Jan 8, 2013
Lyon After only a few days with our Model S, I've started coming up with a few things that, IMHO, should be improved/changed when Tesla builds Model X. Please feel free to chime in if you've had similar thoughts.
- Frunk operation needs to be automatic like the rear trunk. The opening and closing mechanism is clumsy and needing to have two hands free to close the frunk without denting the hood is pretty annoying.
- Cup holders. The Model X is aimed at families and will require, at a minimum, one cup holder per occupant.
- Internal storage. Children come with detritus. Model X will need a place to stash all that crap.
- My wife would like there to be a rear-seat entertainment option. There are some benefits to being able to a) control what's being watched from the front, and, b) being able to play the audio through the car speakers, especially when we're talking about younger kids.
As I said, I'm only a few days into my electric odyssey and I'm sure I'll find other nits to pick but these are some that I really hope they improve on for Model X.�
Jan 8, 2013
brianman My understanding is that, at least to some degree, government regulations required the manual latches on the frunk.�
Jan 8, 2013
PopSmith You're correct, the manual latch is required as part of the U.S. federal regulations. I'm not sure on other countries regulations.
Here is a part of the regulation concerning hood latches:
Part 571--Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards :: Chapter V--National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, DoT :: Title 49 - Transportation :: Code of Federal Regulations :: Regulations :: Law :: Justia�
Jan 9, 2013
ElSupreme I agree and disagree with this. I find that storage spaces increase the amount of crap that is around. It is hidden and stays out of mind. There is a threshold of storage space that you need, and I think the Model S is not quite at that level. So yes more storage, but not a lot more. But I also really like the idea of having a bag a storage.
I think Tesla has this one right not offering one. I think an tablet is a much cheaper better and more aesthetic solution to back seat entertainment. And with proper Bluetooth pairing you can run the car sound from one of these devices. Maybe a package with a sleeve/storage and a nice high-powered USB port for each rider would be an acceptable 'entertainment package'. Heck I think if they also just charged for the tablets it would be good.�
Jan 9, 2013
EchoDelta I don't have an S so extrapolating from forums. Fortunately many of these are software, don't require more than a bit more sensors or are Model S "bootstrap" artifacts (ie issues that happen only the first time you do something)
- Parking sensors, camera guidelines
- Issues with door handles sensing
- Battery heating, parked SOC loss, short trips and other winter considerations
- Some features of tech package IMO should be 'standard'
- An app that is available upon launch of the vehicle
- Offline maps
There are also many other things that I am starting to have vague ideas about reading the Model S experiences but these are the most concrete so far�
Jan 9, 2013
100thMonkey One lesson I sure hope gets transfered over to the X for the S is how the S is normal enough to have mass appeal and function. I very much hope that there is a "normal door" option for those who want to use the X for it's "sports utility". The falcon doors are cool looking, but I want the X to haul kayaks, ski's etc, all requiring a roof rack and so far I have not seen any proposal for the X that enables one to use the X as a typical sports utility vehicle. being able to put stuff on top is a far greater priority for us than making entry and exit from the third row easier.�
Jan 9, 2013
MikeK I don't see anything in that regulation that says that the latch must be manual. It basically says that you need a secondary latch. On most cars, there's the latch that opens when you pull the handle inside, and then there's the catch you push or pull with your hand as you're about to open the hood, and that I always have to grope around for!
It does not say that closing the hood and engaging the two latches has to be done through manual pressure. You could (for example) close the hood lightly, engaging one latch, and have a mechanism that pulled the hood the rest of the way down to the point where the second latch engaged.�
Jan 9, 2013
anticitizen13.7 The Honda CR-V does a good job giving just the right amount of storage. There's a sunglasses compartment, a big center console box with sliding cover, glove compartment, and door pockets for the driver and passenger. This is a very useful amount of storage without having too many or overly complicated nooks and crannies for everything. Door pockets are especially useful for storing a mini-umbrella, which is convenient when exiting the car in a rainy parking lot.�
Jan 9, 2013
Lyon This was sort of what I though when I read the regulation. It requires a redundant latch but it does not say anything about either latch needing to be manual.
To all the other replies, thanks! I appreciate that you guys took the time to respond.
- Storage: I, too, like the idea of not having massive amount of storage. For instance, there are minivans out there with storage compartments in the floors. Talk about useless places for crap to accumulate and get moldy. The Model S, is, shall we say, spartan, in it's internal storage. I really like the shelf under the screen but it needs at least one enclosed space with a lid somewhere.
- RES: Reasonable people can, and will differ on this subject. I, for one, will understand if they don't use their engineering resources cooking one up for Model X, but I think if they do it could be fricken awesome. Just think: multiple screens, digital video content, all controlled by the front screen. Just plug in a thumb drive.
- Doors: Good point on offering standard doors. I don't know how easy that would be from an engineering standpoint but if it's feasible they should look into it. I'm excited for the falcon doors because I don't really put things on the roof and getting kids in and out in tight parking spots can be a royal pain.
- Parking sensors: Yeah, not having them as standard equipment on my $100,000+ Model S is pretty lame. My wife's really not going to like not having them available for Model X. I really don't get not adding them. It's well established tech that they could have simply sourced from one of their existing partners. I know they got the air suspension from Continental and I'd be shocked if Continental didn't also have parking sensors. While they're at it, they should make a retrofit kit for Model S!�
Jan 9, 2013
aronth5 Regardless, you should still be able to close the frunk with one hand.�
Jan 17, 2013
mikevbf Maybe a similar thread should be posted over in the model s section.�
Jan 22, 2013
NigelM Lesson learned from Model S: give us a comprehensive owners manual, please don't leave us to figure it all out again.�
Jan 28, 2013
DJ Frustration As a parent of two kids, ages 5 and 2, the Model X needs a minimum amount of "holders" and "storage." The Model S storage is definitely an issue. That there isn't a middle back seat fold down console to hold cups on a $90k car is borderline insulting. The reality is that people need a place to insert items in a car. There are only two spots to put anything in the Model S (glove box and little hiding spot under the 17" screen). Honestly, if the X just had the fold down console on the middle seat, I'd be satisfied.�
Jan 30, 2013
Lyon Wow, our kids are the same age and we have the same issue with Model S. I've always wondered why they didn't go with a fold down bit in the middle of the back.�
Jan 30, 2013
AustinPowers And while we're at it, they should offer that option (fold down rear center armrest/storage/cupholder unit) that ist standard in any car that calls itself "premium" sedan, with an optional fold-out ski-bag.
I know the nominal cargo capacity of the Model S is enormous, but when you have to transport long items (like skis, poles, garden hardware and equipment), you don't stand a chance.�
Jan 30, 2013
brianman Nitpicker's corner:
- frunk
- cubby on the left side (facing car) of the trunk
- footwell / covered storage in the trunk
- cupholders�
Jan 31, 2013
AnOutsider Yeah, not sure why the searchable version was removed from the touch screen.
Overall, I think (hope) the X will be a much better car than the S. They have less to prove now, and Elon hasn't been running his mouth re: features/stats that end up compromising the car (like fixed headrests and no cupholders to improve the crash test ratings).�
Jan 31, 2013
NigelM At risk of starting yet another cupholder discussion: that really is a big mistake with the S. The front armrest ones are poorly positioned and I'm getting kinda tired of my daughter's water bottle rolling around on the rear floor. If the X is going to be a family car it needs to come with cupholders in the back, a couple (really Tesla, just a couple, please!) of places to store things like a Kindle, book, iPod etc. They should also absolutely have a usb port accessible to the rear seat passengers.�
Feb 9, 2013
BenTesla I probably won't be able to buy a Tesla for a pretty long time so maybe I'm too far removed to have the proper level of concern but I like to comment on these threads every blue moon :biggrin:
About the Falcon Wing doors: I honestly think (Depending on the way the final version turns out) they could make tight parking spaces easier to get into with the doors opening up instead of out. That along with it being helpful with kid loading and entering the third row, means that I like it.
About the Model X in general: IMHO I think Tesla's selling a sleek & sexy minivan alternative not an SUV. I say that because so far the selling points are really targeted toward women with young kids. Which last time I checked isn't how most companies sell a truck. If it's a minivan competitor then the roof rack issue is a lot less important (I'd think) but if it is an SUV....it's not really looking good. So far at least (I know it's early) Model X makes a lot of sense to target the segment of the cross-over market thats just buying a crossover because they don't want to have to drive a minivan. I hope that's it.....
About Storage in Model S: I really like having the pocket on the back of the passenger seat!! I know it's not fashionable but it's perfect for storage. That and the little "smuglers box" they put under the butt section passenger seat in some cars, would be great.�
Feb 12, 2013
JMO front and back up distance sound sensors
top of door handles for all passengers
hitch�
Feb 13, 2013
rcf8000 I agree that the Model X is a minivan alternative. Since there is no such thing as a performance minivan or a luxury minivan, there should be a significant market for it.�
Feb 13, 2013
RDoc With the recent discussions of cold weather driving, I think fixing the range loss / cabin heating issue should be very high on the priority list. While I'm not going to be using it for moving kids, I could easily imagine that many parents would be concerned about doing a trip with kids where the cabin heat was off or low and they had to stop for an hour and a half to recharge every 3 hours or so. It's one thing to have to make an emergency recharge stop for a few hours for an adult, but that sounds like it would be very hard on young children.�
Feb 13, 2013
ElSupreme The problem here is you are running into a thermodynamics problem, that can't be solved. It takes energy to heat the cabin, you don't carry 'much' with you in the battery. The only thing that is going to help cabin heating is more energy (larger battery), more insulation, or moving to a heat pump (but as it gets colder they get less efficient). None of which will get you huge gains.
They can do something to help keep the batteries warm. But short of changing the chemistry, or laxing their protection of the batteries (not going to happen), they just can't be as deeply cycled when cold. I think Tesla could add a small air gap between the outside of the pack (on the bottom of the car), and fill it with coolant to allow heat transfer, or void it to help insulate. But dealing with a air/liquid system has lots of headaches. And if you start jostling around such a system it could be really hard to make ultra reliable.�
Feb 13, 2013
AnOutsider We don't know how close to the undercarriage the actual battery is -- but it may be a simple matter of more insulation between the battery and the outside air. Or perhaps, like Supreme said, some fluid in that space that can be heated and cooled rather efficiently and maintains its temperature for decent amounts of time. I'm sure there's something that can be done.�
Feb 19, 2013
Herbys That could be bypassed by making the frunk on the X open backwards (as many European cars do). It is not as convenient as a front-opening frunk, especially in a tall vehicle, but it is an option that's well researched for hoods.�
Feb 20, 2013
spatterso911 That would really diminish the utility of the frunk space though...�
Feb 22, 2013
EchoDelta Side opening folding falcon frunk! Like a falcon with canards.
(just kidding, the less moving parts the better. But a sideways opening frunk could be an alternative that avoids air-ram openings and also provides front access. Disclaimer: I'm sure there's a reason I don't work designing cars.)�
Feb 25, 2013
Right_Said_Fred Why wait for the Model X with these improvements? A lot of them - parking sensors, cup holders, center console front and back, coverage of window wipers - are not difficult to implement in the short term. Why not introduce them now? It will take away the practical objections some people have against the car, improve owner satisfaction and actually help Tesla sell more cars. Hopefully they will already introduce some improvements before European deliveries start this summer
:wink:�
Feb 25, 2013
rcf8000 If the Model X doesn't have parking sensors, that's a deal breaker for me. Same goes for memory seats, or does the Model S now have that?�
Feb 25, 2013
VolkerP After the price increase, all Model S now have 12way adjustable heated seats with seat memory, even the textile ones.
Tesla stated that driver assistance systems like parking sensors, ACC, lane departure, and electrically folding side mirrors are not available to them due to low production volume. Suppliers simply won't produce to Tesla's specification for 20k units/year for a reasonable price. As Model S gains traction, I expect some movement here and there, though.�
Feb 25, 2013
AnOutsider I don't doubt you, but I'd never seen a real reason given for the lack of these features before. Do you have a link to a source?�
Feb 25, 2013
bonnie Really? Lack of parking sensors would be your deal breaker?�
Feb 25, 2013
brianman Rigid requirements over non-essentials like this is part of what contributes to the cancellation rate Tesla is seeing.
Delivery is too late. Delivery is too early. My cupholders are the wrong color. Does it come with a pony? I demand it comes with a pony. And a stable that is self-cleaning. Etc. It's a car, from a company that has only 2 vehicles on record. Accept it for what it is, rather than whining "deal-breaker" at every whimsical thing you "absolutely must have" to drive from point A to point B.
Expressing wants and desires, and honest critiques of shortcomings are fine. But cries of "deal-breaker" just make me want to look up your address on the intertubes and leave a wolf in your garage just to see how many people come when you cry about it.
Sorry, I'm grumpy today for some reason.�
Feb 26, 2013
arg I've come to believe that many posters use the word 'dealbreaker' in the manner of an expletive used for emphasis. I no longer take it literally, any more than I believe other posts which imply that their cars are capable of procreation.�
Feb 26, 2013
NigelM Model S is a big car and that can easily be intimidating for anyone trying to parallel park; however, IMO the rear view camera more than makes up for the lack of parking sensors. I think it's a given that the X will have at least the same rear-view camera.�
Feb 26, 2013
spatterso911 Rear view camera + alloy gators = no worries mon!
Don't worry, be happy.!�
Feb 27, 2013
rcf8000 Add blind spot detection to my must-have list. My current car, that I plan to replace with the Model X, has that, in addition to memory seats and parking sensors, front and rear. These features are common in cars costing half as much as the Model X is likely to cost. If I'm going to spend $90,000 on a car, I expect it to be a lot better equipped than the Model S currently is.�
Feb 27, 2013
sp4rk Deal-breakers?
spatterso911 - did you get alloy gators? I'm thinking of getting some ... but shipping all the way from UK ... ?�
Feb 28, 2013
NigelM If the assumption is that an EV drive train and battery = an ICE drivetrain, then the reasoning for comparable other features is valid. However, there's a certain premium in the EV investment so I suspect you're going to be disappointed.�
Feb 28, 2013
aronth5 rcf8000, I would be interested if you have taken a test drive and still feel the lack of these features are deal breakers?�
Feb 28, 2013
wstuff I guess it's just my feeble old imagination but I am starting to see the threads infiltrated with nit picky little posts like the Chartreuse color I want isn't available , so I'm not buying one. The tailpipes are missing, I'm not buying one. I think the seats are not comfortable ( because I've never sat in one) so I'm not buying one, Me thinks there is a issue where I must tell everyone I don't like something. Or the natives are getting restless and it's time to buy more stock.
Please don't put me in SNIPINESS JAIL, I just can't understand why someone perpetuates a thread about why they aren't going to buy the car, don't buy the car!�
Feb 28, 2013
Kaivball Lol, I remember the days when the drivers had skill and things like "blind spot detectors" and "parking sensors" were part of the car knowledge set.
I will always turn my head, with or without blind spot detector. I doubt that blaming your blind spot detector not working will ever be a valid defense in court.�
Feb 28, 2013
Al Sherman LOL! Seriously: Don't buy the car! The deal breaker stuff is really getting tiresome.�
Feb 28, 2013
brianman Facebook and twitter generation(s).
"Just had to tell everyone what I had for breakfast...."
"Squirrel!"�
Mar 1, 2013
rcf8000 Yes, I have taken a Model S test drive.�
Mar 1, 2013
Lyon Not to yank the leash here, but this thread was intended to serve as something helpful to Tesla. My thought was that Model S owners would have a real basis of experience for offering suggestions as to how Tesla could improve on things for Model X. To reply to one comment above: I never intended that this thread should somehow indicate that Tesla should stop improving Model S, to the contrary, I hope that this helps them for the refresh of Model S in a few years.
After almost two months of using Model S as my DD I can pretty clearly say that I don't miss the rear parking sensors. The camera is awesome and the tilting mirrors allow me to stay off the curb. It's also great not to have that annoying beeping all the time when I'm backing up. I would love it if they added a front camera though. Frankly, the camera allows me to be much more precise when I'm parking than do parking sensors. The secret is that the screen is so BIG and CLEAR that the view from the camera is really useful. If you've used some of the tiny ones in other cars it's really not a comparable thing. I understand that other, cheaper, cars have parking sensors but the camera on Model S is much better than parking sensors
All that said, I still think Tesla should add the darn things (or have them available as an option) as they're relatively cheap and it will give one less nit to pick. Just give me a way to turn them OFF so I don't have to listen to that incessant beeping.
�
Mar 3, 2013
Jon After much research, I test drove the S on Wedneaday and have now reserved the Model X Signature.
I am currently driving a 1/2 ton pickup, and am aiming to replace it with the Model X. I am also expecting a few more little ones to be around in the next few years.
Thus, a Tesla approved towing package is make a lot of sense for me. No, I don't expect it to tow my tractor on a trailer, but if I need to pick up a few 2x4s and a sheet of plywood, or get the propane tanks over to Costco to have them refilled, I will need to tow a small trailer about 10 miles each way. I'll miss the open back of my pickup, but I will work around that if I can tow one of my three trailers.
The lack of cup holders would be a major inconvenience, if not a hazard. I didn't think to look for them when driving the Model S, but it was mentioned to my by a relative that they will always test drive any new car with a coffee in hand to ensure there is a handy spot for a hot beverage. Thus, I will add my vote for at least one cup holder per seat.
The smartphone app, the on demand music, the loads of storage space, and the quiet operation make this the car for me, which I will be proud to own, so I'm happy if it just comes with what the Model S has.
Oh, and the whole point that it's ELECTRIC.
Cheers,
Jon�
Mar 5, 2013
spatterso911 Got them and installed them. Love the peace of mind...�
Mar 5, 2013
AustinPowers True to a certain extent, but in those days
a) cars in general (at least over here) were much smaller than the Model S
b) it was far easier to judge from inside where the body of your car actually ended
c) there were far less cars (and maniacs driving them) on the road
There was a time when I too used to laugh at all these electronic features that (in those days) only a Mercedes S-class seemed to have. But parking sensors or power folding mirrors are really quite useful on large modern day cars.
Oh and speaking of large, I read the current summer tire test in our ADAC (German version of the AAA) magazine, and they - as always - tested different tire sizes. The "large" category was 17'' tires by the way. What would they call the Model S 19'' or even 21''? Gigantic? :wink:�
Mar 6, 2013
Jon "American size" of course.�
Mar 7, 2013
Jon One other thing to put on the wish list: a forward facing dash cam with continuous recording, saving 24 hours' worth of video. Should be helpful with protecting yourself from insurance scammers.
Jon�
Mar 11, 2013
Herbys My recommendations for the list (and they better fix them because I sure as hell am putting my deposit for the X
* The charge port cover needs to close automatically. I forget to close it too often, and I've seen a few Model Ss around with the cover open so I know I'm not the same. Either that or make the cover face backwards so it closes on its own after getting some speed.
* Be able to open the charge port with the remote fob (either that or make it open automatically when a specially-coded charge cable approaches, that would be cool). I hate having to go back into the car to open the charge port if I forgot to open it (by now you are probably thinking the problem is with my memory). I think this could be a software update for the Model S: double click or click and hold on the frunk button to open the charge port, or something like that.
* Make "no creep" configuration still hold on a hill. I like the no creep configuration, but on a hilly side I can't live without it since the car rolls back when starting on every hill.
* put proximity sensors on the front (OR a front-facing camera, which would be even better). It is already a problem with the S, the X is taller so it would be even more important.
* Make the flaps covering the roof rack attachments mechanically stronger. I've lost two already at the car wash. Wait, we don't know if the X will have a roof rack (I like the idea someone suggested of a roof rack sliding backwards and lowering to the ground, that would be really cool), so this one might not apply.
* Improve the range of the door handle sensor. If they opened half a second earlier I wouldn't look like a car thieve half of the time (I'm beginning to walk slower when getting to the car just because of this).
* Add a trash can. Yes, seriously. I can't understand how people that wouldn't have an office without a trash can accept that in a car there's no place to put a used paper tissue, a candy wrapper or a parking receipt.
* Add some decent locked interior space. Minimalistic is good, but minimalistic stops being minimalistic when you start having stuff loose around the car.
* Add rear-seat heaters. The savings in air heating when the car is cool will more than compensate for the cost.
* Drop the wheel adjustment knob. Make that a software option or put the button by the seat adjustment buttons. There are too many knobs behind the wheel, that's the one to drop.
* Use decent floor mats. The ones in my S have to be the cheapest piece of junk I got with any car. The one on the passenger side keeps rolling on the floor. Seriously, they would be a low point on a Lada, but on a Tesla they are sub-sub standard.
- - - Updated - - -
I am pretty sure they are already using a heat pump (I can hear it working when I turn on the heater with low wind speed and the car parked). I may be wrong, but everything points in that direction. And heating with a resistor would be so massively inefficient I can't imagine they even considered it.�
Mar 12, 2013
NigelM No-one should go off on a Model S tangent but:
Just press the button on the charge plug. Unless you constantly use a J1772 you don't have to enter the car to open the chargeport door.
My Tesla floor mats came with huge velcro pieces on the back that hold them in place.�
Mar 28, 2013
neroden (1) Test the car quite a lot in cold weather before going into mass production.
(2) Test the car quite a lot in cold WET weather, including extremely wet weather, before going into mass production.
(3) Test the car in cold wet weather with blizzards on bad roads, for long periods, before going into mass production.
;-) Most of the car design issues I've seen on the Model S relate to "California thinking", from the windshield wiper recess to the defogger/defroster problems to the loss of range in cold weather to the ridiculously low-profile tires to the low clearance under the car. A long-term test site in the Canadian winter would catch these problems before release. We know they aren't problems inherent to electric cars because the Roadster didn't have all of 'em.
(4) Make it possible to close the charge port door from inside the car / automatically. This might be doable in a revision of model S, too.
(5) I'm finding I'd like a front sensor -- or, heck, a front camera -- so as to avoid overrunnning curbs when going forward. This could also be done in a revision of model S.
(6) More internal storage space. This could also be done in a revision of model S.
(7) Protection from coins sinking into the ventilation system or hiding under the seat rails. This could also be done in a revision of model S.
(8) The aerodynamics on Model S appear to throw dirt onto the back of the car quite reliably. Perhaps this could be avoided in model X?
(9) The bigger issues with Tesla are about customer relations and do not apply to any particular car. The one lesson to learn from that is: get that stuff fixed BEFORE releasing a second model of car.�
Mar 30, 2013
mikevbf Nice post neroden. Even though Tesla is probably aware of most of these issues by now, writing them down here hopefully underlines them if Tesla reads these boards. I hope they do. I would add if Tesla does a blog post on the Model X winter performance, my hope is less pretty slow motion music video and more real time video and post driving interviews from driving experts who are preferably not employees or major investors in Tesla. Your point of Canadian (maybe eastern Canadian) not Californian perspective and testing is a good one too.�
Mar 30, 2013
spleen Can't agree more with most of your points. However, the point above - there may not be much that can be done about this one as it may stem from the aerodynamics of the car and the efforts to optimize them. I know for the Leaf, the back hatch of the car reliably collects dirt / oad grime way before any other part of the car - particularly after raining.�
Mar 30, 2013
jerry33 The only way to reduce this is to have an air deflector, which defeats most of the aerodynamics. Alternatively the back could be all glass with a washer and wiper system. The practical way is to choose a colour that doesn't show the dirt.�
Mar 31, 2013
spleen Which is why we chose silver. If Tesla had had a bronze option, we would have picked that, lol.�
Apr 3, 2013
neroden I think it's the Kamm-back, really. You don't see the same dirt build up if you have a pointy teardrop back. Probably not viable though. :wink: Pity the Aptera didn't work out.�
Sep 14, 2013
Discoducky Hmm, lessons learned:
1. More robust headliner and generally tough finishes on the A,B and C pillar.
2. Better noise dampening from wheel wells
3. Ingress/egress from 2nd row and we all know they have this nailed with falcon
4. AWD awesomeness; we should see this prior to Elon's trip as I would bet TSLA stock he'll be driving one
5. Towing
6. Steering wheel/column controls which should hopefully not be Merc parts
7. More cameras!!! Front, side, two in the rear (one for reverse and one for forward speeds instead of the rear view mirror). I'd like to see a mirrorless car actually. C'mon, Elon, move some engineering and political mountains!
8. More efficient with space inside the car as they engineer a more lean and mean driving machine. Less aluminum and less wasted space makes a bigger and lighter car.
9. Interior lighting
10. Storage and cup holders�
Sep 15, 2013
Blastphemy I would like the 2014 Tesla Model X to at least have the advanced features my 2010 Infiniti FX has (since I'll be replacing it with the Tesla), namely Around-View Monitor (a 360-degree top-down camera view for parking), adaptive cruise control, blind spot warning, lane departure warning, and front and rear parking sonar. But especially the 360-degree parking cameras which is available on every Infiniti, some Nissans, and some BMWs.�
Sep 15, 2013
brianman Let's keep this friendly -- limit it to dinner. I bet it won't be AWD for that trip.
Jerome's car. Now that one might have had AWD even at Teslive.�
Sep 16, 2013
NigelM I really don't understand why people persist with this? At TESLIVE we were told (adamantly, twice) that the Model S AWD didn't exist.�
Sep 16, 2013
brianman Persist with what?
Saying that if there's new tech "in the wild" (physically) but "contained" (in Tesla test vehicles) it would more likely be in Jerome's car based on what he said at Teslive than in Elon's highly visible to the public during his publicized road trip vehicle?
Or saying that it's totally reasonable that Tesla might have an AWD Model S (or more) on the road -- regardless of whether it's a customer offering in the works -- because it's a very convenient way to get some stealth testing of Model X?
Or something else?
And regarding "told at TESLIVE it doesn't exist", I interpreted that to mean in a customer-ready form. If they don't have a Model S skateboard ("under" S vs. X is irrelevant IMO) undergoing some testing and calibration already, then they are way behind schedule on Model X R&D IMO.�
Sep 16, 2013
NigelM Suggesting that there was an AWD prototype/mule/whatever Model S back in July, when Ted Merendino (who has great respect in the Tesla community) unequivocally stated twice that it didn't exist.�
Sep 16, 2013
brianman My recollection was that he was answering a different question than you are asserting he was asked.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying we are referencing different memories -- hence the different data we're drawing from.
I think we've (collectively) had this discussion before.
So, in answer to your question: The reason why people persist in discussion potential prototypes and mules for AWD is because it's totally logical* for R&D of AWD to have been underway as early as July (or earlier!), and they don't have the same interpretation of Ted's comments as you do.
* Taking this a bit further. If I was Elon, I would have had at least one engineer putting AWD in the skateboard before announcing the two motor Model X offering. How many people would have known about it? I have no idea. A skateboard with AWD is completely different from "a car", but you get my point, hopefully.�
Sep 16, 2013
Discoducky Feel free to move to the AWD thread, but when do you guess well see it out in the daylight?�
Sep 16, 2013
NigelM I think it's certainly on Tesla's to-do list, but IMO it's probably low on the priority ranking. They've got everything from Model X to FW updates to Supercharger roll-out to store openings going on right now, not to mention that they're still keeping up with Model S production and shipping to Europe. From a business perspective, the sooner they get towards Gen III the better so I just don't see why a Model S AWD would be that important right now.
Of course, I could be completely wrong.
P.S. One of the lessons from the Model S launch had to be focus; I think/hope that Tesla learned that for Model X.�
Sep 16, 2013
Discoducky All well and good; but the politician in you is showing�
Oct 13, 2013
Blacksmit I agree on that! I was going to buy the model s without even testdrive it (i had all the funds and insurance OK. But luckily i got to test Model S before ordering (I got to test drive 2 days after talking to them, cause i was so sure to buy the car, current waiting time for testdrive in Norway is 2 months), but sadly i must be one of the few persons who didn't order the car after testdriving it. The downpoint for me was space and internal storage. Being a family man with a toddler, i need to put kids stuff some place. There was no space in the door, or not even pockets behind the seats. And also that the space in the backseats were a bit tight for 2 grownups to sit next to a child seat.
So with that disappointment (The kid in me told me to buy the car, but the father in me told me not to - Father with mother persuasion�
Jun 30, 2014
NigelM It's been hot here lately (temps over 100F) and aside from the well-worn rear-seat cupholders request I'm adding in that Model X really needs better rear-seat AC than Model S currently has. I'm not even talking 3rd row, the 2nd row in Model S is really limited for air when it's this hot.�
Jun 30, 2014
andrewket I completely agree. I've added fans for the 3rd row, and tinting on all windows (except the front).�
Jun 30, 2014
NigelM We have tinted sides and back and front....still air in the rear seats sucks.�
Jul 9, 2014
wts13 Agreed. This thing better have solid ceiling vents in the 2nd and 3rd rows. I don't see how they can possibly miss this, it's standard equipment in all SUVs and minivans that I've been in.�
Jul 9, 2014
pthill65 I think one of the things that us Model X reservers owe the Model S owners is that a lot of the bugs that had to be worked out were done on their cars. Don't get me wrong, I think the level of quality of Models S is very high, but I bet we Xers won't have some of the squeaks, drivetrain noise/failure, etc that especially the early Models S had. Plus, there are probably a million little things from paint to seats to frunk closure etc etc that we will never know about that are better because the S blazed the way. I guess it means I'm not on the bleeding edge but rather an early adopter/fast follower, but I'm excited to be reserving a vehicle that I see as being in the "sweet spot" of technology. At the very least that's what I tell myself when I fire up my stinky ICE vehicle to go to work....�
Jul 9, 2014
RDoc I'm still wondering if it wouldn't be better to delay delivery a few months to let Tesla work out the initial problems with the X.�
Jul 9, 2014
DIL AMEN brother�
Dec 1, 2014
anticitizen13.7 I re-read this thread for fun, and the essence of it is: "get the small details right". As a driving machine, the Model S is superb, but it was/is also somewhat "unfinished" as far as things like storage, winter-readiness, and rear-bench HVAC comfort.
I don't know if people from Tesla saw this thread, but they probably agreed with you. As impatient as everyone (including myself) is for Model X, I can understand why Tesla is not in a hurry to release the X. As a "Generation 2.5" car, the X is not critical to the un-secret plan to bring the mass-market Model 3 into production. I see Model S as a "rough draft", with all the important lines and features in place, but not all the details, and the Model X as the product with all the features/functionality in sharp focus.�
Feb 14, 2015
NigelM Hey Tesla, you're beta testng now so don't forget:
Rear seat cupholders. And not the 50-Shades-of-Grey-leather-belt-round-your-ankles version, proper ones please.�
Feb 14, 2015
MikeL Cup holders in the FW Doors will break you of your perceived need :wink:�
Feb 16, 2015
AnOutsider LOL, I forgot about those. My wife broke the first set, they were replaced, and were never used again.�
Feb 17, 2015
anticitizen13.7 I'm 99.9% sure that Tesla will get cupholders, and storage in general, right on the Model X. I can't remember where I read it, but I distinctly recall that Franz von Holhausen met with a group of prospective customers to discuss what Tesla could improve upon, and storage was a big issue for female buyers. Also, Elon did occasionally say that the Model S design wasn't as family-friendly as it could be, and that it was a bit too guy-centric.
The most popular family vehicles really have great storage options. I expect Tesla to be no exception. In my estimation, a Model X with handy storage features could easily outsell Model S in 2016 and beyond, unless the S gets some upgrades to its interior too.�
Feb 20, 2015
AUSinator Sold cars for 7 years and I'm a car I enthusiast. Know a bit about cars and what helps to sell cars. Improvements I think that would be cool:
- no white or beige carpet in the light interiors very important as the X is a family car. Also important for the light leather seats to be as stain resistant as possible.
- better vision from rear window.
- inbuilt rear booster seat, this help sell the xc 90 Volvo big time. Women love it and so do I.
- women also love more storage eg: large sun glasses compartment, 1,5 liter bottle holder in the front. Mobile phone, mirror with led light under sun blind.
- led interior lights that slowly brighten the interior, are at the floor and you can change color use new s class for comparison.
- led laser head lights 600m range with auto dimming when apposite approaching car. And day light running lights. Makes the car safer but also makes it look cool.
- outside rear view mirrors with lane changing assist and auto tilt when reversing- my wife loves this!
- never underestimate the importance of cool looking led tail lights. You have to think they are on all the time at night and leave a lasting impression to the car behind you. It's also the first thing they see. I think the model s tail lights are non significant. I love ones like the merc CLA 45 AMG.
- very important rear lane guidance lines on the 17" screen when reversing. I also believe parking sensors are important. Once you get used to them you don't want to live with out them even when you have a 17" screen/camera for reversing.�
Feb 20, 2015
RobStark This is a no-brainer as you go from Elon-centric minimalist cool to genuine family vehicle.
This stuff is now a no-brainer on $80k plus vehicles.
Outside rear view mirrors will be eliminated as soon as regulations allow. Replaced by cameras and significant improvements to aerodynamics.
You can't do this without compromising class leading aerodynamics. So it won't happen on the S.
The X will have better vision through the rear window by the nature of it being a CUV. But will probably be at or near worst in class.�
Feb 20, 2015
Beryl (Emphasis mine.)
Female here and I so agree. I fell in love with the Model S and would have gone with it if there wasn't a Model X coming soon. I miss my Lexus RX300 that was totaled a few years ago. I expect the X to be even better -- not too big.
(Yes, I'm new but weren't we all?)�
Feb 20, 2015
MikeL "Even better" . . . Hmmmm - as nice as your Lexus may have been, it was a bogus cobbling together of several different 19th century technologies that wasted 85% of its fuel as it operated (made heat). Yes indeed your Tesla will be even better, it will be the best car you have ever known.�
Mar 2, 2015
Mr X you kidding?
�
Mar 9, 2015
EchoDelta Would you mind showing a picture or two of model S lights for effect? It's hard to imagine without pictures.
While I like the geometrical style; the LED bumps along the roof and brightness grain in the back light to me look a bit antiquated. Not sure if EL strips can achieve the lumens required for such applications; but would yield a nicer style than 'lots of little bulbs in here'�
Apr 19, 2015
eric96k Just did the factory tour yesterday as well as a test drive in a P85D.
They had rear lane guidance on the 17" screen when backing up. But I also thought it interesting that the guy was saying to use the rear camera during normal driving as a rear view mirror. The context was, use this when someone is in the back middle seat and blocking your view....�
Apr 20, 2015
Rodolfo Paiz Here are some of my current ideas:
1. The second row definitely needs better A/C airflow. The third (currently trunk) has none at all. And I'm not fond at all of the front air vents either... they don't have a whole lot of flexibility to direct air where I want it, and they feel cheap. Overall, MUCH better A/C airflow and design is necessary throughout the whole car.
2. At least one cupholder per occupant.
3. Some storage per occupant. At least door pockets and seatback pockets are mandatory, as is a fold-down center section of the rear seat for additional storage/cupholders/armrests for the two rear-seat occupants on the sides. The complete lack of storage is a MAJOR downside from my wife's point of view, and she's tempted to forgo the X and keep her BMW because of that. :-(
4. Some way to do rear-seat entertainment. I'm not fond of proprietary RES systems because they're very limited and they become obsolete very quickly... but kids get tired of holding up a tablet, OK? Either a way to have a built-in RES, or perhaps a seat-back bracket to hold a tablet, or SOMETHING that lets the kids watch something handsfree.
5. I'd really, REALLY like to see a mobile app that I can authorize from the front touchscreen. That way, authorized users could control the A/C and music settings from their phone/tablet, and they could see the navigation/energy progress from the apps. Plenty of cool stuff you could do with this... but just letting the kids in the back control the car's music through the app would be a godsend.
6. Please, the built-in WiFi hotspot for everyone. If necessary, offer it as an additional purchase so the car so the car can have a mobile-data plan for firmware updates and whatever Tesla needs, and a second mobile-data modem that can power the hotspot. The hotspot should ideally be modular, as should the mobile-data modem, so that we can upgrade from 802.11n to 802.11ac or from 3G to LTE as technology progresses.
7. The ability to install an SSD in the glove box, or at least another USB port, for music storage so I don't have to have a USB memory stick always using one of the ports between the seats.
8. As both a safety and comfort feature, the car should sense if any seat is occupied (weight plus heat?) and not turn off the power -- especially the climate control and music -- if the driver steps out. If we're going somewhere and I forgot my hat, then I have to put the car in neutral and set the parking brake while I go back into the house. If I just put it into park and step out, my wife and kids are left in a dead car with no A/C and no tunes. Does not buy goodwill.
9. A top-down 360-degree view for parking. My wife's BMW has this and she values it immensely.
10. Side sunshades for the rear windows. Manual is fine, electric is ideal. Again, my wife's BMW has this and she loves it.
11. Some towing capacity with a standard/removable rear hitch, which I could also use for a bike rack.
12. The ability to REALLY raise the car for much better ground clearance, whether that's for rough roads or muddy/snowy conditions.
13. Absolutely mandatory, at least one powered USB port per occupant, with at least 10W (2A @ 5V) charging capacity.
14. Better range for the key fob sensors. My S often doesn't know I'm there unless I approach from the front or unless I'm very close.
15. A desktop app that allows you to route/plan as you would if you were in the car.
16. The ability to send an address or routing to the car's nav system.
17. The ability to set an "exit/entry" profile. Suspension, seat position, wheel position, and so on.�
Apr 20, 2015
Paul Carter Great list! I'll add my opinion on a few, but generally agree for almost all of it.
Hopefully 2nd and 3rd floor will get improved vents (and actual vents). Haven't had any issues with my front Model S vents.
Just the 1 dear? (Ab Fab reference). That's a no brainer and if they miss that, the market will react on it for sure. (read: the family target market won't buy it).
Hopefully the front will get something and then the seat backs will have those kangaroo pouches at least. Hoping for more too.
And I'll pass on RES too. I would be worried it would get outdated too quickly and very costly for maintenance. There are some aftermarket hangers that iPads can be placed over the seats. For longer trips I can't see this being a difficult to slide a device into it. And people are having these as personal multi-use devices.
That would be wonderful feature! I would imagine this is coming (think rear executive model S seats are going to have it first).
Isn't this a waste? I think another company is trying this and its just doesn't make sense to me. Again likely will get outdated too quickly and likely hard to upgrade. Perhaps carry a mobile hotspot would make more sense and easier to upgrade as the technology changes.
Great idea! Kinda like having a CD changer in the truck.
Doesn't this work today? The occupant just has to touch the screen to activate it when the driver leaves them. But great idea to have it automatic (with an option to have it automated or the current Model S way).
And +1 for the rest!
�
Sep 20, 2015
AnxietyRanger The point about in-car Wi-Fi is ability to use car's aerial. A metal cage is not the best place for signal - and an impossible one if Tesla ever decides to offer actual premium glazing.
As for RES, it is not really elegant to have to rely on after market hacks and dangling wires on a $140k car. At the very least a factory option for tablet mounts and power would be a reasonable minimum.�
Sep 20, 2015
Paul Carter Good point. If someone even does this aftermarket then that would surely be a benefit.
Power at the seats would be a very reasonable minimum for sure. I wonder what the Model X got.
As far as mounts, perhaps not. I think personal multi-use devices and wearable technology are only going to get more popular. These devices will be in the users hands or on their body most of the time.�
Sep 20, 2015
NigelM Nonsense. If that were true then cell phones wouldn't work inside cars.
We have a jetpack (WiFi hotspot) that has been used in our car on many trips, with my daughter doing her homework online while we're driving. The advantage of the mobile device is that it can be swapped between vehicles, or anywhere else, and is just a single device on our family plan.�
Sep 20, 2015
dsm363 I understand reporters taking the fully loaded P90D and painting the entire Model S line as a "$140,000 car" but you know better. That's like saying "oh you drive a 5 series BMW? That's a $120,000 car. Crazy!" Yes the car is still very expensive but I'd bet the average is closer to $90,000.�
Sep 20, 2015
AnOutsider As for power at the seats, I forget where, but I believe someone mentioned rear seat (2nd row only?) USB ports were back�
Sep 20, 2015
Paul Carter Thanks, that would be wonderful.�
Sep 20, 2015
dsm363 About time. Seems such a simple issue to fix but who knows.�
Sep 20, 2015
AnOutsider Right? to this day I could totally use them in my S�
Sep 30, 2015
Cyberax We measured that you lose about 7dB of signal inside a Tesla, even more if the cell tower is in front of the windshield. Reflective metallic layer definitely doesn't help.�
Không có nhận xét nào:
Đăng nhận xét