.
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  • Apr 4, 2016
    Yggdrasill
    The station wagons are definitely in the majority here in Norway. Checking the biggest car selling site, of the 3-series available, about two thirds are station wagons.

    Of course, it will vary between the different countries.
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  • Apr 4, 2016
    mdevp
    Here is a pic for those who haven't seen it. I understand the increased rear headroom and the aesthetics, but my wife hauls 2 kids around and easy, convenient access to trunk space is super important. IMO most people will have less use for 3 adults in the back seat vs better trunk access. She'll use this car everyday and at times she needs a larger opening for bulky groceries and larger boxes from time to time. I feel most people who drive around during the day for errands have a similar story, at least from around where I live. Quick pic-
    m3 1.jpg
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  • Apr 4, 2016
    Socom
    Trunk is fine for me, no bigger than my fianc�'s focus. If I need more space I can use the frunk too :)
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  • Apr 4, 2016
    Yggdrasill
    Latest tweet:

    tweet.png
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  • Apr 4, 2016
    doublejj
    Looks bigger than my corolla trunk....:)

    image.jpeg.jpg
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  • Apr 4, 2016
    aija SigX 649
    Great shot, does look bigger from this vantage point. Thanks for posing. EM said that it is possible to make it bigger. Perhaps the entrance above the bumper can be lowered flush with the floor of the trunk (hard to see from the pic if it's there already). Otherwise, I can't see how much higher the cross beam at the top of the trunk can be made without impacting rear visibility.
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  • Apr 4, 2016
    stopcrazypp
    This angle makes it look like the opening is deeper than it actually is. If you look at it from the side view, it is pretty obvious the opening is very shallow, making it smaller than most trunks.

    I am glad Elon says it can be made bigger. That is my biggest concern (and would be an acceptable compromise vs having a hatch).
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  • Apr 4, 2016
    doublejj
    That trunk will work plenty fine for me...:)
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  • Apr 4, 2016
    Twiglett
    given the design of the rear seat location there isn't room to put hinges for a rear hatch.
    The easy answer if someone doesn't like any element of the design is to cancel their reservation.
    Then the folks that don't mind will be closer to getting their car :)
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  • Apr 4, 2016
    stopcrazypp
    The other answer is to complain loudly and hope Tesla listens (which they appear to be doing, from Elon's responses).
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  • Apr 4, 2016
    SlyWombat
    And the rear seats supposedly fold down as well for more storage.
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  • Apr 4, 2016
    Snow Drift
    Elon said you can fit bikes or 7' surfboard.
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  • Apr 4, 2016
    Socom
    Hopefully what they will do is eliminate or shrink the rear "cargo deck" behind the rear seats and make the trunk open up to that point to allow bigger objects to fit in.
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  • Apr 4, 2016
    BravoSarah
    Confirmed:
    Won't be a hatchback, but will be bigger
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  • Apr 4, 2016
    Trev Page
    I'm perfectly fine with the trunk given what I've seen. Tesla will make it right as rain.
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  • Apr 4, 2016
    stopcrazypp
    There is probably a limited amount they can do while still keeping the overall styling and rake of the glass, but I see a similar point. The issue isn't really the width or height of the opening, but rather the depth (which is taken up by that section behind the rear seats).
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  • Apr 4, 2016
    rolosrevenge
    As long as it is as big as the trunk in my A6, it's all that I need, especially with the frunk
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  • Apr 4, 2016
    Socom
    I honestly have no complaints after seeing the perspective from doublejj's post. That's plenty of room for a couple of suitcases!
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  • Apr 4, 2016
    hockeythug
    As long as it fits my golf bag.
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  • Apr 5, 2016
    mdevp
    I think the ease of placing big grocery bags or boxes into the trunk is the question, not the actual amount of trunk space, which looks to be adequate. It doesn't look like it'd be easy loading bulky objects.
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  • Apr 5, 2016
    mistermonty705
    Not a deal breaker for me. I've had my current car for 2 years. I've used my trunk maybe 1-2 times. I keep all my groceries in my front seat. I shop at whole foods daily so I need to keep an eye on my precious cargo (food from the hot bar). I actually get anxiety when I have things in the trunk because :

    1) I can't tell if everything is ok. Which results in me stopping often

    2) the banging of items in my trunk annoys me beyond belief. Which also results in me stopping.

    I pray for the day that a trunk less model 3 is available ;)
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  • Apr 5, 2016
    1208
    The trunk could easily be increased by 2ft in diagonal height whilst keeping the glass roof. Have the glass come down to just behind the rear passengers. Almost a liftback then. Someone with better photoshopping skills could do this properly on both an open and closed trunk image then tweet Elon it. :)

    You could get a washing machine in this then. It would be massive.

    3 roof.JPG
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  • Apr 5, 2016
    GSP
    Since Elon tweeted that the Model 3 would have an optional trailer hitch, owners can easily attach a bicycle carrier or tow a utility trailer to move bulky items. Not as convenient as a hatchback, but a viable option to get these jobs done.

    GSP
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  • Apr 5, 2016
    dalalsid
    I'm hoping the final version is lift back but I'm getting regardless. I'm also probably getting a Y, which I expect to be Porsche macan sized
    This is exactly what I was thinking. Put the crossbeam right behind the rear seat headrest.
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  • Apr 5, 2016
    Vitold
    Of course Tesla could have done it (and I believe they will with Y) but it would look too much like a Prius. Current shape is an eye candy and perfect first entry in the affordable segment.
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  • Apr 5, 2016
    AustinPowers
    Station wagons are very common in Germany. Of some models, they surely make up the majority of sales. Especially on business vehicles that travelling salesmen and customer service people use. VW Passat, Audi A4 / A6 come to mind immediately, closely followed by C-class and 3-series/5-series. E-class is still very often sold in limousine form, especially for taxis.
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  • Apr 5, 2016
    S'toon
  • Apr 5, 2016
    tgal
    I would prefer a liftback, but it certainly isn't a deal breaker for me. I currently drive a Mini, so trunk space obviously isn't a high priority for me.
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  • Apr 5, 2016
    Tiberius
    The model 3 will be our commuter car first. My wife will be using it as she has a much longer commute... our 4Runner will be the goto where cargo is concerned.
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  • Apr 5, 2016
    igotzzoom
    I don't know why they couldn't have had almost the exact same look with a liftback (minus the ginormous one-piece rear glass roof). Still disappointed, but I'm kind of over it, if the trunk opening is enlarged by the time it makes it to production.
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  • Apr 5, 2016
    Beavis
    Not a big concern for me. I have an S for big luggage or golf bags. I have racks for bikes, skis, snowboards, etc...For anything bigger than that, I will rent a truck or van and not risk ripping up the interior of my S or 3.
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  • Apr 5, 2016
    1208
    This should fit no problem

    [?IMG]
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  • Apr 5, 2016
    ucmndd
    Hatchback is just one more thing to eventually squeak, rattle, and shimmy. I'll take the standard trunk.
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  • Apr 5, 2016
    SpiceWare
    Looks quite spacious to me. I'm on my second S2000, so have lived with just 5 cubic feet of oddly shaped trunk space since then :)

    IMG_7055.jpg
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  • Apr 5, 2016
    PaulJB
    Its clear from Elon's tweet that the choice was adult-sized headroom using the glass roof at the expense of the hatchback. Some have commented on the lack of need for driving around 5 adults, and that the hatchback trunk would have been more useful. I can understand that.

    Nonetheless, could this decision be another sign indicating that Tesla intends to start some kind of Uber-like ride sharing business (but autonomous) in the next decade, and that the Model 3 will be the staple car used for it?
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  • Apr 5, 2016
    aija SigX 649
    Yes
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  • Apr 5, 2016
    aija SigX 649
    My prediction is that this platform will be so successful over the next 5 years that TM will need to create at least 3x the number of current standard customizations (colors, interiors, roof styles, trunk styles) so customers will feel that their cars are unique & different enough to stand out from every other car on the road! Autonomous driving capabilities, Auto-opening doors and trunks, Summon, are all prerequisites for fully Driverless Uber/Lyft style services. Introduction of redundant autopilot hardware and newly formed laws, and insurance policies, will signal the beginning of these services.
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  • Apr 6, 2016
    Incredulocious
  • Apr 6, 2016
    AZ Desert Driver

    I have a bit of difficulty getting into Sedans. The hatchbacks of old were very tight. Can anyone describe how a big guy gets in and out of the M3? The Reveal drivers exited the cars just off camera - but they looked like big guys. Any reporters that got rides --any effort at entry/exit? Tesla prototype drivers - how do you fold your head under the roof?
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  • Apr 6, 2016
    ShockZen
    Not a deal breaker for me at all Model ? is going to have way more space than I'm used to driving a 2008 Chevy Cobalt Coupe right now.
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  • Apr 7, 2016
    googlepeakoil
    Very close to a deal killer for me.
    Elon tweeted about making the rear trunk opening bigger. I hope he remembers. Very disappointed it's not a hatchback as the shape of the rear glass is not that different to the S. So there could be a break in the roof behind the headrests. But Elon tweeted it won't be a hatchback - they're copying the BMW 3 and Audi A3 model shape too closely... and they're liftgate's.
    I liked the comment "I ride a bike - not a surfboard" - make that opening bigger Elon !
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  • Apr 7, 2016
    houdini
    [?IMG]
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  • Apr 7, 2016
    SpiceWare
    Just get the optional tow hitch and a bike rack like this Roadster owner did
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  • Apr 7, 2016
    yesup
    No, there won't be a break in the rear glass. They could make the opening slightly larger by lowering the bumper or widening the side of the trunk opening. But they won't make the glass "liftable".
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  • Apr 7, 2016
    dctrombly
    This seems so obvious and simple to have implemented from the start. It's frustrating and annoying that people are excusing Tesla's lack of interest in practicality when they could've transferred the hatch design of the S in the 3. Raise the joint beam to behind the rear passengers' heads on the ceiling, give us a more practical vehicle.
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  • Apr 7, 2016
    yesup
    And this results in zero visibility on your rear view mirror! Plus it would look extremely ugly and awkward.
    Please give Tesla designers & engineers some credits. I am sure they have gone through all the possibilities before deciding on this.

    It is easy for us armchair critics to say they should have done this and that. But for them, they have tons of things to consider and worry about.
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  • Apr 7, 2016
    dctrombly
    I'm confused why you claim that making a hatchback sedan would hinder visibility. Simply look at the Model S, their own vehicle. 3 could've done this. Glass stops behind the rear passengers, and just continue another separate piece of glass there going forward.
    [?IMG]
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  • Apr 7, 2016
    stopcrazypp
    Yeah, that seems to go right through where the rear view mirror would be pointed. And it would require both the bottom half for the lid and the upper half have glass in a split rear window (which I'm not sure any vehicle does this; a pano-roof is close but not really the same thing).

    The easiest way would be to have the beam right over the head (like Model S), but Tesla chose not to do that in order to improve rear headroom.
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  • Apr 8, 2016
    stopcrazypp
    The suggestion you quoted was different from the S. The suggestion (in blue) would have had a beam going across, right where rear visibility would be compromised (and in reality the beam would have to be much thicker than indicated). The advantage however is that it doesn't intrude on rear headroom.

    I added the line in red that approximates what the Model S equivalent would be. The problem with the Model S design was that the beam intruded in rear headroom (which is why Tesla abandoned the liftback design for Model 3).
    3 roof b.jpg
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  • Apr 8, 2016
    googlepeakoil
    Most people who want a big trunk opening want it to weatherproof their items. I think why hatchbacks are so popular in the UK. Also far more streamlined to put stuff in the car than to have it on the back. There's a reason people can only do about 20mph on a mountainbike and resistance increases with the square of velocity!
    Other items I put in my hatchback. Odd bit of furniture. A relative here died and we inherited a desk... Wont fit in the 3. Would fit in a Vauxhall Astra or any other hatchback. Go to a big box store. Take some plastic tubs of leaves / branches / etc to the tip... gonna be struggling in this car. Take the old tv to the tip. Buy big items from a DIY store. Going on holiday - pile stuff up to level with the rear headrests... much easier in the 3... it's not like Tesla dont know how to - they did it in the S.
    BUT if Tesla wants to keep a premium feel of the S - then that's the option - extra $35,000 gets you a bigger car with a convenient boot.
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  • Apr 8, 2016
    SpiceWare
    A few weeks ago I took a trip with my folks. We used a luggage rack mounted on their tow hitch with a weatherproof bag. Nothing got wet despite the heavy rain and snow that occurred during the drive to/from Wisconsin. Likewise for the few times you're going to hauling larger items, like a said desk, just use a small trailer.

    IMG_7010.jpg
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  • Apr 8, 2016
    ivengo
    it might be possible the continuous glass is needed for all cameras and sensors required for the full autonomous vehicle and thus they cannot sacrifice visibility for the full hatchback solution.
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  • Apr 8, 2016
    dalalsid
  • Apr 8, 2016
    okashira
    The Model 3 "trunk" thing is def a deal killer for me, not that I would spend 40k on a car (ill buy used at auction for 9k or so)
    I was absolutely flabbergasted when I saw the trunk open, what a way to destroy an otherwise awesome car
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  • Apr 8, 2016
    SpiceWare
  • Apr 8, 2016
    cacarbuff
    What if they just made the panels behind the rear seats removable? Then, if the rear opening is wide enough, you have a lot of the versatility of a hatchback but don't have to compromise on the current roof design. This would also solve the problem for many dog owners (like myself) who need a back seat for kids, and a truck that is open to the car for the dog.

    [?IMG]
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  • Apr 8, 2016
    BluestarE3
    Do we yet know whether the cargo cover behind the rear seats is removable or not?
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  • Apr 8, 2016
    cacarbuff
    That's what I was referring to
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  • Apr 8, 2016
    stopcrazypp
    This idea had been discussed in the other thread. In the current design, there is a steel panel/beam in that area, so Tesla will have to make some changes (the steel beam has to be kept, but it may be able to be moved a few inches or reduced in size, and the steel panel can possibly be eliminated).

    How does the trunk work on the Model 3

    Note: Elon did not mention anything about the panel (nor did anyone bring it up in the AMA twitter session). All Elon promised was the trunk opening height and width will be larger.
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  • Apr 8, 2016
    Darryl
    It sounds like to me many people are trying to make the Model 3 fit their needs when it doesn't. It isn't a hatchback, it isn't a van and it isn't a pickup. It is an entry level luxury sedan with a trunk and a frunk. A single car is never going to meet everyone's needs.

    The next version of the Tesla after the 3 is suppose to be a small crossover (smaller than the X). This will have the hatchback and cargo space many are complaining about not being in the Model 3.
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  • Apr 8, 2016
    eloder
    This.

    It makes perfect sense.

    The Model Y crossover--which most assuredly will be a hatchback--will be coming when the European manufacturing facility is online. The Model 3--most popular in North America--will be in North America. The crossover is likely to be pumped out from a facility in Europe, where it's the most popular format.

    I understand the global perspective on wanting a hatchback but that's simply not the best decision for Tesla right now.

    Besides, Tesla's liftback doesn't carry everything either. If you took more of the roof away, you could fit large cabinets and sofas inside the car. Oh right, that would make the Tesla into a pickup truck. Don't pretend that the Model S is a perfect solution with its liftback either, it's just a different car format.
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  • Apr 8, 2016
    Gizmotoy
    To be fair, I think most Model S drivers would tell you that the rear visibility is quite poor, especially for those with the newer seats with higher rear headrests. There's a little sliver of daylight out the back and that's about it. The rear camera is less a perk than a necessity.

    I'd also note, for lack of a better word, there's a lot more "car" behind the rear passengers in the Model S. If you put the break point behind the heads of the rear passengers in the Model 3, you'd end up with a little baby hatch. Look at the pictures of the Model 3 in profile. If you make a hatch hinge just behind their heads, it falls directly in the line-of-sight of the driver out the rear window.
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  • Apr 8, 2016
    BluestarE3
    Exactly. It would be great if they could fold up or be removed. I was just wondering if anyone has heard or read anything definitively about this yet.
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  • Apr 8, 2016
    igotzzoom
    Problem solved, except for price: :D

    [?IMG]
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  • Apr 10, 2016
    Red Sage
    1) Board on edge, inserted through the trunk over the folded rear seat backs. Point down the middle on top of the center console, fins to one side in the trunk. Would have to be a narrow board though.

    2) Board laid flat, fins up, passenger side front seat pushed fully forward and tilted toward the front, board stuck through trunk opening over folded rear seats at an angle toward front passenger seat.
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